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US Citizen Killed During Gaza Flotilla Raid
It is one thing for a country to attack a boat somewhere out of sight (and soon out of mind, as the collective American memory fades after 24 hours, whether it is geopolitical, or 1,000 point Dow crashes) in which the people killed are foreigners: the administration can talk up its teleprompter game which achieves nothing, but gives the impression of action (very much the same as what is happening in the Gulf), until people, sick of the spectacle, desire to move on. However, when a US citizen has been shot and killed during an armed incident in international waters, well, then talking ain't gonna cut it. It appears this is precisely what happened during the Gaza flotilla raid: "The U.S. confirmed that an American citizen, identified as 19-year-old FurkanDogan, was killed by multiple gunshots during the Israeli raid on a flotilla carrying activists attempting to run a blockade of the Gaza Strip ." To quote Marcus from Bad Boys: "Shit just got real."
From Bloomberg:
The Mavi Marmara was carrying 581 passengers, about 300 of them Turkish and the remainder from about 30 other countries including Greece, the U.K. and Algeria, Turkish Deputy Prime Minister Bulent Arinc said on May 31. Arinc accused Israel of “piracy” for boarding the vessels in international waters.
Dogan was born in Troy, New York, according to State Department spokesman Philip J. Crowley. The Dogan family now has his body, which is en route to their hometown in Turkey for burial, Crowley said.
A second American was injured on the ships and a third in a subsequent protest, according to Clinton. The U.S. is looking into what had happened to the Americans involved, she said.
“Protecting the welfare of American citizens is a fundamental responsibility of our government and one that we take very seriously,” Clinton said. “We are in constant contact with the Israeli government attempting to obtain more information.”
Clinton said this week that the situation in the Gaza Strip is “unsustainable and unacceptable” and that “ultimately the solution to this must be found in an agreement on a two-state solution negotiated” between Israel and the Palestinians.
The flotilla raid and the uproar surrounding it haven’t affected talks between Palestinians and Israelis, Crowley said. U.S. Middle East envoy George Mitchell, speaking in Bethlehem, said there should be a renewed focus on the talks.
From a purely diplomatic perspective, the continued attempts by the Obama administration to play down international outrage, when none other than an American citizen has been killed, will look very suspect to the international community, and risks the spillover and redirection of global anger, currently aimed at Israel, straight at the US.
In other news, AP provides advance notice of a Larry King interview with President Obama on this topic:
President Barack Obama is calling the deadly Israeli raid on an aid flotilla bound for the Gaza Strip "tragic" and says the loss of life that resulted was unnecessary. Obama stopped short of condemning the actions of Israeli forces, saying that the U.S. wants to wait for an investigation.
Obama says he believes Israel should agree to such an investigation because the incident isn't good for their long-term security."
Obama spoke in an interview with CNN's Larry King airing Thursday night.
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+1000
+1000
She was photogenic in a way that told just the right story at the instant the shutter fell, and that's all we need to know. I'm so convinced now.
well said Zero
Problem: checkpoint. Solution: Freedom. There, easy.
Problem: School bus bombers.
Solution: checkpoint. There, easy.
Problem: rockets from Gaza
Solution: Check cargos. There, easy.
Problem: Hamas loves death.
Solution: Give it to them. There, easy.
Easy, peasy, lemon squeezy.
Don't forget they want to be martyrs.
If I remember correctly, they love death as much as we love life.
Give it to them. There, easy peasy, lemon squeezy.
Thank you for reminding me of the second rule of imperialism. (1) they're not quite human and (2) we're just giving them what they want - at least according to their freaky primitive religion (which has no blonde idols)
+ 1 2 3
PLUS ONE FUCKING THOUSAND!
She was at a closed checkpoint. Next time you see a Hamas protest...check out the way the people are stacked and what they are wearing. Newbs, the young and foreigners are placed out front wearing standard clothing. The look a few rows back....fully clothed, gloves, arms wrapped, face covered, goggles, bike helmets, backpacks...these are the operators of the crowd. The newbs are put out front so if the shooting starts it's much more sensational....wounded and dead kids or foreigners makes for much better news.
The reason some of the agents provocateurs in these demonstrations have their heads covered is so that you can't see their kippot.
Same same as at the WTO demonstrations - the guys fomenting the shit are cops - make some noise ,throw a couple of bottles, so that your chums can kick the shit out of the protestors (in Seattle etc) or open fire (in Gaza & the West Bank).
The reason the provocateurs keep their identities secret is that otherwise they would be 'made', and the shit would follow them home.
(It is with profound shame that I confess to having done precisely the stuff I mention here, in a former life as an armed government drone-thug).
If there are four people in a 'terrrrrrist cell', 3 of them will be infiltrators (CIA, FBI, or undercover cop) and the other one will be retarded.
The political class understands that they have to keep the population scared so that they don't object as the parasites steal all their shit. So there are manufactured episodes aplenty - it's all part of the Spectacle.
Cheerio
GT
It also happened in Montebello Quebec at the North American leaders summit. The cops were caught pretending to be protesters and trying to incite violence. They wore hoods just as you claim. The Quebec police were instructed to do so by the R.C.M.P. who were acting on orders from un-named players. It's a fact and to the credit of the cops they admitted they were cops... but were only there to observe.
You decide for yourself!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=St1-WTc1kow
And read it and weep!
http://mostlywater.org/u_s_military_to_crackdown_on_spp_protesters_at_mo...
Let's pull our heads out of our collective asses people and breathe the cool clean air of reality!
Remember the Liberty?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Liberty_incident
Yes? No?
rt
No one remembers the Liberty, rt. It's not part of the official, "let's-all-suck-Israel's-dick" history.
Your right chet...
"Let's all suck Israels dick"... and pay them what? $8 billion dollars a year for the privilege.
I see a lot of people here are lining up to do just that! I should sell tickets.
"REMEMBER THE LIBERTY" and those American servicemen who died at the hands of the Israelis. They even returned to finish the job if I am not mistaken (which often I am...)
Where is your sense of American tribalism now? I mean really... where is it? You are either with our dead servicemen or against them!
P.S. If that were Russia what do you think the appopriate response would have been?
Junk me? That's the best you can do?
Come on you GIYUS douchebag supporters... come on out where I can see you... you fucking COWARDS!
I've got plenty to talk about from your "terrorist" attack on British diplomats at the King David Hotel on down... taste the sword that is my tongue!... let's fucking party!!
"taste the sword that is my tongue!... let's fucking party!!"
Hey...Velobabe!
Did you like that "taste the sword that is my tongue" thing? I have no idea where it came from!
I was hoping to land a "May the fleas of one thousand camels infest your armpits" somewhere... but no-one came out to play!
Yeah, probably no one wanted germs. Give 'em hell.
I've always liked the "I don't want to talk to you no more, you empty headed animal food trough wiper. I fart in your general direction. Your mother was a hamster and your father smelt of elderberries." taunt.
+1
+10
One of the Americans that the Israelis didn't murder was a survivor of the USS Liberty.
And there was a Jewish Holocaust survivor as well. If I weren't an athiest I'd be praying for him right now... but I am definitely fucking hoping for him.
err... her!
(told ya I'm wrong sometimes!)
and it remains the only major maritime incident in U.S. history not investigated by the U.S. Congress.[3]
You're furkan kidding me!
... Good one...
anyone who calls other person a terrorist is a .....
wait for it....
FUCKIN TERRORIST
make that furkan terrorist.
1.) International waters
2.) Hamas was democratically elected
3.) And a question because I am willing to admit when I don't have all the answers. Is the blockade of Gaza legal or not and under which laws?
4. The elected government of Gaza declared war on Israel and continues to fire upon them. Israel is blockading them. What again is illegal about that?
The Maritime laws allow you to board any vessel you deem a potential threat, even in international waters.
Plus 10,000.
If rockets were raining down on these metrosuxualls for anyplace, they would be all for stopping the attacks in any way possible. Some Turkish nutter goes berzerk at the sight of a Jew and they support it. Clear nonsense.
The governments of the European Union, Israel, Japan, Canada, and the United States classify Hamas as a terrorist organization.
And no, it was not "democratically elected" (LOL!). It took over by murdering lots of people. The son of the founder of Hamas was so disgusted by the actions of these people that he converted to Christianity and worked against Hamas.
Gaza has no legitimate government and thus has no "territorial waters." It would be like complaining that the U.S. violated Taliban sovereignty by invading Afghanistan. And on International waters you can do anything; control goes to the strong.
"The governments of the European Union, Israel, Japan, Canada, and the United States classify Hamas as a terrorist organization.
And no, it was not "democratically elected" (LOL!). It took over by murdering lots of people. The son of the founder of Hamas was so disgusted by the actions of these people that he converted to Christianity and worked against Hamas.
Gaza has no legitimate government and thus has no "territorial waters." It would be like complaining that the U.S. violated Taliban sovereignty by invading Afghanistan. And on International waters you can do anything; control goes to the strong."
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
And while we are on the subject of "territory" and NO disrespect to Palestinians (some of my best friends are Palestinian) the reality on the ground is that no one really wants the Palestinians on their territory. I have heard it described as "blacks finding shelter in the white south." Of course, this could also be propaganda - please feel free to interject, or, junk.
Well, let's see, when the Palestinians were first kicked out of Israel after the first war they settled in Syria. The Palestinians tried to foment a rebellion in Syria and the Butcher of Damascus slaughtered over ten thousand. The Jordanians refuse to allow any Palestinians to settle in their territory and the Egptians don't want them either. In fact no surrounding Arab country will allow the Palestinians to migrate form the West Bank or Gaza to resettle in those countries. So the Palestinians are forced to live in the ghettos of the West Bank and Gaza.
While we jerk endless tears for the Palestinians we rarely hear the tiniest violin played for the Kurds in Turkey, which of course the Turkish government suppress every chance it can get.
We wouldn't want the Kurds to start developing any ethnic nationalism for fear that we'd have to give up Turkish territory.
The history of the middle east is full of stories of one group or other oppressing some other group. Let's begin with Assyrians, the Persians, the Egytians, the Cartheginians, the Greeks, the Romans, the Byzantines, the Iraqis, the Iranians, the Israelies, have I left anyone out?
This will be going on long after you and I are gone.
Oh my god, are you fucking serious? Did you graduate with a masters in history at dipshit U?
The uprising in Hama was fomented by the Muslim Brotherhood.
The Palestinians don't want to settle in Jordan or Syria or Egypt, they want to settle in Palestine, where they fucking came from.
The remainder of your posting is just that: remainders. Drivel. Not worth the bandwidth it consumes on each page load.
I am Chumbawamba.
the Scots - just trying for some levity ;)
The thugs of Nashrullah murdered the opposition. The territory is still controlled by the criminal gangs. They simply pillage. There is a border with Egypt. Guess what? It is sealed tighter than the one with Israel. No one wants the mad dogs on their territory.
Just google 'Egypt opens border' for an important update
"Gaza has no legitimate government and thus has no "territorial waters." It would be like complaining that the U.S. violated Taliban sovereignty by invading Afghanistan. And on International waters you can do anything; control goes to the strong"
that solves every annoying legal problem doesn't it?
Yeah, this dude had dual citizenship; US and Turkish.
It is disengenuous to say that he is a US citizen without mentioning this.
These people wanted to provoke a response and they got one. You mess with the bull...
Should dual citizens of the US not receive the same Federal protection of other citizens? How about US ethnic minorities?
I'm saying it was disengenuous NOT to mention that he was a Turkish/American, that really wasn't American by culture, that's all; not that he didn't have rights or whatever you would like to construe.
I'm going to put it like this. He was a human. He was a human who thought he would try to do what he thought he was right. (I'm not saying I think it's right, but that's neither here or there.) When someone takes it upon themselves to attempt to provoke a violent institution, then one shouldn't be surprised when violence and death is the result.
This kid got on a boat to make a statement, the statement was made, and he paid for that statement with his life; a possibility I'm sure he was aware was in fact possible.
I don't see the issue here? It could be worse he could be a quadropalegic, a vegetable, or severely brain damaged; death is not the worst of all things.
If I wanted to make a statement by storming a Fed office with sirens and signs blazing, and when the cops tried to stop me I then decided to fight back and got shot/killed.... Well I succeeded in making a statement, and I damn well should have been aware that there was danger/risk to my person in doing so.
I'm not saying I agree with the Gaza situation, but hey it's the ME, it's messy and always will be, and right and wrong aren't so crystal fucking clear when everyone is existentially threatened.
The kid got what he wanted, he made his statement. Let him go up to Paradise in peace, or whatever it is Islam believes in. He can't be a martyr AND a victim, in this case, IMO.
Outrage meter still at 0.
There are Jews right now demonstrating for Israel right now who are clearly provoking American citizens. Perhaps sane rational American citizens should drop a few gasoline bombs on the nappy heads of these Jews.
Well, I'm sure glad I bothered to respond.... Did you even read what I wrote?
Whatever.
How come Turkey never let the US Army invade Iraq from the north? That cost a few lives.
+ 1 Great ally.
why should any country cooperate with our invasion?
Turkey was/is a NATO member. They didn't help when needed, now they want to cry about Israel attacking a NATO ally.
You don't need allies like that. They shouldn't belong in NATO.
"I'm saying it was disengenuous NOT to mention that he was a Turkish/American, that really wasn't American by culture, that's all; not that he didn't have rights or whatever you would like to construe.
I'm going to put it like this. He was a human. He was a human who thought he would try to do what he thought he was right. (I'm not saying I think it's right, but that's neither here or there.) When someone takes it upon themselves to attempt to provoke a violent institution, then one shouldn't be surprised when violence and death is the result.
This kid got on a boat to make a statement, the statement was made, and he paid for that statement with his life; a possibility I'm sure he was aware was in fact possible.
I don't see the issue here? It could be worse he could be a quadropalegic, a vegetable, or severely brain damaged; death is not the worst of all things.
If I wanted to make a statement by storming a Fed office with sirens and signs blazing, and when the cops tried to stop me I then decided to fight back and got shot/killed.... Well I succeeded in making a statement, and I damn well should have been aware that there was danger/risk to my person in doing so.
I'm not saying I agree with the Gaza situation, but hey it's the ME, it's messy and always will be, and right and wrong aren't so crystal fucking clear when everyone is existentially threatened.
The kid got what he wanted, he made his statement. Let him go up to Paradise in peace, or whatever it is Islam believes in. He can't be a martyr AND a victim, in this case, IMO.
Outrage meter still at 0."
Maybe a just a hair too much salt, but pretty damn close for my taste.
Bull shit. It's messy inasmuch as European/Western powers have always been meddling in the region due to its religious significance.
You try sticking your head inside a hornet's nest and see how long you can hold out with the claim that you have a right to be there. Sure you do, and the hornet's have a right to erupt into a tizzy.
I am Chumbawamba.
Ah the goold old trick of humanity as handled through US philosophy.
Yes, he was a human but ultimately, in the end, he was a Muslim.
Wonder if propagandists do not see their tricks run pretty old?
Not when they chose to act on the behalf of a foreign entity, nation, or agent. A U.S. citizen cannot conduct foreign policy contrary or without express permission of the State Department.
how is it relevant how many citizenships he had? he got attacked and killed totally illegally within international waters like too many others as well.
How do you know?
He saw it on TV like the rest of us.
I am Chumbawamba.
f
nations stop suspect ships in international waters all the time. It is not illegal. Otherwise how would any nations intercept somali Pirates? Your understanding is simply incorrect.
Um, Somalia is a failed state.
You guys pitching the Israeli kool-aid sure are misinformed. You're as inept as the bungled boarding operation.
Are you the elite keyboard commandos of the IDF?
I am Chumbawamba.
The question is:
Who paid the Turkish Terrorists on the boats? They were armed, trained, and prepared. Though not very well.
http://confederateyankee.mu.nu/archives/302289.php
http://www.jpost.com/Israel/Article.aspx?id=177445
Speaking of DUAL CITIZEN, check out how many people in the US Gov are dual citizens of Israel and the USA. Some are VERY high up and close to Pussy President BHO... and the House and Senate and...
Once you find out the list of dual Israel/USA citizens in the USA gov it will become more clear who controls the USA and their infiltraition tactics.
Very good question... should they even be allowed to shape foreign policy? What if they were US/Iranian dual citizens... would that be OK? Why doesn't anyone ever ask? Oh right... that would be anti-semitic wouldn't it.
+1000 bingo
+100000
You mean those Chicago Iraqi Mob guys who back Obama in his early days?
That IS a good question.
+ 1
Glad to have you back on board DoChen!... :)
Yo, ZO!
Last I checked my first post had an impressive 19 junks. What happens at 20?
Do they disappear me? Sort of virtually killing me off without a trial?
Sorry no junk for you!
You've been executed by firing squad DoChen... too bad you're not a cat... we get nine lives!
I guess I just answered my above question!
Junked off the thread!
Does that mean I should self-censor now...?
Self censoring is what all the good sheeple do... it's your call... things can get bloody here sometimes... it's fightclub you know!
Just repost it. And if you don't I will.
me too.
We are in agreement then... I as well believe that all posts (unless incredibly offensive...) should be let to stand. That way we have a great record to refer to.
"We are in agreement then... I as well believe that all posts (unless incredibly offensive...) should be let to stand. That way we have a great record to refer to."
Wholeheartedly agree. Since this is really just "virtual" fight club, I consider the "words of others" to be like knives left on the ground. If I happen to find the knife you just tried to shank me with, I am probably going to pick it up and let you do the killing - unto yourself.
"No sympathy from me" or similar.
DCRB
Took 'em only an hour to junk me off. They also junked Palladin (the first poster). I have to admit that these Peace Flotilla threads have been awesomely acrimonius and rancorous. I think I now have a better understanding of the Fight Club thing.
And now the Original Poster got junked off too!
Virtual murder I tell you!
I'm next. Aaaaaaaaaaaah!
Deserves another +1000
+1
....and the day FEMA will get filled with Americans (genuine ones) nobody should sympathise with them. They were just "Americans".
+1
Don't be insutlitn BHO (pbuh). He's a true Muslim, full communist, and half Kenyan with a stolen Social Security number who possibly has no US Citizenship.
what if he had an another dual - say Irish and American - would that make a difference?
this whole event seems to be very exagerated by the media. Why is ZH covering this story so much?
Have you seen the last week's posts about this issue on ZH? More uses of 'flag as junk' and of the word 'fucktard' than ever before. It's contentious.
Yup, exactly. Lots of page views, lots of contextual ads.
Keeps the place running, so I can forgive a little flame baiting from Tyler and crew.
Yeah, it's almost as good as the battle between the goldbugs and the PM haters.
Next, we'll need a live feed directly into the coliseum where opposing sides are issued gladiatorial weapons and we can see the blood fly.
</My friend snarky>
Everytime you press the "Save" button you get to say "Release the Hounds"...
It is the national security policy of the United States to strike preemptively if deemed necessary for the protection of its citizens or its interests.
Exactly. We've officially sanctioned preemptive killing of American citizens who are part of terrorist orgs. Apparently this dude died as part of his jihad. Hope he likes his 72 virgin goats.
I'm sure they all knew he was a psuedo American citizen as they pumped round after round into his upper torso.
[Israeli Special Forces] :Mr. Obama, we have one of your rouge American citizens from New York aboard the floatilla bound for the Gaza strip. Should we commence operation "Assassinate Funky Smelling Americans"?
[Obama]: Sure, what the fuck do I care, I'm from Chicago anyway. (Shouting out at the ninth hole) Who's put is it anyway? Hey, after this round let's head back to the clubhouse for drinks.
It appears you've neglected to study logic.
Quite true, I'm an illogical ahole just like the rest of the human race.
For all we do is FOLLY.
A-holes of the world unite! Can I be lead A-hole?
Just askin' :)
I consider 'junks' as affirmative votes!
Some people I know think I already am a lead A-hole...
Oh, and sorry, no junks for you! LOL,
I'm up to 15 up there last I checked.
You stepped on a landmine big guy... we all do at times!
What's wrong with being junked?
Wear it with a badge of honor, pretty soon it will be to the point if you aren't getting junked, YOU REALLY DON'T EXIST.
No you can not be leader. This is King of the Aholes, if you want to be King then you need to push me off the Ahole hill, until then I'm King of the Aholes.
OK... YOU WIN! You are the biggest ASSHOLE! :)
(I think I saw Bugs Bunny doing something similar to Daffy Duck once... Elmer Fudd shot him as I recall! :)
I'm not the biggest ASSHOLE, I am King of the Aholes. Now push me off my hill.
Daffy wasn't the brightest bulb in the pack, that's for sure.
True, both the US and Israel have legitimized doing anything to anyone anywhere in the world for any reason whatever. This is international law as interpreted by raw power. Russia is not recognized as a member of this privileged club but that didn't stop it from executing a citizen legally residing in the UK, presumably for the protection of their national "interests." But applying the label "terrorist" to justify any brute force action is not making our world any safer.
Do you think it matters to the guy who was killed whether it was legal or illegal? To all others it is politics. We aren't talking justice here; if we were that flotilla would not have been there...
"This is international law as interpreted by raw power. "
Welcome to the jungle baby! I make a habit to add an LOL! to any invocation of "international" and "law" together in the string "international law", because it is hilarious. There is no such thing.
This is the way jungle is perceived by some.
It has nothing jungle save that.
John Phillip Walker Lindh was an american too.
To who ever flagged me, my point is that just because someone is an American does it mean America supports your view and your actions.
I have no idea who this person was or what he was doing. Should I round the wagons for this person?
The matter here is the limit of Federal protection for citizens and not Free Speech.
“Protecting the welfare of American citizens is a fundamental responsibility of our government and one that we take very seriously,” Clinton said.
No, she is wrong. It is the responsibility of the individual to protect their own welfare.
I am not familar with the laws regarding the limit of federal protection, but if you put yourself in the shit, for whatever cause, I don't think anyone or goverment has the obligation to protect you.
This person died for what he believed in. I honor his courage. Just don't start a war over it.
Federal government has no duty to protect citizens in Arizona and Texas? Should Clinton retract National Guard soldiers recently exposed in Arizona?
Sure, but give them back their national guard troops, from arizona, that are overseas.
Apparently in Israel it does...just saying
"John Phillip Walker Lindh was an american too."
NOW, THERE WAS A SMART KID!
So was the communist nutter, ex-Marine, and former defector to the USSR who shot JFK. Nothing sacred about the citizenship of a criminal. If the IDF's euquivalent of our Navy Seals shot this guy center mass and several times to the head it was because the IDF guy was under aggravated assault with a deadly weapon at close quarters. Adrenaline will do that, even to a trained soldier.
If he had used a route through Turkey to join the Taliban,
These retards would be defending him and offering up their nine year old sisters for marriage.
Oh Tyler don't you get it yet: It's okay because Israel did it.
Just repeat that over and over again until you catch on to the mainstream meme. Then we'll send them some more smart bombs to drop on Gazan elementary schools.
Personally, I wish the Israelis would tear down the walls and fences surrounding Israel so that the Palestinian suicide bombers could start up again.
That way the jews could start being the proper type victims again.
"It's okay because Israel did it."
"It's okay because Israel did it."
"It's okay because Israel did it."
"It's okay because Israel did it."
Sure, why not!
It's also ok because Germany did it!
It's also ok because Iran did it!
It's also ok because Hamas did it!
It's also ok because Fatah did it!
It's also ok because Syria did it!
It's also ok because Egypt did it!
It's also ok because the Romanovs did it!
It's also ok because the Americans did it!
It's also ok because the Spainards did it!
It's also ok because Hezbollah did it!
I hate you, you hate me, let's get our guns and shoot at each other until we pee.
Thanks for putting some JUNK in the TRUNK.
Elementary schools are the best locations for rocket launchers.
Jennin was a bunch of dead jackasses.
The Gaza Palistenians have avowed that they love death.
A few of the Hamas supporters got the reward they desired.
Were they able to marry a nine year old before they reached their end? Or were they still on goats?
Jesus Whoreslapping Fucking Christ.
Not again with the I-P stories. Just look at the Nazis who linked jewatch.com and holocaust denial sites couple of days ago.; I'm not sure if thats what you want on ZH.
I do believe one of TD's personalities is anti-Semitic. Thankfully, the rest are sane and quite useful, or at least interesting.
Right, because reporting on mass murder of unarmed civilians on the high seas is anti-Semitic.
They had no right to interdict a vessel in international waters. This is the law of the high seas. All they had to do was wait until they entered their territorial waters, then they could have simply claimed self defense. Instead, they are fighting an undeclared war against the PEOPLE in their own country.
This is as nasty as it gets folks.
The U.S. has been fighting undeclared wars for decades...
Notice all this happened on one ship - the other four didn't seem to have this issue. When one wishes to become a "martyr" and make the evening news it is rather hard to be sympathetic when they get their wish.
At least we are all seeing who the anti-Semites are with these posts. While the Palestinian statehood question\problem is serious, don’t even kid yourselves over what any other country in the world would do if they had repeated rockets fired into their territory by a neighbor. There simply wouldn’t be anyone\thing left to fire rockets. From my vantage point the Israeli state has been more than a little patient – far more than we would ever even consider being.
Yes, the US has been fighting illegally for decades, and the leadership should hang for it (murdering American soldiers is high treason, guys).
However, your assertion that these people wanted to become martyrs is ludicrous. They didn't have any guns or bombs, though they could have easily gotten them on the ship. They attacked the commandos with poles and chairs. That is incredible courage.
And don't you dare call them "patient". Why do you think they have been firing rockets? They have been bottled up to die in a damn ghetto! No food, water, electricity, or fuel is allowed in! You would think the Israelis would have some form of empathy. But they don't! They just want to kill, kill, kill anyone that isn't jewish and opposes the will of their mighty and infallible leaders. Disgusting.
Also, of note, Gaza is NOT a separate country, it is a part of Israel. The people there have been oppressed for decades, and live as second class citizens at best. It would be like the US cramming all of the Roman Catholics into Rhode Island, bombing the shit out of the infrastructure, coming in and bulldozing homes and buildings, and enforcing a blockade. Yes, white people being oppressed! How would you feel about that, hmm?
Are you serious? With a screed like that how can anyone take you seriously. Go read what you wrote.
You'll have to be a little more specific than that, babykiller.
This isn't as nasty as it gets. Look around the world.
"Right, because reporting on mass murder of unarmed civilians on the high seas is anti-Semitic.
They had no right to interdict a vessel in international waters. This is the law of the high seas. All they had to do was wait until they entered their territorial waters, then they could have simply claimed self defense. Instead, they are fighting an undeclared war against the PEOPLE in their own country.
This is as nasty as it gets folks."
Where the f&ck have you been, the party started posts ago! Already winding down and most of the chicks have left.
You also called me an anti-Semite 2 days ago under one of the I-P articles. I think you do not understand the definition of antisemitism. I am an orthodox opponent of current Israeli government, but that is not antisemitism. Netanyahu, Livni and Ashkenazi should be shot, disemboweled and dragged trough the streets of Gaza; thats a given; but do not equate that with antisemitism. None of the "Tylers" is anti-Semitic; just reporting facts.
I believe I was commenting that the photo you posted was photoshopped. I just now looked back on that posting and cannot find any reference to you being antisemitic. If you took that to be a statement that you are antisemitic, that's on you, not me.
And I disagree; at least one of the Tylers is rabidly antisemitic. My opinion, true, not fact, but my opinion based on the types of postings he/she has done. We're an investment site; not a political one. That particular Tyler hijacks it for these anti-Israeli postings. I say that as one reared Irish-Catholic, not as someone who's Jewish and overly sensitive to the topic.
Look, I am not here to defend anyone. But....
Show me one, just one article published on ZH in which the topic is discussing Judaism or Jews in a negative manner. I ask for just one such article. If you cant find it [hint; you can not since there never was such an article published] your accusations are baseless and without merit. If I speak against Israel that does not imply anti-semitism, same as if i speak in favor of lower tariffs on wool imports in Southwest Nigeria does not make me a member of al-Qaeda and an Islamophile.
Sorry, but the accusation is not baseless. And, once again, I never called you antisemitic and I certainly never entertained the idea you were an Islamophile.
The point of this topic by this particular TD was to bash Israel. Simple as that. What else would it be since it has nothing to do with investing. There are tens of thousands of web sites he/she can post such topics on. If he/she post them here, we members can call bullshit. The fact these topics draw probably ten times the typical comments and to-the-tenth-power heat/controversy are an indication I'm correct.
As for me, this will be the last anti-Israeli topic I'll read. I came here for the investment perspective, not politics. All this strife is a colossal waste of our precious time.
One anti-Israel smear that YOU posted was the photoshopped image of a rocket headed towards a big group of unarmed young brown men, one of them looking skyward as if he could see it coming. This in the context of flame wars over the IDF boarders' very bad adventures the other day the "peace" "activists" "aid" boat.
Just fucking go shoot yourself you piece of shit, or better yet; since you display such strong emotions about Israel I suggest you go and fill an application to join the IDF; they have no criteria who can and who can not enter their service. You see all kinds of filth in the IDF. Oh sorry, whats that; you are a goy; oh fuck it sorry; I thought you understood "lower species need not to apply". Cheerio motherfucker and dont bother responding to me again.
Oh, and FYI; the photo was lifted from Getty. So no, its not photoshopped. Your goyim brain is once again turning tricks on you.
Please explain how it is antisemitic to highlight a story that first appeared on Michael Bloomberg's media?
Tyler, you are a Jew hater, and Zionist pig; at the same time!
Just kidding. I actually like the hot topics, as vitriolic as they can become. People will never understand one another if never given a forum to speak, or yell as the case may be, at and to one another. Post away my friend.
"Can someone please tell me where I am?" Said the man with the leather briefcase. "I was looking for the Daisy Chain expo."
<PUNCH>
"Ah fuck! Why the hell did you hit me?"
"Did you read the sign on the door?"
"What sign?"
"The sign on the door."
"There is no sign on the door."
"Who forgot to put the sign up?" Tyler says as he looks around the room. "I'm just kidding. There is no sign. Welcome to Fight Club."
Excellent, just excellent!
When you don't include all the facts, you're letting your bias show. At least be a man and admit your feelings and thoughts on the subject. Don't hide behind Bloomberg's ethnic background.
@'Paladin' - I am very interested in your highly-asymmetric morality.
Do you think that the soi-disant leaders of Gaza should be killed without trial or due process by their military occupiers?
If so, is that the same as your view of the treatment (by German military occupiers) of the leaders of the Warsaw Ghetto Uprising in 1943/44?
If you think all terrrrrists whould be killed without due process, who gets to decide? Only the US? What if Russia decides that Avgidor Lieberman is a terrrrrrist? Or if China decides that McChrystal is a terrrrrrist? (Had to struggle to find a non-dual citizen in the terrorist hierarchy of the US).
If you permit recourse to naked power, then you have to be prepared to have people plant bombs in your streets and/or sneak up to your house in the night and slit the throats of everyone therein: the two things go together, since anyone with an IQ above room temperature understands that serried ranks and frontal assault is not how you run asymmetric warfare (also known as 4th Generation).
Paladins were generally more honorable than your behaviour illustrates: bloodthirsty, yes, but broadly informed by notions of chivalry.
Might I suggest "hasbarat en passant" or "sayan en passant" as an alternative? There are still people who think that the title of Paladin is one that's earned.
Cheerio
GT
good stuff
Tyler, you are absolutely correct, and please keep posting items like this. I was stunned to see that Chris Martenson had decided to close down posters who did not fit into his territory of ideas, but hey, it's his blog. Economics, money, and politics have always been unhealthily (as well as occasionally healthily) entwined. I know that we have a few zanies on ZeroHedge, but let's keep the dialogue going. There are bloody few other places that allow it these days.
Today a Catholic bishop was murdered in Turkey. He was just the latest in a series of murders of Christians in Turkey that have occurred in the last few years (on top of the murders and intimidation of Coptic Christians in Egypt recently). Didn't even make the evening news. Tyler Durden, you going to cover that? I guess it wasn't financially relevant.
Muslim head choppers are no longer news.
No outrage against marrying nine year old girls to their eighty year old uncles.
No outrage against one Muslim sect bombing the mosque of another sect.
Stopping ships to inspect cargo for arms? That is when all hell breaks loose. The sight of a Jew causes one of the Hamas supporters to go berzerk and the individual is killed? Same thing would happen to a berzerk drug dealer in Chicago.
Apples and Oranges, Tyler Durden. Fess up to the artful way to get hits. Its amazing how you've managed to somewhat herd cats.