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US Mint Sells More Gold Coins In May Than Any Month Since January 1999

Tyler Durden's picture


If anyone wants to know the reason why PHYS is once again trading at about a 10% premium to NAV all over again (yes mere days after the follow on offering) look no further than the US mint. Reuters reports that "The U.S. mint sold 190,000 1-ounce American Eagle gold coins in May, the largest number since January 1999, and the most in any month so far in 2010, according to a spokesman for the U.S. agency." At least the mint still has gold coins to satisfy record demand. Buyers in Europe unfortunately are not so lucky, which is why in Greece recently an oz of sold for as high as $1,700.

In January 1999, the U.S. mint sold 208,500 gold 1-ounce coins, with only five other months exceeding May's gold coin sales since the program was launched in 1986, the Mint's spokesman told Reuters.

While in 2010 the U.S. Mint has sold only 1-ounce gold coins, in past years it has sold other coin sizes as well.

Comparing only American Eagle gold 1-ounce coins, the biggest monthly sale occurred in October 1986 with 609,500 coins sold, the Mint said.

Many investors, both retail and institutional, have sought gold as a safe-haven asset in times of economic uncertainty. Sales of the American Eagle coins increased by 214 percent in the month over April during a time when concerns about sovereign debt in the euro zone raised fears of a larger macro-economic effect.

The price of gold bullion reached a record high last month at $1,248.95 per ounce.

As the US Treasury will gladly tell you, there are some products for which demand increases proprtionally with price. While Tim Geithner would like you to believe this means Treasuries, gold is rapidly replacing Treasuries in this regard. As to questions about whether gold is in a bubble, we can't claim to know the answer at this point. Please ask us again when gold trades at $5,000.

h/t Rusty Shackleford


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Tue, 06/01/2010 - 16:56 | 387744 nuinut
nuinut's picture

Even more relevant: How many will they sell in June?

Tue, 06/01/2010 - 16:59 | 387764 Temporalist
Temporalist's picture

Nah, what is more relevant is when will they run out.  So far less than 1% of the population even thinks about buying gold so if there was a spike in demand from that 1% imagine if 2% wake the fuck up.

Tue, 06/01/2010 - 19:55 | 388205 DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture

+ $1220 (or so)

Wed, 06/02/2010 - 03:31 | 388871 BobWatNorCal
BobWatNorCal's picture

Sorry, complete newbie here. Are we talking about these guys?

Production of United States Mint American Eagle Gold Proof and

Uncirculated Coins has been temporarily suspended because of

unprecedented demand...

Tue, 06/01/2010 - 18:37 | 388033 Pegasus Muse
Pegasus Muse's picture

“If anyone wants to know the reason why PHYS is once again trading at about a 10% premium to NAV all over again (yes mere days after the follow on offering)...”


Yes, it’s good to see PHYS rising.  That will help those unfortunate naive Sprott investors who watched in dismay as their holdings decreased 10% ($12.50/unit down to $11.25/unit) instantaneously after Sprott announced its surprise Follow-On Offering to sell more units after the close on 25 May.  No doubt someone was liking that deal.  It just wasn’t the investors that placed their trust in Sprott to deal with them in a fair and honest manner.


Yep, at this rate those investors will make up their losses in no time.  They just need to carefully watch unit valuations and be ever mindful of the next No-Notice Rip-Off coming their way by virtue of yet another Follow-On Offering when the unit price to NAV premium gets a little too rich for the Sprott Boyz' blood.  It will be “skim some off the top” time again for our favorite ... and most hyped ... gold fund from north of the border.


Caveat emptor with the Sprott Physical Gold Trust (PHYS) folks.  Caveat emptor.

Tue, 06/01/2010 - 19:04 | 388119 truont
truont's picture

The NAV premiums are NOT a secret.  Suckers bought the 20% NAV premium because they really, REALLY wanted in on the fund.  CEF has similar NAV premium gyrations, but not up to 20%.

At least PHYS actually HAS gold bullion bars.

If GLD offered delivery of their "gold" then PHYS would have a NAV premium of 0%, since no one would care about Sprott's fund.

Clearly, PHYS offers something that GLD cannot satisfy...maybe real gold?

Tue, 06/01/2010 - 20:28 | 388189 Pegasus Muse
Pegasus Muse's picture

Agree – the NAV premiums are not a secret.  The intent to execute and date of Follow-On Offering (the Rip Off Event) is secret (to the best of my knowledge .... and I've been trying to resolve this issue with Sprott Investments, so far, with no success). 

It is not just the “suckers” that bought PHYS at a 20% NAV premium that were ripped off on this deal.  Every investor who put their money with Sprott got scammed.  What about the guy who bought PHYS at $10.50/unit and watched it go up to $12.50/unit commensurate with the increase in the price of gold?   He’s up 19% (12.50/10.50) and feeling good about his decision to invest with Sprott.  Then out of the blue Sprott drops the Follow-On Offering bomb which Nucs the unit price of PHYS down to $11.25/unit.  That investor watches in shock and disbelief as his profit drop from 19% to 7% (11.25/10.50) in an instant.  Instead of reaping the $2.00/unit profit for which he risked his capital, he now sees his profit reduced by more than half (to 75 cents).  He was caught unaware and unable to react.  While this maneuver may be legal, it is still patently unfair to PHYS investors.  Eric Sprott would not want to be treated that way.

I agree the real drawing card for Sprott is ability to cash out for gold bars – that is, if you have enough invested in the fund to purchase a 400 oz. bar. 

But that investor friendly provision is totally negated, imho, by the sneaky underhanded Follow-On Offering business.  Sprott ought to publically announce the intent to do a Follow-On Offering before executing it.  That would allow his investors the opportunity to remain invested or to sell their units, as they see fit.  That is the honorable way to treat the people who entrusted you with their money.     

Tue, 06/01/2010 - 22:04 | 388446 tmosley
tmosley's picture

Well, he should have bought physical gold then.  If you want to track something perfectly, you HAVE TO OWN IT.  The follow on offer was a non-event, because they were simply buying more gold.  Having more gold to back up your shares is somehow bad?

If you don't want the swings that come from owning a managed product like phys, just buy it yourself.  It's that simple.

Wed, 06/02/2010 - 09:03 | 388980 Pegasus Muse
Pegasus Muse's picture

I own physical purchased with regular money.  With IRA money you cannot own physical and hold it yourself.  You have Custodial Account counterparty risk.  Looking at the available options to buy PM with IRA money, I opted for Sprott because he says he'll cash you out in gold bars and because he stores his metal outside the USA (at the Royal Canadian Mint).  However, his sneaky Follow-On Offering "gottcha" trick is a negative that more than offsets the positives. 

I could cash out the IRAs and take the tax and penalty hit and be free buy PMs without contraint.  After my experience with Sprott I'm thinking seriously about doing just that.

Tue, 06/01/2010 - 16:56 | 387749 Ragnarok
Ragnarok's picture

The more gold the common American has, the better.

Tue, 06/01/2010 - 16:58 | 387758 nuinut
nuinut's picture

Who is hoovering up the domestic weak hands via Cash4Gold, Kmart and Sears?

It's not 1933 all over again, is it?

Tue, 06/01/2010 - 17:02 | 387776 Temporalist
Temporalist's picture

And people will sell their jewelry at Cash4gold, Kmart and Sears for 1/2 the value.  Word of mouth (public knowledge) will end that as the price rises...although there is no accounting for stupidity too I suppose.

Tue, 06/01/2010 - 18:49 | 388079 Gold...Bitches
Gold...Bitches's picture

Word of mouth (public knowledge) will end that as the price rises...although there is no accounting for stupidity too I suppose.

I wish I could agree with you.  However, you can't fix stupid...

No matter how many stories regarding the low prices these places pay, people will still line up all day long all the way through this thing.

Tue, 06/01/2010 - 17:42 | 387785 Ragnarok
Ragnarok's picture

Don't know, but a couple months ago when I was traveling to Panama there were US customs officials at the gate questioning the passengers if they were transporting cash/cash-equivalents out of the country.  What the fuck business is it of theirs, as long as US citizens pay their world wide income taxes?


BTW, does anybody know the rules of exporting gold from the U.S. if you're a citizen, a resident or a non-resident?

Tue, 06/01/2010 - 18:18 | 388011 akak
akak's picture

Believe it or not, gold is NOT considered a "cash equivalent" or "monetary instrument" by the US government (at the present time), so one can legally travel with just as much gold as one can carry.  How long this state of affairs may last, I would not care to guess, but my gut feeling tells me not long.

Tue, 06/01/2010 - 20:04 | 388226 DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture

That's NOT what US Customs told me akak.

If you want to take out more than $10 k worth (without declaring it), talk to a good lawyer first.

I did fill out the form the first time as it was >$10,000 worth.  The other time, my wife and I just took 5 ozs each.

Tue, 06/01/2010 - 20:20 | 388241 akak
akak's picture


I am not doubting you at all, but I did contact US Customs myself as well, and was told that gold is NOT a declarable item as far as they are concerned, as it is not officially any sort of monetary instrument or cash equivalent.  But as with dealing with the IRS, we know that two people are not going to necessarily be told the same story.

EDIT: Apparently, gold COINS are declarable, but only for their face value.  However, "Gold bullion is not a monetary instrument", according to their website.

In any event, NONE of this should be the concern of TSA, especially if one is flying domestically.  I have read of several cases where passengers flying with gold and/or silver were harassed or detained by TSA only for that reason, which was blatantly illegal.

Tue, 06/01/2010 - 23:58 | 388663 DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture

Ahh, that's interesting, because what we have taken out are Eagles.  (also note the Las Vegas court case about an employer paying his employees in Eagles valued at what they say: $50, the IRS LOST hahaha)

I still would be very careful about taking out large value gold without declaring...

Spot on re TSA harrassing people...  Esp. people taking FRNs.  But, my experience re TSA's machines getting anyone excited (2 times) is that the gold went through without comment.  "YMMV"

Tue, 06/01/2010 - 20:52 | 388308 Hephasteus
Hephasteus's picture

Oh wow. That statement was really naive. You need to hit the books.

Tue, 06/01/2010 - 18:37 | 388051 seventree
seventree's picture

I don't know what the official rules are, but any transfer or movement of any significant cash or cash equivalent to anyone anywhere just might be terrorism-related, and that's an area where government makes up its own rules. You can invoke your inalienable rights as an American citizen, but nobody can hear you inside that little room that only opens from the outside.

If the above sounds ravingly paranoid -- thank you for noticing.

Tue, 06/01/2010 - 18:44 | 388070 Kali
Kali's picture

Yes, if we don't even have honest money, how can we have honest law?

Tue, 06/01/2010 - 19:11 | 388128 Rusty_Shackleford
Rusty_Shackleford's picture


Unsound money is at the base of all of our problems, because at it's core, it is dishonest.

Tue, 06/01/2010 - 16:59 | 387767 SWRichmond
SWRichmond's picture

Marc Faber: become your own central bank.

Tue, 06/01/2010 - 17:02 | 387777 economicmorphine
economicmorphine's picture

Do a simple test.  Ask 10 of your friends if they're buying gold.  When I did this, I went oh for 10.  I suspect my experience isn't all that unique.  I visit 2 coins shops from time to time.  They both tell me the same thing.  Joe the Plumber is a seller, not a buyer.  Just saying.

Tue, 06/01/2010 - 17:11 | 387803 Temporalist
Temporalist's picture

I have been begging my friends and family for years now and I don't think but one said they would even consider it until 2 weeks ago I got someone to say they want to but the price is too high - which of course sent me into a long explanation about the dollar, fiat currency, etc.  The last email I sent, telling them to buy at $1030 the nominal all time high back then, I was ridiculed.

Gold is consolidating into fewer and fewer hands as the poor and needy sell their gold because they need to pay off the credit card bill to pay for the 50" LCD or vacation or the prior year's Starbucks expense or rent.

Silver will explode soon.  The PM meme grows.

Tue, 06/01/2010 - 17:31 | 387887 SecretGoldfish
SecretGoldfish's picture

my family also has deaf ears, at best.  like frogs in the amazon, when they start asking me where to buy color, i'll see it as an indicator of change.


Tue, 06/01/2010 - 18:27 | 388030 silvertrain
silvertrain's picture

 Silver is gonna blow..

Tue, 06/01/2010 - 22:10 | 388454 tmosley
tmosley's picture

I convinced my father to buy XX oz (a large amount) of silver.  I was stunned when he finally acquiesced and came up with such a large number.  At least I know now that our family won't be poor (and knocking at my silver lined door) in the future.

Edit:  I thought better of disclosing the amount...

Tue, 06/01/2010 - 17:36 | 387894 43 Steelie
43 Steelie's picture

0 for 10 here as well. I got a friend to dabble in silver but he only bought 10 oz and I doubt will buy anymore.

0 for 50 if you include people at work (supposedly intelligent professionals who have been in the finance industry for on average 15-20 years).

I keep saying that once they start asking me where to buy is when I might have to stop accumulating.

Tue, 06/01/2010 - 18:14 | 387919 nuinut
nuinut's picture

I have had more success in that regard.

Give them this... Aristotle on Gold

Tue, 06/01/2010 - 19:44 | 388179 Barmaher
Barmaher's picture

Aristotle was a scuba diver?

Tue, 06/01/2010 - 18:55 | 388098 Gold...Bitches
Gold...Bitches's picture

Same here.  I've only got two people to dip in out of the many I speak to about this.  One is my brother and the other is a friend from 1st grade to today.  Both would regularly listen when i told them to buy or sell some stock for the last fifteen years.  Then I tell them to get some gold, and they dont want to do it and drag their feet.  Both finally did, but DAMN, it was a lot of work to get them to put a toe in the water.


Tue, 06/01/2010 - 20:07 | 388233 DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture

1 out of about 10 for me.

Tue, 06/01/2010 - 19:56 | 388211 junkyard dog
junkyard dog's picture

That's ok, zero of my asshole friends are buying gold and they have the money. But what is worse is, I bought a Howard Beale shirt with the grim reaper riding on the top of an ambulance labeled Euro and Ben Bernanke holding on to the back waving. Not one person who looked at the shirt understood the meaning; about 20 people. I got so tired of explaining it I took the fucking shirt off.

Just like when I wear my 0H hat. People ask, are from Ohio?

Damnit, now I have gotten myself upset again. I'll be back in a minute. I am going to go stick my paw in a light socket. It helps me relax.



Tue, 06/01/2010 - 22:22 | 388480 ApplesConspiracy
ApplesConspiracy's picture

I feel your pain, I have had all too many similar T-shirt experiences with a crowd that doesn't "get it"

Wed, 06/02/2010 - 15:23 | 390146 SWRichmond
SWRichmond's picture

I wear my ZH Tshirt as a filter; same results.

Tue, 06/01/2010 - 21:35 | 388394 Pat Hand
Pat Hand's picture

3 for 10.  but I have smart friends

Wed, 06/02/2010 - 02:22 | 388825 dumpster
dumpster's picture

who has ten friends lol

Tue, 06/01/2010 - 17:02 | 387781 callistenes
callistenes's picture

The mint will claim to have 'run out' of blanks. Just like they did a few years ago.

Tue, 06/01/2010 - 17:27 | 387871 nuinut
nuinut's picture

They may be telling the truth....

Tue, 06/01/2010 - 18:21 | 388015 RockyRacoon
RockyRacoon's picture

They were telling the truth.  (Those are called planchets, by the way.)  The mint buys planchets from several suppliers and the suppliers were having trouble getting bullion.  The U. S. Mint is mandated to make and provide for sale according to demand.  But when the planchet supplies became scarce they had to do without.  There was some rumor that a Canadian supplier was consulted but a kerfuffle ensued.  The gold and silver for U. S. legal tender coins is by law to be provided from U. S. mined bullion.  The Mint has secured planchets aplenty lately and there should not be a problem unless the demand spikes considerably.

Tue, 06/01/2010 - 18:57 | 388101 Gold...Bitches
Gold...Bitches's picture

I somewhat agree with you.  If there were no problem, full steam ahead, then they'd go back to doing more than just the 1 oz size coin, etc...  Have they started back up with the commemoratives again?  Or are those off the table and just the 1oz eagles available?

Tue, 06/01/2010 - 23:17 | 388587 RockyRacoon
RockyRacoon's picture

Other than the First Spouse gold coins there are no gold commemoratives made currently.  These are not what you'd want for anything other than as a collectible.  Premiums are too high but that is what they were minted for.  There are various silver commemoratives, however.   Generally whatever some special interest group can squeeze a few Congress Critters to pass a law for. 

2010 First Spouse Series One-Half Ounce Gold Proof Coin

Tue, 06/01/2010 - 19:12 | 388131 Hephasteus
Hephasteus's picture

The mining operations seem a bit strange.

Alot of backhoes but they abuse thier equipment and have breakdowns.

Here they are trying to get over a nasty swap operation to get to the rich veins.

Here they are eating people out of house and home in the new K-mart mine.

Tue, 06/01/2010 - 17:03 | 387786 Ancona
Ancona's picture

The only safe haven from fiat collapse is [and not necessarily in order]






High speed lead delivery devices

A companion

Tue, 06/01/2010 - 18:28 | 388036 tomb traider
tomb traider's picture

High speed lead delivery devices.. Priceless

Tue, 06/01/2010 - 18:59 | 388107 Gold...Bitches
Gold...Bitches's picture

Ummm.... I think you forgot something.  As long as you are an organic life form (I am assuming here) you might want to add water to your list.

Wed, 06/02/2010 - 02:24 | 388826 dumpster
dumpster's picture

High speed lead delivery devices

A companion

but you repeat yourself

Tue, 06/01/2010 - 17:04 | 387787 Mongo
Mongo's picture

Israels days are counted. When first nukes/missiles from Iran head for Israel you will see gold fly high

Tue, 06/01/2010 - 17:11 | 387822 tmosley
tmosley's picture

I think the nukes will be going the other way, actually.

Tue, 06/01/2010 - 17:13 | 387831 Mongo
Mongo's picture

why not both ways!



Tue, 06/01/2010 - 17:23 | 387866 Pladizow
Pladizow's picture

Pick up line at a gay bar?

Tue, 06/01/2010 - 17:19 | 387848 DosZap
DosZap's picture


Damn straight, problem is, IZZY has waited too long....should have conventionally bombed the hell out of their reactor sites, last summer.

The ENTIRE middle east, is afraid of Persia.............going nuclear.

Esp the House of Saud................

I wish we had a POTUS w/nads, this issue should have been handled LONG ago.

Tue, 06/01/2010 - 17:55 | 387945 ratava
ratava's picture

I wish we had a POTUS w/nads  were not paranoid, this issue should would have been handled LONG ago.

Tue, 06/01/2010 - 21:32 | 388388 trav7777
trav7777's picture

Iran doesn't have a delivery vehicle nor a weaponized device

Tue, 06/01/2010 - 17:05 | 387792 Sudden Debt
Sudden Debt's picture

The money that goes into gold, isn't going into the market and also isn't in savings accounts.

The more money there goes into gold, the more deflation it creates as it is a liquidator of money.

It's just looking for the tipping point where de inflation of gold gets so high that de overall defaltion makes it so attractive to sell the gold that money floods into the markets and creates Hyperinflation.


Tue, 06/01/2010 - 17:13 | 387828 tmosley
tmosley's picture

Buying gold does not create deflation.  The person selling the gold still has the cash, and can do what he will with it.  Only by burning it or putting it in his mattress will it be deflationary.

Tue, 06/01/2010 - 19:45 | 388182 PhattyBuoy
PhattyBuoy's picture

... the "velocity" of gold stashed in your safe is zero ... so it is deflationary.

Tue, 06/01/2010 - 22:14 | 388464 tmosley
tmosley's picture

In terms of gold, yes, but the dollars remain in circulation, so they do not deflate..

Tue, 06/01/2010 - 17:16 | 387843 Stevm30
Stevm30's picture

Was that a serious comment? Money doesn't just "disappear" into gold like some magic trick!  It goes into someone else's hands.  Think about it.

Tue, 06/01/2010 - 17:50 | 387931 Sudden Debt
Sudden Debt's picture

I sell you one oz bar for 10$ and you stick to it till it goes to 20$

You can't use it in the store so you keep it locked up.

The 20$ will never circulate untill you sell it. you store it. Your first 10$ also doesn't move neither does your profit of 10$. So your first 10$ is frozen in that bar. = deflationary

Once you feel like selling, most probably it will be because everybody else also feels like selling. Now suddenly your first 10$ gets back into circulation but also the newly created 10$ profit.

20$ enter circulation of which 10$ new. Suddenly all that new money hits the market = Inflation


Tue, 06/01/2010 - 18:09 | 387988 ozziindaus
ozziindaus's picture

My first $10 is now YOUR's. What you do with it is your business.

My additional $10 profit had to come from somewhere meaning someone has sacrificed $20 for gold over something else. I now have $20-$10 in my pocket. I have not created money. Remember, people don't create money, only banks create it through credit. Therefore unless there has been an expansion of credit, then the original money supply remains equal.


Tue, 06/01/2010 - 17:20 | 387855 ozziindaus
ozziindaus's picture

The more money there goes into gold, the more deflation it creates as it is a liquidator of money.

I don't think that statement is correct nor would the opposite apply. You buying gold reduces your liquidity but increases that of the seller. 

Tue, 06/01/2010 - 17:42 | 387897 nuinut
nuinut's picture

You feel there is no possibility of any sort of paradigm shift, ozzi?

One in which, perhaps, the status of the dollar was somewhat diminished?


The only fundamental about markets which matters is that they need an honest form of money in order to function at all. - Bill Buckler

Aristotle on Gold

Tue, 06/01/2010 - 18:43 | 388069 ozziindaus
ozziindaus's picture

The possibility is certainly there but world governance is not dictated through ZH. All the atrocities and injustices will always remain as long as it benefits the manipulators. It's a pay to play system and any rogue nation trying to change this will be defeated swiftly regardless of all the good intensions and means. 

What's logical and righteous to the common person is laughable if not naive to the perpetrators. Without sounding like I'm about to put a gun to my head, I feel somewhat hopeless to make a change. Mind you, this happens, to some extent, on many levels whether it be the workplace, city hall or geopolitical. The age of enlightenment is behind us and the new age of truth is beyond least for now. I've accepted it and my recipe for success has adjusted to suit it even though my BTU's are controlled by the gas company if that makes any sense. 

Tue, 06/01/2010 - 18:55 | 388096 akak
akak's picture

I know I have blasted you elsewhere here on ZH, but in this comment I sympathize and agree with you totally.  I too feel like I am living in an increasingly and grossly unjust society, controlled and ruled by sociopaths who have convinced the masses that they are doing the good instead of acting as society's destroyers.  The homicidal inmates are running the asylum.  Crime (at least for the elites) is rewarded, and the honesty, integrity and hard work of the average man is punished.  Evil has been crowned king.

Tue, 06/01/2010 - 17:39 | 387901 Spitzer
Spitzer's picture

Gold does not reduce your liquidity. If you drive to your bank and withdraw $1227 dollars or sell them an oz of gold, it amounts to the same thing.

Tue, 06/01/2010 - 17:44 | 387912 ozziindaus
ozziindaus's picture

under the assumption that gold is as liquid as cash then yes otherwise you have the burden of finding a greater fool I mean buyer. Just kidding. 

Tue, 06/01/2010 - 17:21 | 387856 WaltzTangoFoxtrot
WaltzTangoFoxtrot's picture

The "tipping point" is when citizens begin to hold onto gold as the value accelerates.  Whether that will be from base asset appreciation, or due to scarcity appreciation, is anyones guess.  

Tue, 06/01/2010 - 18:22 | 388019 duo
duo's picture

208K oz, or about $250M?  That is about 90 minutes worth of treasury issuance at $1.5T a year.


Gold is in the noise until it isn't (around $10K/oz).

Tue, 06/01/2010 - 17:05 | 387794 unwashedmass
unwashedmass's picture


ah, Ben? the peasants don't seem to be quite as dumb as you think they are....or as you need them to be....

what now?

Tue, 06/01/2010 - 17:05 | 387795 Pladizow
Pladizow's picture

Suspicion toward a currency, once awakened, develops insomnia. - James Dines.

A rally led by fear will be far stronger then one led by greed. - James Dines.

Tue, 06/01/2010 - 17:09 | 387808 SecretGoldfish
SecretGoldfish's picture

that sounds vaguely familiar, almost like i've read is *somewhere* before

Tue, 06/01/2010 - 17:06 | 387798 john milton
john milton's picture

do you own a bank in canada, td??


The TD Bank was the first to announce a quarter-point hike in its prime lending rate to 2.5 per cent, effective Wednesday, after the Bank of Canada increased its trendsetting rate an identical amount to 0.5 per cent Tuesday morning.


any gold inside?? ;)))

Tue, 06/01/2010 - 17:10 | 387813 Cheeky Bastard
Cheeky Bastard's picture

Yes, thats his.

I got 1 billion in options when the bank IPOd.

Im just waiting for the strike price, which is 1300$/oz.

Yes, the stock is in 1-1 correlation with gold.

Tue, 06/01/2010 - 17:19 | 387849 THE DORK OF CORK
THE DORK OF CORK's picture

Can anybody give me a rational explanation as to why Israel holds exactly Zero Gold reserves ?

Tue, 06/01/2010 - 17:28 | 387874 Rusty_Shackleford
Rusty_Shackleford's picture

At least none that they're telling anyone else about.


I think it's kind of like how they hold exactly Zero nuclear weapons, right?

Tue, 06/01/2010 - 17:42 | 387905 THE DORK OF CORK
THE DORK OF CORK's picture

Yes I suspect they hold the mother load but that does not explain why the official figures are not questioned by ANYBODY.

I accept they control all western capitals through monetary mechanisms but this does not explain this silence as they are not omnipotent.

Then again I may be just naive.

Tue, 06/01/2010 - 18:11 | 387991 nuinut
nuinut's picture

Other motherload contenders?



Queen of England

Old money ala Rothchilds etc.

Who knows what these guys are holding? They have the means, they've had the time.

others anyone?

Tue, 06/01/2010 - 18:22 | 388021 ozziindaus
ozziindaus's picture

The whole damn thing is so suspicious. The richest countries all dumped their loads at the worst time only to be picked up by the emerging markets. Could this have been a condition of the Wests investment into these countries by use of gold as collateral? 

Tue, 06/01/2010 - 18:28 | 388037 RockyRacoon
RockyRacoon's picture

What does Another / FOA / FOFOA say about the oil/gold relationship?  Perhaps the Middle East is now the mother lode of gold holdings.  Could that be the REAL reason we are there?

Wed, 06/02/2010 - 15:30 | 390163 SWRichmond
SWRichmond's picture

gratzs on spelling "lode" correctly, you're the first

Tue, 06/01/2010 - 22:47 | 388525 False_Profit
False_Profit's picture

...might i humbly submit that china should be at the top of the list?  they have been the world's number one producer...however, they are notorious about hiding actual numbers as well.

i stand by my prediction that the chicoms will stand up and announce one day soon, that they have x,xxx tons of gold in reserve and they invite the world to inspect it...and then turn around and call the ust's ft. knox bluff...they will not care about protecting their $frn reserves at that point as the value of their gold reserves will far outstrip the losses they will take on their ~$1T...

Tue, 06/01/2010 - 18:51 | 388085 Bendromeda Strain
Bendromeda Strain's picture

Good on ya for the nifty pointer Rusty. Physical is going to ratchet.up.the.pressure.

Tue, 06/01/2010 - 17:31 | 387877 ozziindaus
ozziindaus's picture

Yeh no kiddin. From a country that experienced hyperinflation only 25 so years ago, you'd think they'll be all over the shit. My suspicion is this and I'll give you a hint. Starts with M and rhymes with anipulators.

Tue, 06/01/2010 - 17:31 | 387881 nuinut
nuinut's picture

Why exactly do you expect them to be telling the truth?

Israel not known for full disclosure of anything.

Tue, 06/01/2010 - 17:34 | 387892 Thisson
Thisson's picture

Because they have the only thing worth *more* than gold: water in the middle of a desert.

Tue, 06/01/2010 - 20:04 | 388230 Temporalist
Temporalist's picture

Their people hold their reserves.  At any time, if they asked, millions of people around the world would send them 1oz or more.  That is not fact just what I can imagine from experience.

Tue, 06/01/2010 - 17:21 | 387859 Caviar Emptor
Caviar Emptor's picture

Gold will become the currency of choice when it becomes necessary to negotiate with Russian oligarchs, Saudi Sheiks, Chinese party boys or rogue nuclear agents.

A country that goes back on anything resembling a gold standard will become the de-facto safe-haven for huge capital flows. 


Tue, 06/01/2010 - 18:13 | 388000 Mako
Mako's picture

Most countries were on the gold standard last time, all of their systems collapsed.  What you are trying to do is rewrite history. 

Russia will collaspe AGAIN, Saudi will collapse and China will collapse.

Tue, 06/01/2010 - 18:52 | 388090 MarketTruth
MarketTruth's picture

And perhaps the USA will need to quit this third central bank scheme and enact the fouth central bank system that has been installed over the years. Yup, the USA is on their third central bank right now, so history shows the USA is not such a safe haven afterall.

Tue, 06/01/2010 - 22:20 | 388476 tmosley
tmosley's picture

They collapsed because they spent more dollars than they had gold to back it up.  A gold backed currency never collapses, it only becomes a fiat currency.  The fiat currency can then either collapse immediately, or limp along as ours has.

If you had actual gold in your hands, perhaps even with the dollar (or other currency) value stamped on it by a government mint, you maintained your purchasing power, or increased it as gold deflated in real terms, even as the currency hyperinflated.

Tue, 06/01/2010 - 22:49 | 388531 False_Profit
False_Profit's picture

...might i suggest the movie "rollover", circa 1981...

Tue, 06/01/2010 - 17:22 | 387861 TexDenim
TexDenim's picture

So why isn't someone chartering planes to Athens loaded with gold coins?

Tue, 06/01/2010 - 17:34 | 387884 Rusty_Shackleford
Rusty_Shackleford's picture

And end up like this guy?

Not worth it.  I think you'd stand a good chance of losing it all.

Tue, 06/01/2010 - 18:26 | 388029 akak
akak's picture

But what crime did this guy commit?

What were the charges against him?

Tue, 06/01/2010 - 18:39 | 388057 Rusty_Shackleford
Rusty_Shackleford's picture

I wondered this as well. 


I believe it's called the:

"Havin' Money and Gubmint' Wantin' it Act"

or the HMGW Act.


I'm sure it sounds better in Spanish.

Tue, 06/01/2010 - 18:49 | 388072 akak
akak's picture

"El Acto de Tener Dinero y El Gobierno Lo Querrer",


"Denoslo el oro, gringo!"

Tue, 06/01/2010 - 18:59 | 388106 Rusty_Shackleford
Rusty_Shackleford's picture



You see.  I told you it would sound better in Spanish.

Wed, 06/02/2010 - 15:38 | 390198 SWRichmond
SWRichmond's picture

Government = terrorism

Tue, 06/01/2010 - 17:30 | 387879 dumpster
dumpster's picture


the somebodys probably do not have a pot to pizz in

and you , .

who wants to go to athens and sell gold ,  just buy it here ...protect your assets

and nobody would be telling you or me if they were leasing a plane a going to athens to sell gold




Tue, 06/01/2010 - 18:52 | 388088 nwskii
nwskii's picture

Hey thanks for all the replies! Not one negative "your a dumb ass" ! I thought I would get creamed for asking it!

Tue, 06/01/2010 - 20:07 | 388235 Temporalist
Temporalist's picture

Dumbass!  Happy now?

Tue, 06/01/2010 - 20:28 | 388270 nwskii
nwskii's picture

Very! Oh and Double dumb ass on you!

Tue, 06/01/2010 - 22:30 | 388491 ApplesConspiracy
ApplesConspiracy's picture

What colorful metaphors!

Tue, 06/01/2010 - 17:47 | 387923 nwskii
nwskii's picture

HI everyone, been reading for a while and enjoy all your comments. This is really a great site! I have a question on Gold. Would anyone put it past this shame govt to ban and recall gold? They did once before. 

Tue, 06/01/2010 - 17:51 | 387936 Quinvarius
Quinvarius's picture

When gold became legal to own again, Congress also passed a law that specifically banned the President from ever pulling that stunt again at the same time.

Tue, 06/01/2010 - 17:57 | 387956 Rusty_Shackleford
Rusty_Shackleford's picture

To even hint at any such thing would be to admit complete defeat/currency collapse.


Because, this would have to mean that the dollar was no longer being accepted as a form of international settlement.

The conditions which would prompt TPTB to even consider such a thing would mean that all is lost.

As soon as something like that is even whispered about, the jig is up for Uncle Sugar.

Tue, 06/01/2010 - 18:07 | 387981 DosZap
DosZap's picture


Under the Emergency Powers Act, Unca Sugar, would weave a tale to make a $2.00 hooker blush.

I do not trust them at all, every Admin has end arounded the Founding DOcs, and Laws.

This one, ignores it, as if it was never written.........but, talks a good story.

Tue, 06/01/2010 - 18:39 | 388056 silvertrain
silvertrain's picture


Tue, 06/01/2010 - 22:39 | 388089 Rusty_Shackleford
Rusty_Shackleford's picture

Oh sure, don't get me wrong.  When/if they feel the need, they may make some kind of attempt.  But, like I said, if there really was a need, that need can only have come about because the FRN's that they can conjure at will and at no cost, are no longer wanted, and when that happens, it's all over but the shouting. 

It would mean the entire world had lost faith in the "full faith and credit" of the US.


Do you see what I mean?

Tue, 06/01/2010 - 22:29 | 388490 clagr
clagr's picture

"a $2.00 hooker"  -- wow, talk about inflation!

Tue, 06/01/2010 - 17:58 | 387958 ozziindaus
ozziindaus's picture

If by ban or recall you mean confiscation then your shameful government by definition can do whatever it likes. The question should be is it allowed to or will it do it unlawfully? Remember the gold confiscation of the 30's was completely lawful since it was the condition of a gold backed currency. Since the money supply could not be expanded without the replenishment of additional gold, then they had no choice but to grab it. 

Tue, 06/01/2010 - 18:09 | 387987 Hephasteus
Hephasteus's picture

No it was only allowed because it was relatively voluntary and it is a loan. Treasury is on the hook for every ounce of gold that was confiscated in 1933. EVERY ounce. And if their charter is revoked they have to pay up.

Once congress wakes up they'll figure out that all they have to do to save themselves and lawfully issue currency according to the consititution is to ruin the FED. The FED gets around this by loaning the same gold to a bajillion counterparties so it can't be tracked in an attempt to have it without a pathway to get to it.

Tue, 06/01/2010 - 18:34 | 388040 akak
akak's picture

The US federal government NEVER "confiscated" gold, in the sense of breaking down doors and going home to home searching for it --- they simply ordered the surrender of privately-held gold, an illegal and immoral order which the majority of those holding gold at the time wisely and rightfully refused to honor. 

Does anything really think that if the fedgov tried this again, they would receive almost ANYTHING?

They cannot confiscate that which they cannot find.

Tue, 06/01/2010 - 19:08 | 388125 ozziindaus
ozziindaus's picture

Immoral yes but illegal no. By virtue of law, it's lawful. Many refused but no one got away with it. They won't try it again because there is no need to. You should know that. 

What concerns me more is the "rightful owner" vs "barer of" laws concerning US minted coins ie American Eagles. Wouldn't you be pissed if you were paid face value for them? 

Tue, 06/01/2010 - 19:52 | 388201 akak
akak's picture

"What concerns me more is the "rightful owner" vs "barer of" laws concerning US minted coins ie American Eagles. Wouldn't you be pissed if you were paid face value for them?"

I'm not sure to what you are referring to here.

Why would ANYONE accept the face value for a gold coin whose bullion value is over 20X the face value?

Tue, 06/01/2010 - 20:37 | 388281 ozziindaus
ozziindaus's picture

Because they may not belong to you, like FR notes. You are the "Bearer of". That's my argument. It may not even need to be stated verbally but by the presence of the US seal. It's a stretch but then again, desperate times call for desperate measures.

Tue, 06/01/2010 - 21:38 | 388398 trav7777
trav7777's picture

Oh it's worse...they ordered its surrender to the FEDERAL RESERVE, at that time not even ARGUABLY a non-private institution.

Tue, 06/01/2010 - 17:49 | 387929 Quinvarius
Quinvarius's picture

I am sure they would have sold more if they had any.  You still cannot buy them on the mint website.  At least the Buffalos are having a batch released on the 3rd.

Tue, 06/01/2010 - 18:03 | 387973 DosZap
DosZap's picture

They are available elsewhere, why buy from the Mint?,unless you get a DEAL..........?.

Tue, 06/01/2010 - 18:32 | 388046 RockyRacoon
RockyRacoon's picture

The bullion coins are not sold directly to the public, they are distributed by an authorized dealer network.  Only specialty coins, commemorative coins, and proof coins are sold by the Mint itself.

Tue, 06/01/2010 - 17:51 | 387937 Hansel
Hansel's picture

Nice find Mr. Shackleford.  That is all.

Tue, 06/01/2010 - 17:58 | 387959 Rusty_Shackleford
Rusty_Shackleford's picture


Tue, 06/01/2010 - 18:36 | 388048 RockyRacoon
RockyRacoon's picture

Coin World is a weekly that regularly publishes the Mint's sales data and other articles of interest on coinage, both for investment and collectors.

I prefer the print version, but the website also provides (for subscribers) constantly updated values for numismatic coins, bullion, mint sets, etc.

Tue, 06/01/2010 - 18:00 | 387964 DosZap
DosZap's picture

Very interesting article from Jim Willie..........if you have not read it, I would.

Tue, 06/01/2010 - 18:35 | 388042 ED
ED's picture

what the dickens happened in 1999?! oh yeah, y2k - wouldnt wanna go through that again - lol!

Tue, 06/01/2010 - 19:03 | 388102 Rusty_Shackleford
Rusty_Shackleford's picture

Yeah I know, because all those fools that bought gold at $250/oz back in 1999 lost their freaking shirts!!!


Oh,... wait.

Wed, 06/02/2010 - 15:42 | 390208 SWRichmond
SWRichmond's picture

Yeah, and my storage food is...still in storage!  Dammit!

Tue, 06/01/2010 - 18:59 | 388108 akak
akak's picture

I wonder how many current "goldbugs" bought into the whole Y2k Armageddon hype.

I always thought it was a bunch of nonsense from the beginning --- just some computer geeks overly absorbed in their e-world, who could not see that keyboards do not control every facet of society.

Wed, 06/02/2010 - 02:35 | 388121 Rusty_Shackleford
Rusty_Shackleford's picture

Agreed.  Never worried me.


I remember the hospital I was working at had purchased hundreds and hundreds of extra flashlights for every patient room and hallway in expectation that the lights would go out.


They ended up with a lot of extra flashlights to give away to the staff.


(they should have taken that money and bought some GE's - then they would have been able to build a new wing on that place)

Tue, 06/01/2010 - 20:12 | 388225 Miss Expectations
Miss Expectations's picture

I wonder how many current "goldbugs" bought into the whole Y2k Armageddon hype.

I have a friend who worked for one of the exchanges.  His job involved the computer systems that saved all the trading data.  As part of the Y2K project, he had to develop redundancy/backup systems.  This meant the info would not be stored downtown.  Backup storage was developed and maintained outside of Manhattan.  Had the Y2K Armageddon hype not existed, there is NO WAY the exchanges would have be up and running within days after 9/11.  It was up again because the info was saved elsewhere and was retrievable.

Now, thanks to Cognitive Dissonance, I have to wonder if the Y2K Hype served a more sinister purpose.  Perhaps it was needed to get all the financial systems ready for something that was going to happen?  Something that happened 1 1/2 years later.  I have to imagine that the financial systems around the world have been similarly backed up. 


Wed, 06/02/2010 - 06:11 | 388948 GoldBricker
GoldBricker's picture

I like it, never heard that theory.

Regarding Y2K in general, it's possible that the over-cautiousness actually did prevent some problems, but it's impossible to say.

Suppose, for example, that BP had taken extra precautions, such that the oil spill never happened. Most of us would think that there was never any risk in the first place. It's a known cognitive bias. Risks we've personally experienced are rated much more likely to happen than those that we've never seen.

Tue, 06/01/2010 - 19:15 | 388138 StarvingLion
StarvingLion's picture

My best source of German bank information believes firmly that Spethmann's action will lead to the Euro currenty being split into a Northern Euro and a Latin Euro (aka Club Med Euro disrespectfully). The current Euro currency is not a homogeneous entity. Backing all fiat currencies is debt and the formal bond securities. The different Euro Notes are clearly identifiable by nation, marked by a letter in front of the serial number. The Germany denotation letter is X. My German contact, the banker contact was personally at the table for three days in April where the battle plan was designed, decided, and agreed upon. The risk, if not intrigue, centers on an aspect involved that might constitute high treason by certain politicians and upper level civil servants. The German banker contact provided a summary after attending certain high level meetings, as impressions with notes were gathered. His steady sharing of information has been very valuable on matters pertaining to gold, currencies, and bank assets in Central Europe. He wrote, "The first complaint unhinged the Lisbon Treaty that only was implemented after we turned it into a Swiss Cheese, except with 1000 times more holes in it than normal, from heavy motions. The actual Lisbon Treaty enacted looks more than having been treated with a double barrel shotgun multiple times. It will not stand the test of time. However, this time there is a juicy component added which deals with criminal elements and high treason committed by high ranking, political government members, and civil servants. With the Greek situation in the crapper and Portugal , Spain , and Italy to follow shortly, it is safe to assume that the constitutional court in Karlsruhe will be more careful in giving the complaint the attention it deserves. The politicians ( Berlin, Brussels, ECB-Ffm) are pretty much defenseless this time and The Group will push them easily over the cliff. The EURO is toast in its current composition. There will be a Northern Euro made for use by Germany , Netherlands , with Austria and Finland too, split from the Club Med Euro where all the losers will unite. Those Latins must learn to pay for their own keep. Their citizens will not like it. The Northern Euro will eventually be commodity backed with Russia coming into the equation. The route that will be taken is via Helsinki, since in Finland they have all wires in the box already. The remaining piece is connection by German and Russian 'electricians.' The entire issue is one of economic survival of the people in the Northern European countries, whose nations have been drained by support of ineffective southern neighbors that has essentially been nothing short of welfare costing $300 to $400 billion annually. Nothing more and nothing less. Furthermore, if NATO is not scrapped, we shall see Russia becoming a full member not before long. [The Polish leader plane crash] will encourage Poland to be more cooperative in the new direction. What is in store is a re-run of history with more modern means. This all quite interesting." In an exchange last week, the German banker contact revealed that June 30th of 2011 is the date set in the construction of the Northern Euro, in the documents, in the formal support mechanisms in the FOREX and commodity markets, and in the contractual agreements with member nations tied to their central banks. The new accord will involve more autonomy, enforcement, and activity by member nation central banks in maintaining the balance among the Northern Euro, the Latin Euro, and other major currencies. Gone will be the bureaucratic Euro Central Bank, the centralized body located in Brussels Belgium . Although the German Bundesbank is the lead dog in the EuroCB sled, the central bank has been highly politicized. The new Northern Euro currency will be jointly managed. Strong cooperation has existed for decades between The Netherlands and Germany . The Benelux natios will partner for lead control of the new Euro. Expect the Northern Euro to rise in valuation strongly upon its launch versus the USDollar, something like 20% to 30% over three to six months. Expect the Latin Euro to fall in valuation, something like 20% to 50%, really, over three to six months. Pay close attention to the role played by Russia and Gold in the Northern Euro currency in the plan. THE NEW NORTHERN EURO WILL EMERGE FROM THE EXISTING EURO CURRENCY, BUT WITH A GOLD COMPONENT. When pressed on the launch date, the German banker said no formal announcements ahead of time are being planned. It is expected in 14 months, with little advanced warning. My view is that crisis events could dictate an earlier launch, or at least more formal news of its imminent launch in order to achieve some greater currency stability. What is really needed is 'When Issued' Northern Euro and Latin Euro currency trading vehicles. The new Northern Euro will provide intense, sudden, and powerful competition for the USDollar. When the New Euro arrives, the USDollar will resume its deep long-term decline. The US $ has benefited undeservedly from the Euro distress and disruptions in the perverse and vicious Competing Currency War. When the Northern Euro arrives, especially if it contains key commodity components like gold and crude oil, the US $ will suffer immediately enter a crisis stage. A run on the USTreasury Bond would then be extremely likely. The sequence will define the monetary crisis toward climax

Tue, 06/01/2010 - 19:29 | 388154 Rusty_Shackleford
Rusty_Shackleford's picture

Saw this piece posted as a comment under Ambrose-Pritchard's piece and in some other places as well. 

Are you the author, or COPY/PASTING?

Is this Jim Willie's stuff?

Tue, 06/01/2010 - 22:14 | 388465 Pure Evil
Pure Evil's picture

Definitely a cut and paste from Jim Willie.

Click on link and search for:



Tue, 06/01/2010 - 19:34 | 388172 Quinvarius
Quinvarius's picture

A gold backed currency with liquidity anywhere on the planet is the death knell for the dollar.

Tue, 06/01/2010 - 23:58 | 388664 snowball777
snowball777's picture


Tue, 06/01/2010 - 21:02 | 388325 Buck Johnson
Buck Johnson's picture

That sounds like an alternate plan than Germany leaving the euro.  I think from the beginning they where wanting just France and Germany and a few other countries to be part of this euro, then the other countries cried how unfair and racist it was.  Then those countries saw how it would benefit them to have those countries in the Euro and decided to let them in.  The southern countries wanted a way to get cheap money, the northern countries wanted to sell their goods.  Both where undone by their greed.  But it does sound plausible that it could be done.

Tue, 06/01/2010 - 21:28 | 388379 Fred Hayek
Fred Hayek's picture

To be fair, it's not as though the euro was an alloyed benefit for the PIIGS.  It worked to prevent those countries from undercutting Germany's exports by making their costs higher than they should have been. 

And what will the german banks be doing about all the euros the PIIGS owe them but which they won't get back? 

And what does it mean for a currency to have a "gold component"?  Is this like a currency being only a little bit pregnant with fiat aspects?  Is this like Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, those wonderful institutions that had public and private components?  Can a currency really be both a fiat instrument and gold backed?


Tue, 06/01/2010 - 20:55 | 388312 frosty zoom
frosty zoom's picture

tip toe through the tulips...

i bought my first eeelectric guitar thanks to the hunt brothers  -- was in grade eight and sold my silver coin collection for $43/oz.

that's about $130 in bennybucks.

tip toe through the tulips...

Tue, 06/01/2010 - 21:42 | 388403 trav7777
trav7777's picture

I bought all 190k oz guys, sorry...

They're all buried in my backyard

Wed, 06/02/2010 - 15:49 | 390223 SWRichmond
SWRichmond's picture

you prick


Tue, 06/01/2010 - 22:32 | 388496 Client 9
Client 9's picture

Ah yes, following the herd of general public masses always leads to enduring riches.  There's no gold bubble now of course.  It will go up up up forever just like real estate!  And all you need to do is click 'buy' on your etrade account.  So simple!  What could go wrong?

Tue, 06/01/2010 - 22:41 | 388513 trav7777
trav7777's picture

The part about clicking to buy physical gold in your etrade account, because you can't do that

Tue, 06/01/2010 - 22:56 | 388529 akak
akak's picture

Would you kindly point the way to the "herd of public masses" who are buying gold?  I seem to have missed seeing them, despite intensively looking for them.

What I HAVE seen is a "herd of public masses" still sitting in equities, bonds, money market funds and US Treasuries.  Oh, and this same herd mocking and ridiculing the idea of owning gold, if they are even aware of it at all.

Perhaps you have been seeing something in an alternate reality?

Or has <1% now been redefined as a "herd"?

Oh, and this little speck here, right next to that gigantic, looming governmental debt bubble ---- is that the gold bubble you are talking about?  Here, come over this way, walk around the debt bubble .... that's it, you're almost there now .... careful, don't knock it over!  It's very fragile, you know! ..... yes, this wee little mote over here .... is THAT the gold bubble you are talking about?  Boy, I'm going to have to get out my magnifying glass to see that thing properly! .... shit, now I have to walk ALL  the way around this damned debt bubble again .... it's always getting in the way! .......

Wed, 06/02/2010 - 06:14 | 388949 GoldBricker
GoldBricker's picture

Not just the herd, but the herd-ed. How about all those folks who have these lovely assets bought for them by their insurers, pension funds, etc.? How many collective investments of this sort have physical, or even paper gold?

Tue, 06/01/2010 - 23:46 | 388642 dumpster
dumpster's picture

client  9  a true douchebag,, posing as some smart ass ,

first second and third  you hardly have a clue , and a clue you may have is lost in translation

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