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Trading Of Over The Counter Gold And Silver To Be Illegal Beginning July 15

Tyler Durden's picture




 

One small step toward Executive Order 6102 part 2, and one giant leap for corruptcongressmankind.

From: FOREX.com <info@forex.com>
Date: Fri, Jun 17, 2011 at 6:11 PM
Subject: Important Account Notice Re: Metals Trading
To: xxx

Important Account Notice Re: Metals Trading

           
We wanted to make you aware of some upcoming changes to FOREX.com’s product offering. As a result of the Dodd-Frank Act enacted by US Congress, a new regulation prohibiting US residents from trading over the counter precious metals, including gold and silver, will go into effect on Friday, July 15, 2011.

In conjunction with this new regulation, FOREX.com must discontinue metals trading for US residents on Friday, July 15, 2011 at the close of trading at 5pm ET. As a result, all open metals positions must be closed by July 15, 2011 at 5pm ET.

We encourage you to wind down your trading activity in these products over the next month in anticipation of the new rule, as any open XAU or XAG positions that remain open prior to July 15, 2011 at approximately 5:00 pm ET will be automatically liquidated.

We sincerely regret any inconvenience complying with the new U.S. regulation may cause you. Should you have any questions, please feel free to contact our customer service team.

Sincerely,
The Team at FOREX.com      

So far we have only received this warning from Forex.com. We are waiting to see which other dealers inform their customers that trading gold and silver over the counter will soon be illegal.

It appears that Forex.com's interpretation of the law stems primarily from Section 742(a) of the Dodd-Frank act which "prohibits any person [which again includes
companies]from entering into, or offering to enter into, a transaction
in any commodity with a person that is not an eligible contract
participant or an eligible commercial entity, on a leveraged or margined
basis."

Some prehistory from Hedge Fund Law Blog:

The Dodd-Frank Wall Street Reform and Consumer Protection Act
(“Act”) has changed a number of laws in all of the securities acts
including the Commodity Exchange Act.  Two specific changes deal with
certain transactions in commodities on the spot market.  Specifically,
Section 742 of the Act deals with retail commodity transactions.  In
this section, the text of the Commodity Exchange Act is amended to
include new Section 2(c)(2)(D) (dealing with retail commodity
transactions) and new Section 2(c)(2)(E) (prohibiting trading in spot
forex with retail investors unless the trader is subject to regulations
by a Federal regulatory agency, i.e. CFTC, SEC, etc.).  According to a congressional rulemaking spreadsheet, these are effective 180 days from the date of enactment.

We provide an overview of the new sections and have reprinted them in full below.

New CEA Section 2(c)(2)(D) – Concerning Spot Commodities (Metals)

The central import of new CEA Section 2(c)(2)(D) is to broaden the
CFTC’s power with respect to retail commodity transactions.  Essentially
any spot commodities transaction (i.e. spot metals) will be subject to
CFTC jurisdiction and rulemaking authority.  There is an exemption for
commodities which are actually delivered within 28 days.  While the CFTC
wanted an exemption in which commodities would need to be delivered
within 2 days, various coin collectors were able to lobby congress for a
longer delivery period (see here).

It is likely we will see the CFTC propose regulations under this new
section and we will keep you updated on any regulatory pronouncements
with respect to this new section.

New CEA Section 2(c)(2)(E) – Concerning Spot Forex

The central import of new CEA Section 2(c)(2)(E) is to regulate the
spot forex markets.  While the section requires the CFTC to finalize
regulations with respect to spot forex (which were proposed earlier in
January), it also, interestingly, provides  oversight of the markets to
other federal regulatory agencies such as the CFTC.  This means that in
the future, different market participants may be subject to different
regulatory regimes with respect to trading in same underlying
instruments.  A Wall Street Journal article
discusses the impact of this with respect to firms which engage in
other activities in addition to retail forex transactions.  The CFTC’s
proposed rules establish certain compliance parameters for retail forex
transactions, requires registration of retail forex managers and requires such managers to pass a new regulatory exam called the Series 34 exam.
 We do not yet know whether the other regulatory agencies will adopt
rules similar to the CFTC or if they will write rules from scratch.

Next, from Henderson & Lyman:

The prohibition of Section 742(a) does not apply, however, if such a
transaction results in actual delivery within 28 days, or creates an
enforceable obligation to deliver between a seller and a buyer that have
the ability to deliver, and accept delivery of, the commodity in
connection with their lines of business. This may be problematic as in
most spot metals trading virtually all contracts fail to meet these
requirements. As a result, although the courts’ interpretation of
Section 742(a) is unknown, Section 742(a) is likely to have a
significantly negative impact on the OTC cash precious metals industry.
Here too, it is essential that those who offer to be a counterparty to
OTC metals transactions seek professional help to discuss possible
operational and regulatory contingency plans.

The actual rule language exempts a transaction if it "results in actual delivery within 28 days or such other longer period as the Commission may determine by rule or regulation based upon the typical commercial practice in cash or spot markets for the commodity involved;" Alas, the commission has decided not to intervene and keep the exemption status window so small as to affect virtually all exchanges which transact in the gold and silver spot market.

More here:

Elimination of OTC Forex

Effective 90 days
from its inception, the Dodd-Frank Act bans most retail OTC forex
transactions. Section 742(c) of the Act states as follows:

…A person [which includes companies]
shall not offer to, or enter into with, a person that is not an
eligible contract participant, any agreement, contract, or transaction
in foreign currency except pursuant to a rule or regulation of a Federal
regulatory agency allowing the agreement, contract, or transaction
under such terms and conditions as the Federal regulatory agency shall
prescribe…

This provision will not come
into effect, however, if the CFTC or another eligible federal body
issues guidelines relating to the regulation of foreign currency within
90 days of its enactment. Registrants and the public are currently being
encouraged by the CFTC to provide insight into how the Act should be
enforced. See CFTC Rulemakings regarding OTC Derivatives located at the following website address,
under Section XX – Foreign Currency (Retail Off Exchange). It is
essential that OTC forex participants seek professional help to discuss
possible operational and regulatory contingency plans.

Elimination of OTC Metals

As
for OTC precious metals such as gold or silver, Section 742(a) of the
Act prohibits any person [which again includes companies]from entering
into, or offering to enter into, a transaction in any commodity with a
person that is not an eligible contract participant or an eligible
commercial entity, on a leveraged or margined basis. This provision
intends to expand the narrow so called “Zelener fix” in the Farm
Bill previously ratified by congress in 2008. The Farm Bill empowered
the CFTC to pursue anti-fraud actions involving rolling spot
transactions and/or other leveraged forex transactions without the need
to prove that they are futures contracts. The Dodd-Frank Act now expands
this authority to include virtually all retail cash commodity market
products that involve leverage or margin – in other words OTC precious
metals.

The prohibition of Section 742(a) does not apply,
however, if such a transaction results in actual delivery within 28
days, or creates an enforceable obligation to deliver between a seller
and a buyer that have the ability to deliver, and accept delivery of,
the commodity in connection with their lines of business. This may be
problematic as in most spot metals trading virtually all contracts fail
to meet these requirements. As a result, although the courts’
interpretation of Section 742(a) is unknown, Section 742(a) is likely to
have a significantly negative impact on the OTC cash precious metals
industry. Here too, it is essential that those who offer to be a
counterparty to OTC metals transactions seek professional help to
discuss possible operational and regulatory contingency plans.

Small Pool Exemption Eliminated

Pursuant to Section 403 of Act, theprivateadviserexemption, namelySection 203(b)(3) of the Investment Advisers Act of 1940 (“Advisers Act”), will be eliminated within one year of the Act’s effective date (July 21, 2011). Historically, many unregistered U.S. fund managers had relied on this exemption to avoid registration where they:

(1) had fewer than 15 clients in the past 12 months;

(2) do not hold themselves out generally to the public as investment advisers; and

(3) do not act as investment advisers to a registered investment company or business development company.

At present, advisers can treat the unregistered funds that they advise, rather than the investors in those funds, as their clients for purposes of
this exemption. A common practice has thus evolved whereby certain
advisers manage up to 14 unregistered funds without having to register
under the Advisers Act. Accordingly, the removal of this
exemption represents a significant shift in the regulatory landscape, as
this practice will no longer be allowable in approximately one year.

Also
an important consideration, the Dodd-Frank Act mandates new federal
registration and regulation thresholds based on the amount of assets a
manager has under management ("AUM"). Although not yet underway, it is
possible that various states may enact legislation designed to create a
similar registration framework for managers whose AUM fall beneath the
new federal levels.

Accredited Investor Qualifications

Section
413(a) of the Act alters the financial qualifications of who can be
considered an accredited investor, and thus a qualified as eligible
participant (“QEP”). Specifically, the revised accredited investor
standard includes only the following types of individuals:

1) A natural person whose individual net worth, or joint net worth with spouse, is at least $1,000,000, excluding the value of such investor's primary residence;

2) A
natural person who had individual income in excess of $200,000 in each
of the two most recent years or joint income with spouse in excess of
$300,000 in each of those years and a reasonable expectation of reaching
the same income level in the current year; or

3) A
director, executive officer, or general partner of the issuer of the
securities being offered or sold, or a director, executive officer, or
general partner of a general partner of that issuer.

Based on
this language, it is important to note that the revised accredited
investor standard only applies to new investors and does not cover
existing investors. However, additional subscriptions from existing
investors are generally treated as requiring confirmation of continuing
investor eligibility.

On July 27th, 2010, the SEC
provided additional clarity regarding the valuation of an individual’s
primary residence when calculating net worth. In particular, the SEC has
interpreted this provision as follows:

Section
413(a) of the Dodd-Frank Act does not define the term “value,” nor does
it address the treatment of mortgage and other indebtedness secured by
the residence for purposes of the net worth calculation…Pending
implementation of the changes to the Commission’s rules required by the
Act, the related amount of indebtedness secured by the primary residence
up to its fair market value may also be excluded. Indebtedness secured
by the residence in excess of the value of the home should be considered
a liability and deducted from the investor’s net worth.

h/t Ryan

 

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Sat, 06/18/2011 - 13:24 | 1380390 Goatboy
Goatboy's picture

Great way to stifle metals. No legislation is needed, just rumors.

Sat, 06/18/2011 - 13:53 | 1380488 ackerrj
ackerrj's picture

I have searched dodd-frank here:

http://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/BILLS-111hr4173enr/pdf/BILLS-111hr4173enr.pdf

And there is no reference to "gold", "precious", or "over the counter"

that I can locate in the legislation.  Therefore without some further explanation

I consider this post bogus & misinformation.  

 

Anyone got anything to show otherwise?

 

Sat, 06/18/2011 - 14:39 | 1380641 ackerrj
ackerrj's picture

So it appears that you and your wife together have to have a net worth

of 1 million USD (not counting personal res) to trade precious metals on an exchange, or 

you take actual delivery within 28 days.  This is not exactly a 

free market, but it is not a prohibition either.

 

What am I missing?

Sat, 06/18/2011 - 15:07 | 1380735 trav7777
trav7777's picture

A predeliction toward hysteria maybe?

It also clearly says on margin.

It does not in any way pertain to coin dealers

Sat, 06/18/2011 - 15:36 | 1380808 Quixotic_Not
Quixotic_Not's picture

Sheeple seem prone to hysterics, they also seem to crave tyranny as well.

A calm person can see, that at the moment, physical possession is still legal - If they read & can comprehend the relevant portion of the Act.

Of course, that could change overnight if 'MeriKans vote to expand the (D) & (R) Free Shit Empire™ in 2012, as it would only take an executive order to shift the paradigm...

All I can say is prepare accordingly.

Sat, 06/18/2011 - 18:26 | 1381199 soccerballtux
soccerballtux's picture

"The prohibition of Section 742(a) does not apply, however, if such a transaction results in actual delivery within 28 days, or creates an enforceable obligation to deliver between a seller and a buyer that have the ability to deliver, and accept delivery of, the commodity in connection with their lines of business."

So in other words if you are just having them hold gold that you bought, there is an enforceable obligation to deliver between the seller and the buyer (you).

I fail to see what the big deal is? This act just means you can't play with gold on futures. But you can still buy it online and have it held online. No?

Sat, 06/18/2011 - 21:48 | 1381581 beanieville
beanieville's picture

They should make gold trading illegal.  Why be cancerous and hurt your fellow man?  It takes being an arse to go all-in gold and silver:

http://bit.ly/iHPEJD 

 

 

Sun, 06/19/2011 - 10:08 | 1382324 Harlequin001
Harlequin001's picture

"Why be cancerous and hurt your fellow man?"

Because I really can't afford to wait until I retire to discover that my life savings are worthless and I can't afford to feed myself...

Sun, 06/19/2011 - 14:58 | 1382823 Ahmeexnal
Ahmeexnal's picture

If this is true, then millions of illegal alien gardeners/cooks/busboys/nannies/maids/construction workers/produce pickers/etc are now elligible to become PM financial custodians. Hope you have treated them well.

Sun, 06/19/2011 - 11:05 | 1382402 MarketTruth
MarketTruth's picture

"Never forget that everything Hitler did in Germany was legal." -- Martin Luther King, Jr.

"But when you recall that one of the first moves by Lenin, Mussolini and Hitler was to outlaw individual ownership of gold, you begin to sense that there may be some connection between money, redeemable in gold, and the rare prize known as human liberty.
--- Howard Buffett (Warren Buffett's father and former U.S. Congressman)
READ MORE at: www.fame.org/PDF/buffet3.pdf

Sun, 06/19/2011 - 11:18 | 1382425 equity_momo
equity_momo's picture

Damn shame his son is a total douchebag , the little guy could use a multi-billionaire on their side...

Sun, 06/19/2011 - 15:11 | 1382852 Quixotic_Not
Quixotic_Not's picture

They should make reproduction of mouth breathing, inbred mongrels illegal too.  Why be a parasite and suck the blood of your fellow productive man?  It takes being a psychopathic narcissist to go full retard.

Good luck with your position as a political commissar during the great purge of 'MeriKans...

Sat, 06/18/2011 - 22:03 | 1381583 beanieville
beanieville's picture

 

 

Sat, 06/18/2011 - 22:07 | 1381585 beanieville
beanieville's picture

 

 

Sat, 06/18/2011 - 22:04 | 1381613 beanieville
beanieville's picture

 

 

Sun, 06/19/2011 - 10:49 | 1382370 mr_T
mr_T's picture

Just bought a lot more gold and silver coins from APMEX.. They ship to my home in Spain... Coins are the best...buffalos.. left the country USA with a bunch of them.. they are valued at their face amount $50.. so u can take a lot before u reach 10k usd limit..t

Sun, 06/19/2011 - 11:16 | 1382429 equity_momo
equity_momo's picture

T , APMEX will ship intl?  And are you sure customs value gold at face , not current market value?

Sun, 06/19/2011 - 14:42 | 1382795 mr_T
mr_T's picture

Yes.. I am sure about the face value.. I asked for a private screening when they scanned bags.. If I knew it would be so easy I would have changed more to pm.. I don't want usd nor euros not going down with da ship... Yes.. APMEX ships int ..

Sun, 06/19/2011 - 15:49 | 1382902 Clampit
Clampit's picture

I'm 100% certain customs value gold at face - just the other day I tried to pay duties on a shipment with Buffalo's ...

Sun, 06/19/2011 - 13:56 | 1382719 Guy Fawkes
Guy Fawkes's picture

So there was no issue leaving the USA with gold? Its based on the face value and not spot?

And the receiving country has no issue of import?

Sun, 06/19/2011 - 14:49 | 1382807 mr_T
mr_T's picture

No problems with coins with face values minted in the states.. buffalos and liberties.. no problem if its investment grade... Bullion... Depends on the country u go to... no prob in euroland.. check customs laws for each country

Mon, 06/20/2011 - 10:16 | 1384717 barkster
barkster's picture

mr-t,

 

Did you carry them on the plane with you?

 

Were they in your luggage?

 

Did they want to look at theM?

 

Isn't a u.s. customs form required to be filled out? If so, who did you give the customs form to?

 

I have been trying to find this out and having a devil of a time getting the info!

thanks in advance for any info.

Wed, 08/03/2011 - 16:59 | 1521988 Hremas
Hremas's picture


It sure seems that laws like this will cause people to forego the whole process of converting PMs to fiat and allow PMs to just resume their historical roles are currency. Likely, it'll be street trading and UTC (Under-The-Counter) taking the lead in such a move, but it will become more mainstream over time...until the thugs crack down on it hard.

Interesting times dead ahead!

Sat, 06/18/2011 - 21:44 | 1381561 Libertarians fo...
Libertarians for Prosperity's picture

<snort> <snort>

This done fired me up! Damn guuubbermint trying to take my guns and gold. <snort> Ain't no guuubermint MF'er gonna take my shit. I'll pump 'em with lead quicker than the speed of dark. Fuck'N A, I will.  You best watch...

<libertarian retard voice>

Sat, 06/18/2011 - 23:06 | 1381736 CSA
CSA's picture

Either you're drunk or 12 yoa.  Your wit is horrendous.

Sun, 06/19/2011 - 03:37 | 1382029 Prometheus418
Prometheus418's picture

Personally, I'm Reaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaal drunk.  It's Saturday night though, and the god-awful economy has left no other viable options.  I will, however, attempt to refrain from seeming as though I am twelve years old- that would be unseemly.

*stumble*

 

Sun, 06/19/2011 - 11:25 | 1382437 snowball777
snowball777's picture

<vomits on shoes>

Sun, 06/19/2011 - 13:01 | 1382628 omi
omi's picture

<Vomits on someone else's shoes> is a trully admirable action.

Wed, 08/03/2011 - 17:01 | 1522002 Hremas
Hremas's picture


A lot of trading fx desks will be obliging delivery with cash settlements, because the paper trading houses hold no bullion whatsoever. The COMEX or an ETF may be able to oblige with physical.

So you might actually see a stampede out of these speculative positions and into either physical, over-priced ETFs trading at a premium to NAV, or mining assets, which have traded on an under-valued basis against gold for years.

Sun, 06/19/2011 - 03:50 | 1382036 HungrySeagull
HungrySeagull's picture

Bitterly clinging to Bible, Religion and Guns.

 

That will go down in infamy along with "We have a dream" "Ask what you can do for your country" etc

Sat, 06/18/2011 - 15:15 | 1380757 robobbob
robobbob's picture

are you serious?

the modern control matrix of prohibiting something is to leave it technically legal, thereby diffusing anti-tyranny opposition, but bury the actual activity in so many regulations, fees, and licenses, as to make it virtually impossible for a person of average means, knowledge, motivation, and connections, to conduct it with any level of enjoyment, profit margin, or benefits.

Sat, 06/18/2011 - 15:40 | 1380825 Founders Keeper
Founders Keeper's picture

[the modern control matrix of prohibiting something is to leave it technically legal, thereby diffusing anti-tyranny opposition...]---robobbob

Thanks, robobbob. Yours is an astute observation.

I can think of another application of your observation that may help others to see your point:

Keep gun ownership legal, but regulate the manufacture, purchase, and transport of guns and ammunition so cost prohibitive as to make "gun ownership" effectively impossible.

 

Sat, 06/18/2011 - 16:02 | 1380874 SoNH80
SoNH80's picture

And, theoretically, we can still apply to the U.S. Treasury for a Marihuana Tax Stamp for our back 40 crop, but don't actually try it.  If there is a fog of prohibition over something, it's prohibited, as far as Federal agents are concerned. 

Sun, 06/19/2011 - 09:32 | 1382276 tgatliff
tgatliff's picture

Just for clarification.  That is technically not true...

The MTSA of 1937 was repealed by the CDAACA* of 1970.  Also, the intent (at the time) was to try to hold down drug related crimes which was perceived as hurting "productive" business commerce.  Today, these types of laws are much more about justifying law enforcement budgets than anything else.  

*Comprehensive Drug Abuse Prevention and Controls Act of 1970

Sat, 06/18/2011 - 16:00 | 1380876 SoNH80
SoNH80's picture

Double post

Sat, 06/18/2011 - 17:18 | 1381034 Rynak
Rynak's picture

Heh, in fact, this IS how it has been done in germany. Even though "in theory" you can own a gun here, there are almost no people legally owning guns in germany - reason is that the requirements and bullying is so high, that almost no one bothers. To pick just one example out of many: Here, if you own a gun, the police may at any time for no reason demand to search your home, to check if you comply with the regulations - and you need to pay them for the search. Yes. They can thus basically make you pay as often as they want, for no reason, legally.

Sat, 06/18/2011 - 18:19 | 1381186 Manzilla
Manzilla's picture

Wow Rynak, that is some horse shit! That is truly scary that they can do that over a silly firearm. That sure sounds like a good way to keep people from owning them.

Sat, 06/18/2011 - 19:22 | 1381293 nmewn
nmewn's picture

Sounds like you need to just "borrow" one...indefinitely ;-)

Sat, 06/18/2011 - 22:25 | 1381670 Ahmeexnal
Ahmeexnal's picture

What's wrong with building your own?

Sat, 06/18/2011 - 23:24 | 1381758 nmewn
nmewn's picture

Not being a German citizen, I think ownership is the key here, not possession, from what I gather from his comment.

If it is ownership, they don't know where to look unless its declared. If its possession, it was taken away from the criminal who broke down my door and is laying dead in the hall right there, officer ;-)

A human right as basic as self defense doesn't need any declaration or licensing or explanation in my book.

Sun, 06/19/2011 - 11:24 | 1382436 equity_momo
equity_momo's picture

Europe doesnt care about your book though nmewn.  In Europe , if you so much as verbally abuse a home invader , expect the european court of human rights to bang you up.  The only difference i can tell between the US and Europe right now is this : gun ownership.   And the USSA Police State are working on that : check the militarization of the Police force and raping of the constitution for evidence.

Mon, 06/20/2011 - 10:31 | 1384759 barkster
barkster's picture

while visiting relatives in Mississippi I read in the local paper about two robberies where the business owners killed the criminals and were not sentenced. One criminal tried to rob a gold and silver store. The other stole a case of beer at a convenience store and the owner followed him out and shot him in his car as he sped away. The former was not charged. The latter was sent to trial but found not guilty under Mississippi's Castle Doctrine.

A Castle Doctrine (also known as a Castle Law or a Defense of Habitation Law) is an American legal doctrine arising from English Common Law[1] that designates one's place of residence (or, in some states, any place legally occupied, such as one's car or place of work) as a place in which one enjoys protection from illegal trespassing and violent attack. It then goes on to give a person the legal right to use deadly force to defend that place (his "castle"), and any other innocent persons legally inside it, from violent attack or an intrusion which may lead to violent attack. In a legal context, therefore, use of deadly force which actually results in death may be defended as justifiable homicide under the Castle Doctrine.

Mon, 06/20/2011 - 10:36 | 1384765 barkster
barkster's picture

...

Sat, 06/18/2011 - 22:19 | 1381657 Founders Keeper
Founders Keeper's picture

[Even though "in theory" you can own a gun here...]---Rynak

Hi Rynak.

Thanks for your post. Gives us in the U.S. a glimpse of what we can expect.

 

Sat, 06/18/2011 - 22:50 | 1381708 John Rotten
John Rotten's picture

That is why you move to Switzerland.  A former employer of mine did just that (although I don't think that was the motivating reason).

Sun, 06/19/2011 - 11:33 | 1382453 equity_momo
equity_momo's picture

Unless you are seriously loaded , forget about moving to CHF.  Read up on how difficult it is for a foreigner to simply own real estate in Switzerland and then let me know how wealthy your former employer was. I have to give them credit , the Swiss want no truck in our problems - unless you have alot to offer them , you aint getting a pass. Thats the way any sovereign state should be to be honest. Europe , the UK and now the US have not only been weakened by Wall St predators , unchecked immigration and a soft touch welfare state for those deemed "needy" are every bit as culpable.

Sun, 06/19/2011 - 14:34 | 1382778 Ahmeexnal
Ahmeexnal's picture

Yes and no.

The other way is to apply for assylum. Wear a burkha to the interview. Always works.

Sun, 06/19/2011 - 03:47 | 1382037 Prometheus418
Prometheus418's picture

Rynak, you need some gun shows.

Even though we've been soft-sold into psuedo-slavery here in the US, I can tell you with absolute certainty that we can still buy whatever lead-delivery system we like with no paper whatsoever.

Here's an example, and I'm not afraid of saying it online, because it's a fractional revelation.  I bought a 30-30 with a Bushnell firefly scope a few years ago with the "Bush rebate check" from a private party- no paperwork at all, cash transaction.  This year, I traded the scope plus two silver peace dollars for a new Remington 870 12-ga pump from a gun show.  Those are the two I have on hand- but there are more, and more, and more, and more.

Molan Labe- I've got all kinds of other tricks buried and ready for Project Mayhem fun.  Sure, I'll give you my cowboy gunz, officer.

Cash and carry, bitchez.

Sat, 06/18/2011 - 17:47 | 1381115 Buck Johnson
Buck Johnson's picture

You are correct, what they are doing is obfuscating the laws and make it hard to have a good fight against it because as you said it's still technically legal but you have to jump through so many hoops that they have made it almost impossible.  This why they can take the gold and say you violated this and other laws and by the time you get to court and at some finish, it would be a moot point.  Did Frank give a reason or Dodd why it's so important for this one provision?  They are getting the pieces together for the move when this whole game comes down, and they need to quickly take and move things around.

Sat, 06/18/2011 - 14:03 | 1380542 Hansel
Hansel's picture

Further, what products does forex.com offer related to XAU and XAG, which are indices of miners?

If this stops money from flowing into derivatives of an index and into actual gold and silver, it might be a good thing.

Sat, 06/18/2011 - 14:43 | 1380659 speconomist
speconomist's picture

You're wrong dude, XAU and XAG are spot gold and silver for forex.com and many other brokers.

Sat, 06/18/2011 - 14:54 | 1380697 Hansel
Hansel's picture

OK.  I know of the XAU index.  http://finance.yahoo.com/q?s=^XAU

Sat, 06/18/2011 - 15:18 | 1380756 AGoldhamster
AGoldhamster's picture

that is a gold and silver stock index like the HUI.

though we are talking here about something completely different - has nothing to do with stocks!

Sat, 06/18/2011 - 15:32 | 1380790 Hansel
Hansel's picture

I realize that now, but thank you.

Sun, 06/19/2011 - 07:09 | 1382152 speconomist
speconomist's picture

No problem, weeks ago, I had the opposite problem when someone was talking about the XAU index and completely different value of the spot price for gold, I was really confused.

Sat, 06/18/2011 - 16:32 | 1380931 swissinv
swissinv's picture

don't confuse XAU currency with ^XAU philadelphia index

Sat, 06/18/2011 - 14:11 | 1380561 Arrowflinger
Arrowflinger's picture

What about Dr. Copper?

Leave him out and every city goes dark from massive thefts.

Sat, 06/18/2011 - 16:52 | 1380979 pcrs
pcrs's picture

In the Netherlands they had a new law regarding the increased VAT on the arts passed januari 1st. Turned out that silver coins were also considered art and it's VAT tax also went up. Even the silver bullion dealers were only notified just before jan 1.

I call these stealth laws. Like the 1099 form law was fumbled away in the Obama health care bill and caused bullion dealers enormous amount of administrative burden (taken out btw).

Sat, 06/18/2011 - 20:27 | 1381383 Reptil
Reptil's picture

numismatic modern coins? art? they're joking!?

lol "vadertje staat is failliet".

there's still whole tribes here that know absolutely nothing about currency; the word fiat means small car.

 

Sun, 06/19/2011 - 04:16 | 1382048 Prometheus418
Prometheus418's picture

Now, now.

Be fair.  Just because of this comment, I pulled out an American silver eagle in an air-tight holder.

Let's do an artistic assessment- To be fair, the tail side is kind of weak.  Sure, it has an eagle, but it's kind of squashed and institutional looking.  But the "heads" side?  +100 for good taste. 

Unless you're one of the modern art types, I think you should take a second look.  Art Nouveau was a great movement, and worthy of being captured in a precious metal.

(Edit due to premature "save" hitting)

The old walking liberties are better- and comprise more of my personal collection.  That old-fashioned eagle on the back looks like he's about to step on a shit-headed banker.

(</edit>)

Sun, 06/19/2011 - 10:13 | 1382330 pcrs
pcrs's picture

no also investment coins like libertads, philharmonics, eagels, maple leafs.

yeah, our benevolent benefactors are grabbing left and right for our money now.

Sun, 06/19/2011 - 12:27 | 1382571 Johnson Sandwich
Johnson Sandwich's picture

hoi hoi Reptil...

 

talking about the Netherlands... can anyone recommend a few good coin shops and/or bullion dealer in the nl?

Sun, 06/19/2011 - 12:24 | 1382566 Johnson Sandwich
Johnson Sandwich's picture

talking about the Netherlands... can anyone recommend a few good coin shops and/or bullion dealers?   how about in Sweden? highly appreciated.

ps. is there a website with a list of active bullion dealers in Europe?

thanks

Sat, 06/18/2011 - 18:56 | 1381245 Weisbrot
Weisbrot's picture

 

10:1 leverage ratio and not 100:1 leverage

seems to make a whole lot of sense

 

 

Sat, 06/18/2011 - 20:23 | 1381373 trentusa
trentusa's picture

Why would Tyler post something untrue, part smthng that will give people all around the country instananeous heart attacks? Hey Tyler you're hilarious- so can i like just go to forex.com and totally sell a short put on a gold futures contract (bc thats the kind of sophisticated investor i am) and overthrow the Federal Reserve while making ourselves stinkin' rich at the same time?

      Anybody else watching Judge Neapolitano making Sarah Palin look just real damn stupid on Freedom Watch right now? Go Mavs.

Sat, 06/18/2011 - 22:10 | 1381637 TeMpTeK
TeMpTeK's picture

Doesnt matter anyway...

No act of Congress or executive order from the
 Prez carries weight in any one of the 50 states
of the union unless it has to do with interstate
 commerce... Dodd-Frank is no exception...
 For proof of this fact lets all laugh at the following..

1).The Real ID ACT 2005 (Totally Nullified by the
States) So much for Congressional authority.

2) The Gun Free School Zone Act ( Mocked by a gun
toting student. Act wrongfully applied outside Fed
 Jurisdiction in the Great state of Texas..Act overturned
 by SCOTUS and deemend "Unconsitutional".

3) All Federal Marijuana Laws totally ignored
by the State of CA and others are following suit. Medical
Marijuana  towns have sprouted up.. The Feds Powerless
 to Stop. Why?? NO JURISDICTION in any one of the
50 states of the Union..Fed drug laws DO NOT APPLY in the states.
 Thats why we have local representatives and our own laws
 in each state.

So if Congress cannot force the states into implementing REAl ID..
If they Cannot Stop California from taxing and selling illegal
Marijuana.. and if they cannot legislate gun possesion laws
in school zones within any one of the 50 sates of the union..
Please tell me what makes anyone think Congress and the President
via Frank-Dodd or any executive order can legislate sale of a legal comodity in any way...
Lets not even talk about the
Myth of GOLD Confiscation that has duped so many
well meaning individuals...
Congress writes the laws for Fed territories and
Enclaves ONLY.. ie D.C. Puerto Rico , Guam, Samoas,
US Virgin Isles.. ETC..

The President is the Commander in Chief of the MILITARY..
Not the individual States.. His executive orders are
Not Law they are mearly inhouse suggestions..

Cmon Tyler.. Dont give these Bufoons in Washington any legitimacy....They are
total fake phony imposters...

 

 

 

Sat, 06/18/2011 - 23:36 | 1381790 Libertarian777
Libertarian777's picture

No act of Congress or executive order from the
 Prez carries weight in any one of the 50 states
of the union unless it has to do with interstate
 commerce... Dodd-Frank is no exception...

 

Hate to break the bad news to you, but Wickard v Fillburn totally destroys that theory. Every positive action is basically interstate commerce due to that court case.

And now with Obamacare, every negative action (i.e things you DON'T do) are also interstate commerce related.

 

[stupid captcha...can anyone explain why the captcha uses negative numbers but then doesn't allow you to enter a negative answer? 4 x -35 = -140... but you can't enter that answer.]

 

 

Sun, 06/19/2011 - 00:51 | 1381889 HungrySeagull
HungrySeagull's picture

Congress cannot mandate Interstate Commerce across the entire nation by forcing US Citizens to buy goods or services such as the Healthcare Act. That is why so many States have take it back to the Courts because the 111th congress rammed it down our throats, we say up yours.

 

Employers and Unions by the thousands got Waivers, Others consider dropping Health care all together and some like myself think carefully about not participating at all and stay cash only with the Fam Doctor for boo boo's only.

Sun, 06/19/2011 - 11:30 | 1382446 snowball777
snowball777's picture

It's bugged...not your fault...call it an extra layer of protection against those with a lack of persistence.

 

Sun, 06/19/2011 - 17:12 | 1383030 TeMpTeK
TeMpTeK's picture

Oh So,... US v Lopez overturned? CA now under fed mandate

to stop Medical Marijuana shops? Real ID in full effect?.. PLEASE

Over 200+ years of well settled law says America is still a

free country, the people and states are soveriegn.. the 2nd

ammendment guarantees this fact by enforcement if need be..

 

Let me also beat Tyler to this future headline..

"Obamacare UNCONSTITUTIONAL"

Wanna bet your house? Noone can compel u to buy anything...

PERIOD!!!

Sun, 06/19/2011 - 03:55 | 1382043 Prometheus418
Prometheus418's picture

Stop it, stop it.

C'mon now.  I've been simply itching to hang a banker, and you know that that's a fair feeling.  

So, are what you are saying is that I have been right for decades, when I've told the laity that "America always has her sons, even when she (apparently) hates them."?

Sun, 06/19/2011 - 10:15 | 1382338 pcrs
pcrs's picture

The feds have the biggest guns and the printing press. The states ar bankrupt and in need of some printed money. They will obey. Wans't Texas recently threatened with a no fly zone by the feds, if they got rid of the 'hands down your pants' TSA?

Sun, 06/19/2011 - 11:33 | 1382452 snowball777
snowball777's picture

They say possession is 9/10ths of the law...imagine how quickly CA could close its budget gap if it impounded and sold off every bit of MIC equipment being manufactured in the state on behalf of the Feds.

Sun, 06/19/2011 - 16:06 | 1382926 disabledvet
disabledvet's picture

i dug a little deeper a noticed this "in a foot note":

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=pNjIpLHZNNs

seems you're right.  the government really is serious about their gold.

Tue, 06/21/2011 - 02:17 | 1388064 ViewfromUnderth...
ViewfromUndertheBridge's picture

XAU & XAG will NOT be illegal to trade for US residents come July 15.

http://www.cftc.gov/ucm/groups/public/@newsroom/documents/file/forexfinalrulefactsheet.pdf

This is the CFTC Final Rule Regarding Retail Foreign Exchange Transactions.

In short, to offer forex OTC trading platforms to US resident retail customers a company must register with the CFTC as a Retail Forex Exchange Dealer (RFED). This is a new category and requires strict reporting to increase transparency for retail clients. Information such as the number of participants who made a profit in the last quarter, any pending lawsuits and a warning if the company's remaining capital is approaching the new minimum limit, which is $20 million.

Leverage is limited to 50:1 (2% margin) for major currency pairs and 20:1 (5% margin) for others.

It looks to me as if XAU and XAG are included in the majors (50:1) on the basis that these are Oanda's margins for XAU and XAG and they are listed to be a compliant RFED. The National Futures Association can set refinements within these limits. If you do not know much about OTC forex trading and want to learn the basics the NFA offers a condescending 24 page booklet here:

http://www.nfa.futures.org/NFA-investor-information/publication-library/forex.pdf

To see if your OTC forex provider is a compliant RFED you can check here:

http://www.nfa.futures.org/basicnet/welcome.aspx

These companies would appear not to be compliant, because the CFTC is already suing them under the new rules:

http://www.cftc.gov/PressRoom/PressReleases/pr5974-11.html

Conclusion...Tyler, love your work but please lift your game.

Sat, 06/18/2011 - 13:50 | 1380493 Sudden Debt
Sudden Debt's picture

1$ SILVER HERE WE COME!!!!!

 

It's good to be: EUROPEAN!!

 

Sat, 06/18/2011 - 14:18 | 1380592 falak pema
falak pema's picture

PM turn coat?

 

Sat, 06/18/2011 - 16:14 | 1380885 Popo
Popo's picture

Wait... What? This is "trading" is it not? When did it become religious fanaticism? There is a market. It is influenced by thousands of forces beyond ones control.

You trade the tape you get, or you dont know how to trade. This is a major shift in policy.. It may require a major shift in investment tactics. (one must note, that it was policy in the first place that pushed metals to new highs. That policy can turn on a dime)

The nimble survive. The emotional investor gets crushed.

IMHO, all this will really end up doing is forcing metals offshore.... A disastrous outcome for the USA....

Sat, 06/18/2011 - 16:15 | 1380907 Sudden Debt
Sudden Debt's picture

HELL NO!!

Nop, this means that the paper can drop really hard from here on. And a panic will cause a dump in silver first by the lemmings who know shit about it.

After that, gold and silver will skyrocket!

 

Sun, 06/19/2011 - 12:07 | 1382529 Panafrican Funk...
Panafrican Funktron Robot's picture

Such is the silver lining (pun intended!).  This will create a historic buying opportunity.

Sun, 06/19/2011 - 12:11 | 1382543 Panafrican Funk...
Panafrican Funktron Robot's picture

Such is the silver lining (pun intended!).  This will create a historic buying opportunity.

Sat, 06/18/2011 - 14:39 | 1380640 wisfool
wisfool's picture

"... FOREX.com must discontinue metals trading for US residents... ."

 

Whats the simplest way to become a resident of another country so that I can continue trading metals?   Any suggestions? 

Sat, 06/18/2011 - 14:44 | 1380665 SilverIsKing
SilverIsKing's picture

I'm building a rocket ship in my garage and plan on leaving for the moon on July 16th.  You must leave all of your physical metals in my basement since there's not a lot of room aboard the ship and there are strict weight limitations.  As I understand it, the government on the moon is a lot more adept at managing the affairs up there than our government is down here.

Let me know if you want me to hold a seat for you.

P.S. No pets allowed on board unless she's hot.

Sat, 06/18/2011 - 14:59 | 1380703 Sudden Debt
Sudden Debt's picture

You don't need to be citizen of Europe to buy it in Europe.

You go to Europe, open a PO box and let you silver be delivered in it.

Come back every 6 months and empty it. Go to a bank and rent a safe without a account (trackable) and put your stuff in it.

Or just rent a storageroom a shurgard and put it in there.

Once they back the dollar up by silver and gold, you come pick it up.

 

Sat, 06/18/2011 - 15:07 | 1380727 swissaustrian
swissaustrian's picture

Found an offshore company?

Sat, 06/18/2011 - 19:18 | 1381286 _Alekhine_
_Alekhine_'s picture

Unfortunately, in Europe you have to pay VAT (about 20%) on Silver. 

Sun, 06/19/2011 - 02:34 | 1381982 SovietCong
SovietCong's picture

Depends on the member state. Some places have VAT, some others don't. Plus, most countries exempt derivatives, including PM futures, from VAT and even capital gains. Even in those states that apply VAT, the tax, as its name suggests, only applies to the value added. Without a doubt this is not a good thing, but it is not as bad as it sounds. Moreover, if you can make a case that the trade you've made is related to your other business operations (and it's not such a high a standard to show this), you can basically offset whatever VAT you owe against the VAT you pay for services and goods you purchased in the same time for the purposes of your business activity.

Sat, 06/18/2011 - 14:56 | 1380704 alien-IQ
alien-IQ's picture

buy a home in the Bahamas worth 500k or more an you can pretty easily become a Bahamian citizen. No capital gains tax there either...and the beaches do not suck AT ALL.

Sat, 06/18/2011 - 15:06 | 1380726 falak pema
falak pema's picture

Oh dear now Bahamas will be even more full of US trolls on the run.

Sat, 06/18/2011 - 17:32 | 1381057 Confuchius
Confuchius's picture

This is not bad news.

To catch fish, one needs bait.

Voila! Troll bait!

Sat, 06/18/2011 - 18:09 | 1381170 Confuchius
Confuchius's picture

This is not bad news.

To catch fish, one needs bait.

Voila! Troll bait!

Sat, 06/18/2011 - 19:40 | 1381313 XPolemic
XPolemic's picture

Whats the simplest way to become a resident of another country so that I can continue trading metals?   Any suggestions? 

Citizenship of Dominica is only USD75,000.


Sat, 06/18/2011 - 20:50 | 1381443 Botox4U2
Botox4U2's picture

Whats the simplest way to become a resident of another country so that I can continue trading metals?   Any suggestions? "

Are you idiots still down there? How many friggen times do people like Gerald Celente, Alex Jones and hundreds of others have to tell you to get out?  Frankly I'm tired of trying to reason with  people down there. Do you all imagine the "New World Order" won't affect you? The Jews who were stupid enough to stay in Germany after 1933 mostly perished.


Sun, 06/19/2011 - 10:38 | 1382356 Harlequin001
Harlequin001's picture

"... FOREX.com must discontinue metals trading for US residents... ."

Whats the simplest way to become a resident of another country so that I can continue trading metals?   Any suggestions? 

 

You don't. You set up a trust in a non US jurisdiction and trade through the trustee. The law does not forbid you from benefiting from the trade, only executing it yourself in the US unless I am mistaken.

It is not illegal for US residents to benefit from an offshore trust or company, only to fail to declare it if you are...

Sun, 06/19/2011 - 02:29 | 1381978 ciscokid
ciscokid's picture

It will soon be law also in Europe.

Its all a way of stopping people from

owning gold and silver.

Sun, 06/19/2011 - 09:42 | 1382281 tgatliff
tgatliff's picture

Your assumption is that Tyler's statements above are true.  I cannot find anything from Forex.com that backs up what Tyler's article says.  

I would think that if such a large change was being made that Forex would at the very least have a press release on it.   Well, if they do then I (and many others) sure cannot find it...

Sun, 06/19/2011 - 09:40 | 1382282 tgatliff
tgatliff's picture

Your assumption is that Tyler's statements above are true.  I cannot find anything from Forex.com that backs up what Tyler's article says.  

I would think that if such a large change was being made that Forex would at the very least have a press release on it.   Well, if they do then I (and many others) sure cannot find it...

Sun, 06/19/2011 - 09:40 | 1382284 tgatliff
tgatliff's picture

Your assumption is that Tyler's statements above are true.  I cannot find anything from Forex.com that backs up what Tyler's article says.  

I would think that if such a large change was being made that Forex would at the very least have a press release on it.   Well, if they do then I (and many others) sure cannot find it...

Sun, 06/19/2011 - 09:41 | 1382285 tgatliff
tgatliff's picture

Your assumption is that Tyler's statements above are true.  I cannot find anything from Forex.com that backs up what Tyler's article says.  

I would think that if such a large change was being made that Forex would at the very least have a press release on it.   Well, if they do then I (and many others) sure cannot find it...

Sun, 06/19/2011 - 07:19 | 1382158 boooyaaaah
boooyaaaah's picture

Supply and demand

Does the Dodd deal do anything to affect supply or demand

Sat, 06/18/2011 - 13:50 | 1380494 BobPaulson
BobPaulson's picture

Stifle? Uh, this kind of news will goose physical IMHO. Did banning drugs bring the prices down?

Sat, 06/18/2011 - 15:44 | 1380837 johngaltfla
johngaltfla's picture

Ding! A winner who gets it. Short term bearish for the "paper" metals, long term bullish as now physical demand outside of the U.S. will strip the COMEX bare and leave Dubai, Canada, Hong Kong, Singapore, and Europe as the centers of physical metals trading. The U.S. loses the business, they pick it up. Capital flows where it is most friendly to do business. In this case Capital Flight Airlines Flight 102 is now departing at Gate 7. Watch for more foreign outflows in corporate paper, commodities, munis, and other U.S. instruments as Dud-Flunk is implemented one regulation at a time.

Sat, 06/18/2011 - 13:54 | 1380496 Lieutenant Dan
Lieutenant Dan's picture

Tyler,

How is the Forex.com metals trading different from trading through the comex? Have they provided their own "exchange" in which to trade the metals?

Sat, 06/18/2011 - 15:13 | 1380741 swissaustrian
swissaustrian's picture

Smaller contracts? Individual conditions? Maybe weekend trading?

Sat, 06/18/2011 - 15:21 | 1380766 robobbob
robobbob's picture

X100 leverage

Sat, 06/18/2011 - 15:37 | 1380804 scratch_and_sniff
scratch_and_sniff's picture

forex.com make they're own markets, i.e. they are counterparty to the risk, and stand to lose if you win.

Sun, 06/19/2011 - 10:38 | 1382359 Harlequin001
Harlequin001's picture

That does not sound good, unless you are planning for tax mitigation...

Sat, 06/18/2011 - 14:09 | 1380532 legal eagle
legal eagle's picture

This is great news for me.  I set up trusts and companies for US person clients that hold offshore accounts, Swiss and Bahamas, that can trade in metals in Switzerland, Hong Kong, now China, so the real money just moves offshore.  And yes, more monster boxes of silver and gold bars to be sold.

The "unintended consequences" NOBODY can forsee.

 

Sat, 06/18/2011 - 14:41 | 1380654 AgShaman
AgShaman's picture

I doubt this very much.

Uncle Sugar's hegemony has forced the countries of the world to submit to MLAT's as per the Bankster's requests. They produce capital controls whenever the landscape erodes and it looks to be a good time to move assets offshore. As far as I know....there's only a couple holdouts (countries) left....willing to flip the bird at the Empire and keep their meathooks from reaching into your pockets wherever you think you can hide from them on this planet.

If I'm wrong....do tell....as I find the subject to be the most interesting (for my own reasons)

Sat, 06/18/2011 - 14:52 | 1380680 SilverIsKing
SilverIsKing's picture

Short of breaking the law and potentially facing Bubba and his band of brothers while your pants are down around your ankles, we are almost at checkmate if you keep funds in the system.  I think an account at bullionvault or goldmoney is now a must since another door has been slammed shut.

This is great for FOREX' business and the US economy.  I'm sure they'll be hiring by the truckload now.

Sat, 06/18/2011 - 15:18 | 1380754 AgShaman
AgShaman's picture

I have a couple definitive ideas that I think would be viable options...

....but no, I'm not comfortable sharing them over the internet.

Good luck to all....this subject will build creativity within your brainbox....stressful or fun, depending on your specific persona

Sat, 06/18/2011 - 15:43 | 1380821 Quixotic_Not
Quixotic_Not's picture

Agreed, although I'd be aware that there is a fine line between activity that goes under the radar and that of what might place you into scapegoat territory...

Sat, 06/18/2011 - 15:56 | 1380862 Bindar Dundat
Bindar Dundat's picture

I think I am going to a Brothel, at least there I am happy when I get screwed

Sat, 06/18/2011 - 16:26 | 1380925 Sudden Debt
Sudden Debt's picture

A guy once walked into a brothel and said to the hooker:

I WANT TO GET FUCKED BY THE BIGGEST SLUT THERE IS!

The hooker says: are you sure? it's quite expensive.

YES, THE MAN SAID! I'LL PAY TOP DOLLAR, BUT I REALLY REALLY WANT TO BE FUCKED HARD!

Oké says to hooker. Follow me.

They enter the room and the hooker says: Lay down, so I can ty you up and fuck you real hard.

The guy lays down on the bed, and the hooker ties him up.

The guy it shouting : OH YEAH BITCH, FUCK ME! FUCK ME!

And the hooker gets off the bed, walks to where he threw his pants, takes his wallet, takes all the money and his visa.

Steps back, takes a camera and takes 10 pictures and says: This is for your wife!

Than she walks out but before she leaves the room, she turns her head and says: YOU'RE FUCKED!

 

 

Sat, 06/18/2011 - 22:15 | 1381654 SilverRhino
SilverRhino's picture
  • A guy once walked into a brothel and said to the hooker:
  • I WANT TO GET FUCKED BY THE BIGGEST SLUT THERE IS!
  • The hooker says: are you sure? it's quite expensive.
  • YES, THE MAN SAID! I'LL PAY TOP DOLLAR, BUT I REALLY REALLY WANT TO BE FUCKED HARD!
  • Oké says to hooker. Follow me.
  • They enter the room and the hooker says: Lay down, so I can ty you up and fuck you real hard.
  • The guy lays down on the bed, and the hooker ties him up.

 

  • In walks a Goldman-Sachs (Blythe) rep with a strap-on, an IRS agent with a whip and Obama with a hard-on.
Sun, 06/19/2011 - 14:52 | 1382814 Ahmeexnal
Ahmeexnal's picture

And Sarkozy with a brown nose.

Sun, 06/19/2011 - 10:48 | 1382373 Harlequin001
Harlequin001's picture

'I have a couple definitive ideas that I think would be viable options...'

So how would you choose to discuss this?

Sun, 06/19/2011 - 15:07 | 1382840 AgShaman
AgShaman's picture

I wouldn't. Which is most likely the reason for the junks.

It falls in line with Rule #1 (pertaining to phys. PM ownership)

I was merely stating that it's an interesting and important subject(at least to me)....and that I believe I've come up with a couple solutions to circumvent "things"

People should put on their thinking caps and do the same if that is their desire.

disclaimer: I found the process fun

No offense to others...but some things should remain secret (IMO) as privacy is a very important matter. Sure....I'll probably let my woman know these secrets...or some of them...if she needs to....but she's gonna have to build me an army of kidlets first....otherwise, there's really no good reason to let just anyone into the fold of such matters. I must run a tight ship...if I expect the success I envision.

Sat, 06/18/2011 - 15:20 | 1380771 AGoldhamster
AGoldhamster's picture

What about the self employed trader trading for a living? What about the brokers losing zillion of customers now? What about money flowing elsewhere now?

While the big banks continue - unabated - to hoard all sort of commodities in their warehouses and drive prices to da moon

And position limits for the big banks - anybody?

But the small guy gets crushed.

Human rights anybody? Just for those with net worth above 1m or income > 200K?

2 class society after July 15?

This is soooo insane I have no words anymore.

Sun, 06/19/2011 - 15:05 | 1380838 Quixotic_Not
Quixotic_Not's picture

It has been a two class society, for quite awhile now: 

(1) Those that are connected banksters and/or politeers

-AND-

(2) Those that qualify for brokerage accounts.

Everyone else is a classless member of the huddled mongrels - Sorry you didn't realize that factoid before...

Sat, 06/18/2011 - 20:07 | 1381349 SilverDosed
SilverDosed's picture

Do I get to file for unemployment? What about food stamps?

Sun, 06/19/2011 - 04:20 | 1382051 Prometheus418
Prometheus418's picture

No, comrade.

That is for "poor" people who vote to maintain the status quo.

You must continue to work for fifty hours (or more) each week to purchase your 1/2 cup of rice and beans.

 

Sat, 06/18/2011 - 15:54 | 1380863 legal eagle
legal eagle's picture

The law requires foreign accounts to be disclosed to the IRS each year.  Your IRS Form 1040 must disclose the account (there is a box that much be checked) and something called an FBAR needs to be filed by June 30th of each year disclosing offshore accounts and the amount held in those accounts.  I only help people who want to stay tax compliant. 

So, if clients want to make sure their assets are never touched by the US govt, or their creditors, then they keep their accounts (in the name of a company or trust) in a foreign bank for one year, declare the account as required by law to the IRS, and then move the account to another bank.  The law is complied with, but by the time the delclarations are made to the IRS the money has been moved. 

Sometimes hiding in plain sight is the most effective.

 

 

Sat, 06/18/2011 - 16:20 | 1380919 AgShaman
AgShaman's picture

Unless you're physically moving those assets to a neighboring country without the aid of wire transfers....there will be no hiding.

I believe what you say.

I just don't believe there is much to be gained from the 'trouble' and maneuvers you are describing.

People have abandoned the notion that becoming a true sovereign citizen....and maintaining your personal privacy is something worthwhile to shoot for in your life.

My work life has been a scratching and clawing endeavor to carve out a nest egg. Part of it will be used to build a family that I would like to pass something down to eventually....not have it be subjected to the erosion that happens from being a "compliant" and good little slave.

Sun, 06/19/2011 - 10:56 | 1382386 Harlequin001
Harlequin001's picture

Absolutely. There is no way this can work because the IRS or any other tax office can simply send you a bill and then you have to prove that you don't owe the taxes. Hiding doesn't work, but it makes huge fees for investment bankers for as long as they can get away with it.

There is no law against selling your assets (including your money) to a non resident trustee if it is done properly and at a fair market rate. Do it to a company and you'll probably find that it's regarded as 'close' and you get a tax bill anyway.

As with all things the US has trade agreements with its trading partners. Comply with that and it can be done, but it is very easy to put a wrong foot down so to speak, and if you do not only was it all for nothing but you just send up a flare to every tax inspector on the planet that you need to be watched.

Be careful and don't cut corners for the sake of a few bucks...

The rewards for doing this properly are huge, and extend far beyond trading mere gold and silver...

Sun, 06/19/2011 - 15:17 | 1382856 AgShaman
AgShaman's picture

thumbs up....for your thoughts...thanks

Mon, 06/20/2011 - 07:10 | 1384363 L_Estasi_dell_Oro
L_Estasi_dell_Oro's picture

Although I know what you mean, there's no such thing as a 'sovereign citizen'.

'Sovereign' and 'Citizen' are mutually exclusive..

Sat, 06/18/2011 - 16:49 | 1380969 RockyRacoon
RockyRacoon's picture

...and something called an FUBAR needs to be file...

Fixed that for ya.  You're welcome.

Sat, 06/18/2011 - 18:05 | 1381153 legal eagle
legal eagle's picture

Lol, thanks

Sat, 06/18/2011 - 21:27 | 1381536 Botox4U2
Botox4U2's picture

No, it's FBAR

Foreign Bank Account Report

Sat, 06/18/2011 - 21:51 | 1381578 Terminus C
Terminus C's picture

You have no sense of ha ha.

Sun, 06/19/2011 - 01:56 | 1381949 shesalive
shesalive's picture

+hysterical

Sat, 06/18/2011 - 21:18 | 1381520 Botox4U2
Botox4U2's picture

Each US person with a financial interest in or signature or other authority over any financial account in a foreign country must file an FBAR if the aggregate value of all such accounts exceed $10,000 at any time during the calendar year.  The FBAR must be filed on or before the June 30 after the calendar year in which the relationship existed. The FBAR is required in addition to the reporting obligations with respect to foreign accounts on Form 1040, Schedule B.[16]

http://www.lewissaret.com/2010/03/foreign-bank-account-report-td-f-90-22...

This is NOT an IRS requirement. It is a DHS requirement and the penalties are massive if one doesn't file and is caught.

Unfortunately vehicles such as GoldMoney are considered to be a financial account. Rule...if your investment has a number attached with your name then you must file this TD F-90-22.1

I told you all to leave the USA but you all think the problem will go away LOL, yeah just like Hitler went away AFTER the country was destroyed

 

Sun, 06/19/2011 - 10:55 | 1382375 legal eagle
legal eagle's picture

You missed the joke.

Sun, 06/19/2011 - 10:55 | 1382376 legal eagle
legal eagle's picture

You missed the joke.

Sun, 06/19/2011 - 11:12 | 1382407 RockyRacoon
RockyRacoon's picture

If I gotta 'splain it, it ain't funny no more.

 

FUBAR
Sat, 06/18/2011 - 16:22 | 1380918 Freddie
Freddie's picture

Mugabe 2 and the Democrats.  Nice job by the CS'ers here who voted for him.

"Bye bye pervert!"

 

Tue, 06/21/2011 - 02:14 | 1388058 ViewfromUnderth...
ViewfromUndertheBridge's picture

XAU & XAG will NOT be illegal to trade for US residents come July 15.

http://www.cftc.gov/ucm/groups/public/@newsroom/documents/file/forexfinalrulefactsheet.pdf

This is the CFTC Final Rule Regarding Retail Foreign Exchange Transactions.

In short, to offer forex OTC trading platforms to US resident retail customers a company must register with the CFTC as a Retail Forex Exchange Dealer (RFED). This is a new category and requires strict reporting to increase transparency for retail clients. Information such as the number of participants who made a profit in the last quarter, any pending lawsuits and a warning if the company's remaining capital is approaching the new minimum limit, which is $20 million.

Leverage is limited to 50:1 (2% margin) for major currency pairs and 20:1 (5% margin) for others.

It looks to me as if XAU and XAG are included in the majors (50:1) on the basis that these are Oanda's margins for XAU and XAG and they are listed to be a compliant RFED. The National Futures Association can set refinements within these limits. If you do not know much about OTC forex trading and want to learn the basics the NFA offers a condescending 24 page booklet here:

http://www.nfa.futures.org/NFA-investor-information/publication-library/forex.pdf

To see if your OTC forex provider is a compliant RFED you can check here:

http://www.nfa.futures.org/basicnet/welcome.aspx

These companies would appear not to be compliant, because the CFTC is already suing them under the new rules:

http://www.cftc.gov/PressRoom/PressReleases/pr5974-11.html

Conclusion...Tyler, love your work but please lift your game.

Sat, 06/18/2011 - 13:24 | 1380393 bob_dabolina
bob_dabolina's picture

Why?

Sat, 06/18/2011 - 13:35 | 1380411 dryam
dryam's picture

Is it b/c the Crimex is almost out of silver and the U.S. precious metals manipulation game is near it's endgame?

Sat, 06/18/2011 - 13:33 | 1380429 bob_dabolina
bob_dabolina's picture

no....why do I hate my government so much?

Sat, 06/18/2011 - 13:37 | 1380447 CPL
CPL's picture

lol!

 

+1000

Sat, 06/18/2011 - 13:38 | 1380452 Goatboy
Goatboy's picture

Because you still think its yours and it hurts?

Sat, 06/18/2011 - 13:45 | 1380465 bob_dabolina
bob_dabolina's picture

It hurts that someone like Barney Frank could ever be elected. Do you know what that says about my fellow countrymen that he got enough votes to get elected?

I just want to throw up.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a5NrqqK60OI

Sat, 06/18/2011 - 14:14 | 1380569 Everybodys All ...
Everybodys All American's picture

Frank, Pelosi, Dodd, on and on.

Sat, 06/18/2011 - 14:20 | 1380585 bob_dabolina
bob_dabolina's picture

See that's what I'm talkin' about. 

And we elect people named Wiener and Boehner....they're both in bed with Barney Frank....Zing!

But seriously wtf is wrong with us?

Sat, 06/18/2011 - 15:16 | 1380761 gmj
gmj's picture

What's wrong with us?  The average American is a moron.  Any other questions?

Sat, 06/18/2011 - 20:05 | 1381346 XPolemic
XPolemic's picture

Actually I would disagree.

The average American is a simpleton, not a moron.

Morons are those who cannot understand anything, no matter how it is explained.

Simpletons are capable of understanding, but only if it is put into the simplest of terms. Modern life is quite complex, but the great achievement of the modern propaganda system is to take those complexities and reduce them to a 30 second soundbite that even a simpleton can understand.

The ever decreasing number of Americans who are capable of critical thinking and reason tend to go work on Wall Street, taking advantage of the complex loopholes that go over the heads of the simpletons.

And why the hell not? Manufacturing jobs were sent to the third world, software jobs were sent to India. The infrastructure has been left to rot, negating the need for Engineers. The number of places that a science or engineering graduate in the US can find gainful employment has become exceedingly small.

Robert Merton studied science.

Fischer Black studied mathematics, then physics.

They, and thousands of other mathematicians, physicists, scientists and computer engineers all ended up working for a gigantic casino in New York. Little wonder the country is in such a state. You've got all the smart people working in the casino, and the simpletons working on the checkout at WalMart, selling products made in China, designed by engineers in Japan.

 

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