U.S. Government Used COMMUNIST Torture Techniques Specifically Designed to Produce FALSE Confessions

George Washington's picture

As I noted in 2009:

Senator Levin, in commenting on the Senate Armed Services Committee report on torture declassified today, drops the following bombshell:

last week's release of the Department of Justice Office of Legal
Counsel (OLC) opinions, it is now widely known that Bush administration
officials distorted Survival Evasion Resistance and Escape "SERE"
training - a legitimate program used by the military to train our troops
to resist abusive enemy interrogations - by authorizing abusive
techniques from SERE for use in detainee interrogations. Those decisions
conveyed the message that abusive treatment was appropriate for
detainees in U.S. custody. They were also an affront to the values
articulated by General Petraeus.


In SERE training, U.S. troops
are briefly exposed, in a highly controlled setting, to abusive
interrogation techniques used by enemies that refuse to follow the
Geneva Conventions. The techniques are
based on tactics used by Chinese Communists against American soldiers
during the Korean War for the purpose of eliciting
false confessions for propaganda purposes.
Techniques used in SERE training include stripping trainees of their
clothing, placing them in stress positions, putting hoods over their
heads, subjecting them to face and body slaps, depriving them of sleep,
throwing them up against a wall, confining them in a small box,
treating them like animals, subjecting them to loud music and flashing
lights, and exposing them to extreme temperatures. Until recently, the
Navy SERE school also used waterboarding. The purpose of the SERE
program is to provide U.S. troops who might be captured a taste of the
treatment they might face so that they might have a better chance of
surviving captivity and resisting abusive and coercive interrogations.

Levin then documents that SERE techniques were deployed as part of an
official policy on detainees, and that SERE instructors helped to
implement the interrogation programs.


The senior Army SERE
psychologist warned in 2002 against using SERE training techniques
during interrogations in an email to personnel at Guantanamo Bay,

[T]he use of physical pressures brings with it
a large number of potential negative side effects... When individuals
are gradually exposed to increasing levels of discomfort, it is more
common for them to resist harder... If individuals are put under enough
discomfort, i.e. pain, they will eventually do whatever it takes to
stop the pain. This will increase the amount of information they tell
the interrogator, but it does not mean the information is accurate. In
fact, it usually decreases the
reliability of the information because the person will say whatever he
believes will stop the pain... Bottom line: the likelihood that the use
of physical pressures will increase the delivery of accurate
information from a detainee is very low
. The likelihood that the
use of physical pressures will increase the level of resistance in a
detainee is very high... (p. 53).

I also pointed out:

McClatchy fills in some of the details:

senior U.S. intelligence official familiar with the interrogation
issue said that Cheney and former Defense Secretary Donald H. Rumsfeld
demanded that the interrogators find evidence of al Qaida-Iraq


For most of 2002 and into 2003, Cheney and Rumsfeld,
especially, were also demanding proof of the links between al Qaida
and Iraq that (former Iraqi exile leader Ahmed) Chalabi and others had
told them were there."


It was during this period that CIA
interrogators waterboarded two alleged top al Qaida detainees
repeatedly — Abu Zubaydah at least 83 times in August 2002 and Khalid
Sheik Muhammed 183 times in March 2003 — according to a newly released
Justice Department document...


When people kept coming up empty,
they were told by Cheney's and Rumsfeld's people to push harder," he
continued."Cheney's and Rumsfeld's people were told repeatedly, by CIA .
. . and by others, that there wasn't any reliable intelligence that
pointed to operational ties between bin Laden and Saddam . . .


former U.S. Army psychiatrist, Maj. Charles Burney, told Army
investigators in 2006 that interrogators at the Guantanamo Bay, Cuba,
detention facility were under "pressure" to produce evidence of ties
between al Qaida and Iraq.


"While we were there a large part of
the time we were focused on trying to establish a link between al Qaida
and Iraq and we were not successful in establishing a link between al
Qaida and Iraq," Burney told staff of the Army Inspector General. "The
more frustrated people got in not being able to establish that link . .
. there was more and more pressure to resort to measures that might
produce more immediate results."


"I think it's obvious that the
administration was scrambling then to try to find a connection, a link
(between al Qaida and Iraq)," [Senator] Levin said in a conference call
with reporters. "They made out links where they didn't exist."


recalled Cheney's assertions that a senior Iraqi intelligence officer
had met Mohammad Atta, the leader of the 9/11 hijackers, in the Czech
Republic capital of Prague just months before the attacks on the World
Trade Center and the Pentagon.


The FBI and CIA found that no such meeting occurred.


other words, top Bush administration officials not only knowingly lied
about a non-existent connection between Al Qaida and Iraq, but they
pushed and insisted that interrogators use special torture methods aimed
at extracting false confessions to attempt to create such a false

Writing about this today, Paul Krugman says:

say this slowly: the Bush administration wanted to use 9/11 as a
pretext to invade Iraq, even though Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11. So
it tortured people to make them confess to the nonexistent link.

There’s a word for this: it’s evil.

The Washington Post reported the same year:

what you've seen on TV, torture is really only good at one thing:
eliciting false confessions. Indeed, Bush-era torture techniques, we
now know, were cold-bloodedly modeled after methods used by Chinese
Communists to extract confessions from captured U.S. servicemen that
they could then use for propaganda during the Korean War.

So as
shocking as the latest revelation in a new Senate Armed Services
Committee report may be, it actually makes sense -- in a nauseating way.
The White House started pushing the use of torture not when faced
with a "ticking time bomb" scenario from terrorists, but when officials
in 2002 were desperately casting about for ways to tie Iraq to the
9/11 attacks -- in order to strengthen their public case for invading a
country that had nothing to do with 9/11 at all.


Trowbridge writes for the Detroit News: "Senior Bush administration
officials pushed for the use of abusive interrogations of terrorism
detainees in part to seek evidence to justify the invasion of Iraq,
according to newly declassified information discovered in a
congressional probe.

I wrote last month:

of the two senior instructors from the Air Force team which taught
U.S. servicemen how to resist torture by foreign governments when used
to extract false confessions has blown the whistle on the true purpose behind the U.S. torture program.


Truth Out reported yesterday:

Jessen's notes were provided to Truthout by retired Air Force Capt. Michael

Kearns, a "master" SERE instructor and decorated veteran who has previously held high-ranking positions within the Air Force Headquarters Staff and Department of Defense (DoD).


and his boss, Roger Aldrich, the head of the Air Force Intelligence's
Special Survial Training Program (SSTP), based out of Fairchild Air
Force Base in Spokane, Washington, hired Jessen in May 1989. Kearns,
who was head of operations at SSTP and trained thousands of service
members, said

Jessen was brought into the program due to an increase in
the number of new SERE courses being taught and "the fact that it
required psychological expertise on hand in a full-time basis."


then the chief of Psychology Service at the US Air Force Survival
School, immediately started to work directly with Kearns on "a new
course for special mission units (SMUs), which had as its goal
individual resistance to terrorist exploitation."


course, known as SV-91, was developed for the Survival Evasion
Resistance Escape (SERE) branch of the US Air Force Intelligence
Agency, which acted as the Executive Agent Action Office for the Joint
Chiefs of Staff. Jessen's notes formed the basis for one part of
SV-91, "Psychological Aspects of Detention."




was one of only two officers within DoD qualified to teach all three
SERE-related courses within SSTP on a worldwide basis, according to a
copy of a 1989 letter written Aldrich, who nominated him officer of the year.




Jessen notes clearly state the totality of what was being
reverse-engineered - not just 'enhanced interrogation techniques,' but
an entire program of exploitation of prisoners using torture as a
central pillar," he said. "What I think is important to note, as an
ex-SERE Resistance to Interrogation instructor, is the focus of Jessen's
instruction. It is exploitation, not specifically interrogation. And
this is not a picayune issue, because if one were to
'reverse-engineer' a course on resistance to exploitation then what
one would get is a plan to exploit prisoners, not interrogate
them. The CIA/DoD torture program appears to have the same goals as
the terrorist organizations or enemy governments for which SV-91 and
other SERE courses were created to defend against: the full
exploitation of the prisoner in his intelligence, propaganda,
or other needs held by the detaining power, such as the recruitment
of informers and double agents. Those aspects of the US detainee
program have not generally been discussed as part of the torture story
in the American press."




wrote that cooperation is the "end goal" of the detainer, who wants
the detainee "to see that [the detainer] has 'total' control of you
because you are completely dependent on him, and thus you must comply
with his wishes. Therefore, it is absolutely inevitable that you must
cooperate with him in some way (propaganda, special favors, confession, etc.)."




said, based on what he has read in declassified government documents
and news reports about the role SERE played in the Bush
administration's torture program, Jessen clearly "reverse-engineered" his lesson plan and used resistance methods to abuse "war on terror" detainees.

we have the two main Air Force insiders concerning the genesis of the
torture program confirming - with original notes - that the whole
purpose of the torture program was to extract false confessions.

Indeed, it worked ... producing false confessions, and delaying by years our ability to obtain actionable intelligence:

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Alcoholic Native American's picture

The air force is full of sadistic Christ tard fascist.

JR's picture

"There is no surer sign of decay in a country than to see the rites of religion held in contempt." -- Niccolo Machiavelli

falak pema's picture

Coming from the man who showed up the corruption of the Borgias that is very special..The man who announced God/religion was dead as political force, and that 'reason of state' was born to guide princes in their political options, has regrets that man has lost his absolute moral scale of values provided by religion in this paradigm change.

Very appropriate about the spiritual vacuum left in the modern world...Fortunately, the world moved on to the age of Enlightenment...

JR's picture

Machiavelli’s advice to the rulers was that if you criticize or come down on religion, you’ll lose control of your country; which was true then and true today.  Religion, in particular the Christian religion, is the pursuit of truth - the hope of better things; the faith in goodness.  The religions that begin to depart from the pursuit of truth or to be used for selfish purposes are not religions – that is using religion as an excuse.  For example, Pastor Hagee’s visits and support of Israel would hardly be considered Christianity.

Machiavelli would have said to Bill Clinton, carry your Bible around with you, quote your Bible once in awhile and go to church – that’s the better way.   A candidate that says religion is a crutch, Machiavelli would say,  is not going to get elected.

falak pema's picture

well since the enlightenment aren't we post "religion in politics" age in the DC?

dexter_morgan's picture

The thing I find funny is........how many of these shocked and appalled posters wouldn't mind seeing these techniques used on the Bernank, or little Timmy, or any of the other banksters..............

Rynak's picture

Actually, there would be a difference.

Considering the whole "owning oneself"-thing, torture with the goal of forcing someone else to say or do something, which he does not want, is beyond mindrape.... it's an attempt to own someone elses consciousness (this is why any selfdeclared "libertarian" who agrees with torture for the sake of forcing someone else to do something, by definition cannot be a libertarian).

Torture "for fun/revenge" is simply cruel.

cranky-old-geezer's picture

So what's your point GW?

Oh, that's right, you have no point, just like you never have a point. 

You post long article after long article about evils that aren't going to change, whining and bitching about stuff that isn't going to change, that none of us can do anything about, wasting ZH bandwidth, all to promote yourself, when there's nothing to promote, just a whining windbag with a word processor.

No, ZH doesn't get a dime from me till TD gets rid of dead useless weight like you.

MarkS's picture

Cranky, I'm with you on the first 2 lines.  Seriously.  GW, what is your point?  Hey, when we think we can get actionable intelligence to save peoples lives - torture away I say.  That doesn't mean torturing everybody for any reason.  But hey, terrorists attack unarmed civilians - non-combatants, women and children, old people, the infirmed, hell they even send their metally retarded wired with bombs to blow those non-combatants up!

So, I have little patience for the 'don't torture' argument.  In fact, I've been waterboarded - its part of SERE training and every military pilot expects that he is going to be tortured if captured (that goes for all of the other guys that get captured too but, they don't get the pleasure of SERE training - which sucks) - and yes it is torture in the sense that it is using physical pain and fear to coerce you into giving infomation beyond name, rank, serial number and date of birth. I lasted damn near 30 seconds before I would have told my 'instructors' anything they wanted to know.  Then about 5 minutes (maybe 10 minutes) afterward, your fine - if you don't suffocate and drown which almost never happens.  I despise the fraternity variety crap though - bloody panties on the head, sodomy, etc. - that is done for fun and we need to get those guys out of uniform and into hospitals where they belong.

I'm against tortuing captured miliary personnel.  But, I really don't give a shit about torturing terrorists - or putting them on trial.  While I don't care much for the policies of the current President, I'll give him a  +1 for double tapping OBL!!!

As to whether that increases the recruiting for terrorists, there are many who say so and I don't doubt that it could be true but until we can quantify it who really knows. 

Drnumbers's picture

This country is full of a bunch of spoiled pussy children.  Can't wait until they thin the herd.

Population Bubble's picture

Hopefully if you ever get involved in herd thinning I will be in the herd you try to thin. I would love an excuse to take you out.

Drnumbers's picture

If you are talking to me, don't worry, I will not be around any bath houses and other areas you frequent...freaking retard!  In the mean time, you go ahead and follow the Obama masses to the gas chamber.  This is great you run away from me to your own demise...talk about sheep.

Population Bubble's picture

Lol, people who truly value freedom condemn torture.  You are a short-sighted idiot and I would love to be the mercenary for Nature in selecting you to leave the gene pool.  When TSHTF you let me know where you are and I'll run straight for you.  And I'll be armed.

Drnumbers's picture

Wow you have a gun.  Must be the only half male outside starbucks who doesn't get giddy when saying "gun".

Nobody condones torture, but what I don't condone is fairy tale thinking that suggests that some dogmatic thinking is going to make the world a bowl of cherries.  In this case, we are not using tortured testimony to lock people up.  We are letting people do thier job, get in the gutter, and attempt to keep us safe. 

Freedom has never been and is not free.  Maybe the proletariat you dream about tells you that all fairness can be restored and that all ill will was created by some guy who had a bigger dick and showed it. 

With such a handle as Population Bubble, you must be so cool in your pillow fight club.  Really dude, why don't you rattle off some crap about global warming and all.  You might as well dive in head first.

And when I see your pink vw beattle coming down the block, I will know you are coming and take cover, then as you round the corner, a 4 X 4 will leave tread marks on your rainbow sticker.

Good luck applying for gene pool supervisor, unfortuntately, gargling seemen does not qualify one as a gene expert, maybe a connosuer, but not an expert.

Alcoholic Native American's picture

I agree.  I can't wait untill lots and lots of americans die.

Drnumbers's picture

If supposed torture creates more terrorists (which according to many of the conspiracy clowns does not exist anyway), then let me follow, we are forcing non terrorists to admit they are terrorists so they can create more?

The fact that this crap is debated, shows us that the enemy is winning.  The freaking president of the national hair splitter and horse beating society.  Congratulations George Washington.  If only we could just love more people and accept them, then everything would be fine.  Never mind the fact that extracting any info to save innocent people is the sole purpose, not getting some douchebag to admit he was in the parking lot at the 711 at the time somebody stole a pack of gum.

You over intellectuals confound me.  Your greatest weapon is your pen/keyboard and your fertile mind of conspiracy and finger pointing.  If you were in my house and you were to try to harm or knew of where a child of mine was in danger, all is game in you spitting out the truth.

The irony in it all is this holier than thou mindset that these are not our values or that we are somehow better than this has one major flaw, that is the assumption that somehow being a candy ass and your faith that reason is subscribed by your enemy.  Get a clue.  Like morons in the main stream media, who think they are front line soldiers for the cause of liberalism, when push comes to shove, they will end up in the same gas chamber as all the idiots who listened to them.  USEFUL IDIOTS!!!

George Washington's picture

Are you calling these top American military and intelligence officials unpatriotic?

  • The head of all U.S. intelligence said:
    "The bottom line is these techniques have hurt our image around the world," [Director of National Intelligence Dennis] Blair said in the statement. "The damage they have done to our interests far outweighed whatever benefit they gave us and they are not essential to our national security."
  • A top counter-terrorism expert says torture increases the risk of terrorism (and see this).
  • One of the top military interrogators said that torture by Americans of innocent Iraqis is the main reason that foreign fighters started fighting against Americans in Iraq in the first place (and see this).
  • Former counter-terrorism czar Richard A. Clarke says that America's indefinite detention without trial and abuse of prisoners is a leading Al Qaeda recruiting tool
  • A 30-year veteran of CIA’s operations directorate who rose to the most senior managerial ranks, says:
    "This is not just because the old hands overwhelmingly believe that torture doesn’t work — it doesn’t — but also because they know that torture creates more terrorists and fosters more acts of terror than it could possibly neutralize.”

"The administration’s policies concerning [torture] and the resulting controversies ... strengthened the hand of our enemies."
  • The reporter who broke Iran-Contra and other stories says that torture actually helped Al Qaeda, by giving false leads to the U.S. which diverted its military, intelligence and economic resources into wild goose chases
Drnumbers's picture

Do you know how stupid that sounds, that torture, or gitmo create terrorists?  Are you freaking serious.  Anyone dumb enough to sign up to a predetermined fate is an idiot.  If this draws out the dumbasses in a society, than a thank you is in order.  We have Facebook and DAncing with  the stars.  Repressive societies and internal threat and torture creat terrorists.  You may not get this, but just like the gang problem in poor communities, threats to those who may snitch motivates people into and staying in lifestyles.  Just like many Americans, myself included, get frustrated that Muslims are not vocal against terrorists and other bad muslims.  You know why they don't speak out...fear.  They have no fear of us.  They fear their own guys cutting their heads off, raping their daughters.  But you go ahead and claim that some supposed/real torture activity is the real rallying cry. 

I could give a crap about what Clark or any gov official says, I do not have any faith in them.  I have faith in human nature.  Torture is all subjective.  Castrating and beheading William Wallace because he will not declare himself a subject of the King is torture, getting him or anyone who may have info that may save innocent lives, different story. These clows all come out piping the company line and stating the obvious to appease the whiny bed wetters.  The same bedwetters would curse the same people out if something happened to them. 

I feel like I am debating Obama.  Freaking morons.  Move to fantasy land at Disneyworld!

dexter_morgan's picture

"You over intellectuals confound me. " Can't mean GW in that statement..........

dexter_morgan's picture

You kind of had me open to this until you brought Krugman in to it. Then all credibility was flushed down the shithole.

dexter_morgan's picture

haha - junk away, but you know in your heart of hearts Krugman couldn't find his ass with both hands......

Rynak's picture

I don't know about others, but i junked your post, because you are dismissing an entire article on a serious topic, simply because it contains a quote by someone which you consider mistrustworthy. Commenting on an article by metaphorically saying "Oh, it among other things also quotes an idiot, so the article is shit", is junk. And to be honest, everyone in this thread, who discards the data and arguments simply because of who PRESENTS the data of OTHERS, disgusts me. But then again, i've seen people put ideology over even more serious issues than torture.

As for my opinion on the article - would be a great article, if it weren't, that GW ALSO hijacks this topic for ideological rethorics. Strangely, i'm not sure if that makes him deserve such comments, or not..... my head hurts.

dexter_morgan's picture

Wasn't dismissing the topic as much as pointing out at least one contributor is an asshat with ulterior motives and that casts apersions on the whole tenor of the article. Not to mention that another of the guys, if you read through all the links, is doing a CYA for himself, and you see it is not the most balanced presentation on the serious topic.


Rynak's picture

It would be helpful to other readers and members, if in such a case you point out exactly what you just wrote, else it can result in big misunderstandings, just as here.


NotApplicable's picture

Serious topic? Are you kidding?

Torture = serious topic.

Political story concerning the value (or lack of it) of torture results = Deck chair maintenance on the Titanic.

That someone would waste a second of time on this subject (or any other political "solution") displays their immaturity as well as their refusal to recognize that ALL of today's political solutions are tomorrow's political problems.

Anyone who is apathetic enough to vote has no business writing anything that should be taken seriously. The problem, in its entirety, lies in the fallacy of representative government. As long as you support the evil of enslaving one man under another, you are  evil yourself. Yet instead of looking at the man in the mirror, all you can do is to blame others.

Rynak's picture

Err, you may want to read a post entirely before replying.

NotApplicable's picture

What? Your post or GW's?

If GW's, well, I don't consider anything in his article to be serious at all (it's no different than listening to the storyline of professional wrestlers). Now if it refers to your post,  what is in the remainder of it is wholly immaterial to my comment.

Like I said above, torture is a serious subject, but this article is about the politics of torture. What GW doesn't seem to understand is that it is people like him that legitimize the apparatus of torture, while believing they can prevent it from torturing (pure insanity, as the apparatus exists for a reason).

In other words, his actions are no different than Einstein's work in convincing FDR to build the nuclear war-state. Or Oppenheimer's direct work to create the weapon capable of ending life on Earth.

'Now I am become Death, the destroyer of worlds.'

Legitimizing the actions of the criminal cartel d.b.a. "government" is a dangerous proposition, as it enables them pillage and plunder without accountability. This is the serious subject GW needs to tackle, but (like most voters) I doubt he wants to understand his culpability.

Instead, as I said earlier, he would rather blame others (bogeyman), serving the elite as yet another useful idiot.

Rynak's picture

I meant my post, especially the second paragraph. I make it quite clear, that i consider putting ideology over things like torture stupid - sooo, the whole political/ideological aspect, was thrown out of the window by my anyways.

What remains, is supposed info about HOW the US applied torture, and FOR WHAT PURPOSE.

I think we can both agree, that to which lengths the US used torture, certainly matters, right? After all, if in your opinion torture is bad, then the more the worse, right?

Okay, now the second thing..... would you consider info about political deception something that matters? Okay, nevermind, that was just a rethorical question. Of course you do.

Well, if the answer to both is that they do matter, then combining both aspects.... torturing for the purpose of producing political desinformation, certainly is "serious", isn't it?

NotApplicable's picture

Agreed on the first, unless the argument is used to determine an allowable level of torture, then I'd say it's silliness. (I consider moral relativism to be a completely incoherent ideology. It's pragmatism, pure and simple)

As for your second (non-rhetorical) question, no, as "political deception" is redundant concept. All politics is deceptive by nature as people do not seek to be coerced. Instead they are first deceived, then coercion is applied to get them to accept a solution.

As for your conclusion, well, it still misses my point. Yes, torture itself is a serious subject. But by writing this article, the whole subject sinks to the level of the DC circus. As I said before, he tries to support the apparatus of torture, while trying to prevent torture. I find this position to be highly immoral, as he is using torture to score political points, THUS HE IS GETTING VALUE FROM THE VERY TORTURE HIMSELF!

I find this, in addition to his evil actions of voting to be unconscionable, yet he tries to come off as a moral crusader. Problem is, until he addresses this incoherency between his actions and his beliefs, he is a large part of the problem.

This is the disease known as the decaying American Empire.

Xennady's picture

There's that "confession" word again. This ain't the stalinist show trials designed to produce confessions to justify a bullet in the head.

It's intended to produce actionable intelligence that can be verified true or false.

Let me try to teach you the difference. Futile I know, but still I try.

A confession is an end result in itself. It's game over man nuke it from orbit.

Actionable intelligence is terrorist X living at address Y has explosives intended to be used at site Z. You can check that and see if it's true. If it ain't- no good. Soggy terrorist coming up!

SilverFiend's picture

For all of the articles on this subject that have come from GW you would think that the U.S. has tortured thousands of people.  No,  they waterboarded three known terrorists.  Yes that is correct three people.  States such as China,  Iran,  and North Korea do far worse to their own citizens.  While I abhor these techniques,  how about a little context?  More children are physically abused every day than were ever waterboarded.  I am waiting for the author to showcase his talents by spotlighting the far more brutal regimes around the world if his true motivation is a repulsion to torture and simply not attacking the U.S.


ABC news states only 3 people waterboarded.

Population Bubble's picture

If you let your government torture anyone then some time in the future you and yours will fear for being tortured yourself.  This is how it has always been.

drB's picture

Three people waterboarded is three too much. Also, McCain who was himself waterboarded in Vietnam states that it IS torture.

Greta: Is waterboarding torture or enhanced interrogation techniques, what words do we use on this?

McCain: It's torture. It's in violation of the Geneva Conventions of the international agreement on torture treaty...singed during the Reagan administration. It goes all the way back to the Spanish Inquisition. It's not a new technique and it is certainly torture.

And if you compare abused children to waterboarding..then those who waterboard and their supervisors should be prosecuted, just as child molesters are.

Xennady's picture

Meanwhile, back in the real world, every single American from the youngest fetus- like the unnamed baby of Francheska Velez, a victim of Majoe Hasan- to the oldest retiree- like Ottilie Lundgren, killed by anthrax- is at risk of murder from the members of the religion of peace.

Gosh. And certain Americans aren't worried about that- nope. They're worried that terrorists are made uncomfortable while getting questioned. FAIL.

drB's picture

You fail to address any issues raised and only spout neocon propaganda. Additionally, you ascribe to people who disagree with you words they never said. I am not saying that Islam is the religion of peace, and, I believe, neither does GW. I am not saying that Americans are not at danger from radical Islam followers. What I am saying is that if US tortures people for WHATEVER reason then we are sinking to the level of radical islamists. A simpler and perhaps more fair solution would be to get the hell out of Middle East, allow people there do whatever they want, even if it includes killing each other, and stop political correctness here (for example, do not allow people from countries of 9-11 attackers immigrate into US; and do not take people like Major Hassan into army!!!). However, torture is WRONG and people who condone it sink to the level of those Islamists themselves.

P.S. Christianity is also not a religion of peace, see Bosnia or N. Ireland.

Alcoholic Native American's picture

That's why we need more ramdom police checkpoints with anthrax sniffing dogs.

Get it through your minds people, the terrorist want to kill you.

web bot's picture

So now that Krugman has failed as a credible economist... he's now resorting to waterboarding the general public with his comments.

nmewn's picture

Munch munch munch.

Just sit back...have some of my popcorn and enjoy the show, the reptilian shape shifters are up next ;-)

High Plains Drifter's picture

its hump day. are you hitting the crown and coke?  have another snort. you can see shapes shifting then.....

nmewn's picture

Beer tonight...I got a doctors appointment tomorrow, gonna show him what a good patient I am.

But I am startin to see some "progressives" kinda bummed out on the hopey changey thingy...I think its sumpin to do with flat screen TV's are not teleporting into everyones living room, gas tanks aren't miraculously being filled at night while they sleep, kitchen remodeling jobs aren't being provided by government...but on the bright side, the oceans did recede and cash for clunkers got all the Obama bumper stickers off the road...LOL.

Edit...there's not many people that know I drink crown & coke...hmmm ;-)

treemagnet's picture

You can find just as many experts who will swear up and down enhanced methods work.  Congrats!  You wrote an awesome piece for some high school kids term paper aimed at appeasing some uber socialist tenured type hell bent on world peace. 

Truth?  I'll tell you what works, booze.  As in "yes dear, your ass looks HUGE in those pants..." <Silence On>......

treemagnet's picture

Virtually every expert not working for Cheney....sooo, that leaves virtually every expert working for Obama?  Either way, so what.  Torture, war, whatever - the endgame is the same when words don't change anything.  When its "go time" the rule book is forgotten only to dusted off later when the "all is well" sign is lit.  Waterboarding is not torture.  And before you start your inevitable rebuttal, why is okay then to drop bombs on those you want to protect from torture?  Nobody's dropped more from UAV's then Obama, how 'bout the collateral damage.  So kill 'em all, and then what with the rest - grant them rights?  We meant to kill you, but since we didn't, heres your "three hots and cot"?   You're logic is flawed, it only works in a vacuum.  Its way to dynamic of a topic to take chapter by chapter.

SilverFiend's picture

I love when GW links his own blog as if that is unbiased evidence.

George Washington's picture

There are things called "links" on the "World Wide Web" portion of the "Internet". If one clicks through these "links", one can go to the original source material in the Beloved (Chairmanistan-Sanctioned) Mainstream Press...

Cow's picture

Aren't you the guy that voted for Obama? and then you want someone to take you seriously?