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Trading Of Over The Counter Gold And Silver To Be Illegal Beginning July 15

Tyler Durden's picture





 

One small step toward Executive Order 6102 part 2, and one giant leap for corruptcongressmankind.

From: FOREX.com <info@forex.com>
Date: Fri, Jun 17, 2011 at 6:11 PM
Subject: Important Account Notice Re: Metals Trading
To: xxx

Important Account Notice Re: Metals Trading

           
We wanted to make you aware of some upcoming changes to FOREX.com’s product offering. As a result of the Dodd-Frank Act enacted by US Congress, a new regulation prohibiting US residents from trading over the counter precious metals, including gold and silver, will go into effect on Friday, July 15, 2011.

In conjunction with this new regulation, FOREX.com must discontinue metals trading for US residents on Friday, July 15, 2011 at the close of trading at 5pm ET. As a result, all open metals positions must be closed by July 15, 2011 at 5pm ET.

We encourage you to wind down your trading activity in these products over the next month in anticipation of the new rule, as any open XAU or XAG positions that remain open prior to July 15, 2011 at approximately 5:00 pm ET will be automatically liquidated.

We sincerely regret any inconvenience complying with the new U.S. regulation may cause you. Should you have any questions, please feel free to contact our customer service team.

Sincerely,
The Team at FOREX.com      

So far we have only received this warning from Forex.com. We are waiting to see which other dealers inform their customers that trading gold and silver over the counter will soon be illegal.

It appears that Forex.com's interpretation of the law stems primarily from Section 742(a) of the Dodd-Frank act which "prohibits any person [which again includes
companies]from entering into, or offering to enter into, a transaction
in any commodity with a person that is not an eligible contract
participant or an eligible commercial entity, on a leveraged or margined
basis."

Some prehistory from Hedge Fund Law Blog:

The Dodd-Frank Wall Street Reform and Consumer Protection Act
(“Act”) has changed a number of laws in all of the securities acts
including the Commodity Exchange Act.  Two specific changes deal with
certain transactions in commodities on the spot market.  Specifically,
Section 742 of the Act deals with retail commodity transactions.  In
this section, the text of the Commodity Exchange Act is amended to
include new Section 2(c)(2)(D) (dealing with retail commodity
transactions) and new Section 2(c)(2)(E) (prohibiting trading in spot
forex with retail investors unless the trader is subject to regulations
by a Federal regulatory agency, i.e. CFTC, SEC, etc.).  According to a congressional rulemaking spreadsheet, these are effective 180 days from the date of enactment.

We provide an overview of the new sections and have reprinted them in full below.

New CEA Section 2(c)(2)(D) – Concerning Spot Commodities (Metals)

The central import of new CEA Section 2(c)(2)(D) is to broaden the
CFTC’s power with respect to retail commodity transactions.  Essentially
any spot commodities transaction (i.e. spot metals) will be subject to
CFTC jurisdiction and rulemaking authority.  There is an exemption for
commodities which are actually delivered within 28 days.  While the CFTC
wanted an exemption in which commodities would need to be delivered
within 2 days, various coin collectors were able to lobby congress for a
longer delivery period (see here).

It is likely we will see the CFTC propose regulations under this new
section and we will keep you updated on any regulatory pronouncements
with respect to this new section.

New CEA Section 2(c)(2)(E) – Concerning Spot Forex

The central import of new CEA Section 2(c)(2)(E) is to regulate the
spot forex markets.  While the section requires the CFTC to finalize
regulations with respect to spot forex (which were proposed earlier in
January), it also, interestingly, provides  oversight of the markets to
other federal regulatory agencies such as the CFTC.  This means that in
the future, different market participants may be subject to different
regulatory regimes with respect to trading in same underlying
instruments.  A Wall Street Journal article
discusses the impact of this with respect to firms which engage in
other activities in addition to retail forex transactions.  The CFTC’s
proposed rules establish certain compliance parameters for retail forex
transactions, requires registration of retail forex managers and requires such managers to pass a new regulatory exam called the Series 34 exam.
 We do not yet know whether the other regulatory agencies will adopt
rules similar to the CFTC or if they will write rules from scratch.

Next, from Henderson & Lyman:

The prohibition of Section 742(a) does not apply, however, if such a
transaction results in actual delivery within 28 days, or creates an
enforceable obligation to deliver between a seller and a buyer that have
the ability to deliver, and accept delivery of, the commodity in
connection with their lines of business. This may be problematic as in
most spot metals trading virtually all contracts fail to meet these
requirements. As a result, although the courts’ interpretation of
Section 742(a) is unknown, Section 742(a) is likely to have a
significantly negative impact on the OTC cash precious metals industry.
Here too, it is essential that those who offer to be a counterparty to
OTC metals transactions seek professional help to discuss possible
operational and regulatory contingency plans.

The actual rule language exempts a transaction if it "results in actual delivery within 28 days or such other longer period as the Commission may determine by rule or regulation based upon the typical commercial practice in cash or spot markets for the commodity involved;" Alas, the commission has decided not to intervene and keep the exemption status window so small as to affect virtually all exchanges which transact in the gold and silver spot market.

More here:

Elimination of OTC Forex

Effective 90 days
from its inception, the Dodd-Frank Act bans most retail OTC forex
transactions. Section 742(c) of the Act states as follows:

…A person [which includes companies]
shall not offer to, or enter into with, a person that is not an
eligible contract participant, any agreement, contract, or transaction
in foreign currency except pursuant to a rule or regulation of a Federal
regulatory agency allowing the agreement, contract, or transaction
under such terms and conditions as the Federal regulatory agency shall
prescribe…

This provision will not come
into effect, however, if the CFTC or another eligible federal body
issues guidelines relating to the regulation of foreign currency within
90 days of its enactment. Registrants and the public are currently being
encouraged by the CFTC to provide insight into how the Act should be
enforced. See CFTC Rulemakings regarding OTC Derivatives located at the following website address,
under Section XX – Foreign Currency (Retail Off Exchange). It is
essential that OTC forex participants seek professional help to discuss
possible operational and regulatory contingency plans.

Elimination of OTC Metals

As
for OTC precious metals such as gold or silver, Section 742(a) of the
Act prohibits any person [which again includes companies]from entering
into, or offering to enter into, a transaction in any commodity with a
person that is not an eligible contract participant or an eligible
commercial entity, on a leveraged or margined basis. This provision
intends to expand the narrow so called “Zelener fix” in the Farm
Bill previously ratified by congress in 2008. The Farm Bill empowered
the CFTC to pursue anti-fraud actions involving rolling spot
transactions and/or other leveraged forex transactions without the need
to prove that they are futures contracts. The Dodd-Frank Act now expands
this authority to include virtually all retail cash commodity market
products that involve leverage or margin – in other words OTC precious
metals.

The prohibition of Section 742(a) does not apply,
however, if such a transaction results in actual delivery within 28
days, or creates an enforceable obligation to deliver between a seller
and a buyer that have the ability to deliver, and accept delivery of,
the commodity in connection with their lines of business. This may be
problematic as in most spot metals trading virtually all contracts fail
to meet these requirements. As a result, although the courts’
interpretation of Section 742(a) is unknown, Section 742(a) is likely to
have a significantly negative impact on the OTC cash precious metals
industry. Here too, it is essential that those who offer to be a
counterparty to OTC metals transactions seek professional help to
discuss possible operational and regulatory contingency plans.

Small Pool Exemption Eliminated

Pursuant to Section 403 of Act, theprivateadviserexemption, namelySection 203(b)(3) of the Investment Advisers Act of 1940 (“Advisers Act”), will be eliminated within one year of the Act’s effective date (July 21, 2011). Historically, many unregistered U.S. fund managers had relied on this exemption to avoid registration where they:

(1) had fewer than 15 clients in the past 12 months;

(2) do not hold themselves out generally to the public as investment advisers; and

(3) do not act as investment advisers to a registered investment company or business development company.

At present, advisers can treat the unregistered funds that they advise, rather than the investors in those funds, as their clients for purposes of
this exemption. A common practice has thus evolved whereby certain
advisers manage up to 14 unregistered funds without having to register
under the Advisers Act. Accordingly, the removal of this
exemption represents a significant shift in the regulatory landscape, as
this practice will no longer be allowable in approximately one year.

Also
an important consideration, the Dodd-Frank Act mandates new federal
registration and regulation thresholds based on the amount of assets a
manager has under management ("AUM"). Although not yet underway, it is
possible that various states may enact legislation designed to create a
similar registration framework for managers whose AUM fall beneath the
new federal levels.

Accredited Investor Qualifications

Section
413(a) of the Act alters the financial qualifications of who can be
considered an accredited investor, and thus a qualified as eligible
participant (“QEP”). Specifically, the revised accredited investor
standard includes only the following types of individuals:

1) A natural person whose individual net worth, or joint net worth with spouse, is at least $1,000,000, excluding the value of such investor's primary residence;

2) A
natural person who had individual income in excess of $200,000 in each
of the two most recent years or joint income with spouse in excess of
$300,000 in each of those years and a reasonable expectation of reaching
the same income level in the current year; or

3) A
director, executive officer, or general partner of the issuer of the
securities being offered or sold, or a director, executive officer, or
general partner of a general partner of that issuer.

Based on
this language, it is important to note that the revised accredited
investor standard only applies to new investors and does not cover
existing investors. However, additional subscriptions from existing
investors are generally treated as requiring confirmation of continuing
investor eligibility.

On July 27th, 2010, the SEC
provided additional clarity regarding the valuation of an individual’s
primary residence when calculating net worth. In particular, the SEC has
interpreted this provision as follows:

Section
413(a) of the Dodd-Frank Act does not define the term “value,” nor does
it address the treatment of mortgage and other indebtedness secured by
the residence for purposes of the net worth calculation…Pending
implementation of the changes to the Commission’s rules required by the
Act, the related amount of indebtedness secured by the primary residence
up to its fair market value may also be excluded. Indebtedness secured
by the residence in excess of the value of the home should be considered
a liability and deducted from the investor’s net worth.

h/t Ryan

 


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Sat, 06/18/2011 - 14:24 | Link to Comment I did it by Occident
I did it by Occident's picture

You still think this is a democracy where votes count for something? 

 

 

Sat, 06/18/2011 - 14:46 | Link to Comment chumbawamba
chumbawamba's picture

What surprises me is that people actually think they "vote" these days.  If you used an electronic voting machine then you didn't "vote", you played a video game.

There are no more elections.  Those are the charades that are held to give people the feeling that they voted.  Meahwhile, the selections are being made back in DC and Rome (but I repeat myself).

And yes, all the exit polling anomalies can just be explained away by closet racism and other previously unheard of phenomena.  Silly voters, Trix are for kids!

I am Chumbawamba.

Sat, 06/18/2011 - 15:17 | Link to Comment Sokhmate
Sokhmate's picture

+3.14159. Live free or DieBold.

Sat, 06/18/2011 - 19:40 | Link to Comment Ponzi Unit
Ponzi Unit's picture

As a friend onve said, if our vote meant anything they'd take it away from us...

Sat, 06/18/2011 - 22:57 | Link to Comment gall batter
gall batter's picture

Emma Goldman:  "If voting changed anything, they'd make it illegal."

Sat, 06/18/2011 - 23:45 | Link to Comment jeff montanye
jeff montanye's picture

"the most unpardonable sin in society is independence of thought."

Sat, 06/18/2011 - 13:34 | Link to Comment Quintus
Quintus's picture

I strongly suspect so.  Once again yesterday, as with every day this month, the largest by far stopper of Comex gold contracts (i.e taking physical delivery) was JPM's house (Prop) trading account.  Every day this month.  Why are the biggest metals manipulators on the planet pumping significant amounts of capital into a substantial physical hoard of a 'Stupid yellow metal that just sits in the basement gathering dust'?  I have some thoughts.

Sat, 06/18/2011 - 13:40 | Link to Comment Popo
Popo's picture

Actually, this puts us a bit further from the endgame. For the endgame to actually occur, metals need to be accessible.

Sat, 06/18/2011 - 13:51 | Link to Comment traderjoe
traderjoe's picture

Or so forbidden, that people realize that the government is herding them into fiat. And then the people actually do something about it...

Sat, 06/18/2011 - 14:47 | Link to Comment chumbawamba
chumbawamba's picture

Once again, proving that statist zionist douchebags are idiots.

I am Chumbawamba.

Sat, 06/18/2011 - 16:02 | Link to Comment Carl LaFong
Carl LaFong's picture

Try making a coherent comment wherein you don't sound like a fucking nazi puppet.....

Sat, 06/18/2011 - 19:44 | Link to Comment Vic Vinegar
Vic Vinegar's picture

I think his comment is quite coherent and he doesn't sound like a "fucking nazi puppet".

Chumba is right.  So how to deal with it?  How to deal with coming one day closer to your precious being outlawed?  Maybe you can watch "How to Deal".

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0319524/

 

Sun, 06/19/2011 - 05:27 | Link to Comment TerraHertz
TerraHertz's picture

http://www.youtube.com/v/acLW1vFO-2Q   George Carlin - the American Dream
Warning - language (for those who care)

http://youtu.be/bO0-u900OG4
George Carlin - How to recover the American dream.

Personally, I liked very much the last few sentences of the movie Sucker Punch.
"You have all the weapons you need. Now FIGHT!"

Sat, 06/18/2011 - 23:20 | Link to Comment Bananamerican
Bananamerican's picture

:Try making a coherent comment wherein you don't sound like a fucking nazi puppet....." You may as well ask him to stop playing ventriloquist with his foreskin....

Sat, 06/18/2011 - 23:51 | Link to Comment jeff montanye
jeff montanye's picture

oooo you said foreskin!!  my favorite jewish foreskin lore factoid is that you may retain it if two (not one) of your brothers were killed by circumcision.  sweet.

Sat, 06/18/2011 - 17:44 | Link to Comment silver4me
silver4me's picture

Metals are still accessible. ???

Sat, 06/18/2011 - 13:57 | Link to Comment dracos_ghost
dracos_ghost's picture

QE3? Force hard asset to soft asset rotation.

Sat, 06/18/2011 - 13:33 | Link to Comment slow_roast
slow_roast's picture

To stop the unraveling.

Without alternatives(such as gold and silver) there is far less chance is large-scale withdrawals from banks; what other monetary instrument would you be able to convert your FRNs into?

This will just push money into some other avene the same way margin hikes pushed folks like me away from trading $XXX,000s of silver Futures straight into buying monster boxes. 

It will all end badly for those who hold cash thinking it will continue to hold its value.  It won't.

Sat, 06/18/2011 - 14:51 | Link to Comment Urban Redneck
Urban Redneck's picture

There's always the Russian option - flatscreen TV's and cases of vodka. 

Sun, 06/19/2011 - 07:53 | Link to Comment boooyaaaah
boooyaaaah's picture

Thanks I needed That comment

Sat, 06/18/2011 - 14:52 | Link to Comment SilverIsKing
SilverIsKing's picture

Besides PMs, you can take your cash to any bank that offers currency exchange and exchange your FRNs to another brand of fiat, one that is safer than the USD.  It will cost around 5% and you'll still be in fiat but the Swiss Franc or Aussie Dollar has got to be a much better alternative than the USD.

Sat, 06/18/2011 - 15:58 | Link to Comment slow_roast
slow_roast's picture

Just to point out something that another member of this board pointed out on another post, Everbank lets you link a checking account to a Forex account and literally hold your money in foreign currencies; you can swap them back to USDs as needed.  They have have the CNY which is extremely unlikely to depreciate against the USD since the 'munnists have it tethered.

Sat, 06/18/2011 - 18:56 | Link to Comment Cull Morgan
Cull Morgan's picture

When the Icelandic krone was in free fall, Everbank closed all accounts in that currency without asking affected customers for permission. They managed to do it at the pessimal time. Had they waited a couple of days, they could have halved their customers losses.

There was a law suit, but I don't know how it ended. I had learned enough to decide I wouldn't open an account with them. YMMV.

Sat, 06/18/2011 - 20:45 | Link to Comment Papasmurf
Papasmurf's picture

I looked into them and concluded the same thing. 

Sat, 06/18/2011 - 18:14 | Link to Comment PaperBear
PaperBear's picture

Almost all central banks have some of their foreign reserves in USD so their currencies will take a hit when the USD dies.

Sat, 06/18/2011 - 17:34 | Link to Comment soccerballtux
soccerballtux's picture

bitcoins are anonymous and there will be a fixed number of them.

You can ensure delivery instantly, too.

Sun, 06/19/2011 - 04:00 | Link to Comment Voluntary Exchange
Voluntary Exchange's picture

Not sure why this post got junked. Bitcoin does have some disadvantages, but it has some serious advantages too: 

A genuine free market currency that can't be inflated (in fact has built in deflation), potentially unlimited divisibility, is very very difficult to forge or cheat, has almost anonymous usage (use tor if you want privacy),  has ZERO transaction costs, fast transactions,  and that is a lot going for it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ygoqDBfjimM&NR=1

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pcchQs2YDZ0

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s_VewfiuCao

Sun, 06/19/2011 - 04:29 | Link to Comment Prometheus418
Prometheus418's picture

+1 trillion (denominated in FRNs) for being the first bitcoin advocate that I have seen that did not call everyone an uneducated luddite retard.

Sun, 06/19/2011 - 07:08 | Link to Comment destraht
destraht's picture

Cryptographic currency is going to have a great future.  Opponents of bitcoin are too serious about this current implementation.  Already the source code has been used to create an alternative to DNS called namecoin.  This demonstrates the power of this idea.

Sat, 06/18/2011 - 13:28 | Link to Comment jomama
jomama's picture

wow. well, i'm not totally heartbroken as when investing in gold and silver, the price of the said metal needs to appreciate at least 28% to cover the sales taxes when selling it back for a medium of exchange.  add the seller's premium, and it's easily 35-38% that the spot price needs to reach just to break even...

Sat, 06/18/2011 - 13:34 | Link to Comment EscapeKey
EscapeKey's picture

Uh, what? Sales taxes = 0%. Commission; 2-7%, depending on dealer.

Sat, 06/18/2011 - 13:41 | Link to Comment slow_roast
slow_roast's picture

I believe he/she was referring to the taxable income on a gain from sale of metals.  Tax is on gains, NOT the entire sale price; that would make no sense.

 

Sat, 06/18/2011 - 13:45 | Link to Comment EscapeKey
EscapeKey's picture

So he is suggesting capital gains does not apply to income gained from share trading, then?

Still makes no sense.

Sat, 06/18/2011 - 13:44 | Link to Comment jomama
jomama's picture

so you're telling me that every 20oz. of Au I buy here and there at different prices every time are all tracked to the penny in some database?  

and potentially at that moment I go to sell them en masse, that database is going to track all the gains on each oz. from different distributors/buyers?  

does this database also consider the 'starting' price of taxable gains as the spot price that i bought the metal sans the seller's premium? 

that seems like a helluva lot of data for the IRS to audit for a small timer like me.

Sat, 06/18/2011 - 13:46 | Link to Comment EscapeKey
EscapeKey's picture

You might want to keep your receipts for your purchases so you can document the price.

Sat, 06/18/2011 - 13:56 | Link to Comment BobPaulson
BobPaulson's picture

I still don't understand all this talk of tax and declaring and receipts. Walk into store with pile of cash, walk out with gold, don't tell the guy your name.

Sat, 06/18/2011 - 14:06 | Link to Comment Boston
Boston's picture

Shhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!

Sat, 06/18/2011 - 14:31 | Link to Comment jomama
jomama's picture

which is along the lines of why i asked the question in the first place.  suppose you can find that dealer that trades all that cash for his metal with no paper trail... how can you sell it back and not pay the full 28% of its value when you have no evidence of buying it at unknown price?

Sat, 06/18/2011 - 15:43 | Link to Comment slow_roast
slow_roast's picture

And when you go to sell it and the government assumes you got it free, therefore you profit is the price of gold upon sale back to a dealer since you had to file tax forms on the sale of it you'll be paying taxes on the full amount, not the gains.

Sat, 06/18/2011 - 16:31 | Link to Comment Jendrzejczyk
Jendrzejczyk's picture

The government can not just assume you got it for free.

Surely you could produce a receipt to prove you bought it for more than than you sold it for. Could you then take that as a loss on your taxes?

 

Sat, 06/18/2011 - 16:54 | Link to Comment RockyRacoon
RockyRacoon's picture

All the more reason to buy fungible silver like American Silver Eagles. 

Who knows when you bought what?

Sat, 06/18/2011 - 18:11 | Link to Comment Boxed Merlot
Boxed Merlot's picture

Date stamps on coinage (and fiat for that matter), aren't there for nothing.  A few easy examples of intrinsic, face and nominal/numismatic valuation bleed throughs would be 1964 and 1971. 

 

Constitutional requirements of weights and purities of coinage are tied to dated treasury products as well.  Whether actual coinage, printed legal tender and the ludicrous interest bearing notes currently being traded for privately produced frns, dates always provide the basic time line needed to establish a (legal) method to unwind the trade.

Sat, 06/18/2011 - 21:41 | Link to Comment nmewn
nmewn's picture

All a date stamp is, is to affirm when it came into being, not when it came into your possession.

Same with cars, boats or anything else. I like transacting in cash and a handshake for everything...it has already been taxed once and is much more honest ;-)

Sat, 06/18/2011 - 15:46 | Link to Comment SilverDosed
SilverDosed's picture

...and the stores love it because they are busy buying up scrap by the truckload but need cash to do it.

Sat, 06/18/2011 - 15:49 | Link to Comment Noah Vail
Noah Vail's picture

Sure, up to the new $600 reporting rule. You going to need to make a lot of under 600 purchases to get anywhere.

Sun, 06/19/2011 - 11:09 | Link to Comment RockyRacoon
RockyRacoon's picture

Didn't happen, Dude.   Get current.

Sat, 06/18/2011 - 14:17 | Link to Comment Raymond Reason
Raymond Reason's picture

When i had a business, the govt would routinely "assume" a cost basis for Use Tax, etc. unless i could document otherwise. 

But tracking sales of PMs is as difficult as tracking cash.

Sat, 06/18/2011 - 23:34 | Link to Comment TheJudge2012
TheJudge2012's picture

Use tax is interstate sales tax by another name. They don't want any info on whether you used it, stored or tossed it. Interstate commerce is the Federal govts jurisdiction.

Sat, 06/18/2011 - 14:54 | Link to Comment ouchtouch
ouchtouch's picture

The IRS assumes that 100% of the sale price is gain if you cannot prove what you actually paid.  People have been trying to cheat on their taxes for a long time; they usually get caught because they live a lifestyle inconsistent with their claimed income.

That's why I never plan on selling my non-Roth physical.  For expenses during my lifetime, the metal in my Roth IRA vault, and CEF and GTU.

Sat, 06/18/2011 - 15:34 | Link to Comment Hulk
Hulk's picture

Due to the ongoing devaluation of the dollar, there are no actual gains and therefore the tax basis is zero, no matter what the sale price...(which, in all seriousness, makes taxing the gains on pm's quite insidious. We are endlessly paying for government fuckups)

 

Sat, 06/18/2011 - 20:43 | Link to Comment Sunshine n Lollipops
Sunshine n Lollipops's picture

We are endlessly paying for government fuckups

We are endlessly paying for a fucked up government.

There. Fixed it .


Sun, 06/19/2011 - 13:52 | Link to Comment Hulk
Hulk's picture

Greatly appreciated! 

Sun, 06/19/2011 - 03:21 | Link to Comment Misstrial
Misstrial's picture

Just so that you know, Eagles are exempt from taxes on resale by the IRS due to their official bullion coin status. Eagles only. Buffaloes not included.

~Misstrial

Sun, 06/19/2011 - 12:33 | Link to Comment jomama
jomama's picture

WAT?  really?  is there some reference for this?

Sat, 06/18/2011 - 20:28 | Link to Comment Tedster
Tedster's picture

Uh, hate to break it to you, but IRS doesn't operate that way. This is true whether stock or anything else.

If you can't provide proof of cost basis, they assume your cost basis was Zero, and tax accordingly.

Sat, 06/18/2011 - 21:09 | Link to Comment jomama
jomama's picture

exactly, which is why i posted my first (heavily junked) comment.

i've been fortunate enough to pay cash for my purchases, with no paper trail, out of being paranoid.   now it seems i'll have to pay the full 28% (on top of the dealer markup) in capital gains taxes as a penalty for that.

Sat, 06/18/2011 - 23:26 | Link to Comment Botox4U2
Botox4U2's picture

Uh....hate to break it to YOU! When the shit hits the fan there is no IRS. The IRS will not survive a breakdown in government and civil order.  One thing I don't understand is why people are even considering selling unless they absolutely have to. Gold and silver are protections against all manner of events.  Those who are trading it are part of the problem.

Buy the metals and sock them away in a safe place. Remember there is no tax on .999 products so buy them.

Sun, 06/19/2011 - 07:15 | Link to Comment destraht
destraht's picture

> Remember there is no tax on .999 products so buy them.

Unless you are a bitch ass like me living in Calfornia where they tax metal purchases smaller than $1500 and the big boys ride free.  Seriously.

Sat, 06/18/2011 - 22:07 | Link to Comment cranky-old-geezer
cranky-old-geezer's picture

If you hold Au /Ag for future use as a means of exchange for groceries, etc, I can't see where any tax implications would adhere.

Sat, 06/18/2011 - 13:28 | Link to Comment The spam fritter
The spam fritter's picture

Big stuff ahead..... this is the clearest warning so far.  Time to redouble prep efforts for the coming shit storm.

Sat, 06/18/2011 - 13:45 | Link to Comment CPL
CPL's picture

Well this is a fait d'accompli, with the legislation in April 2011 to seize food and produce along with this.  PLUS the fact USPS isn't receiving any Canadian mail until Canada post is relevant and making money or something like that.

 

Well, it means buy as much of it as you can right now because other than a visit to Canadaor Mexico.  nobody in the US is buying silver or gold for a while.

Sat, 06/18/2011 - 13:55 | Link to Comment darkpool2
darkpool2's picture

sounds like a business opportunity here. Huge US demand to get out of their shit fiat+ offshore entrepreneurs=gold ( pun definitely intended) But definitely raising the risk stakes for US residents

Sat, 06/18/2011 - 14:29 | Link to Comment I did it by Occident
I did it by Occident's picture

maybe the Mexican cartels will diversify into PM smuggling? 

Sat, 06/18/2011 - 15:45 | Link to Comment SilverDosed
SilverDosed's picture

Doubtful as they're sitting on mountains of paper which I assume they know is worthless just by the sheer amount of it they have. I'm sure they're on the buying end of the PM's game bigtime.

Sun, 06/19/2011 - 07:24 | Link to Comment destraht
destraht's picture

Last time I was in Nicaragua in about the middle of the country there were some questionable types buying gold.  Seems to me like gold is a nice way to diversify out of some of that paper. Basically it would be a four stop tour.

Sat, 06/18/2011 - 14:53 | Link to Comment Oh regional Indian
Oh regional Indian's picture

i'd offered to run a physical only holding fund here in India. If anyone is still interested, let me know.

You can find me.

ORI

http://aadivaahan.wordpress.com/2011/06/17/nuclear-american-cross-other-thoughts/

Sat, 06/18/2011 - 21:14 | Link to Comment GoinFawr
GoinFawr's picture


!
Hmmmm...

Sat, 06/18/2011 - 13:28 | Link to Comment Quintus
Quintus's picture

Government to Public: "Now hear this!  You WILL NOT attempt to protect yourself from our depredations and monetary debasement by fleeing to real money.  On pain of imprisonment.  You must remain fully invested in paper assets until such time as we see fit to take them from you, first by inflation, then by deflation.  That is all - you may now return to your regularly scheduled reality TV show."

Sat, 06/18/2011 - 13:32 | Link to Comment EscapeKey
EscapeKey's picture

You are allowed to take shelter in government sponspored CPI-linked bonds. Totally immune from inflation.

Why would anyone want to own this barbatic metal, anyway? It's for your own good we remove your trading access; it is only bound to confuse the investment public.

Sat, 06/18/2011 - 13:36 | Link to Comment Quintus
Quintus's picture

Totally immune from what the government says inflation is.  Reality is a whole other matter.

Sat, 06/18/2011 - 13:40 | Link to Comment EscapeKey
EscapeKey's picture

Cue 500 Keynesian economists justifying a 0.108 weight for food in the index, despite food costs rocketing up. Oh, it's because of substitution. Soon, we'll all eat cardboard cutouts of delicious looking steaks.

I was sitting thinking about the imputations to the GDP - you know, if you own your own home, they'll add some value they deem is the rental value to the GDP. Isn't that effectively couting the same revenue double, as the homeowner couldn't otherwise spend that income on other items?

Sat, 06/18/2011 - 15:32 | Link to Comment Chappaquiddick
Chappaquiddick's picture

Well they've got to bump this number up somehow - it sure as hell won't get up there the good old fashioned way - hard work and free market enterprise.

You know, I suppose this latest move is indicative of the shit storm as a whole - complete.  Bear with me while I clarify....they've stolen all the gold and silver ..... so there's no fucking way the US is headed back to a gold and silver standard.  Get it.

However, as the rest of the world still can go to this hard money standard, and they certainly need to get there rather quickly, the fraud being played out on the US reveals its true proportions - complete.  There's nothing left - everything, every last penny is gone.

Wow.  TIMBER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Sat, 06/18/2011 - 19:43 | Link to Comment slewie the pi-rat
slewie the pi-rat's picture

accept no substitutes!  insist on the real E_K!

Sat, 06/18/2011 - 13:25 | Link to Comment yabyum
yabyum's picture

Goat, Maybe a great way to stimulate metals, ie, "look what the bastards are doing now, better git sum"

Sat, 06/18/2011 - 13:58 | Link to Comment Cheesy Bastard
Cheesy Bastard's picture

 

Most of the bastards I know already have some metal.  Most of the rest of the people have hit the snooze button so many times that being any later won't make a difference.

Sat, 06/18/2011 - 17:07 | Link to Comment Stoploss
Stoploss's picture

What about Sprott PHYS? Or is that fucked too?

Wed, 06/22/2011 - 13:27 | Link to Comment Geoff-UK
Geoff-UK's picture

If you don't have the actual coins in an actual safe in your actual home--you're fooked.

 

 

Sat, 06/18/2011 - 13:29 | Link to Comment High Plains Drifter
High Plains Drifter's picture

what does this portend?  that we cannot legally own gold and silver coins etc? 

Sat, 06/18/2011 - 13:38 | Link to Comment CaptFufflePants
CaptFufflePants's picture

Yes that is my question. This artcile makes me more confused. Is this saying in 1 month time itr will be illigial for me to buy gold or silver? I am confused.

Sat, 06/18/2011 - 14:01 | Link to Comment zuuuueri
zuuuueri's picture

it will be illegal for you to open futures positions where you can't take delivery within 28 days.. since in practical terms this means basically any futures positions... why not just directly buy the physical (and indeed why wait til july?) 

One thing this will do is relieve the pressure on the cartel banks. Basically the futures exchanges will be the private domain of the blessed or well connected, who can be trusted to 'manage' the price as they like. 

One casualty will be that the physical market, which currently still looks to the futures markets for price discovery, will sooner or later find out that this doesnt work anymore. In that meantime, there will be bad or incorrect price signals from the more openly manipulated futures market to the physical market, and you can expect the physical market to be more confused and fragmented. 

It will also make it more difficult for private investors to buy physical through those exchanges. Hard to take delivery if you're not allowed to open a position.

It's one more step on the road to hell, for sure. 

I fear if people trying to preserve their hard earned wealth with gold or silver are too frustrated in that effort, they might look to lead as an alternative investment. 

 

 

Sat, 06/18/2011 - 14:33 | Link to Comment I did it by Occident
I did it by Occident's picture

...and brass.

well at least guns are still not outlawed...yet.  I'm sure they'll find a way eventually.  Better to buy now. 

 

 

Sat, 06/18/2011 - 17:35 | Link to Comment macholatte
macholatte's picture

it will be illegal for you to open futures positions where you can't take delivery within 28 days.. since in practical terms this means basically any futures positions...

 

IMHO this law applies to ALL contracts, futures included, and one MUST take delivery or be in violation.

[from ZH article above]

New CEA Section 2(c)(2)(D) – Concerning Spot Commodities (Metals)

The central import of new CEA Section 2(c)(2)(D) is to broaden the CFTC’s power with respect to retail commodity transactions.  Essentially any spot commodities transaction (i.e. spot metals) will be subject to CFTC jurisdiction and rulemaking authority.  There is an exemption for commodities which are actually delivered within 28 days.  While the CFTC wanted an exemption in which commodities would need to be delivered within 2 days, various coin collectors were able to lobby congress for a longer delivery period (see here).

 

 

Sat, 06/18/2011 - 17:43 | Link to Comment Stoploss
Stoploss's picture

That helps, thanks.  I see the words gold, silver, illegal, in the same sentence and shit immediately starts to run down my leg on a staurday evening.

Looks like i need to do some flag changing on the front of the property.

It's still red, white and blue, just with less stars and a little different layout. ;)

Sat, 06/18/2011 - 18:19 | Link to Comment Prometheus418
Prometheus418's picture

Mine's yellow, and has a rattlesnake on it.

Sat, 06/18/2011 - 19:14 | Link to Comment WaterWings
WaterWings's picture

+1

I no longer consent to be governed.

Sat, 06/18/2011 - 21:48 | Link to Comment nmewn
nmewn's picture

+2

Least of all by hacks & frauds who seem to enjoy changing the rules of governance for their own enrichment on a daily basis.

Sun, 06/19/2011 - 11:56 | Link to Comment Tekrunner
Tekrunner's picture

Except that futures aren't OTC, they're exchange-traded. If anything this should cause futures volume to go up.

Sat, 06/18/2011 - 15:59 | Link to Comment Drag Racer
Drag Racer's picture

from what I understand, if the contract is for physical delivery within 1 month this does not apply. you can still by metal, just not in paper form.

Sat, 06/18/2011 - 21:14 | Link to Comment Tuco Benedicto ...
Tuco Benedicto Pacifico Juan Maria Ramirez's picture

No, this has to do with paper transactions.  The title of this story is misleading. It should make a reference to "paper" "OTC" markets.  Title makes it sound like it deals with physical metal sales "over the counter" at your local coin shop.  We are not there "yet"!

Sun, 06/19/2011 - 01:54 | Link to Comment oldmanagain
oldmanagain's picture

+1

Sat, 06/18/2011 - 13:30 | Link to Comment DB Cooper
DB Cooper's picture

I guess I almost caused another financial crisis buying 20 oz gold in Euros last week.

Sat, 06/18/2011 - 13:33 | Link to Comment Cheeky Bastard
Cheeky Bastard's picture

What, forwards too?

Sat, 06/18/2011 - 13:30 | Link to Comment John McCloy
John McCloy's picture

As expected this bill was a fraud all along meant only to further consolidate banking power. Ron Paul should have a field day with this during the debates.

Sat, 06/18/2011 - 13:37 | Link to Comment EscapeKey
EscapeKey's picture

Matters little when no-one else pays any attention to him. Sadly.

Sat, 06/18/2011 - 13:35 | Link to Comment John McCloy
John McCloy's picture

Sadly..but we can keep fighting can we not? 

Sat, 06/18/2011 - 15:23 | Link to Comment iLoveMisesToPieces
iLoveMisesToPieces's picture

"Educate and inform the whole mass of the people... They are the only sure reliance for the preservation of our liberty."

Thomas Jefferson

Sat, 06/18/2011 - 15:26 | Link to Comment Shell Game
Shell Game's picture

We can and we must. In fact, we have to fight with the belief that we can win, not resigned to defeat. You don't go into battle with any other frame of mind. Onward and upward, friends..

Sat, 06/18/2011 - 17:22 | Link to Comment iLoveMisesToPieces
iLoveMisesToPieces's picture

Exactly.  These people are soft tyrants.  The essence of their power is everyone believing they are powerless.  Reject the dollar and other fiat currencies and they're cut off.  I have a real hard time believing enough military/law enforcement are down with going scorched earth on their own citizens.

Sat, 06/18/2011 - 17:42 | Link to Comment Shell Game
Shell Game's picture

Agreed, on all counts. This is 98% psyops..

Sat, 06/18/2011 - 21:13 | Link to Comment Tuco Benedicto ...
Tuco Benedicto Pacifico Juan Maria Ramirez's picture

If they are "soft tyrants" the twin towers were "soft targets".

 

Tuco

Sat, 06/18/2011 - 13:36 | Link to Comment scratch_and_sniff
scratch_and_sniff's picture

i thought these rules were supposed to help retail investors, they have made one of my fx brokers(canadian) change to FIFO positioning rules - and just ruined a good platform in with the bargain, and now this, which i am stroking my chin over to be honest, why would they do this?

Sat, 06/18/2011 - 13:39 | Link to Comment Cheeky Bastard
Cheeky Bastard's picture

To centralize trading and clearing. Market makers, clearinghouses and exchanges are the ones that stand to benefit, and given that usually means cartelization (especially in commodities and such), you're pretty much fucked, and will bear increased costs + all the usual things you're accustomed to endure now when you trade on equity markets. Front-running, misquoting etc etc. I bet they won't touch forwards, because those are their primary tools to manipulate supply/demand, and thus influence the price, while at the same time erradicating uncertainty that retail investors bring. 

Sat, 06/18/2011 - 14:04 | Link to Comment scratch_and_sniff
scratch_and_sniff's picture

Ok i get you, but what about the FIFO rules, who are they supposed to benefit, FX is still OTC, so FIFO is just a blatant attempt to keep people stuck in positions if you ask me, are they using the old adage(a false one in my experience) "close your losers first", because thats horseshit, i dont look favourably upon two old bastards telling me how to trade.

As for PM's, there must be new PM "products" coming out some time soon then for the US - i rarely(once in a blue moon) trade PM's through a broker, (im in UK) but i dont think i will bother now. I suppose its only a matter of time before there is only one western clearing house at the rate they are merging.

Sat, 06/18/2011 - 14:17 | Link to Comment Cheeky Bastard
Cheeky Bastard's picture

Isn't FIFO Forex exclusive? This is re: PM OTC trading. I'm not sure if FIFO applies there (I don't trade either, not FX, not PMs). I'm just interested if forwards will still be OTC (most probably since both parties are institutions), but that leaves the question of market manipulation. A PM options trader on Twitter had provided a good explanation how such mechanism works (especially in Silver).

Sat, 06/18/2011 - 13:45 | Link to Comment CPL
CPL's picture

It means we're all in big trouble is what this means.  Means it's time to stall, move and obfuscate.  After that, the selections are hide or fight.

Sat, 06/18/2011 - 13:34 | Link to Comment plocequ1
plocequ1's picture

Does the Maxkeismeister know about this?

Sat, 06/18/2011 - 14:36 | Link to Comment jomama
jomama's picture

i'm going to go out on a limb here and assume he'll go on a semi-maniacal tirade about it, like he does about everything else under the sun

Sat, 06/18/2011 - 21:09 | Link to Comment Tuco Benedicto ...
Tuco Benedicto Pacifico Juan Maria Ramirez's picture

"Resistance to tyrants is obedience to God."   --Thomas Jefferson

Max is maniacal about liberty, not "everything under the sun" son!

 

Tuco Benedicto Pacifico Juan Maria Ramirez

Sun, 06/19/2011 - 12:39 | Link to Comment jomama
jomama's picture

sure, it's all about liberty.  but you gotta admit his over the top tantrums are his schtick.

Sat, 06/18/2011 - 13:37 | Link to Comment Bwahaha WAGFDSMB
Bwahaha WAGFDSMB's picture
Anonymous said...

Meant to apply to trading on margin on products without physical delivery.

This is the key - basically from a quick skim it appears that it's going to be illegal to trade paper where there's no possibility of actually taking delivery within 28 days. So all of those online forex dealers that allow gold trading on margin won't be able to take on US customers.

Sat, 06/18/2011 - 13:59 | Link to Comment Quintus
Quintus's picture

".....illegal to trade paper where there's no possibility of actually taking delivery within 28 days."

 

Well that's Comex fucked then in a very short time, when their silver stocks finally stop declining at zero oz.

Sat, 06/18/2011 - 14:13 | Link to Comment Harbourcity
Harbourcity's picture

Good point.  That said, is it illegal to trade on what you can deliver that day or can you trade on what you can potentially deliver depending on your access to physical over a 28 day period?

 

Sat, 06/18/2011 - 15:12 | Link to Comment Quintus
Quintus's picture

More to the point - since there is a widespread suspicion (based on the lack of movement in and out of dealer inventory) that Comex is actually settling contracts with SLV and GLD shares, does that count as 'Physical' for the purposes of this legislation?  I would say it doesn't since you need 100,000 shares of these ETFs in order to extract physical from the custodians.

Sat, 06/18/2011 - 15:20 | Link to Comment AgShaman
AgShaman's picture

I thought it was 50k?

Sun, 06/19/2011 - 13:38 | Link to Comment Quintus
Quintus's picture

You are correct.  I do not go anywhere near SLV myself, and quoted an incorrect figure.  Nevertheless, 50k shares is a large enough sum to mean that unless you are a big player (and have somewhere to store 1.7 tons of metal) you are, realistically, not able to get physical within 28 days if Comex settles your futures contracts in SLV shares.

Sun, 06/19/2011 - 13:45 | Link to Comment AgShaman
AgShaman's picture

No worries...I knew what you were puttin' down and followed along.

With this Forex development....people should be watching the daily volume/OI numbers at both the Comex and the SLV....since it's less than 2 weeks until first day notice for a primary delivery month for Silver.

"Cloud Seeding" 'Bits-sez'

Group 11....bring it home to Papa! (the fireworks and vola-shill-ity that is)

Sat, 06/18/2011 - 16:45 | Link to Comment gwar5
gwar5's picture

Link to an article on GATA today reported traders were settling with 30% premiums for not taking delivery.

Sorry I don't have the link here for you.

Sat, 06/18/2011 - 18:07 | Link to Comment AgShaman
AgShaman's picture

That's old news

Fuck those traders

They could've burned down the Comex and forced #47 to a real "Parabolic Apocalypse" had their greed not corrupted them long ago.

They are no better than the Bullion Banks on the other side....all lover of fiats and the 'status quo' keeping serfs locked in their slave class.

They missed their opportunity....and the "First Parasite" has adjusted accordingly and reconfigured to postpone the inevitable.

The US Dinar will become "Pip" as a result...and become and unwitting benefactor following this dynamic.

Take a look around....the mirage you see across the wasteland is not a vanishing body of water....it's an ocean of endless casinos....engineered to suck BTU's out of your servile battery units...and give you the illusion that you have some measure of control over your destiny.

Sat, 06/18/2011 - 13:58 | Link to Comment EscapeKey
EscapeKey's picture

Big players are exempt (surprise!):


Section 413(a) of the Act alters the financial qualifications of who can be considered an accredited investor, and qualified as eligible participant ("QEP"). Specifically, the revised accredited investor standard includes only the following types of individuals:

1) A natural person whose individual net worth, or joint net worth with spouse, is at least $1,000,000, excluding the value of such investor's primary residence;

2) A natural person who had individual income in excess of $200,000 in each of the two most recent years or joint income with spouse in excess of $300,000 in each of those years and a reasonable expectation of reaching the same income level in the current year; or

3) A director, executive officer, or general partner of the issuer of the securities being offered or sold, or a director, executive officer, or general partner of a general partner of that issuer.

Sat, 06/18/2011 - 15:27 | Link to Comment AGoldhamster
AGoldhamster's picture

as already stated above ...

after july 15th it's official now - a 2 class society

Wed, 06/22/2011 - 13:30 | Link to Comment Geoff-UK
Geoff-UK's picture

Politicians:  "we passed these restrictions to "protect" the little investor from making a mistake.  They can't be trusted to invest their own money on these "speculative" positions in gold and silver."

 

Media:  "Thank you for your work and concern for the middle class, Senator Dodd."

Sat, 06/18/2011 - 13:38 | Link to Comment Chuck Norris
Chuck Norris's picture

When I can't buy gold and silver OTC I'll be buying ammunition instead.  Of course until that is outlawed

Sat, 06/18/2011 - 13:41 | Link to Comment ThirdCoastSurfer
ThirdCoastSurfer's picture

Looks like Lulzsec has struck again!

Sat, 06/18/2011 - 13:45 | Link to Comment YHC-FTSE
YHC-FTSE's picture

I knew they would try anything to keep the fiat in demand, but wow, I would never have thought the American government would actively ban its people from owning more silver and gold instead of the USD. 

 

There cannot be a clearer indication of desperation. 

Sat, 06/18/2011 - 13:47 | Link to Comment zuuuueri
zuuuueri's picture

why would you have never thought they'd do that? in fact they already did it once.

 

Sat, 06/18/2011 - 14:26 | Link to Comment YHC-FTSE
YHC-FTSE's picture

Well, because it's something I thought only a tinpot banana republic in Africa would do. 

Sun, 06/19/2011 - 04:35 | Link to Comment Prometheus418
Prometheus418's picture

Did you not get the memo?

Sun, 06/19/2011 - 07:39 | Link to Comment destraht
destraht's picture

We are about to become a cotton republic.

He didn't get the memo.

Sun, 06/19/2011 - 20:23 | Link to Comment YHC-FTSE
YHC-FTSE's picture

Now that new details have been added to the flippant headline, it doesn't seem that bad yet. Interesting for the professional traders who can no longer leverage their positions, and perhaps the small timers with physical to sell, but buyers willing to take possession are not affected - well, only to the extent that they'll have to go elsewhere. 

Sat, 06/18/2011 - 13:46 | Link to Comment darkpool2
darkpool2's picture

and to think I once aspired to emigrate to the US----thank god it proved not to be an option. Best outcome ever.....you guys are so fucked.

Sat, 06/18/2011 - 13:56 | Link to Comment RafterManFMJ
RafterManFMJ's picture

Hey, can I come live with you? I can sleep on the floor till I get my panhandling business built.

Sat, 06/18/2011 - 14:59 | Link to Comment onarga74
onarga74's picture

You're in luck. There's a new franchise here in Oregon that sells the signs in all kinds of different shapes and styles. A friend bought 4 of them.  The default sign has God Bless at the bottom. You fill in the rest. They are discussing the possibility of  launching one that begins with Margin Call. There arent any available in Spanish or other languages as the only market is white people.

Sat, 06/18/2011 - 18:45 | Link to Comment The Fonz
The Fonz's picture

Ah yes I am the proud owner of the "fashionably worn" cardboard sign begining with "Margin Call" and ending in "willing to work". This premium sign comes with a 5th of Monarch vodka and a premium "easy grip" marker to complete the sign!

Sat, 06/18/2011 - 21:52 | Link to Comment Ponzi Unit
Ponzi Unit's picture

Nice!

Sat, 06/18/2011 - 21:49 | Link to Comment Ponzi Unit
Ponzi Unit's picture

Nice!

Sat, 06/18/2011 - 21:49 | Link to Comment Ponzi Unit
Ponzi Unit's picture

Nice!

Sat, 06/18/2011 - 14:06 | Link to Comment AG BCN
AG BCN's picture

There was a time that people wanted to move to the US, now everyone realises it's a shit hole it's not so popular other than with Latin American immigrants, You would be lucky to find a person in Barcelona who would swap, unless it was for a fantastic career opportunity, and that's even with the 20% unemployment here. As soon as you enter the US the immigration people help you decide that you never want to return.

Sat, 06/18/2011 - 14:20 | Link to Comment Falling-Knife
Falling-Knife's picture

We have it set up that way. Now you get the picture...

Sat, 06/18/2011 - 16:36 | Link to Comment gwar5
gwar5's picture

America was a great place. But it must be destroyed by TPTB to disappear it as an alternative to what will come next.

Sun, 06/19/2011 - 07:43 | Link to Comment destraht
destraht's picture

Thats harsh man.  There are still a few nice city states like Santa Barbara.

Sat, 06/18/2011 - 14:15 | Link to Comment Falling-Knife
Falling-Knife's picture

That's O K that you did not come here to USA.  Were better off than any other Country on Earth.  Remember, we have taken over The World in only 300 years, we are not going to give it back-and no country, radical group or dictator will ever be able to defeat us.  The US Dollar is and always will be the world's reserve currency-not Gold or Chinese Juan, or anything else.  Our Dollars equal POWER.  So stay where you are, but if you want Oil, you gotta buy in US Dollars.  ALL Oil belongs to USA, if you don't believe it, just ask Iraq, Saudi Arabia, South America or CHINA.  Don't fool yourself, we OWN you.  As always, Military Might decides who lives and who doesn't, who is rich and who is not, is is sick and who is healed, and most importantly- What God is worshiped!  

Sat, 06/18/2011 - 14:24 | Link to Comment Cheeky Bastard
Cheeky Bastard's picture

Actually ... no. You're wrong on every possible count. Read more, especially on significance of military power in post-USSR global environment. Seriously, what you just wrote is embarassing and on a level of a 3 yo. 

Sat, 06/18/2011 - 14:26 | Link to Comment Falling-Knife
Falling-Knife's picture

You have not point to you argument, Russia is no threat, they can't even feed themselves.  I am not concerned what is embarrassing to you, if you don't like it here then leave; if you don't live here, then don't visit...But if you need OIL you gotta have US Dollars.  Educate yourself and quit using chat rooms and message boards to get your infantile opinions made for you, as opposed to understanding true Power...

Sat, 06/18/2011 - 15:06 | Link to Comment Cheeky Bastard
Cheeky Bastard's picture

Son ... you've been here for 4 weeks. I don't have to explain shit to you, OK? I'm *stating* that you do not have even the most rudimentary knowledge of geoeconomics, geopolitics or the dynamic nature of warfare and that it's not a static category of human conditions, but an attribute of it that evolves (among 1000 other things I'm sure you know nothing about). Second of all, with a high degree of certainty I can claim I'm better educated and more experienced in these issues than you will ever be. So, calm down, show some respect and shut the fuck up with the nationalistic bullshit and the Wilsonian worldview that was proven invalid in cca. 1918. Go to a library, just stop the trolling. Furthermore, I'll give you a bit of a hand here and point you to 2 basic books you should've read if you want to have some authority on the issues we're discussing here; "Empire; Hardt/Negri" and "The End of Dreams and Return of History; Kagan.". Now, when you're done with those, come back and we'll discuss on what you gathered from them. Until then, go and get your fucking shine box. 

Sat, 06/18/2011 - 15:44 | Link to Comment nope-1004
nope-1004's picture

+1 CB.  His only reply is to junk you.  Typical bankster.

 

Sat, 06/18/2011 - 21:07 | Link to Comment Reptil
Reptil's picture

if everyone is really quiet for a moment, I can hear boots marching in the distance...

Sat, 06/18/2011 - 17:54 | Link to Comment Stoploss
Stoploss's picture

Don't hold back cheeky.

Sat, 06/18/2011 - 15:43 | Link to Comment richard in norway
richard in norway's picture

i got oil coming out of my ears, but no dollars

 

possession is nine tenths of the law

Sat, 06/18/2011 - 20:56 | Link to Comment Tuco Benedicto ...
Tuco Benedicto Pacifico Juan Maria Ramirez's picture

You are correct.  The main underpinning of the U. S. Dollar is the fact that in order to buy oil the world must buy with dollars.  That means they have to sell their home currencies, convert to dollars and then buy the oil.  That is one of the main reasons we invaded Iraq.  Hussein wanted to buy oil in non dollar currencies.

 

Tuco Benedicto Pacifico Juan Maria Ramirez

Do NOT follow this link or you will be banned from the site!