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US Citizens Starting To Rebel Against Wall Street
The Wall Street - Main Street confrontation has been inevitable ever since the banksters decided to do anything and everything to perpetuate the game of Heads We Win, Tails You Lose, this time openly at the middle class' dime. It appears it has now emerged fully into the open.
While this video may or may not become viral, more people are ready to take action into their own hands, fully aware of the complictness of the Wall Street - D.C. - Regulatory complex, while cognizant of the downside.
With bonus season rapidly approaching for Wall Street, and by all counts this one may yet be the biggest in history, Wall Street will face unprecedented scrutiny for each and every dollar it pockets. And if the AIG fiasco was any indication, a rapid downturn in the markets is all it will take for populist anger to really morph into something more cohesive than merely people making YouTube videos or breaking Made in China products with their baseball bats.
h/t Karl Denninger
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walstreetpro2 would be a better messenger than some wobbly voiced unemployed redhead who thinks Ken Lay lent her the money and then jacked the rates.
almost anyone would be better. She is too easily laughed at and dismissed.
She is America, not Amerika, maintaining her dignity.
You go girl!
This is frightening.
This is not a sophisticated, "slick" woman—she's not the kind of corporate career girl readers of ZH see all the time down in lower Manhattan, neatly coiffed and perfectly made up. This is an average American working woman whose aspirations are modest to say the least. As she herself states, all she aims for is a middle-class lifestyle for herself and her children and grandchildren.
If an average American woman can make a video like this, expressing the apolitical contempt for the banksters, the Fed and the Federal Government that she does, then America itself is in deep, deep trouble. She is, in fact, stating that the basic social compact in America is now over.
If enough average middle and lower-middle class Americans begin thinking the same—and doing the same—then it will be a collapse of America a lot sooner than anyone would ever believe.
This is indeed frightening.
True.
And the other thing that's amazing here is that people are beginning to wake up to the flimsy threat of "credit ratings".
Don't pay back a mafia debt, and they'll break your legs.
Don't pay back a bank debt and what? They'll change a byte of data on a computer somewhere? LOL?
The financial industry is the most incredibly exposed industry in the world, and all it takes is mass recognition of their paper-tiger credit rating threats.
Many here are criticizing her for her presentation, or her accuracy, and they're completely missing the point. The point is that she is faced with a choice: Live like a slave, or tell the would-be masters to fuck off. And hilarious part about that decision is the consequences for her "rebellion" are so incredibly insignificant.
The industry should be trembling.
Trembling? Indeed. Instead they are issuing more paper garbage to continue the party.
Look at you Zion! 7% return on 1 year bonds! Nice.
http://i31.tinypic.com/2cdtp9t.jpg
They are not criticizing her for her presentation. They are scared. There are more than a few people here in finance, and they see in this woman the same thing that made Iraqis go to the market even when they were being blown up every day.
A point comes when you stop running and would rather fight.
This is not frightening, it is fantastic. The only way to get this country back at this point is a collapse. America is nothing more than a global epicenter now for all that is wrong with human nature; corruption, lobbying, etc. That is not what made America great.
No sir, the America you grew to love is GONE and the only way to get it back is to have a complete collapse.
Tear the social compact to shreds: how about a one-month 'debt strike' against your revolving credit? Not mortgages, car payments or other 'important' stuff (with real repercussions like Repos) but revolving debt, unimportant bullshit like a BestBuy or BofA card. If for but one month a large number of people just said NO, the PTB would freak. I say, go all 'French' on them and hold their money hostage.
What could they do if nearly everyone did it? If everyone's credit took a hit, would an individual hit matter from a relative perspective?
Okay Anonymous poster, so the social contract is just fine and dandy when the scum in Congress forces sub-prime lending through the system and causes the entire world economy to collapse, and bails out American companies to the tune of $24 trillion taxpayer liabilities and everybody gets happily re-elected as a reward and Massive Earth Shattering Bonuses all around for Wall street (rather 'bank holding company' street).
But one American does not want to pay off a 30% APR loan based on a good credit history, and IT'S ON BABY!
The thugs in the White House and Congress took a nasty shit all over the social contract a long time ago and left us as the bagholders.
Well said!!
Without government, Wall Street can survive only by pleasing its fellow man.
Only government has the power to rob citizens of the fruits of their labour and give them to some one else.
As long as government creates rents, companies will seek them. Why is everyone surprised?
But, unfortunately, this is exactly what we need, IMO. I usually say that it's time to 'stop playing the game'. No one in this country should ever pay 20% or 30% interest rates for anything! It's ridiculous and it's stupid. What are the banks attempting to do? Point out the stupid people for us? IMO, we need serious deflation to flush out all the greed and corruption in the system. This type of activity, on a large scale, just might do the trick. Did you see how consumer credit plunged last month? People don't WANT to borrow any more money to buy more junk from China. People are sick of consumerism. It's over, get used to it. And I say that's a good thing. We need to crash and start over. It's the only way.
Gregory Phillips
www.warlords2010.blogspot.com (<-- much more there)
If you you are just waking up to the fear, where have you been?
Perhaps not the collapse of America, but the collapse of a corporatized financial America controlled by leeches. Maybe it is just the re-birth of the America we once knew.
The common man & woman has been lulled to sleep over the past few decades, but maybe, just maybe, we are waking up to what has happened.
She is absolutely correct in her thought process - just like upside down homeowners figuring out how to be just delinquent enough to stay in their homes, or demand the original paperwork be produced before any foreclosure takes place. Gum up the system. That same system being used for control and repression can be turned over...especially in this new Internet age.
If you you are just waking up to the fear, where have you been?
Perhaps not the collapse of America, but the collapse of a corporatized financial America controlled by leeches. Maybe it is just the re-birth of the America we once knew.
The common man & woman has been lulled to sleep over the past few decades, but maybe, just maybe, we are waking up to what has happened.
She is absolutely correct in her thought process - just like upside down homeowners figuring out how to be just delinquent enough to stay in their homes, or demand the original paperwork be produced before any foreclosure takes place. Gum up the system. That same system being used for control and repression can be turned over...especially in this new Internet age.
I disagree, I think is highly encouraging.
Frightening? ...or inspiring?
1. I'm not sure this is that frightening in light of the nice Goldman piece out today showing that the correlation between unemployment rate and change in deliquencies is basically zero. Only an INCREASE in the unemployment rate is likely to do much to credit quality at this point, and though we might hang up at 10-12% for a long time, it takes a lot of imagination to see things getting worse than that at this point.
2. (not directly responding to you) This woman was irresponsible. Bank of America was irresponsible. How can anyone really feel good about cheering for either of them. Kind of sad that we have a regulatory regime that enables banks and consumers to both go around acting this way.
Right, because if you don't fit the media manicured image we've become accustomed to, you might as well keep your mouth shut...someone might laugh at you...
Try to have a little respect. If you want to laugh watch wspro.
Try to have a little respect. If you want to laugh watch wspro.
i watched this vid earlier on karl's site. I hear what you are saying about the mistake on ken lay and your thought that she is too easily laughed at....however.....the middle and lower classes that can relate to her message and who may start proactively defaulting on credit cards are not zh readers and will view her message much differently than the typical zh reader.
I mentioned to my wife several months ago that there would be people who would try to start this type of movement. it will be interesting to see if it happens.
I see no alternative for the people. The question is whether the movement begins sooner out of anger and the people's wish to excercise a choice while they still have one, or later out of sheer necessity.
Watch what happens after millions of people see Michael Moore's film.
That will be the mainstream catalyst for what will come.
Unfortunately, I, too, fear the ignorant (albeit not necessarily incorrect) masses will rally around that fat fuck Moore's film, which while making him even more $, may be the catalyst that starts the unstoppable pebble rolling down the hill. Of course, you know he can't possibly grasp the possible consequences of such a situation, but I think that's part of the point.
What kills me though is that those of us who are current on any debt we still have, especially those who have avoided the temptation to say "fuck it" and out of honor and integrity stuck with their legal obligations are the ones who are really going to get fucked. I'd love to tell my student loan company to go to hell, but I just can't/won't do it, although others already have.
No, dood, when we begin to follow the correct examples of the Europeans (burning down the vacation home of that Novartis exec in Austria, and the mansion of that other drug company exec in Europe) and the Chinese (twelve instances over the past two years where the workers pulled evil execs out into the street and beat them to death) - then you'll find out who really and truly gets royally screwed - as they deserve to be.
"honor and integrity"
Just how much "honor and integrity" did the banks show while openly looting and pillaging the taxpayer? ZERO. NONE. They want you to stick with your legal obligations while they do whatever they please. Sorry, but I ain't buying that. You are paying interest on money created out of thin air. It's not like they are loaning you somebody else's money. I used to think just like you when I didn't know how our banking system really worked. Now I do. It's nothing but a giant Ponzi scheme which why now it's collapsing. Stop paying - now.
I consider it a deep, deep OTM call (er, LEAP) on the global economic system. Sure, I could stop paying and tell them good luck collecting a dime from me, but what happens if even after some serious pain we get back to some sort of "normal?" My credit score approaches zero, I can't rent or buy a home or apartment, I can't get a job @ Goldman (they run credit checks), etc, etc.
I would consider the MOST dangerous thing that can happen is if we "return to some sort of normal".
Anything after that would be just a little annoyance.
What ya gonna do if your credit rating is fine and the system is "fine" and continue to leech you again until you are old fart that cries daily considering its last dimes to buy pills to stay alive?
I admire the girl and i think she just put another nail on the WS coffin!
The banks don't have the power to loot and pillage. Only the government has that power.
If and when you, and the others rightly expressing a spirit of revolt (finally!) against the ripoff credit manipulators, are actually ready to take committed action I (a debt-free taxpayer) will support you all the way in an absolute repayment strike. Tell them to fuck off, and don't pay another penny of interest or principal. Be prepared for repossesion and/or bankruptcy, and swear on your children's lives that you will NEVER AGAIN BORROW. Start living without the goodies and save for the things you can't buy out of cash flow. Oh, is that too tough for you? It's call Freedom, and if you don't respect yourself enough to do the work and get if for yourself, shut up about what everybody else should do.
Well said. Personally I have NO DEBT, and lots of 'cash' assets. Complete freedom is a great feeling. If I wanted to, tomorrow I could tell my employer "Shove it", walk out the door, and live comfortably for 5 years.
My current weakness is figuring out how to maintain the value of my 'cash' assets. Greenbacks are a huge exposure when Uncle Ben and Co are printing them by the billions with several key strokes. I've got silver as well, but it's tough to buy more at $16/oz. I feel like I'm buying high?
I currently hope the next downturn results in yet another flight to 'safety': Treasuries and Greenbacks. And the deflation will allow me to use my 'cash' and buy assets cheap.
Any other suggestions??
Buy Gold.
foreign currency accounts?
ooops, sorry not in the land of the free
mwahaha
buy guns
DH - It already has started. The creditors I believe are calling this radical default. A process where debtors are no longer concerned with credit scores, law suits, repossession, phone calls, letters are any other threat. More and more folks are just saying fuck it every day and soon enough we will see credit contracting by more than 40 billion a month and card defaults more than 15%. Especially when the option ARM and ALT A markets start imploding in earnest. The furniture space is already feeling it as the rent it space follows the Dollar General sector up, up and away in profitability.
As Lizzy reminded us a couple of weeks ago; "Freedom is just another word for nothing left to lose".
The avalanche is starting to gain momentum. And video's like this one, from a regular citizen, no longer so self conscious about the lack of a manicure and a full blown media scripting is a key indicator, not a drawback.
I think personal videos like this one may change one important thing.
Up to now, defaulting still carried a sort of social stigma with it for the average Joe. It may be the main reason (excluding fear of their kids losing a home) why seriously underwater houseowners / credit card debtors paying extortionate interest still kept trying to play along with the banks. As soon as you can openly say "I went bankrupt, fuck em banksters!" in the public and get patted on the back by your neigbours/friends/random people instead of being looked down upon, the final avalanche will come and wipe away this corrupt system. Once the teachers, cops and other respected yet underpaid and vulnerable classes start doing it and openly admitting so, it will rapidly become fair game. Grassroots / viral sabotage using your personal right to default is one thing that can stop this usury for good.
Go out and spread the word. Want your own personal bailout? Call the mortgage/credit card guy and tell him "I want to default!". No modification, no negotiation, no credit score concerns (the whole country will have no credit score soon), no more bullshit. Max out the credit you got left, withdraw your 401k and any other savings, sell anything of value you do not need and stuff the cash in your matress. Then call the guy, ignore whatever he says and tell him to shove it.
Hard to lend money when the whole society has a FICO of 500. This action is working its way up the food chain as economic circumstances push their way up. I rather suspect there are a great many folks attempting to live large on a 100K-250K salary that are 1 check away from breaking their lease on that Benz or Porsche and defaulting on their pay option mortgage. Prime my ass. It is clearly breaking above the 50K line and this winter will be a long one for the banks and the fed.
"Hard to lend money when the whole society has a FICO of 500."
FICO score is bankster invention. Fuck the FICO score. Do you ask your friend his FICO score when you lend him money? We'll be moving towards more of community lending where people lend money to each other based on trust, friendship etc., rather than oligarchs in Wall Street squeezing debt slaves based on FICO scores.
+1 GG
Been doin' it for almost 10 years now. Works great. Wish more of the population did it.
Thanks Gordon! FICO and the rest of these corrupt "credit scoring" organizations were invented by lenders so that they could circumvent discriminatory and predatory lending laws.
Just like that super hard exam that the professor had to "curve" so half the students would pass, FICO and the other garbage scores will be "revamped" once lending falls below the banksters expectations.
A six month moritorium on paying any bills other than local lenders and utility bills would send a message if people had the guts to stand together.
Ok, and the creditors take back one of the few stores of value, the land... Either directly through mortgage or later to foreclose a judgment lien... sorry, but begging to become serfs isn't exactly the cure.
What happens to all the land? Does china come over and buy it when we pay them for our fannie and freddie agencies? Will the government give another land grab and we go stake our lots?
At this point, filing for bankruptcy only means you will be ensured never to get financing again. Not that banks are desperate to loan money that is sure to be defaulted upon (clearly, it's why the stimulus isn't working), but mass bankruptcies will put a face to the underlying (and up til now invisible due to free credit) class structure. Credit scores are quickly becoming a pre-requisite to a job...
I honestly don't think the poor hudled masses (myself probably included) will do anything other than capitulate and keep their hands out... we'll have defacto indentured servitude... and those that have stolen the most on the way down, will be the most handsomely rewarded when we hit bottom...
My biggest fear isn't that we're a socialist country (mixed capitalism has kicked the bucket at this point), but that we whittle all governmental programs to a skeleton crew, if any are left, and we're left with the absolute atrocities that will be committed by those with wealth. You might be saying to yourself, isn't this already what we have? And you're probably right to a very large extent... but it isn't as bad as it could be should everything fall by the wayside and you have to buy a shovel and work clothes from Robert E. Lee Wilson's general store, and they cost more than you can make before the shovel and clothes deteriorate. This is where we're headed.
Willful compliance through fear? You can keep it. Like GG said, there are far better options out there once you get past you fear of flying
No, I'm advocating we grow a pair and stop consuming... I'm 28 and not registered to vote... why? Because I don't have enough money to vote... The closest thing I have to voting is an NRA membership (which probably counts a lot more towards congressional/presidential voting than actually voting)
At any rate, I'm advocating that we vote with our personal dollars... rather than willfully accepting the chains of credit, maybe we need to reduce our lifestyle... at this point, I don't see that the middle class was destined to be impoverished, but rather jumped headfirst into incredibly high levels of debt...
In other words, our level of savings is directly proportionate to our degree of freedom... once we refuse to purchase on credit and/or incredibly high interest rates, most things fall in place. (obviously it's going to be tough to get rid of GS)
The other issue is this... anyone who solely defaults and declares bankruptcy is simply a pussy. If joe sixpack really wanted to put his money (or lack thereof) where his mouth is, he'd stop paying any taxes... (presuming he can get a job post bankruptcy)... stop fueling the source. But I'm not going to blame him for using the tools most easily at his disposal either...
I suppose it's better than nothing... green shoots for the new normal.
"If joe sixpack really wanted to put his money (or lack thereof) where his mouth is, he'd stop paying any taxes... (presuming he can get a job post bankruptcy)... stop fueling the source."
That comes in chapter 2.
You are assuming the creditors will have any money left to buy up the land. The chain reaction started by large % of people defaulting will put them right into the ground. As their paper profits turn into paper losses, THEY will end up being the indebted ones on a comparative scale. Sure, the individuals behind these companies own a lot themselves, but once they no longer have a virtual entity to defer their liabilities to, their personal net worth will end up being taxed and confiscated by the authorities 1933 style.
hahahahahahahahaha!!
Whew. "filing for bankruptcy only means you will be ensured never to get financing again."
That's a good one.
100% FALSE. I used to work up these cases for a BK clinic. A person can get credit again in 2 years, usually sooner.
Absolutely, I filed BK many years ago. Everybody said "but you won't have any credit!" little did they know post-BK consumers are CC companies favorites, because they can't declare again for another 10 years.
So these companies have a dozen good reasons to provide you credit on the worst possible terms, and 10 years to squeeze every last dime out of you for any cause, knowing that there is not a damn thing you can do about it.
I got more CC offers after filing BK than before.
It's sickeningly predatory. I was freaking astounded.
Interesting eh.
Wall Street doesn't seem to have any social stigma attached to default and bailouts yet they're good at making everyone else feeling like a schmuck for defaulting.
I hope she really starts something.
Yep.
Once folks get to the point where they have bigger fears than some stigma perpetrated by the same folks that press the window dressing at all costs mantra we might actually get somewhere. To establish power to a bargaining position one must first demonstrate that power exists. The power to destroy a thing is control of a thing. The banks and their institutions have forgotten that there are two sides to the debt coin.
She already has in my home--closed all accounts with BAC 6 months ago--using local credit union--never look back.
I like the revolution.
You have the sequence all wrong. You close the 401k and all other sources of savings and place it where the sun don't shine. Then you tell The Man the same thing.
The only problem is, you will still be paying taxes on that house, because no way in hell is the mortgage banker going to eat the loss. You might as well live there if they refuse the keys.
You do know if you do this, those losses will eventally be absorbed by the rest of us.
You don't think you have a choice on whether to absorb the losses or not?
Sure, I have a choice. I can move to New Zealand.
I can go over there and absorb THEIR losses. :)
"You might as well live there if they refuse the keys."
Exactly. No way should you walk away. Just default and stay in place.
But first, demand they produce the original docs. Huge numbers of loans have been re-packaged and the docs can't be found easily or quickly - maybe never. UBS has already discovered this the hard way.
I think you are on track, but I don't think many people are even bothering to call the mortgage guy. From what I have seen (first hand) is people are just stopping paying their mortgage. They know that at today's pace, it will take years for anyone to get them out of their house.
On an average 30 year fixed rate mortgage at 200K and 6% interest rate, the monthly payment is 1200 a month. Add in taxes and insurance, and you get up to 1300 a month easily. that is a huge savings for the average American.
THIS is the average American's bailout - living rent free for two years. Many more people are taking that option. After all, what is the big deal about defaulting on a nameless, faceless, greedy banker? No big deal at all.
1200/mo, 1300 with taxes, get real ! I live in upstate
NY and my combined school and prop tax are $1500/month
(yes that's per month) and no, I don't own a million
dollar home. Even if you own your house, your ass belongs
to the gov.
At this VERY moment, the US Congress, which can't ever be bothered with REAL health care reform, is creating legislation to make walking away from one's mortgage illegal.
When it passes, then watch the lead begin to fly...... and the guillotines begin to be set up outside the halls of congress, awaiting their just desserts.
Sarge, I like it!!!
Although the guillotine is a rather elegant and dramatic method of execution, I still prefer head torn off and hoisted on a long pole.
The US Congress is a shit stain that needs to be bleached out.
Source and bill number please.
"ruthless" default, or rational default
http://www.zerohedge.com/article/debt-repudiation-–-table
If I had debt, I'd default on it.
Anyhow, I give this girl and others FULL SUPPORT. I don't care if she mixes up "Kens", she is doing something about the fraud, robbery, lies, and manipulation that is costing US ALL trillions!!
Go girl....
I totally agree.
I too have no debt, but have been throwing around the idea of tapping all my credit to buy gold bullion offshore and then tell my creditors I'll settle for $0.25 on the dollar and/or just move out of the country and say FU come get me greedy bankers!
Just basic common business sense, my friend. Best wishes.
That's the point. People not as knowledgable are now really pissed, not just those of us who have been paying attention. The tipping point.
Let the 'Dealbreaker' fucks laugh at the 'poors' who stumble or get some fact wrong while trying to describe the ways we've been fucked. It doesn't matter. We know we've been fucked even if we get some fact wrong. Those laughing at those crying will the easiest to spot and be the first to go.
Well said, MikeNYC.
"MARK IT ZERO, DUDE"
Again I totally agree. I think her video is all the more powerful because she mixes Lay & Lewis up. Jane & John Doe are finally starting to figure it out. This thing is going to explode and Wall St continues its march higher.
Exactly, there are so many crooks, busy people trying to keep their heads above water can't keep track of them all.
I agree, I was with her all the way until the 'Ken Lay'comment (god rest his thieving assed soul) but...
Ken Lewis may prove to be a BIGGER and BETTER thief than Ken Lay ever dreamed of.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=it9kpZHXhxI
Oh my, hope you intended that link towards Ken Lay Lewis.
A few wrong facts didn't hurt Sarah Palin...
No. She's absolutely perfect.
She doesn't need to have her facts straight. She doesn't need to sound sophisticated.
She needs to tell the financial industry to fuck off. And she did that just fine.
Moron, try listening to the message. So what if she isn't a professional or CNBC grade speaker? It's unimportant that she mistook Lay for Lewis. These are trivial points that only a tiny brain would latch on to. You completely missed the point.
Why is she easily laughed at? She is you. She is me. Laughing at her is only laughing at yourself. While that may be therapeutic at times, this isn't one of those times.
If Biden can get away with saying that President FDR went on television in 1929 to calm the people, I'll let her get by with saying Ken Lay instead of Ken Lewis.
I say this woman is playing the crowd with a bit of Machiavellian slight-of-hand with the "Ken Lay" reference.
@ Sardonicus,
...what the hell, that was one arrogant post guy. When the salt of the earth becomes enraged with righteous indignation, you better look out guy.
Sardonicus:
Some posters who I enjoy are being nice to you, trying to gently set you straight. I suppose that is what I should do too. Staying level is a better way to communicate, certainly more convincing. It also helps with credibility.
Watch me blow all that shit sky high!
Fuck you Sardinicus. Hard. Split open and reamed, baby. No lube. Maybe I'll throw in some sand. No, make that broken glass. May your hemorrhoids bleed.
And to all of you posters who think you are different from this woman, better than her, smarter than her, a class or two above her, or somehow separate from her: You unaware, non reflexive, unempathic, mean assholes are the problem. This kind of shit posting shows you for the sad confused creature that you are, fuck, we are.
You are living under the illusion that you are different from the bankers, too. Cut the shit, you aspire to be them. Baby banksters with their little silver spoons, sucking at the tit of the world (it ain't the US gov, she ran out of milk loooong ago). You let them get away with it this long because you hoped, maybe, one day, you could be there to abuse the system and make your killing also.
I am pretty sure I will regret this post, but I am so fucking angry right now, I don't care. Self serving, spoiled rotten, dipshits.
As long as we are divided like this, "She is sooo middle class, uhhhhnnnnh! I am so edumacted, unhhhhhhh," WE HAVE NO HOPE OF GETTING OUT OF THIS THING. Does it feel good to feel superior? Is it worth what it is costing you?
They use class, income, race, gender, age, sexual orientation, occupation, anything they can get us to swallow, to keep us separated.
Maybe this part of my post will be credible-- please wake up. I'm stupid and unaware of plenty, I know that. Putting this woman down this way is wrong. She is your mother, sister, aunt, cousin, friend, teacher, coach, or dare I say it, wife.
You are too easily laughed at and dismissed.
And you are an anonymous coward who would be shitting his pants to say that if he had an actual, consistent identity that had to be accountable for that comment.
Have a question for you. Why did you bother with me? You laughed at me and dismissed me, right?
Imbecile.
I share her anger, but all she's doing is shooting herself in the foot.
You know, when you have banksters putting bullets in your head, shooting yourself in the foot seems like a tame thing to do.
This is how the revolution will be fought.
True-- but I think what we see here is someone highly representative of the populous.
The Average Joe-- or Jane-- in this case, do not fully understand the complex issues facing this financial mess. What they do understand, however, is that they are the ones on the short end of the stick.
This lady may not be able to adequately articulate the points she is trying to make-- but you cannot mistake the anger. I think that expression-- and the direction of that expression-- is probably more important than the message she is trying to convey.
Bingo
There are many CFAs and MBAs that still don't understand the complex issues of this financial mess.
I was going to add congressmen and senators to the list above, but they are not smart as a lot.
The "Average Joe-- or Jane--" is fully capable of comprehending that those who claim "this just happened" are also the banksters who have walked away with millions, billions (and in several cases), trillions. Funny how that usually works out that way.
And I've found very few people on Wall Street, and certainly not at the Fed, have any comprehension as to the debt leveraging by the gamblers which caused the Great Depression (and was cured by FDR), is now at work and greater than ever, being aided and abetted by the Bush and Obama Administrations. (CDOs, CBOs, CFOs, CLOs, CROs, BISTRO SIVs, SPVs, SPEs, CPDOs, ILWs, ILSs, and on and on and on --- any questions?).
More like cutting off a gangrenous toe. Then again... maybe you're right. Poor thing is setting herself up for a future devoid of revolving debt, mortgage payments, etc. The banksters have institutionalized the idea that life is not worth living w/o credit/debt.
It's not the voice, it's the message that counts.
People are really starting to get pissed. The only reason the pitchforks aren't being sharpened yet is because the average Joe still has some money left in his/her 401(k) or pension.
One more leg lower and the people who still have something left to loose will have nothing left to loose.
This is the real reason behind the market manipulation by the front men for the Fed and US Gvt. All the pieces for martial law aren't yet in place so the balloon needs more air.
Desperate men will do desperate things, on both sides of the ball.
That and the whole Hope and Change being "Let Them Eat Hope" is beginning to sink in.
Bankruptcy is up by about 30% in 2008, BTW.
Get ready for debtors prison... The new bubble industry !
"The only reason the pitchforks aren't being sharpened yet is because the average Joe..." IS BUYING GUNS!!!
http://www.ammoland.com/2009/09/04/1000000-guns-added-to-american-homes/
Follow that logic:
- Average Joe uses credit to buy (lots of) guns
- Joe purposely defaults on said credit
- Joe's friends, family and neighbors (who also have guns) follow suit
- Wall St/Gubmint complex doesn't like Joe and friends purposely defaulting
- Now what?
Damn, things could get real ugly...
Bwaaahahahaha! I love it. It's not the messenger that matters, it's the message. Where'd I see that personal security costs for the head financial douchebags were skyrocketing? I hope those motherfuckers burn to the ground. At least that way we can finally start to rebuild
Go to now, ye rich men, weep and howl for your miseries that shall come upon you. Your riches are corrupted, and your garments are motheaten. Your gold and silver is cankered; and the rust of them shall be a witness against you, and shall eat your flesh as it were fire. Ye have heaped treasure together for the last days. Behold, the hire of the labourers who have reaped down your fields, which is of you kept back by fraud, crieth: and the cries of them which have reaped are entered into the ears of the Lord of sabaoth. Ye have lived in pleasure on the earth, and been wanton; ye have nourished your hearts, as in a day of slaughter. Ye have condemned and killed the just; and he doth not resist you. - James 5
Yeah, she can do that because she has nothing. The rest of us can't get a lien put on our houses, so this "revolt" will not go far, unfortunatley.
Almost all debt in America is non recourse, today at least. You can get sued and lose but what does it really matter if the firm that has the lien goes out of business because more folks have balls than don't?
Even on recourse loans, it is very rare for the bank to go after the borrower. Banks realize that if a borrower wants to make it tough to find assets, they can. It isn't worth it to spend $20K on legal fees to recover $15K in assets.
Exactly; too expensive & time consuming, especially considering that most folks would simply file bankruptcy & further screw their creditors.
A lien behind a home underwater with a Pay-Option first and a HELOC doesn't mean merde.
If most "homeowners" have no equity, of what concern are liens?
"She is too easily laughed at and dismissed."
Were you talking about yourself.
Not everyone in America is a financial guru. Most are hardworking, now unemployed, folk that are FUCKING PISSED OFF.
enjoy the pitchforks.
"jump you fuckers"
"jump you fuckers"
Before you get burned out.
If you hold a checking or savings account in any of the big beneficiaries of TARP, withdraw those accounts now! Make the deposit in a small community bank and have a clear conscience that you are not helping the big banks manipulating our tax dollars continue the pillage of the American dream.
I would love to do so, but am unable to find a financially strong bank or credit union, where I am eligible to hold an account, in my area of the country (Detroit Metro). It wouldn't surprise me if this was the case for a large percentage of the population.
The other option of completely closing all bank accounts doesn't exactly work.
Bad excuse. With $250K of FDIC insurance, finacial strength is no longer an issue.
Or do what I do, I use Schwab. (They didn't take TARP). I do everything online.
It is pretty easy to escape the Stress Test 19 if you try at all.
I use USAA Federal Savings bank which is based in San Antonio, Texas, and have for 14 years now. They have one branch and I have never been there.
Why does area of the country matter at all?
Freedom starts with saying, "It's my checkbook & you ain't getting any more."
'Reduce your budgets now, if you can walk from debt do it... if you can't, negotiate from the threat of default. If there is not a personal lien, that is the creditor's problem. Do not count on government to save you, look in the mirror for your salvation. There is one blessing fostered upon Americans that can't be denied. We can reinvent ourselves. We are not beholden to anything other than our imagination, we can make out of clay what our minds and our hands desire. I assure you that the majority of citizens on this planet do not have such an advantage.'
http://anonymousmonetarist.blogspot.com/2008/12/demand-restoration-project.html
This is what the foundation of socialism/revolution is built on; people with power abusing the system until the people without can't stomach it anymore.
socialism has nothing to do with this.
Russian Revolution?
what about it?
The abuse of power by a selected few political and economic elite gave rise to a revolution that had communism as its ideological base (and socialism is a less pronounced and more viable but somewhat unpalatable ideology to the majority of Americans). I can see the same thing happening now;
The powerful have gone too far and the populist revolt will result in a more socialist and less free society because the unbridled system of before is less acceptable than the possible alternatives.
World War was the number one catalyst for the Russian revolution. I see more parallels with the French Revolution. Can't wait for Thermidor
It was a catalyst but I don't think that we can discount the reason that the revolutionaries had the ideology they did; A war doesn't cause people to become communist, does it?
absolutely. Communists saw revolution coming first in Germany. Only war made it possible to occur in Russia. Lenin saw the potential,(hence his unpopular active call for Russia to lose the war),and put it to good use. The Bolsheviks, and even the Mensheviks, were fringe groups who co-opted the revolution once it began. Good god, I'm boring myself
Better dead than Red
And allegedly some financial support for bolsheviks from abroad :)
I think most Americans are smart enough to realize that we don't have an unbridled system. Corporatism and excessive control of people's lives will the the catalyst for anger and the solution will be freedom and an actual free maret approach.
During the Russian Revolution the bourbons were on the side of the white army and the red army was the people. This time it is the reverse.
Smarts are trumped by emotion time and time again.
Not if we ditch the defeatist attitude.
I'm pretty optimistic about this working out eventually but I am incredulous that we won't see some sort of lurch towards the left (which is double back flip ironic for me because I think we're too far to the right on a lot of things already.) that is all about catering to emotion of the electorate. Show trials, increased legislation without enforcement, tax rebate bribery, etc etc.
Eventually we'll make it through but I'm wary of it being political in cause.
Left and right are the different hands you jerk off and pick your nose with. This has nothing to do with left vs right. It is about choice. I don't see how catering to the electorate is a bad thing since that is supposed to be the function of the government. The government is supposed to be an instrument of the people to keep a level playinig field for everyone and lately it has been failing miserably. That is the source of anger. The stuff you describe already happend and its not woring since no meaningful change has been adopted.
People want choice; choice not to be debt slaves and choice not to bail out the banks. Choices that were taken away from them by "too big to fail corporations" and the current crisis. They will get this choice eventually.
When are we going to man up and admit we shouldn't have consumed as much? This isn't an issue solely about those in power abusing it (although it's definitely a part), but the average joe has culpability as well:
1. Taking out all those loans to buy shit you didn't need
2. Getting an upper level education without the slightest calculation as to the wherewithal to get a job or repay student loans.
3. Electing and adoring people who won't fix our problems.
4. Believing traditional media sources.
I take the consumer's newly found role not spending anything as a bit of an apology... "we should have been more responsible and we're going to try and make amends." If you go and fill out a loan for a $400k house and you make $3k/month, did the big bad bankster really trick you into a complicated loan?
We're just mad at ourselves... we totally fucked up... we're not skeptical enough... we're soft... we feel we're entitled to everything because we saw someone else with everything and forgot that somewhere along the lines, that wealth was earned.
We can go have a revolution... but I think it will fall on deaf and/or incapable hands... look no further than The Prince... what happens to people who get a taste of freedom? How do you corral them as a leader?
Our march to communism is a slow one... making steps every day... too small to typically realize, but still there... we won't sprint to communism... we're sloths... and shit, we're too fat (might have a heart attack and then have to pay for the crazy ass expensive healthcare).
I suspect any revolution we have will be one of enlightenment and without any sense of material entitlement... we'll have to generate our own wealth... that our great grandchildren can squander when our mistakes have been long forgotten.
"...that wealth was earned." How did the wealthy "earn" it? That is the myth which is killing you. Great fortunes involve crimes. Always have, always will. Sometimes it's obvious (the Kennedys, big banking, etc.,e.g.), and other times you have to think about it, research it (Microsoft, e.g.).
However, the government removed the backing of gold from our currency over a period of decades which set this crisis in motion. They set the stage and invited everyone to play along - and we did (maybe the Amish didn't though). The debt machine has served them well but is now coming back to bite them.
I call shenanigans.
There is an entire industry -- i.e., advertising -- geared toward inducing in people a desire for superfluous products and services. This industry has been studying human psychology for decades (google Edward Bernays) in order to identify the surest means by which to manipulate people's unconscious drives and bend them to commercial purposes. The environment is completely saturated with corporate media extolling the "virtues" of debt-driven consumer spending, and the public schools abet this brainwashing by conditioning children to uncritically accept as fact whatever information they are fed by authoritative sources*.
It takes a great deal of mental fortitude to endure this constant bombardment without succumbing to the consumerist impulse, and most people simply don't have the time or energy (thanks to mindless, enervating McJobs) to mount an effective resistance. Ironically, unemployment is probably a prerequisite for critical (self-)reflection in this country. People who still have jobs are too exhausted.
* This instilled credulity is also largely responsible for young people's naive approach to higher education. The message hammered into every 18-year-old's brain is "You have to go to college if you want to get a good job." And that's as far as it goes. The truth of the matter -- that a degree in anything except engineering, medicine, or law is practically worthless in this economy -- isn't communicated, because that would reduce student enrollment, which would negatively impact the bottom lines of both the universities and the student loan providers.
Arguably, the same reasoning can be applied to people's political decisions. A populace trained from childhood to derive its self-concept from overweening authorities is not going to critically examine its leadership and question its efficacy, morality, or sanity. This is not the fault of the people, however. Children don't ask to be propagandized and conditioned from the age of five: it's an experience that is forced on them by the state. Our compulsory public education system is based on a 19th-century Prussian model designed to produce compliant factory workers and soldiers, and it has been a tool for social engineering since its inception. At least four generations of Americans have grown to adulthood under this system; there is literally no one left alive today who remembers a world before universal public schooling and ubiquitous commercial media. How then is the public supposed to realize what is happening until it's too late? The answer is that it won't, because it has been deliberately conditioned not to. And only hard experience will inoculate it against the further manipulations of the elites. Fortunately, if this video is any indication, Americans are developing an immunity to the bullshit, but it will take time and a great deal of suffering before that immunity spreads to the general population.
Your point would be stronger if the government and the people elected to it were put there without the basket of objectives the electorate gives them.
sure the electorate is pretty stupid in this case, but it is not their fault. The government shouldn't need the electorate to know that their number one objective is always enforce the law.
And to act in the best interest of the electorate. Not in the best interest of special interests that bribe them. So obey and uphold the law.
I'm going to second Dice here in that the nature of the "left vs. right" is a non-play in my perspective, in that corruption has both in turmoil. Karl D's perspective is similar enough to mine that it bears repeating the salient point: Clean up your own house before you start pointing fingers (paraphrase). The supposed Left (nowadays bears no resemblance to anything about classical real freedom definitions) has been co-opted for fascists and the Right is pandering to anyone with a buck.
I will note the nature of information society we are now changes the dynamic in how people can organize, where they can get information (relatively unfiltered - read: Twitter in Iran). It will be destabilizing to point-sources of information, cough - Meet The Press - cough, of which the discussion is being had by them to marginalize this exact thing: A angry and astutue (enough to know the proper course) populous will find the information sources easier to organize therein.
Ignorance is still bliss.....
Unfortunately, it might.
go girl! stick it to them!
She's saying what thousands just like her are doing the only difference is she's on YouTube so we can see her. There's so much kindling in the country right now all the firestorm needs is some ultra-charismatic demagogue to provide the spark. I'm not sure if that's good or bad.
I'm sure a charismatic leader running on a platform of rebuilding our manufacturing base, ending inflationary policies, and crushing our enemies would do very well in the 2012 election...but something about that scenario reminds me of something way back when...not sure what tho :-)
But yeah unfortunately the righteous rage we have here can mutate into something that goes well beyond just holding the overlords of this ponzi economy to account.
How do you propose rebuilding our mfg base? The only way to eliminate China's low labor cost advantage would be to tariff the piss outta everything manufactured abroad; and the multi/trans-nationals will crucify anyone who suggests doing that.
I'm thinking that anyone who can tap into that anger and provide a political platform that supports it may well become the next President. It won't be a RepubliCrat, either.
The issue is, in order to do that, you pretty much have to lead a revolution-- whether it is peaceful or not.
What it means we might see the next Abraham Lincoln in the making.
We might just also witness the next Hitler.
Dangerous times, indeed.
I've mentioned it before but I tell ya Assetman, Mitt Romney wrapped in the right political package could assemble a mighty anti-obama coalition. Business experience, smart, white, great at playing to the love america or else crowd. He really scares me but I find it hard to imagine anyone else surviving the primaries to reach the top of the R ticket in 2012.
Obama was our chance for a Lincoln, so whatever comes next will come from us walking down a darker path IMHO.
Obama? ---> Lincoln?
Damn, Steak - been to Chicago lately?
Did O's flowing, articulate ways entice you like a Siren and wrap you in all the warm and fuzzies only a Socialist regime can?
As much as I don't want to see it, I know the collapse is coming. People are just too damn out of touch to realize when they're being duped. (Madoff, Stanford, Obama, Geithner, Bernanke, Paulson, etc, etc, etc....)
Dammit, I just realized that I might have come off as boorish. That wasn't my intent. Apologies for coming off that way.
It could be time for a third party to rise up. Only leader with any cred now is Ron Paul, but that seems too obvious. Of course, a friend of mine with little money but lots of street smarts predicted Obama for 2008 POTUS in 2004...
Awesome! That made my day!
You must be reading my mail.
maybe people would pay more attention if she replaced B of A with the IRS and Ken Lay with Bernanke/Geithner/Paulson.
Taleb and Roubini have set up "J'accuse" on Facebook to urge President Obama's government to make it mandatory for those bankers who have taken money from the bailout to give back their bonuses – all of them.
http://anonymousmonetarist.blogspot.com/2009/02/give-us-back-our-treasure.html
Nice. Current events are certainly as polarizing as Dreyfus
She talks too much and is wearing too much clothing. She needs to talk faster and cut it down to 2 mins and then it might have a chance.
- and 2 pieces of clothing......
Hahaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa, multiple entendre
Next stop: Stop buying anything that you don't need which shall be enough to put both the State and Federal Government into starving.
Make the Christmas the Bustmas and you will be saved, financially speaking. Stick it to both banks and governments. Show who has the final say.
Othewise, you deserve what you got from your government and banksters. Quit complaining.