U.S. Counterterrorism Officials Insisted that Crotch Bomber Be Let Into Country

Undersecretary for management at the State Department, Patrick F.
Kennedy, told Congress that the State Department wanted to keep crotch
bomber Umar Farouk Abdulmutallab out of the U.S., but that intelligence
agencies insisted that Abdulmutallab be let into the country.
Specifically,
on January 27th, Kennedy told the House Committee on Homeland Security
that intelligence agencies blocked revocation of Abdulmutallab's visa
because it would have foiled a "larger investigation" into Al Qaeda.
As noted by The Detroit News:
The State Department didn't revoke the visa of foiled terrorism suspect Umar Farouk Abdulmutallab because federal counterterrorism officials had begged off revocation, a top State Department official revealed Wednesday.Patrick F. Kennedy, an undersecretary for management at the State Department, said Abdulmutallab's visa wasn't taken away because intelligence officials asked his agency not to deny a visa to the suspected terrorist over concerns that a denial would've foiled a larger investigation into al-Qaida threats against the United States.
"Revocation action would've disclosed what they were doing," Kennedy said in testimony before the House Committee on Homeland Security. Allowing Adbulmutallab to keep the visa increased chances federal investigators would be able to get closer to apprehending the terror network he is accused of working with, "rather than simply knocking out one solider in that effort."
This is eerily similar to 9/11:
- One of al-Qaeda’s top trainers in terrorism and how to hijack airplanes, who was a very close associate of Bin Laden, was an American citizen who was an operative for the FBI, the CIA, and the Army (see this article from the San Francisco Chronicle and this article
from the Globe and Mail). Indeed, while he was acting as an FBI
informant, he smuggled Bin Laden in and out of Afghanistan, helped plan
the attacks on US embassies in Africa, and apparently played a pivotal
role in planning 9/11.
According to a 1995 Boston Globe report, his entry into the country was made possible by “clandestine CIA sponsorship.” According to West Point's Combatting Terrorism Center, the terrorist was:
Given a visa waiver under a “little known visa waiver program that allows the CIA and other security agencies to bring valuable agents into the country, bypassing the usual immigration formalities.” While perhaps “little known,” this authority was granted to the Director of National Intelligence by the Central Intelligence Agency Act of 1949 and codified in 50 U.S.C. §403h, which states that if “the admission of a particular alien into the United States for permanent residence is in the interest of national security or essential to the furtherance of the national intelligence mission, such alien and his immediate family shall be admitted to the United States for permanent residence without regard to their inadmissibility under the immigration or any other laws and regulations….”
- 11 of the hijackers received visas to the U.S. through a consular office where, according to the former head of that office, the CIA routinely insisted that visas be granted to terrorists, even when their visa applications should have been rejected under standard operating procedure
Indeed:
- An Al Qaeda operative very close to one of the top Al Qaeda leaders was a CIA informant
- In an article on the nephew of the supposed key mastermind of the 9/11 attacks, Newsday reported in 1995: “FBI officials also are considering a probe of whether the CIA had any relationship with [the nephew], who fought with the CIA-financed mujaheddin in Afghanistan in the 1980s.” A classified FBI file also reportedly indicated that the nephew had been recruited by the local branch of the CIA (pages 220-221)
- The president of Pakistan said that one of the masterminds of 9/11 was an MI6 (British intelligence services) agent
And U.S. and allied intelligence services had penetrated the highest levels of Al Qaeda prior to 9/11. For example:
- In January 2001 -- the French intelligence services gave a report to the CIA entitled "Plan to hijack an aircraft by Islamic radicals". Indeed, "foreign agents had infiltrated Osama bin Laden's network and were carefully tracking its moves" prior to 9/11. The original story from the leading French newspaper makes it clear that such infiltration went to the highest levels of Al-Qaeda's camps, and included listening to the hijackers' debates about which airlines' planes should be hijacked, and that allied intelligence services also listened into satellite phone conversations between the hijackers
- Moroccan intelligence penetrated Bin Laden's inner circle, and reported on Bin Laden's plans to the U.S.
- A longtime CIA officer says, “Egyptians, Jordanians, [and] Palestinians penetrated the bin Laden organization for us. It’s B.S. that we didn’t.” (page 143)
- Former CIA director George Tenet says that “a group of assets from a Middle Eastern service”, working for the CIA, penetrated al-Qaeda training camps in Afghanistan by September 2001. Bin Laden was dropping hints about the upcoming 9/11 attacks to training camp trainees in the summer of 2001, and US citizen John Walker Lindh was told details of the 9/11 attacks within weeks of joining a training camp that summer
- Indeed, in the summer of 2001, the CIA allegedly told President Bush that the highest levels of Al-Qaeda had been penetrated
In addition, U.S. and allied intelligence services followed the hijacker's every move:
- The Congressional Joint Inquiry into 9/11 discovered that an FBI informant had hosted and rented a room to two hijackers in 2000 and that, when the Inquiry sought to interview the informant, the FBI refused outright, and then hid him in an unknown location, and that a high-level FBI official stated these blocking maneuvers were undertaken under orders from the White House (confirmed here by the Co-Chair of the Joint Inquiry and former Head of the Senate Intelligence Committee, Bob Graham)
- The Pentagon also tracked the hijackers before 9/11
- Israel tracked the hijackers' every movement prior to the attacks, and may have sent agents to film the attack on the World Trade Centers. Israel, a very close ally of the U.S., presumably shared intelligence prior to 9/11
- And Saudi intelligence was "actively following" most of the September 11, 2001, plotters "with precision" prior to the attacks. Saudi Arabia, like Israel, is a very close ally of the U.S.
Moreover, the U.S. intercepted many high-level Al Qaeda phone calls:
- The CIA and the NSA had been intercepting phone calls by the hijackers for years
- The National Security Agency and the FBI were both independently listening in on the phone calls between the supposed mastermind of the attacks and the lead hijacker. Indeed, the FBI built its own antenna in Madagascar specifically to listen in on the mastermind's phone calls. The day before 9/11, the mastermind told the lead hijacker "tomorrow is zero hour" and gave final approval for the attacks. The NSA intercepted the message that day and the FBI was likely also monitoring the mastermind's phone calls. (The NSA claims that it did not translate the intercept until September 12th; however, the above-mentioned FBI translator said that she was frequently ordered to falsify dates of translations regarding 9/11)
- Shortly before 9/11, the NSA also intercepted multiple phone calls from Bin Laden's chief of operations to the United States
- Only two days before 9/11, Osama Bin Laden called his stepmother and told her "In two days, you're going to hear big news and you're not going to hear from me for a while.” US officials later told CNN that “in recent years they've been able to monitor some of bin Laden's telephone communications with his [step]mother. Bin Laden at the time was using a satellite telephone, and the signals were intercepted and sometimes recorded." Indeed, before 9/11, to impress important visitors, NSA analysts would occasionally play audio tapes of bin Laden talking to his stepmother
Moreover, the financiers for Al Qaeda were not mysterious and unknown before 9/11:
- According to intelligence officials in India, Pakistan's military chief of intelligence wired $100,000 to the lead hijacker days before 9/11 (mentioned here in a news roundup). This is especially interesting because: That particular chief of intelligence was appointed to that position with the approval of the U.S., and the intelligence chief had held "consultations" with his U.S. counterparts at the CIA and the Pentagon during the week prior to September 11. Coincidentally, the above-described military chief of intelligence who wired the $100,000 to the hijacker actually met with the leaders of the House and Senate Intelligence Committees on the very morning of 9/11
Other facts point towards penetration of the highest levels of Al Qaeda:
- 9/11 family member and "Jersey Girl" Patty Casazza was told by whistleblowers that -- before 9/11 -- the government knew the exact day, the type of attack, and the targets
- One of France's largest newspapers claims that the CIA met with Bin Laden in an American hospital in Dubai in July 2001
Did
9/11 - like the crotch bombing - also involve U.S. intelligence
services letting smaller terrorists into the U.S. so that they could
catch the "big fish"?
If so, this would be ironic, since the U.S. could have killed Bin Laden in 2001 and again in 2007, but chose not to do so.
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on Sat, 02/06/2010 - 00:44
#220200
Less of your inane crap please, more from the writers who are not insane and who write about finance instead of politics.
Thank you.
on Sat, 02/06/2010 - 00:52
#220206
Only an idiot would put a firewall in between finance and politics in this environment. You aren't actually using fundamentals?
The off-balance sheet sewage is the crap which is the real "missing link." They are raping Fannie and Freddie. WTF is wrong with you.
Missing a link? Oh now I get it.
on Sat, 02/06/2010 - 00:58
#220212
he is a cia flack....i am sure he has a picture
of mussolini in his cube at langley...
on Sun, 02/07/2010 - 09:02
#221042
"Only an idiot would put a firewall in between finance and politics in this environment."
Bingo. Firewall religion and you've gone from double fucked to triple fucked.
on Sat, 02/06/2010 - 00:56
#220210
has the cia permanently assigned you to troll
zh for doctrinal jingoistic purity?....i am certain that
you are a hack for that dicredited murdering
organization....
the cia planned and executed the the bombing of
the wtc using militrary grade nanothermite
in a controlled demolition of 3 buildings....
www.ae911truth.org - must watch
al-qaeda is an invention and branch of the cia....
the ever evanescent bin laden - former business
partner in baby bush's oil ventures - serves
to justify perma-war and the subjugation of
amerika to the oligarchs who achieve their goals
through cia....
those stupid faked videos from bin laden were
hilarious - must have been directed by baghdad
bob....
the cia trots out an alleged hi-jacking incident
every so often to keep the fear factor alive
and to justify trillions for war but not one
red cent for freedom...
on Sat, 02/06/2010 - 13:43
#220555
Verbatim
on Sun, 02/07/2010 - 03:30
#220995
yeah your right www.ae911truth.org . pretty much nails the whole shebang.
on Sat, 02/06/2010 - 00:58
#220213
LOL Echo the other comment! Only a complete retard would try to separate the two....especially after the display in the market today!
on Sat, 02/06/2010 - 01:18
#220226
Display in the market?Just short covering.Go back to sleep.
Obey
Consume
Sleep
on Sat, 02/06/2010 - 01:00
#220214
Another Bush/Obama lover waiting to get raped buy the guys in blue helmets...
http://yophat.blogspot.com/2010_01_14_archive.html
on Sat, 02/06/2010 - 05:07
#220294
You can always get us to gang up and try to ban George Washington. Or cry to Marla to get her to ban George Washington. Or simply ignore what you want to ignore and accept what you want to accept.
Being in a room full of fucking crazy out thier mind people and calling someone crazy won't exactly galvanize us against him though. How are you going to control this link? There's got to be some way to do it.
on Sat, 02/06/2010 - 15:44
#220649
ML could possibly control this link via some sort of logical counter argument. That would however require that she actually looks into it and asks some questions to which she would not like the answers to such as the whole cell phone calls from the plane crock, or the buildings falling at free-fall speed, why there was still red-hot molten steel in the ruble days after, how jet fuel doesn't burn hot enough to melt structural steel or a host of other things that don't add up. This will not happen, as to question 9/11 questions the whole world as most know it, the ramifications being terrifying. In the meantime... 14 junks... I think that is a record!
What I want to know is where did all the gold go??? "Hah - Fort Knox, it's for tourists" - Jeremy Irons, One of the Die Hard movies where they steal the gold in trucks from under the twin towers.
on Sat, 02/06/2010 - 08:45
#220343
Missing link... missing-a-lot.
on Sun, 02/07/2010 - 08:39
#221036
Missing Link=Chain of thought construction failure.
on Sat, 02/06/2010 - 09:27
#220364
This stuff is pretty easy to see with some history under your belt. Try anything by Niall Ferguson. For the truly lazy, the DVD "The Ascent of Money" is readily available through PBS - or Amazon if "public" anything sticks in your craw...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Niall_Ferguson
on Sat, 02/06/2010 - 11:12
#220419
do you want some cheese to go with that whine?
on Sun, 02/07/2010 - 00:53
#220950
www.ae911truth.org
on Sun, 02/07/2010 - 08:43
#221037
If you find this material inane or insane then simply do not read it. Many of us here appreciate the contributions from Washingtons blog and look forward to them. Not only are your remarks rude...but they display the kind of small minded lack of curiosity that has led to such wonderous American developments as the Patriot Act and the inability of the majority of U.S. High School Graduates to even find the very places where we've been at war for several year on a fuckin map. If geopolitics do not concern or interest you...then what the hell are you doing reading about stocks and the market? Because if you think one has nothing to do with the other, then you obviously don't know diddly shit about either.
on Sat, 02/06/2010 - 00:44
#220201
If so, this would be ironic, since the U.S. could have killed Bin Laden in 2001 and again in 2007, but chose not to do so.
And why didn't we take out Sadaam in Desert Storm?
It doesn't matter anymore. Fix America. Either a fire hose or a flamethrower is the fate of Congress. I'd welcome the latter.
on Sat, 02/06/2010 - 01:06
#220219
bin laden is a former business partner of
baby bush...he wasn't taken out because he
serves as official boogey man in the "war on
terror".....the real terrorists however are
the bush crime syndicate and their cia....
saddam was the former business partner of daddy
bush...that war was also staged...either
hussein misinterpreted some assurance once
provided by bush or was double-crossed in kuwait....
funny how they all surrendered en masse....iraqis
were then smuggled into the usa to blow up the murrah
building....not yet sure the reasoning unless
to embarrass the clintons who are surely jokes
in their own rights....
hussein was supposed to have gotten a pipeline
across asia but failed...he eventually
outlived his usefulness....it was a all a grudge
fuck against hussein by the bushs...enron
etc etc....
on Sat, 02/06/2010 - 12:54
#220514
I do believe you are over-thinking this!
on Sat, 02/06/2010 - 13:56
#220569
Sorry. Your information is not correct.
The bin Laden family were hired by George H. W. Bush (Bush 41...not 43...) and the Zapata Offshore oil company to construct their first offshore platform off the coast of Kuwait.
Mohammed bin Laden is Osama's father.
Zapata (the official name for the CIA Bay of Pigs Operation, btw...) later used their platforms to import/export guns/drugs/money throughout Central and South America. The process culminated in the Iran/Contra investigation. Later, the CIA "coke for guns" operation was moved into west Texas and Mena, Arkansas.
Connect all the dots, please. Do it for yourself.
George Washington has written here a String of Pearls that will shine light on all for posterity.
All of this has to do with the ruling petroligarchy in the United States. The Tbilisi/Azerbaijani pipeline should be halted immediately; we should get our money back for the infrastructure; we should convert all American vehicles to burn natural gas and be done with the entire debacle.
This has cost us enough already.
on Sat, 02/06/2010 - 15:55
#220647
Synthetic Terror was the answer to the Berlin Wall coming down in October 9th 1989..by July 1990, April Glaspie, US Ambasador to Iraq, was giving a "wink and a nod" to Saddam to settle things for himself about Kuwait's slant drilling into Iraq. GHWB, POTUS 41, then discovered gambling going on in the Casino, and the Peace dividend was securely back in the War-Is-Our-Payday pockets...and the beat goes on.
Stop all the whining and conspiracy thinking and get real and busy ---> Support HR 1835, take 8 milliion 18-wheelers off the diesel weasel into our pockets to OPEC's pocket and we'll be sending 100 Billion less USDs out every year for 2.5 Million Barrels of Crude Per Day. Domestic natural gas resources keep America free and working, spending our money here! If NY has issues, Pensylvania will be glad to get to work making it happen in every existing engine rolling today..or if necessary and even more stimulating, build new ones that take no new engineering or science.
on Sat, 02/06/2010 - 22:09
#220901
PERU, fer chrissake, during the past several years has converted much of Lima's taxi fleet into vehicles powered by natural gas.
If Peru can do it, why can't we?
on Sat, 02/06/2010 - 22:42
#220910
Japan has had taxis that run on NG too for at least 15 yrs. In south texas there are many people that run their pick-up trucks on propane or regular gas and are able to switch back and forth. Natural gas is more abundant than oil and it would create jobs drilling for it and take away from the dollars we pay for our foreign bought oil. Of course it would have an impact on refineries.
on Sat, 02/06/2010 - 01:30
#220231
and again in 2007 impossible Bin Laden died in 2002 from kidney failure. the cat with ten imposters
on Sat, 02/06/2010 - 07:03
#220308
Bin Laden is not dead, he just issued a new video guy.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/01/29/AR2010012901463.html
on Sat, 02/06/2010 - 11:18
#220427
yes and where did that video come from? mossad perhaps?
on Sun, 02/07/2010 - 09:38
#221062
The voice on the tape isn't Bin Laden... because we promised to kill or capture him after 9/11, and it's not like Bush has ever failed at anything before...
They dubbed his voice in like they did with Chef after he left South Park.
"I'm gonna MAKE LOVE to ya... children."
LOL. That was the funniest South Park ever.
Oh wait, back to partisanship. Yeah, so why isn't Bin Laden dead after spending trillions of dollars anyway? Isn't that the whole reason we went to the middle east in the first place?
on Sat, 02/06/2010 - 11:59
#220457
"The tape's authenticity could not be independently confirmed, but the voice resembled that of bin Laden on messages known to be from him."
It's a new audio tape, not a new video. Bin Laden looked like he was at death's door on the video right after 9/11. Did he get healthier over the last decade? He must have good health care.
Or, maybe we are chasing an Emmanuel Goldstein.
on Sat, 02/06/2010 - 01:01
#220216
Top 10 Problems With America Assassinating Americans
http://pubrecord.org/special-to-the-public-record/6833/problems-america-assassinating-americans/
on Sat, 02/06/2010 - 15:08
#220627
Excellent link.
on Sat, 02/06/2010 - 01:05
#220217
"penetrated Al Qaeda"
Easily done! Since Al Qaeda is a CIA front.
Now don't get pissy! - if you can come to understand the true nature of the ongoing war for oil you will see the simple logic in this. If not - - -
on Sat, 02/06/2010 - 01:08
#220222
Forget oil....its the heroin! Afghanistan went from 75% market share to 95% in the past decade with US support!
You don't really think it takes 100,000 troops and 300,000 private contractors to chase 100 Al Qaeda guys around do you....
on Sat, 02/06/2010 - 02:44
#220255
don't forget israel. they want us down in the hole that they're in so we will support their apartheid constant war. this explains a lot of the msm coverage of these issues.
on Sun, 02/07/2010 - 09:40
#221063
Good thing I get my news from the "alternative media." You know, goofy guys drawing goofy bullshit on a chalkboard that links Obama to Mao and William Ayers with six degrees of separation.
on Wed, 02/10/2010 - 15:38
#225477
LOL yeah Gary Webb and Steve Kangas felt the same way.....got to the point they both decided to committ suicide by shooting themselves twice in the head!
on Sat, 02/06/2010 - 14:03
#220573
Right on, again!
This all has to do with control of oil, sure. But one of the main ways of population control in other parts of the world is through the use of drugs. CIA imported most of the crack cocaine into the US to destroy the inner cities to better keep the people there under governemnt control.
Do you realise that since the US Armed Forces arrived in Afghanistan the poppy crop has grown by 600 percent? Six times as much potential heroin in the world as before we took over the fields?
Is any of this beginning to make sense to you?
on Sat, 02/06/2010 - 18:39
#220794
You are indeed correct. In July 2000, Taliban leader Mullah Mohammed Omar declared that growing poppies was un-Islamic, resulting in one of the world's most successful anti-drug campaigns. As a result of this ban, opium poppy cultivation was reduced by 91% from the previous year's estimate of 82,172 hectares. The ban was so effective that Helmand Province, which had accounted for more than half of this area, recorded no poppy cultivation during the 2001 season.
The United States needs enemies, likewise the drug war needs enemies too.
on Sat, 02/06/2010 - 21:28
#220887
Jeez . . . . You guys have entirely too much time on your hands, watching all those "x-files" re-runs.
on Wed, 02/10/2010 - 15:40
#225491
Take your pick -
Blue pill - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9bMteFx8LbM
Red pill - http://www.projectredpill.org/freedom101.htm
on Sat, 02/06/2010 - 01:06
#220220
Presidential Assassinations of U.S. Citizens
http://baumanblog.sovereignsociety.com/2010/02/presidential-assassinatio...
on Sat, 02/06/2010 - 01:07
#220221
george my man - keep publishing...you do a grand service to liberty and truth.....
on Sat, 02/06/2010 - 15:51
#220657
+2
on Sat, 02/06/2010 - 01:12
#220224
Sure, none of this is worthy of consideration. So a few thousand people died and a few buildings came down, so what? People die and buildings come down every day. So maybe it provided an excuse to start a couple of wars and spend a few more trillion dollars we do not have. Don't access any of the links provided in the story and possibly rethink what you are already certain of. Just keep worrying about your portfolio and let some other jerkoffs (who probably wouldn't have a job anyway) fight and die in some God forsaken hellhole. Nothing to see here folks, move along. Good little sheeple!
on Sat, 02/06/2010 - 01:24
#220227
I worked in US defence industry for the last 25 years, specifically for Wright-Patterson AFB.
Based on my professional expertise, the 9/11 official version has too many incredible holes. Specifically, somebody deliberately interfered with flight avionics of three hijacked planes. Well, it took years before the truth about the Gulf of Tonkin became known.
The final note, CIA was the primary Al Qaeda creator & organizer. Dead Bin Laden would be a big problem for the US war on terror.
on Sun, 02/07/2010 - 09:44
#221068
But isn't that why we went to war? To kill Bin Laden?
I mean, Bush didn't FAIL, did he? I mean he has this huge track record of success so I couldn't see how OBL could possibly be alive after 8 years and trillions of dollars.
on Sat, 02/06/2010 - 01:27
#220228
the toilet gang rides again ,, sure this and the sales of x-ray machines for diaper rash..
on Sat, 02/06/2010 - 01:29
#220230
Who was the guy in the suit who escorted that guy onto the plane, that is what I want to know.
on Sat, 02/06/2010 - 09:46
#220370
No you don't. Keep low.
on Sun, 02/07/2010 - 01:04
#220952
Ad-hoc guy flunkie brimming with plausible denial; a story you can't resist and stamped as official by the intelligence agents you were born to trust. Keep the status-quo so the ATMs (the only financial innovation in the last 30 years-PV) remain working. Visions of Richard Pryor holding himself up with a pistol at his own neck!
on Sat, 02/06/2010 - 01:32
#220232
guy in the suit who escorted that guy
he was a cia dude ,, doing his job to get the usa into more wars ..
on Sat, 02/06/2010 - 09:22
#220360
http://maxkeiser.com/2010/02/04
/kr14-keiser-report-markets-finance-scandal/
(You may need to copy/paste the long link into your
browser).
John Perkins ("Hoodwinked" and "Confessions of an
Economic Hitman") sheds light in this interview with
Max Keiser.
(Amorphous, ongoing "War on Terror" allows
Government to abrogate civil liberties and
rationalize ANY Pentagon budget).
This is Tyranny.
on Sat, 02/06/2010 - 22:04
#220900
Great clip. Keiser is always fun to watch.
on Sun, 02/07/2010 - 09:45
#221069
Against Nigeria? Or Yemen?
on Sat, 02/06/2010 - 01:36
#220235
more boga boga give it up washington .. your making your self into a complete fool .. by following this crap.
3 bldgs with two airplanes ,, at free fall speed ,, try tthat on for size ...
on Sat, 02/06/2010 - 01:40
#220236
This sort of conspiracy crap makes the other conspiracy crap look bad...makes this site seem less like a news site and more like a fucking bunch of paranoid loonies.
on Sat, 02/06/2010 - 01:44
#220237
good one more guy to buy the extra bridges for sale
with an IQ of 45 //
question .. how did the third bldge fall down at free fall speed .. mr duh for brains
on Sat, 02/06/2010 - 02:08
#220247
Oooohhh careful now they are watching you outside your window in a silent black helicopter...
Buffoon...I suppose next you will rant about the missile that hits the pentagon?
on Sat, 02/06/2010 - 03:14
#220270
no, what's so hard to believe that the attack took place about as portrayed (maybe the plane in pa. was shot down, maybe not) but that certain "rogue elements" in the cia knew what was coming and let it happen to "wake up america" and get the cia as an institution an enemy to replace the disappeared ussr (that the cia rated as an existential threat until it ceased to exist -- some spies and intelligence analysts -- it was the essence of their assignment for forty years and they totally blew it). certainly pushed america a whole lot closer to fascism didn't it? imagine thinking when clinton was being impeached over lying about adultery that in ten years some (not you) would be debating the propriety of a democratic party president's policy of assassinating american citizens upon his (or a properly designated subordinate's) say so. and what did nixon do that was so bad he had to resign?
on Sat, 02/06/2010 - 09:18
#220354
Certainly I have no doubt that given the incompetence of our government, any government our size, it is entirely possible that our CIA was penetrated, it has been for a while, by agents that did not have the country's best interests at heart.
Given that an avowed communist was but a heartbeat away from assuming the power of the Presidency, anything is possible when we willfully shut our eyes to the possibility. Before you rise up in protest read the Venona Papers.
Having said that, it is beyond absurd to consider remote control planes/missiles and explosives causing 9/11. That is the territory that this buffoon GW treads and it destroys the credibility of this site.
You cannot accept as possible ANY conspiracy theory when you are discussing what most people consider a wild eyed conspiracy theory, that the US Government is actively engaged in transfering the wealth of us all to their banker friends.
on Sat, 02/06/2010 - 22:16
#220903
Nothing that you've rambled on and on about has ANYTHING to do with REFUTING the claims being made. Rather than explain how, say WTC 7 could come down WITHOUT explosives, you prattle on about communists trying to take the presidential throne- WTF?
This has EVERYTHING to do with the markets when there are reasons to believe that the US government, which is now greatly involved in them, was possibly involved in executing a "Pearl Harbor like event" (or basically words to that extent put forth in the PNAC document).
If I had a copy of the Operation Northwoods documenation I'd smack you over the head with it: seems that no matter whether there's written proof, even by the US government itself, some people just (too lazy to read?) won't believe things unless it hits them upside the head!
Thanks for playing!
on Sat, 02/06/2010 - 12:50
#220505
no just evplain the third bldg mr little man with bogus mouth
on Sat, 02/06/2010 - 09:21
#220357
So speaketh the big hammer, biggest tool in the tool belt. Hey, Pierre: harden the fuck up.
on Sat, 02/06/2010 - 09:23
#220362
So who was it that remotely piloted the planes into the pentagon? Was it Bush or better yet Laura that used her Wii controller to pilot that plane/missile into the pentagon?
on Sat, 02/06/2010 - 14:21
#220586
you agaih? i thought you got your ass kicked the last time you started your shit around here?
on Sat, 02/06/2010 - 16:09
#220675
Al-Qaeda, false flag nut-jobs smoking Cheney dope, and boy wasn't 43 looking surprised as Andy Card whispered in his ear when Plan 2x20 went off in the midst of a handful of war games on that incredibly clear September day.
on Sat, 02/06/2010 - 15:59
#220663
LOL. Pierre, missing_link, Lou629, et [ilk] need to be removed from the planet.
http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51kAjXUxMwL._SL500_AA280_.jpg
on Sat, 02/06/2010 - 14:13
#220581
Big Pete,
After all the incredible "news" stories you have seen on this site, how can you say that?
Tim Geithner didn't know quack about the AIG deal, Paulson didn't know quack about Lehman and coincidentally doesn't remember talking to Lloyd that day (he was in Moscow meeting with Goldman- duh...), Cuomo didn't really issue a suit to the court, there are no FOIA requests still pending from the Federal Reserve and the Federal Reserve Bank of New York and nothing at all smells like a cover-up or nefarious action in any way shape or form.
Guess you don't really read the news here. You just come for the pictures?
on Sat, 02/06/2010 - 20:04
#220841
All of that is common enough, folks stealing other peoples money. Been going on since the beginning of time.
A government planning and executing an attack against its own soil to get what? You consider that in the same league of possibilities as every fool in Washington skimming off the top? Sorry I do not.
Some conspiracy theories have some credible chance of happening...others do not. The US Government flying goddamn remote control airplanes into the WTC and Missiles into the Pentagon is so far out of the realm of possibilities that if you believe that then you are still putting teeth under your pillow.
on Sat, 02/06/2010 - 22:29
#220907
So far out of the realm of possibilities? Apparently you're not a very creative thinker...
For your convenience I'll even provide a link:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Northwoods
I won't even speculate as to whether drones (pilotless planes) were used on 9/11. All I want to know is how WTC 7 came down: keep in mind that WTC 5 & 6, which didn't come down (and sufferred from massive fires) , were between WTC 1 & 2 and WTC 7!
on Sun, 02/07/2010 - 08:55
#221039
Pierre, go seek out footage of building 7 collapsing and check your suspension of belief again afterwards. There's a reason why that footage never gets played, and it's because it looks like every controlled demolition you ever saw on film.
The official explanation seems a tragic, farcical joke after you see it, combined with a sense of despair for what the lie means. There's no two ways around it.
That was the penny-drop moment for me; before that I shared your view.
on Mon, 02/08/2010 - 15:41
#222444
1,000 Architects & Engineers demand new 9/11 WTC investigation!
Press Conference Scheduled February 19th, 2010
Architects & Engineers for 9/11 Truth
As of January 2010, over 1,000 architects and engineers have signed our petition demanding a real investigation into the destruction of the three World Trade Center skyscrapers on 9/11. This petition, along with AE911Truth literature and DVDs, will also be presented to every Member of Congress.
on Sat, 02/06/2010 - 16:02
#220668
That icon you employ is too tiny to read:
is that "HOPE", DOPE" or "NOPE" under the iconic painting of the former Senator from Illinois? It makes a difference; yes, it does.
on Sat, 02/06/2010 - 20:05
#220842
It says I LIE which is exactly what that fucker from Illonois does.
on Sat, 02/06/2010 - 22:36
#220908
Is this supposed to be a revelation?
I.F. Stone beat you to it, and he was a bit more fair about it (than you appear to be, assuming that you weren't displaying a George W. Bush picture with the same words). I'll let you rummage for the famous quote, you appear to need to get out a bit more...
on Sun, 02/07/2010 - 09:47
#221070
What WOULD you call a bunch of people that say that the world will end tomorrow so stock up on gold bullion and ammo and seeds, and arable land?
I don't know. I was hoping somebody could fill in the blank for me.
on Sat, 02/06/2010 - 01:47
#220238
yep trust the guys from washington .. the guys that reported the 9.8 unemployment rate ,, when in fact it is twice that
1.36 Million Jobs Knocked off December Payrolls; Depression’s Job Loss Increased by 19%
- January Unemployment: 16.5% (U-6), 21.2% (SGS)
- Serious Jobs and Unemployment Deterioration in Months Ahead
on Sat, 02/06/2010 - 09:08
#220351
This always blows my mind. Why is it that some people have absolutely no problem believing their government when it's telling them something they want to hear (US government was taken by surprise and acted incompetently during the 9/11 attacks but neither the government nor its private contractors had anything to do with it) and complete distrust when it's telling them something they don't wish to believe ("real" unemployment at 9.7%, the recession has ended, GDP is hugely positive and has been for awhile, there is no manipulation through various banks and other financial entities, the Fed didn't see the bubbles, quantitative easing is ending, the list is endless)?
Might it have something to do with herd dynamics? There is little to no push back from multiple sources when calling the government a liar about unemployment and thus no social risk involved. But there's a huge push back involved when talking about the massive inconsistencies in the official 9/11 government conspiracy theory and thus a huge social risk. Why is there so much anger from certain people if you deviate from the official 9/11 story, yet these very same people have no problems deviating from other official stories? And who exactly is pushing back?
Just asking folks. Let's be consistent here. If we're going to be critical of some aspects of the government, why aren't we examining everything the government tells us? So you believe a government that is prone to lie, manipulate and even kill when it suits its purposes is going to be perfectly honest about a subject that could destroy countless government entities and private parties if anything but the official 9/11 story is believed by the masses?
People who don't wish to look closely at 9/11 are either in deep denial or enablers of the powers that benefit from the official story. Or just plain frightened that their government might not be acting in their best interest but rather may be trying to harm them. No one likes to recognize they might have been complicit, an enabler or that they are impotent.
If debunking alternative 9/11 investigations is so easy, why do the debunkers resort to Ad hominem attacks rather than fact based discussions? Because Ad hominem attacks use the social herd against your opponent and render any technical or logical discussion moot and abandoned because of the fear of ridicule. Ad hominem attacks are a form of guerrilla warfare, which is only used when someone is out matched when using conventional weapons and techniques, or in this case, logic and fact based discussions.
When you've lost the argument (or you can't even start the argument because you have no fact based argument to make) start calling the other person names in an effort to discredit the person, and by extension, that person's argument. Of course, regardless of what you do to the person, the facts don't change, only a persons willingness to look at the facts.
Denial isn't just a river in Egypt.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ad_hominem
on Sat, 02/06/2010 - 09:59
#220378
You may be on to something here. It seems a lot of people think of "Government" as being the things about government they don't like, and "Security" or "Defense" as being the parts of government they do like. So people can complain about "Government" issuing flagrantly false statistics and wasting money, but they have faith that "Security" or "Defense" would never collaborate in a terrorist attack, or at the very least concoct a ludicrous story to cover up catastrophic failure.
Perhaps similarly, the same people who complain about $800 dollar hammers for the Pentagon angrily resist any suggestions that we cut the "Defense" budget, but want to cut "Government" spending; as if the military and intelligence communities somehow weren't "Government."
on Sat, 02/06/2010 - 11:30
#220433
That area between the two poles is huge and a no mans land, a playground, for both the person creating it and anyone wishing to manipulate the person. In this area normal rules of logic and critical thinking are suspended, as if it were a dream world, which in so many ways it is.
By creating this dissonance, the person can bend the world to his/her own liking, often satisfying a need to support an extremely ridgid worldview. It allows that person to alter realty in ways that allow him/her to conduct his/her affairs mostly divorced from the emotional consequences of reality. It is our safe room, our make believe area, where things are as they should be, at least from our point of view. Where we can sit down and have tea and crumpets with the beautiful princess, the dashing knights and the rabbit with the reading glasses and all is as it should be if we were running things around here. A place where our ego is fully in charge.
This cognitive dissonance is actually encouraged by the powers that be so that it becomes a control mechanism. Once you begin to lie to yourself, once you begin to accept others' lies as your own, you become a slave to maintaining that lie. Rather than accept that you're participating in a massive self deception, it's easier, emotionally safer, to continue to participate, even defend, the lie that you're so intimately linked to.
Thus seemingly contradictory facts are not contradictory at all but simply part of the fabric of the lie. Your enemy becomes the truth, great harm is threatened if you allow others around you to practice truth, you become not only a passive enabler of the lie but an active participant in maintaining and even spreading the lie to others.
This is how small lies grow into huge involved and complicated deceits and subterfuges, requiring more and more energy to maintain than it's worth, at least from an outside point of view. But for you, it's continue the lie or face yourself and your participation in the lie. So first you deny that you are lying and then you deny you're in denial.
From an emotional point of view, this makes you extremely vulnerable to manipulation, blackmail if you will, though not in the strictest sense of the word blackmail, because you understand intuitively that it's much easier to go along with the blackmail than to fight it. These are not "conscious" decisions and thoughts per say but rather an extremely complex weave of delusion, self deception, emotional dependency and blissful ignorance.
I've often asked people what it is exactly that they think the CIA/NSA does in other countries, leaving alone any concept that "they" might also do "it" in this country against us. I often hear answers like "spying" or "manipulation" or even "propaganda". But when I ask them how these objectives are actually carried out, they are often tragically clueless and completely unaware of the psychological weapons used to carry of these covert operations.
And there lies our Achilles Heel, for a population largely unaware of psychology (many educated people indulge themselves in the fantasy that they understand the basic concepts of psychology and thus they're immune) is a population wide open to psychological operations. It's very easy to con a dishonest man.
on Sat, 02/06/2010 - 18:38
#220790
case in point: Matt Taibbi
on Sat, 02/06/2010 - 20:07
#220843
Very deeply thought out. I've thought along these lines myself. Not sure where I end up.
Your last sentence rings true; in fact, in the truest sense, the old expression "You can't con a con" is exactly false; you can only con a con. Someone has to want something for nothing and know the game is rigged for it to be a true con. Otherwise it's just a garden-variety ripoff, not a con. Like Madoff. His victims all had enough financial savvy to know he was up to something. They just thought the "something" was insider trading, and they'd be the beneficiaries. They were fine with that. When it turned out he wasn't actually doing anything at all, just spending (or otherwise "disappearing") their money, well, that was a different story.
We all have to maintain our self-image and our mythology. It's easier to deviate in increments, gradually widening the gulf, than it is to make a big leap. Which is why now, after all this time, so many people can't even consider the possibility of alternate explanations. It threatens their entire personal narrative.
on Sat, 02/06/2010 - 22:49
#220911
I'd like to commend that last several posts as being very clairvoyant.
That power corrupts should never be questioned.
The "something for nothing" rings very true when you look around and see that the biggest FALSE story that has been embedded into our psyche is that "growth is good" (followed by "<fill in the blank> will overcome the problems associated with/caused by growth"). We're all living THE BIG Ponzi Scheme- growth; and, the "cons" all know it (it's how They feed off of of everyone else); if people stop believing in this myth then they die...
on Sun, 02/07/2010 - 01:26
#220960
It's a beautiful thing. Their Elders (Rabbi Menachem Schneerson and the Mitzvah Tank crew) would be ashamed that so many of the next generation of their tribe fell for the old Gypsy trick: "Partners in Crime."
on Sat, 02/06/2010 - 10:15
#220386
It only hurts when I think about it
on Sat, 02/06/2010 - 10:58
#220412
my favorite is still that many (most?) folks now understand and accept that our "government" (in coordination with at least one other government) completely lied it's way into Iraq for nothing more than oil. Peak Oil education is helping that effort. So, whether they realize it or not they accept all of that murder. But as CD points out, the minute they are asked to believe that our government would kill its own, they shut down. Actually, as CD points out, they freak out and start calling the fact finders interesting names. I think it is because it crosses some innate threshold of security. Like rape of a child within the family. We all know it occurs. But the minute a family confronts it in their own, they shut down, the freak out, they blame the accuser. Another way to justify exploitation of course, is to call the locals anything but human. Worked for slavery, manifest destiny and other things. Sometime in the sixteenth century the pope finally had to make some official declaration that the american natives were humans. So these people aren't human, they're terrorists. For God's sake, they're not even christians, their "muslims, extremist muslims" And we all know extremist muslim with a gun and a uniform is the very antithesis of a born again with a bigger one.
My other favorite is that everyone accepts that we would have never "voted" to got to war without 911.
on Sat, 02/06/2010 - 11:52
#220449
"My other favorite is that everyone accepts that we would have never "voted" to got to war without 911."
Given enough rationalization and justification, we will always vote for the dictator (your dictator is worse) and vote to kill others in order to maintain our "way of life". This is only possible when we divorce ourselves from the consequences of our actions, when we label the "others" as less than worthy and thus expendable.
I've often asked people how they expect the world's population and it's unfettered use of finite resources (I hate calling anything a resource but will to be understood) to continue to grow exponentially. I often ask people how it is that they can blissfully continue to live a comparably healthy and comfortable existence in the developed world knowing that two thirds of the entire world lives in abject poverty and misery.
My point in asking is not to single myself out as better, more pure, because I'm thinking about these subjects. Rather I'm curious to see how they are not thinking about these subjects. The answers, when they're boiled down to their base, comes down to the fact that they......just.......don't....... think....... about..... it. For to do so, to personalize the basic unfairness of living in a throwaway society using the vast majority of the world resources for a very small minority, screams hypocrisy. Knowledge implies responsibility.
Better to not think about it, to claim that the problem is unsolvable, that if only this or that were different things would change, to paint ourselves as victims of the situation and thus powerless to change. After all, if you're as much a victim as the other two thirds, there's nothing you can do but sit back and watch the show, in comfort of course.
on Sat, 02/06/2010 - 12:53
#220511
Good ole Dick Cheney said "the american way of life is not negotiable"
on Sat, 02/06/2010 - 14:47
#220604
Thank you for your excellent input into this discussion, Cognative Dissonance. The depth of your analysis, well pas the red/blue bullshit, is refreshing.
You're absolutely right in that the psychological factors involved in the grand deception cannot be overemphasized. It is the fuel that runs the machine and has been the grease that keeps the wheels moving. Propaganda and Psy/Ops, no doubt.
I submit that it was much easier in the fifties and the early to mid-sixties to manipulate the media than it is today. There once was a thick veneer of obfuscation that could be relied on by the government but now that coating between the people and real knowlege has gotten thinner and thinner. The more we know, it seems, the easier it is to see how poorly we are being manipulated nowadays.
One day, this may become known as the Internet Uprising. Thanks to the freedom to exchange open information and opinion guaranteed to us by the Founders, we have come to a point in our country's history that it may become necessary to call upon the Divine Right, as stated by Thomas Jefferson, that we dissolved this tyrannical government either by the ballot box or by the box of bullets.
The truth is out. It is bubbling slowly to the surface. Destiny will be served.
on Sat, 02/06/2010 - 15:33
#220642
CD, you're obviously someone who knows what the human mind truly is for. I'm grateful to have been able to read this last string of posts.
on Sat, 02/06/2010 - 18:45
#220799
How can we live without caring about other's plights? There are so many levels of discomfort in the world. Is money the only factor? How about health, love or happiness? Do you gauge any of that?
We are all finite.. and most likely our souls run through new bodies like water goes through clouds and back to liquid. Experiences are the only currency of the soul. Hundreds of years ago most people never knew how bad other parts of the world may be living.. their lives didn't care about it. I think that is one reason why we had so many different languages.. it allows an easy border to forgive yourself not to care
on Sun, 02/07/2010 - 09:51
#221073
Didn't you know??? Terrorists hate our freedom. You're living in a pre 9/11 world. And besides... how dare you question our commander in chief in a time of war? Freedom isn't free, you know.
on Mon, 02/08/2010 - 15:22
#222423
Don't be silly. Now the President is a Democrat, so all that stuff is kosher again.
on Sun, 02/07/2010 - 01:30
#220964
Geronimo and Crazy Horse: Homeland Security....Fighting Terrorism since 1492
on Sat, 02/06/2010 - 16:32
#220707
flagging a well reasoned rational post like this is quite frankly pathetic.
on Sat, 02/06/2010 - 21:30
#220888
CD said:
"Why is it that some people have absolutely no problem believing their government when it's telling them something they want to hear (US government was taken by surprise and acted incompetently during the 9/11 attacks but neither the government nor its private contractors had anything to do with it) and complete distrust when it's telling them something they don't wish to believe"
Both of those responses are conditioned responses and that conditioning is applied to all of us. Once you are aware of them you will start to notice the same responses to many different stimuli. Most of the audience desperately wants to avoid the rational conclusion that their condition is hopeless so they eagerly deny things which lead to that conclusion or accept without proof things which lead away from that conclusion. In short, most of the time, the mind can be conditioned so that it's rational processes can be overridden by it's emotional ones.
The Tavistock Institute is worth your attention.
on Sat, 02/06/2010 - 08:04
#220321
War is big money for the one's who know they will win. No one in their right mind would go up against our robots. The trick to war is enticing some fool to go to war against us. That is not an easy thing to do. First, you have to make the opponent think they can win. Second, you need someone stupid enough to fight on their own soil. Third, you need someone who will kill their own people when things get rough. Fourth, you need to convince the American people that the opponent deserves to die.
How many ways can you spell radical Muslims?
We do not need their oil. We do not need their drugs. We do not need them. However, our next generation of robots is about to be placed into the battle field. We need them to die. But before we kill them, we need for them to kill as many of their own as they possible can without using modern weapons.
Radical Muslims make the best test monkeys. They are easy to kill. They are fun to kill. And there are a bunch of them.
on Sat, 02/06/2010 - 09:21
#220359
And gosh Muslims have never done anything to us so why are we going to war with them? Is that where you are going? So the fact that their entire religion is premised on overwhelming the entire globe by violence if required leaves you unimpressed?
on Sat, 02/06/2010 - 09:32
#220365
Color me unimpressed. Compared to the damage and misery caused by Banksters, Muslims are little wussies. So a few people die; big deal. Unless it's you personally, or someone you know, it's a rounding error compared to the number of people killed by drunk drivers annually. The wars, ALL OF THEM, are ginned up directly or indirectly by the Bankers and Defense Contractors, whether as diversions or outright profit vehicles. Go on, Pierre, keep hating the brown people, the Lefties, the Union workers, whoever else they deemed 'Them' for you. Meanwhile, the people running the show will keep counting their coins and appointing their politicians under the guise of "Demokracy'.
Welcome to the Machine.
on Sat, 02/06/2010 - 20:13
#220845
So exactly how did the Defense Contractors and Bankers convince a group of muslims to attack our country? Furthermore you laugh at the death toll in NYC while perhaps not understanding just how bad it could have been. Let's take the first attack in 93.
The largest car bomb in history to that point was ignited under the WTC and it blew a hole 6 floors big. The intention was to knock one building down into the other catastrophically. The toll would have been in the tens of thousands if not a hundred thousand.
Fast forward to 2001 and had the planes hit lower many more thousands would have perished. Had they had nuclear weapons do you doubt they would have used them?
If it is the Defense contractors who are training and arming them how come they just don't give them a couple or more nukes? Just think of all the fun.
All of these conspiracies so you dont' have to face the fact that a barbaric relgion is encouraging its followers to kill you.
on Sat, 02/06/2010 - 22:58
#220912
Two words for you: Timothy McVeigh
Clearly you've bought into the BIG LIE... Again, research on Operation Northwoods (take the Red Pill!).
on Sat, 02/06/2010 - 22:59
#220913
Ignorance is bliss.
on Sun, 02/07/2010 - 01:35
#220967
Your icon states: I LIE.
I believe you , but why do you use your M.O. under another man's picture?
on Mon, 02/08/2010 - 16:44
#222538
"So exactly how did the Defense Contractors and Bankers convince a group of muslims to attack our country?"
Well, you start by giving a foreign policy blank check to their most hated enemy, the state of Israel. Oh, and support the corrupt, oligarchical petro-monarchies that prevent them from fully enforcing their religious beliefs on their countries. It wouldn't hurt to put some military bases near Mecca, their most holy site. And if you could get some military representatives to talk about renewing the Crusades and converting Muslims to Christianity, that would be a good step, too.
As far as why they don't give them more advanced weaponry, they don't have to. Look at the return on investment they've gotten on a dozen box cutters in 2001.
on Sat, 02/06/2010 - 11:24
#220429
Mr. Legrand,
May I suggest that you read 1984 by george orwell, or read it again if you haven't. The book gives easy examples of how the government can benefit from a state of perpetual war. While I don't think the CIA was behind 9/11 I believe the episode has clearly been used for purposes that aren't kosher.
I have no problem with the idea of a government allowing things to happen to suit it's own ends. All you have to do is look at many countries and how their on government/or right wing counterterrorism officials commit crimes in the name of terrorists to justify certain behaviors.
on Sat, 02/06/2010 - 13:17
#220539
Mr. Legrand is not arguing against your logic. Quite the contrary. You, all of us, can accept the idea of self serving government without, by extension, having to celebrate every tin foil hallucination that comes down the pike.
We can choose to believe ONE thing, without being scolded for not believing EVERYTHING.
on Sat, 02/06/2010 - 15:07
#220625
Look, y'all, the Rock is yankin' yer chain, yo.
Ever notice how in all his posts, he takes some contrarian argument and then throw a softball at the end?
Can't decide if he is a sophisticated CIA troll (60%...) v. a true believer who thinks it is her job to get us to think (26%...).
on Sat, 02/06/2010 - 16:08
#220674
14% merde
on Sat, 02/06/2010 - 20:21
#220850
Funny how you name right wing counter terrorism as some sort of threat. I am guessing that you missed all those hundreds of millions that the left has slaughtered in the name of progress? If you want to be afraid of a government then be very afraid of where Barry wants to go.
Listen to this interview with Larry Grathwohl.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HWMIwziGrAQ
He talks about how the Weathermen wanted to treat folks like me.
on Sat, 02/06/2010 - 23:01
#220915
OK, just exactly what are "folks like me [as in YOU]?"
on Sat, 02/06/2010 - 23:37
#220927
What do YOU mean you people?
on Sun, 02/07/2010 - 09:55
#221078
Glenn Beck couldn't have drawn it any better on his goofy chalkboard.
on Sat, 02/06/2010 - 16:18
#220690
Social animals like bees, ants, and humans are hard-wired to sacrifice themselves when fighting to protect their homeland and access to their queen and survival. The suicide bomber is no dihfferent form the bee that stings and if successful dies in the act as his stinger pulls out his guts, or the ants that make a bridge across tangle foot to reach their aphid corral that they harvest for the tree juices the aphids suck out..no different, ordinary stuff. They see survival clearly; you perhaps live behind a wall of plastic crap made in China, well-insulated from the realities of life and experiencing the present in non-Tivo time.
on Sat, 02/06/2010 - 20:22
#220851
So suicide bombers make sense to you? And you say I live in a plastic bubble? What sort of drugs are you on?
on Sat, 02/06/2010 - 23:02
#220917
It doesn't to you and me, but walk in their shoes and maybe you could understand where the hatred comes from. If you want to fix a problem look at the cause.
on Sat, 02/06/2010 - 23:17
#220922
You're making assumptions (as usual, but only because you buy into the mass-produced propaganda).
After you've looked up Operation Northwoods another one to look up is "1985 Beruit car bombing."
BTW - Have you quit beating your wife?
on Sun, 02/07/2010 - 09:57
#221079
Mass produced propaganda? Why, you couldn't get THAT from the "alternative media" that is "fair and balanced" could you?
Cause that's where he got his goofy bullshit. The Glenn Beck program.
Who else talks about the Weathermen?
on Sun, 02/07/2010 - 01:41
#220969
Step on a honets nest naked and you'll wish you lived in a plastic bubble and the juice of the coca bush and poppy plant would be God's gift to you.
on Sun, 02/07/2010 - 01:41
#220970
Step on a hornet's nest naked and you'll wish you lived in a plastic bubble and the juice of the coca bush and poppy plant would be God's gift to you.
on Sat, 02/06/2010 - 16:20
#220691
fat-fingers make one dupe.
on Sat, 02/06/2010 - 09:51
#220374
Radical Muslims make the best test monkeys. They are easy to kill. They are fun to kill. And there are a bunch of them.
They almost ran out of jews.
on Sat, 02/06/2010 - 10:09
#220383
Interesting point. It works the other way around, too.
A very cheap terrorist strike provokes the massive response of the huge battle-robot machine that needs to do something to justify and generate revenue. Placing the next generation of robots in the field halfway around the world will cost enormous sums of money, while the "test monkeys" are nearly free of cost to produce and place in the field. If and when the money runs out, the invincible battle robots will lose their command and control. But the "test monkeys" will still be there anyway.
Both sides get what they want. Those who stand to profit from our robot industry get their cash. Those pushing radical Muslims into the gunsights of our battle robots get rid of a few (or a lot) of the friskier locals who would cause trouble, and bleed our economy dry. The only people who lose are all of us whose money went to the robot purveyors, and all of those whose families got killed.
on Sat, 02/06/2010 - 19:14
#220817
+1
on Sat, 02/06/2010 - 09:20
#220356
You can be agnostic on the bigger points GW make. since who of us really knows? I enjoyed this post as well as the comments. After the bailouts and related deceptions, many of us are more open to reinterps of the past than previously.
on Sun, 02/07/2010 - 10:00
#221081
I'm glad that there are people against the war and know that its b.s. now.
I remember how lonely I felt in 2002 telling people that there were no wmd's, and that the premises of the war were lies.
People looked at me like I was mad. I'm surprised they didn't call the FBI on me for questioning the commander in chief during a time of war. No, seriously.
on Sun, 02/07/2010 - 19:40
#221597
Yeah, I had my share of intimidations (like 4 strapping guys run a pickup truck at me- I stood my ground and challenged them- they backed down [smart of them]). Food thrown at me... And just after 9/11 (day of), my "ex" looks at me like I was a terrorist when I asked "what did we do to piss them off?" Of course, cause and affect is always alive- Chalmers Johnson spelled it all out in Blowback.
"When you find that you are on the side of the majority, it's time to pause and reflect."
- Mark Twain
on Sat, 02/06/2010 - 09:22
#220361
Thanks... as many suspected...
on Sat, 02/06/2010 - 10:04
#220382
Sigh. Facepalm. Can't anyone debate this stuff without coming off like either a) a nutjob or b) a religious bigot? I am sure, if folks try very hard, we can have an (ahem) intelligent, intellectual debate about all of this without resorting to name calling and delusional rants.
on Sat, 02/06/2010 - 09:46
#220369
Anyone who believes novice non-military pilots could fly those planes into those TINY (at the speed they were flying) LOW targets is silly. Think about it folks, if you have trouble landing a Cesna, can you be expected to hit a specific building at a specific elevation (not too low - you'll hit something else first...not too high, you'll mis...) at 500-ish kph? Really? What other magic will you believe?
on Sat, 02/06/2010 - 16:41
#220710
They skipped learning about how to land. The 9/11 investigation was the cover-up. If you question the completeness of the inquiry you experience immediate ad hominem attacks, as CD expertly fleshed out for us.
Adding to what Orly pointed out about being more vulnerable to cognitive dissonance in the 50's/60's I would agree. We had just saved the world from Nazi and Bushido ideologies, yet were completely unaware of the mass torture, imprisonment, and murder of millions of Soviets. Before the internet how could you even know anything about MK Ultra experiments without being involved in the program?
Detractors never explain alternative viewpoints because the truth is hidden in [plane] sight.
on Sat, 02/06/2010 - 20:25
#220853
I am a pilot and it wouldnt be that hard...landing is hard...running into things not hard.
But lets ask you if it was amateurs piloting those planes who was it?
on Sat, 02/06/2010 - 23:24
#220925
You're baiting things into a dead-end. Without actual suspects in place, and put through a thorough trial (and keep in mind, given the numerous exonerations that regularly occur, just because someone is convicted it still doesn't rest as absolute fact) we could hardly know, now could we?
Someone asked that civil discussion take place, and I agree. That's why I ONLY concentrate on the question of how WTC 7 came down- no pilots to mess with, no planes or pilots to haggle over here...
on Sun, 02/07/2010 - 03:01
#220989
Controlled demolition.Watch the tapes of it's collapse then watch tapes of other controlled demolitions.
For extra fun, watch tapes of demolitions done badly and see just how expertly it was performed.Fire induced collapse?....what an unswallowable crock of excrement.
on Sun, 02/07/2010 - 19:42
#221600
I was asking somewhat rhetorically... I've spent countless hours hashing over all of this. I understand physics, meaning, the "official" story can not be true...
on Sat, 02/06/2010 - 10:00
#220379
Tin foil hat...
Checkaroonie.
on Sat, 02/06/2010 - 10:04
#220381
Al Quaeda is just the latest "external" bugabear to keep the amerikan people terrified and agreeable to squandering 1/3 of our monetary resources on defense which keeps the likes of Halliburton, XE, Dyncorp, GE and many others going strong.
If the "war" on terror was real, the first country the US would have bombed is Saudi Arabia. The guys who blew up the USS Cole were Saudis. The perpetrators of the US African Embassies that were blown up were Saudis. 15 of the 19 9/11 guys were Saudis. Osama is a Saudi.
The war on terror provides US justification to do anything it wants to any person or any country globally.
on Sun, 02/07/2010 - 10:04
#221082
+100.
You'd think more people knew this, but sadly... people still think that the hijackers were Iraqis with nuclear weapons that failed to detonate...
on Sun, 02/07/2010 - 19:50
#221607
And complicating the matter is the US, of course. Consider that the ruling family is aging and no real succession is clear. The US MUST be in that country not only to protect the existing rulers, but it must be there in case the existing rulers fail. It serves both parties well for there to be fanaticals on display (though it's anyone's guess as to who is really doing the deeds- given that Osama bin Laden was on the CIA's payroll shows what a tangled web this all is).
on Sat, 02/06/2010 - 10:49
#220401
Thanks "Intelligence" A-holes.
I'll remember this next time I miss a flight due to a one hour security screening line.
Glad to know you are both wasting hundreds of millions of dollars of productive time as well as defeating the purpose for wasting that time.
on Sat, 02/06/2010 - 10:55
#220408
I don't know about all your conspiracy theories, this I do know. My neighbor's brother-in-law was one of the pilots of the 2nd plane, so remote control stuff just sounds false. I have listened to the 5 videos from Sibel Edmonds, hired the week of 9/11 as an FBI translator, her testimony sounds authentic, maybe you should listen, which will support the idea that her attempts to report the truth were ignored and prevented from being exposed within her own dept. I respect George's attempt to bring things to light. Light is our only disinfectant at this stage. http://www.bradblog.com/?p=7374
on Sat, 02/06/2010 - 10:57
#220410
Sigh...more bovine excrement from the conspiracy crowd with an agenda all their own. The sources they cite are usually dubious at best, dubious being very charitable about it.
They do nothing for ZH other than to detract from the otherwise high credibility of ZH, a reputation which it is both noted for and, the same reputation it will eventually lose entirely if the lunatic fringe is allowed to take it over.
Thankfully it appears there is one less wingnut among us these days, since PM doesn't seem to have put up a post on this site for weeks - HooRah!! Hopefully GW will go join him. Soon.
Flame away now, lunatic fringe. LOL...
on Sat, 02/06/2010 - 16:12
#220680
I knew you would be around here somewhere! Hi, Lou!
You're a broken record.
on Sat, 02/06/2010 - 19:12
#220816
¨Lunatic fringe,¨ that group of lemmings that doesnt drown with the masses. Typical namecalling... wingnut ... lunatic fringe.... instead of reasoned arguments. Let ZH worry about their reputation and I suspect they will survive.
on Sat, 02/06/2010 - 23:33
#220926
Two words: Operation Northwoods (you can go to the US government itself and find the released material [released as part of an inquiry into the death of JFK]).
Just because That operation didn't occur, it doesn't mean that such suggested tactics have not occurred (look up "agent provocateur"/CIA).
Oh, two more words: Manhattan Project (imagine something this big kept as a secret- so MANY people; makes you wonder how That was possible? 9/11 WAS a conspiracy; what's NOT known is who all contributed to it- sorry, if it's not brought out in a court of law any such "findings" are about as trustworthy as edicts from the Kremlin).
on Sun, 02/07/2010 - 10:06
#221084
Nice. You know it's true when five people flag it as junk. Happens to me all the time too.
b...b.b.b.ut!!! GOLD bitchez! And ammo, and canned hams! The world will end in three days, following the return of Jesus! That's why I only get the physical...
on Sat, 02/06/2010 - 11:17
#220424
top Al Qaeda leaders = CIA
don't you get it yet george? without enemies we can't have wars that never end fighting the ubiquitous terrorism..
chasing ghosts,dying for nothing, the rich get richer and the middle class gets poorer.
but tomorrow is that great event called the super bowl and we must prepare for that now. so we amerikans will continue to allow bored selves to be entertained , at all cost.
such is this life for now. one can only hope this will change.
on Sat, 02/06/2010 - 12:12
#220466
This isn't a conspiracy. It was an entrapment technique. Cops use it all the time. A blunder by the USG to go for a bigger prize-and putting a bunch of people at risk on that airplane.
I'm willing to bet that the USG didn't actually plot 9-11, but let these cats meader around trying to get a bigger prize and blew it. They lost track,got the wrong dates whatever. Condi Rice was put on the hot seat for knowing there was a plot way before 9-11 happened. I'll give that moron credit and just say she was incompetent and screwed up. She should be in jail.
The one thing you can count on in life is that any government and it's agencies are incompetent. And it only gets worse when it's malicious and incompetent at the SAME time.
How is this post relevant to finance?
The governments of the world are hiding their ponzi finance problems by drumming up terrorism scares. Everytime the government gets in trouble, or the ponzi starts unravelling, terrorism pops up. Videos of Osama,plots, alert rises. And in a world of complex financial interdependence and collusion, you can't just go bomb China. And China can't just go dump treasuries and kill us off. So the military and government class can drum up the esoteric terrorist threat to keep the money flowing to the right people. You think we couldn't get Osama by now? It's a headless hydra, invented by Western Governments.
What do you think those clowns in Davos are doing in private rooms(when there are no hookers)?
on Sat, 02/06/2010 - 12:14
#220467
This isn't a conspiracy. It was an entrapment technique. Cops use it all the time. A blunder by the USG to go for a bigger prize-and putting a bunch of people at risk on that airplane.
I'm willing to bet that the USG didn't actually plot 9-11, but let these cats meader around trying to get a bigger prize and blew it. They lost track,got the wrong dates whatever. Condi Rice was put on the hot seat for knowing there was a plot way before 9-11 happened. I'll give that moron credit and just say she was incompetent and screwed up. She should be in jail.
The one thing you can count on in life is that any government and it's agencies are incompetent. And it only gets worse when it's malicious and incompetent at the SAME time.
How is this post relevant to finance?
The governments of the world are hiding their ponzi finance problems by drumming up terrorism scares. Everytime the government gets in trouble, or the ponzi starts unravelling, terrorism pops up. Videos of Osama,plots, alert rises. And in a world of complex financial interdependence and collusion, you can't just go bomb China. And China can't just go dump treasuries and kill us off. So the military and government class can drum up the esoteric terrorist threat to keep the money flowing to the right people. You think we couldn't get Osama by now? It's a headless hydra, invented by Western Governments.
What do you think those clowns in Davos are doing in private rooms(when there are no hookers)?
on Sat, 02/06/2010 - 16:15
#220687
Bravo!
Gross criminal negligence in every direction. I would say the same thing about flooded New Orleans, but I always get shrugs whenever I bring up the fact that all involved kept their jobs or weren't prosected to the full extent of the law.
on Sun, 02/07/2010 - 10:11
#221089
New Orleans? Why, that was "school bus Nagan". Bush could never fail at anything he's ever done. It was the state and local governments, not the federal government.
We all know that the feds are here to protect us and keep us safe and warm.
on Sat, 02/06/2010 - 12:23
#220474
Y'all,
tough one this. Do we share info that is not 100% (50%, 25%???) credible in an attempt to better understand the plausible, possible (though not verifiable) nature of our world. We do it as investors every day and prices are based on this. Will Greece default? Will GS beat their #'s.
We look at all info to arrive at a conclustion. Invariably, we'll find some things that are incorrect, reaching, and wishful for those that want to tear up the status quo and begin anew. But so long as it is an honest attempt to open our minds to the possiblities, it's probably worth the time. But please, no one can prove a damn thing so let's not pretend we can. Having an open mind to the possiblities is good but closing it with certitude that there is a grand plot afoot is dangerous...especially if the truth comes along otherwise.
on Mon, 02/08/2010 - 07:02
#220524
Behind all the political rhetoric being hurled at us from abroad, we are bringing home one unassailable fact--[terrorism is] a criime by any civilized standard, committed against innocent people, away from the scene of political conflict, and must be dealt with as a crime...
[I]n our recognition of the nature of terrorism as a crime lies our best hope of dealing with it...
[L]et us use the tools that we have. Let us invoke the cooperation we have the right to expect around the world, and with that cooperation let us shrink the dark and dank areas of sanctuary until these cowardly marauders are held to answer as criminals in an open and public trial for the crimes they have committed, and receive the punishment they so richly deserve. - William Webster, Director, Federal Bureau of Investigation, October 15, 1985
GW - I suggest you take a look at the report drafted for the OSD by officers assigned to the Army War College in 1989 & 1990 relating to the development and expanding of the operative conditions necessary for the incorporation and deployment of increased national technical means in operations, foreign and domestic for some of the answers you seek. The fact remains that after Iran-Contra there were influential individuals more certain than ever of their belief that the rule of law was/is a barrier to the executive branch leading to the fuller application of the policy of judicial exclusion. These actions were augmented with efforts to lay the ground work necessary to render the rule of law moot with respect to all executive branch operations. The rest has been and is now our unfolding history as a nation of a unified political apparatus dedicated to the elimination of the concept of the rule of law and the professionals dedicated to its defense from national life as THE impediment to; "Preserving, protecting and defending The Constitution of The United States of America".
on Sat, 02/06/2010 - 13:11
#220530
The futile "war on terrorism" is bankrupting us, as it did the Soviet Union. And we are not winning that war. We were soundly defeated by the "test monkeys" in Vietnam (who were armed by the USSR), and we will be defeated again in Afghanistan.
Pierre LaGrande demonizes the world's largest religion. It must be easier to have your imperialist, nationalism/hatred spoon fed to you by the msm than to befriend our Muslim neighbors, or learn what the Koran really says. Ah, the "ugly American". The mind-set that ushers in the new Dark Age.
Cognitive, my friend...we are truly just beginning to experience a massive "sea change" in the declining living standards of the developed countries, so the days of bliss and unbridled consumption that we have enjoyed is ending quickly. As you sow, so shall you reap.
GW, I always look forward to your diverse and thought provoking posts. Well done, sir.
on Sat, 02/06/2010 - 20:30
#220858
The MSM does not EVER say a bad thing about the Muslim religion. The US government does not EVER say a bad thing about the Muslim religion. My goodness Bush broke bread with a few KNOWN terrorists the same goddamn week that 3,000 were killed.
If one reads history one comes up against the fact that Islam was imperalistic...for a long long time. They want that back. Doesn't mean that the Bankers are not fucks, or that the left aren't a bunch of assholes or that the Republicans aren't trying to fix things for their biggest donors, it means that in real life you can have more than one enemy.
on Sat, 02/06/2010 - 23:41
#220929
Saying it so doesn't make it so. Do you ever listen to what you're saying?
Two words: Manifest Destiny (so proclaimed by the "Christian Nation")
One word: Piousness
How's the reading up on Operation Northwoods coming?
on Sun, 02/07/2010 - 10:14
#221090
Yes, because Faux News isn't mainstream.
They just spew a bunch of garbage that plays to the majority of tin foilers out there.
Since they have the most viewers, that makes them the "alternative media" huh?
on Sat, 02/06/2010 - 13:45
#220554
Of course it was an inside job, just watch Kurt Haskell's interview (also on CNN) saying the kid was brought on to the plane with a sharp dressed man WITHOUT PASSPORT!! Watch the interview, don't believe me. Also make sure you listen to Kurt on Alex Jones who reveals EVERYTHING! Watch "fabled enemies" and "9/11 coincidences" on utube back to back, then you will learn what the hell is going on.
on Sat, 02/06/2010 - 14:29
#220594
why would he want to get on the plane w/out a passport? Wasn't the flaw in our system that he should of had his visa revoked? Visas go in passports.
on Sat, 02/06/2010 - 16:21
#220694
This isn't a chicken/egg problem. This is a complete WTF.
on Sat, 02/06/2010 - 17:07
#220734
because the whole thing was a setup, from the start. to introduce body scanners and profit from it, more importantly for people to give up their freedom more and more everyday.
In the history of mankind (more importantly architecture), only 3 steel framed structures gave in to fire, and that happened on 9/11.... something to think about
on Sat, 02/06/2010 - 23:10
#220919
They found a passport intact, but those damn elusive black boxes.
on Sun, 02/07/2010 - 10:15
#221091
I know I'm getting credible news when Alex Jones is the source. *rolls eyes*
on Sat, 02/06/2010 - 14:26
#220590
I just thought of a good defense for khalid Sheikh Mohammed. The CIA made me do it.
on Sat, 02/06/2010 - 23:44
#220930
LOL! (and then... I kind of quit laughing because, well...)
on Sat, 02/06/2010 - 15:46
#220648
Oh come on now, certainly you're not suggesting the real reason they allowed this underwear bomber onto that Detroit flight was to make national news --- just when the voting down of the Dorgan Amendment, with the support of the White House and the anti-votes of many a so-called Democrat --- just began to make the national news.
And now, of course, few people recall that the Dorgan Amendment was the closest thing to a public option to come out of the US Senate.
Next you'll be suggesting that those immigration/Hispanic marches, of several years back during the Bush administration, were to kick that warrentless wiretapping off the front pages of the USA Today!
Just because those marches were organized over the Spanish-language radio stations, owned by the Blackstone Group (gee whiz, those were the guys who brokered the fastest and largest real estate sale in NYC's history, the World Trade Center, OMG!!!!), who also happened to be the recipient of that captive insurance fund for the relatives of the victims of the 9/11 attacks (which they structured as a quite-profitable hedge fund, OMG! OMG!), is anything other than a coincidence, for gosh sakes!!!!!
Just had to get in my sarcasm - and thanks for this post - today....
Seriously, though, hasn't anyone ever heard the term "cutouts" before? It was quite common when many of us served in military intelligence eons ago! (Yeah, right...sure the CIA penetrated al Qaeda, like they really needed to...)
And hasn't anyone ever read Zbig Brzezinski's memoirs, for gosh sakes? Al Qaeda is simply an ongoing intel operation, used by the Paks, the Brits, the Americans and certain other parties willing to pay their price.
Catch a clue, doods.
on Sat, 02/06/2010 - 23:48
#220934
Yup! Everyone's playing their parts... Wouldn't want to people to pick up on the notion that we don't need leaders (who in turn grab power for the select few)... http://dissidentvoice.org/Nov05/Carpenter1102.htm
on Sat, 02/06/2010 - 23:50
#220936
On the money. Again.
on Sun, 02/07/2010 - 00:05
#220941
Congrats to George Washington for yet again turning this site into an echo chamber for the Huffington Post.
Can we get some real articles please?
on Sun, 02/07/2010 - 00:25
#220946
not long after he made this speech, he was dead?
hmmm
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QeYgLLahHv8
on Sun, 02/07/2010 - 01:21
#220959
This post is as crazy as saying Lee Harvey Oswald defected to the USSR, married the daughter of a KGB Colonel, said he wanted to come back home, and was allowed to no questions asked.
Oh wait, that happened, didn't it....
on Sun, 02/07/2010 - 01:24
#220962
18 Let no one deceive himself. If anyone among you thinks that he is wise in this age, let him become a fool that he may become wise. 19 For the wisdom of this world is folly with God. For it is written, “He catches the wise in their craftiness,” 20 and again, “The Lord knows the thoughts of the wise, that they are futile.” 1st corinthians 3: 18-20.
on Sun, 02/07/2010 - 03:27
#220994
sometimes to clear the brain one must think anew and in order to do that watch say Cambodia's answer to a young Sophia Loren in the following vid mash-up http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cke9UynnmAI
...
my take off on Goldman based on Old Boy where our hero eats the Squid raw http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T9yvSmSGjNg has been made inaccessible in the USA. (places tin foil hat on head) even though it is a Korean movie that had a limited run in the US. strange,
duke
on Sun, 02/07/2010 - 10:55
#221116
Deflect and distract the peoples attention. Unemployment going up in December, underwear bomber happens, distract the people from their real problems.
Governments/Rulers have been using this technique for centuries and will continue to do so. We have a great enemy Al Qaeda which we can milk for decades.
C'est, la Vie mon ami.