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Too Much Alcohol
My very expensive Stihl “climbers” chainsaw won’t start. I yanked on it
till my arm hurt and then threw it in the back of the truck. I toss in
(the also expensive) back-pack blower that won’t start either. I go to
the repair place. The guy in the back, behind the grease-stained counter
has a grizzled look to him. He’s about 5’2”, 200 pounds, no hair to
speak of and chewing an old, unlit cigar. He looks at me and my handful
of machines and says, “What’s the matter, you can’t start em?”
I take this the wrong way and respond, “I’ve been starting these things for years. It ain’t me. It’s the damn machines!”
He eyes me and says, “Your problem is alcohol”.
Being pissed to begin with as a result of the sore arm, busted machines
and wasted time this took me over the top and I snapped back, “My drinking has nothing do with the fucking machines!”
He takes a second, grins, and comes back with, “No, I meant the alcohol in the gas. That’s why the motors won’t start. I see a dozen just like em every week”.
So I shuffle and back-peddle a bit and listen while this guy explains to
me that when alcohol exceeds 10% of regular gas it dissolves plastic
engine parts. Things like fuel-lines or float gaskets in the carburetor.
When the mixture is too rich the engine burns hot and wears out the
rings. He explains that the legal limit is 10% but that all the fuel
distributors cheat and mix in some extra alcohol so they can make a
buck. When the mix gets to 15% it’s toxic for two cycle engines. And
that is what killed my machines. He pulls off the gas line and shows me
that it has deteriorated to the point where it has fused shut.
Armed with this new found underground information I go online to see if
anyone else knows about this. Sure enough, it is all over the web. But
what gave me a laugh was this article today: (Bloomberg link)
Carmakers, Engine Makers Challenge Rule Allowing 15% Ethanol in Gas
The premature introduction of mid-level ethanol blends (as a general purpose fuel) could result in unintended adverse impacts on the 250 million Americans who own and operate over 400 million motor vehicles, motorcycles, lawnmowers, chainsaws, recreational boats, ATVs, etc.
The EPA granted a request from ethanol producers, including Decatur, Illinois-based Archer Daniels Midland Co., to increase concentrations of the corn-based fuel additive in gasoline
This bit spells out the problem with alcohol and gas. The EPA has now
proposed that all gas contain 15%. They want the subsidies for ethanol
to be expanded. Along the way they are going to shorten the life of all
the engines we use. Progress? Stupidity??
I’m thinking to myself that if the guy behind the greasy counter knows
this, why don’t the bright folks in D.C.? Or do they know it and
understand it, but they are doing it anyway because they have an axe to
grind? Either way, it’s a sorry state of affairs.
By the way, the repairs cost me 175 bucks.
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as a mechanic, i can assure you ,you are only touching on the problems associated with alcohol in gas. take a look at all that now very brittle plastic on your cars engine. not to mention recalls galore for buckling plastic fuel tanks(see chrysler recall lists). stabil works great for storage, and seafoam(sold at napa) is the absolute best cleaner you can run. mixed with gas it is what is run in injector cleaning systems. use it to clean throttle bores, or run it in a halfull fuel tank to clean top end of your motor. no ones heard of this stuff for the most part, so i had to chime in. carbeurators verge on being magic, so you gotta keep em clean...add an ounce or two once a year to your carbed two stroke fuel tanks to preserve them. of course, i'd like to see all that loud ass, high emission lawn equipment banned, but thats another story entirely. along with lawn fertilizer,pesticides,and personal size round up gallons of portable poison non-epa standard home application,dont have a respirator, didnt read the instructions, weed killer formulas.......but i digress,regress, and egress
Dupe.
I was wondering how a kid could write. like. that.
~
the salient point here is that BK appears to do his own lawn maintenance and for some reason I had the impression BK resided in an upscale hood where a resident would not be caugh dead trimming their own hedge
I hate mowing lawns. I farm that out. But every other thing is on my list. I like manual labor, always have. I am 60 years old and can work with a chainsaw for three loads of gas. Then I pass out....
The gas lines are fused shut because the alchahol has eaten them. It's tough to be a chainsaw masacre'er these days.
Earl's prolite 350 is good hose.
Here in SE PA - hit the Sunoco for gas for your mower, the Wawa for coffee, not the other way around.
lol, it is the holyalk Bruce.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TaHMG_SvUkw&list=MLGxdCwVVULXdndRFIl3aTEzPCzclsdGNk
&playnext=3
and my fav, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DrBLqp-s__o&feature=BF&list=MLGxdCwVVULXdndRFIl3aTEzPCzclsdGNk&index=40
lyrics; http://www.lyricsfreak.com/p/pogues/if+i+should+fall+from+grace+with+god_20109732.html
Ethanol is the most f'd up thing to ever hit the auto/marine industry! I own a boat, a really nice boat that has twin 502 Magnums. Yes, that's 502 cubic inches, good old Detroit iron!
Long and short is that when I took delivery of my water princess, I made the collosal mistake of filling up on land while the boat was being transported. I figured (in '07) with fuel at 4.95 per gallon at the marinas, I'd save a buck per gallon and fill up on the way in. 200 gallons, easy math is $200 in savings right?!
Much to my dismay, it f'd with my boat for an entire season. Had to chang out fuel strainers more than once. Had to add tons, and I mean tons of fuel stabilizers i.e. sea foam. And had several, can't count, vapor lock issues. It's really nice when you have your 4 kids and wife out for a day on the water and then the boat won't start.
Ethanol has been dead long before it became an idea. It doesn't work! Period..end of story and any politician that supports subsidizing Ethanol should be fired.
Wow! You poor Americans are being fleeced through bad legislation that sounds a delibrate ploy by the big oil barrons! I have two Volvo pentas about the same cubic as yours and in 8 years no problems with ethonol! Over here the law was changed in the early 90's for all new cars, boats chainsaws etc and other machinery had to be fitted with the new super higher resitant rubber and plastics for use with ethonol! I did some checking and all new cars etc sold in the States are sold with old fashioned ruber and plastic NOT restant to ethonal decay! Yet all cars for export are! LOL. You are all being fleeced by your own lobbying system! The oil barrons don't want you to change to ethonol so make it look bad. Oh and one other thing from just ONE sea bay on the east coast of the USA from the organic matter waste in there,it could fuel the entire USA with all its fuel needs permantley! Who wants to breath in those toxic aromatics or have their kids breath them in to become cancerous and then on to an early death?!!
You can save money on repair bills by:
A partially filled fuel tank will manufacture water sitting through the winter. Warmer air holds moisture, when it turns cold, that air can not hold the water and it condenses and goes to the bottom of the tank. A full tank does not have air to trap the moisture—keep the tank full. Water = no start for the engine.
Try living in the Northern eastern climates without ethanol. Your gas will freeze solid because of the water in the lines, due to condensation. We use to use uspryopline or methal hydrate in a tank of gas. But now the ethanol takes care of the car issue.
The newer snow sleds have major issues with blown engines.
But hey it beats starting another "cash for klunkers" just blow them up in 50,000 miles.
The United States is a PROPOGANDA MACHINE. Find out how they plan to CENSOR the INTERNET and THREATEN AMERICAN FREEDOM.
Please watch the video “FEAR = CONTROL *Internet Censorship and Global War Looms” at (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tLwQstnk6tw).
-Anonymous
Wow, this is truly scary and absolutely real consequence of the financial collapse of 2008. What can we do to stop it??
Minor thing dude -- too much octane just wastes money.
Too little octane and it diesels -- premature detonation, a condition that'll land your motor in Therapy.
But we've got all that government subsidized ethanol to get rid of, what else are we going to do with it???
Thank you for bringing to light an important issue that isn't getting discussed.
what else are we going to do with it???
Drink it - Russia runs on it
Here in Costa Rica we have no ethanol problem. Alcohol problem is different which we may have.
My lawn mower, chain saw and weedwackers and pressure washers I got at garage sales in Minnesota. Great garage sales and thanks Minnesotans for that.
Anyway all of these I got either free or for $15.00 in the case of the chain saw.
It seems that fixing things in the USA costs more than buying something new and throwing away the old.
I had to pay local guys to tune everything up but Im still using my TORO (Minnesota company) lawn mower on its last legs and chain saw and weedwackers.
Thanks for the free things from America.
ALso the people in the USA throw away enough things that they could supply all of us down here in Central America with TVs, DVD players, Stereos, all 2 cycle things like lawn mowers, chain saws power tools and kitchen sinks, electiral outlets, switches etc.
You throw them away and we fix them and use them.
I have a 100 amp breaker box that is dated 1964 free from the USA that works perfectly.
I guess what happens is people there in the USA upgrade to 200 amp boxes, or maybe now its 300 amp or 500 amp I dont know. But they throw all of that in a landfill and meanwhile we can use it here as is.
The worlds trash heap is the USA and probably Europe as well.
The third world can live on the trash the USA throws out and dumps in landfills.
Im American by the way and proud of it but cant believe the waste.
Ho hum,
Peak oil will solve all these pasky fuel problems. Having spent on all that junk the outcome is bankruptcy.
To survive in the new 1984- ish world that is on its way, the first step is to admit the problem. The next step is 'just say no' and get rid of all unessential fuel using devices such as chain saws, weed whackers, leaf blowers, etc. The goal is to gain some return (sale to a greater fool) on useless 'assets' at a discount before events render them REALLY usless.
The next step is to get rid of the carz but let's do one step at a time, eh?
Let's see if I have this right ...We such up all the excess corn and grain production in the US to make fuel, and we suck up even more from around the world to the same end, causing corn and grain prices world wide to spike. Then we allow the poor mexican migrants to cross the border to run our garden machines because they can no longer afford tacos, tamales and burritos back home. So then the machines break because what used to be their food chews away at the little parts inside, which are made in china. So we buy more of the machines, making the chinese just a little bit richer with each trade, until our own profit margin is such that we have to insist the mexicans cut our grass like the indians did in the old british raj, at which point they rampage for equal rights to collect the dole like the rest of our poor citizens who were put out of work because it was work they would no longer do, which necessitated the importation of mexican slave labor in the first place.
Meanwhile our Congress critters and top EPA officials motor around in heavily armored cars, oblivious to the evil they have wrought, to the diesel-driven yachts of lobbyists and the likes of Warren Buffet, who makes money by selling insurance policies that help the merely rich (ca. 250k in annual income or ca. 10m in total wealth) circumvent the death tax, while his other subsidiaries profit on business brokerages that suck up all the remaining family farms that cannot sustain themselves due the death tax that he heavily lobbied for so that he could then use those same farms to grow more corn and grain for the ethanol monster for which he also lobbied.
Yep, makes perfect sense to me.
SeaFoam is a carburator cleaning product. Neighbor is a handy-man turned me on to it as a better alternative to Sta-bil, will keep gas good up to 2 years. As another poster mentioned good to run the gas to out when storing. If the machine has a shut off valve at the gas tank you can just shut the line off and run the engine till it drains. The ethonol eats the plastic fuel line when it sits for extended periods of time. Then when you fire it up the disolved plastic heads for the carburator and reaks all kinds of havoc. This is real common in snow blowers.
No need to drain and replace fuel after each use of any outdoor equipment.
1.) As mentioned purchase premium fuel (91 octane or higher) for all two and four cycle small engines.
2.) For two cycles purchase the manufactured mix for the make, (Sthil saw, Sthil mix).
3.) When storing outdoor equipment for periods greater than 3 months, drain excess fuel and run engine until remaining fuel is spent.
4.) Stabil is fine product as is Seafoam and any Lucas brand fuel additive.
The afore mentioned items will not insure eternal small engine bliss; but will help to extend service life.
Well thanks for that lesson. I feel like a rat in a maze. Every day there is a new obstical put in front of us by an invisible hand. We get creative and find solutions like your 1-4.
But why the fuck do I need seafoam? What the fuck is Seafoam? Seafoam is a response to stupid regulations that gum up your engine. I don't want a gummed up engine or seafoam.
"I don't want a gummed up engine or seafoam."
The price of freedom is eternal vigilance...you'll need the proper arms to combat that which conspires against you ;-)
Rockford's tellin you straight.
I have a portable generator (Honda) for emergencies (Fla./hurricanes/power companies saving money by not trimming trees along lines etc.) and it's dry as a bone...has been for two years.
The rider mower (Husqvarna) I put Stabil in even though I use it throughout the year...blow leaves off into the woods with it in the winter which also keeps the battery charged.
The tractor (Branson) I also put Stabil in it. More importantly than that for the tractor, is to keep it filled with deisel during the cold months. The fuel gets super cold, then when a warming trend comes through (and you only have a quarter-half a tank you will get condensation inside the tank...the water will get into your injectors and fuel filter...some have said it will even grow mold in the tank. I don't use it much during winter but I'll fire it off and let it idle while I blow the leaves or use it to push a fallen tree out of the way. Deisels need to be used often...I should use mine more than I do.
He's still wrong about the high octane. High octane usually has more alchahol in it because any alchahol is going to run in the 100 plus range of rating so mix it with the worse gasoline and you get 91 93 octane.
When they refine oil they just cook it. They do various stages of temperature and capture then recondense it. The high octane gasoline is supposed to be regular gasoline that is processed. You take 87 octane and cook it under temperature AND pressure to break the long chain hydrocarbons to raise the octane called cracking. Every barrel of oil depending on it's makeup has some deisel, gasoline, heating oil, lubricants ect etc. You can get to the gasoline first. So supply says you can cook 100 barrels of oil and get say 46 barrels of gasoline. Then store 54 barrels for later processing. Which is why gasoline prices will act so weird during this thing. The manufacturing is never coming back. Ever. So before it's all over you are going to be looking at some very expensive deisel and heating oil and lubricants because they are eventually going to have to cook millions of barrels of partially processed to get to the lubricants and heating oil. And a good bunch of the deisel is going to get wasted because the trucking and shipping industry won't be there to suck it up. So lubricants will get super short in supply and go through roof and then they will be forced to process and since lubricants are the most stable and storable it will glut supply and prices will plumet. But that leaves millions of barrels of deisel that will go through similar volatility. Going up because it's not being supplied and then plummeting as they cook tons of the partially processed oil. But then going back up as it goes bad in storage.
an expensive solution is to run down to the airport and fill a five gallon with 100LL no alcohol in that fuel. Will work fine in 2 cycle engines, might get some lead build up in ring grooves perhaps. I ran it in my rotary Mazda for years, worked great.
End government. We've had infinitely too much already.
Bruce,
FWIW the ethanol makes them run too lean rather than too rich. The volume of fuel that goes through the main jet of the carburetor is the same on either fuel, but the alcohol has lower energy so it is a lean mixture, thus causing the engine to run too hot. I am sure that it is a pain to re-jet, or use a narrower needle if that is the case. Either way it does nothing for the corrosion and destruction of the fuel system components.
Aha! Now I understand. My engine is running hot. It is being cooked. Great.
So does this mean after every single use of the snow blower - or weed wacker or whatever - we need to dump the remaining gas/oil mix out?
I've never drained my snowblower in 3 years. Starts up every time. I start it once in the summer and let it run for 5 minutes. I start in once in the fall, same drill.
Awesome.
I did that once when my kids were real little and had all their shit spread all over the yard and my boss was coming over for drinks and I asked them to pick the shit up and when they didn't, I got out the snow blower and ran all the toys, pets and shit through it. Little fuckers never left the yard messy again. I never was let back in the same office again either. Nor the same house after the restraining order, but that's another story for another time.
The snow blower started fine. The blades were alittle fucked up, but what to expect, eh? I mean those old Schwins were Built!
Nice post knukles. Whoever junked you probably does not have kids ;)
Interesting quandry. I drive a 2001 Honda Prelude which the manf. absolutely insists that the car be run on premium because of the 10.5- 1 compression. While that takes care of the alcohol content thingie--. Guess it's time to look at some additive for the injectors. Always some $%#$@ thing. Milestones
BassTurds, messin with my saws.................
Most new 2 cycle engine motors come with a large warning label on the machine that says "beware high ethanol gas". It's a real b*tch to deal with, because I have to drive across town to find a gas station that actually sells pure stuff, not the ethanol blend.
Consider yourself lucky it's just a drive across town.
In Pennsylvania, it went from "across town" to "the next town over" to "the nearest metro area" to impossible in the span of a year.
Brilliant! should have been included in the post on the unintended consequences of US central planning!
My dad owns a mechanic shop and it seems like he changes A SHITLOAD of fuel pumps. Actually just changed another one today. Hey just like all that matters is the velocity of money right? If they remove the store of value in the currency all that matters is Volume of transactions so money gets cheaper and so do the products.
A big THANK YOU Bruce. I've got $1,400 in a couple of Stihl's...nice to know I can keep them running after the grid goes down..........
The grid?
WTF has the grid got to do with alcohol, ethanol, toxic shock syndrome, marine stabilizer, aromatics, crank and carburetors?
BUY A SAW ...... while they are still legal for safety reasons.
This increase is the EPA's contribution to juicing the economy.
Some level of the population got have these machines running, so early damage creates more spending on parts and repairs, or in many cases a new machine when the owner gets pissed and throws it in the trash can.
use marine stabil. Takes the alcohol out.
Produced by the same guys that put the alcohol in?
Messy garage says a lot about its owner
disorganized lazy ass comes to mind
Disorganized lazy ass paranoid crankhead felony rape bail jumper comes to mind
Too busy actually working to worry about cosmetics comes to mind.
No big deal... Make sure you burn all the fuel in the carb before you shut the damn things off... ( usually a fuel shut off valve you can close and let it finish burning the fuel in the carb), this will keep the needles and seats etc..from getting gummed up.