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Treasury Says Anything But A Debt Ceiling Hike Would Lead To Default, As M.A.D. Escalates A Notch

Tyler Durden's picture


After in the past week, the blogosphere had been hobbled by one after another mindless oped claiming that the US can easily avoid default by just paying the interest on its obligations, and thus does not have to worry about the debt ceiling, we decided to put some sense to this debate when we pointed out that the "US Debt-to-Deficit Difference Hits Fresh Record, As Treasury Continues To Issue 50% More Debt Than Needed To Fund Deficit" meaning that i) it is not a debt ceiling, it is a debt target (© Lizzie363), and ii) the hundreds of billions of monthly obligations that are funded through debt, are "legal" obligations of the US government that have to be paid in full every month or a default will occur regardless. Neal Wolin, Deputy Secretary of the Treasury, has just released a statement on the Treasury's blog saying pretty much just that. Which, however is certainly not a good thing, as it merely confirms just how totally screwed this country is, and that absent a hike in the ceiling to $15.5 trillion (which we believe is where the debt ceiling will be through March of 2012 when it will be raised to $17 trillion), the dollar will be backed by several trillion in insolvent Federal Reserve Notes, er, assets (that should quickly end all debate about EUR-USD parity). It also confirms that Bernanke has no choice but to continue monetizing debt, through QE and to do that, he needs to make it palatable to the general public, which in turn will mean either a material economic deterioration, or, as the two are apparently identical in the Chairbeast's mind, the Russell 2000.

Just issued by the Department of Turbo Tax Failure:

Treasury: Proposals to “Prioritize” Payments on U.S. Debt Not Workable; Would Not Prevent Default

Neal Wolin

his January 6, 2011 letter urging that Congress act to protect
America’s creditworthiness by increasing the statutory debt limit
Secretary Geithner made clear that any default on legal debt obligations
of the U.S. would be unthinkable.  In response, Members of Congress of
both parties have indicated agreement that the United States must honor
its obligations.   However, Treasury disagrees with
suggestions by some that Congress could somehow evade this
responsibility by passing legislation to “prioritize” payments on the
national debt above other legal obligations of the United States. 

While well-intentioned, this idea is unworkable.  It
would not actually prevent default, since it would seek to protect only
principal and interest payments, and not other legal obligations of the
U.S., from non-payment.  Adopting a policy that payments
to investors should take precedence over other U.S. legal obligations
would merely be default by another name, since the world would recognize
it as a failure by the U.S. to stand behind its commitments.  It would
therefore bring about the same catastrophic economic consequences
Secretary Geithner has warned against, including sharp rises in mortgage
interest rates and other borrowing costs for families; reductions in
the value of homes, 401(k)s and other retirement savings; and negative
effects on the dollar and the safe haven status of Treasury bonds and
other Treasury securities.   Such a policy
would also be unacceptable to American servicemen and women, retirees,
and all other Americans, who would rightly reject the notion that their payment has been deemed a lower priority by their government.  For these reasons,  the
Department of Treasury has always emphasized – regardless of which
party has held the White House or either house of Congress – that the
only way to prevent default and protect America’s creditworthiness is to
enact a timely increase in the debt limit.

Neal Wolin is Deputy Secretary of the Treasury.



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Fri, 01/21/2011 - 20:03 | 894846 ejmoosa
ejmoosa's picture

"Such a policy would also be unacceptable to American servicemen and women, retirees, and all other Americans, who would rightly reject the notion that their payment has been deemed a lower priority by their government."


Morally it is so much more acceptable to push this burden off to the generations of children not yet born, right Neal?

The real risk is how all those folks who were deemed a lower priority would vote in the future. 

And I am ready to find that out sooner rather than later.


Fri, 01/21/2011 - 20:11 | 894864 Michael
Michael's picture

Here is your children's future.

I Uploaded another copy of a video I made this morning.

I scrubbed my new video of key words to make it harder for the thought police to slow the downloading of it.

SNL Style Comedy Sketch

Fri, 01/21/2011 - 20:32 | 894905 Hernando
Hernando's picture

Good video.  Jesse Ventura is right on the money "I rather face the danger than lose my freedom"  Steve Cohen is a spinmeister who is well protected by the MSM.


Starve the beast, no debt ceiling increase!

Sat, 01/22/2011 - 11:58 | 895063 Michael
Michael's picture

I made some tweaks to my new video and entered it in Infowars V for Victory contest.

SNL Style V Comedy Sketch INFOWARS.COM

The Alex Jones Show – 1/21/11 – V for Victory Resistance Campaign Launched

I would love for someone to post this video on Daily Paul.

I was banned from there for some inappropriate rhetoric.

Sat, 01/22/2011 - 14:27 | 895906 bonddude
bonddude's picture

Sonoma valley Bank fraud about to break in NYTimes Sonoma affiliate.

Sat, 01/22/2011 - 14:29 | 895909 bonddude
bonddude's picture

No more youtube just FB only sorry. Had to pull in horns

Sat, 01/22/2011 - 14:55 | 895936 bonddude
bonddude's picture

Borrowers who have defrauded dumb banks over and over, rolling their shit paper

from one dumbass bank to another and finally the music stops with the financial

meltdown. Bye bye credit, real estate values everywhere. This finally being

acknowledged at the federal level and pursued. BILLIONS.

THe music stopped on the greedy dumbasses at SBNK.OB and all of their

unaware small town shareholders. heard it here first.

Sun, 01/23/2011 - 11:51 | 897034 bonddude
bonddude's picture

HAHAHA Told ya Check out bank fraud where local elites gets their

panties in a twist y'all.

Sat, 01/22/2011 - 13:53 | 895844 Michael
Michael's picture

I want to thank all ZH'ers four help and patiences while I was uploading the final cut.

No doubt the key words are attracting the thought police. They cause the video to freeze and or slow it down to a crawl.

Yesterday I experimented with no provocative and iniquitous key words and found the videos loaded faster without them.

I think I got them on the run.

Thanks again.

Sun, 01/23/2011 - 00:00 | 896692 2discern
2discern's picture

The rainbow bear is back

Sun, 01/23/2011 - 12:35 | 897102 Blankman
Blankman's picture

"the children are probably very happy there."  - quote of your video

Fri, 01/21/2011 - 20:40 | 894922 Birddog
Birddog's picture

good video...well put together

Fri, 01/21/2011 - 20:51 | 894937 flacon
flacon's picture

Chilling video.

Fri, 01/21/2011 - 21:35 | 895035 hamurobby
hamurobby's picture

yes, dam good vid MJ.

Sat, 01/22/2011 - 02:39 | 895335 philgramm
philgramm's picture

no doubt

Sat, 01/22/2011 - 11:03 | 895638 The Third Man
The Third Man's picture

No video. Pulled by user. Have another link?

Sat, 01/22/2011 - 11:47 | 895688 ZEITGEIST
ZEITGEIST's picture

they pulled it again...had it and then it went down..

Sat, 01/22/2011 - 12:15 | 895717 creviceCaress
creviceCaress's picture




whats the dealio michaeljokerfella?


sat.morn 1114EST tried watching yer video, mute was on, turned off mute raised vol on vid soon as you raise vol it reverts to way around it....never happnd before(conthpirathy!) it says removed by user?

Sun, 01/23/2011 - 03:36 | 895848 Michael
Michael's picture

I want to thank all ZH'ers for your help and patience while I was uploading the final cut.

No doubt the key words are attracting the thought police. They cause the video to freeze and or slow it down to a crawl.

Yesterday I experimented with no provocative and iniquitous key words and found the videos loaded faster without them.

I think I got them on the run.

Thanks again.

Fri, 01/21/2011 - 22:46 | 895142 Triggernometry
Triggernometry's picture

Its hard not to get an overwhelming sense our world has been ruined by the same generation that so frequently demanded trust yet gave none back.

If there are lower age limits on running for public office, its only fair there be upper age limits as well. We force pilots to retire early, why should we not do so for those whose positions hold even more lives in their hands?

Sat, 01/22/2011 - 02:27 | 895331 jeff montanye
jeff montanye's picture

that would be ronald reagan's, alan greenspan's, george w. bush's, robert rubin's, bill clinton's, ben bernanke's, barack obama's and timothy geithner's generation?

Sat, 01/22/2011 - 03:08 | 895359 M4570D0N
M4570D0N's picture

You realize Reagan was born almost exactly 100 years ago in 1911, right? He was 50yrs old when Obama was born.

Sat, 01/22/2011 - 21:29 | 896518 Cpl Hicks
Cpl Hicks's picture

I hope you don't have evidence placing Ron in Hawaii (or Kenya) anytime before the you?

Sun, 01/23/2011 - 00:32 | 896728 Michael
Michael's picture

We should establish a home for deranged presidents.

All current living presidents should be sequestered there.

Sun, 01/23/2011 - 02:06 | 896794 serotonindumptruck
serotonindumptruck's picture

Already have that particular convalescent facility.

The Fletcher Memorial Home (for incurables).

Sat, 01/22/2011 - 03:35 | 895381 Edmund Dantes
Edmund Dantes's picture

 Just checking in. I am a new memeber

Sat, 01/22/2011 - 03:53 | 895397 Rodent Freikorps
Rodent Freikorps's picture

That means you have to fight.

You fucking pussy.

Sat, 01/22/2011 - 05:52 | 895462 Hephasteus
Hephasteus's picture

Speak. And call forth your troll.

Sat, 01/22/2011 - 06:06 | 895465 Rodent Freikorps
Rodent Freikorps's picture

Damn near everything I put out there are fighting words to someone.

I try, but I think the world is mostly populated by betas.

Old warriors never die. They just transition into kicking in the teeth of idiots on blogs.

Sat, 01/22/2011 - 06:23 | 895483 Hephasteus
Hephasteus's picture

Yep I know boards messed up. Was supposed to link to the person above you but it's being zonkers.

Sat, 01/22/2011 - 08:28 | 895543 snowball777
snowball777's picture

And Jingo was his name-o...

Sat, 01/22/2011 - 12:19 | 895725 Rodent Freikorps
Rodent Freikorps's picture

Wanna make something of it?

Sat, 01/22/2011 - 12:24 | 895732 Dapper Dan
Dapper Dan's picture

Are to talking to me?

Sat, 01/22/2011 - 13:00 | 895771 Rodent Freikorps
Rodent Freikorps's picture

Do you know how to fight?

Sat, 01/22/2011 - 12:35 | 895740 snowball777
snowball777's picture

Onward Christian soldier! (get off my lawn)...

Sat, 01/22/2011 - 13:02 | 895779 Rodent Freikorps
Rodent Freikorps's picture

Wow. Taking a swipe at pussy Christians. Kinda like kicking puppies.

Why don't they take a swing at Islam?

Fucking pussies, when all is said and done.

Sun, 01/23/2011 - 07:26 | 896914 nmewn
nmewn's picture

"Why don't they take a swing at Islam?"


"The report said Mohammed and two others arrived at the compound on the outskirts of Karachi, where Pearl was being held. According to the report, some U.S. and Pakistani officials think the accomplices were Mohammed's nephews, including Ali Abdul Aziz Ali, who is also being held at Guantanamo Bay.

Mohammed slashed Pearl's throat, killing him, but one of his accomplices failed to operate the video camera, which they had brought to capture the murder for propaganda purposes. Mohammed restaged the killing, this time decapitating Pearl, according to the report. He then dismembered Pearl's body, and it was buried on the compound. Guards washed the bloody floor and then prayed, foreheads to the ground, on the same surface where their prisoner had just been killed, the report said.

The report said that 27 men, including guards and drivers, played a part in the kidnapping and murder, and that 14 remain free in Pakistan. Mohammed has not been charged with Pearl's murder, in part because he first confessed while in CIA custody, where he was waterboarded 183 times. Prosecutors fear that his treatment at the hands of the agency could compromise any case, the report said.

Mohammed told the FBI that he wanted to exploit the murder for propaganda. But the report also quoted a former chief military prosecutor at Guantanamo Bay as saying that "one of the high value detainees told interrogators that Osama bin Laden was angry that [Mohammed] had slaughtered Pearl so publicly and brutally, arguing that the murder brought unnecessary attention on the network."

KSM, his nephews & Omar should be taken out back and shot.

Sun, 01/23/2011 - 07:31 | 896916 Rodent Freikorps
Rodent Freikorps's picture

An eye for an eye.

Cut off their heads with a knife...slowly.

Sun, 01/23/2011 - 08:23 | 896934 JW n FL
JW n FL's picture

pearls nephew's should get to do it... if able, if not... i would stand in and use a spoon, so get comfortable... its gonna take a while.

Sun, 01/23/2011 - 08:27 | 896935 nmewn
nmewn's picture

Yeah...I thought bout that...but on reflection, I would say it's one thing for you and I to do it in this case (we would be judged by a jury of our peers)...not a government.

Here's another one to get the leftists nose outta joint (hard to pick fights lately...LOL)'s the most recent list of gifts to the president, his wife, children, staff etc. from foreign countries.

We already know who the top gift giver is ;-)

Sun, 01/23/2011 - 08:41 | 896942 nmewn
nmewn's picture

Speaking of lists & irresponsibility;

"The expenditures fall into broad categories of community outreach grants, charitable contributions, and payments for services rendered. In this list, EIA has deliberately omitted spending such as media buys, or payments to pollsters or consultants that have no obvious ideological component. The grants range from $2.125 million to a California ballot initiative campaign, down to smaller grants to organizations such as People for the American Way, Media Matters and Netroots Nation."

"You will literally be fired, whoever you are. You must spend this money."

Maura Policelli, U.S. Department of Education's senior advisor for external affairs,
describing what will happen to school officials who don't spend their
stimulus money by the end of next year. (July 27 Thompson

Lovely lady...LOL.

Sun, 01/23/2011 - 08:51 | 896945 Rodent Freikorps
Rodent Freikorps's picture
The evil implanted in man by nature spreads so imperceptibly, when the habit of wrong-doing is unchecked, that he himself can set no limit to his shamelessness.
Roman author, orator, & politician (106 BC - 43 BC)
Sun, 01/23/2011 - 09:07 | 896953 nmewn
nmewn's picture

The words of Cicero are timeless.

I see Olberwaffen was fired Friday...looks like Huffpu has a new employee ;-)

Sun, 01/23/2011 - 09:10 | 896955 Rodent Freikorps
Rodent Freikorps's picture

I would love to take a look at Huffpoo's books.

I surely would.

Sun, 01/23/2011 - 09:15 | 896957 nmewn
nmewn's picture

Might be a stimulating October surprise in someones future ;-)


Sun, 01/23/2011 - 00:34 | 896731 Michael
Michael's picture

Thems the rules of Fight Club.

Sun, 01/23/2011 - 07:39 | 896919 Alcoholic Nativ...
Alcoholic Native American's picture

Don't you mean the Count of Monte Cristo?

Sat, 01/22/2011 - 03:39 | 895383 Seer
Seer's picture

TPTB are wanting to save their asses TODAY and are not all that interested in TOMORROW.  Consider that it's always been more of a priority to tend to the Praetorian Guard than to the future's children (they can be manipulated to become members of the Praetorian Guard, just has been done for eons).

Given this, and that the FACT of TPTB is to hang on to their power, yes, maintaining payments to the Praetorian Guard is essential...

And, given that the entire system operates based on growth and that growth is collapsing -permanently, well, yes, push out to the future makes perfect sense when you figure it's all going to go tits-up anyway.

Sat, 01/22/2011 - 03:56 | 895400 Rodent Freikorps
Rodent Freikorps's picture

Are you trying to be a recruiting ad for the Praetorian Guard?

Cuz, if not, you are a nutter.

Sat, 01/22/2011 - 08:30 | 895546 snowball777
snowball777's picture

It's not even funny that you don't understand that you're the tool of TPTB, Ratboy.

Sat, 01/22/2011 - 12:21 | 895728 Rodent Freikorps
Rodent Freikorps's picture

The govt. will always feed itself first. That is a powerful recruiting tool.

Reality bats last.

Sun, 01/23/2011 - 11:03 | 897008 snowball777
snowball777's picture

Avoiding jailtime and a path to citizenship are popular too.

Sat, 01/22/2011 - 05:44 | 895455 slackrabbit
slackrabbit's picture

I thought about this and wonder if the government is truely scared of bringing the troups home to  no benefits, no jobs and hungry families.

Battle hardened soldiers with no money or prospects, combined with shrinking police forces a depression  and a unpopular government is never a good idea.

Conversely, at military spending of 800 billion a year - how long can they keep that up for? And how will the troops fell, after watching their friends die, to know the war is lost because the government ran out of money?

Either way an evil mix.

Sat, 01/22/2011 - 11:08 | 895642 B9K9
B9K9's picture

It's important to remember that the patterns we see occurring have endlessly repeated themselves over the past millenia. That's because the nature of individual people's desires, hopes, motivations, etc, their relationships between each other (ie predator v prey), and their attempts towards social organizations (government) don't change. Rather, only the specific circumstances of any respective period appear to be altered, yet the same needs for food, shelter, safety, etc still exist.

So, what's the point? The point is to look at how these types of events play out. If you review some of my prior postings, I predicted we'll have a 'strong man' in charge within a few years. Democracies and their cousins, republics, simply do not, and cannot, stand the test of time. It dosesn't need to be repeated that the corruption, fraud & outright illegalilty are a function of the destruction of the rule of law supposedly furthered in the interests of constituents (hence, the MAD threats).

As the system continues to weaken and spiral out of control, the strong man will appear on the horizon. Does it have to be a coup? I don't think so; rather, I think it will follow obligatory Constitutional processes. In other words, the VP or SecState will resign, a new "outsider" (the future strong man) will be nominated in their place, then a series of resignations will follow that place him at the Presidency.

This is exactly what happened during Watergate. The only difference being that during Watergate, we intentionally got a weakling called Ford (House Speaker), while this time around it will most likely be Petraeus. And guess what else he brings to the table? Yeah, the circumstances of dispossed troops may be ameliorated.

Sat, 01/22/2011 - 11:16 | 895650 cossack55
cossack55's picture

Always a distinct (and historic) possibility. 

Sat, 01/22/2011 - 11:53 | 895694 Gully Foyle
Gully Foyle's picture


"while this time around it will most likely be Petraeus. And guess what else he brings to the table? Yeah, the circumstances of dispossed troops may be ameliorated."

I was pondering the bad economy, high unemployment, and grim outlook for the future, just this morning. I realized what a perfect setup it is for a new WW.

Then I started running through the usual suspects and realized that China has a few hundred million males it needs to get rid of.

I can't quite picture the stage though. Not the Koreas, been done. There was a new movie about the invasion of Australia by some Asian looking coalition, guess it came from a book series. Kind of like a duller Red Dawn.

Makes one think, invasion flick, bad weather, bubble ready to burst.

Australia would make a nice set for the next act in the coming war play.

Sat, 01/22/2011 - 15:18 | 895972 cossack55
cossack55's picture

We are already awfully close to India. Nothing happenin' there since the limeys left (except Pakistan, oops. I didn't say that)

Sat, 01/22/2011 - 19:52 | 896428 robertocarlos
robertocarlos's picture

Canada is just sitting there waiting to be taken.

Sat, 01/22/2011 - 21:36 | 896523 Cpl Hicks
Cpl Hicks's picture

I been thinking the same thing for years.

1) they are pussies

2) there aren't very many of them

3) with global warming the empty spaces might be useful (wheat, corn, etc.)

4) they got what a billion billion bbls of oil in those tar sand and shale deposits...and the natural gas!

Let's do it.

Sat, 01/22/2011 - 23:58 | 896689 hewhohesit8s
hewhohesit8s's picture

ha, remember how well it went last time you tried in 1812.... we wopped your ass

Sun, 01/23/2011 - 00:02 | 896694 Cheesy Bastard
Cheesy Bastard's picture

we wopped your ass

As an Italian American I resemble that remark and demand you retract it, or I will break your knees and get grease on your new shirt.

Sun, 01/23/2011 - 02:39 | 896815 Rodent Freikorps
Rodent Freikorps's picture

The Italians have everyone blaming the Jews.

Those magnificent bastards.

Sun, 01/23/2011 - 14:14 | 897235 Cpl Hicks
Cpl Hicks's picture

In 1812 you weren't Canada, you were a British possession- stiff-upper-lip, pip pip, cheerio, Mad King George III and all that. Certainly to be feared then, not now.

Sat, 01/22/2011 - 18:44 | 896336 Terminus C
Terminus C's picture

I have been thinking this same thing since 2008...

I think it will be Siberia and Central Asia.

Siberia is close enough to Alaska to be able to incite fears of Americans, lots of resources to conquer, and just the right spots to have everyone get involved.

Sun, 01/23/2011 - 09:31 | 896969 JW n FL
JW n FL's picture

look... I dont do cold for more than a couple feww weeks at a time when I am in the mood... but if anyone steps foot in america, i am showing up... cold or not... and i am not leaving until nothings left moving, that doesnt belong there.

Sun, 01/23/2011 - 02:32 | 896807 scaleindependent
scaleindependent's picture

Great post.

What will the masses behind this putsch be like? Hint: Who will most get hurt by the coming catastrophe? (middle class).  Who are the ones most screaming at politicians in public meetings? Imo, it will be the Christian right, the Palinesque  "proletariat".

Do not rule out a religious strong man that wants to bring the US back to its Christian roots with its Christian ethos and laws.

Sat, 01/22/2011 - 11:14 | 895649 aerojet
aerojet's picture

No, not really, they just want to keep their corporate ware going on as long as possible.  The government will press bad policy as long as it can until there is a breaking point at which the policy cannot continue.

Sat, 01/22/2011 - 20:24 | 896462 naughtius maximus
naughtius maximus's picture

Read up on the bonus army if you haven't already.

Sun, 01/23/2011 - 12:02 | 897023 B9K9
B9K9's picture

Yes, I considered that when I posted, but I think there are a few distinct differences.

First of all, it occurred during the period prior to the creation of the US empire & MIC. That is, pre-WWII, before the Allies learned the lessons of the economic benefits of fascism so well from the deposed Nazis. So the total potential pool of 'aggrieved' dependents (not just soldiers, but entire families supported by a war economy) of a former empire were significantly lower than today.

Second, as I & others have mentioned before, during the GDI in the 30s, the world had yet to tap into the massive ME oil fields. So there was plentiful fuel in which to fire up the economic expansion that first got us through WWII and then into the glorious post-war period. In that sense, there was still hope that the underlying system could hold, therefore the Bonus marchers posed a threat to the established order.

I think this time around many people are going to finally wake up and figure out that this is really "it". A person of the stature of Caesar, Charlemagne, G Washington, Napoleon, Hitler, Stalin, Mao etc will rise to the occasion to take command of the stage with the ready acquiescence of the masses.

Who else is going to tell everyone that the entire social welfare state was a great big Ponzi designed to benefit those who initiated the system (both the politicians who were elected on the promises, and contractors who benefited from the tax raids), rather than those who expected an actual safety net? That there are no pensions, public or private? That there aren't any more welfare payments, food stamps, etc?

It's impossible to resolve these kinds of issues via traditional representational methods - there are just too many competing claims & constituencies. This is why history has continually & repeatedly turned to the same solution - a 'strong man' - during these types of transitional periods. Denninger is absolutely correct when he points out the solution(s), yet apparently fails to understand how they will be implemented.

Once you understand the big picture, then everything else falls into place. You know what to expect & what you need to do in order to be prepared. Of course, that doesn't provide any type of guarantee, but at least you will have a chance of meeting reality head-on like a man instead of being surprised like a clueless sheep.

Sun, 01/23/2011 - 18:00 | 897651 Crassus
Crassus's picture

Not to worry. Full schedule: Yemen, South Sudan, a make up game with Iran, full mission creep into Pakistan, the rest of the Levant and the Magreb looks promising too. And $800 billion a year? Audit 33 Liberty Street.

Sat, 01/22/2011 - 08:35 | 895547 66Sexy
66Sexy's picture

Morality is not even a consideration. Its DOW 15,000+, QE 4, and Debt ceiling to infinity. Think it's a shorting opportunity now? Perhaps... but more likely headwinds then deep losses for shorts...


Of all the theories being thrown out there so far, this one has it right, and they called it march 2009.

Melt Up, by

Sun, 01/23/2011 - 04:55 | 896859 the rookie cynic
the rookie cynic's picture

Also, the Davos dickweeds want $100 trillion in new debt. If they get it, plan on being a slave inflation, debt, and the TBTFs for the rest of your lives.


Sun, 01/23/2011 - 04:56 | 896860 the rookie cynic
the rookie cynic's picture

Double post, sorry. I'm up way past my bedtime.


Sat, 01/22/2011 - 14:19 | 895889 bonddude
bonddude's picture

sonoma Valley bank fraud story about to break in NYTimes Sonoma affiliate

Youtube cartoons gone only the FB site now exists

Sat, 01/22/2011 - 14:22 | 895894 bonddude
bonddude's picture

Sonoma Valley Bank fraud story about to break any minute in NYTimes Sonoma


No more Youtube cartoons only this and Fb site remain.

Fri, 01/21/2011 - 20:06 | 894851 Millennial
Millennial's picture

I really worry about my life. Being kicked out of the Army for my leg. I have a handful of interviews in the coming weeks, but I still worry. 

Fri, 01/21/2011 - 21:50 | 895061 hamurobby
hamurobby's picture

Maybe thats the way it should be, a door shut is the sound of another opening. You sound like you have much more potential, and glad to see you still here. Pick the biggest corp with the biggest need for your services and hope (and work) for the best.

Fri, 01/21/2011 - 22:00 | 895078 Millennial
Millennial's picture

My lack of experience keeps biting me in the ass. I've been home for two weeks and have had two interviews so far. I need a job badly before high inflation hits. 

Fri, 01/21/2011 - 23:11 | 895171 redbud
redbud's picture

Maybe this link will help. Best of luck!

Sat, 01/22/2011 - 13:51 | 895849 RichardP
RichardP's picture

Interesting development.  Thanks for the heads up.

Sun, 01/23/2011 - 00:01 | 896693 W.M. Worry
W.M. Worry's picture

Guess what, it's never been easy for most of us. I went to college for 6 years while working as a long distance mover in the Summers and a plumber during the school year. My wife and I spent 20 years working our asses off moving household goods all over the country while I also developed a talent for designing and building custom homes. That was fun while it lasted. Now that the building thing has crapped out I'm back driving a truck, on the road for 4 weeks at a time. Doing what I gotta do even though I'm worth a couple Mil and could probably just stay home an bitch about life. My point? Forget about that computer shit and just go out and do something useful. Work smart, live smart, you'll have a good life.

Sat, 01/22/2011 - 00:37 | 895300 Founders Keeper
Founders Keeper's picture

[I really worry about my life. Being kicked out of the Army for my leg. I have a handful of interviews in the coming weeks, but I still worry.]---Millennial

Millennial, thank you for your service.

I have found it helpful to ask God to put people in my life who had the same problems I'm experiencing. People who overcame their difficulties. I ask them how they did it.

Talking with people who truly understand--and are working toward making positive changes--relieves the loneliness, lightens the gloom, and mends the wounds.

And don't forget to laugh. 

Welcome to ZH.

Best Wishes, and God Bless.


Sat, 01/22/2011 - 04:23 | 895408 Millennial
Millennial's picture

I wouldn't call it service, I completed Basic, but failed to get into AIT. I achieved an MBA at 22 (bachelors at 21). Did computer odd jobs while trying to attain work til October 2010. Shipped for the Army. I'm home again now and severely disappointed. I need work. 

Sat, 01/22/2011 - 10:53 | 895627 creviceCaress
creviceCaress's picture

good for you, "failing" to get into AIT may prove to be the best thing for you.  i wish you the best Millenial, my unemp came two days before my 1st child came, six weeks ago.  and i cant qual for the dole.  so i have an unemployed wife, a beautiful girl and a check from the va that covers my gas for the month.  whilst the sitch is approaching "CODE BROWN", i see it as a challenge.  we get a lotta help from friends and community, which is incredible.  ive got to the point where i use power of intention(not the YCYOR/SECRET b.s.)..dunno if it works but 3 job leads popped up in the last 2 days.

this could also be an opp for transiting into a lifestyle more in accordance with the "changes"  we'll be immersed in soon. 

Sat, 01/22/2011 - 13:54 | 895853 seek
seek's picture

Did you post about this on reddit, perchance?

Sat, 01/22/2011 - 14:27 | 895905 Millennial
Millennial's picture

the hell is reddit?

Sat, 01/22/2011 - 15:40 | 896007 UGrev
UGrev's picture

have you got a hold of any staffing companies? I used to call them headhunters years ago.. but they can help you find a job and they get paid by the employer if you get hired. 

Sat, 01/22/2011 - 16:36 | 896121 Millennial
Millennial's picture

staffers very rarely respond to me. I have applied to various jobs through them. 



Sat, 01/22/2011 - 23:43 | 896672 snowball777
snowball777's picture

Remember: they're using headhunters to find people for a reason.

Fri, 01/21/2011 - 20:06 | 894853 Seasmoke
Seasmoke's picture

who has the balls to vote to make that ceiling made of CONCRETE

Fri, 01/21/2011 - 23:57 | 895246 JW n FL
JW n FL's picture

what happens... when the lights go out... and there is a bump in the night... and the lights are not coming back on for a good long while? not hours... months, years?


default does what? who owes who? who trusts who?


think thru a non raising of the debt ceiling, while chatting online with the lights on...

Sat, 01/22/2011 - 00:22 | 895284 serotonindumptruck
serotonindumptruck's picture

The lights are on. Somebody's home. Unfortunately they're six months behind on their mortgage.

Sat, 01/22/2011 - 02:51 | 895345 JW n FL
JW n FL's picture

pretend and extend.. I would say print, but thats just fucked up.

Sat, 01/22/2011 - 03:14 | 895364 cossack55
cossack55's picture

Turn em off. If you are not ready yet, you never will be. 

Sat, 01/22/2011 - 11:31 | 895665 JW n FL
JW n FL's picture
by cossack55
on Sat, 01/22/2011 - 02:14


Turn em off. If you are not ready yet, you never will be. 


Sat, 01/22/2011 - 15:21 | 895974 cossack55
cossack55's picture

Too loud for me and sorry, missed the reference. I didn't junk you tho.  I generally only junk trolls and the seriously stupid.

Sat, 01/22/2011 - 23:01 | 896610 JW n FL
JW n FL's picture

A sin the size of saturn (planet) come back around? it does have, or is supposed to have a different meaning but I like them.. from my younger more angry days of course... but seems apropo' for the banking / fed / and / or add other here...


sorry for the loudness.. it is an aquired taste to be sure. 


as for me and junks... I have Jesus freak stalkers... who can not devate fact(s)... not your fault but you are more than welcome to junk me... I am fine with it, so no worries! 

Sat, 01/22/2011 - 05:52 | 895464 grey7beard
grey7beard's picture

>> what happens... when the lights go out... and there is a bump in the night... and the lights are not coming back on for a good long while? not hours... months, years?


I'd say it all depends on how well one has prepared for the situation.  Although I don't think it will happen, I've prepared for it the best I can.  Even in my situation I think it would be hellish.  But I also think my situation would be a walk in the park as compared to folks living in more urban areas.  I would get special pleasure in knowing the mcwealthy bitches in their SUV, gabbing on their cell phones while going to lunch at the club would be grounded. Hey, none of us are perfect.

Sat, 01/22/2011 - 08:35 | 895549 snowball777
snowball777's picture

When the lights go out 
Everybody has fun 
When the lights go out 
Everybody runs to a safe place 
When the lights go out 
Everybody's afraid 
When the lights go out 
Everybody starts to pray 
Starts to pray 
Monsters & Madmen 
All come alive 
When the dead start walking 
There's no place to hide 
Hey--Let's turn the night into day 
Let's start a fire in an alley way 
Let's all go crazy by & by 
And let's all pray to the cat's eye 
No one can be trusted, when the lights go out 
People act real crazy, people start to shout 
People huddle together, try and hide their fear 
People party down by they ain't goin' nowhere 
They ain't goin' nowhere 
Gonna run outside 
What's there to see 
Just one big shadow there to comfort me 
There to comfort me . . . there to comfort me 
Just common folks like you and me 
Turn into mobs that get so crazy 
Prowl the streets like cats 
Out for the hunt 
Breaking all the windows just because it's fun 
Just because it's fun

Sat, 01/22/2011 - 11:13 | 895639 Calmyourself
Calmyourself's picture

Right, lets debt pile on the kiddies.. I deserve mine now!  Let me guess: Government worker??  If I had to guess your title; Second assistant director of culturally mandated equity revitalizations..  No worries JW & snowball when the lights go off I will be there for you, with Gen 3's, I see you..

Hey sacrelidge, site is positioning comments strangely..

Sat, 01/22/2011 - 11:47 | 895686 snowball777
snowball777's picture

Independent software contractor. And you?

Sat, 01/22/2011 - 16:29 | 896111 UGrev
UGrev's picture

I'm about to become independent as well. Seems getting paid for 40 hours and really, only working 40 hours is not what my employer envisioned. What they really meant was, we'll pay you for 40 hours but you'll work 60. Fucking corporate pricks. Seems there are shit load of 6 month .NET contracts out there.. but wtf is with the "on site" crap. I work virtually.. eff that cubicle shit. They aren't "Innotrode" or "Innatech" and I don't own a swingline stapler.. 

Sat, 01/22/2011 - 23:42 | 896668 snowball777
snowball777's picture

We're going to have to ask you to move your office into the elevator shaft...

Thankfully, most of my work is from home (two-room commute), but I do get the occasional gig using hush-hush prototype hardware which requires coding in a room with no windows; I just make sure it's worth my time.


Sun, 01/23/2011 - 09:35 | 896971 JW n FL
JW n FL's picture

Jerald is that you? get back to work... i need my new box built... and dont walk off with any of my $16,000 ssd's either...


see the best way to get around you expensive fucks (no offense) is too go silicon... less power and faster.. custom boards bitches!

Sat, 01/22/2011 - 17:49 | 896244 Calmyourself
Calmyourself's picture

Lets say sales and multifamily rentals / RE is my main line. I also serve on elected and appointed positions within my city and county.  Constantly battling those who would spend money we do not have..

Sat, 01/22/2011 - 23:44 | 896675 snowball777
snowball777's picture

So.....government worker.

Sun, 01/23/2011 - 00:27 | 896726 Calmyourself
Calmyourself's picture

Ha, unpaid,  yet elected..

Fri, 01/21/2011 - 20:07 | 894854 Waterfallsparkles
Waterfallsparkles's picture

The Bankers have the Us in a no win situation.


Fri, 01/21/2011 - 21:54 | 895071 Sam Clemons
Sam Clemons's picture

They would like us to believe a default is a bad thing for us.  Its actually a bad thing for the banks, not most Americans.  Pain would be sharp, but would end.

Sat, 01/22/2011 - 03:51 | 895395 Seer
Seer's picture

Who controls things, and how do they do it?  It's via the banking system.  And, it's pretty clear who the "they" are: the same ones who are killing people all over the globe.

As far as it not being bad for "most Americans," well... I think that's a pretty light dismissal.  There are, what, 44 million on food stamps?  How many are posed on the edge of being in that group?

No matter what is done it's going to result in massive pain.  And no one should think that he/she is going to avoid it.

Default = death of the growth system (it's an early termination of what would end in collapse anyway).  And the "growth system" has been responsible for over-producing food (massive mining of soils using depleting fossil fuels).  Don't be fooled into thinking that this is just some sort of paper-shuffling exercise, that we can just rearrange the balance sheets and carry on...

Sat, 01/22/2011 - 14:00 | 895861 RichardP
RichardP's picture

But watch them do it.  Like they've done in the past.  Why do you think this time is different just because you are now aware of what is going on.  This has been going on for years.  I'm guessing it will continue on for many more.

Sat, 01/22/2011 - 09:30 | 895574 snowball777
snowball777's picture

So when you can't borrow money to feed the war-monkey...what's to stop China?

You really believe that capping the debt ceiling wouldn't mean an immediate and steep increase in tax rates?

Sat, 01/22/2011 - 11:19 | 895651 Calmyourself
Calmyourself's picture

If the lights go out here.. Who exactly buys China's shit?  Oh, and how do they keep humming at 8-10 gdp, thats right they don't and if they don't the peasants get pissed and Hu Jintoa is in line for the bullet in the back of the head, bill sent to his family after organ harvesting of course.. In other words if we stop China has domestic problems , we can export more than inflation.

 Immediate tax increases to do what keep worthless layers of Government in power to enforce worthless regulations.  The children will not be educated without Dept. of Education, roads cannot be maintained without Dept. of Transportation, the wrong lightbulbs may be used without the Dept. of Energy and on and on..  The war monkey can come home and start dismantling the above..

Sat, 01/22/2011 - 11:52 | 895692 snowball777
snowball777's picture

Europe and Brazil, for starters. The peasants wouldn't fare any better than tankman or the other dissidents.

We can export? Laughable...look at the trade balance since Nixon.

Old people vote and they like their entitlements...good luck actually winning a political campaign with the famine and misery platform.

And you will pay the soldiers to 'dismantle' with what exactly?

Sat, 01/22/2011 - 18:02 | 896263 Calmyourself
Calmyourself's picture

1. Brazil and Europe have their own problems and lets not breeze past the original theme. If we go down as in SHTF, lights out, you think the ships just weigh anchor in Long Beach and head on down Brazil way?  Ha, the world is a little more interconnected than that, we go they all go, we are the first domino in an unbroken chain.

2. The trade imbalance ( I agree it is pitiful) is not a measure of how poorly Americans can or will produce if given the chance.  It is a measure of extremely poor monetary, fiscal and environmental policy imposed by an overbearing central government.

3. We could come to an accomodation with the oldsters, but yes your right it will be a sea change for them.  That does not excuse inaction it must be done.

4. My comment regarding soldiers meant unequivocally their votes would help us tear down overbearing government, votes not arms.

Sat, 01/22/2011 - 23:55 | 896686 snowball777
snowball777's picture

1. The ships will never leave for the docks in the LBC in the first place. Why do you think China is propping up the EU? Selflessness?!  Next debtor in possession step right up!

2. I agree Americans can do amazing things, and while the gov hasn't helped with "free-trade" and expatriation of multinational cash hoards, it was corporations that moved jobs to Mexico and China.

3. If the cuts apply equally to the other big ticket items like defense and corn subsidies, I agree.

4. Aren't those soldiers employed by the overbearing government? Why would they petition to be put on the street?


Sun, 01/23/2011 - 00:32 | 896727 Calmyourself
Calmyourself's picture

1. See #1 in my post interconnected domino's, if China can prop up Europe to maintai nthe cycle they would do the same for us.  Europe has bigger problems than us.. 

2. Corporations incentivized through, high tax rates, stifling red tape, and yes avarice always plays its part.

3 +1

4.  We will not be able to afford them see #3

Sat, 01/22/2011 - 11:59 | 895703 Gully Foyle
Gully Foyle's picture


"If the lights go out here.. Who exactly buys China's shit?"

I read an article a few months ago. It said China isn't worried about the crap it sells to the US because their big monye has been in building things like dams in other countries, and exporting machinery.

Sat, 01/22/2011 - 12:04 | 895705 snowball777
snowball777's picture’s-fires-warning-shot-us-debt

Also little things like...97% of current rare earth mineral production.


Sat, 01/22/2011 - 18:19 | 896285 Calmyourself
Calmyourself's picture

 If our "lights" go out all the development and money spent in E. Africa and elsewhere will not save China there are only so many empty malls to build.


Rare earths, Molycorp is gearing up just get the envirowacks off their back..

Sat, 01/22/2011 - 23:57 | 896687 snowball777
snowball777's picture

77% of their exports already go somewhere other than the US, up from 69% just a few years ago. 

You know that China can simply buy out Molycorp like they did with the rest of that industry, right?

Sun, 01/23/2011 - 00:35 | 896732 Calmyourself
Calmyourself's picture

Familiar with the term nationalization?  Perhaps China should buy all our AG land in the Midwest, while we starve they could ship it overseas..  I think that rodentcorps guy and 50-60K of his friends would strongly disagree that strategic anything leaves the country in an emergency.  Nice straw man though.. 

Sun, 01/23/2011 - 04:58 | 896862 Rodent Freikorps
Rodent Freikorps's picture

Very strongly.


Sun, 01/23/2011 - 07:29 | 896915 nmewn
nmewn's picture

+ 60,001

Sun, 01/23/2011 - 08:37 | 896939 Rodent Freikorps
Rodent Freikorps's picture

By my math, Texas alone could put over 200,000 snipers in the field without much problem.

Sun, 01/23/2011 - 11:23 | 897020 snowball777
snowball777's picture

Hmmm....sharecropper or bullet-catcher...not the choices I had in mind for my son.

Those 60k troops need bullets, food, and jet-fuel right? Who'll be paying for those again?

Sun, 01/23/2011 - 15:09 | 897351 Calmyourself
Calmyourself's picture

Snowball you are stepping perhaps outside an area of expertise here.. You may wish to learn about 4GW before thinking those 60,001 snipers could not stop whatever needs to be stopped in this country vis a vis foreign resource stripping, (never happen by the way).  The opposing forces need the same support after all and the population is in most cases on "our" side.  Rodent corps above could probably school you on the aspects of guerrilla war you may be unaware of.  Software questions, I come to you, 4GW careful not to trip on your own shoelaces..  A question to ask yourself is who pays for the jet fuel, computers and GPS guided bombs and delivery systems for the Taliban?

Fri, 01/21/2011 - 20:08 | 894855 NOTW777
NOTW777's picture

"regardless of which party has held the White House or either house of Congress"

why would they add that? a threat? everyone does it, so its ok?

Fri, 01/21/2011 - 21:00 | 894959 Pants McPants
Pants McPants's picture

Excellent observation.  I didn't catch that the first time through.

Fri, 01/21/2011 - 22:04 | 895085 patience...
patience...'s picture

Probably to reduce the threat of the tea party.

Sat, 01/22/2011 - 03:57 | 895396 Seer
Seer's picture

What threat?  That movement was founded by some of the richest fuckers ever to walk this planet (Koch*).  What a bunch of tools!


Sat, 01/22/2011 - 11:21 | 895653 Calmyourself
Calmyourself's picture

Yes, libertarians dangerous, less government bad..  It is a matter of degrees no?

Sat, 01/22/2011 - 11:34 | 895670 snowball777
snowball777's picture

It is a matter of disingenuous propaganda and alterior motive...if you think they're spending that much coin out of a sense of duty we'd like to sell you some bridges, a little swampland, and some condo timeshares.

Sat, 01/22/2011 - 18:27 | 896302 Calmyourself
Calmyourself's picture

So if I think too much government creates layers upon layers of bureaucracy to no good and just end than I am a victim of "disingenuous propaganda and alterior motive" sic.    Who cares what they get out of it?  So they are able to build a refinery, the first in what 30 years as hopefully environmental regulations are eased.   Please tell me the end game, even the mid-point objectives of their vast money spending.   Is it opposite to the vast money unions spend on political campaigns to increase government?  The Koch brothers have then using your logic removed Republicans from office you would think you would be ecstatic..

Sun, 01/23/2011 - 00:10 | 896705 snowball777
snowball777's picture

No, if you think the Koch brothers are going to do anything about that situation, then you are. The Koch brothers are good triangulators and have made a nice foil while the Pugs scramble to address the fact that they ruined the country they were supposed to represent.

How many Pugs that voted for TARP didn't get the bum's rush this past election from the TeaPotDomeExpress? Consider the senatorial race in Wisconsin; Feingold voted against TARP and twice to end it...he was beat by newcomer, Ron Johnson, who took massive money from the very banks that received those TARP funds.

And unions spend a tiny fraction of what the FIRE sector does. It's all up on, if you'd turn down Rush for a few minutes and take the time to look.

Sun, 01/23/2011 - 00:45 | 896737 Calmyourself
Calmyourself's picture

I agree not enough got the bums rush, how many Demonrats did you help to vote out for the same sin? Heal thyself brother.. We have no disagreement on what the FIRE sector injects into politics it is overbearing. Maybe you should be helping the KOCH brothers they seem to be doing what you want.. Helping to dump R's that support TARP..

$19,164,001 2010 Union total contributions.. Oh no wait that is only public sector unions.. The people we pay so they can use our money to get the officials elected so they can negotiate with them.. Of course this is no problem right..

Sun, 01/23/2011 - 07:32 | 896917 nmewn
nmewn's picture

"Maybe you should be helping the KOCH brothers they seem to be doing what you want.."

Crickets ;-)

Sun, 01/23/2011 - 11:29 | 897022 snowball777
snowball777's picture

Sorry... the 'other' candidate was Carly Fiorina...I'd expatriate before I voted for that incompetent, job-exporting cunt.

No, the Koch brothers are not helping dump R's that support TARP...just providing cover fire for them.

Goldman alone gave more than the entire's a matter of degree. I'd be happy with publicly financed elections that get ALL influence from these parties out of politics, but the Cock brothers would never let that happen, would they?


Sun, 01/23/2011 - 15:45 | 897417 Calmyourself
Calmyourself's picture

I don't know what the Koch brothers will do.  I do know you sidestepped my question above regarding the intent of their spending.  When you characterize it as dangerous you should have some idea of intent. For example, SEIU spends money to place politicians into office so they can negotiate with those politicians and it becomes a self reinforcing cycle.  That is why government unions should be outlawed immediately, worst thing JFK and his group ever did..  Other than blaming the right for his assassination at the hands of a commie..  I will not argue ever that the R's are not corrupt we can agree both sides are corrupt and regulatory capture of the FIRE economy has ruined us.  But I know the motive of business is profit and while it may often times cause unintended bad consequences, pollution etc, I am more willing to live within their corruption than an all encompassing stifling leftist kleptocracy, if I MUST choose.

The left on the other hand, would if I let them control every aspect of not only my economic life but my family life, religious life all aspects.  It is their purpose, their goal and I will not allow this to occur.  You see I sit at a table with leftists every month and every word and deed is consciously or unconsciously the call for a grasping nanny to order others about.  It is a manifest feeling of great inferiority masquerading as hubris and ego came to power, it is dangerous, it is a cancer.

Sat, 01/22/2011 - 12:19 | 895724 JW n FL
JW n FL's picture
by Calmyourself
on Sat, 01/22/2011 - 10:21


Yes, libertarians dangerous, less government bad..  It is a matter of degrees no?


LIAR! Less is better, the Government told me so!

Sat, 01/22/2011 - 18:29 | 896305 Calmyourself
Calmyourself's picture

Do you have a point other than the top of your head?  Infidel, you?  I would like to hear more about that..

Sat, 01/22/2011 - 23:07 | 896620 JW n FL
JW n FL's picture

I was adding some color to your statement in agreement...


Gen 3's... good flash supression... but they have an operational life. as well how are you going to charge those toys of yours?


may I offer...

Not in any way connected, nor do I have one yet... but I do have some on order... to sprinkle around... beware of power surges (when the wind kicks up for a second).

Good Luck!

Sun, 01/23/2011 - 00:47 | 896741 Calmyourself
Calmyourself's picture

I also have Gen 1's.  I have batteries you would not believe, types sizes and recharging options.  I just worked on our wind power ordinance good link, I was thinking Skystream.. but..

Sun, 01/23/2011 - 01:29 | 896765 JW n FL
JW n FL's picture

ac or dc output... Bahamas is a need.. soooooo.

but as long as you are covered.

i dont think youll need it, but better to be a boy scout...

do you have ir filters and / or green?

have you seen nd3 nd4 nd5?

you sound like a hunter... deer?

Sun, 01/23/2011 - 15:49 | 897421 Calmyourself
Calmyourself's picture

Built my kid a nice fort, window overlooks a deer run, ha..  Lay in a hammock and hunt if I like..  Positive filtration system set up in a 12 foot deep poured concrete basement.  DC system run it through a controller to a battery bank, then two large marine inverters. 

IR is a need always something else..

Fri, 01/21/2011 - 20:08 | 894858 Waterfallsparkles
Waterfallsparkles's picture

The FBI just arrested all of the Mobsters but they forgot a few of the biggest in World history.

Fri, 01/21/2011 - 23:58 | 895250 JW n FL
JW n FL's picture

those dumb wops... havent killed .000000001% as many people as the government! FACT!!!

and at least the mob guys would follow thru on a debt, they pay winners!

Fri, 01/21/2011 - 20:09 | 894862 UglyPatheticPauper
UglyPatheticPauper's picture

I keep telling my Bank to raise my Credit Cards but they don't agree with Congress?

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