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The Unwind Begins: Eurogroup President Juncker Redirects From A Broke Europe By Throwing US And Japan Under The Insolvency Bus: "The Debt Level Of The USA Is Disastrous"

Tyler Durden's picture


The first rule of media (especially when dealing with an idiot audience that has a 7 second attention span): when all else fails, redirect. That's precisely what Eurogroup president, and certified, sanctimonious, pompous liar, Jean-Claude Juncker just did today, as it is becoming increasingly clear that nobody in Europe has any clue just what the Greek bailout #2 will look like now that the ECB and Germany are at polar opposites on how to proceed, the ECB thinks it is a rating agency and can dictate what an Event of Default is, and German bankers are willing to cede to private involvement in the bailout, but in a way that is voluntary. The problem is that these three are very much mutually exclusive. So what does Juncker go ahead and do - he redirects to highlighting the problems of the US: "The debt level of the USA is disastrous," Mr. Juncker said. "The real problem is that no one can explain well why the euro zone is in the epicenter of a global financial challenge at a moment, at which the fundamental indicators of the euro zone are substantially better than those of the U.S. or Japanese economy." That may well be the defining moment: by now everyone knows that the global economy is a massive pyramid scheme. Yet to this point, those in control have at least kept their mouths shut. However, when in order to explain one's insolvency, those at the very top of the control pyramid have no other choice than to point out just how broke others are (when in reality it is all one big, interconnected, "globalized" and truly insolvent Ponzi), then the unwind has begin.

The WSJ explains the latest developments in Greece:

Highly indebted Greece needs a "soft, voluntary restructuring" of its debt, said Jean-Claude Juncker, the head of the group of countries using the euro as a common currency, in a radio interview Saturday.

Backing proposals by German Finance Minister Wolfgang Schäuble, Mr. Juncker told Inforadio Berlin Brandenburg that private lenders need to participate in a fresh aid program for Greece, but only on a voluntary basis.

Also, any such move has to be made in a way that credit ratings agencies don't interpret as a credit default, he said. And it needs to be done without the "danger of infecting" other euro-zone members.

That the proposal as set forth at this point is completely unworkable (as Zero Hedge predicted) apparently is irrelevant:

The euro group president didn't explain what exactly such a voluntary, soft restructuring should look like, but he said there won't be a full restructuring of Greek debt.

Finally German banks are starting to realize that the BS-factor of the latest "plan" is becoming more see thru than the clothing in Paris Hilton's latest MTV show.

Meanwhile, Michael Kemmer, head of Germany's BdB banking association, cautiously accepted the participation of private lenders in a rescheduling of Greek debt as proposed by Mr. Schäuble. But, in a radio interview Saturday to Deutschlandfunk broadcaster, he said such a move needs to be done in a voluntary way, so that credit rating agencies don't see it as a default and financial markets don't get unsettled. The BdB represents commercial banks such as Deutsche Bank AG and Commerzbank AG.

However, as Trichet indicated in his latest press sppearance, the ECB is now on a different page entirely:

Mr. Juncker called for an agreement with the European Central Bank on the issue. The ECB so far has rejected any kind of restructuring, be it a "haircut" on the principal of Greek sovereign bonds, or just an involvement of private lenders in an extension of Greek debt maturities via a bond swap, as Mr. Schäuble has suggested.

"We can't push through a private lender participation without and against the ECB," Mr. Juncker said.

In exchange for any fresh program, Greece needs to make sure it reaches its 2011 fiscal targets, Mr. Juncker added. "If Greek policies continue as they have in the first six months [of this year], then they won't reach the budget target," he said, adding that any additional aid would be linked to very strict conditions.

Also worth nothing, is that Juncker has finally learned that keeping silent is actually better than lying outright:

The euro group head declined to give a possible amount of fresh aid, but said figures circulating in the media were right.

Asked whether that could mean anything between €60 billion and €120 billion ($86 billion and $172 billion), Mr. Juncker said he doesn't believe that euro-zone countries will have to come up with such a sum.

Yet here is the punchline:

Not withstanding the euro zone's problems, Mr. Juncker said that both the deficit and overall debt in the U.S. and Japanese economy are substantially higher than in Europe.

"The debt level of the USA is disastrous," Mr. Juncker said. "The real problem is that no one can explain well why the euro zone is in the epicenter of a global financial challenge at a moment, at which the fundamental indicators of the euro zone are substantially better than those of the U.S. or Japanese economy."

Translated: "why are you picking on us?" and "Have you looked at the US and Japan recently?" Translated even more: the Nash equilibrium of the mutually assured avoidance of the topic of global insolvency is now broken. Next up: the US and Japan bash Europe and confirm that Europe's PIIGS are actually far risky than the US and Japan, plus they can't print their money etc. Then Europe retaliates. And so forth.

The blame game avalanche has officially started.


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Sat, 06/11/2011 - 14:36 | 1361428 Quixotic_Not
Quixotic_Not's picture

Good cop, bad cop...agent provocateurism at its finest!

Sat, 06/11/2011 - 15:21 | 1361512 Hedgetard55
Hedgetard55's picture

Actually, Juncker makes a saliant point. We suck big time.

Sat, 06/11/2011 - 16:05 | 1361627 Id fight Gandhi
Id fight Gandhi's picture

Yeah, it's the short bus too.

Sat, 06/11/2011 - 16:49 | 1361718 ratso
ratso's picture

Actually Juncker is deflecting attention from the structural crisis in Euroland just as the articel says.

Hmm - How much will it cost to save the banks that are holding Greek and Portuguese Bonds if they default which they will??

The answer 1.5 trillion+ euros for Greece and about 1.5 trillion+ euros for Portugal.  That will leave the ECB or EU with about 3 trillion euros (or 4.3 trillion USD) more debt than Juncker is making believe they have now.  

Juncker, the Joker, is nose deep in his own doo doo.

Sat, 06/11/2011 - 18:54 | 1361888 knowless
Sat, 06/11/2011 - 20:03 | 1362003 Ahmeexnal
Ahmeexnal's picture

It's like 3 sad fucks about to face the executioner.  All three are getting their heads chopped off one right after the other. No question about that. Yet the first one having his head fitted above the basket starts squealing: "DON'T KILL ME FIRST, KILL *HIM* FIRST!" while pointing at another of the walking dead trio.

Sat, 06/11/2011 - 20:17 | 1362026 dust to dust
dust to dust's picture

 Is that what they do is Squeal when they are asked the TRUTH? Then squeal loud so we can hear the TRUTH.   

Sat, 06/11/2011 - 20:30 | 1362045 Ahmeexnal
Ahmeexnal's picture

But the ages old adage holds:  "To the squeals of a pig, the ears of a butcher."

Sat, 06/11/2011 - 22:02 | 1362167 jeff montanye
jeff montanye's picture

if it's a soft, voluntary restructuring, then the unwind has begin.

Sat, 06/11/2011 - 22:01 | 1362169 jeff montanye
jeff montanye's picture

thank you zh.

Sat, 06/11/2011 - 19:23 | 1361940 macholatte
macholatte's picture

Actually Juncker is deflecting attention from the structural crisis in Euroland just as the article says.


and admitting that he is an imbecile not worthy of his paycheck. It doesn't get any more obvious than this:

"The real problem is that no one can explain well why the euro zone is in the epicenter of a global financial challenge...

isn't it HIS JOB to know this stuff? So he's saying that he and all his sociopath brainiac buddies are clueless. Maybe Tyler can send him a complementary membership to ZH.

Or did I miss something?


Sun, 06/12/2011 - 01:21 | 1362472 RockyRacoon
RockyRacoon's picture

That's Euro-speak for "Nobody saw this coming".

Sun, 06/12/2011 - 10:31 | 1362910 Oh regional Indian
Oh regional Indian's picture

But really Macho, anyone who knows anything much, knows that it's all a game, London/Vatican/DC.
The rest is just distraction. Not worth anger or any wasteful emotion.
That is the structure in place. Three legs. Religion, Military (Pentagram is the epicenter of DC) and of course finance.
The Big Apple, it's just a karmic hell-center. Doing other people's dirty work.

They can engineer a soft landing tomorrow, but sadly we know that is not in the plans.

Sat, 06/11/2011 - 19:28 | 1361950 kaiten
kaiten's picture

3 trillion EUR for Greece and Portugal? Dont be fool. Their entire debt is few hundred billions.

Sat, 06/11/2011 - 20:55 | 1362078 ViewfromUnderth...
ViewfromUndertheBridge's picture


Sat, 06/11/2011 - 20:58 | 1362093 boiltherich
boiltherich's picture

Funny how nobody has mentioned Ireland yet, nor the other fiscally financial basket cases of Spain and Italy, which though they have not yet been bailed upon are in just as bad a shape as any others, they just got creative with the accounting when it was clear that nations in the group were being forced to take bailouts that amounted to debt slavery for their citizens.

Sat, 06/11/2011 - 21:56 | 1362164 ratso
ratso's picture

Kaiten - The calculation is based on the domino effect of defaulting weak euro bonds and how much will be needed to recapitalize the banks and sovereign funds that hold the bonds.      

It would have clearer if I spelled out all the numbers more accurately. 

Sat, 06/11/2011 - 16:31 | 1361688 Quinvarius
Quinvarius's picture

I agree.  I see a lot of pro-dollar hype lately from Rogers, Taylor, CNBS ect.  They all seem to assume the banks will have trouble getting money for some reason and we will have another liquidity crisis like in 2008.  I don't see how that is going to happen with the Fed still in free money money for banks mode. This dollar bounce is just a hyped up trade complete with a sudden influx of anti-Euro propaganda, like every other one.  A weak stock market does not equal a strong dollar or a liquidity crisis.  But then again, all of FOREX is just meaningless rigged manipulation.  The Dollar could go to parity with Euro and bread will still cost $50 a loaf while no one in Europe would accept dollars.  

Sat, 06/11/2011 - 18:54 | 1361898 oogs66
oogs66's picture

yeah, but he is happy to take IMF money to help fix Europe, and the U.S. is by far the largest contributor to the IMF.  does that mean we shouldn't give any more money to IMF for their European operations?

Sat, 06/11/2011 - 21:53 | 1362158 steve from virginia
steve from virginia's picture

There wouldn't be a Europanic if liquidity wasn't a problem.

There are a 'lot' of reserves in finance institutions but not nearly enough capital: not enough reserves when measured against the amount of deficient assets, either.

Of all the actions taken since the Lehman crash, the one that mattered was 'extend- pretend'. Sheets actually balanced for a minute, and liquidity flooded back into markets.

EU's version of extend-pretend has been fully engaged since before the crisis, like all the other props it's not working any more. There are too many bad assets, more are turning bad every day and the point where deleveraging is relatively painless is long since passed.

Now, bank runs and yields rising everywhere but Germany. Liquidity is gone and there is not 'Extend-Pretend 2.0' to call upon!

Even w/ the new bail the Greeks will default. If the current government calls for a referendum, it's game over. ECB will have to buy up all the bad debt or else. Why? B/c the entire world's finance is in danger of a credit freeze, as in 2008.

The Fed will expand its balance sheet you watch. QE is for the Eurodudes and dudettes via swap lines and dollar repos by way of 'lending facilities'. Bernanke will have to do it or  half the banks in the US will fail.

Treasury guarantees will be back like poufy dresses. We are condemned to repeat errors until we learn not to do so.

Best to let weak institutions fail and wipe out stakeholders. Start from scratch w/ new capital and management. Anything else is a waste of time ...



Sun, 06/12/2011 - 05:30 | 1362631 oldman
oldman's picture

"We are condemned to repeat errors until we learn not to do so."

This assumes living intelligence, but it seems more realistic thus written:


We are condemned to repeat errors.

Sat, 06/11/2011 - 14:41 | 1361431 Ahmeexnal
Ahmeexnal's picture

Juncker is an asswipe.

Gates will pull out of Libya and let the "enlightened democracies of europe" to fight Mr. Q bye themselves....and Mr. Q will beat the living shit out of europe.

Sat, 06/11/2011 - 14:43 | 1361435 Neoisolationist
Neoisolationist's picture

You may be right. And this would very much harm what the NWO true believers want.

Sat, 06/11/2011 - 14:47 | 1361441 Confused
Confused's picture

Come on now. This is simply to save face. It would seem Americans are less than happy with our involvement there, and this is just a political move. 

Sat, 06/11/2011 - 15:45 | 1361587 redguard
redguard's picture

Turkey's part of NATO. They have to fracture the alliance before the Turks get dragged into the Mideast conflagration.

Sat, 06/11/2011 - 21:02 | 1362102 boiltherich
boiltherich's picture

Are the Turks still considered a full participating member?  After they denied access to airspace for the northern prong of the attack on Saddam one would think they would have been quietly handed their hats, technically still members but only in name. 

Sat, 06/11/2011 - 15:22 | 1361516 walküre
walküre's picture

Lybia didn't bother Europe before the CIA inflamed the revolt.

Lybia's massive and easy accessible (as in cheap) oil reserves in the desert can be traded in Euros for decades to come.

That is what Lybia is about, you fool.

Sat, 06/11/2011 - 15:30 | 1361537 Ahmeexnal
Ahmeexnal's picture


The european colonalist powers carved up a map of Africa just like they did in the Berlin Conference in the late 1800's. 

Why use euros to buy Libyan oil if you can just steal it....and make Libyans pay for their "liberation"?

That's what Libya is about, you ignorant imperialist fool.

Sat, 06/11/2011 - 15:39 | 1361577 walküre
walküre's picture

You speak of stealing oil and call me the ignorant imperialist fool?

US has been on an imperialist rampage since 1913, the inception of the Fed.

Nato might as well get abolished and let the chips fall where they may.


Sat, 06/11/2011 - 15:50 | 1361600 Alea Iacta Est
Alea Iacta Est's picture

And Europe has been on an imperialist rampage since the FOURTEEN HUNDREDS.


Do you have a point?  Or are you already playing the Juncker card in this thread?


lol, that didn't take long.



Sat, 06/11/2011 - 19:40 | 1361960 kaiten
kaiten's picture

Your country is the result of that imperialist rampage, as you call it,. If you dont like the results of that imperialism, you can give your country back to native indiands. Problem solved. But they are taking it back anyway, so who cares, doesnt it?

Sat, 06/11/2011 - 21:04 | 1362107 Alea Iacta Est
Alea Iacta Est's picture

They are taking it back?  lol....ok.

Are you referring to the mexican immigrants?  They are no more taking it back than the muslim immigration wave from north africa is "taking over europe".  Futhermore, they are no more "native" to North America than the Europeans were.

And I never criticiqued the Europeans for being imperialist, I merely pointed out that European imperialism FAR precedes the American variety.  If you were capable of understanding the context of my response to the previous poster, you would see that.

Sat, 06/11/2011 - 21:11 | 1362113 Alea Iacta Est
Alea Iacta Est's picture

As a clarification, the mexicans are not native to the continental united states.  The idea that they are taking back their own land is silly.  The imperialist mexico of the 1800's colonized some southern regions, they certainly were not native to those areas.

Sun, 06/12/2011 - 07:34 | 1362716 kaiten
kaiten's picture

US will be sooner part of Latin America than Europe part of Maghreb, I´d say.

Sun, 06/12/2011 - 11:43 | 1363006 Ahmeexnal
Ahmeexnal's picture

Well, that pretty much describes what you are: a redneck trailertrash racist.

Go back to your extrawide lazyboy 4000 and keep watching "dancing with the stars", while you wear your KKK grandmaster outfit.


Sun, 06/12/2011 - 12:45 | 1363087 kaiten
kaiten's picture

Talking demographic trends is racist? Mhmmm, I think you have an issue with Census Bureau, then.

Sat, 06/11/2011 - 21:45 | 1362154 Blano
Blano's picture

Just curious.....which third world shithole do you live in??

Sat, 06/11/2011 - 23:53 | 1362323 Al Gorerhythm
Al Gorerhythm's picture

The USA?

Sun, 06/12/2011 - 07:32 | 1362718 kaiten
kaiten's picture

What´s your point, dude?

Sat, 06/11/2011 - 16:14 | 1361648 RollOver
RollOver's picture

Aren't the guys behind the Fed the same ones as those who invented colonialism?

Sat, 06/11/2011 - 16:34 | 1361694 I_ate_the_crow
I_ate_the_crow's picture

"Whoever controls the volume of money in any country is absolute master of all industry and commerce...and when you realize that the entire system is very easily controlled, one way or another, by a few powerful men at the top, you will not have to be told how periods of inflation and depression originate"

- 1881, President Garfield (As quoted by Bill Still in the Secret of Oz).

Sat, 06/11/2011 - 20:05 | 1362008 Ahmeexnal
Ahmeexnal's picture

Behind the Fed lurks the church of Rome.

"In god we trust"

Seems like god is about to have trust revoked by every single human being on this planet.

Sat, 06/11/2011 - 21:07 | 1362106 boiltherich
boiltherich's picture

Russia would LOVE that.  (the end of NATO that is)

Sat, 06/11/2011 - 14:38 | 1361432 THE DORK OF CORK
THE DORK OF CORK's picture

Because so much of our debt is private you dumb shit.

Sat, 06/11/2011 - 14:50 | 1361447 JW n FL
JW n FL's picture

I knew I should not have let you barrow that 5 bucks! damn it! I always end up getting screwed..


why when its "We the People" always getting fucked over in retail.. is it described as transitory? always is a longer period of time than transitory insinuates!


Fucking Hair Cuts!


Never buy wine by the glass!

Sat, 06/11/2011 - 15:01 | 1361467 topcallingtroll
topcallingtroll's picture


Are you sure you know how much debt is hidden in spain and portugal, just waiting to surprise you at the worst time?

Private debt can be rated wrong and perform just as badly as public debt. Pick your poison.

Sat, 06/11/2011 - 16:07 | 1361633 THE DORK OF CORK
THE DORK OF CORK's picture

What is leverage ?

Leverage in this monetory system is the ratio of tax raising powers (goverment money) vs private credit.

If you knew anything about EMU /  Euro you would realise that goverment debt has barely moved in the euro area in 15 years. (with the exception of the shadow bank bailout over the last few years)

Its not the % of goverment debt relative to GDP that is important as this is a false metric (wealthy subjects can reduce consumption dramatically if they so wish)

Its the ratio of goverment debt relative to private credit and since EMU this has gone ballistic in the euro area.

Sat, 06/11/2011 - 18:39 | 1361872 eureka
eureka's picture

Spot on. And, even more relevant: gov debt to to gov revenue.

US fed/state/muni revenue is nose-diving.

US crumbles within 12 months.

Watch and see.

Sat, 06/11/2011 - 22:00 | 1362056 Things that go bump
Things that go bump's picture

Crumbles into autonomous regional areas that go off on their own and leave that bunch in New York and DC to cannibalize themselves?

Sat, 06/11/2011 - 21:07 | 1362114 johnnynaps
johnnynaps's picture

12 months might be optimistic......I keep telling people 5 years. They think I am crazy to even assume it.

Sat, 06/11/2011 - 19:02 | 1361912 Michael
Michael's picture

If you increase government debt to 100 trillion and your GDP is on quadrillion, your debt to GDP ratio is only 10%.

Sat, 06/11/2011 - 21:09 | 1362110 snowball777
snowball777's picture

Best of luck convincing the libertarians how their much vaunted free-marketeers are the credit bubble blowers and the Fed and goober debt little more than a tail thus wagged.


Sat, 06/11/2011 - 23:58 | 1362335 Al Gorerhythm
Al Gorerhythm's picture

Give us some figures.

Sun, 06/12/2011 - 08:00 | 1362734 snowball777
snowball777's picture


76B of securitized credit in 1990...682B (50% private label, 50% GSE paper) in 2008

234.7T nominal


Sat, 06/11/2011 - 21:10 | 1362115 boiltherich
boiltherich's picture

TDOC, when you say "because so much of our debt is private" whose debt do you mean?  Irish?  Irish debt was pretty much all private till the asshole Taoiseach issued that horrific guarantee of all Irish bank depositors, thus making private bank debt public. 

Sat, 06/11/2011 - 14:47 | 1361440 cashcow
cashcow's picture

Let the great unwind begin. A decade of crap ahead.

Sat, 06/11/2011 - 14:47 | 1361442 bugs_
bugs_'s picture

we suck the least.

mon due!  no we suck the least!

konichiwa!! you wrong we ultimate suck least.


Sat, 06/11/2011 - 15:15 | 1361493 yabyum
yabyum's picture

But we do ALL suck! Better get ready to screw the the little people, they will understand.

Sat, 06/11/2011 - 21:14 | 1362122 boiltherich
boiltherich's picture

One of the problems with this soak the poor plan is that the poor have nothing left to take, NOTHING, and their labor can be withheld.

Sat, 06/11/2011 - 14:45 | 1361443 swissinv
swissinv's picture

It's actually the truth and I wonder how fairly priced the CDS spreads are

Sat, 06/11/2011 - 16:01 | 1361625 topcallingtroll
topcallingtroll's picture

typical socialist.

There is no such thing as an objective "fair" price.  The price is the price.  Credibility is key.  You may not like that the world perceives the USA as more credible than the periphery of europe, but that is the way it is.


You may not like how investors have chosen collectively to price CDS, but the price of the CDS is the market signal telling you what something is worth to the people who are buying and selling it.


The market has told you that Greece cannot repay their debts.  The markets are very suspicious of Spain and Portugal, but the markets so far are giving them the benefit of the doubt that there isn't a huge amount of hidden debt.

Sat, 06/11/2011 - 17:26 | 1361731 swissinv
swissinv's picture

There is a CDS market making oligopoly in the US and I could bet some dirty games are going on (given the fact that all major asset classes are either controlled or manipulated). Of course, Greece is in big shit but the US crapped the whole mortgages market and there is nothing worse than this.

I hope this stupid chess game ends soon by standing up Greece people. If the EUR crashes, the new currency is gold (and Europe has a lot of it) which means bye bye Tungsten backed USD and its printing monopoly. If the USD crashes, the  EUR will crash as the USD is the reserve currency. The banking system and derivative market will also blow up if one continent fails.

We're all doomed and we should not make it worse than it already is.

Sat, 06/11/2011 - 19:00 | 1361903 knowless
knowless's picture

the invisible bitch slap eh?

Sat, 06/11/2011 - 21:00 | 1362089 Noah Vail
Noah Vail's picture

Who is "we" white man?

Sat, 06/11/2011 - 21:04 | 1362108 swissinv
swissinv's picture

black & white and you and me

Sat, 06/11/2011 - 18:45 | 1361881 eureka
eureka's picture

"Credibility"... - try military might, global reserve currency and massive debt distribtion.

US credibility is mafia credibility.

GS rigged Greece, like Wall Street Scum in general rigged Euro-preriphery.

US & UK - for whom I coined the term the "USUKs" (retribution time)

are deliberately trying to destroy the Euro, because IT has credibilty world wide -

all the credibility the US$ has lost.

EU is superior to US in most ways and it will prevail.

US collapses within 12 months, precisely because it has zero credibility

and zero social cohesion. 

RE the latter point, just look at zerohedge; two sets of interpretation: 

assorted libertarians against liberals and communists all ready to kill each other

when the time comes. 2012 gang. I know your guns are loaded, cause you say so.

Sat, 06/11/2011 - 22:01 | 1362173 boiltherich
boiltherich's picture

In a true emergency of collapse I think from all the comments I have read that people grossly underestimate the ability of Americans to pull through it together. 

Sat, 06/11/2011 - 14:46 | 1361444 ForWhomTheTollBuilds
ForWhomTheTollBuilds's picture

Another fine episode of Bailout Theater.


The tension level has to rise to a frightening level before taking our money and weakening national sovereignty seem like the best alternatives.

If they are going to get ALL of our money and soveirgnty, they are going to have to push the tension right up to the limit.

Sat, 06/11/2011 - 18:56 | 1361901 eureka
eureka's picture

Apropos your name and "Bailout Theater":

All the big US home builders got all their taxes paid during the previous 5 years back from the IRS after the stock market crashed, plus wrote off their land holdings at their inflated top prices (doublt and tripple the prices at which they were acquired).

Info courtecy insider at a major US developer.

So much for real US nationalism. It's real US cult of individual greed'ism.

EVERYONE in the US is Too Big To Fail - hence the nation will implode.

There can be no nation, without individual sacrifice.

Sat, 06/11/2011 - 14:47 | 1361448 Black Forest
Black Forest's picture

Fundamental indicators of the US, Europe and Japan are much more worse than mine.

Sat, 06/11/2011 - 14:53 | 1361452 Spigot
Spigot's picture

Excellent point and a good temporal marker, which also goes along with the German rating agency which downgraded the US sovereign debt from AAA to AA end of this past week. When I saw that news flash I immediately thought "there is an approved message there", and lest we forget that DAVOS is in session...hmmm.

If they can redirect the fall out from the Greek catastrophy toward the USA, via whatever intermediate pathways, then they can get capital to flow in their direction as everyone flees from one burning cruise ship onto the next one. Europeans are chess players, and they are arranging the pcs right now. American's led by an ineffective and unprepared executive (POTUS) branch essentially are reactive, not strategic.

It has been my guess in the past week that as global capital flows decrease there will be efforts to "de-couple" the vested interest of the various geopolitical elites and for them to attempt to get whatever part of the pie they can for themselves. Japan is now inflowing its capital in order to deal with the aftermath of the Tsunami/Meltdown situation. Europe may do the same in order to deal with its PIIGS issues, which means the global monetary "float" music has or will soon be stopped and only a few seats available to be take. IMO the USA will be the donor corpse which is used for parts... :(

Sat, 06/11/2011 - 15:08 | 1361489 Pure Evil
Pure Evil's picture

Is that why the Bernank opened swap lines with European banks, so they can suck the remaining blood from our veins?

Sat, 06/11/2011 - 15:39 | 1361574 zaknick
zaknick's picture

I agree.

I've been literally laughing my ___ off following the news on these frictions coming to a head. Since the home base of the elites always was Europe, I think that's why the eur/usd has stayed strong.

KKKarma coming home to roost!

Sat, 06/11/2011 - 21:27 | 1362130 boiltherich
boiltherich's picture

USA vs. Euroland, EU needs the USA one hell of a lot more than the USA needs the EU, for one thing without US markets you would have 40% unemployment within a month.  And you would be speaking Russian by the end of the year.


Jesus, I carry US and EU passports, I am feeling a little schizophrenic today.

Sat, 06/11/2011 - 14:55 | 1361456 Mongo
Mongo's picture

I rate Jean-Claude Juncker as JUNCK

Sat, 06/11/2011 - 14:56 | 1361457 topcallingtroll
topcallingtroll's picture

There is a huge difference between europe and the united states.

European banks are more over concentrated and more over .leveraged.

The europeans are so delusional about european superiority that they cannot see the retarded, comical way they are handling their crises.

Bennie and the fed are geniuses in comparison.

Sat, 06/11/2011 - 15:33 | 1361559 zaknick
zaknick's picture

You and your underwater mortgage are s ares shiyless, eh?


reap the whirlwind, biatch!

Roths-upchuck are based in Europe and the local elites will not commit political and literal suicide for saving the FRN.

Welcome to your KKK Bankster Empire KKKarma!

Sat, 06/11/2011 - 15:38 | 1361571 hardcleareye
hardcleareye's picture

I enjoyed Reggie's latest take on this,

" Should the ECB see the value of its assets fall by just 4.25%, which is no longer a remote risk, its entire capital base would be wiped out." It seems that in crafting "prudent" capitalization ratios courtesy of Basel 1 through infinity, the global NWO regulators totally let the ECB slip through the cracks. The finding also confirms what we have been saying all along: there is no way that any form of voluntary or involuntary phase transition that will require the ECB to mark down assets that it has on its books at par (yet are worth 50 cents on the dollar) can ever occur: such an event would result in the immediate insolvency of the European lender of first and last resort, and, in turn, the unravelling of the Eurozone."

Sat, 06/11/2011 - 18:55 | 1361899 swissinv
swissinv's picture

maybe the European banks have just a few SPV less than the US banks

Sat, 06/11/2011 - 19:21 | 1361934 eureka
eureka's picture

TCT - you're funny, you're towing the Bloomberg line of propaganda.

Whenever US markets go down, surely it IS the fault of Japan, China, emerging markets, Europe, North-African, Afghanistan, Iran or, or, or....

What happened to US independence? With all this vulnerability to the rest of the world - the evil anti-"american" rest of the entire world, where is US grit and independence?

Where and when did the US assume this "puritanical" victim-hood complex?

Could it be from Wall Street, this mafia infestation of Anglo-Jewish bail-me-out victim-hood on the surface and fuck-everyone behind the scenes millenial mentality?

What happened to Christian principles - such as prioriticing self-improvement before trying to blaming and pretending to improve everyone else first?

What happened to actively defending the US costitution, rather than merely discussing the purity of one ideology's concepts over anothers at levels equal to simple mud-slinging?

Do you have any intellectual strength and integrity left, US?

Where are the actions, which transcend the self and defend the high principles of true identity and nationhood...?

Sat, 06/11/2011 - 14:57 | 1361459 Idiot Savant
Idiot Savant's picture

With the FED closing the QE tap, it seems to me that we're back in a deflationary environment. While I expect QE3 in the future, I don't think it will be politically palatable until everyone is begging for more, due to a collapsing equity market.

I'm considering selling some Au/Ag while the markets are still somewhat stable, in anticipation of an equity/commodity collapse. If deflation takes over again, I can easily see Au/Ag at $1000.00 and $20.00, before Ben unleashes QE3. Has anyone else considered this play? Thoughts?

Sat, 06/11/2011 - 15:00 | 1361462 bob_dabolina
bob_dabolina's picture

Here is my prediction:

Au/Ag at $50,000 and $800 by next Friday and infinite volatility, but the price doesn't matter as it's going to 0 anyway.


Sat, 06/11/2011 - 15:43 | 1361583 Calmyourself
Calmyourself's picture

Nice Bob, he is not here to manhandle you.. Just create him.. feel better?

Sat, 06/11/2011 - 16:49 | 1361719 tmosley
tmosley's picture

ITT weak stupid cumbuckets tell lies about their superiors.

We will continue to have extremely high volatility (which I predicted months ago, before it started), and the paper price will continue to break toward zero, diverging from the physical price.

Bob, you don't have any credibility here.  I suggest you take your act elsewhere.  No-one here is selling their physical to you.

Sat, 06/11/2011 - 17:21 | 1361774 Libertarians fo...
Libertarians for Prosperity's picture

Yes.  this is correct.

We have already seen the price of paper silver collapse (I think it closed at $25 on Friday), while the physical is soaring. I wouldn't be surprised if physical silver is above $100 by July.

Unfortunately, it is only a matter of time before this entire society collapses.  We need to vote for Ron Paul in 2012, so that the collapse happens quicker, rather then delaying it and watching it happen slowly over time.

Do we really want to make our grandchildren suffer?  that is the question to ask yourself when you vote in 2012.



Sat, 06/11/2011 - 17:34 | 1361793 tmosley
tmosley's picture

Hi Redneck's new sock puppet.

Sat, 06/11/2011 - 19:52 | 1361920 knowless
knowless's picture

full wipeout, silver hits sub 20, buyouts of physical, starts all over again, don't take the shit too personal.

you know it's all going down, so why argue? take it where they leave it.


mos, everyone has an agenda.

you can't argue the basics, it's just the give and take.

in the end, this shit blows, and what you have is what you have, at what you bought at.

you were wrong on a hard hit, that sucks, but the long term when you look at what the majority thinks, isn't any different.


go outside and see what people think is going on, ZH is incredibly insular, the outside world has a completely different narrative.

the federal government has literally no way to control the dollar, it's just a matter of time, this is fact. what will be valuable s up for discussion, but the value of the dollar is not.


on a side note:

i don't know why i'm so marley heavy..

it just seems pertinant, where's the cruzan? i want to hear his take.

Sat, 06/11/2011 - 17:31 | 1361794 bob_dabolina
bob_dabolina's picture

Didn't I tell you I'm 100% in dollars you festering cunt. I'm not buying or selling silver so why don't you do everyone a favor and walk back into the jungle you came out of.

Sat, 06/11/2011 - 18:22 | 1361861 tmosley
tmosley's picture

Yeah, whatever you say, dumbshit.  You have an AGENDA here, and EVERYONE can see it.

Just give it up already.

Sat, 06/11/2011 - 15:23 | 1361525 Prometheus418
Prometheus418's picture

It crossed my mind, but the way this thing is whipsawing, I'm personally not going to do it, and I'm sure I'm not alone there.

I've got physical silver on hand now, and I could sell it at a profit today, but that is really no guarantee that it will be for sale if I go to buy it back tomorrow.  Rather play the longer game, and avoid the big, fast swings.

Sat, 06/11/2011 - 15:58 | 1361619 AVP
AVP's picture


Sat, 06/11/2011 - 19:42 | 1361965 JW n FL
JW n FL's picture

BTFD's! and you will be happy! either paper fiat is destroyed? or they start printing? either way? if you BTFD's YOU! WIN!!

Sat, 06/11/2011 - 16:00 | 1361621 WonderDawg
WonderDawg's picture

I'm with you on the deflation angle, but I'm not selling my physical, though I could take a clean double on my ASE's. Just waiting for the market to collaps and then pick up some more silver below $20 and gold below $850. I think we'll see those levels before QE3 and the following ramp up.

Sat, 06/11/2011 - 16:47 | 1361726 Bay of Pigs
Bay of Pigs's picture

That's just crazy talk...not a chance in hell you'll see those levels.

Sat, 06/11/2011 - 21:48 | 1362038 swissinv
swissinv's picture

I doubt the metal prices will drop substantially as this time the run is into safety and not liquidity (all companies are sitting on cash) as in 2008. An EUR or USD collapse can happen at any time now, thus you shall be better advised to keep your PM.

Sun, 06/12/2011 - 09:48 | 1362848 fiddler_on_the_roof
fiddler_on_the_roof's picture

Yes. This is how I envision too.

Sun, 06/12/2011 - 05:25 | 1362626 ffart
ffart's picture

How about you sell 1-year options on your gold and silver at those prices.

Sat, 06/11/2011 - 14:54 | 1361460 falak pema
falak pema's picture

Well when the Oligarchs start grabbing at each other's balls it can get ugly in the race down to the bottom of the pit; not just for the sheeple but also for TPTB who can then go rogue.... The last time round was 1930-1031...I don't like what happened after that...

Sat, 06/11/2011 - 15:27 | 1361526 hardcleareye
hardcleareye's picture


Sat, 06/11/2011 - 15:34 | 1361549 falak pema
falak pema's picture

I hope your hard clear eyes can see beyond male erections...not that I am against that but its no fun without a honey it takes two to tango ...just like in honest economic play. Not like the current Oligarchical run. Life is a long love affair really...all it takes is the ability to believe up to the last breath. In spite the down side. But I'm pontificating and being as such a 'Pontif of hot air' I'll just say 'viva les erections!'

Sat, 06/11/2011 - 16:04 | 1361636 falak pema
falak pema's picture

Please don't misunderstand me I'm not being sarc...and I'm all for personal freedoms... so I don't need Cd's morality(which I share) nor a splash of cold water on my't get me wrong...and post whatever you like...I have no intention of being rude...or prude...or nude...but that is only because I respect other people's aesthetics...

Sat, 06/11/2011 - 19:45 | 1361971 JW n FL
JW n FL's picture

you should only be rude when you are nude!


people would be so much more polite if they ran around naked!


It is hard (pun) to yell at someone with the the lil man swinging in the wind!


and people who are animated when they speak would have their junk swinging around whether it be titties or ballz.. thats terrible! so!! people would be so much nicer if they were nekked all the time! IMHO! LOL!!

Sat, 06/11/2011 - 20:00 | 1361992 Ahmeexnal
Ahmeexnal's picture

that guy running naked 35 thousand feet above the ground on that iberia flight didn't get politeness in return.

Mon, 06/13/2011 - 05:41 | 1364233 falak pema
falak pema's picture

I think that's what really bugs HCE, she thinks we will all be rude if we were naked here on ZH in our heads, like the guys really are  in her line up of "usual suspects" (naked dudes but not rude, granted!)...One thing I never got to ask her though was...which one of those dudes was her 'Kaiser Soze'! 

Sat, 06/11/2011 - 15:03 | 1361468 Pure Evil
Pure Evil's picture

I think we need a new movie called.

Dr. Urectum or: I how I learned to stop worring and love the Debt Bomb.

(Still stuck on the backend posting)

Also, I resent your inference that I have a 7 second attention span, by my girlfriends last count, it was 4 seconds.

Sat, 06/11/2011 - 15:05 | 1361474 buzzsaw99
buzzsaw99's picture

i wish the usa and eur polis would start fighting for real. owebama has bad breath, trichet is an asshat, bernank eats dog shit, merkel is flabby, that kind of thing.

Sat, 06/11/2011 - 15:13 | 1361490 snowball777
snowball777's picture

I love it. SDR weighting and FX ratios will now be determined by playing "the dozens".


Sat, 06/11/2011 - 15:06 | 1361484 williambanzai7
williambanzai7's picture

Sat, 06/11/2011 - 15:27 | 1361541 Reptil
Reptil's picture



Sat, 06/11/2011 - 15:38 | 1361555 falak pema
falak pema's picture

Those ear muffs look suspiciously 'luxembourgeois' like white washed fiats floating in limbo before they disappear into hot air!

Sat, 06/11/2011 - 17:26 | 1361781 knowless
knowless's picture

i can't flag as anti-junk, a true deficiency.

side note, talked to a german a while back(maybe like 7-8 years), he adamantly proclaimed that the eurozone would not hinder sovereinty, i wish i still had contact with him, would be nice to know how he felt now. at the time i was arguing that like in the US, a common fiat would degrade national(in US "state") boundaries, he was upset by this.

Sat, 06/11/2011 - 23:48 | 1362317 Problem Is
Problem Is's picture


Jean-Claude Juncker:

"Il est sur le donkey kong!"

Sat, 06/11/2011 - 15:12 | 1361487 snowball777
snowball777's picture

Sure my girl's hairy, but yours has big feet.

Sat, 06/11/2011 - 15:13 | 1361492 serotonindumptruck
serotonindumptruck's picture

Merkel and the German people are not happy about the weaponized E Coli bacteria that was released into the German population. This bacteria was engineered in a laboratory to resist all classes of antibiotics. Add to that the enhanced virulence due to Yersina pestis being engineered into the bacterial DNA, and you have the recipe for genocide on a mass scale.

Sat, 06/11/2011 - 15:20 | 1361507 Confused
Confused's picture

Any info you could share?

Sat, 06/11/2011 - 15:22 | 1361522 serotonindumptruck
serotonindumptruck's picture

Rather than list a bunch of sites, I'll ask you to do your own DD and start here.

Sun, 06/12/2011 - 04:25 | 1362592 Reptil
Reptil's picture


it's true. I followed up on that link to the Süddeutsche Zeitung (Respectable newspaper) and there it is, stuffed away on page 12......

Zur Aufklärung und Eindämmung der Ehec-Welle könnte ein gentechnischer Schnelltest beitragen, den das Konsiliarlabor für HUS am Universitätsklinikum Münster inzwischen entwickelt hat. Binnen einer Stunde lasse sich mit dem Test der für den Ausbruch verantwortliche Keim HUSEC41 nachweisen, sagte Laborleiter Helge Karch der SZ. Er berichtete auch von neuen Detailkenntnissen über den Erreger. Demnach handelt es sich um eine Chimäre aus verschiedenen Coli-Bakterien. HUSEC41 enthalte zudem Erbgutabschnitte des Pesterregers. Dies mache den Keim besonders pathogen; es bedeute aber keineswegs, dass er eine Form von Pest auslösen könne, betonte Karch. Verwandt ist HUSEC41 auch mit solchen Coli-Keimen, die nach überstandener Infektion noch monatelang im Körper der Infizierten weiterleben und ausgeschieden werden. Es müsse daher großes Augenmerk darauf gelegt werden, dass die Betroffenen die Keime nicht durch mangelnde Hygiene an andere Menschen weitergeben und so eine neue Krankheitswelle durch Sekundärinfektionen erfolgt, warnte Karch.


Sat, 06/11/2011 - 15:19 | 1361515 Ahmeexnal
Ahmeexnal's picture

Tourists worlwide are being cautioned about food/water in Germany, calling the outbreak "Mengele's revenge".

Sat, 06/11/2011 - 16:37 | 1361690 Orly
Orly's picture

Quite clever, that.


Sat, 06/11/2011 - 15:19 | 1361517 hardcleareye
hardcleareye's picture

If your going to make statements like these, please cite your sources!!!!!!!

I don't mind putting my "tin foil hat" on now and then...... 

Sat, 06/11/2011 - 20:55 | 1362084 Cathartes Aura
Cathartes Aura's picture

I found it here:

also found this interesting:

colloidal silver will be essential in the coming months. . .

Sat, 06/11/2011 - 15:24 | 1361529 American Sucker
American Sucker's picture

Doubtful.  Evolution is still much better at engineering defenses than scientists are.

Sat, 06/11/2011 - 15:28 | 1361530 walküre
walküre's picture

This theory is a real option.

The epicenter of the infections is around Hamburg and the areas of Lower Sachsony surrounding Hamburg.

I blame industrial production of food, quotas and EU bureaucracy.


Sat, 06/11/2011 - 15:44 | 1361584 falak pema
falak pema's picture

I blame the refusal of people to balance reason and emotion and Oligarchs playing on this societal thread callously. This bio thing is fine but you can't outsource massively food to China and pharma to India, where quality assurance is not what we expect, and think there will be no consequences. As it is we have this industrial non quality outs because our own TBTF corporates fail. So why shouldn't it be worse in 'hopalong' china land? Where they are more hungry to make a fast buck than these WS sharks!

Sat, 06/11/2011 - 15:50 | 1361602 Reptil
Reptil's picture

I have not been able to find any evidence. That doesn't mean there is none. The whole thing STINKS (in more ways than one).

Please excuse the sameless copy paste, but this is relevant:

This news from Der Spiegel was interesting:

Quote: "On Tuesday, the German newspaper Süddeutsche Zeitung reported that Karch had discovered that the O104:H4 bacteria responsible for the current outbreak is a so-called chimera that contains genetic materia[l] from various E. coli bacteria. It also contains DNA sequences from plague bacteria, which makes it particularly pathogenic. There is no risk, however, that it could cause a form of plague, Karch emphasized in remarks to the newspaper."

I haven't been able to find any previous studies finding incorporation of plague bacteria DNA into E. coli in the 'natural' environment, but found this study concerned about the opposite transfer.

Quote: Multiple Antimicrobial Resistance in Plague: An Emerging Public Health Risk

Welch TJ, Fricke WF, McDermott PF, White DG, Rosso M-L, et al. 2007 Multiple Antimicrobial Resistance in Plague: An Emerging Public Health Risk. PLoS ONE 2(3): e309. doi:10.1371/journal.pone.0000309

"Recently there also has been a rapid worldwide emergence of MDR foodborne bacterial pathogens [6], [7]. While these resistant variants can be transferred to humans via contaminated food supplies, subsequent infections usually result in a self-limited gastroenteritis that does not require antimicrobial therapy [8]. However, since these MDR determinants are often encoded on mobile plasmids, the potential transfer of MDR phenotypes from foodborne pathogens to more virulent human pathogens, including Y. pestis, constitutes a serious public health threat.

Here we report the complete sequence and comparative analysis of three nearly identical large (>150 kb) MDR plasmids isolated from Yersinia pestis [5], Salmonella enterica ser. Newport and Yersinia ruckeri. Our findings indicate a very recent common origin for these plasmids. Moreover, we present evidence that a common plasmid backbone is prevalent among E. coli, Klebsiella sp. and multiple Salmonella serotypes isolated from retail meats in the US, and among some food animal isolates of E. coli. Our data imply that high levels of MDR in the causative agent of plague may rapidly evolve naturally, and present a vital biomedical, public health, and biodefense threat."

So far the only transfer of Y. Pestis genes to E. Coli that I could find have occurred in labs.

Here's an article about bacteria evolution focusing on Yersinia and E. Coli that I think is saying that 'pathogenic islands' in the genome of a bacteria strain makes it more likely to pick up new genetic material that could potentially make it even more pathogenic.
The evolution of bacterial diseases


"Studies such as this, which attempt to piece together the genetic events which led to the development of diseases are relevant to current concerns about the appearance of new and unsuspected epidemics against which we have little protection. An example is Escherichia coli strain O157. This differs from more familiar less harmful, strains in causing severe diarrhea and possibly death. The complete genomes of two non-pathogenic strains of E. coli have been sequenced (5). Now the O157 sequence is being analysed and compared with the other E. coli sequences. So far the comparison has revealed the gene for shiga toxin from the diarrhea-causing bacterium Shigella (on a bacteriophage) (7), virulence genes carried on plasmids and a pathogenicity island. There is also evidence for a higher than normal mutation rate due to defective repair of mismatches in sequence between DNA strands. Such defects also make it more likely that foreign DNA will be incorporated into the chromosome. This potential for accelerated genomic change could increase the rate of acquisition of pathogenic characteristics."


After damaging Spain's exports, Barroso now moved on to blame this on ORGANIC FARMING.

Massive regulation will be put in place as soon as possible.

They want to control our food by disrupting that they cannot control.

This is after regulating the sale of medicinal herbs last april. (which are helpful against bacteria!)

Worse; pathogens of previously unknown species have been found in Glyphosphate (Roundup) treated crops, and the animals that feed on it. The microfungal pathogen reproduces, and jumps the plant-animal barrier. It is poisionous and causes 45% of spontane abortions and death in livestock.

To put this all into perspective. "The war on food" is on.

Sat, 06/11/2011 - 16:16 | 1361651 Ahmeexnal
Ahmeexnal's picture

Now you know why they also ban mary jane.

Sat, 06/11/2011 - 17:02 | 1361746 zaknick
zaknick's picture

Absolutely fits in with:

and NAFTA and other FTAs which destroy the agrarian economies. I heard da genocidal joo Kissinger say that it is because when they are uprooted to the city slums they have to redefine their relationship with their surroundings providing the excellent brain washing opportunity. Colombia has 5 million internally displaced because of the KKK-Zionista banksters drug trafficking-money laundering through the British Commonwealth ways. Not that AneriKKKans care but there it is.

The bilderbergers' real objectives.

Germany thinks it's a free country...blah!

Sat, 06/11/2011 - 19:15 | 1361929 JohnG
JohnG's picture

Go long doxycycline....

Sat, 06/11/2011 - 20:00 | 1361991 serotonindumptruck
serotonindumptruck's picture

Probably resistant.

I'll stick with colloidal silver supplements.

Sat, 06/11/2011 - 15:18 | 1361501 Segestan
Segestan's picture

The result of a social decay:     It is easier to find men who will volunteer to die, than to find those who are willing to endure pain with patience.
Julius Caesar

Sat, 06/11/2011 - 15:47 | 1361592 falak pema
falak pema's picture

What is the aim of that remark? If its to fight Caesar's wars...who gives a shit!

If its to fight against Caesar then its worth debating!

Sat, 06/11/2011 - 15:22 | 1361514 Cursive
Cursive's picture

Redirect.  Yes indeed.  I have a neighbor who, upon being asked her family recipe for ice cream, began stammering incoherently then exclaimed, "Look, a squirrel," and hurried off.  The stakes are higher for Trichet, but he's just like my sad old neighbor.

Sat, 06/11/2011 - 15:23 | 1361527 Volaille de Bresse
Volaille de Bresse's picture

"Let the great unwind begin. A decade of crap ahead"

Why being SO optimistic? A lifetime of crap ahead sounds fairer to me...

Sat, 06/11/2011 - 15:30 | 1361545 pauldia
pauldia's picture

The intertwined interconnected world will simultaneously and under IMF guidance issue a devaluation of all debtor nations in line with a new reserve currency or currencies. Junker is just setting the stage, the meetings have all taken place, after the 2012 election is the time frame.

Sat, 06/11/2011 - 15:35 | 1361548 Franken_Stein
Franken_Stein's picture


Thank God Germany doesn't take part in that Libyan CIA instigated "revolution".

We also abstained the vote in the UN security council on the Libya air raid resolution.


See, when Germany attacks foreign sovereign countries, like in WWI+WWII, it is not right, which I totally agree with.

Now we learned from past mistakes, and we don't attack other countries,

and now all of a sudden THAT is also not right (Gates blasting European NATO partners)


So what now ?

Which way do you want it ?


Ah, now I got it.


Now that Germany is a vasall state of the American oligarchy, the wars are of course good wars, while when it went against the British and French (read: Rothschild) oligarchy,

that was a bad war of course.


But independent of what Mr. Gates thinks,

we will NOT take part in any wars of aggression against sovereign states.

Never again.

We will only act in self-defense, which is not the case here with Libya.

We're done with wars, that chapter is closed.


And personally, I couldn't care less what Gaddhafi is doing in his country.

We neither have the military nor financial means to play world policeman, when even the U.S. with such a gigantic army can't.


One would have to overthrow more than 50 tyrants and dictators.

Good luck with that.

As if these wars are about "human rights".

Ahahahahaha !


Furthermore, there is a paragraph in the German penal code, that explicitly forbids starting a war of aggression (attack war):


§80 StGB: Vorbereitung eines Angriffskrieges

"Wer einen Angriffskrieg (Artikel 26 Abs. 1 GG), an dem die Bundesrepublik Deutschland beteiligt sein soll, vorbereitet und dadurch die Gefahr eines Krieges für die Bundesrepublik Deutschland herbeiführt, wird mit lebenslanger Freiheitsstrafe oder mit Freiheitsstrafe nicht unter 10 Jahren bestraft."


§80 penal code: Preparation for a war of aggression

"He who prepares a "war of aggression" (article 26, paragraph 1 basic law), that the German Federal Republic is supposed to participate in, and by doing so enables the danger of a war for the German Federal Republic, shall be punished with lifelong imprisonment or with imprisonment not under 10 years."


So every German chancellor and politician is bound by that law and can be sued in court if he/she takes part in such an illegal enterprise.


This German penal law is a direct result of WWII and was crafted under the rule of the "allies".


So basically Mr. Gates is clamoring about a behaviour that another past American administration explicitly dictated into the defeated nation's new constitution and penal code.


What irony ! What ignorance towards history !

Sat, 06/11/2011 - 15:39 | 1361566 walküre
walküre's picture

+ ein Euro für zwei Dollar

US ist bankrott.

Morally and politically bankrupt for a few decades and now also financially bankrupt.

The rot is deep in Washington.

Americans will learn the hard way how they've been duped, oppressed, manipulated and extorted for years. Pity on them as the country started off on a great footing.

Sat, 06/11/2011 - 16:30 | 1361656 Reese Bobby
Reese Bobby's picture

Don't peddle your German griff here you Sergeant Shultz dummies.

"We are good krauts now so please pay our National Defense costs while we fuck over everyone as usual."


And by the way, German food is the most over-rated slop on our planet.  Fucking Ireland cooks better than you goose-stepping cunts.


-General Patton

Sat, 06/11/2011 - 16:32 | 1361684 Franken_Stein
Franken_Stein's picture


Are you an Astroturfer ?


Sat, 06/11/2011 - 16:39 | 1361697 zaknick
zaknick's picture

That's what you get for thinking AmeriKKKans are anything but goose-stepping KKK supporters of empire. The new Romans they fancy themselves.

We shall see!

Sat, 06/11/2011 - 19:27 | 1361942 GOSPLAN HERO
GOSPLAN HERO's picture

KKK membership is for FBI informants only.

Sat, 06/11/2011 - 19:25 | 1361939 GOSPLAN HERO
GOSPLAN HERO's picture

Irish food is good?

Any food from from anywhere in the British isles SUCKS!


Sat, 06/11/2011 - 20:14 | 1362018 Reese Bobby
Reese Bobby's picture



Actually, I was intentionally comparing German cuisine with that of a Country not know for their fine culinary skills.  Get it?





Sat, 06/11/2011 - 16:00 | 1361622 Reptil
Reptil's picture

Good post.. Sadly in my country (The Netherlands) the law doesn't have the same "ring" because we don't have a federal constitutional court. So they're basically doing whatever the people let them do.

The Netherlands are going back to Afghanistan, said our government. Despite a retreat under pressure from the public opinion. This was 3 days after the Carlyle Group bought Alpinvest, the investment branch of the largest pension fund here. Also, suddenly all pensions could be paid, while they've suffered massive losses on investments in the USA (real estate, Fanny and Freddie)

Basically that was a sellout. The public have yet to be told what the other end of the deal is.

What's up with Germany in Afghanistan? Isn't that punishable by that §80 Penal code?

Sat, 06/11/2011 - 16:18 | 1361657 Franken_Stein
Franken_Stein's picture


Thanks for your answer.


Well, they justified it with:

1. America having been attacked (9/11), which of course was an inside job

2. The common "NATO case of mutual assistance" being invoked


And therefore "an attack on the U.S. is an attack on a NATO member and therefore an attack on all NATO members".


How convenient.


And all this when poll after poll shows, that >70 % of Germans oppose the war in Afghanistan and want to get out by yesterday, if you know what I mean.


This government is governing against the common will of the German people.

This sucks !


Sat, 06/11/2011 - 21:43 | 1362126 Reptil
Reptil's picture

Thank you, don't mention it. :-)

I think Merkel, and here Maxime Verhagen et al overestimated their position. When the shit hits the fan, and it will, they won't be able to stick our people with the debt. They'll be stuck with their descision to "guarantee" private institutions in 2008. Their story is crumbling. I find it a huge mistake they made, to recklessly put a good idea (unified european trade union) and stick it in some hole that a financial market created, in the hope that it would plug the (ever widening) gap. IMO they were fooled, or are complicit to the plan to wreck the nation states, so these can and will be replaced by something "greater". How on earth can something be beneficial to trade, when it's created by blackmail and is controlled by some supra-national entity without any backing of democratic law, or even any sound fiscal policy. The European Commission was never intended to be more than clerks, that manage the store, in the gradual runup to a tighter union. But they've become hungry, and connected. What is Van Rompuy doing in Bilderberg? We never elected him, he's a nobody. Yet there he is. These are not elite, these are cheap hacks with expensive cars. Sellouts to an idea of a unified world under their leadership that doesn't exist. I'm all for "Europe" but not with a silent coup like this. It's the dissonance created by these morons that wrecks europe. The same dissonance that allowed holes in the budget of the EU to remain for years. They were clerks to keep a tidy ship. THAT was their only job, and they screwed it up. Instead they saw the temporary upswing in 2009 and the latter half of 2010 as a confirmation that they and their position somehow became more important.

As for Afghanistan, this is really simple: You can calculate how much time is needed to stage an attack as was intitiated 2 weeks after 9-11. And it's not 2 weeks. Not by a long shot. That is all anyone has to know about this. Back in 2001 many were innocent and naive, but after Iraq, and Libya, that has changed. And I'm not the only one that sees through the BS. Polls show 90% of the german population doesn't believe one word of the official 9-11 story. Here it's less, because we have a strong american influence here. But still our government, our top corporate management, our top officials, and of course the mainstream media continues on their course towards a "safer" society despite the silent majority disagreeing. Silent as in watching, not taking action yet. Majority as in "majority of electorate at the last elections. We did not forget. We do not appreciate our liberty being taken away because of some scare tactic.

The political landscape: It strikes me as ironic that here the green party as well as the socialist party (they're a sort of maoists) have sided with big pharma, big militairy etc. in the persuit of a "greater europa" because they believe this deal will give them a "better world" (without pollution). They honestly believed that a political solution would solve the financial crisis, somehow. That after the collapse they would be allowed to take the reigns if they just were in the "right camp". What a naive fools. Their regulations will be swords in the belt of big industry. Without democratic representation, a regulation is nothing but some nonsense to further the position of a corporate monopoly (those that have access to the EU clerks)

A possible scenario? Instead of some slippery path towards a deep pit with banker slime, I see an opportunity here:

I still want the euro. I still want a european trade federation. First tell the citizens they are (just like the chinese did) encouraged to put a chunk of their savings into gold and silver. Hell yes, do a bank run. Then, let the banks that are overleveraged collapse, and default. They said twice they passed a bank test? Well there's your real world bank test. Governments too if they have to. Let each government sort out it's own mess. NO more moneyprinting because of some megalomaniac government somewhere. There's enough wealth and assets to go around. One of the richest parts of the world. Of course there's going to be a struggle: There'll be lots of screaming and nonsense, and blackmail, and further attacks on our foodsupply, perhaps even an attempt to start a civil war in this momentary chaos. But then it'll be just the strong ones that are left standing. With them, start anew with a commodities backed euro (gold, land, other public assets). Let's give it the token name goldeuro? Next up, nationalise and tighten control over government run institutions, like healthcare, defense, education, energy, food, monetary policy and security. Create a cheap but solid playfield and very strict rules as for what is the requirements. Not more, not less. Not like the regulations now, that are lobsided. Then allow for a free market, within those rules. No cartels, through strict law. Why? The promise of privatisation has led to nothing but government subsedised cartels, as power remained in the same hands but control evaporated. Some companies have a backdoor (the big ones) into the government building, and the rest of us don't? That is not right. There need to be a level playing field. Only then can we have a free market. Only then can government debt be reigned in. It's two things that must go hand in hand. If europe disintegrates, because of the stupidity of these nearsighted scared men (fear does make blind), we lose southern europe. We need those countries, because they're a mirror of our own economies. What is not so interesting now, may turn out to be very interesting for all european countries.

Oh yeah one other thing. High treason must be dealt with. In an appropriate manner. The alternative is civil war. I'm not joking. As you can see I have both left wing and right wing ideas. I don't give a fuck where they come from. I think this new age needs new public representation, that reflects the growing amount of informed, aware citizens. The current politicians are good at giving each other jobs, but they've rendered themselves obsolete, just as their media lapdogs.

Sat, 06/11/2011 - 23:20 | 1362282 ConfusedIdiot
ConfusedIdiot's picture

TU Reptil. Don't know who you are but wish I knew you better. Your comments here sum up my thinking on both the left and right. I hope this inciteful exposition is posted for many others to see. You say what many think but cannot put into words.

Gracias, CI

Sun, 06/12/2011 - 03:07 | 1362559 Reptil
Reptil's picture

De nada. :-) I should've done some other work yesterday, but had to write this.

Please feel free to shoot some holes in it, I hope to learn something by being proven wrong on these issues.

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