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Top Counter-Terrorism Experts: Indefinite Detention Will INCREASE Terrorism
Former counter-terrorism czar Richard A. Clarke wrote in May 2009 that America's indefinite detention without trial is a leading Al Qaeda recruiting tool:
On
detention, the Bush team leaped to the assumption that U.S. courts and
prisons would not work. Before the terrorist attacks, the U.S.
counterterrorism program of the 1990s had arrested al-Qaeda terrorists
and others around the world and had a 100 percent conviction rate in the
U.S. justice system. Yet the American system was abandoned, again as
part of a pattern of immediately adopting the most extreme response
available. Camps were established
around the world, notably in Guantanamo Bay, where prisoners were held
without being charged or tried. They became symbols of American
overreach, held up as proof that al-Qaeda's anti-American propaganda
was right.
The same month, I interviewed one of the world's leading experts on terror - Terrell (Terry) E. Arnold, and Arnold agreed with Clarke:
WB:
I'm interested in your views on whether releasing the photos of the
"harsh interrogation" would create a wave of anti-American sentiment,
and whether the additional risk it is alleged to create to our troops is
justified?Terry Arnold: I think the chances are pretty good that such pictures will increase the anger, but I fear that the real damage already has been done by:
(a) keeping hundreds of young men in confinement without trial;
(b) having it known by various channels that they were tortured, and
(c) reports
that the Americans intend to keep many of these young people in
confinement for the indefinite future because their captors are afraid
to let them go.***
(Arnold's statement is particularly relevant since Obama is considering indefinitely detaining the Guantanamo detainees without a real trial under the U.S. justice system)
Monday, Obama did sign an executive order creating an indefinite detention system for prisoners at Guantanamo.
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This seems to be a little bit of a hornets nest issue but I'll stick my foot in anyway.
If you do these types of things you should expect a negative consequence.
For every action there is an equal and opposite reaction.
Wanted: terrorists, to scare the U.S. people. Foiled plots are necessary for more war, for the march to fascism.
GW, bullsh*t. Gitmo is not a big recruiting tool for Al Qaeda. If you analyze messages from key leaders, it is very rarely mentioned. Gitmo is mostly a cause celebre for the anti-anti-terror left. Since the people that have been released have shown a high propensity toward returning to jihad, do you have an alternate proposal? We could let them loose in your hometown, or perhaps we should do what FDR did... shoot them.
"Since the people that have been released have shown a high propensity toward returning to jihad, do you have an alternate proposal? We could let them loose in your hometown,..."
Surprisingly enough I live in one of those places where we would be glad to take them...anytime between Jan-Oct ;-)
GW ! I appreciate your passion for justice but there is one, and ONLY ONE thing that will stop the terrorism. That is for every last one of us to kneel down on a prayer rug, face Mecca, and BOW!
Lol, Mecca is where the US's main surrogates reign supreme..For...sixty years of loyal services...to the God of Oil and US interests.
That's part of GWs misunderstanding. He thinks they hate us for supporting their oppressive rulers. The truth is, they hate their oppressive rulers for not treating us like the dhimmis we are.
The thing that created more terrorists was the Dhimmi submission and encouragement from the socialist democrats in congress and the election of Barack Obama. Obama was a big fat green light for every terrorist and despot on the planet and the biggest recruiting tool possible. We were safe in America until Obama took over the White House --- but, wait a minute, I thought we were supposed to be safer with all his bowing!
After 9-11 no American died on American soil and threats were taken seriously. But immediately after Obama was inaugurated things changed fast:
--5 weeks after Obama election Dec 14, 2008 Sarah Palin's church was firebombed with people inside*
--Two Americans shot, one killed, in Arkansas by Islamic terrorists, the first since 9-11
--RNC convention, MN, 2 arrested red-handed, convicted for trying to firebomb GOP delegates with crude napalm anti-personnel devices
--Obama administration and DHS say muslims not a threat, targets Ron Paul supporters and military veterans.
--within 40 days of Obama taking office the Taliban march to within 50 miles of the capital of Pakistan.
--Radicals go to Venezuela, are aided and supported by Hugo Chavez to return and take up arms against the USA
--Chavez seeks, receives help from Russia and Iran, buys arms, Russian ships dock in South America first time
--June 2009, radicals firebomb the historic Governor's Mansion of Texas, building gutted.
--American Afghan casualties skyrocket, more were killed in Obama's first year than all previous years combined
--People dying in the streets in Iran Green revolution, Obama and his socialist democrats are silent.
--Obama backed the failed marxist takeover of Honduras, with help from Hugo Chavez, over their Constitutional Republic, by the Honduran marxist, Manuel Zelaya.
--North Korea starts firing long range nuclear capable missiles over Japan and underground nuke testing
--Two American journalists taken hostage by North Korea, demand Bill Clinton come get them
--14 people killed, 24 wounded at Ft Hood, more Americans killed on US soil
--Underwear bomber on Dec 24, 2009, stopped by citizens
--Marxist flies light aircraft into Austin,Texas IRS building, leaves commie rant/manifesto
--Ft Dix terrorist plotters caught, turned in by citizen tip
--Times square bomber 2010, had just became naturalized year before
--Syrian army goes back into Lebanon; they had withdrawn back to Syria under Bush
--Radicalized terrorist arrested for making death threats to TV show "SouthPark" creators
--Death threat made to "Draw Mohammed Day" creator who goes into hiding
--The Portland, Oregon Islamic terrorist Christmas bomber foiled, bomb doesn't go off, Dec. 2010
--Islamic Terrorist, from Kosovo, March 2011 kills two Airmen and bus driver in Germany
GW: Are you terminally uninformed? Put things in perspective or get a rabies shot for your foaming at the mouth irrational hatred.
Do you not even know there is wholesale genocide, torture, rape, and slavery going on in muslim countries against non-muslims right now? And, it's not random, they see it as their duty under Sharia Law to do such things. There are over 1 million Southern Sudanese missing from the planet right now because of muslim genocide. Don't you care? What do you think is going to happen to non-muslims in the next few months in the MENA? Are you still going to be ranting about 3 mass murderers water boarded 8 years ago?
Gitmo is significant because we have a Gitmo. Your genocider buddies don't have one becasue they don't take prisoners. Don't cry over people who don't cry over you.
*I knew you'd say that about Palin! But if they'll do it to high profile person like Palin and disappear it from the news, they won't hesitate to do it to you, either.
I think the biggest hole in the wall hide-out of moslem terrorists in the USA are in those unfathomable places of deep shit inside your bowels. You must have more terrorists up your rectum than ex-SS stalwarts hidden in Stroessner's Paraguay. It's a remarkable dream that the average american does not understand : who created the american scream of Taliban jihadist. It was the CIA and their Pakistani surrogate Zia ul Haq, president and creator of ISI secret service. Under the benign blessing of head "spook" Casey. Feal brass-plated general, military puppet, like Pinochet in Chile, in the service of american interests until he disappeared in a military plane crash... Unexplained up to today, like a lot of third world expendable leaders, convenient "rub offs". Learn your history Gwar5....
Lost all respect for Lady Gag there.
Lately all govs are using terrorism including and probably most of all the US. If you want to understand US-Russia relations, place all info on relevant diplomacy (in MSM and otherwise) as context for the "terrorist" bombings in Moscow.
Remember their spy looking for info on gold? The same day that the airport bombing occurred, the BoR said it was buying 100 tons of gold/year from "internal producers". There's more but too lazy.....
The point is that all these elites you seem to be cheering for by spouting their bs are all war criminals and guilty of the most horrendous crimes against humanity and not for "national security" but for indecent lust for powet. Out of control, power mad criminals.
Whistleblowers get "suicided", why can't terrorists? It would certainly save taxpayer money.
I think the powers that be have found an even more economic solution : they are going to suicide the middle class ....of tax payers...much more sensible. Archimedes's lever in full flow. That's efficiency and expediency...wouldn't you say?? Who cares about morality!!...As you so rightly point out with your final solution for "whistleblowers' and "terrorists" alike.
who has killed more people?
A) the terrorists
B)the US
C)the US is/are the terrorists
even pretending the official story of 9/11 is true(NOT), you are no longer right when you kill 1,000,00 people to avenge 3000, while lossing another 7,000 of your own
ZHer's are number crunchers....crunch that
every attack by terrorists world wide in the entire history of man does not equal the number of human beings we have killed in iraq alone
unfortunately we have long since lost the moral high ground
"even pretending the official story of 9/11 is true(NOT), you are no longer right when you kill 1,000,00 people to avenge 3000, while lossing another 7,000 of your own"
Ummm...what?
You gonna give me some reliable data or are you just gonna plant another IED and walk away?
I thought so.
You have a better chance of getting hit by lightning than being killed in a terrorist attack. I don't see a multi-billion dollar war on lightning strikes.
I don't know what other people will do. All I can think is if anybody snatched my one person in the world I care about and said they were never letting them go I'd get even and some extra.
lol, in that order...its too much to ask for more...
Peace Nobel prize...
I love how Obama got a peace prize while getting ready to increase troop levels.
More troops = more peace?
Governments neew make sure they have employement,thats why historically worthless people claim to manage lifes of others who's worthyness was much high,however speculative greed allways was a reason why governments succeded,as soon as our greed becoming to the means we justified wit nature and God ,no governments can show us what to do,opposite,the continued agression and policies by government are leading indicators of expending Gwantenamo world wide,staff for laboratories prepaired to build new biological weapons upon Biotechnology firms ruling in Private prisons across USA,people should come back to Creator,ask him justice and pray for saving their souls,but most importent is also that your everyday things would not go into contradiction with your prays to God.
You can cut off you greedy spending and this will kill corporations,they will come on their knees to please you to chose what would you preffer to buy
How united we are people,Presodent Carter said that we became people measuring each other by what one has and not by what one is,so,corporations disliked him,JF Kennedy wanted abolish the FED ,so,he was killed by his driver-look documentary http://cotocrew.wordpress.com/ ,but you are who posting here is doomed,because i counted over 50posts and asked to vote for FED existence in my blog:
http://trendybull777.blog.com/2011/02/21/hello-world/
But it was just 3 brave people to respond,which meaning that all of you is sartisfied with current environment and you probably forgot that today Jasmin reolutions based on internet first by FED elite to screw nations,I calling for thoose who wish FED abolished to vote or to leave comments at least,the thing which is world lags today is trust between us!!!
Go and vote,World should not affaid of monster eating into our wealth on everyday basic,untill you are contrarians would be united-there would be Guantenamo all world around
GW, I'll say this for you, you create debate. In that you are Socrates's son! In itself, an inestimable place to be before the people of your country. It merits mention in all humility.
The quality of debate depends on the subject debated and the excellence of protagonists. I hope you achieve what you seek, time and time again : revive the critical esprit of the american citizen. It is the nation's most precious inheritance. Something we take for granted like popcorn, like the pursuit of... A grave error...it's always the most evident mistake that everybody overlooks...like thinking due diligence in America's heart and home : its capitalist system, is inviolate. Ask the GS squid for spin on that dogma...Like assuming that republican Rome, tempered in the blood of its first heroic generation, Horatio on the bridge, could NEVER father a valiant, talented son who would cross... the Rubicon...destroy the Republic, beacon of new civilization until then.
That's what makes nations fall into oblivion, in spite of immediate glory, but subsequent decadence of magnitudes unimaginable. This hubris. We see it in the current powers to be. Benbernankifaction... like Rome burning under Nero...it's latest quirk of certitude in imperial quest of the impossible. Ben, remember Teutoburg forest, where Rome lost it's legions and sacred emblems, like the USD of today and its sacred green back. The sons of new Rome now serfs condemned to become the matter which is the same as it's original sons...the last of the Mohicans, the Mohawks et al. The "imperial squid" now needs to feed on their blood, the gullible, manipulable middle class. The new Black foot or Cheyenne.
I hope the penny drops. Tom Paine's not so far away. Unless its Rambo who is the new Avatar, of the imperial, ephemeral american idol...then it's good bye...as the sun, the torch, moves to another horizon. "Once the finger has writ, it moves on...
GWOT is about the security complex keeping its place at the trough in a world where the cold war scare was receding and profit outlooks were fading. Nothing more.
Dr. Porkchop, <ssssshhh> we don't say GWOT any more, don'tcha know.
And besides, we kinda' like the trough.
- Ned
I can't keep up with the new terminology. I must be getting old. I should just retire to the front porch and concentrate on yelling at children who come close to my lawn. ;)
'Global War On Terror' Is Given New Name
"Overseas Contingency Operations"
Babelfish translation...
Overt Genocidal Crusade
George Orwell didn't even come close when imagining the kind of "double-speak" shit they spin out today.
DP, I applaud you for another actually original post. Positive vibes for u to continue. p'raps we can converse?
Well, actually, he did anticipate. For instance (since I need to translate "e.g." into "Canuck" ;-O)
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/03/24/AR200903...
But you can find more. Might actually require a bit of work on your part, probably able to hit that around 14:00 local or so.
And You Can Find More Info if You Search for 'JCS Long War' and do a bit of background checking.
but, on balance, good on y'a.
- Ned
War On Terror = Wars OF Terror
Dating back to the founding of the USSA.
1802:
One of America's most prolific merchants of death and long-lived pillars of the American ruling class, the Dupont family, after having escaped from revolutionary France with a vast stolen fortune, establishes a gunpowder manufacturing business in Delaware with the assistance of Napoleon Bonaparte.
As is the way with the ruling class, it's all very cozy.
The Duponts help negotiate the Louisiana Purchase of about a million square miles from France, which makes the some of the genocidial and slave owning founding fathers very, very wealthy.
The Duponts' arms biz gets a real shot in the arm when slave-owner and ethnic cleanser, and often quoted, President Thomas Jefferson, places massive federal gunpowder orders with his buddies, the Duponts.
It's the beginning of a long and loving relationship. The Duponts will provide gonzo killing power for every American war to the present day.
Hey, it's just good business and better living and, for many, dying, through chemistry.
Wars OF Terror...a great ameriKlan tradition!
I'll look up where u got this tomorrow. Gotta do some work for my paying job.
I thought you were making actual progress in expressing your OWN knowledge and opinions.
- Ned
Hey! You kids!
Don't worry, Dr. It takes a lot of time to keep up on things.
'Global War On Terror' Is Given New NameAll you need is a good glass of cider or rum and you'll be tip top to sing ...yo ho ho and it's long john silver to treasure island... like the rest of us!
Another example that people don't want to deal with reality.
Imagine instead of some "Middle Eastern looking person" (whatever the hell that means), you, a friend or a loved one is picked up and held indefinately. Nobody knows where you are. It's "classified", so no one can tell you without going to jail. You're tortured, you'll get PTSD. Also, there's a high chance you'll go insane from it.
If you're lucky to get out alive, what kind of life do you have then? 10% of the Stateside population has some form of PTSD. No politician has ever said this is a "national security threat"? Why isn't a threat to the health of your population a threat?
Not all but many trauma therapists don't take health coverage. Many don't do sliding scale fee treatment. If you're a civilian, what do you do then? Since nobody's holding Obama accountable for continuing to use torture, this shows that maybe not a lot of people will either care or help you.
Many reuptable trauma therapists say that PTSD never completely goes away.
I agree. Military tribunal. Then hang them if found guilty. Or prison. But to hold them indefinitely, why that is un American.
There's more than a little supposition here as usual.
Two facts however are:
1) Indefinite detention puts an end to terrorist activities committed by those being detained.
2) Definite detention (former detainees who have since been set free from places like Guantanamo) have a very high recidivism rate (20+% most recent figures I saw).
That's assuming the people rounded up and tossed in there are terrorists and not just people caught up in body count quotas.
Correct ... many of those tortured were mainly innocent farmers, villagers, or those against whom neighbors held a grudge. Indeed, people received a nice cash reward from the U.S. government for turning people in as "suspected terrorists" (and see this movie).
What strikes me is how laughably out of place the 'us vs. them' narrative is in a place like Afghanistan. A father could have one son working with coalition forces, and another in the Taliban. The place is so full of contradictions, complexities, loyalties, betrayals etc., that a whole army of CIA analysts would never figure it out in a thousand years.
If they're all so damned innocent how come we can't pay any country to take them off our hands?
It's your mess! You go clean it up yourself!!
And, as one might expect, the town of Northampton, MA has graciously extended the hand of friendship for "cleared" detainees to come live in "Happy Valley."
http://www.nogitmos.org/pioneervalleynomoreguantanamos
- Ned
Arabs in Lesbian-topia. Just think of the reality show potential!
I'm still chudkling just thinking about the "kinder-gentler" treatment in store for the proponents ;-)
The town of Hardin, Montana requested that 100 Gitmo detainees be sent to its empty prison, and Congressman Jim Moran said that detainees could be tried in his Alexandria, Virginia district. So there was willingness by Americans to hold the Guantanamo inmates here.
Shit, they're just looking for a government contract. They'd open up a hubcap museum if there was federal money involved too.
Here's the answer: Detainee-Backed Securities (DBS).
The U.S. will make bi-annual payments to holders of each DBS. Each DBS will contain 20-30 Guantanamo detainees. Each detainee will be rated by an international, UN approved body in terms of their potential threat to the general public.
A DBS with a higher weighted average threat level will have a lower rating but higher coupon.
Every nation who bellyaches about Guantanamo will have an opportunity to put their risk profile where their mouth is...and make some good money if they are as right as they think they are.
A win-win.
You're welcome.
Let us know if you get through to Clarke for comment.
But they want more terrorists. Same with the War on Drugs, terror alert, airport scans and activities. They only appear to not make sense when you look at them from our point of view.
If the point is to maintain hostilities to support the weapons industry, it all works quite well.
Exactly!!
If the point is to justify a fascist dictatorship and remove the few remnants of the Constitution and the Republic that we have left, then that is exactly what you do.
You create an environment of fear where the people willingly give their freedoms away ... It is what Hitler did. It is what the Bush-Clinton-Bush-Obama administration has done.... We are only lead to believe that we are getting change with every new president, but they are simply picking up from the last.
Very shrewd and correct. Once you view "government" as class warfare by the MIC/WallSt/C!A (remember the OSS? Oh so social was the sayibg) banksters it all makes sense.
Always keep in mind the head bankster (Rockefucker) is ALWAYS ranting about OVERPOPULATION at "respectable" fora.
Dude...I am left to skip by your whiny nonsense. The conspiracy nonsense is such an overreach that you can not consider for one moment that any one thing that occurs in geo politics etc...could even be spontaneous.
The premise of your world view is so effeminate and irritating. The fact that you think terror prisons make for more terrorists etc...shows you have no understanding of what truly motivates people. What is great for you is there is no ends to your ranting..just gotcha pycho babble...whereby you are clever enough to sit and blab from the cheap seats, without ever having to actually consider there are real consequences to living and making decisions.
I am all for speech and questioning, but this idea that you can build a world view one conspiracy built upon another...with a flippant "I hate my parents" pussy attitude just is so played out.
There is no doubt that the world is an effed up place and our leadership..left and right is corrupt and disheartening, but rather than beat that horse and cry about what is wrong...lets take a step back and identify the commonalities that 70 to 80% of us share and grow that dialogue in a stoic fashion...as opposed to the fly off the handle reactions to everything. I am tired and said far too much.....But man I a have GW fatigue...
If someone invades your country, replaces your leadership, takes your resources and essentially tells you what to do "or else", how would you react?
If your son is taken and held in indefinite detention and you know that he is being frequently tortured, what are your likely actions?
Maybe you cower in the corner and do nothing.
I would engage in asymmetric warfare.Freedom fighter to me, terrorist to the occupier.