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Three Dozen Attorneys General To Launch Probe Into RoboSigning On Monday
Perhaps the ruling Fed dictators can just go for a trifecta on November 3, and in addition to determining who wins the mid-term elections and announcing QE2, they can formalize TARP 2 as well. The reason is that starting tomorrow, 36 attorney's general are expect to launch a joint probe into "charges some banks used fraudulent paperwork to kick struggling borrowers out of their homes." Which of course means that Dick Bove is about to start appearing on CNBC every 10 minutes, providing instanalysis how banks have gone from overcapitalized to non-capitalized in the span of a weekend, under very "mysterious" circumstances. More from Reuters: "The source, who spoke on condition of anonymity,
said the deadline for attorneys general to sign on to the investigation
effort led by Iowa's Tom Miller was at the end of the day Monday, so a
formal announcement could be made Tuesday." Whether or not that call will also include demands for a moratorium remains to be seen.
There's more:
At least half a dozen attorneys general have already announced individual investigations into the foreclosure mess.
The total number of attorneys general calling for an investigation is not precisely known but it is expected to be at least three dozen and possibly more.
At this stage, the joint effort is not expected to include a call for a moratorium, the source said, though some attorneys general have already done so in their individual states.
Many, including Miller, are running for re-election or election to other offices.
U.S. Attorney General Eric Holder said last week the Justice Department is looking into the widespread reports of bogus paperwork. It is not clear if the matter is under the jurisdiction of the states or the federal government but federal officials are looking into the matter, the source said.
President Barack Obama, however, opposes a national foreclosure moratorium, though he wants a quick resolution to any foreclosures that might have questionable paperwork, top White House adviser David Axelrod signaled on Sunday.
"I'm not sure about a national moratorium," Axelrod told CBS television. "Our hope is that this moves rapidly and that this gets unwound very, very quickly."
Banks are expected to take over a record 1.2 million homes this year, up from about 1 million last year and just 100,000 as recently as 2005, real estate data company RealtyTrac Inc. said last month.
There are many question marks around what will happen as a result of ForeclosureGate. One thing is certain: injecting fresh trillions of liquidity into a market, in which deleveraging courtesy of an immiennt plunge in home prices as prospective homebuyers decide to step away from the plate in a scandal in which nobody knows just who the titleowner is, will bring such waves of volatility to an already jittery market, that only the biggest and baddest will survive. As always, we recommend that everyone else quietly step aside and let the big boys cannibalize each other's income statement. After all, everyone already knows theit balance sheets are pure magic.
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Can we pretty please use Fauxclosure instead of ForeclosureGate!
Yes. Or Fraudgate, Wheresthenote-gate, record-gate, document-gate. Anything that takes the meme from foreclosures and focuses on the much, much wider issue of origination/documentation issues.
My vote is for Fraudgate. It should develop slowly though. The average person still doesn't understand what is happening, and Foreclosuregate will certainly be a more compelling title for the time being.
Good point. But I hope that public understanding develops quick, because I don't trust these pompous state AG's to do it right. The larger beast could end up being stillborn under their midwifery.
x2 "Fraudgate".
My question is, what about the title insurance? If you have banks collecting payments on houses they don't legally own because they committed fraud during the mortgage origination, then the people who are making the payments, people who undoubtedly were required to obtain title insurance, are the victims of title fraud, and are entitled to compensation from the title insurance company, and may very well be entitled to the TITLE! Where are the title insurance companies--which are all just financial institutions--gonna get this money? Could this be why the market was run up like it was on such insanely low volume by the WFGM-funded and 0% Fed-funded HFT, to generate cash for the financials in anticipation of these events?
That's an honest question--I have no clue. But I did write a little about it, and I manage to did find and link up several articles that develve into the title insurance issue a bit more:
http://banksterreport.blogspot.com/2010/10/massive-foreclosure-fraud-con...
There will hopefully be more analysis on this issue soon. This is insane. I bet the DJIA will shoot up 500 points tomorrow, and all the financials will be rallying to continue this fraud!
I think you're confusing some issues here. Banks do not own houses, banks have liens on houses. If a bank owns a house, then that means either there was equity to be had in the house by ousting the owner OR something went terribly wrong and the foreclosure department didn't get the memo from the accounting department.
Also, how do you commit fraud on the origination of a mortgage? Debtor goes into closing and gets keys to the house in exchange for signing a note and a mortgage... now, what happens from there can get ridiculously technical, but the debtor has not been defrauded regardless of what happens to the assigns of the mortgage instrument... now, investors would be a totally different ballgame (GSEs). The fraud occurs in falsifying documents before the court claiming you are the rightful party to bring a foreclosure suit, however the mortgage is still a viable instrument, it's just that priority of that mortgage may be different than alleged. For example, if you claim you are the first, but yet in the assignments of that mortgage, you failed to properly follow any necessary formality, then you're probably not a first any longer. (it's not just homeowners that are going to be seeking to invalidate foreclosure proceedings).
Further, banks collect payments on notes as the servicing parties of the notes. The bank does not need to have an ownership interest in a home in order to rightfully collect payments on the notes... all they need is an agreement with the assignee of the note.
Last, an action to collect on a title insurance policy is not going to divest the true owner, whoever that may be, of title to the property. The purchaser at a foreclosure sale is simply going to be made whole for his/her purchase and likely any improvements made to the property while living there/owning it. If the purchaser at a foreclosure sale is to divest the true owner of title, then there will need to be a court determination on the merits... this will depend on a great many things including, but not limited to, notice provided to defaulting debtor, whether defaulting debtor made an appearance in the foreclosure case, whether defaulting debtor has a meritorious defense, etc.
I've said it once and I'll say it again, prospectively, the lienholders will get their shit together before proceeding... however, retrospectively, title insurance companies as well as the banks are in for a shitstorm of lawsuits...
The debtor is defrauded if they can not get clear title when they pay-off the note either at a sale, or after 20+ years of paying the note.
Also, how do you commit fraud on the origination of a mortgage?
Easy, inflate the appraisal. That's just for starters, and also why we have LAWS (remember those quaint things?) like TILA and RESPA, to guard against fraud in making LOANS.
Otherwise, good comment. Party on, Garth.
Agreed. Outside the scope of my discussion... literally happens all day every day...
Another way to commit fraud on the origination of a mortage is through forging signatures on mortgage origination documents! That's about as clear as fraud can get---forging signatures on legal documents (which is the focus of the Kentucky class action). Also, the mortgage might not be a viable instrument if the counterparty (occupant) can impune the credibility of the bank, which is exactly what happens when banks knowingly "verify" documents that they have intentionally falsified. Another huge implication of this is that when fraud is discovered, the cases are now longer solely under the pervue of contract judges, but are now also straight-up civil injury and criminal cases, which is exactly why the AG's are now involved. Perjury is a crime.
Remember those "rocket-dockets" in Florida last year, where a single judge was running through 1000 or more foreclosures in a single day? Yeah, that's going to bite them in butt now. And please don't call laws "formalities:" contracts are based on law, and if you ignore laws you compromise the contract (I'm not saying that you are saying to ignore the law, but I am saying that ignoring "formalities" required by the law is.). Ask anyone who's been foreclosed on if the their bank has been so kind as to ignore those pesky "formalities"--they're gonna tell you "no way!" The banks' lawyers (like any good lawyers) will find the tiniest little "formality" to throw in the face of the home occupant. Law is law. So that's why you dot your i's and cross you t's, because the banks will throw it in your face if you don't.
What's going on now is that we are seeing that the banks are the ones who not only are ignoring dotting i's and crossing t's, but who are forging and falsifying documents.
And as for the title insurance, we don't know who the "true" owners are: how can we if the title was transferred under fraudulent conditions? If we just assume that the purchaser of a foreclosed house will "simply" be made whole, we are ignoring the fact that we are dealing with a title insurance company! Insurance companies don't do anything unless they are contractually obligated, and when you have two claimants to the same title, the title companies are going to have to wait for a court determination. I wouldn't be surprised if one of the results of this is that some title insurance companies simple won't insurance certain "lines" of titles because they determine that the possible claims against those titles are too unclear, and thus, too risky.
Uh-oh---I just googled "mers titles" in regard to what I said above, and turns out that its already happening! Check this out: the nation's biggest title insurance company, Old Republic, has stopped writing policies for all Ally and JPM foreclosure sales!
http://www.dailymarkets.com/stock/2010/10/11/foreclosuregate-the-biggest...
Yikes! Check this out, from the article above:
"They won't insure it after completion after the foreclosure," Weiner says (a title insurance agent and real estate lawyer). "This is going to set us back years. It's really going to be a mess. I think you're going to see actions to reopen foreclosures that already took place. This will have tremendous consequences and all title companies will do the same thing. We've never seen anything like this before."
Word, good luck sellling those houses, JPM and Ally, when even the nation's largest title insurance company is too afraid to go near the title! One more thing-- banks do own houses: a lein is just a legal claim to the title, because the title determines legal possession of the loan collateral, which in a mortgage is the house. Of course banks own houses.
I agree with you and this lawyer lady--there are going to be floods of lawsuits. And I think there will be more than just lawsuits, but also criminal cases. What a mess. And its what the banks deserve, as far as I am concerned. I have no sympathy for fraud!
You're confusing the issues here. You have to look at who the fraud was committed against... forging signatures on original documents is not a fraud as to the party who DID SIGN A MORTGAGE IN RETURN FOR THE KEYS TO A HOUSE. Rather, it is a fraud against the court... big difference. Essentially, one of the basic elements of fraud is damages... how is a party who took out a loan and signs a mortgage securing the loan damaged by a mortgage signed by bugs bunny? Point being, equitably speaking, the debtor owes some party the mortgage.
What has happened is that creditors/purported lienholders have tried to foreclose on people without having the proper/authentic documentation to do so... this creates a fraud on the court... and, essentially, as a penalty, the court can dismiss their case with prejudice, likely removing any lien on the property.
In order to enforce a mortgage, all you need is the signature of the party to be charged with performance, i.e. the mortgagor... all they have to do is say, judge, we're not sure who the proper party to bring this is, so we've added all these plaintiffs and the court can determine the proper party... but, we've agreed amonst ourselves, the proper party is X, we just need your confirmation... then no fraud on the court... again, prospectively this isn't a big deal... retrospectively it's a total fucking nightmare.
Mortgage-Frauds-R-Us-gate.
No down payment. We have a mortgage fraud for that.
No can afford monthly mortgage payments. We have a mortgage fraud for that.
No documentation. We have a mortgage fraud for that.
No job. No income. We have a mortgage fraud for that.
No satisfactory appraisal price. We have a mortgage fraud for that.
No proper origination documents. We have a mortgage fraud for that.
No AAA rating for securitization. We have a mortgage fraud for that.
No legal transfer of note. We have a mortgage fraud for that.
No clear title. We have a mortgage fraud for that.
No time to review and legally process thousands of foreclosures. We have a mortgage fraud for that.
No money in banks to pay multi-billion mortgage fraud claims. We have TARP II mortgage fraud upon taxpayers due to aiding and abetting by Fed, Treasury, and Congressional bank puppets.
I like it! +1
"As the Revolving Fauxclosuregate Turns"
sunday 300 pm pacific. Markets just opened, USD @77.00 yikes
How about a OopsMyBad-gate!
fourleafclosure: good luck getting title
A French sounding name might give it some sex appeal...."Menage-a-Fraud".
We do have an unusal threesome going here...homeowners, banksters and investors.
Why is everything gate anyway?
How about White Picket Fence Gate?
I like Fauxclosure.
Even the worm turns
Too Big to Fail = Too Big to Jail
Welcome to the plutocracy of the United States. Steal a candy bar go to jail. Steal a billion get a bonus. All of this SHIT IS RUBBERSTAMPED BY THE FUCKERS IN CONGRESS.
Too Big to Fix
Dick Bove is too busy fighting with Chase over his mortgage mod.
How about Fraud-closure?
"I'm not sure about a national moratorium," Axelrod told CBS television. "Our hope is that this moves rapidly and that this gets unwound very, very quickly."
Thanks for the laugh. Events are out of your (Federal) control.
Sadly, Axelrod is not making a prognostication, he is TELLING you this will move very very quickly.
Anyone who thinks that the Government is not going to quickly sweep this under the rug (AGAIN) for the banks is being naive.
Not going to happen - it's too big.
This is where the worm turns.
Can't happen. More than one artery busted......
The dog in your avatar pic is great - looks like its having a blast.
It is having a blast. It has many human slaves that work tirelessly to: feed it, water it, give it its own bed (although since said dog is a human slave owner all beds are his), clean up his ca ca, massage him upon request....he does nothing for any of this except sleep and pee on things outside. And be cute as all. It is laughing at all of us humans right now and saying - "don't panic - cant you eat dead bird or rat? Oh, that is right....It is good to be the King."
Yeah I'll be king when dogs get wings
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AddZi8QntR8&feature=fvw
:) Great Pom Teddy
There's your accommodation for serving the master well - peeing (and I am assuming ca-ca) outside.
@ harborcity
yes, this is too big.
one minute i held the key, next the walls were closed on me,
and i discovered that my castles stand, upon pillars of salt and pillars of sand.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dvgZkm1xWPE
For all those that whine about how this will be swept under the rug, ignored, or otherwise funded by a tax-payer bailout - instead of whining, DO SOMETHING. This is our moment, our chance. Unlike in prior bailouts with crisis's that came quickly and <could> be blamed on a variety of parties, the banks CANNOT BLAME ANYONE ELSE FOR NOT DOING THEIR JOBS (and not transferring notes, proper underwriting, avoiding centuries of RE law, etc., etc.). And then for covering it up by kicking people out of their homes without due process and committing fraud upon the court.
DO SOMETHING. Any one that doesn't, and still complains, deserves what they eventually get.
Some ideas:
Write your state AG to ask them to participate in any investigation. Bring in the MBS issue. Express concern about your own title. Use a friend/family member as a story. Discuss the rule of law. How white collar crime is just as damaging to the health of our society. Ask that they halt foreclosures, but also look deeper into the original sin of this.
Write your hedge fund, pension administrator, bond mutual fund, bond ETF manager to inquire about their knowledge of the situation and if their RMBS has appropriately secured positions in the underlying assets.
Write an editorial to the paper, asking for them to report on this. Discuss a couple issues. Warn your fellow citizens about the health of their society.
Write to your senators and representatives (state and national) - that they support an investigation in this. Warn them about the idea of bailing out the banks again.
Write a letter to your bank asking for proof of title/loan ownership. I'll scan the web to see if any already exist.
Inform any friends/family in foreclosure or near it of this issue, and its possible ramifications.
Move any checking accounts/money out of the TBTF banks.
Post some information on MSM website/blogs to correct their interpretations of this as just some technical documentation issues.
Any other ideas people have to take action? What would happen if 100,000 people simultaneously asked for proof of loan ownership/standing?
It may not be much for now, but movements start small and grow until they hit the tipping point. That would be our aim.
+1 You got it, brother. Been on it for several days. Read Floyd Norris about H.R. 3808. Call and write media people and your reps about what a disgusting bi-partisan cover up it is.
Nobody wants to look at this because, oh, I don't know, it's the biggest fraud in the history of the capital markets, the greatest heist in the history of the world. The saving grace may be that the ugly battle between junior and senior tranche holders will become so bloody that the entertainment value of the splatter will be impossible to ignore.
Here is some help.
http://www.usa-the-republic.com/jurisprudentia/foreclosures/index.html
You rock, TJ! This truly is an opportunity the likes of which the common man has never seen before.
I will get busy just as you suggest.
We all know: It's now or never.
This bill passed both bodies and is awating 0bama's signature as we talk:
A bill that would make it more difficult to challenge the legality of documents related to foreclosures has passed Congress and is awaiting President Barack Obama's signature.
http://www.dailyfinance.com/story/credit/bill-that-would-aid-foreclosures-awaits-presidents-signature/19664660/
double posted
taraxias -
Jlee was implying that this is not in Federal jurisdiction. It is a state issue, and as such, Obama has no control over the situation.
It is in the hands of each states AG. So, if Bill McCollum over in Florida puts on a foreclosure freeze, than...there is a foreclosure freeze in Florida.
This is why you haven't seen Eric Holder anywhere.
Well, that and the fact that Eric Holder is a corrupt, utterly politicized useless piece of shit (and also a dead ringer for Oprah's former(?) boyfriend).
But it is a federal issue.... first, it is unconstitutional for states to blanket ban foreclosures... there are some foreclosures that are properly conducted (I do them). Once this is understood, then you get back to the whole point that it's already illegal to do what has been done... no need to do anything but enforce existing law... not make knee jerk reactions on new ones.
It becomes a federal issue because at the drop of a hat, since the GSEs own all the mortgages, obama says "stop foreclosing". Simple as that... In other words, prospectively, there will be no more "i'm going to punish you for filing this lawsuit by completely voiding the mortgage instrument"... all that is left to contain is the retrospective application of the fraud... and finding them is going to be difficult... it will be the burden of the foreclosed homeowner to prove fraud occurred. Further, the foreclosed homeowner is going to need to be able to come up with a convincing argument to keep the house (that has probably been promptly sold to a disinterested third party, for value). I also find it highly doubtful that the defaulting homeowner is going to be able to use his/her title insurance to file the lawsuit... my guess is that title insurance companies are not going to be on the hook for defaulting homeowners... effectively, no harm no foul. If the defaulting homeowner gets it back, then there are no damages... if he/she does not, then what are the damages when he/she was in default anyway?
It is a federal issue because there will be a federal clearinghouse established to determine the proper party/lienholder to bring the foreclosure actions... this will create a legal precedent that prohibits state courts from denying... the issue will be over.
The States have VERY CLEAR title transfer laws. That is clearly a State not Federal jurisdiction. If the title has not been properly transferred that a final foreclosure cannot happen, until proper title has been transferred to the party that has the note - or else they have no standing in the court and can't foreclose.
yes, but you're presuming the constitution and many other items currently in place will remain constant... you are mistaken. This will be fixed and it will be fixed federally and state courts will be prohibited from diving into the question of the "true" owner through federal precedent... the cases will be dumped to the states solely on other issues... (falsifying documents, meritorious defenses of defaulting homeowners, disposition of any bfps, etc.)... there will be a federal clearinghouse set up to determine the true owners... again, only a retrospective problem, not a prospective problem...
Further, there's nothing stopping them from firing a plaintiff "shotgun" and naming every damn person along the lien chain... all they have to do is ask the court to sort it out... the court will go back in line to whoever has the correct paperwork, let them foreclose, and then the rest of the parties act as though this was the way it was supposed to work all along, giving the last guy on the totem pole the spoils of war...
Since "sweeping it under the rug" requires State government to go along - it will not be so easy. Also since many of the owners of the deficient MBS bonds are foreign (including Central Banks) this is an international problem.
a string of excellent comments AC, thanks
To me it shows that this is just another situation they do not understand.
Where is my free home?????
Should I still pay my mortgage or should I stop paying, now!?
"...there is no going back"
"....Tyler, you changed things, forever"
"....you complete me"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ohU16OiduUs
Joker
....soooo this news means stocks will be up 2% tomorrow, right?
Complete financial and banking chaos at 57 levels = gooder for stocks???
Up 5% on Tues. Monday is a holiday, remember?
U European, or are you just happy to see me?
Stocks are open tomorrow. Bonds aren't. Columbus Day is and has been a great day to pump stocks because of the lower volume.
will tommorrow be the market drop, tank, to save the dollar? Would it even work and is that their(Fed) desire
The middle chart is GLD/SLV. You can see this is an excellent indicator, when this ratio is at a bottom, the market usually tanks, within 3 to 5 days, but sometimes immediately. The trick is figuring out when the bottom is.
This top chart is SPY/VIX I plotted it just to see if any interesting effects came up....none really
The Bottom chart is SPX, the S&P 500, follow each purple line from the GLD/SLV bottoms. Amazing methinks. The two highlighted candle patterns are similar, the first one started the Head of the infamous 2009 Head and Shoulders Bear trap. The second one is NOW.
And finally, a boatload of other charts for your free consumption.
Like this stuff? Sign up as a follower and then follow on your Google reader.
http://oahutrading.blogspot.com/
Grand Theft Homeo XX bitchez!
Am I the only one that feels the timing of this thing is convenient or orchestrated. Why is this an issue NOW? This could have been brought up anytime in the last 2 years. I smell a rat.
Yes, you are the only one. The break-in up in Orlando was the avalanche trigger.
That and the other guy in Florida, Gordensky or something like that, who had paid cash for his home and, incredibly, found that Bank of America had somehow foreclosed on him. What a great story that was. Can't blame the victim in that case when the guy didn't even *have* a freaking mortgage.
This is bad news as putting these individual investigations together will make them easier to manipulate by TPTB.
Excellent point!
36 separate AG's also have the chance that one completely on the up and up AG will be able to get to the bottom of things in his jurisdiction. With 36 of them together, you just know that the corrupt, placeholder, campaign finance money whores will overwhelm the few good ones.
Fred that is exactly why they are being funnelled into one caption and that is exactly what will happen. No way can they risk dissent.
Oh its going to move rapidly and get unwound very very quickly. You betcha.
Is it the banks and their management? Or is it the services and lawyers they hired to do a job?
Greece gets another bailout.
http://noir.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=awPrv1WAWmR8&pos=1
Euro is going vertical on this news.
.
Robo, the question continues to be can they keep the dishes spinning on the ends of the sticks and if so for how long? I wince when I see your "good" news worrying that when the crash comes it is going to be painful beyond belief.
Au and Ag also
Yup!
Well they wanted to devalue the dollar...
Now, because the lame duck session is coming up next. The looting of Social Security will/can only be dwarfed by this kind of fiasco. Move quickly means - bipartisan retroactive impunity.
When they get a handle on this mess down the road, a house at foreclosure thats worth $ 500,000 will go for $ 100,000 because they will dump them all on the mkt at the same time.
I used to go to the forclosure auctions when they only had 50 on the courthouse steps. Today they are held in standing room only convention centers with thousands of foreclosures.
Are there anybody out there who can help? Is there an easy, fast and independent way to check who owns the title on an individual real estate and how it is connected to the banks and servicers?
Not any more. Now, you can pay for ten years and have a primary CDO holder foreclose on your current mortgage.
Here's what I found out. According to my locally elected Clerk of the Court, the FLORIDA LEGISLATURE changed the real property laws in Florida so that if a mortgage was transferred as a "business transaction" then the note did not have to be recorded. So, our mortgage was initially recorded, then sold to ABN AMRO and recorded...however, ABN AMRO sold their mortgage servicing arm to Citibank, hence, a business transfer. I have ordered my mortgage documents from Citi. IF my mortgage documents say anything about "being recorded upon transfer," I am forwarding the whole thing to the Florida Attorney General because Citi would be in default of my mortgage contract. This is the only hope that I have of a properly recorded mortgage.
God damnit this is getting tiresome. Look, if you signed a mortgage, there is a rightful party out there who can legally divest you of title to your property if you default. period. end of story. The only way you're going to get out of your mortgage is if some financial institution is stupid enough to try and foreclose on you without the ability to do so... good luck with that at this point.
The only thing recording a mortgage does is determine priority... it's still a valid contract between you and the mortgagee and its assigns...
Nothin's sacred, ehh?
We are paying our mortgage, we are current. My fear is that we pay the house off and there is no one to issue a satisfaction (cause they damn sure don't want to record an assignment) OR that the primary holders of the CDO decides that we haven't been paying the correct party or that the CDO's rights are superior to our servicer OR that ANY ONE can just come in forge a document and "become" our mortgage holder.....but that would never happen, right? We used to have real property rights that protected us from all this.
Yeah, but who? No one can PROVE it.
Who owns the house? Who holds the lien?
It's not a trivial problem, apparently, although one would think it should be. I mean...the world hasn't gone completely MAD. There's a perfectly good explanation for all this!
Right?
Not exactly what you're after, but it'll get you started:
http://4closurefraud.org/2009/10/18/foreclosure-fraud-guide-to-looking-u...
Thanks Conrad. It is amazing (and scary).
If there was, there would be no mess.
Now that Governor Wm. J. LePetomane has said hurrumph we'll see some serious action ...
ROFLMAO
foreclose me if you can bitchez! :P
Your chance to short Bank of America and Mr. Paulson into the darkness of the universe. Payback time ! Strong sell.
Banks taking over 1.1 million homes?, They are putting over 500,000 a quarter into foreclosure.
"The percentage of loans on which foreclosure actions were started during the second quarter was 1.11 percent"
http://www.mortgagebankers.org/NewsandMedia/PressCenter/73799.htm
I am deeply suspicious of all this crap. Why do I have a nagging feeling that these attorneys general are unwittingly playing into the hands of someone with a long term plan?
Why did TPTB let something as obviously flawed as this go on so long?
Is there any way the federal government can end up owning the notes, and be the only one who could bring foreclosure actions?
Is there any way the federal government can use their newly acquired ownership of these notes as collateral for "loans" from the Federal Reserve? Could this all end up with the Fed owning the mortgage notes to half of the housing in the country?
That would seem to be the threat under a multitude of scenarios we face today. Taking down the banks appears to be our best chance of avoiding that, imo.
Tyler, you seem to think the foreclosure mess mainly hits banks, but why? According to H8, they are holding only $180 billion of total private MBS. Probably less than $140 billion of that is private single-family MBS. That's less than 10% of the total outstanding $1.4 billion of private single-family MBS.
Seems to me this mainly hits the so-called shadow banking sector. It might hit foreign banks harder than our own.
It also hits the federal government, through the GSE/agency MBS. That explains Axelrod's sentiment, and the notarization bill. State and local governments also lose out on property taxes.
These AGs are just making political hay while the making's good. Their interest will dissolve as soon as the election's over. Then the federal sweep-it-under-the-rug team will get back to work.
It hits the banks in their role as originators, servicers and sponsors of the trusts. If there is securities fraud, they are the ones who have committed it and therefore the investors have the right to demand compensation under Reps and Warranties. The ones owing the risks might actually benefit from this, as it gives them the potential to recover losses, even demand their money back.
Surely you mean Trillion, not $1.4 billion. And don't forget the synthetic CDOs built on top of the CMBSs.
I am guessing the federal/GSE loans are not infected by faulty assignments. Remember, the GSEs actually funded a fairly small portion of the Bubble - the private MBS market did the heavy lifting. This is all about the private, Bubble era, MBSs having fatal defects.
Yeah yeah yeah, sorry, synapse misfire there, I obviously meant $1.4 trillion of outstanding single-family private MBS. That's the amount of single-family mortgages owned by private ABS pools, from 2q flow of funds, table L.129, line 6.
If the main thing US banks have to worry about it is lawsuits brought by the hedge funds, foreign banks and whoever else owns the other 90% of the private MBS, then US banks don't seem to be in much immediate danger.
The GSE and agency MBS are definitely caught up in this and it is definitely costing the federal government. It's not clear to me whether the GSEs and agencies did any better job than private MBS issuers of ensuring that re-assignment documents were done properly. I'd like to think they did, but I sure wouldn't assume it.
Regardless, the robo-signing procedure was being used for all MBS, not just private. The recent foreclosure and eviction moratoriums affect all MBS, not just private. When a GSE or agency MBS mortgage goes bad, it's the federal government that's on the hook to either fund the scheduled payments to the MBS holders or redeem the whole MBS early.
I think we should call this.. Foreclosuregate.
Wow look at the stock futures go, the usual straight up rock ride blasting off.
2 /ES points is a rock ride blasting off?
If I had a mortgage I would toddle on down to my local Bank and ask them for a copy of it. I would be prepared to pay any fee they would need to produce it. At this point in time I would definitely make SURE everything was in order..............just sayin'.
My thoughts exactly. I have ordered my mortgage documents and will go over them with a fine tooth comb. If there is anything about the assignment being recorded upon transfer, I will turn the whole thing over to the Attorney General because the note holder would be in default of my mortgage contract.
Why do you not have copies of all your mortgage documents? Didn't you walk out of closing with a nice, fat file? I have all mine from the 2003 purchase, as well as the ones from my prior house which closed in 1988.
looks to me as if the banks have learned nothing. they are foreclosing on loans pretty much they way tehy originated them...fruaduently allegedly
Heck yah, ol' Axe will just dust off the Chrystler Bond Playbook--more slop for the unions. In the pocket supreme court justice; all good.
And no, he doesn't want the unwind over the next month.
- Ned
I rent and will never buy a house. The only banks i do business is Barclays ( Financed my Macbook Pro ) and Chase. They have NEVER bothered me once and never touched my Interest rate because i pay on time and give them payments in big chunks. Im not sticking up for Banks, But lets face it, They are there when you need them. They only ask you make your payment on time. I have no complaints with doing business with Barclays and Chase. There i said it!! Thanks Barclays for being there and helping me with my purchase.
So when Chase approves a $1.5 million loan to my pet chimp and my pet chimp can't pay and the government forces you to cover that loan than that is all good and banks are just doing their job?
yeah...thanx chase.
I know Its not right, Im just saying my experience with banks are very simple and pleasureable. Just keep it simple and pay on time. Thats all they ask.
So, If you know it's not right, and you find that treatment pleasurable...
I'm just confused. Nevermind.
Catholic, perhaps?
@plocequ1
never touched my Interest rate because i pay on time
no, they never touched ur interest rate because 22.99% is fine with the mafia banksters
im surprised that someone smart enough to buy a mac would go for the barclay's 22.99% interest charge card.
http://store.apple.com/us/instant_credit?mco=MTg4Mjg4OTU
Now that's wrong to say. I'm Catholic.
I had misgivings. Sorry. I was thinking about the organizational coverup of the known abuses and the sad reality that even the victims often remained silent and piously "observant" for many years.
-
I don't do any banking with the big'uns, but I do have an amusing relationship with Barclays.
I got one of their credit cards a few years back, when it had no annual fee and something like 15% interest. I've used the thing about 4 times. They sent me a letter saying my interest rate is now 29%. Or maybe it was 35%. Whatever.
Every year, I see an annual fee in June (maybe July, I just know it's a warm month). So every year I call their friendly customer service people and tell them to cancel the card. They ask me to reconsider. I say no. They offer me free membership in a rewards program. I say no, 'cause I never use the card. They offer to reduce the fee. I say no, when I got it it was free, and I'm not going to start paying a fee. Then they transfer me to someone who BEGS me to keep the card and agrees to waive the fee. I agree to keep it.
I dunno, I'm easy to please I guess, but I always get a kick out of that.
I don't think I'd say it's "pleasurable," tho.
They're hoping you'll need it as a life line some day. They you will be in a set of circumstances where you can't pay it all off in the first month. You're stuck with high interest rate. I'd shut 'er down, but it can affect your credit rating -- if that's something you care about.
I've been fortunate enough to have already experienced the destitute lifestyle.
A credit-card will never again be any kind of "life-line" for this dog, no siree. If I ever max it, it's because I've decided I'm skipping out on civilized society and ready to die with my boots on. I don't expect it to come to that, but hey...we all do what we can.
I can't decide whether it's optimism or pessimism, but I lean in the direction of thinking that I'm going to outlive Barclays.
Careful Blunderdog; I know of a German guy who said fuck it, went to Pattaya in So. Thailand, fucked and drank for two years on $120,000 and when it ran out he jumped from a hotel window. Brother it's a hollow feeling...
Glibly, I'd just quip that given my credit limit, I'd be lucky to manage 2 WEEKS! ;)
But more sincerely, totally agreed. As I said, I don't expect it to come to that.
Self-destruction is by far the easiest, and emptiest, of life's paths.
The thing that occasionally hurts me is when I see the folks doing it who don't even *know.* About two decades back I watched an older man drink himself to death while hating the job he worked every day and despising every single one of the people he lived with. At the time, I wasn't wise enough to care or try to help. I catch the occasional glimpse of that guy's soul posting here, I think.
The worst of both worlds. Hell exists. It's right here, and you can find it if you look.
(On a personal level, I thank you for the kind words.)
I thought that is what credit cards are for...
The bankster's are sensing a hyperinflationary ramp, in which replacement cost of housing will go parabolic. Accelerating foreclosures means they can show the assets on their balance sheets by the time Jan Lumber trades at $1,200 which means Case-Schiller average home price is $1,000,000.
Homeowner loses, banksters win, politicians get cashed up with campaign contributions just in time for the Federal elections.
None of this crap would be happening if the deflationary collapse was in the cards. Who would want title to a collapsing asset?
I'm sure an amusing cartoon involving the three little pigs fairy tale and the banker wolf trying to 'blow their house down' could be fabricated with hilarious results.
Gallows humor, more people will suffer before the bank-tards get their act together. Is this a "The center cannot hold" moment we are witnessing? Sure feels like it.
In my county you can look at the foreclosure docs online at the county's website. I've been having fun looking at all the different signature styles for the same notaries, and all the different looking doc date stamp styles (perhaps cut and pasted from other foreclosures to get 'correct-looking' docs?). I used to peruse the docs just to see the dumb loan provisions people would sign for, but now, because most of the foreclosures are run through just a few law firms, it's easy to spot inconsistencies in the look of the docs and the date patterns.
I'm surprised that local news folks or consumer advocates or legal beagles aren't simply doing this instead of just reprinting the few publicly-paraded examples. I've been downloading copies to a file, just in case they get 'disappeared'...
If you want to have fun playing along with this slow motion train wreck at home, just Google foreclosure records in your county and see what kind of a document sleuth you and your family might be. If your county doesn't provide a site like that, just pick one that does. Why simply write a flamer to the editor when you can include links or screen grabs of real foreclosure docs?
More fun than a barrel of Mozilos!
I don't suppose I could still take out that no-doc 105% LTV mortgage so I too can strategically default like all my neighbours. OK, how about 80% LTV and we'll call it a draw.
I feel like a total patsy having paid cash a couple years ago (too much Dave Ramsay I guess). Even though most people borrow to buy, there are enough of us schmucks out here to breathe some life into Lorenzo's hypothesis that a silent revolt is a coming.
So, where's the closure?
Now that the scandal has turned into the 50 State crisis it's game on. The government is going to intervene and end up controlling the entire mortgage industry. They are already in over their heads with Fannie and Freddie so they need this crisis to silently grab the rest, cover up the fradulent mess, and in the end it will look like they saved America once again. Look at the past year's housing figures and you will understand. 85% of loans were either FHA or were backstopped by the government, and oh, here's 8000 dollars for your downpayment. They have vowed to give Fannie and Freddie unlimited support, what ever it takes. If your looking for a grim outcome regarding the banks, forget it... look no further then AIG. The cronies that caused the subprime meltdown which led us into the abyss should have been jailed but instead they were paid 100's of billions in CDS at 100 cents on the taxpayer dollar. So you think this whole title mess just happened by mistake? I don't! I think the banks knew all along this would end up as a litigation nightmare that would need a government bailout and all the toxic sludge they were generating would just end up on the taxpayer's backs in the end. How convienent, just before the whole ball of fluff came unraveled. I mean who is is the deepest? I think it's the FED, and I think all the MBS purchases over the past year was done for a reason. You don't think Bennie and his pets didn't know about this? I'm not convinced that this whole mess wasn't part of the original plan when they drummed up this synthetic ponzi. It was supposed to end this way so the control of America's largest assets would end up in the control freaks hands where they want them. History just repeating itself, over and over again.I'm convinced that once the dust settles and the Government is in control they will re-finance everybody at low FHA rates. Underwater? no problem...Cram you down. Haven't paid for 2 years? No problem..sign on the dotted line. Once the whole refi scam is done and American's take time to read the fine print they will realize that these new loans to the Government have to be paid in FULL!! No exceptions...No strategic defaults, no bankruptcy...NUTTIN! You're on our wheel now you rat so keep on running. Kind of the same situation they did with the student loan programs..Took the industry over and now own our children with loans that have to be re-paid...NO EXCEPTIONS. So with that said.... welcome to your new America. How do you like it so far?
Yeah man,
First TARPwas over 3000 years, ago.
Joseph did that, in a true bailout style.
Egipt was land of plenty, as well, once.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e4y3Qx8XCrA&feature=related
"instanalysis"
I bow.
I am humbled.
So. It is clear that the only way to preserve the wealth of those who occupy wealth is that all law protecting property is removed.
Can someone give me the exact date that the right to property was removed from each and every Citizen of the United States of America?
And yet, the CNBC money honies will tell us the bank's balance sheets are still hunky dory with a gleam in their eye.
And you are the only person in the Universe that understands honey. Thanks for your fight.
Don’t come back.
I'd like to introduce a new concept just to jiggle things up. The situation isn't nearly confusing enough.
Some asshole such as myself invests a hundred dollas into good paperwork for some kind of homownershit of a house currently sitting vacant. I move in. At some point perhaps the sherriff shows up and I show him my paperwork.
Anyone have any good idea how that would game out?
Would a case actually have to be fought and processed and all that? That could take months or years. If I lose and have to vacate, I buy more paperwork (the smart money would buy a few copies on different vacant properties in advance) and move into the house down the block.
Not sure if it's apt, but the term "freeclosure" would work for me.
This is NOT legal advice.
Firstly, the sheriff is not going to look "at paper work." That's a civil matter, which they should not involved in. If the sheriff posts the house it would include any DOES resided there.
The general idea is called "adverse possession" and also "unlawful detainer" and every state/county has its own methods for removing someone from a property. Some are faster than others. Some legal actions are un-posted with the county clerk to not alert squatters so you can't find the record until you are formally served. The best scenario is to back date a lease with a current defaulting debtor and have them move out. You move in and put the utilities in your name. Write the lease for some low ball monthly rent you may be in a situation where you have to pay your "old rent" to the new owner. Live in the house through the foreclosure process and wait for the new owner - the bank or new buyer to knock on the door. Likely it will be a real estate agent or bank servicer. They will take your name, but notice their attorney, who will post the house with a 3 day notice to quit. At that point you can start negotiating with the new owner's attorney. Most judicial processes take 60 to 90 days to get to the point of having the sheriff evict you. Say it costs $2,000-$5,000 in legal fees to evict, then paying you half that amount to leave is cheaper than going to court. This is the essence of "cash for keys."
Remember the old adage - possession is 9/10ths of the law. Well that applies to real property big time. You're a squatter or leasor. You have "rights." Those rights may extend to 3 days, or 6 months. It may be resolved with the boot, "cash for keys" or a formal judicial process, which you are not likely to win. Cash for keys is a very common practice in Las Vegas - Google it. The best key to demonstrating your "claim" is to turn the utilities on in your name and maintain the property in an open and notorious way. Pay the taxes if you are so sure of your claim. You at least want a "lease" from the prior owner, or some recorded document that make you have title standing before any NOD get filed. Re-conveyance? At the same time, if you leave to go to work, don't be surprised if someone changes the locks while you are gone and stores your personal property. If you are going to play dirty tricks, so are they and by they we mean the "servicers" - not the banks directly - who are no better than car thieves in their tools and tactics.
This bill passed both bodies and is awating 0bama's signature as we talk:
A bill that would make it more difficult to challenge the legality of documents related to foreclosures has passed Congress and is awaiting President Barack Obama's signature.
http://www.dailyfinance.com/story/credit/bill-that-would-aid-foreclosures-awaits-presidents-signature/19664660/
Uh. You are a tad behind the curve with that. Obama did NOT sign.
If Americans sit back and allow HR3808 to pass without going out onto the streets to protest then I am sorry but the jokes about vaseline and American Idol and Dancing with the Stars are true ! Come on America ENOUGH ALREADY !
All these bright comments mean is that nobody knows how this is going to affect the banksters, MBS holders, CDOs, Fannie, the DC swamp, the OTC black hole, gold, all markets, families, the country, or our future. Not to mention the dialog on CNBC. I think it's a silent nuke so far.
So, have the Hollywood rights to this whole mess been settled yet? We need a new Oliver Stone, you know.
Something along the lines of "Lord of the blings" would be appropriate. A heart-wrenching story about Fraudo and Bimbo Baggins, played by Bernanke and Greenspan, on a quest to bring back the IMF-ring (the one to rule them all!) from Mount Beijing where centuries ago it was thrown away by some stupid fucktards without an economics phd, who obvously new zilch about economy. I bet Jim Cramer would be a wonderful director for this flick.
Fraudo & Bimbo
..classic
"My reading of history convinces me that most bad government results from too much government." - Thomas Jefferson
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