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US Mint Runs Out Of Buffalo Gold Coins, Will Not Restock

Tyler Durden's picture


In what appears to be a beginning of the rerun from late April, when mints all around the world were running out of bullion and dealers had no coins in inventory, the US Mint has announced it has run out of one ounce Gold Buffalo coins: "The United States Mint has depleted its inventory of 2010
American Buffalo One Ounce Gold Bullion Coins." And even though one can't eat the gold coins, this is happening as gold is touching daily fresh record prices. Oddly enough, as Reuters reports: "The mint said it will not stock more of the 1-ounce,
24-karat American Buffalo bullion coins." Keeping in mind that the Buffalo is "among the world's purest gold
coins in terms of the fineness of the metal they contain" one wonders just how heavy the physical depletion of ultra pure gold must be for the mint to only stock "more diluted" versions of gold bullion.

From Reuters:

The U.S. Mint has run out of a type of highly pure gold coin it had been selling amid record high prices of gold.

The mint said it will not stock more of the 1-ounce, 24-karat American Buffalo bullion coins.

"The United States Mint has depleted its inventory of 2010 American Buffalo One Ounce Gold Bullion Coins," the Mint said in a statement, seen by Reuters on Monday.

Officials at the Mint could not immediately be reached for comment.

Gold prices have hit record highs over the last two weeks, breaching $1,300 an ounce, as investors bought into the precious metal on global economic health worries and possibilities of more U.S. stimulus programs that could weaken the U.S. dollar.

This year alone, gold prices have risen more than 18 percent. Fund managers and industry experts think the rally has further to run in the longer term as gold provides a hedge against inflation amid expectations that central banks worldwide could resort to more monetary easing to support their economies.

Most importantly, the US Buffalo is actually priced about 20% over spot, and was last sold for $1,560. And even this massive premium over "NAV" has not stopped the flood of retail buying. Either this, or the mint has been order to redirect all physical holdings of ultra pure gold into the vaults of LBMA dealers for physical sequestration. Our money is on the latter, now that there is a major run on physical gold both in retail demand, in ETFs and in virtually every other market. We expect to see more global gold dealers to announce inventory depletions shortly.

h/t Mark McHugh


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Wed, 09/29/2010 - 10:11 | 612419 Temporalist
Temporalist's picture

I am sure Ron Paul will have something to say about this.

Wed, 09/29/2010 - 10:27 | 612459 Careless Whisper
Careless Whisper's picture

he already has a plan to audit the cobwebs in fort knox.

Wed, 09/29/2010 - 10:46 | 612506 JLee2027
JLee2027's picture

Ahhh...rumors w/o evidence. The Gold is there, until proven otherwise. 

Wed, 09/29/2010 - 11:16 | 612567 GoldSilverDoc
GoldSilverDoc's picture

Ahhh.... the amazing brainwashing that has occurred among the populace, to convince them to accept the word of "authority".  And obviously it worked on you.  

Why is it not "the Gold is NOT there, until proven otherwise"?

Wed, 09/29/2010 - 12:15 | 612747 JLee2027
JLee2027's picture
Because it's not. Period.
Wed, 09/29/2010 - 13:04 | 612897 tamboo
Wed, 09/29/2010 - 18:40 | 613917 e_goldstein
e_goldstein's picture

i wonder if tungsten broke the buffalo dies.


Wed, 09/29/2010 - 13:04 | 612898 Womb Service
Womb Service's picture

That is an intellectually bankrupt position to take. Since there hasn't been an audit since the 1950's, the onus is clearly on your employers to demonstrate that the Gold is indeed there.

Wed, 09/29/2010 - 15:01 | 613200 akak
akak's picture

Apparently, when all of us were reading the "Question Authority" graffitti and bumper stickers in the 1970s and (early) 1980s, JLee was somehow reading it all as "Trust Authority".

ALWAYS assume that authorities lie, cheat, steal, murder and conspire against the average citizen ---- unless proven otherwise.  History supports this.

Wed, 09/29/2010 - 17:01 | 613602 JLee2027
JLee2027's picture

ALWAYS assume that authorities lie, cheat, steal, murder and conspire against the average citizen ---- unless proven otherwise.  History supports this.

We'll have our answer soon enough akak. Until then, the Gold is there.

Wed, 09/29/2010 - 20:01 | 614108 nmewn
nmewn's picture

In what purity has always been the question.

Now taking gentlemens bets ;-)

Wed, 09/29/2010 - 20:14 | 614139 WaterWings
WaterWings's picture

Tungsten nougat with flavorful spots of rust.

Akak, FTW.

Wed, 09/29/2010 - 20:55 | 614233 nmewn
nmewn's picture

Yeah that 9k Russian story had some traction didn't it.

Here's a good one, somewhat related to what's mine is mine and is no business to anyone but me & mine...afterall, it has been taxed once earning;

"The proposal would require depository-institution banks that conduct cross-border transactions to report international financial transactions of all sizes. Certain money-service businesses, such as Western Union /quotes/comstock/13*!wu/quotes/nls/wu (WU 17.50, +0.10, +0.58%) , would be required to report international transactions equal to or in excess of $1,000.

Currently, banks and money-service firms that conduct cross-border transactions are required to keep records for transactions at $3,000 or more."

Apparently they think crime bosses are smuggling untold billions of digital paper thingy's out in $2,999 appears they trust us as much as we trust least we have confirmation now ;-)

A thousand bucks?!?!...what is that like a million man mule team at a thousand a pop...LOL.

Wed, 09/29/2010 - 14:57 | 613190 mrgneiss
mrgneiss's picture

What a substantive case!

Doesn't seem strange that a government that is obsessed with audits in all departments and branches and all citizens, doesn't appear to be concerned with the current value of one of its biggest assets?

Let's organize a march and protest for Fort Knox, until we get a thorough audit and a broad sampling of assays.  Let's do it when the weather is nice though, like mid-October.

Wed, 09/29/2010 - 11:26 | 612594's picture

Even if Fort Knox and 33 Liberty have all the gold they claim to have an audit should reveal any counterparty claims and reveal just how much paper gold has been created on top of US reserves.

Wed, 09/29/2010 - 11:38 | 612633 Temporalist
Temporalist's picture

The gold holdings of the U.S. is obviously something the PTB think is too important to disclose.  There is clearly a tempest in a teapot.

Wed, 09/29/2010 - 12:36 | 612807 outamyeffinway
outamyeffinway's picture

First of all the Fed bought the US gold in the thirties. The "US" has had no gold for some time.

Secondly, this country needs to differentiate between the government and who's in charge.

Wed, 09/29/2010 - 11:47 | 612654 SheepDog-One
SheepDog-One's picture

Yes, you must believe what authority tells you JLee, do not deviate from this behaviour or you will be terminated. 

Wed, 09/29/2010 - 12:14 | 612744 JLee2027
JLee2027's picture

If you knew me personally, you'd realize how idiotic that statement is.

Wed, 09/29/2010 - 13:35 | 612958 tmosley
tmosley's picture

If you knew anything about our government, you would realize how idiotic your previous statement was.

Wed, 09/29/2010 - 17:05 | 613619 JLee2027
JLee2027's picture

I like you and read your comments with eagerness.

But this comment was without a clue. Seriously. But prattle on if you must. I'll ignore your reply.



Wed, 09/29/2010 - 20:11 | 614128 tmosley
tmosley's picture

Why do you think there is gold in Ft. Knox?

I can't see any reason for anyone take the word of the US government at face value with no supporting evidence.

There may be gold there, there may not be.  But with no evidence to the contrary, I am inclined to disbelieve statements by the government.  If they really had it, one would think they would release pictures of it.  You ought to be able to buy postcards with photoes of the gold in the vault.  You can at the NYFED.  Hell, they let people walk right up to and touch the bars, with the reasoning that they are too large and heavy to sneak out.  I DO believe that the Fed has gold, for this very reason.

Why is it that I can get close enough to sneeze on the glass covering the Magna Carta, the US Constitution, the Crown Jewels, and the Mona Lisa, yes I can't even get a PICTURE of the vault inside of Ft. Knox?  The only logical conclusion is that the vault is empty.

Wed, 09/29/2010 - 18:14 | 613833 Sabremesh
Sabremesh's picture

"The gold is there until proven otherwise"

I just wanted to highlight your comment to demonstrate what a brainwashed cretin you are. If the gold isn't there, then do you think the Fed would be shouting it from the rooftops?

Wed, 09/29/2010 - 10:49 | 612514 FEDbuster
FEDbuster's picture

They should have Geraldo do it, since it will be the same ending as his "Al Capone's Vault" show.

Wed, 09/29/2010 - 11:12 | 612559 gmrpeabody
gmrpeabody's picture


Wed, 09/29/2010 - 11:28 | 612603's picture

"Al Capone's Vault"

I watched that live. What a let down. I think there was an old beer bottle in there.

Wed, 09/29/2010 - 12:13 | 612741 FEDbuster
FEDbuster's picture

You might find some empty beer bottles on top of the pallets of gold plated tungsten bars in Ft. Knox.

Wed, 09/29/2010 - 11:26 | 612596 Quinvarius
Quinvarius's picture

I am starting to think that the Fed and Treasury must be accumulating PMs for a possible end game scenerio to back the dollar.  To back the dollar now, while it is overvalued vs PMs, would be stupid.  The best way would be to keep buying PM's all the way up to the point where you could credibly back the dollar with them to some degree with no disruption.

Doing this also maximizes insider bank profits.  They get to accumluate with the gov all the way up.  Lets say they take gold $5000 and then announce a 10% backing of the dollar with gold.  Well if you owned gold, that implies it is worth about 10 times more than its dollar backing.  So gold goes to $50,000 overnight.  It is diabolical.  But human greed and banker piggishness mean this is a distinct possibility.  They even have the cover story ready that they are doing it to save the currency already in place.  Central bankers are some greedy buggars.

Wed, 09/29/2010 - 11:31 | 612610's picture

A majority of extant gold is in private hands, 52% in jewelry alone (think India). Central banks hold about 18%.

Wed, 09/29/2010 - 20:19 | 614154 GoinFawr
GoinFawr's picture

Awesome! Heartening! I needed that, thanks Crockett.

Wed, 09/29/2010 - 12:28 | 612779 Bananamerican
Bananamerican's picture

we're never going back to an official gold standard. never.

we'll get "new! improved!" fiat backed by nanotech & syringes first


Wed, 09/29/2010 - 13:42 | 612979 midtowng
midtowng's picture

Remember what happened inn Weimar Germany. After their currency collapsed to nothing in 1923, did they go back to gold-backing? No. They came up with a different version of fiat that was supposedly backed by land.

Same story here. After the world monetary system collapses they will create a different fiat system.

Wed, 09/29/2010 - 14:44 | 613148 cornedmutton
cornedmutton's picture

Uhhh, backed currency is by definition NOT fiat.

Wed, 09/29/2010 - 14:41 | 613138 cornedmutton
cornedmutton's picture

Who's "we?" You got a mouse in your pocket?

In all seriousness though, how is it that you believe the same central banking system which will have destoryed all American wealth due to an outright loss of confidence in the system and the value of all wordly fiat currency is going to just suddenly re-inspire confidence in some - to use your words - new and improved fiat currency?

You can't FORCE someone to have faith in paper. And therein lies the rub.

Wed, 09/29/2010 - 12:42 | 612821 outamyeffinway
outamyeffinway's picture

An alternative scenario:

They back the currency with gold for international settlement valued at $100,000 per ounce. The ordinary citizen works for digital credits against gold and silver in infentesmally small amounts sealing your fate to serve a regime long since plotting a fuedal, debt based, slave-wage labored based society.

Don't own gold and silver, go grab that hammer over there, go over there and hit that rock. Don't do it, don't eat. Too old, too bad. And yes there is a union. They take 80% of the pay you make and you get no voting rights.

Just speculation though.

Wed, 09/29/2010 - 15:04 | 613207 Fishing Chimps
Fishing Chimps's picture

I'm pretty sure that sodomites everywhere are truly insulted at being equated to bankster "buggers", as you call them, Quinvarius.

Wed, 09/29/2010 - 13:32 | 612928 Widowmaker
Widowmaker's picture

The gold previously in Ft. Knox was moved to the NY Fed for the very practical reason of moving it from one cage to another, feet instead of days away.   There was even a saying in NY that there was more gold in the Fed vault than Ft. Knox, and everyone thought it was a joke.  The real joke was the empowerment this bestowed on the Fed to commit financial treason against every American past and future.


Wed, 09/29/2010 - 13:33 | 612949 Shameful
Shameful's picture

So if there is gold there, care to share who is the ticket holder for it?  I have to imagine that it's not the USA public.

Wed, 09/29/2010 - 15:47 | 613010 Widowmaker
Widowmaker's picture

It belongs to the Fed (system). 

Got gold?  

Interested in a cite from DosZap (below).

Wed, 09/29/2010 - 16:09 | 613424 DosZap
DosZap's picture


The reasoning was if it were all at one place if it got nuked, all would be worthless , so other sites were made available so some would likley be spared.

Made no sense if you gave out the sites, as why not just draw a map...LOL

Only got one nuke?.

IF yes, a terrorista.

Wed, 09/29/2010 - 16:10 | 613435 Cathartes Aura
Cathartes Aura's picture

a quick search turned up this - don't know about the "credibility" factor, but here:

The majority of the American gold is reported to be held in the world famous United States Bullion Depository in Fort Knox, Kentucky, although there is some controversy that suggests otherwise. The remainder of the US reserves are held at the Philadelphia Mint, the Denver Mint, the West Point Bullion Depository and the San Francisco Assay Office.


the article itself feels "promo" - but might answer your question. . .

Wed, 09/29/2010 - 15:38 | 613310 DosZap
DosZap's picture

The Gold is held in FOUR locations, last reported.

 Ft. Knox,

NYC Fed Bank

West Point,

 and other, I cannot remember..........this was from an article read around 2 weeks ago.( One of the metals sites).


Wed, 09/29/2010 - 13:51 | 613011 Turd Ferguson
Turd Ferguson's picture

 "more diluted" versions of gold bullion.

I bought some gold coins at the candy store. Cheap, too, about $2.00/bag. Break em open and there's some yummy chocolate inside.

One can also buy a "gold coin" from a dealer. Break it open and there's some useless tungsten inside.


Wed, 09/29/2010 - 15:45 | 613327 tmosley
tmosley's picture

You know, I think those little chocolates might have been the seed of my love for gold.

Also, it's damn hard to make a 1 oz coin out of tungsten.  Tungsten is crumbly crap for the most part, unless you are working with extremely advanced tools.  You will throw away a few hundred dollars at least getting the heat up to the right level to actually melt that tungsten to have it take the shape you want.  It's just not worth it for coins or small bars.  Large bars, on the other hand...

Wed, 09/29/2010 - 10:11 | 612420 SilverIsKing
SilverIsKing's picture

Looking at Tulving's website and the list of items that are sold out is growing.  Buffalos are only $26 over spot...oh, they're sold out too!

Wed, 09/29/2010 - 10:39 | 612488 MarketTruth
MarketTruth's picture

Agree, and is the best site and indicator for those who have been in this physical gold market for many years. Small buyers could try Apmex of course.

Wed, 09/29/2010 - 11:38 | 612632 Monetary Lapse ...
Monetary Lapse of Reason's picture

You can buy Buffalo's right now on for $77 over spot......... go get 'um boys and girls.

Wed, 09/29/2010 - 15:40 | 613314 DosZap
DosZap's picture

Yep, do not know why the writer had to embellish that number using a PROOF coin, made him look like a buffoon.

Wed, 09/29/2010 - 22:45 | 614416 Real Estate Geek
Real Estate Geek's picture

+1  (Which, coincidentally was the number of stars I gave this article.) 

Plus, the following was nonsensical, given that there's the same amount of gold in a Buffalo as in an Eagle:

Keeping in mind that the Buffalo is "among the world's purest gold coins in terms of the fineness of the metal they contain" one wonders just how heavy the physical depletion of ultra pure gold must be for the mint to only stock "more diluted" versions of gold bullion.

Wed, 09/29/2010 - 16:11 | 613436 DosZap
DosZap's picture

Screw that, just get MAPES, 24k is 24k. For less.

Thu, 09/30/2010 - 11:59 | 615633 GoinFawr
GoinFawr's picture


Wed, 09/29/2010 - 10:11 | 612421 goldmiddelfinger
goldmiddelfinger's picture

G Gordon Libby teams with Bunkie Hunt for the corner stick play.

Wed, 09/29/2010 - 10:13 | 612424 Temporalist
Temporalist's picture

Just because someone is a criminal doesn't mean they can't be right.

Wed, 09/29/2010 - 10:13 | 612427 goldmiddelfinger
goldmiddelfinger's picture

And they both are!

Wed, 09/29/2010 - 10:49 | 612422 Ragnarok
Ragnarok's picture

Either this, or the mint has been order to redirect all physical holdings of ultra pure gold into the vaults of LBMA dealers for physical sequestration. Our money is on the latter,


There are more important people to cash-out first than the lowly American peasant scum.

Wed, 09/29/2010 - 16:12 | 613447 DosZap
DosZap's picture

Nah, it's that time of year again for 2011's to be next up.

Wed, 09/29/2010 - 10:12 | 612423 Rusty Shorts
Rusty Shorts's picture

"Everyone knows where we have been. Let's see where we are going!

It was once said that "gold and oil can never flow in the same direction". If the current price of oil doesn't change soon we will no doubt run out of gold.

This line of thinking is very real in the world today but it is never discussed openly. You see oil flow is the key to gold flow. It is the movement of gold in the hidden background that has kept oil at these low prices. Not military might, not a strong US dollar, not political pressure, no it was real gold. In very large amounts. Oil is the only commodity in the world that was large enough forgold to hide in. Noone could make the South African / Asian connection when the question was asked, "how could LBMA do so many gold deals and not impact the price". That's because oil is being partially used to pay for gold! We are going to find out that the price of gold, in terms of real money ( oil ) has gone thru the roof over these last few years. People wondered how the physical gold market could be "cornered" when it's currency price wasn't rising and no shortages were showing up? The CBs were becoming the primary suppliers by replacing openly held gold with CB certificates. This action has helped keep gold flowing during a time that trading would have locked up.

(Gold has always been funny in that way. So many people worldwide think of it as money, it tends to dry up as the price rises.) Westerners should not be too upset with the CBs actions, they are buying you time!

So why has this played out this way? In the real world some people know that gold is real wealth no matter what currency price is put on it. Around the world it is traded in huge volumes that never show up on bank statements, govt. stats., or trading graph paper.

The Western governments needed to keep the price of gold down so it could flow where they needed it to flow. The key to free up gold was simple. The Western public will not hold an asset that going nowhere, at least in currency terms. ( if one can only see value in paper currency terms then one cannot see value at all ) The problem for the CBs was that the third world has kept the gold market "bought up" by working thru South Africa! To avoid a spiking oil price the CBs first freed up the publics gold thru the issuance of various types of "paper future gold". As that selling dried up they did the only thing they could, become primary suppliers! And here we are today. In the early 1990s oil went to $30++ for reasons we all know. What isn't known is that it's price didn't drop that much. You see the trading medium changed. Oil went from $30++ to $19 + X amount of gold! Today it costs $19 + XXX amount of gold! Yes, gold has gone up and oil has stayed the same in most eyes.

Now all govts. don't get gold for oil, just a few. That's all it takes. For now! When everyone that has exchanged gold for paper finds out it's real price, in oil terms they will try to get it back. The great scramble that "Big Trader" understood may be very, very close..."

Wed, 09/29/2010 - 11:17 | 612571 gmrpeabody
gmrpeabody's picture

Rusty, could you sum that up in a sentence or two for me? I'm a little thick.

Wed, 09/29/2010 - 11:33 | 612618 NotApplicable
NotApplicable's picture

In order for OPEC entities to trade ever scarcer oil for ever depreciating dollars, without demanding higher prices to compensate, they were allowed to accumulate gold as part of the bargain.

It's one of the most interesting historical theories to emerge from the writings of Another.

Wed, 09/29/2010 - 12:15 | 612746 FEDbuster
FEDbuster's picture

And some high tech military equipment, as seen in the recent $65 billion sale to the Saudis.

Wed, 09/29/2010 - 14:08 | 613049 Rusty Shorts
Rusty Shorts's picture

Yeah, we have traded our Gold ( real wealth ) for Oil (temporary wealth ), now, unwittingly to us westerners, the Oil States have cornered Gold, and hold all the wealth.

Wed, 09/29/2010 - 11:24 | 612587 genieous
genieous's picture

Went over and read some of the stuff.  Interesting.  It reads a little like Martin Armstrong's style.  

Wed, 09/29/2010 - 12:19 | 612759 DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture

@ Rusty

"Gold has always been funny in that way. So many people worldwide think of it as money, it tends to dry up as the price rises."

FOFOA has promised us an article on Another's words above.


Here is the Bearing's take on gold:

There are about 6,000,000,000 oz of gold in stock worldwide, working out to approx. 1 oz per person.  If you say that each American is 10 x "richer" than the average world citizen, then it follows that each American should own 10 oz of physical.  Man, woman and child.  If you are middle class or wealthy, then you should own perhaps 30 oz each.

Now get cracking and go out and buy gold before it's all gone!

Wed, 09/29/2010 - 19:18 | 614014 Big Corked Boots
Big Corked Boots's picture

I read, some time ago on the Kitco forum, that it was traditional for a Chinese family to own a kilogram (+/- 32.15 oz troy) of gold in order to preserve wealth.

I don't know if that's true or not but it certainly parallels your estimate.

Maybe someone with better knowledge of Asian culture can augment this.... ?

Wed, 09/29/2010 - 10:13 | 612425 breezer1
breezer1's picture

all over the world the premiums on physical are rising. its 3 to 4 dollars on silver in many places.

Wed, 09/29/2010 - 12:23 | 612767 DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture

On Monday I paid the below premiums on 1 oz Eagles at the coin shop:

Au: $70 over spot

Ag: $3.50 over spot (roll of 20 oz)

It was a fairly large purchase for me, I feel he gave me a decent deal.

Wed, 09/29/2010 - 12:49 | 612853 Shameful
Shameful's picture

Gah!  I know you are probably buying local but you can get much better prices online.  If you are making big purchases cannot recommend Tulving enough.  Bought a pile of Phillys at about 26 over spot Monday, and now they have random date eagles up for 40 over.

It may be the cheap bastard in me but I really try to get the most bang for my buck.

Wed, 09/29/2010 - 14:23 | 613085 DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture

It's the SECRET bastard in me that buys gold for cash...

Wed, 09/29/2010 - 14:56 | 613187 Shameful
Shameful's picture

The buying I'm not worried about, selling anonymously holds a certain appeal though.  God is the tax rate on it brutal!  But then I'm in the camp that thinks there will be no chance of confiscation till after a toal dollar collapse and a total police state lock down and that should give anyone plenty of warning to bury their treasure, or with enough warning take it out of country. I hear there is no VAT on gold in the EU...

Wed, 09/29/2010 - 10:15 | 612429 tmosley
tmosley's picture

Buffalos are semi-numismatic coins.  It is not abnormal for the mint to stop producing them, as they are the Mint's lowest priority coin.

If they stop minting Eagles, then you have real trouble.  I believe this was the case back in 2008, but I'm not certain.

Wed, 09/29/2010 - 10:38 | 612483 mark mchugh
mark mchugh's picture

That was in fact the case:


Wed, 09/29/2010 - 12:36 | 612811 Bananamerican
Bananamerican's picture

thanks for the brief moment of sanity Tmos....

Wed, 09/29/2010 - 13:41 | 612974 tmosley
tmosley's picture

I try to avoid confirmation bias.  Getting overly emotional about things that aren't really a big deal doesn't help anyone.

That said, gold is the buy of the century, though silver is the buy of the millennium.  A lack of 24K planchets doesn't point to that any more than a fever points to Ebola.  Fever might be a symptom of Ebola, but it is a symptom of many other far more common things, so it is nothing to get worked up over all on its own.  

Wed, 09/29/2010 - 10:15 | 612433 Bearster
Bearster's picture

You mean depletion of the 24K blanks, where manufacturing capacity is limited and not easily expanded?

There is no lack of gold at 1308/ounce

Wed, 09/29/2010 - 10:23 | 612448 maneco
maneco's picture

Bearster the market is manipulated! If the mints were to go into the market for "real" physical gold at the moment it would ruin the bullion banks' game! You need physical gold to make coins!  Definition: A coin blank is the metal disc onto which a coin will be struck. As you can see a coin blank is has nothing to do with the shortage. The mint has run out of gold and the Treasury has probably barred them from buying anymore.                   

Wed, 09/29/2010 - 11:19 | 612575 GoldSilverDoc
GoldSilverDoc's picture

"There is no lack of gold at 1308/ounce".

Oh, really?  Go find a 400 oz good delivery bar for delivery tomorrow at that price.  And good luck (you won't find one).

Don't make pronouncements about things you know nothing of.

Wed, 09/29/2010 - 10:15 | 612434 TooBearish
TooBearish's picture

Dinosaur extrodinaire Dennis Fartmen says sell - over done......

Wed, 09/29/2010 - 10:17 | 612436 goldmiddelfinger
goldmiddelfinger's picture

He of the broken clock school of accuracy? Purveyor of ye olde blind squirrel fund

Wed, 09/29/2010 - 15:48 | 613334 oddjob
oddjob's picture

Dennis Gartman is a shill who is consistently wrong on gold.

Wed, 09/29/2010 - 10:16 | 612435 maneco
maneco's picture

It makes you wonder how leveraged the bullion banks' shorts are! According to Jeff Christian of CPM (at a CFTC hearing) the London Bullion Market is leveveraged about 100 to 1!

Wed, 09/29/2010 - 10:18 | 612440 Azannoth
Azannoth's picture

"Most importantly, the US Buffalo is actually priced about 20% over spot" - hmmm I bough mine for 1020 euro 2 months ago in Germany

Wed, 09/29/2010 - 10:33 | 612473 -273
-273's picture

They are available for 1.063,00 EUR today on Proaurum. Seems bloody expensive for a little coin if you ask me especially since the price of almost everything else has been dropping around here. I bought some gold last year, but at this price, as of now, it's looking too much.

Wed, 09/29/2010 - 10:40 | 612490 Cognitive Dissonance
Cognitive Dissonance's picture

There is a fundamental error people repeat when thinking about the "price" of Gold.

The price of Gold has not gone up. The value of your fiat currency has gone down, thus you need more of those colored pieces of paper to purchase the same amount of Gold.

Gold isn't getting more expensive, you currency is becoming worth-less.

Wed, 09/29/2010 - 10:44 | 612501 Sudden Debt
Sudden Debt's picture

But your salary isn't going up at the same speed so the price of Gold DOES go up.


Wed, 09/29/2010 - 10:52 | 612516 Cognitive Dissonance
Cognitive Dissonance's picture

Which means the value of your labor has gone down when priced in both Gold and fiat currency. How you see life depends on how it compares to other things. So many people view their fiat currency as static and the "price" of things as getting more expensive.

Yes, when paid in fiat currency, it appears things are going up in price. But only if you measure price in fiat currency. This is why we are slaves. We are enslaved by a currency system that has no basis, thus the value of our labor when measured in fiat currency can be devalued at the whim of the ruling elite.

As long as we see things from the fiat currency point of view, we trap ourselves within the system. If you were to measure the world in your labor units or something else that is more static (say Gold or Silver or cow droppings) the world seems a very different place.

Break away from the fiat currency illusion.

Wed, 09/29/2010 - 11:40 | 612640 NotApplicable
NotApplicable's picture

I love explaining to people how, with the exception of the one day a year you might get a pay raise (not that that's likely anymore), every other day you get paid less than the day before, even though you should be more valuable as you gain experience. (within occupational limits, of course)

Even if they have no interest in economics, that fact is enough to spur it. Then, they might come to understand the value of silver/gold vs. the value of political promises.

Or they go vote, and avoid talking to me again.

Wed, 09/29/2010 - 11:59 | 612692 bronzie
bronzie's picture

"every other day you get paid less than the day before"

in the Weimar republic monetary debasement (inflation to the uninformed) got so bad that the workers demanded, and got, daily payment of their wages - they did their best to convert this daily pay into anything tangible because the paper money would be essentially worthless (not only worth less, worth zero!) the next day

"When Money Dies", by Adam Fergusson

Wed, 09/29/2010 - 19:57 | 614094 StychoKiller
StychoKiller's picture

It's my understanding that you got paid at least twice a day.  Around noon, Die Frau would pop in with a wheelbarrow and try to obtain some food before the grocer either ran out or demanded two wheelbarrows of FRNs (oops, I mean Deutchemarks!).

Wed, 09/29/2010 - 11:57 | 612682 still kicking
still kicking's picture

CD I agree with you but I think you also have to look at the value of other tangible goods, many are depreciating agains fiat and gold and others are appreciating agains fiat but not agains gold.  This is such a different time for people they just can't wrap their minds around it all.  Gold is still absolutely the safest place to be.

Wed, 09/29/2010 - 12:57 | 612737 Cognitive Dissonance
Cognitive Dissonance's picture

Point taken.

There are no absolutes, particularly in an world economic system as distorted as ours has become. The weekly monetary pumps into the economic system by all central banks make "real" measurements nearly impossible. Even Gold can become distorted once the herd "discovers" it.

I was only attempting to present an illustration, not a concrete example.

Wed, 09/29/2010 - 20:57 | 614236 WaterWings
WaterWings's picture

I will not disagree, and simply add that food and firearms are a must. Gold sure you can also *guarantee* your life so you can redeem it when the time comes.

Fri, 10/01/2010 - 16:07 | 619168 still kicking
still kicking's picture

Very true, I neglected to focus on that but you are right, food/water and firearms are first.

Wed, 09/29/2010 - 11:10 | 612553 Roi
Roi's picture

Compare the dollar index to the gold price for the last month. I adds up to about +/- 0 for gold priced in the basket of currencies that the index is calculated against.


Does this mean the US is getting physical while the rest of the world is selling paper?

Wed, 09/29/2010 - 10:55 | 612523 -273
-273's picture

I understand this rational, however, my euros still buy the same or more of other goods, therefore, gold is less attractive at this price and I might as well buy other things which are a better deal.

Wed, 09/29/2010 - 11:15 | 612564 stollcri
stollcri's picture

That sounds like a very economically rational thing to say. If the whole system is rigged, like some people around here claim, then would the people who do the rigging set up the equation this way on purpose?

Is there a safe place to park your money right now? The stock market is rigged, other returns are low, gold is difficult to price. Maybe the answer is that they don't want people parking their money; they want people to spend like there is no tomorrow.

Wed, 09/29/2010 - 12:02 | 612700 bronzie
bronzie's picture

"gold is difficult to price"

this statement indicates thinking in terms of fiat money

a more informed statement might be something like, "gold is difficult to value" - then we could have a more meaningful discussion

Wed, 09/29/2010 - 16:24 | 613483 DosZap
DosZap's picture


You have ZERO inflation over there?.

I cannot name one thing, outside of durables that is less now, than last year.

Bottom line, the reason CB's and everyone else that HAS bought PM's, does is, it is not anothers liability.( not encumbered).

It stands alone.

Thu, 09/30/2010 - 03:43 | 614778 -273
-273's picture

For the moment inflation in 2010 is about 1.5% and is way below the increase in the gold price, petrol prices are (for now, over here) lower than this time last year. During the early weimar years there was an increase in the minimum to exist of 86 times, eggs increased 180 times, average wages increased 34 times.  We are miles away from that.

I couldnt even negotiate a small pay rise in the middle of 2010 because the CPI rate in Austria over the past year was like .1%. During some months it was negative. The point im trying to make is that gold at the moment has risen a lot whilst more essential goods have not and therefore I will buy more essential goods when I have to, and save the rest of anything left over. If inflation does start picking up I will change my mind and possibly buy some more gold, but not at this price, not here, and not right now.

Wed, 09/29/2010 - 11:52 | 612670 SheepDog-One
SheepDog-One's picture

Good point needs to be reinforced. Like yesterdays usual last minute .30% end of day pop in paper equities actually was a net loss in purchasing power. The 'prices' of gold and stocks arent going up, just taking more of the cratering paper to buy them.

Wed, 09/29/2010 - 10:42 | 612497 Sudden Debt
Sudden Debt's picture

So true, I mostly bought 5.81 gr. gold tunisia 20 frank coins. The reason is because if gold would spike, those will be more easy to unload.


Gold 30.000 OZ

1 oz coin = 30.000$

1 5.81gr. coin = 6148$


But if you'll sell on of those 2 coins, the small coin will sell more easy.


Wed, 09/29/2010 - 11:03 | 612541 scatterbrains
scatterbrains's picture

The 1/10 oz.  Canadian Maple Leaf is a pretty good coin for the reason as well. Also they are .9999 % pure gold. I find that the higher premiums tend to be static over larger denominated coins but I could be wrong. Has anyone looked at the % premium spread between the two dinominations over a long period of time ?

Wed, 09/29/2010 - 11:09 | 612547 RockyRacoon
RockyRacoon's picture

Royal Canadian Mint has stopped striking 2010-dated Silver Maple Leafs. Orders now being received from the RCM’s primary distributors will be filled with 2011-dated coins, which should be released within a month. It happened that this cut off surprised some dealers who had accepted orders to deliver 2010-dated pieces, but not yet covered their commitments. As a result, premiums for Silver Maples are up slightly. If physical silver shortages develop in the next few weeks, the 2011-dated coins may remain at higher premium levels indefinitely.


Wed, 09/29/2010 - 16:28 | 613495 DosZap
DosZap's picture

Premiums on ANY smaller denom  coins is FAR above the 1oz coins here.

Even Silver rounds, premiums are same for 1/2oz., as a 1oz.

Gold Mapes,Eagles, do not even go there.................bend over grab ankles,call ther Bawney Fwank Bwigade!

Wed, 09/29/2010 - 11:20 | 612578 cat2
cat2's picture

That's why you buy 1 oz silver coins for every day use.  Gold is for big purchases (or converting to a lot of silver.)

Wed, 09/29/2010 - 14:10 | 612520 GoinFawr
GoinFawr's picture

Zero Degrees Kelvin: Bearshit.


Wed, 09/29/2010 - 10:56 | 612525 EscapeKey
EscapeKey's picture

I buy whatever's closest to spot. Which means I usually buy Krug's.

If we get to the stage of using PMs as a means of exchange, who will care about a picture of some panda or tiger.

Wed, 09/29/2010 - 11:01 | 612537 Shameful
Shameful's picture

I can't bring myself to buy any more krugs.  I got gifted a few from family and I have to say it's the ugliest gold coin I own.  So I may be crazy but I'm willing to pay a few bucks more a coin to get a Maple Leaf or Philharmonic or even a Kangaroo. 

Wed, 09/29/2010 - 11:23 | 612585 gmrpeabody
gmrpeabody's picture


Wed, 09/29/2010 - 12:30 | 612787 Sudden Debt
Sudden Debt's picture

So true!

I find the Mexican Libertad and the English Lunar and the Chinese Panda series the most beautifull onces.

The Libertad for the detail, the Lunar for the size.

I just keep my Krugers because they are from 67 and that makes them pretty pricy. But they look... flat...

Wed, 09/29/2010 - 13:39 | 612969 Things that go bump
Things that go bump's picture

I hate to admit to such gross stupidity (you will recall the old saw about a fool and his money),  but I sold a Krug recently.  Let me tell you what; Krugs might be ugly, but I offered a Krug and a Maple Leaf.  The coin dealer never looked twice at the Krug.   The Maple Leaf he weighed and measured, and because of a few minor scratches offered me less, giving me some bull about not as attractive to collectors.  I took my Maple Leaf home with me.   After some thought, if I buy coin instead of bullion it is going to be Krugs.

Wed, 09/29/2010 - 14:16 | 613062 GoinFawr
GoinFawr's picture

My dealer has no problem with Krugs either, or Maple Leafs for that matter; buying or selling. 'Course, he knows me pretty well by now... but this is anecdotal anyway.


Wed, 09/29/2010 - 16:33 | 613510 DosZap
DosZap's picture

Funny how Prems are HIGHER on one coin, in one area, and lower in another.

Krugs higher here, Buffs, and Eagles,Phils.

Mapes the least.............

Thu, 09/30/2010 - 00:49 | 614649 Max UK
Max UK's picture

To EscapeKey,

For a Brit living in the UK (which possibly is your situation), there is a tax implication of what you buy. UK minted coins (typically sovereigns and Britannias) are exempt from Capital Gains Tax. The others are not. Might partly help to explain the disparity of coin premiums in the UK market.

Wed, 09/29/2010 - 11:24 | 612586 nontaxpayer
nontaxpayer's picture

1042.40 eur at Tavex

Wed, 09/29/2010 - 10:19 | 612443 FEDbuster
FEDbuster's picture

Mapleleafs are 24 karat, if you are looking for pure.  Eagles weigh a little more because they aren't 24 karat, they are 22 karat.  They still contain 1 troy ounce of pure gold.

The debate rages on about the differences between GLD and holding physical gold.  For me it comes down to a reliance on the "system" to be up and running for GLD (or even PHYS) to retain value.  In a "system" down envioronment, having something in your hand is always better than a digital claim on a phantom commodity.  In other words,  I would rather have an AK47 in my hands than own a 100 shares of GUN when the SHTF.

Wed, 09/29/2010 - 10:23 | 612450 goldmiddelfinger
goldmiddelfinger's picture

In your EOW scenairo if you dont trust GLD to perform you'd better gun up and armor plate your windows.

BTW try asking for change for that krugeraand with your lunchmeat purchase and never watch the movie "The Road".

Wed, 09/29/2010 - 10:30 | 612466 Ragnarok
Ragnarok's picture

That director needs to be banished never to make another movie again.  All plant, animal, insect etc. life dead, except somehow humans are alive.  WTF?

Wed, 09/29/2010 - 10:45 | 612499 Cognitive Dissonance
Cognitive Dissonance's picture

The director isn't responsible for the basic premise of the movie. Try talking to the best selling author.

Wed, 09/29/2010 - 10:48 | 612510 Ragnarok
Ragnarok's picture

Fair Enough....... but didn't you feel horribly robbed at the end of "No Country for Old Men"?

Wed, 09/29/2010 - 11:03 | 612536 Cognitive Dissonance
Cognitive Dissonance's picture

Same author/writer. He does seem to have a consistent theme.

Robbed is an interesting word. We have been conditioned and propagandized to believe that when being entertained, we must leave happy. Define happy.

Happy in the world today means that our public myths, be they produced politically or via mainstream media, must conform to and be consistent with the public myth. Our public myths must support our public myths. And the predominate public myth is one of "freedom" and "happiness" and "second chance" and "rebirth" and "bad guys bad, good guys good" etc.

So if by "robbed" you mean the movie didn't help support the public myth, meaning it didn't do a good job of keeping the public myth, then......yeah, you were robbed. 

Maybe we need to grow up. Then we might actually expect our leaders to do the same. Only when we lead can we expect our leaders to follow.

Wed, 09/29/2010 - 11:29 | 612580 Ragnarok
Ragnarok's picture

Happy, no, not at all.  I felt robbed because the story follows the one character through the movie and then just stops and you miss his death in the motel room.


I guess I wanted closure.  No loose ends, it doesn't have to be happy.  I wanted a "why" because after all it was a movie, if the author and director want to make a point about the real world save me my 2 hours and just take a picture of the unsolved cases file room in any major city. 

Wed, 09/29/2010 - 11:52 | 612662 Cognitive Dissonance
Cognitive Dissonance's picture

So you're definition is closure. Which is another public myth. I get your point. I'm not arguing over what the movie did or didn't do so much as what we demand of our movies, which reflects our demands of our public culture and myths.

There is no closure in life. None. The only closure comes from our acceptance of something that resembles closure or of something that we can kid ourselves into believing is closure. Or something good enough for movie work.

The illusions we demand in our lives must be reflected in our public myths, otherwise we're unsatisfied with both our lives and our myths. God forbid we live within reality. Then we would be responsible for our lives and our leaders, who ultimately represent our cultural lives.

Then again, I'm getting way too philosophical here. I actually loved the movie because it didn't follow the accepted path and yet it was widely praised. However, have you noticed there is only a small public tolerance for those types of movies in any one year. Can't have too much reality. Folks might get restless.

Cue Paris Hilton please.

Wed, 09/29/2010 - 20:04 | 614112 StychoKiller
StychoKiller's picture

I think that after people view the upcoming movie "Inside Job", they ARE GONNA FEEL ROBBED, but not by the movie!

Wed, 09/29/2010 - 11:09 | 612546 MachoMan
MachoMan's picture

Not remotely.  If you want to find a home in your preconceived notion of the cowboy riding off into the sunset with the pretty lady, then I encourage you to randomly pick any movie and you'll likely find exactly what you're looking for...  sometimes there are people in life that are incredibly resourceful, determined, and strike fear in all those smart enough to understand them.  The end of the movie perfectly captured this concept...  aside from making a sincere attempt at actually being realistic.

Wed, 09/29/2010 - 11:30 | 612606 nontaxpayer
nontaxpayer's picture

Just rewatched it 2 nights ago. Still loved it. Shows the unpredictability of life. Like To Live and Die in LA where the main guy gets it in a locker room in the end.

Wed, 09/29/2010 - 11:59 | 612689 Cognitive Dissonance
Cognitive Dissonance's picture

Even the so called "good" guy (Llewelyn Wells/Josh Brolin) put himself in a bad situation because of his desire to take something that wasn't his. He knew full well what he had walked into (a busted drug deal) and what he was doing. Yet he did it anyway and was defiant to the end in thinking that it was his right.

Even the "good" sheriff (Ed Tom Bell/Tommy Lee Jones) crossed some clear ethical boundaries. Very interesting film.

Wed, 09/29/2010 - 11:56 | 612680 SheepDog-One
SheepDog-One's picture

Yea it was an interesting movie, liked the first part in particular when hes hunting and runs into the Mexican drug exchange gone wrong and all that. Then not much else to the remainder of the movie at all. Frankly if it were me, I would have unloaded all the cash, the homing device would have been found right then, and buried it out in the desert and forgotten it for a year.

Wed, 09/29/2010 - 16:35 | 613517 DosZap
DosZap's picture

Thought it sucked.

Wed, 09/29/2010 - 21:04 | 614247 WaterWings
WaterWings's picture

Yep. The book ruined it for me. Much, much more brutal. I was in fact reading it exactly two years ago.

"Hey, look at that! 777 points lost! Time to buy those subzero sleeping bags and canned food. Batten down the hatches!"

Funny thing, watching it in real-time on and the market report sponsor was Jack Daniel's.

"This market implosion brought to you by..."

The little things in life.

Wed, 09/29/2010 - 11:16 | 612566 MachoMan
MachoMan's picture

The art direction was superb and I was completely drawn into the movie...  it felt like getting punched in the stomach afterward.  The job was well done.

As for the concept of other life on earth being dead, in order to dispense with the notion, you need to provide a timeline.  The movie provides you no timeline sufficient enough to dispense with its premise.  Obviously, if this process is kept up long enough, then humans will eventually cannibalize their only food source and subsequently starve.  Needless to say, this process is very much alive and portrayed in the movie.  In other words, you are witnessing the transition and not the end game.  This allows the author (not director...) to focus on morality, familial ties, and coming to terms with our fragile existence.

The book and the movie were superb....  and not just in comparison to most of the complete and total shit being spewn from the studios these days.

Wed, 09/29/2010 - 17:16 | 613262 akak
akak's picture

I must disagree.  I read "The Road", and found it to be a literary pile of crap.  It reads as if written by an uninspired fourth grader, with the most inane and monosyllabic dialogue, and  perhaps the most hollow and poorly developed characterization, I think I have ever come across in a (mysteriously) best-selling book.  This is not a criticism in any way of the plot, or the fact that the book is "depressing" ("1984" was just as depressing, and is a literary masterpiece IMO).  I found "The Road" to be an agonizingly painful read, and maybe unfairly have avoided the movie just for that reason.

Wed, 09/29/2010 - 22:03 | 614361 GoinFawr
GoinFawr's picture

You read any other Eric Blair akak? "1984" was awesome, but embedded in "Down and Out in Paris and London" are some real gems.  Warning: It's not exactly 'parades, parties and puppy dogs' either.

On Topic: I've never read "The Road". But the 'Bestseller' designation is often a result of the publisher buying however many it takes to make the list... just sayin'.


Wed, 09/29/2010 - 10:45 | 612505 FEDbuster
FEDbuster's picture

The book is better than the movie.  In the book when they find the "bunker" filled with food, clothes, beds, etc...  The father finds a small bag of Krugerrands.  He holds them in his hands for a minute thinking about a time when they had value, then lets them drop to the ground.  He then gathers up as much canned food as they can carry, while leaving the gold behind.  That scene (which should have made the movie) showed there can be a time and place where even gold has no value.  I pray we never get there.

We could get to a place where digital claims on wealth are erased.  Any disruption in the electrical grid (EMP, cyber attack, etc...) that knocks out our electricity, would have a devastating effect on the "system".  Recommended reading "One Second After" to get a glimpse of that possibility.

Wed, 09/29/2010 - 10:49 | 612513 Temporalist
Temporalist's picture

A virus is most likely and it can be generated from anywhere.

Also attacks on ComSats will be the next generation warfare.

Wed, 09/29/2010 - 11:02 | 612538 goldfish1
goldfish1's picture

Should have put 'em in his pocket.

Wed, 09/29/2010 - 11:23 | 612582 FEDbuster
FEDbuster's picture

Dead weight.

Wed, 09/29/2010 - 11:28 | 612602 gmrpeabody
gmrpeabody's picture

Make bullets.

Wed, 09/29/2010 - 13:47 | 612998 TreadwCare
TreadwCare's picture

Now I don't know but I been told
it's hard to run with the weight of gold
Other hand I heard it said
it's just as hard with the weight of lead :)

Wed, 09/29/2010 - 11:48 | 612657 genieous
genieous's picture

"One Second After" was one of the best, most powerful books I have ever read.  That one really hit me where I live.  I highly recommend that book.

Wed, 09/29/2010 - 12:33 | 612797 DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture

+++ One Second After

Wed, 09/29/2010 - 21:10 | 614259 WaterWings
WaterWings's picture

Best non-militant-pattern survivalist read out there. Yet that's what pulls the survivors together. Realistic scenario and the characters aren't made out of cardboard. 

Read it on your Kindle or iPad to keep the market propped up just a little while longer while you get your preps.  

Wed, 09/29/2010 - 10:46 | 612507 tmosley
tmosley's picture

Let me ask you this:  if GLD had existed during the Weimar era in Germany, and you were a citizen of Germany with deep roots, would you have put your money into it, or would you have bought physical gold?  If you bought GLD back then, do you think you would have been as well off?  Or do you think you would have lost all of your money, because they never actually had any gold to start with?

Equating the bankruptcy of an ETF, or even a nation, with the end of the world is ludicrous.  Just because you want people who think differently than you to be crazy doesn't mean they are.

Wed, 09/29/2010 - 10:50 | 612515 Temporalist
Temporalist's picture

Right and would you have been able to sell the GLD or SLV in order to buy anything including gold or silver?

Wed, 09/29/2010 - 16:48 | 613543 DosZap
DosZap's picture


Right on.

IF you can't hold it,bite it, OWN it,you have nada.

ETFS are  not worth the paper it's written on.

As I have stated here, ETFS are for trading............( as they are not worth anymore than a FRN unless perchance you MIGHT get a 400oz bar).

Also,look at some of the overseas Vaults and low prems...............that state you can take delivery............( read the fine print, yeah, you can, with a 10% fee on the total amount you OWN!).Screw that...................

You invested $200k in their, want it in Physical?......ok, shipping ,hndling, and a $20k kicker?. Eat feces and die.

That is worse than THEFT.

Physical is for wealth preservation.

Wed, 09/29/2010 - 14:22 | 613080 PhattyBuoy
PhattyBuoy's picture

Lunch meat is "mystery meat" ... yummy !

Wed, 09/29/2010 - 10:30 | 612465 stollcri
stollcri's picture

To have value the people around you have to be sure that your AK will work. With an AK I guess this would be easy to demonstrate.

Wed, 09/29/2010 - 10:48 | 612509 Internet Tough Guy
Internet Tough Guy's picture

No one who has an AK pointed at them asks if it works. Some things are taken for granted.

Wed, 09/29/2010 - 10:57 | 612528 FEDbuster
FEDbuster's picture

The nice thing about an AK is they only stop working when they run out of bullets.

Wed, 09/29/2010 - 12:36 | 612808 DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture

+ 7.62 x 39

Love my AK-47...

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