Trading Of Over The Counter Gold And Silver To Be Illegal Beginning July 15

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Sat, 06/18/2011 - 14:03 | 1380542 Hansel
Hansel's picture

Further, what products does forex.com offer related to XAU and XAG, which are indices of miners?

If this stops money from flowing into derivatives of an index and into actual gold and silver, it might be a good thing.

Sat, 06/18/2011 - 14:43 | 1380659 speconomist
speconomist's picture

You're wrong dude, XAU and XAG are spot gold and silver for forex.com and many other brokers.

Sat, 06/18/2011 - 14:54 | 1380697 Hansel
Hansel's picture

OK.  I know of the XAU index.  http://finance.yahoo.com/q?s=^XAU

Sat, 06/18/2011 - 15:18 | 1380756 AGoldhamster
AGoldhamster's picture

that is a gold and silver stock index like the HUI.

though we are talking here about something completely different - has nothing to do with stocks!

Sat, 06/18/2011 - 15:32 | 1380790 Hansel
Hansel's picture

I realize that now, but thank you.

Sun, 06/19/2011 - 07:09 | 1382152 speconomist
speconomist's picture

No problem, weeks ago, I had the opposite problem when someone was talking about the XAU index and completely different value of the spot price for gold, I was really confused.

Sat, 06/18/2011 - 16:32 | 1380931 swissinv
swissinv's picture

don't confuse XAU currency with ^XAU philadelphia index

Sat, 06/18/2011 - 14:11 | 1380561 Arrowflinger
Arrowflinger's picture

What about Dr. Copper?

Leave him out and every city goes dark from massive thefts.

Sat, 06/18/2011 - 16:52 | 1380979 pcrs
pcrs's picture

In the Netherlands they had a new law regarding the increased VAT on the arts passed januari 1st. Turned out that silver coins were also considered art and it's VAT tax also went up. Even the silver bullion dealers were only notified just before jan 1.

I call these stealth laws. Like the 1099 form law was fumbled away in the Obama health care bill and caused bullion dealers enormous amount of administrative burden (taken out btw).

Sat, 06/18/2011 - 20:27 | 1381383 Reptil
Reptil's picture

numismatic modern coins? art? they're joking!?

lol "vadertje staat is failliet".

there's still whole tribes here that know absolutely nothing about currency; the word fiat means small car.

 

Sun, 06/19/2011 - 04:16 | 1382048 Prometheus418
Prometheus418's picture

Now, now.

Be fair.  Just because of this comment, I pulled out an American silver eagle in an air-tight holder.

Let's do an artistic assessment- To be fair, the tail side is kind of weak.  Sure, it has an eagle, but it's kind of squashed and institutional looking.  But the "heads" side?  +100 for good taste. 

Unless you're one of the modern art types, I think you should take a second look.  Art Nouveau was a great movement, and worthy of being captured in a precious metal.

(Edit due to premature "save" hitting)

The old walking liberties are better- and comprise more of my personal collection.  That old-fashioned eagle on the back looks like he's about to step on a shit-headed banker.

(</edit>)

Sun, 06/19/2011 - 10:13 | 1382330 pcrs
pcrs's picture

no also investment coins like libertads, philharmonics, eagels, maple leafs.

yeah, our benevolent benefactors are grabbing left and right for our money now.

Sun, 06/19/2011 - 12:27 | 1382571 Johnson Sandwich
Johnson Sandwich's picture

hoi hoi Reptil...

 

talking about the Netherlands... can anyone recommend a few good coin shops and/or bullion dealer in the nl?

Sun, 06/19/2011 - 12:24 | 1382566 Johnson Sandwich
Johnson Sandwich's picture

talking about the Netherlands... can anyone recommend a few good coin shops and/or bullion dealers?   how about in Sweden? highly appreciated.

ps. is there a website with a list of active bullion dealers in Europe?

thanks

Sat, 06/18/2011 - 18:56 | 1381245 Weisbrot
Weisbrot's picture

 

10:1 leverage ratio and not 100:1 leverage

seems to make a whole lot of sense

 

 

Sat, 06/18/2011 - 20:23 | 1381373 trentusa
trentusa's picture

Why would Tyler post something untrue, part smthng that will give people all around the country instananeous heart attacks? Hey Tyler you're hilarious- so can i like just go to forex.com and totally sell a short put on a gold futures contract (bc thats the kind of sophisticated investor i am) and overthrow the Federal Reserve while making ourselves stinkin' rich at the same time?

      Anybody else watching Judge Neapolitano making Sarah Palin look just real damn stupid on Freedom Watch right now? Go Mavs.

Sat, 06/18/2011 - 22:10 | 1381637 TeMpTeK
TeMpTeK's picture

Doesnt matter anyway...

No act of Congress or executive order from the
 Prez carries weight in any one of the 50 states
of the union unless it has to do with interstate
 commerce... Dodd-Frank is no exception...
 For proof of this fact lets all laugh at the following..

1).The Real ID ACT 2005 (Totally Nullified by the
States) So much for Congressional authority.

2) The Gun Free School Zone Act ( Mocked by a gun
toting student. Act wrongfully applied outside Fed
 Jurisdiction in the Great state of Texas..Act overturned
 by SCOTUS and deemend "Unconsitutional".

3) All Federal Marijuana Laws totally ignored
by the State of CA and others are following suit. Medical
Marijuana  towns have sprouted up.. The Feds Powerless
 to Stop. Why?? NO JURISDICTION in any one of the
50 states of the Union..Fed drug laws DO NOT APPLY in the states.
 Thats why we have local representatives and our own laws
 in each state.

So if Congress cannot force the states into implementing REAl ID..
If they Cannot Stop California from taxing and selling illegal
Marijuana.. and if they cannot legislate gun possesion laws
in school zones within any one of the 50 sates of the union..
Please tell me what makes anyone think Congress and the President
via Frank-Dodd or any executive order can legislate sale of a legal comodity in any way...
Lets not even talk about the
Myth of GOLD Confiscation that has duped so many
well meaning individuals...
Congress writes the laws for Fed territories and
Enclaves ONLY.. ie D.C. Puerto Rico , Guam, Samoas,
US Virgin Isles.. ETC..

The President is the Commander in Chief of the MILITARY..
Not the individual States.. His executive orders are
Not Law they are mearly inhouse suggestions..

Cmon Tyler.. Dont give these Bufoons in Washington any legitimacy....They are
total fake phony imposters...

 

 

 

Sat, 06/18/2011 - 23:36 | 1381790 Libertarian777
Libertarian777's picture

No act of Congress or executive order from the
 Prez carries weight in any one of the 50 states
of the union unless it has to do with interstate
 commerce... Dodd-Frank is no exception...

 

Hate to break the bad news to you, but Wickard v Fillburn totally destroys that theory. Every positive action is basically interstate commerce due to that court case.

And now with Obamacare, every negative action (i.e things you DON'T do) are also interstate commerce related.

 

[stupid captcha...can anyone explain why the captcha uses negative numbers but then doesn't allow you to enter a negative answer? 4 x -35 = -140... but you can't enter that answer.]

 

 

Sun, 06/19/2011 - 00:51 | 1381889 HungrySeagull
HungrySeagull's picture

Congress cannot mandate Interstate Commerce across the entire nation by forcing US Citizens to buy goods or services such as the Healthcare Act. That is why so many States have take it back to the Courts because the 111th congress rammed it down our throats, we say up yours.

 

Employers and Unions by the thousands got Waivers, Others consider dropping Health care all together and some like myself think carefully about not participating at all and stay cash only with the Fam Doctor for boo boo's only.

Sun, 06/19/2011 - 11:30 | 1382446 snowball777
snowball777's picture

It's bugged...not your fault...call it an extra layer of protection against those with a lack of persistence.

 

Sun, 06/19/2011 - 17:12 | 1383030 TeMpTeK
TeMpTeK's picture

Oh So,... US v Lopez overturned? CA now under fed mandate

to stop Medical Marijuana shops? Real ID in full effect?.. PLEASE

Over 200+ years of well settled law says America is still a

free country, the people and states are soveriegn.. the 2nd

ammendment guarantees this fact by enforcement if need be..

 

Let me also beat Tyler to this future headline..

"Obamacare UNCONSTITUTIONAL"

Wanna bet your house? Noone can compel u to buy anything...

PERIOD!!!

Sun, 06/19/2011 - 03:55 | 1382043 Prometheus418
Prometheus418's picture

Stop it, stop it.

C'mon now.  I've been simply itching to hang a banker, and you know that that's a fair feeling.  

So, are what you are saying is that I have been right for decades, when I've told the laity that "America always has her sons, even when she (apparently) hates them."?

Sun, 06/19/2011 - 10:15 | 1382338 pcrs
pcrs's picture

The feds have the biggest guns and the printing press. The states ar bankrupt and in need of some printed money. They will obey. Wans't Texas recently threatened with a no fly zone by the feds, if they got rid of the 'hands down your pants' TSA?

Sun, 06/19/2011 - 11:33 | 1382452 snowball777
snowball777's picture

They say possession is 9/10ths of the law...imagine how quickly CA could close its budget gap if it impounded and sold off every bit of MIC equipment being manufactured in the state on behalf of the Feds.

Sun, 06/19/2011 - 16:06 | 1382926 disabledvet
disabledvet's picture

i dug a little deeper a noticed this "in a foot note":

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=pNjIpLHZNNs

seems you're right.  the government really is serious about their gold.

Tue, 06/21/2011 - 02:17 | 1388064 ViewfromUnderth...
ViewfromUndertheBridge's picture

XAU & XAG will NOT be illegal to trade for US residents come July 15.

http://www.cftc.gov/ucm/groups/public/@newsroom/documents/file/forexfinalrulefactsheet.pdf

This is the CFTC Final Rule Regarding Retail Foreign Exchange Transactions.

In short, to offer forex OTC trading platforms to US resident retail customers a company must register with the CFTC as a Retail Forex Exchange Dealer (RFED). This is a new category and requires strict reporting to increase transparency for retail clients. Information such as the number of participants who made a profit in the last quarter, any pending lawsuits and a warning if the company's remaining capital is approaching the new minimum limit, which is $20 million.

Leverage is limited to 50:1 (2% margin) for major currency pairs and 20:1 (5% margin) for others.

It looks to me as if XAU and XAG are included in the majors (50:1) on the basis that these are Oanda's margins for XAU and XAG and they are listed to be a compliant RFED. The National Futures Association can set refinements within these limits. If you do not know much about OTC forex trading and want to learn the basics the NFA offers a condescending 24 page booklet here:

http://www.nfa.futures.org/NFA-investor-information/publication-library/forex.pdf

To see if your OTC forex provider is a compliant RFED you can check here:

http://www.nfa.futures.org/basicnet/welcome.aspx

These companies would appear not to be compliant, because the CFTC is already suing them under the new rules:

http://www.cftc.gov/PressRoom/PressReleases/pr5974-11.html

Conclusion...Tyler, love your work but please lift your game.

Sat, 06/18/2011 - 13:50 | 1380493 Sudden Debt
Sudden Debt's picture

1$ SILVER HERE WE COME!!!!!

 

It's good to be: EUROPEAN!!

 

Sat, 06/18/2011 - 14:18 | 1380592 falak pema
falak pema's picture

PM turn coat?

 

Sat, 06/18/2011 - 16:14 | 1380885 Popo
Popo's picture

Wait... What? This is "trading" is it not? When did it become religious fanaticism? There is a market. It is influenced by thousands of forces beyond ones control.

You trade the tape you get, or you dont know how to trade. This is a major shift in policy.. It may require a major shift in investment tactics. (one must note, that it was policy in the first place that pushed metals to new highs. That policy can turn on a dime)

The nimble survive. The emotional investor gets crushed.

IMHO, all this will really end up doing is forcing metals offshore.... A disastrous outcome for the USA....

Sat, 06/18/2011 - 16:15 | 1380907 Sudden Debt
Sudden Debt's picture

HELL NO!!

Nop, this means that the paper can drop really hard from here on. And a panic will cause a dump in silver first by the lemmings who know shit about it.

After that, gold and silver will skyrocket!

 

Sun, 06/19/2011 - 12:07 | 1382529 Panafrican Funk...
Panafrican Funktron Robot's picture

Such is the silver lining (pun intended!).  This will create a historic buying opportunity.

Sun, 06/19/2011 - 12:11 | 1382543 Panafrican Funk...
Panafrican Funktron Robot's picture

Such is the silver lining (pun intended!).  This will create a historic buying opportunity.

Sat, 06/18/2011 - 14:39 | 1380640 wisfool
wisfool's picture

"... FOREX.com must discontinue metals trading for US residents... ."

 

Whats the simplest way to become a resident of another country so that I can continue trading metals?   Any suggestions? 

Sat, 06/18/2011 - 14:44 | 1380665 SilverIsKing
SilverIsKing's picture

I'm building a rocket ship in my garage and plan on leaving for the moon on July 16th.  You must leave all of your physical metals in my basement since there's not a lot of room aboard the ship and there are strict weight limitations.  As I understand it, the government on the moon is a lot more adept at managing the affairs up there than our government is down here.

Let me know if you want me to hold a seat for you.

P.S. No pets allowed on board unless she's hot.

Sat, 06/18/2011 - 14:59 | 1380703 Sudden Debt
Sudden Debt's picture

You don't need to be citizen of Europe to buy it in Europe.

You go to Europe, open a PO box and let you silver be delivered in it.

Come back every 6 months and empty it. Go to a bank and rent a safe without a account (trackable) and put your stuff in it.

Or just rent a storageroom a shurgard and put it in there.

Once they back the dollar up by silver and gold, you come pick it up.

 

Sat, 06/18/2011 - 15:07 | 1380727 swissaustrian
swissaustrian's picture

Found an offshore company?

Sat, 06/18/2011 - 19:18 | 1381286 _Alekhine_
_Alekhine_'s picture

Unfortunately, in Europe you have to pay VAT (about 20%) on Silver. 

Sun, 06/19/2011 - 02:34 | 1381982 SovietCong
SovietCong's picture

Depends on the member state. Some places have VAT, some others don't. Plus, most countries exempt derivatives, including PM futures, from VAT and even capital gains. Even in those states that apply VAT, the tax, as its name suggests, only applies to the value added. Without a doubt this is not a good thing, but it is not as bad as it sounds. Moreover, if you can make a case that the trade you've made is related to your other business operations (and it's not such a high a standard to show this), you can basically offset whatever VAT you owe against the VAT you pay for services and goods you purchased in the same time for the purposes of your business activity.

Sat, 06/18/2011 - 14:56 | 1380704 alien-IQ
alien-IQ's picture

buy a home in the Bahamas worth 500k or more an you can pretty easily become a Bahamian citizen. No capital gains tax there either...and the beaches do not suck AT ALL.

Sat, 06/18/2011 - 15:06 | 1380726 falak pema
falak pema's picture

Oh dear now Bahamas will be even more full of US trolls on the run.

Sat, 06/18/2011 - 17:32 | 1381057 Confuchius
Confuchius's picture

This is not bad news.

To catch fish, one needs bait.

Voila! Troll bait!

Sat, 06/18/2011 - 18:09 | 1381170 Confuchius
Confuchius's picture

This is not bad news.

To catch fish, one needs bait.

Voila! Troll bait!

Sat, 06/18/2011 - 19:40 | 1381313 XPolemic
XPolemic's picture

Whats the simplest way to become a resident of another country so that I can continue trading metals?   Any suggestions? 

Citizenship of Dominica is only USD75,000.


Sat, 06/18/2011 - 20:50 | 1381443 Botox4U2
Botox4U2's picture

Whats the simplest way to become a resident of another country so that I can continue trading metals?   Any suggestions? "

Are you idiots still down there? How many friggen times do people like Gerald Celente, Alex Jones and hundreds of others have to tell you to get out?  Frankly I'm tired of trying to reason with  people down there. Do you all imagine the "New World Order" won't affect you? The Jews who were stupid enough to stay in Germany after 1933 mostly perished.


Sun, 06/19/2011 - 10:38 | 1382356 Harlequin001
Harlequin001's picture

"... FOREX.com must discontinue metals trading for US residents... ."

Whats the simplest way to become a resident of another country so that I can continue trading metals?   Any suggestions? 

 

You don't. You set up a trust in a non US jurisdiction and trade through the trustee. The law does not forbid you from benefiting from the trade, only executing it yourself in the US unless I am mistaken.

It is not illegal for US residents to benefit from an offshore trust or company, only to fail to declare it if you are...

Sun, 06/19/2011 - 02:29 | 1381978 ciscokid
ciscokid's picture

It will soon be law also in Europe.

Its all a way of stopping people from

owning gold and silver.

Sun, 06/19/2011 - 09:42 | 1382281 tgatliff
tgatliff's picture

Your assumption is that Tyler's statements above are true.  I cannot find anything from Forex.com that backs up what Tyler's article says.  

I would think that if such a large change was being made that Forex would at the very least have a press release on it.   Well, if they do then I (and many others) sure cannot find it...

Sun, 06/19/2011 - 09:40 | 1382282 tgatliff
tgatliff's picture

Your assumption is that Tyler's statements above are true.  I cannot find anything from Forex.com that backs up what Tyler's article says.  

I would think that if such a large change was being made that Forex would at the very least have a press release on it.   Well, if they do then I (and many others) sure cannot find it...

Sun, 06/19/2011 - 09:40 | 1382284 tgatliff
tgatliff's picture

Your assumption is that Tyler's statements above are true.  I cannot find anything from Forex.com that backs up what Tyler's article says.  

I would think that if such a large change was being made that Forex would at the very least have a press release on it.   Well, if they do then I (and many others) sure cannot find it...

Sun, 06/19/2011 - 09:41 | 1382285 tgatliff
tgatliff's picture

Your assumption is that Tyler's statements above are true.  I cannot find anything from Forex.com that backs up what Tyler's article says.  

I would think that if such a large change was being made that Forex would at the very least have a press release on it.   Well, if they do then I (and many others) sure cannot find it...

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