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US Debt And The Presidents Responsible

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Fri, 05/20/2011 - 22:16 | 1297320 sun tzu
sun tzu's picture

You're incredibly stupid

Fri, 05/20/2011 - 20:48 | 1297151 NOTW777
NOTW777's picture

partisanship is one thing, lying another and mental illness another

Fri, 05/20/2011 - 20:54 | 1297167 masterinchancery
masterinchancery's picture

On the contrary, Nixon rescinded congressional spending, until the SCOTUS idiots told him it was unconstitutional.

Fri, 05/20/2011 - 22:15 | 1297324 sun tzu
sun tzu's picture

I'm glad we have democrats like Obama, Pelosi, and Reid now who did a great job balancing the budget from 2009-2011

Fri, 05/20/2011 - 22:17 | 1297326 sun tzu
sun tzu's picture

I'm glad we have democrats like Obama, Pelosi, and Reid now who did a great job balancing the budget from 2009-2011

Fri, 05/20/2011 - 20:17 | 1297079 nmewn
nmewn's picture

Exactly...he's the last line of defense the public has.

Somehow, its never looked at that way...people seem to think presidents just stroll through orchards picking fruit to give away.

Its weird.

Fri, 05/20/2011 - 20:28 | 1297108 Manthong
Manthong's picture

Must be true, I saw it on TV - some woman demonstrating saying she was out to get some "Obama money" purportedly from "his stash".

I need me some of that, too.

Fri, 05/20/2011 - 20:53 | 1297163 nmewn
nmewn's picture

I blame it on the education system...I'm actually having a conversation with pan about simple government functions & civics...apparently they don't teach it anymore.

Fri, 05/20/2011 - 21:07 | 1297208 RocketmanBob
RocketmanBob's picture

Unfortunately nmewn,

Indoctrination in the "correct" way of thinking, the embrace of multi-culti-fetishism, tribalistic identity group politics, and the absolute moral imperative of "social justice"-a euphamism for equality of outcome, has replaced the time they had for teaching basic "civics".

Or reading, or writing, history, or arithmatic for that matter ;)

Because for all of the posturing, garment rending, hand wringing, and gnashing of teeth over the poor educational performance of our youth, there's been a conscious decision made among the intelligentsia that what's most important is the indoctrination of our young people, not their education...

As I sense you agree, how can one be a responsible citizen, and do your civic duty, if one doesn't even grasp the workings of government; either as envisioned by our founders or what it has transmogrified into.

My Regards

Fri, 05/20/2011 - 22:03 | 1297310 nmewn
nmewn's picture

My sentiments are the same as yours.

No one seems to appreciate the gravity of something I say often...they need us, we do not need them.

If that balance is restored, I can come back and give back, if not, I've never lost a minutes sleep over it.

Fri, 05/20/2011 - 22:43 | 1297386 Dr. Impossible
Dr. Impossible's picture

wow...hahahha...yup, all the "otherz" seem to only offer "white elepahant gifts" in return.

there aint much left here if ur cash(oops i meant unencumbered physical gold) rich and not indoctrinated, suckling off the tit of the better off, or just working, neighbors.




Fri, 05/20/2011 - 23:36 | 1297493 nmewn
nmewn's picture

Neither am I...I've made a lifestyle of it ;-)

Fri, 05/20/2011 - 22:43 | 1297381 Caviar Emptor
Caviar Emptor's picture

They conspire together as a unit. In all cases. 

Fri, 05/20/2011 - 20:08 | 1297054 Long-John-Silver
Long-John-Silver's picture

The end of this 50 state union is very close. When the Dollar dies this country as we know it is gone forever.

Fri, 05/20/2011 - 20:22 | 1297084 Rodent Freikorps
Rodent Freikorps's picture

Shit happens.

Fri, 05/20/2011 - 20:32 | 1297118 Hugh G Rection
Hugh G Rection's picture

I haven't been fucked like this since grade school.

Fri, 05/20/2011 - 20:34 | 1297124 Rodent Freikorps
Rodent Freikorps's picture

My nanny was pretty hot. I guess I got lucky.

Fri, 05/20/2011 - 20:51 | 1297157 Derpin USA
Derpin USA's picture

I want to have your abortion.

Sat, 05/21/2011 - 01:17 | 1297678 knukles
knukles's picture

Tyler.  Now this is a serious breach of protocol.

Fri, 05/20/2011 - 23:37 | 1297498 pan-the-ist
pan-the-ist's picture

I drink to that.  Time to reboot.

Fri, 05/20/2011 - 20:10 | 1297056 speconomist
speconomist's picture

I see something increasing exponentially in that chart, and it's not the price of silver.

Sat, 05/21/2011 - 01:06 | 1297658 pods
pods's picture

Oh man where is mako?

I guess issuing debt money at interest doesn't end well?


Sat, 05/21/2011 - 20:07 | 1299159 Dejean Splicer
Dejean Splicer's picture

Joo confetti.

Fri, 05/20/2011 - 20:11 | 1297057 Yen Cross
Yen Cross's picture

 Is this an aphabetical, or rhetorical Question? The reason I ask, is because I could start with (R).

Fri, 05/20/2011 - 20:14 | 1297059 Zero Govt
Zero Govt's picture

looking at the chart the real debt acceleration (to almost doubling the debt) started with Bush II ....previous administrations increases weren't at a near 100% doubling rate ...Obumma has simply continued the Bush suicide rate

...this adds up in that Govt is not about opposing forces (parties) but 2 parties of pigs feeding at the trough for all their scum greedy arses are worth (ie. there is no political difference, they are just shades of parasite)

Fri, 05/20/2011 - 20:39 | 1297127 Alex Kintner
Alex Kintner's picture

You'd really need to see this chart somehow normalized to 2011 $USD value to get a true sense how badly previous presidents accelerated spending compared to present. 

Fri, 05/20/2011 - 20:36 | 1297129 Alasdair
Alasdair's picture

I agree with the rest of your post, but as far as this chart goes, it started when Reagan tripled the debt.


Fri, 05/20/2011 - 20:48 | 1297158 Rodent Freikorps
Rodent Freikorps's picture

He had a cold war to win and a Dem Congress. Try again.

Fri, 05/20/2011 - 21:32 | 1297258 pan-the-ist
pan-the-ist's picture

Another manufactured crisis.  They knew that the Russian forces weren't worth shit, but they wanted to continue their spending spree and as we all know, the way to do that is manufacture an enemy and build an army.

Fri, 05/20/2011 - 21:38 | 1297268 Rodent Freikorps
Rodent Freikorps's picture

You forget how toothless NATO actually is. The threat was real.

Rusty tanks are better than none, and they'd just introduced reactive armor. The threat was real.

Fri, 05/20/2011 - 22:36 | 1297355 zaknick
zaknick's picture


Fri, 05/20/2011 - 22:31 | 1297357 zaknick
zaknick's picture

You are completely wrong. Search YouTube for John Stockwell, one of the highest level CIA ossifer to resign and speak out against the banksters (who created the drug trafficking CIA and run DoD and everything else in this monstrosity of a country. It wasn't about the "cold war" (war on drugs terror bla bla bla) it was a war against the people of the world.

They (the drug trafficking/laundering banksters -your Dear Leaders according to your moronic utterances)are responsible for the deaths of tens of millions of people ultimately.

BTW, Reagan ran shit diddly squat. Bush (cousin to the drug trafficking since the Opium War Windsors) was their front man.

Your thinking is a product of mightier (intellectually) men than you.

Fri, 05/20/2011 - 22:55 | 1297420 Rodent Freikorps
Rodent Freikorps's picture

I was just recently ruminating on how the Bush family immediately began to betray everything Reagan stood for.

Never trust an Ivy Leaguer.

Heh. Even if your bullshit numbers were true, we are pikers compared to any communist leader's body count.

I love the USA, and if so ordered, I'll bring the wrath of God to you and yours. And I will sleep well at night.

Good luck.

Sat, 05/21/2011 - 05:28 | 1297843 falak pema
falak pema's picture

Rodent, you sound like  the Conditorri of the medieval ages who hired themselves to the Guelphs or the Ghibelline factions, during the Papal/Emperor wars in Italy...."I lovva maya conrty...mamma mia, that ugly emperor/pope he wanna take maya contry awaya...mutha fukka...overa maya deda bodiya..." 

I like you in that Roberto de Niro role : "taxi driver" wanna fukka with wanna fukka with meya..??

Ronald Reagan and Rambo...there we go...wowa!

Sat, 05/21/2011 - 12:00 | 1298196 Rodent Freikorps
Rodent Freikorps's picture

I think this is the quote you are looking for:

I go as far the other direction as the haters go their's. Use a filter.

You really should meet some real Guidos sometime. Salt of the earth, if a bit too likely to go liberal.

Sat, 05/21/2011 - 12:57 | 1298268 Cathartes Aura
Cathartes Aura's picture

I was just recently ruminating on how the Bush family immediately began to betray everything Reagan stood for.

*eye roll*

let me simplify this for you - Raygun was to BushDaddy as Cheney was to Dubya - a fucking muppet for the masses to focus their attention on while the real business was going down. . . Bush, you know, ex-CIA Director. . .

away back to your cud chewing.

Sat, 05/21/2011 - 13:02 | 1298278 Rodent Freikorps
Rodent Freikorps's picture

Whatever lets you sleep at night.

Bush was also ambassador to China and yet it took Clinton to extend most favored nation status and to let them steal nuclear and missile tech.

"mid-1993, the President set additional human rights conditions for the renewal of China's MFN status in mid-1994, but this policy was reversed in 1994, by delinking the MFN renewal from human rights and other conditions"

Just another Dem prez paying back campaign contributions...

Sat, 05/21/2011 - 14:40 | 1298394 Cathartes Aura
Cathartes Aura's picture

because BOTH sides don't "pay back" their supporters??

for the record, I don't vote, and realise there are no "sides" in government (bar perhaps gov't vs. the "people") - if you seriously cannot realise the continuity of governance and the revolving door policy of whichever side isn't "in office" is "in corporate" waiting for their next turn at the trough, then by all means, keep cheering on your "team". . .

*cough* nixon, gold standard, his sec. of state kissinger opening china's "door" etc. - all still unfolding today. . .


Sat, 05/21/2011 - 14:50 | 1298408 Rodent Freikorps
Rodent Freikorps's picture

I understand. I am the voice of oppostition. If I show the Dem trolls are full of shit, then perhaps people will actually go out and learn that the police state cometh, whatever we do.

But they must learn it themselves, not wallow in the comfortable mud bath of the MFM, Hollywood or the Daily Show. They swallow that shit and feel superior because they "agree" with the appointed beautiful people. Fucking idiots. Just because they feed your bullshit overblown sense of your own self-worth does not mean they are not manipulating you. Over-educated fools are the worst. They never question the beliefs they were propagandized with in schools of higher propaganda.

If people do not put forth the effort to be informed, they deserve slavery.

Fri, 05/20/2011 - 23:41 | 1297504 High Plains Drifter
High Plains Drifter's picture

that pilot that used to fly drugs into mena arkansas, barry seal , who was murdered (imagine that)   used to say he had a chip in the big game. i think he had pictures of george bush jr and jeb bush unloading cocaine packages from the back of a truck in arkansas........

Fri, 05/20/2011 - 23:37 | 1297499 High Plains Drifter
High Plains Drifter's picture

helmut kohl said one time, if east germany and the russian republics attacked he would immediately surrender.  when faced with nuclear winter in europe, i never disagreed with him on this. why fight.  a lot of young men would die for nothing. 

Sat, 05/21/2011 - 05:24 | 1297838 falak pema
falak pema's picture

did he ask your enlightened opinion over tea or coffee?

Sat, 05/21/2011 - 12:07 | 1298205 Rodent Freikorps
Rodent Freikorps's picture

Freedom is nothing?

Good to know.

Fri, 05/20/2011 - 22:50 | 1297396 Caviar Emptor
Caviar Emptor's picture

That's exactly why Eisenhower warned about The Military-Industrial Complex in his farewell speech. As an insider, he knew. A simple translation of what he said: there are people profiteering off of a phony situation. Beware. He was right indeed. 

Sat, 05/21/2011 - 01:23 | 1297689 knukles
knukles's picture

Eisenhower made that speech twice in the same day.  The first was given to a large swath of Congresscritters, in which he referred to the existential threat as the Military-Industrial-Congressional complex.
The outcry and threats of retaliation from Congress were so great, such pressure applied, that the formal public presentation had the concern curtailed to today's popular Military-Industrial complex.
Which might be best updated to Financial-Congressional Complex.

Sat, 05/21/2011 - 09:47 | 1297995 Rainman
Rainman's picture

***** correct. Ike twitches in his grave knowing the USA has been sold off by elected traitors to the highest bidder. 

Fri, 05/20/2011 - 23:28 | 1297482 High Plains Drifter
High Plains Drifter's picture

do you rememer when that guy flew his plane to moscow and landed in red square. nobody shot him down. no jets were scrambled.  i am sure some commanders were dismissed that day......

Fri, 05/20/2011 - 23:49 | 1297523 RocketmanBob
RocketmanBob's picture

Hindsight is 20/20...

At the time, no one really knew how hollow Soviet forces were. After all, they put up a good front, and were able to keep up with us in important areas of military technology.

In Europe, they had the numerical advantage as well as an edge in short-range nuclear missiles. And although we had the edge in surface Navy, their submarine fleet appeared formidable. The Typhoon class boomer subs were massive and heavily armed.

Only later did it become apparent that they had not been able to afford to keep up their strategic systems adequately. As such, on any given day, if they had "pushed the button", an incredibly high percentage of their force would never have flown.

But conventionally it was a different story. While we enjoyed better avionics and training, Soviet aircraft were formidable.  As a Naval aviator, I danced with a few over the years; both near the end of the cold war, when they were aggressive near "the boat", and by proxy in exotic places like Libya and Iraq. They were accomplished flyers operating good aircraft.

So yes, while it came to light well after the end of the cold war that the Soviets couldn't have fought a protracted conventional or nuclear exchange, it wasn't known at the time.

Hence Mr. Clinton's ability to drastically reduce the US military.

I'll never forgive him for disestablishing my beloved VF-84...

Sat, 05/21/2011 - 00:05 | 1297546 High Plains Drifter
High Plains Drifter's picture

well we got the "peace dividend" whatever that means. but peace is not good for business. this is why john lennon was murdered. when peace breaks out, the sheep become less useful.........

frankly the us military should be disbanded completely. totally. all nuclear weapons should be destroyed and all wmd's should be eliminated. all research into bioweapons should be stopped and ended. do you think this is a big order? 

Sat, 05/21/2011 - 06:27 | 1297854 Husk-Erzulie
Husk-Erzulie's picture

Napoleon and Hitler both made the mistake of imagining that because the Russians seemed bacward, ill equipped and disorganized they couldn't fight.  Ever so wrong, the strength of the Russian nation and military has never been in its arms per se (though they are often superb in a rugged, no BS kind of way).  The true strength of Russia is it's deep tradition of grim fatalism, Russian troops and civilians as well can take endless amounts of misery, pain, and loss and maintain a grim, deadly effectiveness that no other nation has ever matched.  Their fatalism is both their curse and the iron core which has supported their culture for many long centuries.  Rusty tanks? No, an entire army drivin' Q-cars.

Sat, 05/21/2011 - 06:41 | 1297860 Zero Govt
Zero Govt's picture

yes precisely where is the inter-galactic missile defence system Regan promised ...he sure spent the $billions, anyone seen it or know when it is due for delivery? 

Fri, 05/20/2011 - 22:47 | 1297400 TexasAggie
TexasAggie's picture

Pres Reagan also had a very bad economy from Carter, remember the misery index at over 20; and according to John Williams of Shadowstats, if the BLS used the same level as in 1980, it would be over 22 now.  Also, when Reagan agreed to some tax cuts in 1986, Tip O'neill and the democrats agreed to some spending cuts only the tax increases were approved, but no spending cuts - also remember the tomato as a vegatable argument, and the democrats claim any reduction from the growth of a program is a spending cut.

For example, it takes $1000 in CY10 dollars for food, and your wife planned to spend 1100 in CY11, only you tell her that you have cut her grocery buget by $50, but she spends 1050 by borrowing the $50.00 and tells you she cut her spending by $50.

This is what both sides do all of the time.

The debt does include the cost of the wars because it is borrowed, but was not included in the initial budget estiamtes.

Fri, 05/20/2011 - 23:33 | 1297489 High Plains Drifter
High Plains Drifter's picture

i think carter got pushed out because they were unhappy with what he was doing and wanted him out.  so they raised up reagan to take his place. some people on the "left" (whatever that means)  said he was just a actor. in fact and in deed, he was just a actor. probably the last real president we have had in known memory was JFK and we see what happened to him..........

Sat, 05/21/2011 - 02:56 | 1297769 blunderdog
blunderdog's picture

Kennedy was OK as long as you don't evaluate him on any accomplishments.

As soon as you ask yourself what he accomplished, you realize he was an empty-suit pretty boy who oversaw creation of far bigger messes than he was in a position to clean up.

Fri, 05/20/2011 - 23:34 | 1297494 High Plains Drifter
High Plains Drifter's picture

why in the hell would GHWB put his presidential library at Aggie land?  he didn't go there and he never had anything to do with the school. i always thought Rice would have been a better place for it......

Sat, 05/21/2011 - 00:04 | 1297543 sgorem
sgorem's picture

little tipsy at the moment, but are you saying " george bush put his aggie in condi rice? wow.

Sat, 05/21/2011 - 00:10 | 1297550 High Plains Drifter
High Plains Drifter's picture

well junior had this thing for dark meat, there is no doubt.


but no, i am talking about senior putting his presidential library at texas agricultural and mechanical college .....

Sat, 05/21/2011 - 06:25 | 1297853 Hephasteus
Hephasteus's picture

"He had a cold war to win and a Dem Congress. Try again."

You know it's kind of funny there are leaked documents of Joe Biden talking to a russian guy and the russian guy is talking about how china killed 30,000 citizens in teneman square and tried to pass it off as 3,000. And Joe Biden is all like. Well our biggest problem is trying to convincingly pretend to care about human rights.

You are cargo to these people. You're "guardian" is responsible for guarding and adding value to you but once you reach child labor age you are a fucking human resource or a useless eater or a usefull attack dog or a clueless background noise or a slightly rich see the system works distraction.

Sat, 05/21/2011 - 14:54 | 1298056 Rodent Freikorps
Rodent Freikorps's picture

I imagine you will always be bitter if you judge the quality of your life against the lives of the elites.

Like a poor marksman, you continue to miss the target.

Sat, 05/21/2011 - 15:26 | 1298477 Hephasteus
Hephasteus's picture

I don't judge my life against the elites. I make them judge their life against mine.

Sat, 05/21/2011 - 00:10 | 1297557 High Plains Drifter
High Plains Drifter's picture

if you notice, the curve starts inching upwards during the early 70's when they took us off of the gold standard.........

Sat, 05/21/2011 - 06:42 | 1297861 Zero Govt
Zero Govt's picture

very interesting new piece by Martin Armstrong on the death (debt) of the Roman Empire... seems politicians promising entitlements and then drowning in their own false promises is just a little piece of history repeating today...

why don't they teach this history, economics and politics in State schools?

Sat, 05/21/2011 - 09:35 | 1297978 High Plains Drifter
High Plains Drifter's picture

the same thing that happened to the romans is happening to us now.  rome was strong and virulent until one day, they decided to invade the middle east.  when they did this, they acquired certain tribal members who became roman citizens and started moving about the roman empire. they brought with them new ideas on money. shall i continue?

Sat, 05/21/2011 - 10:02 | 1298016 sun tzu
sun tzu's picture

Obama's deficit in one year is more than Reagans cumulative deficits over 8 years.

Fri, 05/20/2011 - 20:14 | 1297065 DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture

Thank you Tyler.

Fri, 05/20/2011 - 22:29 | 1297353 RebelYell
RebelYell's picture

agree, thank you. fuck you you fucking fucks.  we're fucked.

Fri, 05/20/2011 - 20:18 | 1297072 Rodent Freikorps
Rodent Freikorps's picture

You should track this based on who controls congress. You know, the people the Constitution says control the public purse.

Makes Dems look even worse. Dems took control in 2006.

Fri, 05/20/2011 - 20:21 | 1297086 Yen Cross
Yen Cross's picture

 Hope you are well R/F. That (R) was a post WW2 electorate. Not my (R) party.

Fri, 05/20/2011 - 20:25 | 1297101 Rodent Freikorps
Rodent Freikorps's picture

Doin good. How's life treating you?

I always assume you are clued in.

Fri, 05/20/2011 - 21:06 | 1297210 Yen Cross
Yen Cross's picture

 Still in Queensland. It's fall here. Went fishing for 2 days to take a break. The Aussie economy is really broken up right now. Retail and tourism are really weak. Mining and construction are good, but exports are weak due to strong currency issues. 


  My trading platform for F/X opens @ 18:00 GMT on Sunday so I will be around. The spreads start to tighten around that time.   You have any thoughts or ideas?

Fri, 05/20/2011 - 21:19 | 1297227 Rodent Freikorps
Rodent Freikorps's picture

None at all. I don't have enough money to make currency trading worth while.

Hope you caught you limit. :)

Fri, 05/20/2011 - 21:35 | 1297247 Yen Cross
Yen Cross's picture

Sure you do. 500 usd will set you up just fine trading smalls. It will hone your other market skills as well. Lets talk on Sunday and I'll shoot you an email. I had an average week. Long usd/jpy 80.5 long gbp/jpy core position 1.2750. Pretty much flat until the Anti Christ has it's next FOMC meeting. FWIW there is a digital  option eur/usd expires 5-23 (1.4360) m15. So some spikes should be expected in that trade early next week. That will affect the eur/gbp trade. Which in turn filters down into the crosses.

Fri, 05/20/2011 - 21:43 | 1297270 Rodent Freikorps
Rodent Freikorps's picture

I'll study up of over the weekend and give it a try. If I lose money, you owe me a beer when you tour the states.


Fri, 05/20/2011 - 22:38 | 1297365 Yen Cross
Yen Cross's picture

 Fair enough. I don't want anything in return. I live in the States. I'm just overseas.

Sat, 05/21/2011 - 00:06 | 1297548 sgorem
sgorem's picture

yeah, go back fishin...................

Fri, 05/20/2011 - 21:31 | 1297252 mynhair
mynhair's picture


Fri, 05/20/2011 - 23:20 | 1297472 Yen Cross
Yen Cross's picture

  Nice reply.

Sat, 05/21/2011 - 01:27 | 1297694 knukles
knukles's picture

Those available on e-bays?

Fri, 05/20/2011 - 20:55 | 1297181 John117
Fri, 05/20/2011 - 20:19 | 1297080 AC_Doctor
AC_Doctor's picture

The sick spending bastards who drove this great nation to ruin. 

It only costs $5 to dig this out of their asses...

Fri, 05/20/2011 - 21:42 | 1297272 johnnynaps
johnnynaps's picture

rope = $3.99, lamp post = free, hanging banksters and corrupt politicians = priceless

Fri, 05/20/2011 - 20:22 | 1297088 lieto
lieto's picture

Let's see:

Government debt exponential.

Total debt exponential.

Monetary base up exponentially.

Banking system insolvent to the core.

PM's beaten down short term?

Might be about time to buy some more.

Remnds me of the commercial with the guy on the lawn mower," Can you help me please?".

Fri, 05/20/2011 - 20:24 | 1297096 brian0918
brian0918's picture

"Presented without commentary"


I thought that said "Presidents without competency"

Fri, 05/20/2011 - 20:25 | 1297099 PPagan
PPagan's picture

Not that I disagree about pigs in a trough, but: look at the curves. A straight line shows a constant rate of increase; a line concave upwards (or to the left) shows accelerating increase; and concave down a decelerating rate. Under Reagan, Bush I and Bush 2 the rate accelerates, under Clinton and Obama it decelerates.

Fri, 05/20/2011 - 20:28 | 1297110 Judge
Judge's picture

Clinton's spending was restrained by the Republican Congress.  Bush - didn't do enough  to control domestic spending, but was hammered by a recession left him by Clinton and 9/11...  Obama's will turn convex shortly.

Fri, 05/20/2011 - 20:35 | 1297126 pan-the-ist
pan-the-ist's picture

Bush II could have made tough choices, but chose not to.  When the spending under Obama doesn't turn convex, will you take it back?  I'll be here in 2016 waiting for you to admit that you are wrong.

Fri, 05/20/2011 - 20:55 | 1297168 NOTW777
NOTW777's picture

just say no to the soros koolaid

Fri, 05/20/2011 - 20:57 | 1297185 pan-the-ist
pan-the-ist's picture

Or don't actually say anything, like you.

Fri, 05/20/2011 - 21:19 | 1297222 RocketmanBob
RocketmanBob's picture

With all due respect, save for the last 5 months the Democrats have controlled both houses of Congress since 2006, as well as the Presidency for the last 2 years...

Bush's evils? Expanding the department of Ed instead of disestablishing it, and Medicare part D.  Also, too often he allowed the Democrat minorirty to dictate much greater domestic spending in order to get defense authorizations through.

Mr. Obama hasn't had to make any deals prior to the mid-term elections. He's spent what he chose to.

In all candor, the budget deficits for just the past 2 years total more than twice of what the entire war efforts in Iraq and Afghanistan have.

Just sayin'

Fri, 05/20/2011 - 21:41 | 1297267 pan-the-ist
pan-the-ist's picture

How do you explain the geometric growth of the debt under Bush?  Bush's evils - the Bush tax cuts.

Fri, 05/20/2011 - 22:13 | 1297273 Rodent Freikorps
Rodent Freikorps's picture

He explainded it quite well. Did you read it?

And further, this year they became the Obama tax cuts.

Fri, 05/20/2011 - 22:09 | 1297312 RocketmanBob
RocketmanBob's picture

Mr. Obama's on pace to exceed the sum total of the Bush deficits from 8 years in office before his first term is complete; even if Congress enacts the massive spending cuts they desire.

The evil Bush tax cuts benefitted the bottom 90% of taxpayers moreso than the top 10%. Truly I tell you, you could seize all of the income of folks making more than 100k/year and you'd not retire this years shortfall alone...

What Democrats won't admit is that in order to keep the levels of spending that they propose, they'll have to broaden the tax base, and raise taxes on the middle class.

There's no room at the top, and if you raise the corporate levies more of them will simply locate overseas. It's a real rock-and-a-hardplace situation.


Fri, 05/20/2011 - 23:13 | 1297457 pan-the-ist
pan-the-ist's picture

Have corperations actually relocated overseas?  I'm just curious, I know that's been threatened, but I haven't actually seen any evidence.  They probably gain more from the corporate welfare in this country then they would gain by leaving the country.  Tax the workers and give it to the corps so they promise to stay here? Fuck that.

Sat, 05/21/2011 - 00:12 | 1297556 RocketmanBob
RocketmanBob's picture

Many have moved their production facilities overseas; both to lower the transport and labor costs as well as escape US taxes on the revenue.

It would be better to do away with loopholes in the corporate code and reduce the rate in order to get them to voluntarily bring the profits home. Doing so would probably lead to greater revenues collected than are currently.

The same should be done with the personal tax codes as well.

No one is advocating taking money from ordinary citizens and give it to corporations.  But the "evil Bush tax rates" you spoke of are not slanted in the way you think.  The "breaks" for the top earners only account for 700 billion out of nearly 4 trillion dollars returned to the taxpayers by the adoption of those same rates.

Like I said upthread, to keep up the current baseline levels of spending the Democrats will have to raise income tax rates on folks making less than 100k/yr; because there are far more of them than the top earners...

They're just not going to admit it until after  the 2012 elections.

Sat, 05/21/2011 - 12:58 | 1298266 Ben Fleeced
Ben Fleeced's picture


Fri, 05/20/2011 - 20:39 | 1297135 Alasdair
Alasdair's picture

Clinton raised taxes without a single Republican vote.

Fri, 05/20/2011 - 20:55 | 1297178 Rodent Freikorps
Rodent Freikorps's picture

The R controlled house finally forced him to sign welfare reform on the third try.

He got lucky and rode the tech bubble.

Which failed before he left office.

Fri, 05/20/2011 - 21:01 | 1297188 pan-the-ist
pan-the-ist's picture

I seem to remember Bush giving out rebate checks... sounds to me like you need a history lesson.  Again, Bush could have made tough choices...

Fri, 05/20/2011 - 21:19 | 1297228 Yen Cross
Yen Cross's picture

 Bush was reluctant to bail out Detriot, and yes he TARPED things. Cash for clunkers ect..

  The T's that Obama has spent pale Bushes budget. This president is 2.5 years in and riding the fiscal SHIP right into Davie Jones (LOCKER) PIRATE liberal STYLE ARRRR!

Fri, 05/20/2011 - 21:26 | 1297240 Rodent Freikorps
Rodent Freikorps's picture

Bush the Younger was a false conservative. I do not defend him.

He and the Rs lost their way and they were punished by the base staying home which led to the disaster of Obama being elected with unstoppable majorities in the House and Senate.

And the US died. The rest is just the flailing of a snake after it has lost its head.

Fri, 05/20/2011 - 21:39 | 1297264 Yen Cross
Yen Cross's picture

 Ain't that the truth. Gingrich has foot in mouth disease, and all of the hopefulls have turned RED BELLY piranha!

Fri, 05/20/2011 - 23:28 | 1297483 pan-the-ist
pan-the-ist's picture

Them babtists is false Christians and so R the cathOliks.  The Jews on the other hand are perfect Christians since Christ was a Jew so that means that the Jews R R best friends.  (Even if they killed Christ because he pointed out they weren't being good Jews.)


Sat, 05/21/2011 - 10:08 | 1298028 sun tzu
sun tzu's picture

Don't you have a tree to worship?

Sat, 05/21/2011 - 10:04 | 1298025 sun tzu
sun tzu's picture

Yeah allowing people to keep the money they earned really is welfare. The money people earn really belongs to the government. We should be grateful for any of the crumbs they allow us to keep. /sarcasm

You leftards are ridiculously stupid.

Sat, 05/21/2011 - 10:21 | 1298052 InconvenientCou...
InconvenientCounterParty's picture

You can't be as stupid as your comments and avatar imply. It's a joke on ZH. Spread your wings and fly dodo.

Fri, 05/20/2011 - 20:27 | 1297100 Sean7k
Sean7k's picture

This debt is only the beginning. Saying that, the priority in anyone's life should be mitigation. 

One, party has nothing to do with it. Two, voting will never make a difference. Your leaders are hand chosen by a small group of Elites. Three, the only method they have of continuing to profit requires that the status quo is maintained. Four, taxation and the confiscation of entitlements are the only wealth the Elites have left to steal. Taxation has an upper limit. Entitlements have a nice upside, but could cause rebellion. They will be careful there.

Mitigation is a strategy that depends on your age and level of success. If you are just starting out or middle class, yet young enough to start over- I suggest leaving the country for better opportunities. Not as easy as it sounds, but with research, the right contacts and a valuable trade, it is doable.

Older and willing to live with what you have? Remain heavy in assets, especially those that cannot be taxed or where taxation is limited. Develop good community relationships and get involved in charity. People are much more willing to defend those that look after them- anyways, it's the right thing to do.

The Elites are smart. Their strategies are time tested. They understand human behavior. They own the welfare class. That leaves a 50/50 ratio on the battleground and they own the military and the law. 

Their weakness is a dependence on historical reaction, fiat currency, the law and their incredibly small numbers. Violence will only help them. It is in civil disobedience that the power to evolve can result. It is also where courage is most tested. 

Debt slavery is insidious. It wiles its' way into your lives, promising instant rewards and a convenient payment schedule. It is only when you no longer have the freedom to take time off, go fishing, have a date with your wife, a home to go home to, that it all begins to make sense. The heady excitement of a new card, the smile on the banker's face as he hands you a pre-approved letter of credit. 

Life is precious. Your family is precious. Your home is a bulwark against the rising storm. The most important things in life can be lost in a series of revelries, where immediate pleasure transcends the future pain. 

Fri, 05/20/2011 - 23:46 | 1297516 Blanche DuBois
Blanche DuBois's picture

Well stated...and thanks for the reminders!

Sat, 05/21/2011 - 00:44 | 1297617 DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture


Very well stated.  Very good suggestions as well.  You write a lot of excellent replies here at ZH.

+ $1500

Sat, 05/21/2011 - 02:12 | 1297736 Yen Cross
Yen Cross's picture

 Any thoughts RE: yuan revaluations and Ghost cities?

Fri, 05/20/2011 - 20:26 | 1297106 Judge
Judge's picture

That chart does a very poor job of showing who's responsible... It ignores the fact that Johnson created the "Great Society" with the social wefare net that has been ballooning - with automatic increases and greater coverage.  The Presidents have almost zero control voer that spending.  Reagan's budgets were all declared "DOA" by Tip O'Neil who never considered one of them, but immediately subsituted his own with greater spending....

It's really pretty simple when you break it down by which parts grow exponetionally when compared to GNP and it's not defense....  despite the wars.

Fri, 05/20/2011 - 20:46 | 1297145 NOTW777
NOTW777's picture

according to the chart 9-11 never happened and there was no war in afghanistan or iraq

Fri, 05/20/2011 - 20:54 | 1297166 pan-the-ist
pan-the-ist's picture

Iraq was unnecessary and an excuse to go on a spending spree.  We all know what the response to 911 should have been.

Sat, 05/21/2011 - 10:09 | 1298034 sun tzu
sun tzu's picture

Iraq was unnecessary and an excuse to go on a spending spree. 

Why is Obama continuing the unecessary war? I suppose the Libya kinetic action is necessary because your Messiah started it.


We all know what the response to 911 should have been.

Would you mind letting me in on what the 9/11 resposne should have been? Somewhere along the line, the world agreed on what it should have been, but nobody told me.

Sat, 05/21/2011 - 10:52 | 1298097 pan-the-ist
pan-the-ist's picture

They have told you, but not suprisingly, you dont listen.

Have we ever invaded a country and left without leaving an army behind?

Sat, 05/21/2011 - 12:11 | 1298113 Rodent Freikorps
Rodent Freikorps's picture


We left the Philippines simply because they asked us to.

Germany has only to ask.

I would support that.

Fri, 05/20/2011 - 22:00 | 1297303 tired1
tired1's picture

It seems that every President gets to do his own favorite little programs, which most often are damaging to this nation. The more serious threats evolve from the mandarins that infest DC. Presidents change but the DC phone book stays the same. Nothing can change until K St remains. Nothing is going to change.

Fri, 05/20/2011 - 20:33 | 1297122 RunningMan
RunningMan's picture

This is a lousy chart to kick the weekend off with. Seriously depressing.

Fri, 05/20/2011 - 20:43 | 1297137 Rodent Freikorps
Rodent Freikorps's picture

Buck up man. Every nation does this.

You are living history. Booyah!

Fri, 05/20/2011 - 22:17 | 1297327 knowless
knowless's picture

trolling at it's finest:


Fri, 05/20/2011 - 20:38 | 1297134 Hephasteus
Hephasteus's picture

So close the gold window. Turn into a paper trash weimar, zimbabwe banana republic.

Fri, 05/20/2011 - 20:43 | 1297138 NOTW777
NOTW777's picture

how can you make "no comment" when the graph omits one of the most impactful events in the last 100 years - they forgot 9-11

Fri, 05/20/2011 - 20:53 | 1297162 Derpin USA
Derpin USA's picture


Fri, 05/20/2011 - 20:55 | 1297173 NOTW777
NOTW777's picture

it seems like 60% of the country already forgot and 85% of ZHers -

it will take another lesson

Fri, 05/20/2011 - 21:00 | 1297191 pan-the-ist
pan-the-ist's picture

Are you making plans?  Seems like the administration is doing a damn good job on the Terror front.  I'll wait for an R to undermine it again to justify unlimited war spending.

Fri, 05/20/2011 - 21:04 | 1297200 Derpin USA
Derpin USA's picture

Obama has shown zero indication of reigning in defense spending and interventionism at the cost of the US taxpayer.

Fri, 05/20/2011 - 21:25 | 1297245 Rodent Freikorps
Rodent Freikorps's picture

He likes being King. The most dangerous kind of CinC.

Fri, 05/20/2011 - 21:20 | 1297224 gwar5
gwar5's picture

No so sure about the good job thing.

BHO has blown off all our allies; Become an apologist for terrorists; MB is taking over MENA with Obama's blessing; Americans are being murdered on American soil again immediately since BHOs inaguration, as the Taliban also marched within miles of Pakistan's capital; NORKs fired missles and Nukes; Iran is building missile launching pads in Venezuela.  

All of this is not the sign of a leader that is respected by the bad guys who could, or would, do anything to them. 

Fri, 05/20/2011 - 21:43 | 1297275 pan-the-ist
pan-the-ist's picture

Americans being murdered on American soil?  I'm confused, have the Chinese invaded?

Fri, 05/20/2011 - 22:30 | 1297354 Rodent Freikorps
Fri, 05/20/2011 - 23:19 | 1297463 pan-the-ist
pan-the-ist's picture

Seriously?  Didn't the columbine duo kill more Americans than that douchebag?  You have got to do better than that.

Sat, 05/21/2011 - 09:25 | 1297970 JW n FL
JW n FL's picture
by pan-the-ist
on Fri, 05/20/2011 - 23:19


Seriously?  Didn't the columbine duo kill more Americans than that douchebag?


It says a LOT! for getting low fast doesnt it! people are trained..

wait! Trained and Living the Training..


Trained and NOT! Living the Training..


Not Trained.

so all you fat fucks who are not running 5 miles a day.. well, you are not living your training!

Sat, 05/21/2011 - 10:17 | 1298042 sun tzu
sun tzu's picture

More Americans are murdered each month than on on 9/11. In your inbred leftard position, 9/11 was no big deal and there should be no war on terror. How can your Messiah be doing a damn good job on a war that shouldn't be fought?

Sat, 05/21/2011 - 12:57 | 1298111 JW n FL
JW n FL's picture
by sun tzu
on Sat, 05/21/2011 - 10:17

More Americans are murdered each month than on on 9/11. a; Ok?


In your inbred leftard position, 9/11 was no big deal and there should be no war on terror. a; You have inbred and leftard in the same sentence. thats backwards, your wanna be conservative, wanna be patriotic.. faux anger over controled demolition.. would lead me to believe.. any way. and as for the war on terror.. I thought your boy said "Mission Accomplished!"? are we still fighting the terrorists?


How can your Messiah be doing a damn good job on a war that shouldn't be fought? a; you are just mad that the rapture didnt sweep you away.. no worries it is not happening until 6pm eastern today.. not last night at midnight! dont forget to pack a bag!


If I may.. point out a couple of things..

1. You are the reason Men Rule the World.. your stupidity gives women a bad name Globally.

2. Get a fucking education you ignorant back woods daddy fucking cow!,or.r_gc.r_pw.&fp=65d2260741c8e199,or.r_gc.r_pw.&fp=65d2260741c8e199


when you read some and get off your daddy's lap.. come on back. but dont show up here talking to grown folks in that way woman. know your fucking place.

Fri, 05/20/2011 - 23:55 | 1297521 Hephasteus
Hephasteus's picture

What about the fort dixx fiasco.

That was the stupidest bunghole fucking fbi setup in the history of stupid fucking fbi tricks.

Their fucking cia handler kept pounding on them and pounding on them to attack the fort but they wouldn't. They sold them ak47's for dirt cheap and the guys bought some because the price was good.

They offered fucking claymores and rpg's to them and the guys just bought a few ak47's.

What a massive fuck up and sure sign that government doesn't give a shit about real harm or threat only manufacturing it to try to justify their insanity.

It's about as bad as the dickweeds pesterin a fucking 14 year old for years to become the "christmas tree bomber". Total frikkin insanity.

Fri, 05/20/2011 - 21:34 | 1297257 RocketmanBob
RocketmanBob's picture

Yes, the Obama administration has done a good job so far...

Building on the cumulative successes of his predecessor, and keeping in place all of the measures that candidate Obama demagogued; including increasing the panties-bunching drone strikes.

I wholeheartedly approve, and of him pulling the trigger on the mission to get ObL.

But that singular success doesn't vindicate, nor rehabilitate, and entire failed foreign policy.  The delicious irony is the initial crowing about their SMART POWER!, when in reality most of their initiatives have been characterized by either abject failure or complete ineptitude.

Iran? Syria? Egypt? Libya? China? The Honduran debacle? Trying to give away the store to the Russians on an unnecessary arms control treaty?

Or how about completely shelving the airborne laser program, halted just short of field-worthiness? Missile defense? I could go on...

I'll give him a pass on NoKo, since Bush did a pretty good job of screwing that pooch as well. 

No friend, narrow success abroad, that exposes his campaign pronouncements as empty dogma, or what you see as a successful domestic agenda doesn't excuse an utterly incompetent national defense strategy and a quixotic foreign policy.

With all due respect...

Fri, 05/20/2011 - 21:45 | 1297278 pan-the-ist
pan-the-ist's picture

I was speaking specifically about terror.

Sat, 05/21/2011 - 00:29 | 1297582 High Plains Drifter
High Plains Drifter's picture

the only terrorist in this world are governments.....

Fri, 05/20/2011 - 21:48 | 1297280 blunderdog
blunderdog's picture

Well, consider how low the bar is set on the "Terror" front.

If some dumbass sits in the White House and we DON'T get another 9/11, that's "pretty good" on the Terror front.  Heh.

That's the same reason Dubya was such a success against terror.  Sure, all kinds of stuff went to shit, but there was no 9/11.  He kept us safe.  Obama's doing just as well.

Fri, 05/20/2011 - 22:36 | 1297362 Rodent Freikorps
Rodent Freikorps's picture

Did you ever get the idea some folks won't admit terrorism exists until someone plants an IED up their ass?


Fri, 05/20/2011 - 23:06 | 1297437 Yen Cross
Yen Cross's picture

 Man you are so right! Just like (DSK) In the morning, on toast. Nice Job!

Fri, 05/20/2011 - 23:17 | 1297468 pan-the-ist
pan-the-ist's picture

Do you always check under your car before you go for a drive?

Fri, 05/20/2011 - 23:28 | 1297478 Rodent Freikorps
Rodent Freikorps's picture

Only for about six months after I've pissed off the drug gangs.

Fri, 05/20/2011 - 23:33 | 1297486 pan-the-ist
pan-the-ist's picture


Fri, 05/20/2011 - 23:51 | 1297527 Yen Cross
Yen Cross's picture

Do Y?

Fri, 05/20/2011 - 23:57 | 1297534 Yen Cross
Yen Cross's picture

 Pan the First? Typical meltdown. The French have ZERO control over their country.


  The French are next on club (IMF's) ECB swizzle stick!

Sat, 05/21/2011 - 10:14 | 1298037 sun tzu
sun tzu's picture

Obongo is doing a damn good job of blowing up innocents in Pakistan and Libya. Do you put lipstick on before kissing Obama's ass? 

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