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Unmasking The Unintended Consequences Of US Central Planning

Tyler Durden's picture




 

The NIA continues with its series of bite-sized video documentaries exposing the stupidity and lies out of the US government. While the previous clip looked at a fictitious world in which the dollar had just died, today's is one which analyzes the plethora of unintended consequences that emerge as a result of the government's centrally planned tinkering. As always, it is a must watch, even if one does not agree with the NIA's overarching theme that government policies will ultimately result in uncontrollable price moves following the destruction of the reserve currency.

Among the 'myths' debunked are:

  • Cash for Clunkers was good for economy and the environment
  • The inflation tax generated by government intervention
  • Foreign oil dependence

And much more lunacy that would make Stalin proud. Worth the 10 minutes.

 

 

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Mon, 12/20/2010 - 15:53 | 819252 RobotTrader
RobotTrader's picture

I warned you guys who are shorting....

To watch the CRB Index.

New highs...

Mon, 12/20/2010 - 15:57 | 819264 Calvin Jones an...
Calvin Jones and the 13th Apostle's picture

Who would short right now considering what The Ben Bernank is doing?

Mon, 12/20/2010 - 17:23 | 819446 malek
malek's picture

You would only hold something like triple-short ETFs (because of limited downside risk) in a Nassim Taleb way: you loose a little money every day, but might make a lot of money some day.

Mon, 12/20/2010 - 21:50 | 819963 New_Meat
New_Meat's picture

"You would only hold something like triple-short ETFs ..."

because you can't do the fricken math!

Hold?

- Ned

Mon, 12/20/2010 - 16:27 | 819315 Ratscam
Ratscam's picture

sorry to interrupt but this is entertaining as hell, with the same message.

WORLD RAP NEWS NR. 6 - MUST SEE!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hl4NlA97GeQ&feature=player_embedded

Mon, 12/20/2010 - 16:20 | 819319 InconvenientCou...
InconvenientCounterParty's picture

jeez. I think the name of the site is satirical, not literal. How can you be in this market and not be hedged? Shorting is one way to to that, no?

Mon, 12/20/2010 - 16:48 | 819379 bbtrader
bbtrader's picture

I'll take the short side on the ES, sometime B4 tomorrow morning.  Easy to manage with a tight stop.

Didn't you say to go long FXI?  Well, DID YA???

Mon, 12/20/2010 - 16:52 | 819384 Azannoth
Azannoth's picture

You where definitely right , but the Market is getting to hot to hold now

Mon, 12/20/2010 - 17:44 | 819493 SheepDog-One
SheepDog-One's picture

RainbowTrader is obsessed by a delusion that everyone except him must be 'shorting'. 

Mon, 12/20/2010 - 18:27 | 819575 the mad hatter
the mad hatter's picture

watch the insiders, don't watch the low volume melt-up. business leaders know that things are terrible out there. our craigslist job posting recently maxed out our HR inbox size.

i'm shorting EURUSD and ES.

http://unconstitutional.blogspot.com

Mon, 12/20/2010 - 19:57 | 819780 NotApplicable
NotApplicable's picture

Wow, now that's an economic indicator. I haven't checked our applications lately, but the last time I did, we were getting over 200 apps for our low-paying entry-level jobs.

Mon, 12/20/2010 - 15:55 | 819258 doomandbloom
doomandbloom's picture

' Trust Me..I know what i am doing'

Mon, 12/20/2010 - 16:49 | 819380 VegasBD
VegasBD's picture

Sledge Hammer

Anyone else remember that show?

Mon, 12/20/2010 - 15:59 | 819274 Miramanee
Miramanee's picture

Central planning, per se, always always fails:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Nm0p4vdpDs

Mon, 12/20/2010 - 16:02 | 819283 Arius
Arius's picture

BUT, this time is different...

Mon, 12/20/2010 - 16:01 | 819280 haskelslocal
haskelslocal's picture

Okay. Things suck. So what's your solution? Idiotic and madening rubbish.

Mon, 12/20/2010 - 16:04 | 819289 Arius
Arius's picture

no - just go along with the show...no solution, just explaining what the show is about (in case you missed it), and how it ends (if you want to get up and leave)...

Mon, 12/20/2010 - 16:20 | 819317 boooyaaaah
boooyaaaah's picture

who is this TPC guy? anyway

 

http://pragcap.com/

Mon, 12/20/2010 - 16:21 | 819320 boooyaaaah
boooyaaaah's picture

Home » Headline, Most Recent Stories

THE COMING MUNICIPAL BOND CRISIS 20 December 2010 by TPC 40 Comments

The following segment on 60 Minutes this evening is a must see. The segment covered the state and local funding crisis in the USA. Meredith Whitney was a special guest and predicted that the crisis would unfold in the “next 12 months”. Whitney says the states are susceptible to hundreds of billions in losses and local insolvencies could be widespread.

This is a particularly interesting development if it were to materialize.  Of course, municipal bonds have been very jumpy in recent weeks and as revenue constrained entities (unlike the federal government) the states have been hit particularly hard by the crisis.  The states are exactly like the nations of Europe so solvency is a very real concern here.  Their bloated budgets and out of control spending has created severe balance sheets concerns.  With a government that is leaning more and more towards small government it will be interesting to see if austerity impacts the US economy through the state funding channels.

We appear to have dodged a bullet in the form of maintaining a $1.3T deficit during this balance sheet recession (and through the coming calendar year), however, the risks at the state level remain largely unknown and difficult to quantify.  If the shortfalls are as large as Whitney believes it’s likely that we won’t have the political will for more bailouts.  Whitney believes the issues are potentially more frightening than the banking crisis:

 

Mon, 12/20/2010 - 19:24 | 819702 CrashisOptimistic
CrashisOptimistic's picture

This is not a crisis.  If this will result in a substantial increase in unemployment, then it is within the purview of Bernanke's second mandate.

He will buy munis.  That takes care of that.

The ramifications and horrors of that can be whatever you want.  It doesn't matter.  He will act to do what the mandate says is his job.  The only thing that can stop him are the new Fed board members about to take their seats.

Mon, 12/20/2010 - 16:12 | 819285 FunkyMonkeyBoy
FunkyMonkeyBoy's picture

There are no unintended consequences with what this bunch of murderous criminals are doing. This has been planned in fine detail for decades, if not centuries and it's playing out with perfection, i bet they can't believe how well it's going. The planned World Government is literally a few more steps away.

Anything that appears to be an 'unintended consequence' is merely a consequences they don't care enough about to control via manipulation. Precious metals to the moon is an 'unintended consequence' of printing unbelievable amounts of money?  The elites, Rockerfellas, Rothchilds, Vatican et al behind this evil, are some of the biggest holders of precious metals. Hardly a bad consequence for them! Heads they win, tails you lose.

Bottom line, you're gonna pay with your wealth, liberty and life for their maniacal agenda.

Mon, 12/20/2010 - 16:24 | 819325 ghostfaceinvestah
ghostfaceinvestah's picture

Agreed.  What is hard to figure out is how much longer they will print money before the pull the rug out on the market again (after being positioned for it, of course).

Could be as short as a few months, as long as a couple years, really hard to tell.

Mon, 12/20/2010 - 16:26 | 819332 Sean7k
Sean7k's picture

I find it maddening, that we all feel like we have to soft pedal what is being done. "Unintended"? Without absolute proof of an action, we have to apologize for our analysis?

This is the problem with so much in America. We require ironclad proof before we allow action, rather than acting on probable cause when the problem is smaller and containable.

We can always go back and restart, but we can never undue the effects of bad policy. They remain with us forever. American leadership are dangerous to the world AND to ourselves.

I firmly believe that if we were to kill ever banker and politician tomorrow, the future would be infinitely better. Not perfect, but better than this cesspool of a country.

Mon, 12/20/2010 - 17:45 | 819496 merehuman
merehuman's picture

Agreed. Now we need to get of our ass and do it.

Mon, 12/20/2010 - 19:24 | 819705 Hugh_Jorgan
Hugh_Jorgan's picture

Human nature, my friend. History shows us, ad nauseum, that we always wait for the "train wreck" before we bother to do anything.

We are all born with a chronic case of cranial rectosis. The natural state for our head is parked firmly where we are unable to see or hear a storm gathering...

Mon, 12/20/2010 - 16:10 | 819290 TruthInSunshine
TruthInSunshine's picture

18 billion in daily POMOized tax dollars given to PDs with a mandate to 'wealth effect' America used to get stocks much higher.

Green Shoots, recovery summer/winter/fall, and Abby Joseph Cohen to all, and to all a Good Night!

http://dailybail.com/storage/goldman%20sachs%20treasury.JPG?__SQUARESPAC...

Mon, 12/20/2010 - 16:07 | 819292 RobotTrader
RobotTrader's picture

Tough to be short this market.

Especially when the Nasdaq and Russell 2000 are leading.

And market leaders are making fresh, new, world record highs.

Mon, 12/20/2010 - 21:53 | 819969 New_Meat
New_Meat's picture

you and Hickey

Mon, 12/20/2010 - 16:16 | 819307 gloomboomdoom
gloomboomdoom's picture

I am LONG AND HARD now.

not going to miss any more opportunities to make money.

I was buried alive shorting the financial last year. Thankfully I saved my ass and my family by buying gold.

I ignored the doomers since Sept and my account has been thanking me ever since!

sorry, I just don't have millions of dollars to speculate like some other more fortunate people. (You deserve it! I am not a leftist-Socialist-Marxist)

Mon, 12/20/2010 - 16:20 | 819316 TruthInSunshine
TruthInSunshine's picture

Good luck to you, and keep your stops short.

Try to at least believe you're fellow shark, if only for a while, and not chummy bait.

Captain Bernanke has never been wrong, and I'm 100% confident you will only be subject to harm for no more than 15 minutes, ever.

You will know the true meaning of long and hard soon enough, friend.

 

 

Mon, 12/20/2010 - 16:24 | 819328 gloomboomdoom
gloomboomdoom's picture

why would Warren Buffet and hundreds of other billionaries go on record saying "We were saved".

Bernanke already said "No Double-Dip" in 2009 and also that he wasn't printing money.

He was correct!

People upset that the COLLAPSE didn't happen now chose to ignore 2009 and just pay attention to "selections" that suit their doomer thesis

Mon, 12/20/2010 - 17:55 | 819512 SheepDog-One
SheepDog-One's picture

Buffet and Bernank say 'we are saved'? Yea pretty easy to say, when you can print billions at no expense and give it to yourself and Buffet. Jesus Christ, are you REALLY this nieve and gulliable?? If so, you have NO business around THIS market and are a clear and present hazard to yourself and all around you.

Mon, 12/20/2010 - 19:00 | 819639 delacroix
delacroix's picture

they meant they are saved, not you and me.

Tue, 12/21/2010 - 10:10 | 820620 RKDS
RKDS's picture

Well the question I want to ask you is why the market is supposedly going up but my stocks, outside of Ford, have been more or less stuck for about a year now.  And I don't mean stupid penny stocks or commodity speculation, I mean companies that do stuff - Philips, US Steel, AT&T, etc.

Tue, 12/21/2010 - 02:55 | 820409 I Am The Unknow...
I Am The Unknown Comic's picture

....ummm just to be fair to any newbies reading this and not yet into the fight part of the fight club....keep a close, constant watch and don't set your stops at 20% discount like I used to because you will get robbed in a flash crash like me.  I no longer place stops.  Rather, I close out most postions daily and am constatnly watching the market like a hawk, while reading ZH and others.  Lunch is at my desk.  Yours should be too, especially these days.  If you must place a stop, it damned well better be a limit order and not a market order.     

Mon, 12/20/2010 - 16:25 | 819331 tmosley
tmosley's picture

You get long and hard from taking it up the ass, eh?

Nice.

If you sold your gold and bought stocks, you've been losing, not winning.

Mon, 12/20/2010 - 16:33 | 819348 jus_lite_reading
jus_lite_reading's picture

As with an impotent body builder, without his daily Viagra, he won't stay hard and long for long.

I'm glad you are long and hard... 1/1/11 is gonna be delicious!

Mon, 12/20/2010 - 20:53 | 819875 1100-TACTICAL-12
1100-TACTICAL-12's picture

agreed no need to sit around crying. Tight stops , take profits regular, let the chips fall...

Mon, 12/20/2010 - 20:55 | 819878 1100-TACTICAL-12
1100-TACTICAL-12's picture

agreed no need to sit around crying. Tight stops , take profits regular, let the chips fall...

Mon, 12/20/2010 - 16:25 | 819330 RobotTrader
RobotTrader's picture

Homebuilders are the strongest sector today.

KB Home just broke out of a huge base.

Mon, 12/20/2010 - 16:32 | 819346 gloomboomdoom
gloomboomdoom's picture

Thank you Robo. You are appreciated around here <3. Certainly our doomers friends appreciate a pair tits (there is a reason chicks don't like you, doomies!)

 

Mon, 12/20/2010 - 16:33 | 819353 tmosley
tmosley's picture

Someone must have heard that I was paying a contractor to do some work on my garage.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pnULS_KfCWE&feature=related Skip to 2:50 for the illustration.

Mon, 12/20/2010 - 16:42 | 819361 dryam
dryam's picture

That rise is only because of the rumors that the Fed is going to burn down 10% of all existing homes in order to help the supply & demand equation.  That Bernank is always playing 5 moves ahead of everyone else.

Mon, 12/20/2010 - 16:48 | 819377 Spalding_Smailes
Spalding_Smailes's picture

RAS' - April's high soon..?

Mon, 12/20/2010 - 19:02 | 819644 SwingForce
SwingForce's picture

Pablo honey, please come to Florida. Please?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kus_2Al4Aw0

Mon, 12/20/2010 - 16:28 | 819336 haskelslocal
haskelslocal's picture

If I hear another POMO hawk say "with your tax dollars" I'm going to scream in vain "LIMBAUGH!" 

Seriously. It's not tax dollars owned by The FED in a fractional reserve system nor is in anything less than dilution. And it ain't my tax dollars, nor yours, nor your child or grandchild's. How well did you know your great, great, great, great great grandpa anyway?   

Mon, 12/20/2010 - 17:56 | 819515 SheepDog-One
SheepDog-One's picture

Yea? So your assertion is the FED banksters will eat the losses? Youre delusional.

Mon, 12/20/2010 - 19:53 | 819770 NotApplicable
NotApplicable's picture

While I can't speak for others, I believe the point was that the issue isn't repayment in taxed wealth (because there can be no real repayment), but theft from all present and future dollar holders due the dilution of purchasing power caused by monetary inflation.

In other words, it's a much larger problem than stated, but that term is used anyway because it is politically volatile.

Mon, 12/20/2010 - 16:32 | 819352 palmereldritch
palmereldritch's picture

Communism=Banksterism

Ask Lenin where the bankroll came from to finance the Red Revolution...

http://reformed-theology.org/html/books/bolshevik_revolution/index.html

 

Mon, 12/20/2010 - 16:35 | 819355 ConfederateH
ConfederateH's picture

How about the unintended consequences of cutting off water to the San Joachin valley in order to save snail darters and the unintended consequences of opening the border to illegals in order to keep the Democrats in power?

http://www.nationalreview.com/articles/255320/two-californias-victor-dav...

Mon, 12/20/2010 - 18:23 | 819565 Dr. Acula
Dr. Acula's picture

>the unintended consequences of opening the border to illegals

Like low-cost landscaping, agricultural, and hospitality services?

Like people free to travel and work where they please?

 

Mon, 12/20/2010 - 21:56 | 819973 New_Meat
New_Meat's picture

Like Dr. Acula doing emergency room work within sorta' 90 miles of the Mexican border? - Not.

Like Dr. Acula paying for "birth-citizenship" for the baby and her extended family? - cha

Like Dr. Acula being a doctor from a really good place?  I'd betcha'

- Ned

Mon, 12/20/2010 - 20:17 | 819362 Questionmark
Questionmark's picture

Whoever writes these needs to go back to school. Ron Paul and Bernanke referring to inflation as a tax has nothing to do with regulations but with loose monetary policy reducing purchasing power in order to make the national debt more affordable. These NIA videos are always littered with those kind of misconceptions. In the metlup video this moron actually blamed the $600 Bush stimulas checks for the rising price of oil in 2008.

Mon, 12/20/2010 - 23:48 | 820143 Questionmark
Questionmark's picture

Several junks for speaking out against an uneducated twat spreading false information, really?

Mon, 12/20/2010 - 16:50 | 819381 gloomboomdoom
gloomboomdoom's picture

Lots to be thankful for this holiday season, folks.

We could be living through a Europe Soveign debt crisis right now (it is absolute heck-fire over there now)

Instead... WE ARE NOT!

I hope you sent your Christmas cards to the FED this year. Ben deserves thanks. His actions are downright patriotic.

I agree. Purchasing MBS with QE 1 was way out of line. But QE 2 is nothing short of NATIONALISTIC!

After all, Japan is doing it at 200% debt-GDP... why can't we!? huh? that is right... nEED AN ANSWER!

Be thankful folks... we were saved from absolute disorderly collapse! :)

Mon, 12/20/2010 - 16:52 | 819383 max2205
max2205's picture

Who put the bolic in parabolic

Mon, 12/20/2010 - 16:52 | 819386 RobotTrader
RobotTrader's picture

Shank and Crank of the Day:

Mon, 12/20/2010 - 16:59 | 819396 gloomboomdoom
gloomboomdoom's picture

the banks are solvent!

It feels great to be an American. This will probably be the best Christmas ever.

I never felt more proud to be an American!

Mon, 12/20/2010 - 17:41 | 819486 pods
pods's picture

It just depends on what your definition of "solvent" is.

pods

Mon, 12/20/2010 - 18:11 | 819540 tmosley
tmosley's picture

If he means "acetone and other flammable liquids" then he's right.

Mon, 12/20/2010 - 20:00 | 819784 NotApplicable
NotApplicable's picture

That's just their new accounting system.

Mon, 12/20/2010 - 18:01 | 819522 SheepDog-One
SheepDog-One's picture

Robo and his other account, made-up adoring sidekick gloomboomdoom giving each other an all day circle jerk.

Mon, 12/20/2010 - 19:07 | 819659 Rainman
Rainman's picture

....rule #1...ignore all trolls not bearing tittys.

Mon, 12/20/2010 - 19:10 | 819665 AmericaRacket
AmericaRacket's picture

I'm pretty sure gloomboomdoom is exercising irony.

Mon, 12/20/2010 - 17:06 | 819415 Smiley
Smiley's picture

There are no unintended consequences, the populace is expendable.  There are only statistical anomalies.

 

Mon, 12/20/2010 - 17:10 | 819425 redarrow
redarrow's picture

What is bothersome about this recession and where the sheeple are is that: Its not that the sheeple do not see it. Its that it takes all their time to put food on the table and keep a shelter on their heads, they do not have the luxury of protesting for a change. Lets say they protest, they know that the full force of the governemtn is going to rain on their heads and bankrupt them with one way or another. With no savings to fall back on the joe is scared and is silent. As long as the food is on the table there will be no placards in front of congress regardless of what the oligarchy does. I guess they know that and keep extending the UI benefits for a loong time. No way out, we have passed the event horizon as far as policy change is concerned here. The bearded fool and the messiah will run us of the cliff, no choice folks either move somewhere where you do not have to put up with this OR keep your eyes peeled and your butt clenched (just dont know what good that particularly would do for whats coming).

 


Mon, 12/20/2010 - 17:59 | 819518 SheepDog-One
SheepDog-One's picture

Protesting does nothing. Protesting is what is designed by your captors to make you feel like you can make a difference. They laugh looking down from their windows at protestors. When is the ONLY time the oligarchy has ever perked their ears up and got a bit wide eyed in worry? When the protestors start throwing in molotov cocktails and picking up arms.

Mon, 12/20/2010 - 18:51 | 819622 honestann
honestann's picture

Exactly true.  The only solution is action, not protest... action like the revolutionary war... get it?  With guns, bombs, explosives.  Until and unless americans take actions against the predators who enslave them (with stolen tax monies), the predators rule.  Period.

Mon, 12/20/2010 - 19:28 | 819713 Smiley
Smiley's picture

Protesting is just loud boisterous begging.

 

Mon, 12/20/2010 - 19:54 | 819773 redarrow
redarrow's picture

True, perhaps then we may have a change. I do not know when that kind of action by the public will happen but it is still a long way off. It sucks but perhaps it has come down to that. I am scared....because dormant volcanoes create an eruption far bigger than active volcanoes. The public may just snap and we shall see Greece times 10 here.

 

Mon, 12/20/2010 - 17:17 | 819434 AchtungAffen
AchtungAffen's picture

What? More shit from Inflation.us? Those people have very little credibility... As in "Chinese workers are better educated than US workers because they don't have UI" sort of lack of credibility. It's like the brownshirts under the command of Econophile.

Mon, 12/20/2010 - 18:07 | 819535 Seal
Seal's picture

and while you’re at it - “it was a great mistake to push lower-income people into housing they couldn’t afford and couldn’t really handle once they had it.” ~ Barney Frank ~

Mon, 12/20/2010 - 18:25 | 819570 dizzyfingers
dizzyfingers's picture

We've definitely reached Mordor and Sauron has The Ring.

Mon, 12/20/2010 - 18:58 | 819635 trav7777
trav7777's picture

central planning can work in certain circumstances but not when the planners are room temperature IQs.

Also, in most circumstances, self-expressing, emergent complexity is FAR SUPERIOR to planning as a matter of evolutionary law

Mon, 12/20/2010 - 19:36 | 819734 Hugh_Jorgan
Hugh_Jorgan's picture

Really? Name an instance where systemic central planning has worked? (and the military doesn't count.) Big IQs just mean more radical visions and a big body count; Hitler, Lenin et al. Central planning never works, it is just a question of whether the failure takes 30 years or 100 years to occur, and whether the process of failing ends up in an economic crisis or a humanitarian crisis.

Free markets with free people is the only system that works, as long as you respect the business cycle. No bail-outs etc. The Fed tried to tame these cycles along with a bunch of other central planning nit-wits. It is a question of respecting God or trying to turn the Government into god, one works and one doesn't.

Freedom nationally, virtue locally...

 

 

Mon, 12/20/2010 - 20:10 | 819802 NotApplicable
NotApplicable's picture

As Mises clearly demonstrated, central planning cannot work as it destroys the price discovery process created by the sum of our individual actions in fulfilling our needs in an environment of scarcity. Even if they do something as simple as freezing all prices on a certain date, it cannot provide a system that responds to our needs tomorrow, as they are variable, not fixed.

To believe that a far-off bureaucrat can manage my needs better than I do is insanity. I have no idea what I'm going to have for lunch tomorrow, and neither does any government entity who would have to plan to provide it for me. The only way it works is if I lose my choice, and it is decided for me.

No thanks.

Mon, 12/20/2010 - 20:54 | 819876 Don Birnam
Don Birnam's picture

+1

Tue, 12/21/2010 - 04:54 | 820452 MayIMommaDogFac...
MayIMommaDogFace2theBananaPatch's picture

Eric Schmidt is pretty sure that he knows what you're going to have for lunch a couple of years from now.

Mon, 12/20/2010 - 20:16 | 819818 BigJim
BigJim's picture

Actually, I think even the military counts as an example of the failures of central planning.

Look at the problems ISAF (heavily, centralised organisation) are having with the insurgents (decentralised, largely independent groups) in Afghanistan.

Mon, 12/20/2010 - 22:01 | 819977 New_Meat
New_Meat's picture

Cheney and Rummy were in Tricky's White House and tried "Central Planning", then discovered that, well, even with their genius minds, they couldn't make it work.

And they learned that, well,

"... self-expressing, emergent complexity is FAR SUPERIOR to planning as a matter of evolutionary law."

don'tcha' know.

- Ned

Mon, 12/20/2010 - 18:59 | 819637 SwingForce
SwingForce's picture

My heart is black, and my lips are cold....

Mon, 12/20/2010 - 19:38 | 819740 bbtrader
bbtrader's picture

CITIES ON FLAME...

Mon, 12/20/2010 - 20:09 | 819798 blindman
blindman's picture

@".consequences that emerge as a result of the government's centrally planned tinkering. As always, it is a must watch, even if one does not agree with the NIA's overarching theme that government policies will ultimately result in uncontrollable price moves following the destruction of the reserve currency.

Among the 'myths' debunked are:

  • Cash for Clunkers was good for economy and the environment
  • The inflation tax generated by government intervention
  • Foreign oil dependence

.

central planning as described appears to be just "pork".  no planning, just

pay offs..  "for clinkers".  no mention of engines going to china.  here we are

into international relations in the shadow.  what was that deal?  inflation tax

is all about inflation and the federal reserve bank.  not really the "government"

at least by some accounts,  more of an international or extra national power

hub that eats human flesh....

and foreign oil dependence,  that would be the defense department and

many urban centers where the bankers own the real estate.

so lets blame the government.?  no.

blame the individuals making believe that they are the government.  see?

 

 

Mon, 12/20/2010 - 20:46 | 819868 Tic tock
Tic tock's picture

China - industrialized itself using five year plans, same with Korea (I forget which one), Singapore, too.

Mon, 12/20/2010 - 21:07 | 819902 Mark_BC
Mark_BC's picture

No, socialism actually does work. What ails the US is not socialism, but corporate fascism.

Recently, Sweden offered to help bail out Ireland .... so, the most quintessential socialist state is in very good shape conomically compared with most other western countries, and it doesn't even have oil to provide that wealth. It is in such good shape that it is in a position to help its free market neighbours....  So, to anyone who says that socialism doesn't work, I say.... look to the real world. You may not like socialism, but you cannot say that it doesn't work.

Sweden and several other left leaning western countries have escaped the banking catastrophes because they did not relax regualation of their banking sectors, which prevented them form over-leveraging.

The problem in the US is not socialsim, rather it is the inevitable ultimate failure of free market capitalism. Through free amrket forces, decades ago the corporations became larger and larger and morepowerful. Their lobbyists became more and more infiltrated into the government and got the regulations bent to accommmodate their further growth. Eventually, corporate America and the US government became the same thing. Once this happens, you have fascism.

So socialism does indeed work as long as government is separate from the private sector. The government's duty is to effectively regulate the private sector, to make it a more fair and equitable world, and to ensure that corporations do not become too large through free market forces and become fascist. The private sector is there to provide innovation and efficiency. Both government and the private sector have roles to play, and they should be focused on keeping each other in check. But the US now has neither a clearly defined private nor public sector. This is not socialism. It is fascism.

But, you can continue to invent some nefarious network of mythincal comminusts to blame if you wish, if it makes you feel better, if it allows you to maintain your denial of the fact that the USA's woes are a result of the ultimate unavoidable failure of free market capitalism. Any way you look at it, the end result is the same -- the USA is finished. I should be long gone by then on the other side of the world, see ya suckers.

Tue, 12/21/2010 - 14:30 | 821573 Encroaching Darkness
Encroaching Darkness's picture

This discussion has also run on Yahoo! Answers (8 months ago):

Q."If socialism is horrible, why are Sweden, Norway, Finland, and Denmark some of the greatest countries?"

A. Those countries' debt greatly outweighs their GDP.

7. Sweden - 264.3%

External debt (as % of GDP): 264.3%

Gross external debt: $881.5 billion
2009 GDP (est): $333.5 billion"  (Endcite Yahoo! Answers)

I won't junk you despite the overwhelming temptation. Your vision of a benevolent, all-knowing, well-meaning government is naive and hopelessly optimistic - the power-hunry rise to the top of any government, and oppress anyone they can - foreigners, minorities, natives, citizens - everyone. If they can steal more power over others, they will.

I do say that socialism doesn't work. My evidence is the former USSR, China, Cambodia, Cuba, and everywhere else it's been in operation for extended periods.

Hurry and cash in your positions - once the Euro collapses, Sweden may well suffer in the backflash - their banking system may be compromised as well, considering their existing uncollectable debts in Iceland, etc.

We haven't had free-market capitalism in the US for ages - the regulations and regulators outnumber the stars, you can't set your own employees' wages (minimum wage laws), hours (fair labor regs), or benefits (see ObamaCare, among others). You can't sell for whatever you want to whoever you want (BATF, interstate commerce regulations, lots more). Free-market capitalism is the ONLY economic system that doesn't rely on COERCION to get results - which is why the power-hungry can't stand it, and try to regulate it out of existence at every opportunity.

The rest of your post is a mix of misunderstanding, wild idealism and imagination that Disney couldn't top.

"So socialism does indeed work as long as government is separate from the private sector." There IS NO private sector under socialism! The government eventually owns the factories, and mismanages them to extinction (see former Soviet countries in Eastern Europe).

" But the US now has neither a clearly defined private nor public sector. This is not socialism. It is fascism." We are not fascists - Americans do not believe in a Master Race, nor national racial identity, nor slaughter of disfavored minorities. We do NOT have clearly defined sectors now, you got that part right - but we have something new here, a mix of Crony Capitalism (my FRIENDS and CAMPAIGN CONTRIBUTORS get their profits guaranteed, and their risks socialized; everyone else can go hang) and Crony Fascism (my UNION FRIENDS and CAMPAIGN CONTRIBUTORS get their payoffs and power bases guaranteed, and their failures forgiven; everyone else can go hang). This deserves a name better than FRAUD AND CORRUPTION, but I don't have one yet - suggestions, anyone?

"Any way you look at it, the end result is the same -- the USA is finished. I should be long gone by then on the other side of the world, see ya suckers." Once you are gone, the rebuilding can begin - please leave ASAP, and take Barack, Timmy, Ben, Barney and Larry with you - we won't miss you and your insane practices, and there's plenty of room elsewhere for you to create your new hell of socialist leanings, far away from us. Maybe Sweden will take you?

Mon, 12/20/2010 - 21:56 | 819958 alpds
alpds's picture

Two points:

1. "At the time when the industry needs it most..." from the above video 1:44

It is mind boggling to see people tearing government apart. Certainly Uncle Sam is not serving the people and its policies clearly benefit very narrow spectrum of society. However, this doesn't meant that government can not function for the benefit of the majority. American population needs to rise up and let their voices be heard. This won't happen in a day or a year. But people must take control (whatever the cost), it's the only way. If peasants of Cochabamba can overthrow corrupt corporate control Americans (with their guns) can do it too.

I reckon that majority of SH readers understand that Uncle Sam and it's policies work for the corporate sector ("industry") at the expenxe of the people. The answer is not to get rid of government. Without government corporations will rape everyone blind.

2. I'd suggest that the directors, writers and everyone else who agrees with "regulation" part of the video read 13 Bankers by Symon Johnson. There is no doubt that the there is an abundance of wasteful and useless regulation. Is that surprising giving the fact that many provisions are written by lobbyists or industry insiders. RISE UP! It's time for uncle sam to work for the people... 

Mon, 12/20/2010 - 22:07 | 819978 alpds
alpds's picture

One thing to keep in mind: we can participate in government but have no say in private/corporate sector... IBM, Ford, Coca-Cola and many other American corps loved and worked (directly and indirectly) with Hitler - dig it up for yourself. 

Tue, 12/21/2010 - 21:41 | 822874 FreedomGuy
FreedomGuy's picture

I am thinking you are a bit younger and naive on government. There are so many flaws in what you write. I will just make two points. First, you presume better and higher minded individuals seek power in government than in the private world. All of world history screams the opposite. Power itself corrupts. You see it everywhere from the airport security to N. Korea.

Second, IBM, Ford, Coke, etc. do not come at you with guns, police forces, or have any damn power to make you report where you got and spent every last cent of income you made. IF they have any power at all it comes through an alliance with those nice people you like in government (fascism and democratic socialism). The government has the virtual monopoly on the use of force and fills the jails with anyone they wish. Your car insurance company cannot force you to buy overpriced car insurance...unless the state makes a law saying you have to  buy it no matter what it costs.

I lied. I will make a third comment. Free market capitalism has never ever failed anywhere. It has only rarely been tried and always limited. In fact, if you even had a basic understanding of free markets you'd realize that it can never fail the same way physics and chemistry never fail. It constantly levels itself, punishes bad and inferior behavior and rewards better and superior behavior unlike socialism. To be rewarded in capitalism you must serve your fellow man and make them happy or you drink Pepsi, buy HP, drive a Honda, etc. You cannot force your fellow man to do anything. It is all a voluntary association.

Tue, 12/21/2010 - 21:26 | 822832 stiler
stiler's picture

Economies are tied to the will of the Invisible Hand. He rules over all. This Invisible Hand has distinguishable economies in the outworking of his purpose, economies in which man is tested in respect to obedience to a specifically revealed aspect.

Paul wrote to the Thessalonians 1'948-9 yrs ago, the Day of the Lord is not at hand. So if anyone tries to tell you the End is near, well... And, he wrote, "that Day (of fiery indignation) will not come except there come a falling away (from the faith) first and the man of sin is revealed." Well, we've had the falling away. For the last one hundred years the west has been overrun by liberalism and apostasy. What remains is the revealing of Antichrist. Most of you won't know him as such, he'll be wonderful. This "Day" of the Lord is otherwise known as the Day of Jacob's Trouble, a "time, times and half a time", a period of Hell on earth, of intense Global Warming. What is happening in the economy means that we are getting closer to this period of time. Here's a chart to make it clearer:

The Beast (the era of Imperialism)

1. united stage (Roman Empire)

2. east-west balance of power (264 to present)

3. One World Gov't

4. 10 nation world gov't

5. Absolute Imperialism (the man of sin, the Beast or the little horn of Daniel who topples 7 of the 10 kings making himself the eighth.)

6. The Kingdom of God's Messiah (lasting 1000 yrs) This is a separate and last era on earth.

Steps 3, 4 look to be much faster than has been the east-west balance of power because the World Gov't won't work. And the last stage is only 7 yrs. So here is your definition for what we're living in. 

So in this economy the will of Invisible Hand is that you would personally believe in and place your trust in his Messiah, Jesus. Our money reads, "In God we trust", not gold and silver. There is something of far greater value.

Wed, 12/22/2010 - 04:29 | 823399 MOAB
MOAB's picture

To Freedomguy; you seem to be applying a double standard to those with great power. Power itself corrupts. YES - Govt or Corporate.

IBM, Ford, Coke etc don't come at you with guns because they get govts TO DO IT FOR THEM. In other words, the govt is to blame for acting against the masses in favour of the rich, but with such huge wealth disparity its to be expected. It is up to those being ripped off to push back and stand up for themselves. If govts arent held to account they will do whats best for themselves.

All western govts now have such a deeply ingrained culture of defrauding their electorates that they are almost to a man incapable of delivering what the people need.

Having said that, it does NOT mean that govts should be disbanded/removed - just held to account. Democracy needs to be reasserted by insisting all the military/intelligence and corporate structures out of their parasitic hold on govt.

As to the use of guns; I think that the use of guns and good govt are mutually exclusive.

NO good govt uses guns. Gandhi didnt need them - in fact he was powerful precisely because he was non-violent. Appropriating powers/govts always deal in violence.

Free Market Capitalism is a ridiculous mirage like the idea of Freedom. Heard of Standard Oil, Microsoft? It pisses me off that people believe that they can be free to do whatever they want and no one has the right to tell them different. Geez we are all social creatures/need each other to survive, and everything i do effects everyone else on the planet, so if you shit on my front lawn I think I am well within reason to prevent you from clinging to the delusion that YOU ARE FREE.

hold your govt to account but not with a gun, please.

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