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Trading Of Over The Counter Gold And Silver To Be Illegal Beginning July 15
One small step toward Executive Order 6102 part 2, and one giant leap for corruptcongressmankind.
From: FOREX.com <info@forex.com>
Date: Fri, Jun 17, 2011 at 6:11 PM
Subject: Important Account Notice Re: Metals Trading
To: xxxImportant Account Notice Re: Metals Trading
We wanted to make you aware of some upcoming changes to FOREX.com’s product offering. As a result of the Dodd-Frank Act enacted by US Congress, a new regulation prohibiting US residents from trading over the counter precious metals, including gold and silver, will go into effect on Friday, July 15, 2011.In conjunction with this new regulation, FOREX.com must discontinue metals trading for US residents on Friday, July 15, 2011 at the close of trading at 5pm ET. As a result, all open metals positions must be closed by July 15, 2011 at 5pm ET.
We encourage you to wind down your trading activity in these products over the next month in anticipation of the new rule, as any open XAU or XAG positions that remain open prior to July 15, 2011 at approximately 5:00 pm ET will be automatically liquidated.
We sincerely regret any inconvenience complying with the new U.S. regulation may cause you. Should you have any questions, please feel free to contact our customer service team.
Sincerely,
The Team at FOREX.com
So far we have only received this warning from Forex.com. We are waiting to see which other dealers inform their customers that trading gold and silver over the counter will soon be illegal.
It appears that Forex.com's interpretation of the law stems primarily from Section 742(a) of the Dodd-Frank act which "prohibits any person [which again includes
companies]from entering into, or offering to enter into, a transaction
in any commodity with a person that is not an eligible contract
participant or an eligible commercial entity, on a leveraged or margined
basis."
Some prehistory from Hedge Fund Law Blog:
The Dodd-Frank Wall Street Reform and Consumer Protection Act
(“Act”) has changed a number of laws in all of the securities acts
including the Commodity Exchange Act. Two specific changes deal with
certain transactions in commodities on the spot market. Specifically,
Section 742 of the Act deals with retail commodity transactions. In
this section, the text of the Commodity Exchange Act is amended to
include new Section 2(c)(2)(D) (dealing with retail commodity
transactions) and new Section 2(c)(2)(E) (prohibiting trading in spot
forex with retail investors unless the trader is subject to regulations
by a Federal regulatory agency, i.e. CFTC, SEC, etc.). According to a congressional rulemaking spreadsheet, these are effective 180 days from the date of enactment.
We provide an overview of the new sections and have reprinted them in full below.
New CEA Section 2(c)(2)(D) – Concerning Spot Commodities (Metals)
The central import of new CEA Section 2(c)(2)(D) is to broaden the
CFTC’s power with respect to retail commodity transactions. Essentially
any spot commodities transaction (i.e. spot metals) will be subject to
CFTC jurisdiction and rulemaking authority. There is an exemption for
commodities which are actually delivered within 28 days. While the CFTC
wanted an exemption in which commodities would need to be delivered
within 2 days, various coin collectors were able to lobby congress for a
longer delivery period (see here).
It is likely we will see the CFTC propose regulations under this new
section and we will keep you updated on any regulatory pronouncements
with respect to this new section.
New CEA Section 2(c)(2)(E) – Concerning Spot Forex
The central import of new CEA Section 2(c)(2)(E) is to regulate the
spot forex markets. While the section requires the CFTC to finalize
regulations with respect to spot forex (which were proposed earlier in
January), it also, interestingly, provides oversight of the markets to
other federal regulatory agencies such as the CFTC. This means that in
the future, different market participants may be subject to different
regulatory regimes with respect to trading in same underlying
instruments. A Wall Street Journal article
discusses the impact of this with respect to firms which engage in
other activities in addition to retail forex transactions. The CFTC’s
proposed rules establish certain compliance parameters for retail forex
transactions, requires registration of retail forex managers and requires such managers to pass a new regulatory exam called the Series 34 exam.
We do not yet know whether the other regulatory agencies will adopt
rules similar to the CFTC or if they will write rules from scratch.
Next, from Henderson & Lyman:
The prohibition of Section 742(a) does not apply, however, if such a
transaction results in actual delivery within 28 days, or creates an
enforceable obligation to deliver between a seller and a buyer that have
the ability to deliver, and accept delivery of, the commodity in
connection with their lines of business. This may be problematic as in
most spot metals trading virtually all contracts fail to meet these
requirements. As a result, although the courts’ interpretation of
Section 742(a) is unknown, Section 742(a) is likely to have a
significantly negative impact on the OTC cash precious metals industry.
Here too, it is essential that those who offer to be a counterparty to
OTC metals transactions seek professional help to discuss possible
operational and regulatory contingency plans.
The actual rule language exempts a transaction if it "results in actual delivery within 28 days or such other longer period as the Commission may determine by rule or regulation based upon the typical commercial practice in cash or spot markets for the commodity involved;" Alas, the commission has decided not to intervene and keep the exemption status window so small as to affect virtually all exchanges which transact in the gold and silver spot market.
Elimination of OTC Forex
Effective 90 days
from its inception, the Dodd-Frank Act bans most retail OTC forex
transactions. Section 742(c) of the Act states as follows:
…A person [which includes companies]
shall not offer to, or enter into with, a person that is not an
eligible contract participant, any agreement, contract, or transaction
in foreign currency except pursuant to a rule or regulation of a Federal
regulatory agency allowing the agreement, contract, or transaction
under such terms and conditions as the Federal regulatory agency shall
prescribe…
This provision will not come
into effect, however, if the CFTC or another eligible federal body
issues guidelines relating to the regulation of foreign currency within
90 days of its enactment. Registrants and the public are currently being
encouraged by the CFTC to provide insight into how the Act should be
enforced. See CFTC Rulemakings regarding OTC Derivatives located at the following website address,
under Section XX – Foreign Currency (Retail Off Exchange). It is
essential that OTC forex participants seek professional help to discuss
possible operational and regulatory contingency plans.
Elimination of OTC Metals
As
for OTC precious metals such as gold or silver, Section 742(a) of the
Act prohibits any person [which again includes companies]from entering
into, or offering to enter into, a transaction in any commodity with a
person that is not an eligible contract participant or an eligible
commercial entity, on a leveraged or margined basis. This provision
intends to expand the narrow so called “Zelener fix” in the Farm
Bill previously ratified by congress in 2008. The Farm Bill empowered
the CFTC to pursue anti-fraud actions involving rolling spot
transactions and/or other leveraged forex transactions without the need
to prove that they are futures contracts. The Dodd-Frank Act now expands
this authority to include virtually all retail cash commodity market
products that involve leverage or margin – in other words OTC precious
metals.
The prohibition of Section 742(a) does not apply,
however, if such a transaction results in actual delivery within 28
days, or creates an enforceable obligation to deliver between a seller
and a buyer that have the ability to deliver, and accept delivery of,
the commodity in connection with their lines of business. This may be
problematic as in most spot metals trading virtually all contracts fail
to meet these requirements. As a result, although the courts’
interpretation of Section 742(a) is unknown, Section 742(a) is likely to
have a significantly negative impact on the OTC cash precious metals
industry. Here too, it is essential that those who offer to be a
counterparty to OTC metals transactions seek professional help to
discuss possible operational and regulatory contingency plans.
Small Pool Exemption Eliminated
Pursuant to Section 403 of Act, the “privateadviser” exemption, namelySection 203(b)(3) of the Investment Advisers Act of 1940 (“Advisers Act”), will be eliminated within one year of the Act’s effective date (July 21, 2011). Historically, many unregistered U.S. fund managers had relied on this exemption to avoid registration where they:
(1) had fewer than 15 clients in the past 12 months;
(2) do not hold themselves out generally to the public as investment advisers; and
(3) do not act as investment advisers to a registered investment company or business development company.
At present, advisers can treat the unregistered funds that they advise, rather than the investors in those funds, as their clients for purposes of
this exemption. A common practice has thus evolved whereby certain
advisers manage up to 14 unregistered funds without having to register
under the Advisers Act. Accordingly, the removal of this
exemption represents a significant shift in the regulatory landscape, as
this practice will no longer be allowable in approximately one year.
Also
an important consideration, the Dodd-Frank Act mandates new federal
registration and regulation thresholds based on the amount of assets a
manager has under management ("AUM"). Although not yet underway, it is
possible that various states may enact legislation designed to create a
similar registration framework for managers whose AUM fall beneath the
new federal levels.
Accredited Investor Qualifications
Section
413(a) of the Act alters the financial qualifications of who can be
considered an accredited investor, and thus a qualified as eligible
participant (“QEP”). Specifically, the revised accredited investor
standard includes only the following types of individuals:
1) A natural person whose individual net worth, or joint net worth with spouse, is at least $1,000,000, excluding the value of such investor's primary residence;
2) A
natural person who had individual income in excess of $200,000 in each
of the two most recent years or joint income with spouse in excess of
$300,000 in each of those years and a reasonable expectation of reaching
the same income level in the current year; or
3) A
director, executive officer, or general partner of the issuer of the
securities being offered or sold, or a director, executive officer, or
general partner of a general partner of that issuer.
Based on
this language, it is important to note that the revised accredited
investor standard only applies to new investors and does not cover
existing investors. However, additional subscriptions from existing
investors are generally treated as requiring confirmation of continuing
investor eligibility.
On July 27th, 2010, the SEC
provided additional clarity regarding the valuation of an individual’s
primary residence when calculating net worth. In particular, the SEC has
interpreted this provision as follows:
Section
413(a) of the Dodd-Frank Act does not define the term “value,” nor does
it address the treatment of mortgage and other indebtedness secured by
the residence for purposes of the net worth calculation…Pending
implementation of the changes to the Commission’s rules required by the
Act, the related amount of indebtedness secured by the primary residence
up to its fair market value may also be excluded. Indebtedness secured
by the residence in excess of the value of the home should be considered
a liability and deducted from the investor’s net worth.
h/t Ryan
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Does anyone have the link/remember that post about Russia/Saudi Arabia/China discarding U.S. dollars on bilateral trade, and that China will discontinue conducting business in the USD end of 2011.
Meaning, Come Jan 1, 2012, we might see some very, very interesting shit happen.
The brash Mr. Falling Knife may be interested to learn about imperial overstretch, but to to do that he would have to read an abstract of Paul Kennedy's important 1989 work entitled The Rise and Fall of Great Powers.
The brash Mr. Falling Knife may be interested to learn about imperial overstretch, but to to do that he would have to read an abstract of Paul Kennedy's important 1989 work entitled The Rise and Fall of Great Powers.
The brash Mr. Falling Knife may be interested to learn about imperial overstretch, but to to do that he would have to read an abstract of Paul Kennedy's important 1989 work entitled The Rise and Fall of Great Powers.
I will call your ignorance of Aegis, and raise you a barrage of Moskit/Sunburns. You now have 200 missiles coming at you at Mach 3 (that's 2/3 of a mile per second for those that are math challenged), doing evasive maneuvers. Your radar only told you about them 20 seconds before impact, since they are flying 20 feet off the water/ground. Have fun with your Aegis trying to lock it, it can't. Oh and btw, China made a Sunburn with a 900 mile range. Notice our fleet doesn't use the Taiwan Strait anymore. I actually dread the day that all these Moskit/Sunburns get used in real life. Since the U.S. will be so embarrassed it's fleet was sunk, it will resort to nukes to save pride (and even this rah rah fool will not enjoy a 5 year winter, let alone live through it). Bank on it.
"The Chinese now have a weapon that can potentially neutralize our 21st Century carrier fleet," a USN admiral said under conditions of anonymity. "If the Chinese decide to deploy it and launch against us we'd be backed into a corner. We'd have to respond with our nuclear arsenal."
http://www.libertynewsonline.com/editorialview.php?editid=29211&imgnr=1
New delivery systems for the Sunburn and Moskit, extremely reliable products at this point, love from Russia, it even looks like a video from Red Alert 3, these are for sale as we speak:
Shipping container sunburn delivery, portable, undetectable Club K - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9xupOQSvnas
Portable Moskit system with radar included Club M - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=drlreb9-fXQ&feature=related
Press release by Club K, hot russian lady telling us not everyone can afford a frigate and these are not terrorist weapons (Western powers i'm sure object to the choice of camouflage, they can't bomb every ship or train with a shipping container) - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7nnw1DrEDbw&feature=autoplay&list=ULBFK0I...
That is where the Rolling Airframe Missile comes in for Shipboard Defense.
They will attempt to engage the target at a range greater than that of the old gatling gun "Phasers" (CIWS) as not to allow shrap and frag to shred the vessel.
Future war involving missiles is going to be very fast and run by Electronic Networking across the entire Task Force.
Some of our Ageis are now able to intercept Ballisitic Missiles. We did have at one point some missile defenses in Eastern Europe, but those were threatened by USSR Sapphire truck or rail mounted missiles that can reach them from near Poland within a few minutes time and at heights so low and fast as to make it difficult to intercept.
I will not kid you, some of the new USSR missiles are fucking fast and lethal too. Close enough will be all they really need to shred a ship.
I prefer an approach where we can do commerce with the Russians and find a way to work together with them on a Mutally beneficial way instead of fighting them. The Chinese on the other hand, should they sink one of our Carriers with 5000+ aboard... it is Soveriegn US Territory on 4 acres and it will be a naked act of war that cannot be ignored. Then again in the fluid and sometimes murky fog of war, technology and various factors.. one can only hope for victory.
I used to haul old ring mounts with the dual missile launchers from the old Ticos and those things were huge requiring great deal of electricty and strong motors to run. The VLS system aboard today's Ageis (Ticos, Burke and other Ships) are superior to those ring launchers.
Our Naval Railgun program is a great hope along with associated progress in Electric based shipboard systems that may prove to be resileint and effective in battle.
The only other issue I have left is the use of Aluminum. That will burn before Steel does for purposes of Shipboard Damage control. With the reduction in Crew manning along with various other considerations Damage Control will need to be very good, fast and accurate in battle. I point to the USS Cole as a example of what can be done.
I appreciate the optimism, I have nothing against it, but mach 3 is too fast, and it is not going in a straight line for the last few miles. Bullets and missiles are no match to target mach 3. The kinetic energy behind a mach 3 missile is hard for us to fathom, so even if it starts to break apart a mile before the ship, the shrapnel traveling at mach 1 will still do major damage, and these countermeasures don't stand a chance against a barrage of 10-30 of these missiles attacking from all angles as expressed in the videos. You'd need a portable haarp device to make a shield around the battle group. These are in development. The next war is hypersonic missiles, drones, and scalar weapons, if the radiation doesn't get ya. Humans don't stand a chance.
I will encourage you to be strong and smile. Don't let your heart fail. Never fail.
The Railgun is a favorite other than the First Light program. It is my hope that a rail gun will be miniturized to a point at which it can be used as a point defense.
There is a laser system already in testing that apparently has managed to cut through 20-200 feet of steel virtually instanteously leaving behind a 4 x 4 inch hole all the way through. Those things can cut a Iowa in half no problem. The problem is the juice and size.
I leave you tonight with the encouragement that Israel has deployed and successfully intercepted a Russian Anti Tank Missile of a modern type just prior to it's impact on one of the Merkevas with a system on board the tank to actively seek, detect, match solution and shoot to destroy inbound before it has a chance to hit the hull.
If you recall the Merkevas are and always designed for survivability. One was destroyed outright prior to the use of the new Israeli system onboard. I don't know the proper names and such. I can only go by first hand reading off the J-Post of success on the Israeli Battlefield as allowed by thier media.
War is not nice, war is messy. Stuff will be smashed, sunk and great losses all around. However when it is all over, it is my hope that we are victorious. To that end all we can do is hope that there are good people working hard to make that happen in the Free World.
A laser would work if it was perfected to track a mach 3 target, i'll grant you that. The laser would also allow someone to play offense, since the haarp shield would disable/vaporize all ingoing and outgoing ordnance, rendering something safe but ineffective for offense. I think the laser is at least a decade away to track mach 3. I definitely agree with you that we have the means to shoot down anything traveling at a tomahawk speed, mach 1 or so. Not sure if we can take care of a barrage of them at once, but those are finer details. Those anti tank missiles you speak of are cheap, probably around 5-10k apiece, if you get a good deal. These Sunburns are around 2-5m apiece, with electronics for flying 20 ft. off the ground and doing evasive moves the last few miles, and are self targeting. The Klub K setup in the video is for sale for 10m, so 10m for 4 self contained unstoppable missiles. Much different kettle of fish. You don't own a few thousand of them, you own a few hundred, if you're lucky, and they are meant to turn the tide at the appropriate time.
I disagree with you that we will be victorious. On a budget of about 1m you could have multiple sleeper people all over the U.S. with rpg's just waiting for their country to be attacked, so they can rpg the nearest nuclear power plant. The U.S. would be uninhabitable very quickly. Sadly we devote -zero- dollars to protecting our nuclear plants. No anti aircraft, and the people that constitute security are not going to be ready for anything since we are too blind to think anyone would dare attack us on our own soil, so they will be unprepared. But we do wanna check your balls/hoohoo at the airport for weed. I am willing to bet some eagles that this very topic relates to Italy, Switzerland, and Germany shutting down all their nuclear plants. Nobody wins with radiation, and the next war will have lots of it, whether DU or tactical nukes or sabotaged nuclear plants or whatever new variant we have dreamed up.
Get it straight.
Russia was, and is again, a world power. Don't belive it? Look out your window, and see who really won the cold war.
We're the other one. I'm rooting for us, but don't discount the Russian Bear.
The day the U.S. takes on a country with a robust S-300 or S-400 missile system (we haven't yet) is going to be a really, really bad day for military stocks.
"Were better off than any other Country on Earth"
You are fucking joking?
Name a better country to live in, America is Paradise...at least for some of us.
It's about to be a red paradise. You hold on to that little pipe dream you got son,
cause that's all you got.
Australia enjoys a 20% higher per capita GDP than the USA and more freedom.
Yeah, well Somalia has NO taxes and basically no real centralized government.
Can you say paradise?
Are you currently serving time?
Try and buy a handgun there. Then come try the same as a citizen in Texas.
I agree the US is fucked. Texas might figure a way to slide out of it. (I hope)
We'll be just fine (optimist here). Just make sure you know your local sheriff on a first name basis. Donate to his office, this is one way to get in well with them.
Learn how to garden and preserve food w/ root cellaring, dehydrating, jarring, just the basics of life that people have forgotten because of the excess we've been allowed for so long in this country.
Get some worthwhile (WRITTEN! Remember those things, books?) knowledge such as the encyclopedia for country living: http://www.amazon.com/Encyclopedia-Country-Living-Fashioned-Recipe/dp/09...
Texas is probably the most well-armed state in the Union. I personally own several guns and have friends that own several of their own as well.
Who knows what's going to happen really, predictions at this point are a waste of time. One thing's for sure though, this is the first of many last ditch efforts until final control is instituted as it pretty much is. Efforts should be directed to preparation and nothing else IMHO.
Get enough gold/silver to cover your ass, but don't forget if (probably more like when at this point) the "shit hits the fan" like a lot of people belive it will, toilet paper and fresh asparagus, organic seeds, water purification devices, gasoline etc might be worth as much as your silver, if not exponentially more in dire times.
Just a few thoughts.
+666 for common sense.
Hope you're right, planning for you to be wrong (about us being "just fine.")
Sweden, Norway, Finland, Switzerland.. that's 4.
I still love the US though...I still think she has a lot going for her and I'm ready to fight for her (not in Libya though ;-)
I thought he really was joking, at first, as in super dry sarcasm. He's just a jackass. Where do these people come from and how do they find this site????
Another brainwashed fiat pimp. Once the rest of the world gangs up on the USD and his bank account becomes worthless, he might wake up.
He's already woken up. And chose the side which in his mind is winning (and is most patriotic because of the amount of flags you see). Please don't make yourself any illusions, there'll be many, many pigmen.
It's all about context...
spoken like a true centurian. where are they now by the way. thats right, they defeated themselves.
Over time your words will have the same intrinsic value as today's Federal Reserve Note.
Tuco Benedicto Pacifico Juan Maria Ramirez
Yes, we may be f..... but we are "armed" and f.....!
Tuco Benedicto Pacifico Juan Maria Ramirez
"armed"? this is laughable. how many drones do you own? THEY have weapons that will vaporize you.
Precisely gb. People are thinking like police action while what will come down will be everything they have, microwave, drones, Acoustic weapons....
ORI
I'm going to say this once, and never again.
Electro-magnetic pulse weapons, bitchez.
Hope you didn't miss it.
Tesla would be so proud.
@ORI
"I dunno what it is, but everytime I sit still I get these brutal headaches; I smell burnt oranges, don't you?"
GoinF, is that a specific reference? Because i missed it! :(
ORI
RE: drones+focused standing waves
"Say... now I'm starting to feel kinda warm!"
I don't mean to question your faith in the power of your masters gb, but name me one revolution, peaceful or violent, where the revolutionaries succeeded because they possessed superior arms.
this looks like it is aimed at shutting down futures trading (or rather, at cementing it firmly in the control of the cartel), not real physical where you take delivery. so why not oblige the fine gentlement in washington and take delivery of every last ounce?
yes, if they are looking for ways to try to block up the windows before they close the door, i can see it backfiring with people pulling every last frn out of the bank and buying _something_ physical with it.
Buy Silver Nitrate and with some basic electrical toys you can turn it into silver.
And with all this international trading stuff like Ebay and crap, it's still going to be so easy to buy silver. VIVA LAS UPS AND DHL BITCHEZ!
And the good part is that the price will hit rockbottom first!
I'm like having a erection right now :)
WAW!!
ENDGAME BITCHEZ!!!
hey, you could also make an explosive out of silver nitrate. Although it would be a primary explosive so too sensitive in bulk.
and its has medical uses too!
Now that's diversification!
so no longer lawyers, but doctors, guns and money?
Silver Nitrate will stop bleeding, but you are gonna need some kind of very stiff whiskey and 4 stout people to hold you down. I suspect super glue does the exact same as well.
You suspect correctly-
Cyanoacryllic glue (superglue) was developed for the medical industry as a substitute for stitches. It works very well, and does not even sting when applied. Have used it many times in the field during construction projects.
Did EBay/Paypal lower their cut when they set up the new gold/silver front? They really could take over the PM world, shit, the entire commodities world if their cut wasnt so damn high. I really can imagine barrels of crude on ebay.
No kidding-
eBay is where I check my PM prices.
This is called prelude to hyperinflation if true.
Banker manipulation can no longer fraudulantly hold the price down, they have to go to plan B.
Don't be surprised if ownership is outlawed and confiscation is enacted.
The USA is becoming a more frightening place by the day. I wouldn't go there if I was paid.
Think NAzi Germany in the 1930s - that's where the US is today. Seig heil!
yep feuer frei, du hast mich mutter frecken
Wait a min...doesn't this mean 'paper' gold is fckd? Isn't that what we want??
Best way to buy/sell gold and silver is at coin shows. Most regional shows settle in cash, no records are kept of the buyer/seller, and there is plenty of competition so the prices are competitive. Everything is tax free and unrecorded. I have seen people buy tremendous amounts with no records! They also sell straight bullion at these shows.
No matter what they limit, coin shows will always be going on each weekend in virtually every city.
Or.....
Just cultivate a good relationship with an LCS or 2
You can have anonymity
The coin shows are one of the few white man's underground markets.
The immigrants and undocumented guests have extensive UGMs going in Kalifornia.
I love the coin shows. And the guys running and participating in them are old timers, instinctively on our side.
Also, gun shows.
That is a great idea, never tried it. Thanx!
I think it's bogus
Not bogus. I got the same FOREX e-mail and I was also informed by Saxobank that all US based accounts were being closed. Both were due to Dodd-Frank.
The Saxo notification came more than a month ago but no one there had been able to give me a clear and concise reason for the account terminations. They didn't stop at closing down metals trading. The are closing accounts whereas FOREX is putting a stop to metals trading only...for now.
Dodd-Frank = Democrats like Hussein-Mugabe.
Normal and rational behavior.
does that mean spot price of Gold/Silver will tank soon??
who will rely on the price of a futures contract when the average person isn't even allowed to buy one? it sounds like the mythical spot/physical price divergence might be upon us shortly.
Posted elsewhere:
"Meant to apply to trading on margin on products without physical delivery.
This is the key - basically from a quick skim it appears that it's going to be illegal to trade paper where there's no possibility of actually taking delivery within 28 days. So all of those online forex dealers that allow gold trading on margin won't be able to take on US customers.
A lot of noise about this last August... but now it seems to have crept up on everyone again.
http://forums.silverstackers.com/message...ml#p147204"
Not sure if the following is correct, but larger players (and banksters) might be excluded from these rules:
The above was posted elsewhere as well.
In other words, only rich Americans can buy precious metals OTC. Can't really see how making income distinctions is Constitutional. Then again, that document was shred a while ago.
Of course the big boys will be exempt. The want the small guy out and undercontrol. The individual demand is what drove up the prices and this is another attempt to drive them back down. Just another veiled Goldman bailout.
awesome, in 5 years time when inflation hits triple digits, everyone will be earning $200,000 as a minimum wage, so we'll all be excluded :-)
My humble take on the effects of implemention of this legislation will be similar to but not as significant as the effects caused by the recent multiple margin requirement increases in the silver market. It will wring out some speculation in the markets further lowering prices and putting pressure on physical supplies to some extent but not dramatically. What scares me is what happens in three, four and five moves later in the multi-dimensional chess match that the demon elite play on an ongoing basis. Time will tell, but this stinks as does about everything coming out of that terrorist state in WDC.
Tuco Benedicto Pacifico Juan Maria Ramirez
I just contacted their customer service and that is real.
Well, well, well. First I get a letter from my bank, Wachovia-now Wellsfargo, telling me that if I kept anything in my safty deposit box that is "illegal" it may be confiscated. Then I read that a Mr. Gary Gensler (ex Goldman Sachs partner) is to run the Commodity Futures Trading Commission and his first task is to "implement legislation passed last year that requires first-ever regulation of some of the darkest, riskiest corners, of these financial markets." The article also blames liberal Democrats for holding up his nomination for five months. Miami Herald, Sat., June 18, 2011, page C-1, "Meet the enemy of the oil speculators". Then I read this about FOREX. Ahh I get it. The Squid is now in charge of the banks, The Treasury, the enforcement, The FED, etc. I guess they do not want any of us to have options. Now we know why they are bailing out the banks. They are soon to be the enforcers. Next the new $100 bill with all others recalled within a certain time frame-and you had best be able to explain from whence they came.
The CFPA(?), consumer fraud protection agency (?), is the other part of this monstrous Dodd-Frank bill. Elizabeth Warren, close advisor to Obama, is in charge. She's been trying to direct state AGs how to proceed for months, even though she has no legal authority until at least July, 2011 -- and she lied to congress about her activites.
It is run out of the Fed, and funded by the Fed, so no oversight or defunding possible by congress with unlimited budget. It has authority over all the rest of us little people and seeks to track and control our day to day activities and transactions, including ATMs.
It will also set up rules and regs that will prohibit private lending by small businesses and family (as predatory), eg., Orthodontists will not be allowed to let patients make payments for kid's braces. It looks like it will also put small banks and thrifts out of business.
but how would they know unless they checked?
and if they are checking then its not really safe is it? I would request a refund for services NOT rendered.
III%
much respect tyler but we need other confirmation...if true coin and mint dealers will be emptied next week surely....
Fair enough, but isn't that what we all (holders of physical) want anyway? Or am I missing something here? Sounds like a win-win to me.
it is, this is very exciting. We may need those shovels sooner than we thought.
Midnight gardners unite;)
Expecting something to happen and wanting it to happen are two different things. I would give up the vast increase in wealth I expect to happen with gold appreciation in dollars if we could save some aspect of American capitalism (the textbook kind, not the politicians are owned by GS capitalism we have now).
Seeing it happen as I expect it to happen is still depressing, since I'm an American who is grateful and wistful at what our founding fathers started. We Americans did this to ourselves by voting for it.
Ha HaHHaHaHa... now you have one more reason to depart the 'land of the free' The next step is a door to door search to confiscate your dinnerware.
This makes me hard.
My COMEX endgame prediction appears to be right on the money.
They have elected to legislate the closure of the COMEX while pretending it was fine. Just another dumb move by politicians.
Best load up on that physical. All that trading has to go somewhere.
Yep, now just wait until the perpetual QE (bond marturing and buying within forced parameters) begins in earnest. Regardless of the "flation and fiat du jour" all things physical will be proudly accepted on the black markets. This is how we ultimately get the mass exodus of people falling off the radar and the birth of a new market. Sort of like India today, I seem to remember reading somewhere that the "off the books" economy was several fold greater than their legitamate one. Bullish ALL things physical.
I've been listening to your COMEX prediction, good call. Buying physical, another good call, heading to the coin shop after lunch.
But doesn't the ruling refer to leveraged forward/spot vehicles versus exchange-traded futures. Seems to me a big win for CME/Globex.
Feedback?
Further examination reveals that, yes. COMEX and all other PM price discovery mechanisms will "benefit" from FOREX refugees.
Interesting thought: does this apply to Kitco pool accounts?
There will be quite a bit of confusion over this for a while. The timing of this incredibly arbitrary rule change is quite interesting. I wonder if it will buy the COMEX some time? Perhaps they are trying to usher specs on both sides into the futures markets, specs who they know don't want to take delivery, so they can use their money to buy up physical off the open market, and perpetuate the ponzi a bit longer.
Or maybe this is a nothingburger, just a sideshow distraction from what is really going on in the PM markets.
We'll see, I guess.
Unbelievable ... Dodd and Frank the two top democrats who were instrumental in bringing the housing market to it's knees to begin with create more and more havoc. When will it ever end?
Now we get to see that 100 to 1 all try to fit into the 1. I expect the physical metal supplies to dry up completely by the end of July.
Is this QE3?
this reeks of desperation.
No doubt. Being the anti-fiat, PMs have the potential to accelerate the endgame unfavorably for TPTB.
GW Bush looks like heaven compared to this sh*t.
Bush just another level in Hell. The Republic, circa 200'ish years ago goes better with your simile..
Edit: btw, I notice you're just trolling the thread with your neo-con bullshit. Here's some advice: when party rhetoric, echoed by the majority is spewing from your mouth, concurrent with the long-term decline of this once great country, you should know that you've been completely fooled. If you have a shred of intelligence you'll know that all democracies devolve to the majority being wrong. You, sir, are one of the problems, one of the very reasons for the downfall of this country. Shame on you and fuck you for your small-minded, idiotic, crowd-following bullshit.
"Freedom is just another word for - nothin left to lose" ~J Joplin
"Those who make a peaceful revolution impossible,
make violent revolution inevitable." ~ JFK
Well, shit.
Roger Miller wrote the song. Janis sang it.
Thanks,
I didn't know who wrote it, but she sang the hell out of it.
And the instrumentals at the end are rockin R&B.
I was trying to illustrate that closing the avenues of escape, the people might well react.
The boyz can't stand anyone else making a buck, so they just use the pols they bought.
Roger Miller my ass. Look it up.
Looks like everyone got hit with a margin call ;-)
Kris Kristofferson & Fred Foster wrote it
Fantasy. A reputable dealer will want to see your ID. What you show him is your business, but you may need to show him *something*. In my state, when you buy, in order to pay no sales tax you also need to provide your ID. Something to keep in mind.
Don't know what *you* consider "reputable," the guy I buy physical silver from has been in business in the same location for thirty years, and has a sign on the counter that indicates that sales of precious metals are CASH ONLY, no check or credit cards accepted. He will also trade the silver/gold ratio without the intervening step, and has never asked me for id or my name. Also does not issue reciepts for PMs.
Now that is a solid, reputable guy. He sells guns, too.
What's his fee for trading the ratio?
Post his address I think I want to meet him.
Apologies for the top-post, but I figured I'd take advantage of the unintended dupe.
There is one other supplier in the area, with limited hours and a higher premium, but he had decent-sized bags of peace dollars a few weeks ago. (Pounds, not oz.)
G-mail me if you are going to make travel plans, and need contact info.
At the risk of drying up my personal silver supply:
403 S Barstow St, Eau Claire, WI 54701
He's a good guy, and deserves all the profit he can get.
If you happen to stop in there, and are in the area, it might be worth your while to take a little tour of the outlaying areas to shop for farmland as well. Lots for sale, and fairly isolated.
If this address is real, you just did a great disservice to your man.
Damn ... seriously post his address.
Free Markets! Operating Freely! To the Benefit of ALL!
AAA Rated squeeze of the little guy Averted!
A Free Police State(s) that do make sure that no matter what! that Big Business Rulez ALL!
The Days of "America A(AAA Rated) Corporate Realm" are upon us! Let us rejoice in the splendor of our shackels!
Constitution used for shit paper!? Check!!
Big Business Operating without regard (or Fear, more accurately) of the Law!? Check!!
Individual Investors in the Land of the Free Squeezed Out!? Check!!
Get ready to donate your precious metals folks! and guns! Dont worry it is all in the name of "Corporate America's Safety" from you.
and I would like to send a special Thanks out to all of you that sat on your asses for the last fucking 30 - 40 years while Corporate America took over! I hope they accidently shoot you in the face while they are stealing your Gold! LOL!!!
Baby Boomer Hippy Shit combined with Baby Boomer Conservative (wanna be) Values ='s A Perfect Corporate World Ruling the Individual! one side didnt believe in violence and the other just out smarted the idiot sheep with catch phrases that tested well (or meme's, for those that want to yet again make it hard for the common man to understand! it has done so well thus far!).
Your extremest views are ridiculous. Why don't you move out of the Country if you hate America so much? None of what you say will ever happen. This is the land of the free, if your a true American, opportunities abound!
Exactly. I will stick to my beloved dollar till the end. Everything i bought my whole life was bought in Dollars. Its a little late to switch over now. Besides, The last time i checked, My liquor store and ronjeremy.com subscription only accept dollars
If you're spending your last dollars on liquor and porn instead of investing in silver, you deserve what corporate Amerika is dishing out.
Meanwhile, the rest of us with brain cells left will invest in precious metals to avoid being plundered by the NWO.
Truer words, from your average ignorant brain-washed dumb-ass American have never been spoken.
What country are you from?
I dare not think where this knife will fall to affirm the freedom its owner declares...so solemnly. Like it was gospel truth. You belong to which tribe apart from being a "true" american? Is it a family who thinks that "cos you say it it becomes the truth"?
I still hold the blue passport and have left the country because I hate it so much. Consider me an early adopter....there will be many more of you like us. :)
I still hold the blue passport and have left the country because I hate it so much. Consider me an early adopter....there will be many more of you like us. :)
AMERIKA.... FUCK YEAH!
You voted for this in 2008 you CS.
Heh heh fun read JW
JW, I'm so bummed, within days of my telling you how cool Bariloche is, it gets fucking dumped on with 6 inches of ash :/
vid of Bariloche as ash fell: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wKZFFHdGUmg&NR=1
The next day:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gWG5mAvCYVQ
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wKZFFHdGUmg&NR=1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4_cXUVZJxP8
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HfcuwWiW4yA
Sad face :/
http://www.spanishcay.com/images/b-Marina%204.jpg
Wahoo! http://www.spanishcay.com/gallery/i2-b.jpg
even the color of the apartments is fun! http://www.spanishcay.com/images/MarinaCondos.jpg
http://www.spanishcay.com/gallery/500/DSCN2531.JPG white / pink sand.. you can fly fish for permit / tarpon or bone if you are ghey..
protected harbour! http://www.spanishcay.com/gallery/500/DSCN2520.JPG
King Air fly in and out! http://www.spanishcay.com/airstrip.htm
http://www.spanishcay.com/images/b-Marina%207.jpg if you wanted to.. you could chum at the dock and catch grouper all day night long! never even leave the dock.. lobster? you can swim.. no boat needed to catch more lobster than you can carry.
So..
Food? Check!
Fuel? Check!
Power? Check!
Pirates? Check! (we are the pirates)
what else does a person need? Booze and Women! you have seen the place what do you think?
Police State and Austerity here? no problem! when the sheepeople get their shit together I am happy to help in any way possible to try and restore the Constitution of the United States of America! I will dig ditches! whatever helps get us as a Nation back on track!
I am completely down to hang out in the tropics with ya, I have a buddy already in Roatan, Honduras nearby. Not a huge fan of places that have malaria but a small island like that won't have that problem. I will have to brush up on my rum (Mas Ron) habit, I was practicing with red wine for Patagonia. But seriously I wanted to be further away from the implosion shitstorm, I thought the other side of the planet might cut it, hence Patagonia. I'll be happy to visit tho. I'll probably keep my old passport like you on the .01% chance people get their shit together, but I don't see our country using E-verify for all employers countrywide anytime soon.
Strange comments today. No way silver goes much lower and someone still thinks Amerika is supreme. Would have fooled me.
There is going to be one heck of a Black Market (Underground Economy) for gold and silver if this goes thru. Expect higher prices...much much higher.
The bucket shop firms like forex.com probably not liking this too much.
will this give a easy exit for the jp morgue....if this is banning the sales of silver that does not exist this must be good... i just wish i had more ounces.......
Realistically, this should cause prices to sky rocket instantly as money that thought paper hedging was safe piles into physical. But I think we are most likely in for a paper raid that will result in a massive physical supply shortage.
Please help me to understand this issue. Please correct me if I am wrong below.
1) It doesn't impact any retail gold and silver transactions at all.
2) People with less than 1 million assets can not trade paper gold and silver OTC anymore, unless they take/deliver physicals in less than 4 weeks.
3) Can US traders with less than 1 million trade foreign gold/silver paper ? Are they forbiding US traders to trade in Hong Kong gold exchange ?
Pretty clear The Bernank wants every investor to buy only one thing---treasuries.
The Million dollar min. requirement....
30% of all silver is owned by funds. Only a very small part is owned by private investors like us.
They just don't want anybody else of us comon people to own and get rich of it.
won't be long until you all have 28 days to hand over all your gold and silver!
Can someone please explain what this means to me as a 100% physical holder of gold and silver. I do not own a shred of paper anything, or would even know how to buy a future contract if my life depended on it.
i dunno, bro ciga-wormz, my boiler-plate allegy flared up, causing complete incomprehension. some of the peeps here claim to grok this, tmose^ claiming to have predicted this to be the veritable demise of the crimex.
i'm going to the other (Dodd-Frank) string and see how much worse this gets.
tyler must be hysterical...
Tiny market now stifled. Simple...
What a great day to launch the SILVER VIRAL PROJECT!
Dump your paper, convince the sheeple, take silver viral!
http://silverdoctors.blogspot.com/2011/06/silver-viral-project-guidebook...
How does this legally affect metal short positions, especially the manipulative ones held by JP Morgan and the rest of the evil empire?
Whatever happens, for better or worse, these statist sons-bitches sure to keep it interesting. I welcome the zombie apocalypse they are causing.
I was thinking the same thing, are they free to short all they want?
What do YOU think?
i think my mate max keiser is still scratching his head on this one....
http://jessescrossroadscafe.blogspot.com/2011/06/cftc-to-curtail-off-exc...
does that include GLD, SLV and non-allocated accounts?
gasp!
Well lets all jump on the government sponsored silver stampede.
Nope, looks folks YOUR currency is failing. My silver will not only reap huge rewards, but you wont have the dough to enforce such nonsense.
Molon Labe
Just spoke to FX.com's support desk. This news appears to be disappointing and shocking to them as well (for obvious loss of business/liquidity reasons etc). Right now, it's accross the board prohibition to any US resident. I think that will change once they realize how noisy it is even on Saturday!
C A P I T A L C O N T R O L S
That's all you need to know.
My local coin guy tells me the same type of story every time I go in: person of means calls, inquires as to the amount of 100 oz silver bars and 1 ounce gold coins he has in stock. When he tells them, their immediate reply is "I will take it all, sending down my assistant with a cashiers check, who will take delivery for me."
These are 1 0 0 K purchases, blink-of-an-eye transactions. Doesn't matter what the prices are, they are pulling their cash out and hedging their U S $ risks and the upper levels of the herd are indeed moving.
This is an attempt to keep them out of the markets, and to herd them into the slaughter houses.
Won't be long now my friends. The physical is your friend, all else is not. Place your bets.
Did you miss the bit about the upper levels of the herd presently being immune to this legislation?
Doesn't matter if you're a millionaire. Forex.com is closing the gold and silver window for all U.S. residents. Other online exchanges the same.
My take on the reason is that someone figured out that if a significant number of gold/silver margin buyers took delivery, the exchanges would be unable to deliver, and would lose everything trying to deliver. Like the gold runs on the central banks in 1930-1933. The U.S. dollar and the Euro are in about the same bad place, with the U.S. slightly worse due to both the FevGov and the states dead bankrupt, where the European Central Bank is just getting revved up into bankruptcy. Don't know how the EuroGov is faring, but suspect is is less than $108 trillion FRNs in the hole (weighted to Euro income/demgraphics). Our states are not as bankrupt as Euro states, but overall, it's bad all over. Anglo-white countries plus the Eurozone are in about a 1787-1788 France situation. If expensive food escalates to bare shelves (likely in 2012, for more people in more countries), having gold/silver useful only to the extent that people are interested in it.
Q_Not, from my perspective they are forcing the lower tier of the upper crust into a position where they can not insulate their wealth from rapid FOREX flux. In other words, if you don't have $10 M to play you don't play. Power laws show that wealth distribution is inversely exponential: Each order of magnitude higher have about 1/10 the number of players of the lower tier. There are a lot of people covered by this legislation. Those people who have millions, but not tens of million, are not going to sit around on their asses moaning about their dwindling wealth as the US$ goes into the tank. Some of them are buying physical precious metals. It is a hedge against a rapid fall in the value of the US$.
Its a burning theater and they are barring the doors...
I agree 100%
The exits are indeed being removed, and I sense that only massive wealth will soon be considered insider status...
I've had the decked stacked against me since I started my business in 96', regarding accumulation of wealth, and although I have made what would be considered a wealthy annual net since 2000, I've been excessively taxed at the same rate of those that gross millions per year, not to mention the cost of living in NYC that has eaten deeply into my seed corn.
I could have been more aggressive in my investment model, but I am faulted as a fair and honest person that doesn't believe in participating in Ponzi schemes...
Moreover, as I was cognizant of The Trend - Witnessing the national > global looting up-close and personal - I positioned my store of wealth in PMs accordingly, which in fact has saved it to the present.
The music is becoming more, and more insane, and it can only last for a short while more...
Got a chair?
Full disclosure: I am part of the "lower tier of the upper crust" that this Act does not apply to, at the very minimum requirements...
I still want no part of the paper Ponzi!
The media and the government educational system has done a fantastic job of presenting false and limited information into the minds of the public.
What's going to happen to the price of PM's when these paper traders all need to sell their positions pretty much at the same time? Or am I missing something?
It's called a wonderful buying opportunity for the physical, underlying asset..
Sounds like it could get pretty volatile. Getting popcorn ready...
Weak hands for sure will be shaken out, abandoning their physical holdings, but The Trend is firmly in place, and the Banksters and Politeers won't be able to stop themselves from hyper-inflating.
Good luck 'MeriKa, you're gonna need it!
Look at the frogs getting boiled and all they feel is confusion. Why does the CFTC need more control over retail commodity markets....hmmmm? Oh well, that doesn't sound so bad???? Neither will the subsequent changes either on stand alone basis, but in the aggregate??? So we can assume they will look for LESS or MORE control in the future? The furniture is getting piled against the exit in the theater before the real fire starts. Get up, walk toward the concessions stand and then right out the front door. To the guy wrapping himself in Old Glory - I am 'Merikan and the whole "Love it or Leave it" meme is tired man.
"When fascism comes to America it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying a cross." Upton Sinclair
Tuco
SOLUTION: CANADA
The only asset an American can buy off shore and not register is property or a house. Slip across to Canada and buy a nice home on the St. Lawrence and put a good safe in the basement. Then fill it with silver and gold....You can also open up a bank account in Canadian dollars that will be a bit better for you in case TSHTF....Canada, more then free health care...
There will be few places to hide when TSHTF and Canada ain't gonna be one of them unless you can live in the wilderness on your own. Canada is turning into a police state just like the U. S. and the rest of the world.
Tuco