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Third World America?
Arianna
Huffington was interviewed on Tech Ticker on Wednesday discussing America's
shrinking middle class:
In a Wall
Street Journal op-ed today, former “Car Czar” Steve Rattner, a
multi-millionaire from decades as an investment banker, says Wall Street
is ignorant to the dangers of America’s growing wealth disparity.Rattner
rattles off some shocking stats in the piece:
- -- “Incomes
of the average American worker (after adjustment for inflation) was
lower in 2008 (let alone 2009) than it was in 1999.”- --
"30,000 Americans command a full 6% of income in this country (a higher
percentage than at even the end of the Roaring '20s)"Tech
Ticker discussed the growing income divide with Arianna Huffington,
co-founder and editor in chief of The Huffington Post.
“We
are in danger of becoming an America with a rich and the poor,"
Huffington tells Aaron in this clip, taped at Tuesday’s CM Summit in New York City. "And at the
heart of America has always been a middle class,” the erosion of which
threatens to upset our democracy, she says.
At the heart of the problem is high unemployment. The broadest
measure of unemployment (U6) stands at 16.6% and a record 46% of
America's unemployed have been out of work 6 months or longer.
Because
of that “the American dream has been reduced to luck… and the odds
right now are against people,” notes Huffington, author
of several books, including the forthcoming "Third World America".
But we are not hopeless or helpless, she
says: “There’s a lot we can do both at the government level and at the
individual level.”
In an update on the old "think global, act
local" campaign of the greens, Huffington promotes getting involved in
local causes, be it working in a food kitchen, unemployed white collar
workers volunteering their skills, or trying to start a business.
But
income inequality isn't just an American problem, it's pretty much a
global problem. Nowhere is poverty growing more rapidly than among
elderly population, and the problem is getting worse. Consider this:
- Fewer
than half of Canadians approaching retirement age have an income
strategy in place, and two thirds haven’t considered the possibility
that they could outlive their savings, according
to a report by the BMO Retirement Institute. - In the UK,
pension savers could be facing a bleak retirement, that’s
the message from pension specialist Partnership. According to
Partnership, nine in every 10 pension savers retiring in the last five
years had less than £50,000 and eight in 10 had less than £30,000 saved
up.
As you listen to the interview below, you get a sense that
we're heading down the wrong path. When foreclosure lawyers are busier
than manufacturers, it's the sign of a sick economy. And while
fundamentals are improving, serious long-term structural issues remain.
Pension poverty is one of the issues that far too many will struggle
with. Wonder if it will be discussed at the G-20 (don't hold your
breath).
»
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+10
That steep yield curve is squeezing average Joe like a turnip. He hasn't been allowed to save the product of his labor for years. Thank you big banks.
Unfortunately, many idiots who commented here do not understand the difference between cyclical and secular trends. The pension crisis is deflationary, and will cap long-term bond yields. But in the short-term, fundamentals in the US will improve. All talk of double-dip is total hogwash, even in Europe.
What's the matter Leo, not enough people ripping on you today, so you had to fire up a round of name calling?
The energy fundamentals are surely not improving, global growth flies on a wing and a prayer today:
"I am perplexed; I really cannot understand how the world’s economists and commentators on the present precarious global financial situation have not come to the conclusion that must be obvious to all persons who have followed peak oil. Money is not a disembodied quantity; it is related to the real world by means of what people can exchange it for. In particular the relation between energy and money must be very tight to the extent that money pretty well must be a token for energy and therefore for oil."
more:
http://www.theoildrum.com/node/6542#more
But it is super fun stuff to constantly be telling everyone (including yourself) how brilliant you are and how idiotic everyone else is. Especially anyone that dares to argue with you.
We had special treatment for folks like that when I was growing up.
Cold fusion? Where?
In the annals of science fiction, where it will remain.
"In the annals of science fiction" you mean alongside PK Dick? he's actually racking up a solid accuracy average as history unravels.
Drugs: "I can see the future, maaaaaaan."
Sold to you Leo.
I mean really, anything is possible in the short term but in the longer term public finances are permanently larded with obligations that are near-mathematically impossible to ever deliver on. That's not part of a cycle that's a tipping point.
The only way to recover from a credit bubble is by delevering across all levels of society, not by simply converting bad private debts into bad public debts.
Many idiots spend their time arguing inflation/deflation. The man on the street doesn't care; he gets wiped out either way. Price stability is the only good thing for him. Why does his government work against him?
Fun. On the article "world bank cartoon for kids" comment section, many people argue against price stability and ask why prices should be stable. If it is the only good thing for him, how does it come so many people here ignore that?
I admit many are harsh, but many also see reality versus looking at the world through rose colored glasses. Yup, deflation, but how are the fundamentals improving? Less bad is just that, less bad. Leading indicators are down, employmnet is bad - still after 2 years and $2T is stimulus! As far asa Europe not having problems, dude, what are you smoking.
Where do public sector funds come from do you think?
debt// taxes just barely pay interest on the debt
The middle class is shrinking because of people like Huffington. Contemporary, Obama-style liberalism is pretty much the top and the bottom vs. the middle. If you own a modest private sector business, or are in the military, pay your taxes and send your kids to public school, you are the sucker at the table.
It's the middle class, especially the private sector middle class that suffers the most from the consequences of massive waves of illiterate, unskilled immigrants, the rise in entitlement spending and more and more public sector employees with gold plated benefits for life. And if you try and do something about it for once in your life by becoming involved with the Tea Party or the Arizona immigration law, Arianna is going to call you a racist pig. Shut up and pay your taxes.
And by the way, as long as you keep bringing in penniless immigrants than if anyone in America makes more money this year than they did last year that will increase the "income inequality gap." I'm not sayig I want a Latin American style rich/poor divide but think about the math: if the left end of the scale is always zero or close to zero (new, poor immigrants) than any gains made by those on the right end of the scale exacerbates the gap. Since I'm guessing Arianna never wants to stem the flow of penniless immigrants under any conditions that means she wants you to make less money to close the gap.
What about the public vs. private sector gap Arianna? Where do public sector funds come from do you think?
Where do they come from? In the US?
Lets hypothesize that the US army is still a public sector activity.
The US army and its occupation of the world has a large share in the US prosperity.
When it comes to the US private sector, the real question should be where does the private sector money come from?
The answer is by a large part from the US army public activity.
Of course, unpc. Better to claim the reverse.
Arianna is beyond this liberal versus conservative / dem versus repub nonsense; which puts her way beyond you.
you might be right with your lofty assertions, but the fact that she continues to encourage her army of followers to whip themselves into a frenzy across the Great Divide leads some of us who trail behind tracking her breadcrumbs to rightfully question her motives.
as cogdis says, it may not be a matter of IQ, but EQ. your last 6 words also gives some of us stragglers a good idea of where yours (and those of your chosen ilk) falls on the meter.
enjoy the depths of the chasm mate. don't forget your headlight, it's quite dark down there.
Arianna Huffington is the pasty white film that covers the nozzle of my fat Grandma's enema bag.
The collapse is coming, total meltdown, Global Government, bodies in the street (dead ones)!
Peter McWilliams, who knew Huffington from the days when they were both members of the John Roger cult, described her as adopting the beliefs of any group she thought would gain her the most power. For a while she sucked up to conservatives, then decided limousine liberals were the hot ticket.
This bit about income disparity is pure distraction. It plays to the mentality that thinks wealth is drawn from a finite source and anyone getting a lot must be doing so at my expense. It's just idiocy. When I was working at a book store twenty years ago, I didn't view Tom Clancy as impoverishing me because he was getting rich from selling millions of books. Rather, it was Clancy and others like him that made my job exist. Now, that job wasn't the sort of thing to raise a family upon but plenty of the young clerks I supervised were also in school and learning things to qualify for better positions. It was that kind of job. That we helping make the likes of Clancy and Grisham immensely wealthy was not reason for complaint.
The existence of wealthy people, if they come by their wealth honestly, is to everyone's benefit. It's pretty hard to do anything that generates a huge income without creating a lot of jobs along the way. And still more jobs by enjoying that wealth by buying stuff.
I'm far more concerned by those in government who seem to regard poverty as the preferred state for the governed.
bingo on PuffHo. 'tis a pity, i actually enjoy the way she debates an argument & works the neanderthal boys into pissy hissy fits on TV. but like our fair leader & their 'too cool for school' club, they're a bit too smart for their own good. and that will be their undoing, like Achilles.
"The existence of wealthy people, if they come by their wealth honestly, is to everyone's benefit."
maybe it's not the wealth per se, but the belief that wealth is a competition that's the issue.
This is a long read but you can get a handle on current thinking about the state of poverty in the U. S.:
http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2010/07/the-politically-inco...
epobirs
Dude the Gay guy running America blog was a Repub too. Kos and what's his name from CNN were CIA.
I don't trust any of them.
This bit about income disparity is pure distraction. It plays to the mentality that thinks wealth is drawn from a finite source and anyone getting a lot must be doing so at my expense.
Hmmm! Has it occured to you that despite a growing pie, some in power were able to stack the deck so they would capture the lion share of the pie regardless? How else do you explain the remarkable rise in productivity while incomes for the middle class are decreasing post inflation and taxes?
By the way, if you wanna talk to me about global labor arbitrage (more supply than demand, ergo, less incomes for workers) to explain it out, riddle me this Batman: Why isn't there also an global executive arbitrage? Are we to believe that, as labor becomes more abundant, executive level people are becoming more scarce, hence the phenomenal rise in their income level? This defy simple logic, doesn't it?
How about some discussion about the rent seeking phenom in this country? Rent seeking and fee extraction that has reached truly grotesque proportions?
The truth of the matter is that rising income inequality is not a distraction, it is the kernel of the problems that affect this country. It is the tell tale symptom that indicates a corruption of true capitalism in favor of crony capitalism, where the well-connected reap more and more while being protected from their own mistakes, Wall Street being a prime example.
Note that crony capitalism is a sure fire way for a country to lose competitiveness and economic dynamism.
But Hey! Some people like it so much like it is, they'll make sure we become a bona fide banana republic...by throwing some "distractions" along the way.
Wage arbitrage for thee, but not for me!
Your first paragraph (comment 405462) says it all about Huffington. Birds of a feder shtick togeder.
When short on substantive arguments, attack the messenger.
Epo:
"It's pretty hard to do anything that generates a huge income without creating a lot of jobs along the way."
.. try the oil industry - its absolutely un-labor intensive ... its just a money-making machine
The oil industry is un-labor intensive? I challenge you to pick 100 of the roughnecks or pipeliners of your choice, and see how many of those "non-laborers" could kick your ass and eat you for lunch
And BTW, many of them are making 100k a year "honestly".
go back to the time jobs were supplied for the go to school young adult .. pumpimg gas , servicing autos.
now all self service except in oregon,
how many jobs could be created to bring this service back
safer cars, windshield wipers that do not scratch the window lol
windows cleaned ...
...t'would be a drop in the Ocean. (and that's more auto industry than oil industry... you're blurring the line) It doesn't detract from the point - The Oil industry is a perfect example of how its easy to create wealth without creating jobs. How about the legal and illegal drug trade? Really doesn't require labor... just contacts, lobbyists and balls.... when compared to real manufacturing. All I'm saying, is that there are plenty of industries that create wealth without creating significant, well-remunerated, employment.
Of course there is the converse also ... those that create jobs without creating or doing anything - government employees.
yes// ,
+1
yes// well said... the division of labor
yes// well said...
yes// well said... the division of labor
poverty keeps the well heeled politicianin power. divides, and then multiplies problems to their own end.
keeps the wheels of the Keynesian myth humming with solutions that need piles of money . and a population sucking the tit of the cash cow,
ear marks , bridges to no where , entitlements , a chicken in every room , supplied by the largess of the company store ,
"if they come by their wealth honestly"
...anyone want to take a stab at the % of people in the west who do this AND make over $100k a year?
87.42%
I'd say at least 80% of these people (which however make <50% of the group's aggregated income).
And by honestly I understand they're not doing anything illegal, and they're not gaming the system in any economically unsustainable way.
But your premise is off anyway, as making $100k a year doesn't make you rich these days in a western country - let's start with $250k.
read rich man poor man ,
more than many would think. you would never know it by appearance . each plumber, electrician , small business owner .. hire 12 to 15.. pay good wages, benefits . and provide the needed services for the local city and towns of America.
every wonder what the local rooter rooter owner makes cleaning the connections to the sewers of the middle class
and this numbers in the tens of thousands
"more than many would think" ...
oh, that's precise. But I understand your premise. The West is full of hard-working 100k+ per annum people honestly and happily going about their lives... yeah, right...
bump
whats your numbers on this ,
sans those in school.. sans those who did not strive for any thing better, satisfied with less than 25,000 or so,
and yes it is becoming harder and harrier for the middle class to keep up..
as manufacturing jobs are lost .. those in the auto industry for years made good wages , retirement ..
so sad to see all the well paying jobs going to other areas while the owners of thee large corporation suck the life out if the business
The current crop of retireds are finished....
Why ? The savers "bailout"....no interest on savings...
And this is an issue for those that did it right....
Hello Japan.....and hello old people's poverty...
Solution ? For future retirees ie 20 years from now...current crop finished....
Tax structure change....
15% Consumption Tax only
10% State
5% Fed
No other taxes
....................................
Internet based low cost education....available to all....
A better defragmented securities exchange framework....
Drastic reduction of legal largesse....
etc...etc....just to start the list....
Bottom line ? No tax structure change....Hello Mexico...
Your tax structure is a recipe for increased income stratification: or Hello Mexico. Agreed we need a tax structure change, but it should be a heavily regressive income tax with top rates over 70%.
Edit: need to add stronger corporate taxation with removal of corporate tax shelters.
Corporations do not pay taxes. These are passed to thier customers.
I consider Third World status to be the "manifest destiny" of our times -- has been for a while now. It's been rather depressing to watch the transition.
I like how Huffington does the Clinton thing and says we should all be volunteering and working in a food kitchen, while she soaks up trillions and lives the NYC upper-east side life-style. WTF? Is she worried people might get ideas that its a rich/poor divide and that being a rich liberal is a distinction that might get lost in the chaos and someone just might off her ass? No no no no no... don't do anything too "creative" ... go work in a soup kitchen...(... like a good little obedient slave...)
The boundless hypocrisy of Arianna Huff-'n-puff requires a whole new mathematics to properly measure.
It is people like her who, were I to learn that they had been killed in a plane crash or car accident, would only elicit the thought "Well, that's one less."