US Mint Suspends Production Of American Eagle Gold And Silver Bullion Coins Due To "Unprecedented Demand"
It appears gold mania is spreading, and if this press release by the US Mint is any indication, it has hit the broad population. As a result, the administration is taking prompt "corrective" steps:
The United States Mint will not offer the following products in 2009: the one-ounce American Eagle Silver Proof Coin; the one-ounce American Eagle Silver Uncirculated Coin; the American Eagle Gold Proof Coins (all weights, as well as the four-coin set); the one-ounce American Eagle Gold Uncirculated Coin; the United States Mint Annual Uncirculated Dollar Coin SetTM, which also includes a one-ounce American Eagle Silver Uncirculated Coin; and the American Eagle Platinum Bullion Coins (all weights).
Because of unprecedented demand for American Eagle Gold and Silver Bullion Coins, the United States Mint suspended production of 2009 proof and uncirculated versions of these coins. All available 22-karat gold and silver bullion blanks are being allocated to the American Eagle Gold and American Eagle Silver Bullion Coin Programs, as mandated by Public Law 99-185 and Public Law 99-61, respectively. Both laws direct the agency to produce these coins in quantities sufficient to meet public demand. The proof and uncirculated versions of the American Eagle Gold and Silver Proof Coins are not mandated by law.
The Mint does promise to promptly reevaluate the supply/demand curve for gold and to allow the public to avoid having to keep its holding in the dollar:
The United States Mint is working diligently with current and potential blank suppliers to increase the supply of bullion coin blanks, so it can offer to the public the proof and uncirculated versions of American Eagle silver, gold, and platinum coins in 2010.
One wonders if the Federal Reserve will have anything to say about that. One also wonders if today's action by the Mint is merely a preamble to the modern version of this particular Presidential Executive Order 6102:
I, Franklin D. Roosevelt, President of the United States of America, do declare that said national emergency still continues to exist and pursuant to said section to do hereby prohibit the hoarding gold coin, gold bullion, and gold certificates within the continental United States by individuals, partnerships, associations and corporations and hereby prescribe the following regulations for carrying out the purposes of the order:
Section 1. For the purpose of this regulation, the term 'hoarding" means the withdrawal and withholding of gold coin, gold bullion, and gold certificates from the recognized and customary channels of trade. The term "person" means any individual, partnership, association or corporation.
Section 2. All persons are hereby required to deliver on or before May 1, 1933, to a Federal Reserve bank or a branch or agency thereof or to any member bank of the Federal Reserve System all gold coin, gold bullion, and gold certificates now owned by them or coming into their ownership on or before April 28, 1933, except the following:
(a) Such amount of gold as may be required for legitimate and customary use in industry, profession or art within a reasonable time, including gold prior to refining and stocks of gold in reasonable amounts for the usual trade requirements of owners mining and refining such gold.
(b) Gold coin and gold certificates in an amount not exceeding in the aggregate $100.00 belonging to any one person; and gold coins having recognized special value to collectors of rare and unusual coins.
(c) Gold coin and bullion earmarked or held in trust for a recognized foreign government or foreign central bank or the Bank for International Settlements.
(d) Gold coin and bullion licensed for the other proper transactions (not involving hoarding) including gold coin and gold bullion imported for the re-export or held pending action on applications for export license.
Section 3. Until otherwise ordered any person becoming the owner of any gold coin, gold bullion, and gold certificates after April 28, 1933, shall within three days after receipt thereof, deliver the same in the manner prescribed in Section 2; unless such gold coin, gold bullion, and gold certificates are held for any of the purposes specified in paragraphs (a),(b) or (c) of Section 2; or unless such gold coin, gold bullion is held for purposes specified in paragraph (d) of Section 2 and the person holding it is, with respect to such gold coin or bullion, a licensee or applicant for license pending action thereon.
Section 4. Upon receipt of gold coin, gold bullion, or gold certificates delivered to it in accordance with Section 2 or 3, the Federal reserve bank or member bank will pay thereof an equivalent amount of any other form of coin or currency coined or issued under the laws of the Unites States.
Section 5. Member banks shall deliver alt gold coin, gold bullion, and gold certificates owned or received by them (other than as exempted under the provisions of Section 2) to the Federal reserve banks of there respective districts and receive credit or payment thereof.
Section 6. The Secretary of the Treasury, out of the sum made available to the President by Section 501 of the Act of March 9, 1933, will in all proper cases pay the reasonable costs of transportation of gold coin, gold bullion, and gold certificates delivered to a member bank or Federal reserve bank in accordance with Sections 2, 3, or 5 hereof, including the cost of insurance, protection, and such other incidental costs as may be necessary, upon production of satisfactory evidence of such costs. Voucher forms for this purpose may be procured from Federal reserve banks.
Section 7. In cases where the delivery of gold coin, gold bullion, or gold certificates by the owners thereof within the time set forth above will involve extraordinary hardship or difficulty, the Secretary of the Treasury may, in his discretion, extend the time within which such delivery must be made. Applications for such extensions must be made in writing under oath; addressed to the Secretary of the Treasury and filed with a Federal reserve bank. Each applications must state the date to which the extension is desired, the amount and location of the gold coin, gold bullion, and gold certificates in respect of which such application is made and the facts showing extension to be necessary to avoid extraordinary hardship or difficulty.
Section 8. The Secretary of the Treasury is hereby authorized and empowered to issue such further regulations as he may deem necessary to carry the purposes of this order and to issue licenses there under, through such officers or agencies as he may designate, including licenses permitting the Federal reserve banks and member banks of the Federal Reserve System, in return for an equivalent amount of other coin, currency or credit, to deliver, earmark or hold in trust gold coin or bullion to or for persons showing the need for same for any of the purposes specified in paragraphs (a), (c), and (d) of Section 2 of these regulations.
Section 9. Whoever willfully violates any provision of this Executive Order or these regulation or of any rule, regulation or license issued there under may be fined not more than $10,000, or,if a natural person may be imprisoned for not more than ten years or both; and any officer, director, or agent of any corporation who knowingly participates in any such violation may be punished by a like fine, imprisonment, or both.
h/t Project Mayhem
(3 votes)
on Wed, 10/07/2009 - 10:00
#91352
The horror stories I've heard of people waiting to receive their orders for these placed and confirmed ages ago... The responses from the Mint have been mindblowing. And they always push the option of a refund first. Let me see if I can get my hands on an actual copy of some of their replies.
on Wed, 10/07/2009 - 10:04
#91355
Move to Canada... you can walk into a bank (Scotia)
and purchase gold and silver ( coins and bullion )
otc at pretty close to spot. (cheaper than over
the internet if you consider shipping) no tax on
bars either.
on Wed, 10/07/2009 - 10:26
#91404
Last I checked, after fees, Scotiabank 1oz gold maples were around 8% over spot including all fees. With a bit of shopping around, you should be able to find them for not much over 5%.
on Wed, 10/07/2009 - 11:04
#91428
Do you have to pay HST on them?
Thanks.
Edit: nevermind, I see that you don't. I was worried that Canada would try to impose their tax on you if you bought anything in Canada, but I called up a bank and found that is not the case.
Might be worth a trip up to get some, like you say, buying over the Internet is either expensive (to buy shipping insurance) or risky (not buying shipping insurnace).
on Wed, 10/07/2009 - 10:43
#91434
Provincial tax is applicable only in some of the provinces. No tax in BC. Not sure about the others.
on Wed, 10/07/2009 - 13:01
#91692
Or China or India for that matter. It's amazing how these "third world" countries are doing a better job of performing THE ACTIONS MANDATED IN THE US CONSTITUTION.
on Wed, 10/07/2009 - 14:14
#91817
Why is it that when Gold hits $1,040 CNBC starts talking about a bubble in Gold (Breaking News......Gold in Bubble? Next on CNBC) but not when the S&P is up 55% from the last bottom?
Just askin'.
on Wed, 10/07/2009 - 10:07
#91359
Maples are 24k but I heard it's subject to massive tax bringing them into the US.
on Wed, 10/07/2009 - 10:20
#91384
Not true.
You can get Maples North of the border, or you can get the in the US from most big dealers.
You'll pay sales tax that varies by state, but there are dealers for pickup or delivery in states with no sales tax (i.e. Delaware).
If you cross the border with under $10K worth of the gold, you need not declare it.
As to how to value the gold, that is an open question with much debate, since there is a face value to the coin which does not match the bullion value, which does not match the street value.
Relative to other coins, the markup on Maples is low - with many claiming that they scratch easily... but I find them by far the nicest looking of the mainstream gold coins and easy to get a hold of.
on Wed, 10/07/2009 - 10:25
#91397
Great info!
on Wed, 10/07/2009 - 10:29
#91410
Yes, 24 carat does scratch much more easily than 22 carat. You will loose some of the premium if you damage it (i.e. by dropping on a hard surface or scratching it with other coins/keys) so look after your investment.
on Wed, 10/07/2009 - 10:37
#91425
I am a big fan of Maples as well.
on Wed, 10/07/2009 - 10:44
#91439
I third that. Beautiful creatures, those.
on Wed, 10/07/2009 - 10:48
#91448
I like Maple Leafs because that .9999 purity just means more gold, baby :)
I COULD BE WRONG, BUT I think the face value of the coinage is what you need to declare. So if you have $10,000 street value of bullion--for the sake of simplicity let's say ten 1oz coins--the face value would be $50 X 10 = $500. Nothing to declare, move along.
I am Chumbawamba.
on Wed, 10/07/2009 - 11:04
#91473
That works for the Maple Leaf & Eagle but the Krugerand has no face value.
on Wed, 10/07/2009 - 11:20
#91495
Then that makes it a worthless rock. Nothing to declare, move along.
I am Chumbawamba.
on Wed, 10/07/2009 - 11:54
#91567
Now that's funny.
Yo peoples, how about www.tulving.com? Talk to Hannes and he'll take care of you. So easy to deal with and you'll have your shit in a couple of days assuming he has it in stock and you pay promptly.
Fuck the mint!
on Wed, 10/07/2009 - 15:40
#91966
"I like Maple Leafs because that .9999 purity just means more gold, baby"
Not more gold, just purer gold. Eagles have a full oz of gold -- they weigh more than an ounce with the added metal(s).
on Wed, 10/07/2009 - 10:49
#91450
They do scratch easily relative to the Eagle and the Krug, which are 22k to increase their durability. They are still nice coins though, if you don't mind the Queens' ugly mug staring back at you.
on Thu, 10/08/2009 - 05:08
#92589
I'm going to echo peterpeter's comment. No tax at all that I'm aware of.
I've been buying Gold and Silver coins/bullion from Northwest Territorial Mint. If you buy a minimum of 5 ounces of gold, the price to you right now is Spot plus a premium of $52.
For example, the Spot as I write this is $1,055 (via Kitco's 24-hour Gold chart). The price per coin for the minimum of 5 ounces is $1,109 -- a premium of $54.00
If you buy 10 coins, the price per coin is cheaper. $1,102 which reflects a premium of just $47 per Coin.
There are no other costs at all. Shipping is free in the 48 states. Yes, you have to wait 6 to 8 weeks for delivery. But your price is locked in when you place your order. I've ordered coins from them 5 times. Although I'm very impatient, I have always gotten what I paid for.
There are other places to buy bullion from in the U.S. They've been mentioned in this thread.
I love the look of the Maples, btw. 24k gold is deep, warm, glittering Yellow color. By contrast, the 22k American Eagles do not glitter. There's a hint of Copper in the color. It's a beautiful coin. But what a difference between 22k and 24k!
The U.S. Mint does make a 24k gold coin, the American Buffalo. The demand was so overwhelming last January that the mint stopped taking orders for them. They apparently ran out of 1-ounce 24k blanks.
They expect to begin shipping orders of Buffaloes in late October, around the 25th. Just today, Oct 7th, NWT Mint began accepting orders for these coins. As soon as they opened and I called them and ordered 6 of them. I paid $1,115 for each, which is a premium of $65. This is worth it to me because I've been wanting to get a few of these since last March or so and they haven't been available to order until today.
So there you have it. My own, personal, eye-witness account of buying American Eagles, Canadian Maple Leafs, and American Buffalo Gold Coins.
I hope the information helps.
on Wed, 10/07/2009 - 10:08
#91362
And so it begins. Next up exchange controls.
on Wed, 10/07/2009 - 10:35
#91364
If the law requires the mint to produce these coins in sufficient quantity to meet public demand and Gold is so plentiful (I read all the time how Gold is available in large quantities [meaning 400 oz. Gold bars] to anyone who wishes to buy) why can't the mint get enough Gold to meet demand?
This happened last year as well. It's a simple (and reasonable) question that should be answered.
BTW, if I remember correctly, last year when the mint announced they were out of coins, the price of Gold peaked and reversed a few days later. Is this a repeat?
on Wed, 10/07/2009 - 10:38
#91421
The law requires them to make other coins (American Eagle Gold and American Eagle Silver Bullion) in sufficient quantity to meet public demand, so they are allocating their efforts towards those (bullion coins) and away from other coins (The proof and uncirculated versions of the American Eagle Gold and Silver Proof Coins).
Instead of making coins for coin collectors (numismatic products), they are pumping out bullion coins. Neumanistic products are sold for a much higher premium (they are "collector's items"), but the volume of bullion is much greater than neumanistic products.
on Wed, 10/07/2009 - 10:48
#91444
If memory serves me correctly, the same thing happened last year. First they stopped the collector coins, then they just stopped.
Correct me if I'm wrong, which would not be the first time.
on Wed, 10/07/2009 - 11:59
#91581
Yes. I also agree that you are right.
Kitco had so little available for sale in November, for so long, that I started to question how they remained in business.
In the days of the gold standard, when the value of the
weight of gold that made up the coin exceeded the value of the coin itself people naturally began to melt the coin
and sell the gold it contained. This reduced the amount of currency in circulation and greatly encouraged forgery.
Nothing is more destructive to a currency than widespread forgery.
It became illegal to own gold bullion to put an end to the threat.
Physical money that is in circulation by percentage of the the amount that is traded was also much greater back then.
Money today is largely a series of numbers on an electronic spreadsheet. Credit cards and all the rest limit the need for actual money. Still, it is said that there is too much of it.
When you buy an ounce of gold, do you soak up or do you further contribute to that excess?
If there is an excess, is it in the interest of those
attempting to strengthen the currency to have you buy
it, or should they prohibit, limit access to and discourage such activity?
on Wed, 10/07/2009 - 10:52
#91452
Yes, you guys are right. I believe this happened last year as well. It indicates high demand for bullion coins, since they are suspending production of proof and uncirculated numanistic coins.
on Wed, 10/07/2009 - 13:43
#91773
Yes, and last year, just like every time before it, it usually was very close to a short term top. When you add to that the Mr. T indicator, of which I am a big follower, I think we're up for a correction and in the short term this will turn out to be a false breakout: http://www.minyanville.com/articles/gold-mr.+t-indicator-kevin-depew-minyanville/index/a/24787/from/home
on Wed, 10/07/2009 - 10:53
#91455
I believe that the mint buys manufactured blanks produced to specification and the companies that produce the blanks from larger bars have a huge backlog.
It's not that there is a shortage of gold per se, it's a shortage of the form needed by the mint.
IIRC blank makers were working hand over fist last fall to meet demand, at least I remember reading that.
on Wed, 10/07/2009 - 11:15
#91491
I understand the underlying problem. Regardless, the law doesn't say "unless you have supply problems and can't follow the law."
They have had this problem 3 years running. They are required to comply with the law. The mint knew there was a run on gold coins last year and there was every reason to expect it again this year.
It's not like this is a side line business and they don't know the market. They are the US Mint for God's sake. If they can't find blanks, there is a problem, either with the world or them. Or both.
Only the naive still believes the Fed and other central banks don't attempt to control the price of Gold. The mint is simply one of numerous pawns the Fed controls.
on Wed, 10/07/2009 - 11:57
#91576
There is a run on coins because the price of gold (and silver) is not the market price. If the govt allowed these PMs to trade freely rather than keep a lid on the prices via the COMEX paper shorting, there'd be fewer issue in terms of supply and demand because of a proper balance could be reached.
on Wed, 10/07/2009 - 13:21
#91724
Bingo!
If the market price of gold were truly unfettered, we would have no shortages (at least no shortages for very long) because the price would rise to the point where supply would appear to satisfy demand.
At least that's the way it's supposed to work where they teach capitalism 101. However, the central banks (in particular the Fed) know that if they let go of their gold manipulation and the price were to go up to where it would naturally be considering what is going on, panic would ensue and people would loose faith in the almighty dollar.
That's the only thing keeping the dollar afloat, artificially manufactured faith and no (really truly unobstructed) competition from an alternative store of value that doesn't come from a printing press or a computer.
on Wed, 10/07/2009 - 13:24
#91733
US mint cannot go out and buy gold.
By law, there are only a few blank suppliers that can legally supply the us mint.
on Wed, 10/07/2009 - 10:11
#91365
Medium is the Message?
Chip Hanlon Says Gold May Reach $1,500 by Next Year - October 7 (Bloomberg)
Logic's O'Neill Sees Gold Above $1,100 on Currency Hedge - October 7 (Bloomberg)
Schroeder Says Dump the Dollar' for Medium to Long Term - October 7 (Bloomberg)
Santer Says Gold Poised to Rise Further on Tight Supply - October 7 (Bloomberg)
Kiener Recommends Investing in Physical Gold, Miners - October 7 (Bloomberg)
on Wed, 10/07/2009 - 10:16
#91374
Late to the game as usual. Here is what they should have been saying:
"Get The Hell Out of The USD As Bernanke Cranks Up Printing Presses To Buy MBS and UST" - March 18th.
on Wed, 10/07/2009 - 10:13
#91367
Just this announcement will goose bullion.
on Wed, 10/07/2009 - 10:14
#91370
Typical government response:
Too much demand! Quick, stop production!
Idiots. Anyways, its all just coordinated market intervention by elite Wall Street. These guys run the government and make the decisions that can best manipulate the markets the way they want.
on Wed, 10/07/2009 - 10:42
#91433
In a real market they would raise the price until supply/demand equilibrium is found. But this is the .gov, and they will use any tactic to delay people getting physical gold.
on Wed, 10/07/2009 - 10:15
#91371
But it says u can still get the buffalo's which are 24k so they're not short of gold they're actually short of the crap additives
on Wed, 10/07/2009 - 10:15
#91372
Oh come on. This happened last year as well. More about incompetence than any conspiracy. Tip: if you really want these things, get them before a panic, when the only ones left are on ebay and command 50% premiums over spot.
on Wed, 10/07/2009 - 10:17
#91377
"because of unprecedented demand..."
translation: informed citizens are tired of the FED paying us close to 0% risk premium on their hard earned $$...
on Wed, 10/07/2009 - 10:34
#91418
I've always said that the truth is always (eventually) spoken by bureaucrats. It's just not labeled as such.
Obviously the Mint didn't get the memo about extend and pretend and not startling the sheep.
on Wed, 10/07/2009 - 11:34
#91526
Informed citizens? Let me stop you right there, okay? How is it informed to be buying any precious metal at this point? Add to that all the hoopla over "cash4gold" you see every f*cking place you look, and I can pretty much tell you what comes next--Gold bars on the cover of Newsweek, followed by a massive ass-reaming for all those who bought at the top.
on Wed, 10/07/2009 - 12:35
#91648
That's not what cash4gold means. When we are getting near the top, they will want to SELL you the gold, not buy it from you.
on Wed, 10/07/2009 - 15:07
#91915
+1... Couldn't have said it better myself
on Wed, 10/07/2009 - 10:18
#91379
This is bunk. There is plenty of gold around to make coins. They are just stopping this. It begs the question: Why?
on Wed, 10/07/2009 - 10:22
#91392
So the government can have some gold around so they can continue to buy crack?
I am Chumbawamba.
on Wed, 10/07/2009 - 10:33
#91417
So they can close one path, and heard people to buy treasury debt... most gold coin buyers are only looking for safety and capital preservation, something you won't find in the equity market
on Wed, 10/07/2009 - 10:53
#91454
Naw, you still have Krugerrands, British Sovereigns, Australian Philharmonics, Australian whatever-the-fuck-they-call-them, Chinese Pandas, not to mention Credit Suisse and Pamp Suisse bars, mint bars, private sales (eBay (not recommended), craigslist), etc.
Shortage? What shortage? Only to those who waited too long, perhaps.
I am Chumbawamba.
on Wed, 10/07/2009 - 10:58
#91465
sealed pamp gold 1oz sizes and bing cashback on ebay are awesome...no way am i touching unsealed and larger amounts - you cant fake the weight plus dimensions...
on Wed, 10/07/2009 - 11:24
#91509
Do tell. How does it work out for you? A mini-tutorial perhaps? ;)
I am Chumbawamba.
on Wed, 10/07/2009 - 11:24
#91506
Uh, that should be AUSTRIAN Philharmonics. Still don't know what the Australian coins are dubbed and am too lazy to Google, even though the search tool is just inches away by mouse.
I am Chumbawamba.
on Wed, 10/07/2009 - 11:56
#91570
kangaroo?
on Wed, 10/07/2009 - 18:49
#92234
Kangaroos, Nuggets, Lunar series -- it keeps changing, hence the confusion
on Wed, 10/07/2009 - 11:25
#91512
LMAO at Philharmonics. Austrians are terrible at naming things.
on Wed, 10/07/2009 - 11:33
#91524
I suppose the alternative--Austrian Hitler--just wouldn't be palatable to a world customer base.
Perhaps the Austrian Schwarzeneggar? Or better yet, the Austrian Terminator? A nice .9999 round featuring a de-tissued T-1000 skeleton would be fab.
I am Chumbawamba.
on Wed, 10/07/2009 - 11:38
#91533
I'd be a goldbug if I could own a solid gold T-1000 skeleton.
on Wed, 10/07/2009 - 11:59
#91578
I stay away from Chinese Pandas. Too much MSG.
on Wed, 10/07/2009 - 12:11
#91603
I have a 1/20 Toz Chinese Panda coin I got in trade (for weed).
I am Chumbawamba.
on Wed, 10/07/2009 - 13:25
#91735
LOL for the "too much MSG" in the Chinese Pandas comment.
I like my Chinese Pandas black and white and eating bamboo but what do I know?
on Wed, 10/07/2009 - 10:25
#91394
“All available 22-karat gold and silver bullion blanks are being allocated to the American Eagle gold and American Eagle silver bullion coins programs as mandated by Public Law 99-185 and Public Law 99-61, respectively. Both laws direct the agency to produce these coins in quantities sufficient to meet public demand. ”
Its more a matter of which coins they have to make, not whether they can make any coins. Although it appears obvious supply contraints are part of the issue.
on Wed, 10/07/2009 - 10:36
#91424
Right Lookma. It's only the collector product.
on Wed, 10/07/2009 - 10:18
#91380
See, you guys don't understand economics. When demand goes up, you have to stop production. This makes the product more affordable. Simple, really.
on Wed, 10/07/2009 - 12:08
#91597
Funny! I'll stop scrolling down to post exactly the same thing. Mind boggling
on Wed, 10/07/2009 - 10:20
#91383
SHOCKED! SHOCKED I SAY! SHOCKED!
Predictable like clockwork.
on Wed, 10/07/2009 - 10:21
#91387
They have been running at chronic shortages since before last year's crash. This is nothing new.
They won't be able to confiscate gold this time around. First of all, the dynamic is different. We don't have gold certificates, and we certainly don't have any gold or silver coin in circulation. Also, and most importantly, many Americans who "hoard" gold also "hoard" bullets. And the hoard the latter specifically to protect the former. We're not imbeciles! We read our history.
I am Chumbawamba.
on Wed, 10/07/2009 - 10:22
#91391
Fort Knox doesn't hold gold, it holds twinkies... hmmm.. twinkies...
on Wed, 10/07/2009 - 10:27
#91408
twinkies are sort of gold colored so that's fine
on Wed, 10/07/2009 - 10:57
#91463
they did advertise them at one time as golden sponge cake!
on Wed, 10/07/2009 - 10:58
#91464
All the gold is at West Point Military & Gold Bullion Academy.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/West_Point_Mint
on Wed, 10/07/2009 - 10:25
#91398
Bubble in gold? Dumb money getting on board. USD rally, stock/commodity sell-off (crash) coming..not sure when, but coming...
on Wed, 10/07/2009 - 12:16
#91610
Just because every other financial instrument in recent memory has been a bubble doesn't mean gold is. Look at the charts: it's been slowly but steadily rising for the past 8 or so years. That's not a bubble trajectory.
Anyway, talk of a bubble in gold is nonsense. Look at the fundamentals. Anyone who is ignoring the fact that the economy is and has been a hollow shell for the better part of the last 8 years, not to mention the over-stretch of the US in its military douchebaggery that has undermined every facet of confidence that the dollar might have once enjoyed, is an idiot, a fool, a moron, a joke (a sick one at that), a dumb-ass, a dork, a maroon, an imbecile, and a retarded monkey.
I am Chumbawamba.
on Wed, 10/07/2009 - 15:15
#91932
Coincidentally, the price of gold has in the last 8 years tracked our growing debt to GDP ratio pretty well...
on Wed, 10/07/2009 - 10:26
#91402
But if you go to the U.S. mint website, they say that they are taking orders for the new ultra-high relief St. Gaudens 1 oz. coin. I don't know if they actually will be making any, but they will take your order.
on Wed, 10/07/2009 - 11:46
#91553
I own one - it's beautiful.
on Wed, 10/07/2009 - 16:17
#92026
Yes, it costs much more than the other coins - I wonder if it would be a better estimate at what the true price of gold should be. Since a coin stamp is just a coin stamp, it shouldn't cost much more to produce.
on Wed, 10/07/2009 - 10:33
#91413
I am beginning to wonder if in fact we are once again witnessing stealth backwardation. This is what Rob Kirby is suggesting, because of premiums offered to settle in cash rather than physical metal. I think things will become more clear over the next month or two.
Regardless, do not waste your money on paper gold! It's not the same as the real thing.
on Wed, 10/07/2009 - 10:42
#91431
Paper gold is the biggest scam since the original Ponzi worked his magic. Don't buy paper gold unless you're looking for paper profits.
In fact, don't ever expect to take physical delivery of gold by redeeming your paper gold in whatever form you're holding. It ain't gonna happen. They'll always find an excuse to hand you printed paper for your gold, not the gold itself.
Bank on it. (Pun intended)
on Wed, 10/07/2009 - 11:28
#91516
How many people are listening...er, reading?
I keep telling everyone who will listen that things are not only going to get bad but they will be worse than anyone can imagine. I don't know what that means, but I know I'm right about this. The meaning will become evident as time passes.
Gold and silver, guns and bullets, garden and family.
I am Chumbawamba.
on Wed, 10/07/2009 - 13:35
#91757
Check, check, check, check, check and double check.
Sadly the guns and bullets will be used to protect myself from those that didn't get while the getting was good.
I remember back in April of 2007 when I was telling people there would be massive bank failures, a 50% drop in the stock market and that would only be the beginning. They looked at me like I was crazy.
Now that the market is "only" down 30%+ after the recent run up, the "experts" who didn't see "it" coming are now telling everyone the coast is clear. And I'm back to telling people to watch out below and once again being told I'm crazy.
The average person simply can't comprehend something they don't wish to acknowledge. You can't see what you're not looking for and don't wish to see. This is why we are lied to. To allow us to believe what we want to believe.
on Wed, 10/07/2009 - 23:28
#92505
Listen to this- see past it, see every person as a human being, feed people. We're almost home.
on Wed, 10/07/2009 - 10:32
#91414
No no no. It's got nothing to do with supply and demand. It's all about waiting for the newly designed stamping molds. The new design features the eagle falling from the sky with an arrow in it's breast, wings akimbo, waving bye, and talons full of paper rectangles.
on Wed, 10/07/2009 - 12:17
#91611
Oh, snap.
I am Chumbawamba.
on Wed, 10/07/2009 - 10:36
#91423
Pretty sure this is old news, from March 2009. See, for example: http://www.coinnews.net/2009/03/15/2009-american-eagle-gold-coins-suspended/
on Wed, 10/07/2009 - 10:39
#91427
Section 9 is amusing.
on Wed, 10/07/2009 - 10:42
#91432
If gold were a barbarous relic, why do countries hoard it. In any currency conversation gold is mentioned. When a fiat currency is threatened people move to gold, and now our US government can't seem to get enough of this worthless commodity.
on Wed, 10/07/2009 - 10:47
#91443
Reminds me of "Operation Change for the Better"
http://www.blimptv.blogspot.com/2007/12/new-bush-coins.html
on Wed, 10/07/2009 - 12:24
#91622
OMG, that's F-en brilliant.
I am Chumbawamba.
on Wed, 10/07/2009 - 13:41
#91769
Beautiful. Coins denominated in quantities of oil.
LOL
on Wed, 10/07/2009 - 10:48
#91446
Obviously this is another datapoint showing the high level of demand for precious metals but I hate to break it to you, it is far from confirming a conspiracy. This reason has been cited on numerous occasions over the past two years to explain bullion coin rationing, bullion and collector coin suspensions, and bullion and collector coin cancellations.
Under law, the United States Mint is required to produce Gold and Silver Eagle bullion coins in quantities sufficient to meet public demand. US Mint has been using all 22-karat gold and silver blanks to produce bullion coins, in lieu of collector coins, which they are not legally required to produce.
The status of this year's collectible Gold Eagles, Platinum Eagles, Silver Eagles, and Gold Buffaloes has been a topic of constant discussion and speculation.
So in the end, it is just a pain in the neck for collectors but is far from confirmation that the government is about to confiscate all private gold.
on Wed, 10/07/2009 - 10:56
#91458
Gold? What is that? Is it a REIT? Can I buy shares?
on Wed, 10/07/2009 - 10:56
#91461
it's a shortage of the blanks needed by the mint, not a shortage of gold.
on Wed, 10/07/2009 - 11:00
#91466
This sounds to me like the gubbermint is simply continuing its policy of currency debasement and stock market insanity.
This is all going according to plan, if you look back over the last few months. How else to stoke the fire at the NYSE?
Announce Gold demand is too high! Then stop producing something in demand!
Now that's one for the new age economist to grapple with.
"I'm selling oranges, but because demand is too high I've decided not to". What a load of crap. F*&K you, Geithner!
on Wed, 10/07/2009 - 11:00
#91468
Guys, the tone of this article is all wrong. As several lucid people have mentioned before me in this very thread, the US mint is NOT suspending the production of ALL Gold and Silver coins, just "proof and uncirculated" versions. Presumably this is actually meant to BOOST the production of American Eagle bullion coins, which makes perfect sense. But don't let this get in the way of a good gold conspiracy.
on Wed, 10/07/2009 - 11:35
#91531
excellent handle, incalculable captcha
on Wed, 10/07/2009 - 11:44
#91545
Captcha,
exactly, they are making the standard coins and stopping the fancy stuff.
But, they do not incease the standard coins either.
The sales volume is published here:
http://usmint.gov/mint_programs/american_eagles/index.cfm?action=sales&year=2009
on Wed, 10/07/2009 - 11:03
#91472
LMAO at every gold piece on this blog. The hysteria, the panic. The herd rushing after the next in vogue asset.
There is no inflation. There is no dollar demise.
on Wed, 10/07/2009 - 12:05
#91590
yeah...good luck with that.
on Wed, 10/07/2009 - 12:26
#91627
Yeah, for real. You douche.
Or should I say, TIM GEITHNER!!!
Anonymous postings from any .gov (or related) domain should be banned.
I am Chumbawamba.
on Wed, 10/07/2009 - 11:11
#91484
I started buying silver a little over a month ago. It's my fault. Hey Warren, sell some of your silver so the price drops. If it's not silver then i've been turning my paper into motorcycles, food, clothing, and shelter.
I AM NOT CHUMBAWUMBA, but I did ditch the banksters too.
on Wed, 10/07/2009 - 12:27
#91630
DEBTOR'S REVOLT!
The time is ripe to default on all your credit cards.
STARVE THE BEAST.
And if you get a traffic ticket, go to court and plead not guilty. If even a minority of "offenders" did this it would grind the system to a dead halt.
I am Chumbawamba.
on Wed, 10/07/2009 - 11:25
#91513
thanks incalculable captcha.. I'm sitting here with a phone number about to close a deal on a monster box of silver and I can feel the foolish impulsive pressure building within me to rush out and buy it... but now I think I'll wait another day.
on Wed, 10/07/2009 - 11:34
#91528
Toppy headline. Managing perception maybe? Lots of people have lots of gold to sell, I think.
on Wed, 10/07/2009 - 11:38
#91534
on Wed, 10/07/2009 - 11:48
#91557
Yawn, old story has been going on since last year. Yes, demand is high, but you see the US government an only buy from US gold producers and there aren't that many left. There is no shortage, there is no conspiracy, just a cautious US mint that does not want to over order gold blank at record high gold prices. Seems reasonable to me. Has nothing to do with FDR's executive order, put away the tin foil hat folks.
on Wed, 10/07/2009 - 12:05
#91589
I think nuministic coins were not subject to confiscation in the 30. Most small holders didn't give their's back anyways. The tax case in NV cleared up the face value issue.
on Wed, 10/07/2009 - 12:29
#91633
Did that dude win?
I am Chumbawamba.
on Wed, 10/07/2009 - 12:53
#91660
"it has hit the broad population"
Not even close. Ask people on the street or in your office what the price of gold is, if they've considered buying any, if they know where any coin shops are, if they know what an American Gold Eagle coin is. Blank stares. The mania phase is years away, unless we blow up.
Edit: The mania phase of a PM bull is when the MSM talk about the price of gold on the 6 O'Clock news every night, when the water cooler convo is dominated by the office's self-declared investment guru blathering on about his gold juniors, when you personally know the location, hours and spread of each coin shop within 50 miles of your home and often run into people there that you know, and when capitulation has hit the USD.
Then it is time to look for a greater fool. Not one moment earlier.
on Wed, 10/07/2009 - 13:49
#91778
Yeah, and then what? Sell it for what to the next fool? His ugly wife? His shoes?
These discussions are all very funny, but the whole object of buying gold is not selling it for anything, but using it when the need arises (barter). I am long long gold, not enough though, want to get long long LONG gold, all physical, no hedging, no shit. I can't be bothered with today's prices, want/need/demand an enormous move lower to buy more.
on Wed, 10/07/2009 - 13:04
#91695
this is now happening more or less on a very regular basis:
September 2007: http://prudentinvestor.blogspot.com/2007/09/us-mint-suspends-gold-coin-s...
July 2009: http://prudentinvestor.blogspot.com/2009/07/us-mint-again-suspends-gold-...
on Wed, 10/07/2009 - 13:10
#91703
Followed the link provided to confirm the news release on the suspension mentioned -it does not say that anything was suspended.
on Wed, 10/07/2009 - 13:37
#91759
Your reading comprehension is not very good then
on Wed, 10/07/2009 - 13:24
#91732
"The tax case in NV cleared up the face value issue."
A cursory inspection of the latest decision in that case leads me to believe that the "face value" issue was about the only aspect that---surprise, surprise---was NOT addressed in the various convictions.
on Wed, 10/07/2009 - 13:33
#91755
Gold has to go to $12,000/oz to back all the cash in circulation.
Historically, 1 oz of gold would buy you several acres of farmland and animals to go upon it.
Or a somewhat decent house.
Major corrections needed to all markets.
There was a time when a dowry of 1oz of gold was considered so appealing, any man would marry Rosie O'Donnell for it.
on Wed, 10/07/2009 - 14:12
#91814
If you give me Rosie's weight in gold, I'll take Rosie and the gold. Otherwise, you can keep her.
on Wed, 10/07/2009 - 15:46
#91975
Today's NYMEX gold chart is very interesting. Any dips down were quickly bought up and even after a big day yesterday and the dollar up today, it still ended in the green.
on Wed, 10/07/2009 - 15:48
#91982
Could someone kindly send me a link to both 99-185 and 99-61, the pertinent legislation dealing with the production of the gold and silver eagles?
Thomas register is NO help....thanks
on Wed, 10/07/2009 - 16:12
#92020
Sometimes I think zhedge likes to hype up non-news (to pump their trading positions higher????). I could be wrong, but I think this is a formality, as pointed out in above posts. Today is October 7. We have little over 2.5 months before 2010 starts up. At some point every year they discontinue the 2009 coin and start up for next year. Yawn.
on Wed, 10/07/2009 - 16:58
#92079
It's been my experience that those that trash gold are just morons who were to dumb not to buy it at $300.00 and are now really pissed off....as for "confiscation" it's a myth and will never happen
on Wed, 10/07/2009 - 22:04
#92451
Confiscation could certainly be ordered, but how are they going to find it? I'll shove it up my ass and take it out of the country.
on Wed, 10/07/2009 - 17:05
#92095
The US Mint usually halts production in the first week of December not first week of October I assume they having problems with getting blanks as was the case in January and Febuary would not discount they missed calculating the increased demand ...again!
on Wed, 10/07/2009 - 21:46
#92432
CONFISCATION.....AGAIN
What is one's best defense if there is a callin for gold bullion and certificates?
on Wed, 10/07/2009 - 22:01
#92446
Mint is full of bullscheisse. "Nobody can produce blanks," my ass.
http://wcvarones.blogspot.com/2009/10/gold-gone-wild.html
on Wed, 10/07/2009 - 22:09
#92454
I have been diversifing my metals portfolio from silver and gold to brass and lead anyway. FYI, a 50 lb. bag of rice at Sam's Club is currently less than an oz. of silver.
on Wed, 10/07/2009 - 22:41
#92475
Looks like gold has become respectable again and people are flocking into it. While the dollar moves lower, it will be OK. But when the dollar turns, I believe gold may have a hard time moving higher, and will likely fall.
admin
Trading signals: http://invetrics.com
on Thu, 10/08/2009 - 00:00
#92523
Many dreams come true and some have silver linings
I live for my dream and a pocketful of gold.
Led Z
Give me Silver Blue and Gold
the color of the sky I'm told
Bad Co
on Thu, 10/08/2009 - 01:19
#92559
I would think a sound Mint would invest its profits in growing its business, buying more capital equipment for increased minting and investing in more inventory (blanks). The biggest obvious problem of their discontinuations is the discontinuation of the 1/10 and 1/4 and 1/2 oz eagles, which put investing in gold in 'normal' range of $110-$550 amounts. 1/10 oz coins are super hot right now because the Mint has stopped making them (due to high demand). I appreciate those who buy gold to hold forever. I didn't have that luxury, as I borrowed tens of thousands of dollars on credit last fall to buy gold and silver, and have been steadily selling it off during this entire rally. By the end of the year (could be now if I chose), I can pay off the rest of the debt (all now parked at 0% interest with Bank of America until January) and keep about 10 oz gold and 300 oz of silver. Thanks, Bank of America! I look forward to paying off that line of credit the day before it starts generating interest for them. Thanks to spreadsheets, knowledge of the reality of gold and silver, and an appetite for calculated risk, I've done well, and any naysayers about gold and silver investing are empty to my ears, as they simply missed the opportunity to buy real money on sale for the past year, and are in some weird Keynesian/Neo-Patriotic denial of the sad reality of the clear unwise unconstitutionality of paper money and fractional reserve banking. My Constitution still reads "No State shall... coin Money; emit Bills of Credit; make any Thing but gold and silver Coin a Tender in Payment of Debts..." Paper money that says "This note is legal tender" is an obvious and clear fraud, as the Constitution is top law and it has never been changed. Even fractional reserve bank notes on top of gold bullion in limited ratios is unconstitutional, as no debt can be legally settled in any State of the Union except in Gold and Silver Coin. The paper dollar is doomed and it deserves to collapse into hyperinflationary history because it is not "American" or legal or wise or sustainable. Gold and Silver will certainly have dips, but they will most likely only be the result of manipulation by the Plunge Protection Team, and will be fleeting dips in an accelerating rally as the Paper USD goes to hell with Nixon and the other Inflationary Warlords that destroyed a good country based on peaceful & sound philosophy for the greed of their Imperial Banker Overlords.
on Thu, 10/08/2009 - 01:38
#92561
US will mint MORE coins for Mrs. Jones not less!
The headline is mis-leading and creates false pre-supposition when reading legaleze as seen from comments which almost one-voicedly declare the beginning of the new world order.
on Thu, 10/08/2009 - 08:15
#92680
There is no problem with getting raw gold. It is blank manufacturing that is the problem, and it is a significant bottleneck for the minting industry as a whole.
Blank manufacturing involves melting, casting, rolling, cutting out of the blanks (blanking), annealing and various surface treatment processes. It is a far more involved and “messy” process than minting. There may be enough presses in the world to stamp out gold coins there is simply not enough gold blank manufacturing capacity in the world to meet the current demand levels. So why not convert existing base metal blank manufacturing to gold?
Mass base metal blank manufacturing deals in metals that are significantly less value that the face value of the coin. As a result, the process is optimised for speed, not quality or security: if a blank is no good, throw it away; weight control tolerances are lax (do you care if your copper coin has slightly more or less copper in it?); metal evaporating when it is melted is not recovered and so on. You cannot allow any of these things with gold, due to its high cost. To convert base metal blank manufacturing you would have to install weight control machines, scrubbers to collect evaporated gold, lock down the building and install greater physical security, etc. These are major changes and without them the cost of production of a gold coin would be very high.
Mints will only invest capital in precious metal production facilities if they believe that the current demand for gold coins will continue for a number of years, otherwise they will not recover their investment. The hesitancy of mints to gear up is because the cost of a modern full precious metal coin production line is high.
What sort of investment is required? One Grabener coin press (the most commonly used one) is circa $1 million. That is just for the press, for blank manufacture you need melting furnaces, breakdown mills, pickling plants, weighing machines, scrubbers, vacuum furnances etc etc. If you look at the last Perth Mint annual report (which is almost exclusively a precious metals mint), you will see that on page 24 the cost of plant and equipment (pre depreciation) is AUD 22 million. That equipment supported only 8.1 million blanks and an 8% share of the world gold bullion coin market. And we haven’t even begun to consider working capital requirements cover cash costs and work-in-progress inventory.
One can see that to meet mass market demand for real (gold) money many times the Perth Mint’s capacity would be required across the minting industry (public and/or private). Thus a substantial amount of dollar investment is required.
I think, as a general statement, that we cannot expect Government mints to make the sort of decisive and entrepreneurial decision required to invest to meet future demand; to take the gamble that retail coin demand will continue. This sort of high risk/high return is not in their bureaucratic nature. For those of a conspiracy bent, this is an academic question anyway as the mints have been told by their masters to make as few gold coins as (plausibly) possible.
This then leaves us relying on private mints to meet the demand. But in these markets where will they get the funding from?
The conclusion is that we can expect coin shortages (and high premiums) when retail demand for gold is high. In some sense this is necessary, as it is an economic signal to minters to encourage them to invest to make these extraordinary profits. But will this signal work in the current environment?
The key is belief by minters (government or private) in sustainable demand (see this blog for a discussion on the types of issues involved). While you may consider the unprecedented demand that has occurred as a clear signal, the minters obviously do not as they rationed supply instead of increasing it last time we had increased interest in physical gold.
This step by the US mint, while it is only referring to uncirculated and proof coins, not true investment bullion, indicates that the industry will ration again if retail physical demand for coins increases and remains high.
on Thu, 10/08/2009 - 11:24
#92925
Oh Puh-Lease!
The USD is finished as the worlds reserve currency. People are buying as much metal as they can possibly get their hands on in exchange for those worthless Federal Reserve Notes before they become...worth nothing!
You can't triple the number of USDs in circulation and expect the prices of everything you buy from overseas (because your corp leaders sold out to overseas companies) product(s) w/out expecting to pay triple the price!
Inflation is going thru the roof and you boobus keep listening to Hate Radio spouting off 24 x 7 per day about how the 'enemy is deflation'.
WE ARE NOT IN A DEFLATIONARY PERIOD!
Prices of 'stuff' in the big box stores is down because they have warehouses full of cargo containers they pre-ordered that they can't give away. hence the 'sales' prices you're paying. When the inventory is depleted and THEN you want to buy some 'stuff' you'll pay thru the nose for it in USDs IF you can get someone to even take them.
Buy gold, silver, food and guns because as many much more responsible and intelligent people then I (yes you may now throw dirt at me) have articulated "...this is going to end in violence...".
I predict that 'violence' will ensue right around April 15th when the IRS starts to demand of the unemployed that have drained their 401K funds to feed their familes their 'taxes' PLUS the income tax they demand on 'unemployment insurance payments'.
Look for legislation to be proposed to eliminate taxes on unemployment insurance payments and on early withdrawals of 401k monies.
And if you can get your 401K money out get it! Then buy gold, silver, food and guns (and anything else you can barter like cigs, booze, gasoline, toilet paper).
on Fri, 10/16/2009 - 20:52
#101582
People remember no governmemt has any power unless it's elector choose to let it have any say! A governmemt that sways from its populous desire should be fired immediately without any type of compensation. You the elector have the power to be represented as you wish or let them know, You either represent us and to our benefit or else your out period. A president is nothing more than a sales man representing his electors if not get rid of the trash.
Secondly never put a president on a pedestal respect is earned so is the opportunity to preside over its people when it is shown other wise get rid of the disease.
Governmemts should never have any say into what the populous owns or how much of it neither should they have any rights to decide or influence its value. Think before you vote for a cancer!
on Wed, 10/28/2009 - 03:10
#112701
Yes,It appears gold mania is spreading, and if this press release by the US Mint is any indication, it has hit the broad population. Thanks for the great reading, we buy
gold bullion in a recession.
I will pass this on to our ira clients to read.
on Tue, 11/03/2009 - 03:54
#118108
it is very good to save your wealth physically in this recession so gold bullion is very good opion
Thanks for the great reading, we buy gold bullion in a recession. I will pass this on to our ira clients to read
on Wed, 01/13/2010 - 21:20
#193242
We bought a few of these american platinum eagles that we enjoyed your post.
Regards:
http://www.goldcoinsgain.com/american-platinum-eagle.html
on Thu, 01/14/2010 - 21:45
#194521
See our silver bullion coin of the United States and has several highly collectible mintings
http://www.goldcoinsgain.com/american-silver-eagle.html
on Sun, 01/17/2010 - 12:36
#196628
These platinum bullion coins resemble their gold counterparts
http://www.goldcoinsgain.com/canadian-platinum-maple-leaf.html
on Tue, 01/19/2010 - 21:31
#198947
We bought a few of these american platinum eagles that we enjoyed your post.
http://www.goldcoinsgain.com/american-platinum-eagle.html
on Thu, 01/21/2010 - 20:08
#201603
Austrian Gold Philharmonics were designed to honor one of the world’s great orchestras: the Vienna Philharmonic
http://www.goldcoinsgain.com/austrian-gold-philharmonics.html
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