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Think Or Swim Hikes Silver Margin To Double That Of CME

Tyler Durden's picture


On Friday we reported that MF Global hiked silver margins to roughly $25k per contract (following the CME's own two consecutive margin hikes of 9% and 10%). On Sunday night, not letting any public hysteria go to waste, Think or Swim follows suit and hikes the /SI margin to $30,037.50 and $6,007.50 for the /YI. At this point there is an outright scramble to get anyone with margin out of precious metals positions, which of course in the long run will merely reinforce the holding hands.

h/t Biff Malibu


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Sun, 05/01/2011 - 23:29 | 1227638 slow_roast
slow_roast's picture

I used to respect TOS; now I wonder who's dick they're sucking.

Sun, 05/01/2011 - 23:36 | 1227708 whatsinaname
whatsinaname's picture

have been keenly waiting for a pullback. any suggestions on good reliable places to get physical silver ?

Sun, 05/01/2011 - 23:48 | 1227811 slow_roast
slow_roast's picture

How much do you want to spend?  If it's less than $20-30k use Gainesville, Monarch Preciousl Metals, Provident, or APMEX.  I prefer Gainesville as their prices are usually the best.


Tulving gets most of my money now.  Their premiums, policies, help, and everything are great.  If you want 500oz Ag or 20oz Au they're the go to guys.

Mon, 05/02/2011 - 06:22 | 1228592 jclarkv
jclarkv's picture

Ditto Tulving. They only sell what they have in their warehouse. No delivery times to be names later.

Mon, 05/02/2011 - 08:31 | 1228848 MarketTruth
MarketTruth's picture

+1 Tulving.

Mon, 05/02/2011 - 12:17 | 1230127 skeptik
skeptik's picture

Try nucleo exchange at bullion direct for the best prices

1% transaction fee plus shipping/handling

Sun, 05/01/2011 - 23:53 | 1227856 strannick
strannick's picture

Ditto Tulving

Mon, 05/02/2011 - 08:26 | 1228828 Firing Pin
Firing Pin's picture

Don't forget TMG (; usually among the lowest in premiums for small-med. orders. Tulving is good for big orders ($25K +)

Mon, 05/02/2011 - 08:00 | 1228766 Stonecold
Stonecold's picture

Farr Financial

Silver margins are currently at 1.5 times the exchange minimum. 
Day trade margins are not available in the silver market.

Sun, 05/01/2011 - 23:32 | 1227641 fuu
fuu's picture

Wow, the desperation is getting thick. 4 hikes in 1 week, 5 in the last 2. $50 must be vulnerable.

Mon, 05/02/2011 - 00:17 | 1228015 Ergo
Ergo's picture

Wow.  That's the Ameritrade platform.  Wipes out all small time speculators, who used that platform after getting out of their 401k's.  Talk about screwing over their clients.

I recall that during the depths of the fiscal crisis, Ameritrade went off line for some reason.  Guess it's not a good place to keep ones coin. 

Sun, 05/01/2011 - 23:29 | 1227645 lolmao500
lolmao500's picture

Those freaking bastards.

Sun, 05/01/2011 - 23:38 | 1227702 Gold 36000
Gold 36000's picture

you killed kenny!

Sun, 05/01/2011 - 23:41 | 1227729 tmosley
tmosley's picture

Oh my God!


Sun, 05/01/2011 - 23:33 | 1227648 The Axe
The Axe's picture

Never bring a knife to a gun fight...Tyler

Sun, 05/01/2011 - 23:57 | 1227866 strannick
strannick's picture

Unless that knife is sterling silver

Mon, 05/02/2011 - 00:06 | 1227932 Strike Back
Strike Back's picture

and the gun is an FRN

Mon, 05/02/2011 - 05:58 | 1228575 Hephasteus
Hephasteus's picture

It'll be a gun in only 6 more easy payments of 29.99 a month.

Sun, 05/01/2011 - 23:32 | 1227665 6 String
6 String's picture

The lower silver goes the faster the physical inventory merely gets depleted. It's a very bullish thing for longer term silver investors.

The paper game is just that, a game. Played long enough they simply lose. The faster they push silver down the faster COMEX gets fucked.

Sun, 05/01/2011 - 23:39 | 1227714 Gold 36000
Gold 36000's picture

chirp chirp says the lone cricket then silence.

Mon, 05/02/2011 - 02:23 | 1228386 silverstud
silverstud's picture

well even, if I speak for myself, there are now at least two crickets going out and buying physical today "chirp, chirp, chirp"

The Perth Mint was so busy I could not get through on the phone - had to buy through my online account. "chirp, chirp"

Ozzie Scott


Sun, 05/01/2011 - 23:47 | 1227799 disabledvet
disabledvet's picture

in theory.  in practice "you need cash to trade silver."  since there is oceans of silver out there that's the way it "shouldn't be" however.  obviously "it's impossible to raise margin requirements on gold."

Mon, 05/02/2011 - 00:47 | 1228137 FIAT_FixItAgainTony
FIAT_FixItAgainTony's picture

damn, the "oceans of silver" by me have evaporated into scratch and dents, worn to hell or nice and 20%+ over spot.

checked apmex earlier today and i saw zero ase's available from 2000 to 2009.

guess that's why they were looking to buy them +$3.

my coin guys have been selling gold, since silver is so scare around here!

consider yourself blessed you have local availability.

Sun, 05/01/2011 - 23:51 | 1227824 Doña K
Doña K's picture

It is a desparate move on their part. It will backfire as any sane person will realize that the margin is as high as geting the real thing in your hands. So yes, more traders will switch to buy and hold, which will create shortage of physical.

Additionally, industries that use the stuff will find it less volatile to hedge with physical. Hence no matter how you slice it, it will get hard to buy physical. They know it, but they are snookered.

Viva los federales /sarc

Sun, 05/01/2011 - 23:35 | 1227696 Gold 36000
Gold 36000's picture

wow some people is going to take it up the kazoo there sure were a lot of dumb posts recently from people just getting into the market if any of those guys were real and even dumber posts from people saying they are going to buy more silver at 42 and 45 I do not know what to think about that.  Did you guys really encourage the dumb fuckers who just now noticed silver to buy in the high 40's?  Whenever I see people saying silver 250 and even banner ads for silver 250 on zero hedge then something is going to happen and it probably is not something good.

Sun, 05/01/2011 - 23:44 | 1227775 tmosley
tmosley's picture

Why not?  I'm still buying.

And I don't know how many times this needs to be said--Zerohedge is NOT THE FUCKING STREET.  Stop pretending like it is, and using the sentiment here as a contrarian indicator.  If you could do that, then silver never would have gotten past $20.

Use ZH as a contrarian indicator at your own peril.  The peril is the same as taking a gun that you have been told by several people is loaded, turning off the safety, putting it to your head, and pulling the trigger.  Maybe you will be lucky, but probably not.

Also, the banner ads on ZH are contextual, and are controlled not only by the content of the page, but by your own cookies.  If Cramer is mentioned in a thread, ads for "Trading with Cramer" or whatever will pop up, even if they are calling his a dumbshit cockmaster.

Sun, 05/01/2011 - 23:48 | 1227813 disabledvet
disabledvet's picture

never done this before here but: ++

Mon, 05/02/2011 - 00:47 | 1228145 FIAT_FixItAgainTony
FIAT_FixItAgainTony's picture

glad i use ad blocker +, i never see any third-party ads on any sites!

Sun, 05/01/2011 - 23:53 | 1227857 Doña K
Doña K's picture

@Gold 3600.

Only a temporary setback, especially when we are talking physical. 

Sun, 05/01/2011 - 23:56 | 1227881 strannick
strannick's picture

I dont know which is harder to believe, that $250 silver is coming, or that 73 USDX is still here.

Mon, 05/02/2011 - 00:48 | 1228147 FIAT_FixItAgainTony
FIAT_FixItAgainTony's picture

LOL.  agreed.

Mon, 05/02/2011 - 00:40 | 1228115 fonestar
fonestar's picture

Yeah I am one of those "dumb fuckers" who was buying at $16/oz, buying at $30/oz and buying at $45/oz too.  Do you know when I am going to stop buying?  When all four conditions are met:


1)  The Federal Reserve is no longer in charge of monetary policy.

2)  The US Treasury market has been totally and completely anhilated.

3)  Any and all attempts to manipulate PM's markets has ceased.

4)  The stock market is no longer used to measure the real world economy.


So what's your point dipshit??

Mon, 05/02/2011 - 01:03 | 1228192 FIAT_FixItAgainTony
FIAT_FixItAgainTony's picture

absol-f-n-lutely.  it's the value and number of ounces at the end of the day.  the alleged frn price is pretty much irrelevant, other than to know if you have enough of them to make a purchase.

i bought at $11, $13, $15, $16, $17, $18, $19, $21, $22, $24, $26, $27, $28, $30, $32, $33, $34, $35, $36, $42 and $46 acording to my logs.

right now i see a dip to buy, but:

a) my local market is pretty much out of silver.

b) no frn's in wallet because my last purchase was gold actually!

i will continue to buy as i can/need to.

paper ponzi ends someday and it will one hard crash!

remember, corporatists (fascists) run this formerly free country!

i agree a minimum of 4 things must end just like fonestar said.

Mon, 05/02/2011 - 02:28 | 1228393 silverstud
silverstud's picture

even "small" auction houses like South Africa's Bid or Buy are now experiencing growing premiums on the spot. Hell, a year ago I was buying hundreds of South African silver crowns with half an ounce of silver for seventy rand... now I can't get them for under two hundred rand.. when they actually come up for auction!

That's reality... not this crap called naked shorts.

Ozzie Scott


Mon, 05/02/2011 - 08:08 | 1228782 Hephasteus
Hephasteus's picture

I told you it's coming from everywhere. It's in every country in every place.

Who are they figting. Everyone.

Mon, 05/02/2011 - 01:06 | 1228211 no2foreclosures
no2foreclosures's picture

And a fifth condition: When you get 3 people calling and telling you on the same day to buy silver.

Mon, 05/02/2011 - 01:07 | 1228212 Teamtc321
Teamtc321's picture

The first present I bought my son in 1986 when he was born was physical silver. So some people are looking at years there dipshit, not tonight or next week.

Guess Im a dumb fuck to, oh well. I can sleep tonight I'm sure.


Mon, 05/02/2011 - 01:24 | 1228258 RafterManFMJ
RafterManFMJ's picture

Hell, I like you. You can come over to my house and fuck my sister.

Mon, 05/02/2011 - 07:10 | 1228650 spelledwrong
spelledwrong's picture

You climb obstacles like old people fuck.

Mon, 05/02/2011 - 07:49 | 1228733 Papasmurf
Papasmurf's picture

I was buying gold at $362. Where were you?

Mon, 05/02/2011 - 07:50 | 1228737 Mec-sick-o
Mec-sick-o's picture

At least by ratios, Silver is still cheap vs Gold and other metals.

Sun, 05/01/2011 - 23:35 | 1227700 monopoly
monopoly's picture

They are running scared, that is for sure. When this reverses, look out. Going to be interesting.

Sun, 05/01/2011 - 23:36 | 1227703 TaxSlave
TaxSlave's picture

Drop, drop!  Waiting to BTFD.  Junk, please. (As in quarters and dollars.)

Sun, 05/01/2011 - 23:36 | 1227705 natty light
natty light's picture


Sun, 05/01/2011 - 23:37 | 1227717 Captain Benny
Captain Benny's picture

Oh man, we're setting the stage for the mother of all squeezes.   Lets just keep stepping it up toward a cash-only market and get it done with.

Mon, 05/02/2011 - 00:38 | 1228114 cossack55
cossack55's picture

Roger that. Take it to 100%, fuck a weak hand.

Sun, 05/01/2011 - 23:37 | 1227724 Gold 36000
Gold 36000's picture

Die you silver longs die!

Sun, 05/01/2011 - 23:45 | 1227789 penisouraus erecti
penisouraus erecti's picture


Mon, 05/02/2011 - 00:39 | 1228118 Ahmeexnal
Ahmeexnal's picture

Hilarious Clinton.

Mon, 05/02/2011 - 01:26 | 1228263 Rynak
Rynak's picture

You know, when you make posts that can alternatively be viewed as sarkasm, i actually like them for a good laugh :) NOT junked.

Mon, 05/02/2011 - 01:52 | 1228323 topcallingtroll
topcallingtroll's picture


He claims to be on the payroll of jpm!

Mon, 05/02/2011 - 02:33 | 1228398 silverstud
silverstud's picture

The only thing that can stop the silver longs now is the day JP Morgan defaults.. and then it will be the Comex that dies...

Ozzie Scott

Sun, 05/01/2011 - 23:41 | 1227730 holdbuysell
holdbuysell's picture

From my perspective, none of this changes the thesis for owning precious metals.

Sun, 05/01/2011 - 23:42 | 1227739 Long-John-Silver
Long-John-Silver's picture

Apmex has just 35 2010 Silver Eagles remaining. They have older dates available at higher premium rates. Those will start to sell off soon. I'm surprised Apmex is still up and accepting orders.

Sun, 05/01/2011 - 23:58 | 1227879 BT310
BT310's picture

I've never had a problem buying physical. I don't get the hype about apmex.

Gainesville has been loaded.


Mon, 05/02/2011 - 00:10 | 1227959 Long-John-Silver
Long-John-Silver's picture

Apmex is a good indicator of sales of Silver. Getting actual inventory numbers is easy. It gives you an idea of where this dip is heading. People are buying this dip with a vengeance. This raid is leading to the Mother of all short squeezes.

Mon, 05/02/2011 - 01:47 | 1228317 topcallingtroll
topcallingtroll's picture

And you base that on one coin dealer selling a couple hundred eagles tonight?

Mon, 05/02/2011 - 02:02 | 1228347 Temporalist
Temporalist's picture

I base it on knowing more people buying physical, with real life FRNs, a whole lot of 'em...and the better the price now the happier I am for them.

Mon, 05/02/2011 - 08:55 | 1228922 tmosley
tmosley's picture

It's not just Eagles.  Last night 30 minutes after the dip in silver started, APMEX had more than 1000 oz of scratch and dent.  Now they have 203.  They had more than 2000 5 oz bars from the SUnshine mint--now 1300.  They had 1000 new 100oz Johnson Matthey silver bars, now 775.

And this is on a SUNDAY.  If this dip lasts, imagine what will happen over the coming week during normal business hours.

Sun, 05/01/2011 - 23:43 | 1227751 Ahmeexnal
Ahmeexnal's picture

This is a vulgar display of impotence by the banking establishment.

It is a clear indication that the end of the ponzi experiment is about to unravel...

This will end in tears for those holding nothing more than paper and credit.

Time to buy more PMs if you can still find some this coming week!!



Mon, 05/02/2011 - 00:10 | 1227964 HoofHearted
HoofHearted's picture

So here's the question of a real dumb ass like me...if they raise margins based on silver going up in price, what will happen now that silver has lost a couple of bucks per ounce?

Anyone else hear those crickets???

Sun, 05/01/2011 - 23:45 | 1227773 Beamerball
Beamerball's picture

Wow on Think of Swim Silver margin requirements! has nailed this short silver trade

Sun, 05/01/2011 - 23:43 | 1227774 Re-Discovery
Re-Discovery's picture

Silver is meeting resistance down here, but I think this will be a prolonged attack (as prolonged as they can make it.)

Sun, 05/01/2011 - 23:48 | 1227803 Long-John-Silver
Long-John-Silver's picture

There is a coordinated media attack on Silver as well. They have been planning this for days. Battle of the Bulge Bitchez!

Sun, 05/01/2011 - 23:55 | 1227874 Gordon Freeman
Gordon Freeman's picture

No shit--Marketwatch had blaring headlines all weekend, as did SA

Mon, 05/02/2011 - 00:06 | 1227924 strannick
strannick's picture

Those bitchez can battle the silver bulging in my pants' pocket.

Mon, 05/02/2011 - 07:53 | 1228745 Mec-sick-o
Mec-sick-o's picture


Mon, 05/02/2011 - 02:11 | 1228364 Temporalist
Temporalist's picture

Agreed and the immediate headlines "Silver biggest drop since 2008" are already up in neon.


Sun, 05/01/2011 - 23:48 | 1227791 AldoHux_IV
AldoHux_IV's picture

I used to respect TOS too-- I'm on their platform. Fuck 'em they're no better than the rest of the assholes out there.

Sun, 05/01/2011 - 23:46 | 1227792 AmazingLarry
AmazingLarry's picture

My god, I haven't been fucked like that since grade school.

Mon, 05/02/2011 - 00:36 | 1228098 Bubbles...bubbl...
Bubbles...bubbles everywhere's picture

Did you go to a catholic school?

Mon, 05/02/2011 - 01:33 | 1228280 RafterManFMJ
RafterManFMJ's picture

Worse, just walked past one on the way home.

Sun, 05/01/2011 - 23:46 | 1227794 Xibalba
Xibalba's picture

bankers helping bankers..

Sun, 05/01/2011 - 23:51 | 1227836 Long-John-Silver
Long-John-Silver's picture

Apmex 2010 Silver Eagle now down to 14.... Going....Going..

Mon, 05/02/2011 - 00:10 | 1227950 HoofHearted
HoofHearted's picture

I'll buy 10,000 at 14 apiece if you're selling (I know, I know, it's the number on APMEX but I can always hope.)

Mon, 05/02/2011 - 00:35 | 1228092 Long-John-Silver
Long-John-Silver's picture

They be all gone mates! Apmex has run out of 2010 Silver Eagles.

Mon, 05/02/2011 - 02:02 | 1228353 Keri at Bankste...
Keri at Bankster Report's picture

Of the bigger stuff, APMEX had the first set at 19:53 and the ones in () at 00:51:

one 2010 Monster Box (gone, now listing 2 2009 boxes)

182 ASE 2011 tubes (down to 149)

single ASE  are sold out, but they are taking preorders for 2011 set to ship 05/13

14 $1000 face bags (down to 13)

20 $500 face bags (down to 16)

98 APMEX 100-oz bars (down to 83)

1 Englehard 100-oz bar (sold out)

850 new JM 100-oz bars (784, sold out of old JM's)

19 old JM's (sold out)

17 Heraeus 100-oz bars (down to 5)

2 Pan-Am 100-oz bars (sold out? I can't find them now)

These are big-ticket items, especially the $1000 face bags ($31,000+) and monster boxes ($25,000+), as well as the $4,500/ea 100-oz bars.


Sun, 05/01/2011 - 23:54 | 1227855 Gordon Freeman
Gordon Freeman's picture

Those fucks won't take my trades at the new margin, even though I have plenty in the acct, and have never had a margin call.  I just don't feel like arguing with them tonight.  IB is manning up, and not pulling any of this bullshit (yet...), so they get the biz.

Fuck TOS

Sun, 05/01/2011 - 23:58 | 1227876 Long-John-Silver
Long-John-Silver's picture

The Forrest of paper is burning out of control.

Mon, 05/02/2011 - 01:09 | 1228210 FIAT_FixItAgainTony
FIAT_FixItAgainTony's picture

it sure is on fire and it smells bad.  really bad.  what IS in that ink they use?  or is that the "safety features" that smell when burning?

Sun, 05/01/2011 - 23:57 | 1227861 Forgiven
Forgiven's picture

The coordinated assault only solidifies my view that they are on the verge of complete capitulation.  BTFD!  I think George Patton would be buying silver right now.  I can just hear him.  "Blythe, you silly bitch.  I read your damn book.  With every last ragged piece of green toilet paper they print.  Buy you sons of bitchez, BUY!"

Mon, 05/02/2011 - 00:03 | 1227901 Long-John-Silver
Long-John-Silver's picture

This is their Battle of the Bulge moment. Weak hands will fall as the trolls and talking heads lead them down the path to capitulation. Huge numbers of Americans were taken prisoner during that last, desperate push. It failed and hastened the end on the war.

Mon, 05/02/2011 - 00:03 | 1227896 OutLookingIn
OutLookingIn's picture

The fundos have not changed. The manipulators are desperate.

The bullion banks et.el. have given silver a "tell." All pretense is now off. Outright market manipulation, deceptions, propaganda, cover ups, distractions, interventions, and misdirection will be the outright modus operandi from here on in.

Nice to have things out in the open now.

Trying to get some silver maples without paying huge premiums. Royal Canadian mint is now quoting three months wait time! Shortage?

No not much! How much does the COMEX have? Plenty of paper shorts!  

Mon, 05/02/2011 - 00:02 | 1227906 pitz
pitz's picture

About friggin time, sick and tired of douchebags speculating on the metal, and not supporting the businesses and the equity that actually brings the motherfucking stuff out of the ground.

Mon, 05/02/2011 - 01:13 | 1228207 anvILL
anvILL's picture

Isn't speculating(buying) on the metals one of the best ways to support their business? Or, am I missing something? (Btw, I did not junk you)

Mon, 05/02/2011 - 01:38 | 1228298 Fred Hayek
Fred Hayek's picture

And according to Along the Watchtower, the biggest problem for the mines is that the stock analysts absolutely refuse to update their info to reflect that changes in the price that the PM's are now selling for.  So, you've got mining companies with their profitability being rated on prices that are months old and many percent lower than present numbers.

Mon, 05/02/2011 - 00:05 | 1227909 Bansters-in-my-...
Bansters-in-my- feces's picture

Fuck you's all PPT......

You's have Bankster cum dripping off your chins.

You Sach's of fucking shit.

Love the smell of Banksta fear.

Mon, 05/02/2011 - 00:10 | 1227963 Kina
Kina's picture

Don't mix up the paper and physical markets. What premiums are JPM paying to make others not take delivery....thats closer to the genuine current price.


Silver criminals are in desperation mode and is why we are gettting all these obvious over the top games from all quarters. Media, regulators, banks doing all they can to put down silver. Why are they so keen, so obsessed with silver price?


Because Masters cnut is about to be served up on a plate with pickles and ketchup.

Mon, 05/02/2011 - 01:19 | 1228243 FIAT_FixItAgainTony
FIAT_FixItAgainTony's picture

agreed kina.  ol' nadler at kitco called a top around the $30 mark.  where's he been the last $16 to $18 of silver price travel?  dumbfounded and still calling tops all the way up.

  good ol' eBay is a great way to measure what real people are paying for physical silver.

i feel the market has diverged away from the alleged paper ponzi spot price.

Mon, 05/02/2011 - 00:11 | 1227971 Rynak
Rynak's picture

It may not be "free silver", but they're trying really hard to get you close to it :)

Mon, 05/02/2011 - 00:20 | 1228016 Sopra Tutt1
Sopra Tutt1's picture

the true story is that Osama had a huge amount of PMs that now will hit the market. Osama was a gold bug all along, this is why they didn't find him.

Mon, 05/02/2011 - 00:32 | 1228072 fonestar
fonestar's picture

Go ahead and keep on hiking the margins you cunts!  I may have small hands but they are strong hands!  One-million small, strong hands are going to crush ten giant wimpy hands!

Keep on buying PHYSICAL and keep your powder dry!!!

Mon, 05/02/2011 - 01:20 | 1228247 FIAT_FixItAgainTony
FIAT_FixItAgainTony's picture

AMEN to that!

Mon, 05/02/2011 - 00:34 | 1228084 Long-John-Silver
Long-John-Silver's picture

Apmex has run out of 2010 Silver Eagles. Physical Silver Short Squeeze is on Bitchez! All this coordinated attack did was remove vast amounts of Silver from the market. Now it's even worse for them.

Mon, 05/02/2011 - 01:26 | 1228268 FIAT_FixItAgainTony
FIAT_FixItAgainTony's picture

yep, way worse than sunday afternoon when i checked and thought it was bad.

the mint isn't going to re-pop the older years, so until some suckers sell their ase's back to apmex there won't be any.

obviously we need to keep the silver in strong hands and outta bankster hands.

Mon, 05/02/2011 - 01:08 | 1228204 fellatio is not...
fellatio is not fattening's picture

The drop in silver and the higher mgn requirements are good news for those who 1. own silver free and clear 2. have enough equity to not worry about a margin call and 3. those who weren't long any futures contracts at the close Friday.  Each SI contract moves $5,000 per $1 move, thus when silver was down $4.50 earlier anyone holding a contract was down ~$23,000, so the "mo-mo" guys who barely had enough equity are now gone, the guys playing for $1-$2 are gone, the metals and futures are now in stronger less emotional hands, that can only be good going forward.  Also, if it drops to the $35-$38 range gives those still standing an excellent place to buy back in with the previously mentioned guys out. 

Mon, 05/02/2011 - 01:43 | 1228302 RafterManFMJ
RafterManFMJ's picture

Oh please o please...if it goes to 35 I go all in....

...and if it goes to 25, I will max out every credit card I have, put the dog on eBay, sell blood, search the couch cushions and mow lawns again for 7 bucks per.

Mon, 05/02/2011 - 02:36 | 1228404 Temporalist
Temporalist's picture

Why not offer your clients the option to pay you in silver?

Mon, 05/02/2011 - 02:37 | 1228413 silverstud
silverstud's picture

LOL Rafters.. I might even sell my Meccano and building blocks :)

Ozzie Scott

Mon, 05/02/2011 - 04:01 | 1228504 fellatio is not...
fellatio is not fattening's picture

You seem a bit naive, the May contract went from ~$24 to $50, a 50% retracement, which is very normal puts silver @ $37, I've been doing this for a very long time and for you to say that you would go "all in" at $35 as if it's isn't a possibility just confirms your naivety, not the way to make money

Mon, 05/02/2011 - 01:08 | 1228205 SumSUN
SumSUN's picture

I wouldn't wipe my ass with a U.S. dollar.  Wow, I remember when Obama was running for president i actually gained some faith in the U.S.  Then, a couple weeks later, i saw "The Obama Deception" and i thought, yeah, this guy is just another puppet.

What the Fuck happened to the U.S. my freaking god.  I just cannot quantify how freaking lost that country has become.  I grew up in Sask. canada, lived in Pensacola for 3 years during high school, moved back to Canada.  I just don't know what to say, these are crazy times.

Mon, 05/02/2011 - 02:42 | 1228415 silverstud
silverstud's picture

Actually tried that last week.

Was not a good move.. the dollar note is the wrong shape and size!

But the satisfaction in seeing the evil eye covered in shit made up for the clean up after.

Ozzie Scott


Mon, 05/02/2011 - 07:59 | 1228768 Mec-sick-o
Mec-sick-o's picture

Won't take any of your FRN's or shake your left hand either.

Mon, 05/02/2011 - 01:26 | 1228264 longorshort
longorshort's picture

ROFL all these Silver bulls get their asses handed to them for speculating, and they are like the knight in Montey Python.  It's only a flesh wound.  You got no bloody legs!

Mon, 05/02/2011 - 01:35 | 1228277 topcallingtroll
topcallingtroll's picture

Ok that was funny.

Who is going to rush out to buy silver tomorrow in the mid 40's?

Tell us your purchases in real time. Be big boys!

Mon, 05/02/2011 - 10:46 | 1229483 The Barber Us Relic
The Barber Us Relic's picture

Just bought 4 ounces of Englehard on ebay for $47.00 with shipping :-D


I'm happy with it!

Mon, 05/02/2011 - 01:42 | 1228300 Teamtc321
Teamtc321's picture

Hmmm, look's like my leg's are just fine. That stack of put's on the 34 and 35 mark in slv is bleeding like a mother fucker I would say though.

Would'nt you?

Mon, 05/02/2011 - 01:28 | 1228271 longorshort
longorshort's picture

Who knew ameriturd was in bed with JPM and Goldman double margins on 5000oz contracts?  Better start digging a hole to hide it all in your backyard LOL  The Brinks truck is coming bitches.

Mon, 05/02/2011 - 01:35 | 1228289 London Dude Trader
London Dude Trader's picture

As more and more frequently on ZH, sadly most of these comments are just plain stupid, and clearly posted by morons.

Tonight's down move in SI would have wiped >$25K per contract off any long SI position, which goes to show that even MF's newly raised margin would not have been enough to prevent many accounts from blowing up. And guess who's liable for those losses once the imbeciles leveraged to the hilt with long SI positions had their accounts' equity plunge to negative values... If you're trying to blame the brokers or the CME for raising margins in the face of this backbreaking volatility you clearly don't understand the first thing about derivatives and leverage...

Mon, 05/02/2011 - 01:50 | 1228324 longorshort
longorshort's picture

Maybee Comex can hire Max Keiser to to drive the contract delivery to your door and you might begin to realize a bubble is taking place. Heck that 25k flash was only a flesh wound.  Yah maybee you can ride this hire.  But unless you have enough free Bernaks to actually control the silver market  who knows where the top is other than Goldman?  While your at it bring me a shrubery please.  We would like one very much. 

Mon, 05/02/2011 - 04:57 | 1228541 Urban Redneck
Urban Redneck's picture

The issue might not be the rise or fall in the nominal value of paper silver.  The paper market is maintained by keeping a large stock of physical on the market maker side of the London vaults.  If the price is driven down to disincents taking delivery (physical or Comex both have higher carrying costs than paper), keeping the silver on the correct side of the vault in order to maintain control of the paper market.

Mon, 05/02/2011 - 06:20 | 1228587 Hephasteus
Hephasteus's picture

Look. They fill the vault any time they want. All they gotta do is raise the price. You CANNOT put gold into backwardation without massive price manipulation. There's just too much of it above ground. All you gotta do is raise the price in fiat money.

This has nothing to do with levarage or speculators or any of that crap. It's quite simple. Japan is going to rip the stock market to shreds. You are going to have a bunch of people with federal reserve notes trying to protect themselves from counterfeiting government thieves.

They will crash and crash and crash the silver market in a relentless campaign to empty it's shelves. Then when the stock markets go crashing to all shit. People will have NO PLACE TO GO. They will be pinned against the wall taking loss and damage. Gold will go apeshit. Silver will go apeshit also but with very little of it moving.

It's a silver crash pretending not to be an impending gold bubble. Isn't weird how gold just floated right on up right before this happened.

Keep your eyes peeled and if long convulted lies and stealing mechanics doesn't work. It'll get rough.

Mon, 05/02/2011 - 01:56 | 1228331 topcallingtroll
topcallingtroll's picture


If the brokers cant get the stupid spec longs to pony up then the brokers are liable for the contract.

They have just been trying to protect themselves from volatility.

Mon, 05/02/2011 - 03:44 | 1228469 anvILL
anvILL's picture

Also agree.
Just seen lots of specs being blown up right after the quake causing massive losses to brokers here in Japan.
But, I also strongly believe that CME/CFTC should be implementing Frank-Dodd position limits if they are going to hike margins. Afterall, these kind of lack of regulation is whats fueling the current speculation and its implementation is quite overdue.
Also, if they have the agility to raise margins twice a week, they should have raised more often in a less concentrated manner. All this margin hike all at once seems silly and outright disorderly.

Mon, 05/02/2011 - 01:37 | 1228291 Bastiat
Bastiat's picture

Physical demand will end this paper shadow show.  Say g'nite Blythe.

Mon, 05/02/2011 - 09:07 | 1228978 yabyum
yabyum's picture

This fight will be won in the coin shops and PHYZZ dealers. Not in the paper pits.

Mon, 05/02/2011 - 01:53 | 1228327 glenlloyd
glenlloyd's picture

I don't anticipate this will stay down for long, then again who knows. I do know that I will take the opportunity to buy some if I can something local to buy.

Mon, 05/02/2011 - 01:58 | 1228341 acrabbe
acrabbe's picture

Things are starting to get interesting. for those of you still buying physical, keep on keeping on. For others interested in benefitting from the volatile trading of the white metal...

Mon, 05/02/2011 - 02:05 | 1228354 longorshort
longorshort's picture

Maybee Martha Stuart can host an episode how to regift all that silver from the SI contract delivery.   Maybee some hot commodity stock tips too.

Mon, 05/02/2011 - 02:19 | 1228377 bank buster
bank buster's picture

Thinkorswim bitchez!

Mon, 05/02/2011 - 02:49 | 1228420 ivars
ivars's picture

SIlver behaving as my charts ( and many people ) predicted. How about a flash crash from 48 to 42,3 this ? Not very stable growth visible. Now its about 44, 85, back to where it was before Bernankes USD devaluation speech. For it to crash to 30 in 1 month it only need to go lower 0,6 USD/day. No more crashed needed.

I guess killing of OBL somehow has improved USD position, temporarily.

Mon, 05/02/2011 - 03:08 | 1228442 Broomer
Broomer's picture

I can't wait to check how this dip will impact the COMEX inventories.

Mon, 05/02/2011 - 07:01 | 1228630 equity_momo
equity_momo's picture

I sense gold is due for a pop through 1600 this week. The take down efforts in gold this morning were pitiful.  

Mon, 05/02/2011 - 07:32 | 1228686 Gold 36000
Gold 36000's picture

We regret to inform you that the second American Revolution has been canceled due to lack of interest and bad weather.  Next target for silver is 31.55 where it previously tested support and consolidated prior to the super spike.  Gold will maintain in a trading range between 1400 and 1550.  That is all.  Good night.

Mon, 05/02/2011 - 07:40 | 1228712 Dangertime
Dangertime's picture

Things that make you go hmmmmm

2004-(5) - Silver goes from $4.50 to $8.25 in 9 months for an 83% gain.  Silver then crashes almost 30% to $5.50 in six weeks.

2005-(6) - Silver goes from $6.50 to $15 in 9 months for a 130% gain.  Silver then collapses 35% to $9.50 over a brutal eight weeks.

2007-(8) - Silver goes from $11.50 to $21 in 7 months for an 83% gain.  Silver then gets crushed by 25% to $16 over six weeks.

2010-(11) - Silver goes from $18 to $49 in 8 months for a 172% gain.  Silver then crashes x% for a loss of $yy over six weeks.

I wonder how the pattern will complete this time.

Mon, 05/02/2011 - 09:17 | 1229024 Math Man
Math Man's picture

Back below $20 this summer.

It only costs 5 bucks to dig it out of the ground.

Mon, 05/02/2011 - 09:45 | 1229158 streetman
streetman's picture

Maybe, but it will have virtually nothing to do with production costs one way or the other.  You seriously need to stop repeating this mantra as though it's the sole determinant of the price of silver.  Instead, maybe focus on how capacity (and hedging) influences supply patterns, and the inelasticity of demand regardless of price.  Or just take an Econ 101 course.  If you don't believe me (I am sure of this), as an example, do you really think a Bordeaux first growth costs 8 times as much to produce as it did 12 years ago?  Or are there just a lot more buyers now with zero increase in supply?

Mon, 05/02/2011 - 11:15 | 1229660 narapoiddyslexia
narapoiddyslexia's picture

All good points. Its actually comforting when the economc ignorati spout the $5 mantra. May there always be someone who will sell me silver!

One more time - [1] the supply/demand relationship has nothing to do with cost of production, unless production is completely elastic.

[2] the law of demand is based on opportunity cost, so, the higher a price of a good goes, the higher the opportuniy cost and so buyers peel off into other options. What is the opportunity cost for silver, morans? Fiat, right. Hahahahah..... so the "speculators" among us see an opportunity cost in that there are other investments, and those of us who see the end of fiat HAVE NO OPPORTUNITY COST. Get it? Thus, demand does not respond to price. It stays constant, ie, I buy it whenever I can, at whatever the price is when I have some fiat to spend on it.

Go read a high school text on economics. Morans.

Mon, 05/02/2011 - 11:19 | 1229696 FreeNewEnergy
FreeNewEnergy's picture

Seriously, son, if silver hits $20 this summer I will send you all of mine, for nothing.

OTOH, how about a bet? $100 FRNs say the spot price of silver is closer to $70 than $20 on August 11, 2011, which is pretty much the middle of summer.

Are you in or just plain chicken?

Answer me, or be my bitch.

Mon, 05/02/2011 - 07:48 | 1228742 Gordon Freeman
Gordon Freeman's picture

TThe vicious comments here about long silver holders are really pathetic, and have a strong whiff of panic.  Do you really doubt that the trend remains up?

Incidentally, SI is now trading higher than the lows set three trading sessions ago...

You dragged OBL corpse out of the cooler--waddya got for an encore?

Mon, 05/02/2011 - 08:01 | 1228776 Hephasteus
Hephasteus's picture

Call me when they start dropping houses on witches and killing wicked witches from west with buckets of water. Sociopaths and psycopaths won't drink the stuff or take a shower and are tax exempt from emotional entanglemets in order to build tax exempt governmental power structures.

Until then it's just a circle jerk that begins and ends the same way.

I don't own gold and silver to win I own it to keep you from winning.

Now let's get on with the spackling the planet with bullshit to hide the walls and floors and ceilings.

Mon, 05/02/2011 - 09:04 | 1228977 DrStrangelove
DrStrangelove's picture

charts above

Around 6:15 Sunday, silver crashed on the Globex, the biggest intra day move since December 21, 2008 and reminiscent of a Globex crash I recall from September 2008. Silver lost over 10% down to $42.21 in under 50 minutes. Let's go over the possible reasoning behind the price movement.

  • The CME increased margins for a second time $14,513 per contract from $12,825 and maintenance deposits rose to $10,750 from $9,500, both up over 13%. The increase went into effect after Friday's close and was announced Thursday. The CME is trying to flush speculators out of the market, this has a major effect.
  • Often at key sell points orders may get backed up. This could have some effect going forward more than the 50 minute selling mania, but it is possible that had some effect.
  • Bin Laden dies, the US dollar rallies (less than 1%), not a credible explanation.
  • Large scale technical sell off in Asian markets not very likely considering markets in China, Hong Kong, Singapore, Vietnam, Malaysia, Taiwan, and Thailand were closed and South Korea and Japan likely did not create a mass sell off (also Philippine and Indonesian markets were relatively tame adding modest gains to stocks). This move seems more concentrated.
  • China tightening monetary policy and the Fed's lack of policy shift, not likely to effect the price so greatly in such a short amount of time.

Just the reasons that came to mind first.

Not that it is vital importance, but it really does remind me of what initially looked like a data feed error. On September 14th, 2008 the Globex silver market crashed at essentially the exact same time of day as the current occurrence of free fall (it was also a Sunday). Silver actually ended that Monday up 4 cents after a 50% haircut, but was towards the end of a strong dying bear market for silver.


The last time we saw this was on the 21rst of December, similar crash, but this was quicker. Again despite the sharp Globex dip and instantaneous 100% retracement, silver closed up 36 cents that Monday. The difference being this recent crash in price did not retrace 100% following the 10% correction within 60 minutes or less. In the long run this will be a mere short term price aberration...

Mon, 05/02/2011 - 09:41 | 1229139 Mr. E
Mr. E's picture

After having been part of the margin setting committe on a futures exchange, I am frankly surprised the margins aren't being set higher.  The raw numbers of price movement over the last few days would imply a larger margin.  

The integrity of the Clearinghouse is paramount.  They don't give a damn about anything else, and that dude who lost $10m in a few weeks back in December doesn't give them lots of confidence in the swarm of new metals traders to manage the risk of a leveraged futures position.  Silver could dive $10 in a day - the range today is $6.  The margins are usually set to the higest of a few different calculations involving volatility and 99% confidence intervals.  

So this 'huge' margin isn't really that big, considering the value of todays range is larger than the margin.  

Mon, 05/02/2011 - 09:56 | 1229223 waldocktrades
waldocktrades's picture

Silver may be the only commodity market approaching a bubble move. If so, we could see $70 silver in the next few months. I wrote about commodity market bubbles here:


And for the record, our silver margins are still at par with the CME.


Mon, 05/02/2011 - 10:55 | 1229563 The Barber Us Relic
The Barber Us Relic's picture

Where have all the silver bulls/dollar bears gone? Am I the only one left who BTFD on this? haha... I've got a plan and I'm sticking to it.... been accumulating physical since $17/oz.... so keep on pluggin...

Mon, 05/02/2011 - 11:00 | 1229583 Clint Liquor
Clint Liquor's picture

I bought my first box of Silver Eagles in 1992. It was, and is, my retirement plan. So far, so good.

Last week, a dealer I had bought from, called to ask if I would sell. He offered $3 over spot. The most I paid for Eagles was $1.85 over spot.

I have had hundreds of calls, over the years, trying to get me to buy. First time ever for a sell call. Is that what happens in bubble?

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