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US, UK Pull Search Teams Out Of Japan As TEPCO Admits Situation Is "Severe"
Earlier today we received an email from one of our readers aboard the aircraft carrier group off Japan performing evacuation efforts for US citizens in Japan, that it had turned around and is now going back. While we are trying to validate this, we have just noticed breaking news from Sky News that US and UK search teams are pulling out of Japan tomorrow. We were wondering what may have brought about this (so far unconfirmed) evacuation of the evacuators until we saw the next breaking news from Sky News: "Japan Admits Nuclear Problem Is 'Severe'" - "This is a severe incident that is occurring right now," the spokesman said at a news conference. "We have vented and used seawater as cooling, followed the accident management plan but this is a very severe operation." The admission comes as plant operator Tokyo Electric Power Co (Tepco) continues attempts to stop the six-reactor Fukushima 1 complex from going into nuclear meltdown. "We have to keep cooling the fuel so it doesn't reach criticality," the Tepco spokesman said, adding that radiation levels have barely fallen at the site." Translation: if operation "Irrigation" fails, TEPCO itself confirms the chance of a critical reaction in the nuclear fuel is very high. Which of course would explain why everyone who knows more than the average peasant who just watches manipulated media, is getting the hell out of dodge.
More from Sky News:
The UK's chief scientific officer John Beddington explained that spent nuclear rods were stored in 'ponds', which kept them cool.
"The situation has changed," he said."The pond in rector four is the cause of very considerable concern. What has happened is that this has been damaged by explosions and is leaking very fast.
"We've had reports that it has gone dry."
Low concentrations of radioactive particles from the power plant have been heading eastwards and are expected to reach North America in days, a Swedish official said.
Lars-Erik De Geer, research director at the government-run Swedish Defence Research Agency, cited data gathered from a network of international monitoring stations used to detect nuclear weapons tests.
Meanwhile, international energy authorities and other nations voiced concerns over the situation at the Fukushima plant north-east of Tokyo.
Japanese Chinook helicopters - reportedly fitted with lead radiation shields - attempted to dump tons of seawater into cooling pools to prevent spent fuel overheating while operator working in short shifts pumped water into the reactor cores.
The International Atomic Energy Association (IAEA) said that four water drops were also made after midnight in an attempt to prevent the reactor overheating.
A police riot control water cannon attempted to replenish the cooling pools but was withdrawn, while two military airport fire trucks continued afterwards.
Sebastian Pflugbeil, president of the private German-based Society for Radiation Protection, said Japan's efforts to pull the Fukushima 1 plant back from the brink signalled "the beginning of the catastrophic phase".
"Maybe we have to pray," he said.
The head of the US Nuclear Regulatory Commission, Gregory Jaczko, said he believes the situation is more serious than the Japanese government is letting on.
Mr Jaczko warned water in reactor 4's cooling pool may have run dry and a second reactor could be leaking - something experts say could accelerate the release of radiation.
"We believe that around the reactor site there are high levels of radiation," he said.
For those who missed our in depth overview of the (now supposedly water-free) spent fuel rod cooling pools can do so at the following link.
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Search Teams out? That means death wins this one.
The concrete trucks are on their way to cover up Fukushima so they can paint the obligatory mural of a white dove on it.
With 2012 just around the corner, I'm afraid TPTB will let it go critical first, in order to maximize the horror.
As Rahm himself has stated, never let a good crisis go to waste.
They should have started aerial sand + borated concrete drops days ago. The good news is Bechtel already has the final solution designed:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jvEDVuGOJ6Y
WRONG. Sand was for fire extinguishment. There is no fire here yet.
Sand would not effectively cool SFRs.
can't lt this dead cat boo sheeit bounce of a rally be wasted...too many wealthy may lose some money..
I am extremely bullish on lies, deception, manipulation, obfuscation, etc. It is booming "space". That's my "thesis" anyhow, what "story" or "names" you choose to advantage yourself is entirely up to you.
Not to worry, teleprompter script is getting downloaded. 3:30 rose garden press reading.
Luke (3rd chapter of New Testament) 21:11 or 3/21/11
There will be great earthquakes, famines and pestilences in various places, and fearful events and great signs from heaven.
Yet she multiplied her whoredoms, in calling to remembrance the days of her youth, wherein she had played the harlot in the land of Egypt. For she doted upon their paramours, whose flesh is as the flesh of asses, and whose issue is like the issue of horses. And lusted after her paramours there, whose members were like those of donkeys, and whose emission was like that of stallions. -Ezekiel 23:19-21.
See, I can play this game too.
And Saint Attila raised the hand grenade up on high, saying, "O Lord, bless this thy hand grenade, that with it thou mayst blow thine enemies to tiny bits, in thy mercy." And the Lord did grin. And the people did feast upon the lambs and sloths, and carp and anchovies, and orangutans and breakfast cereals, and fruit-bats and large chu...
Brother Maynard: Skip a bit, Brother...
Cleric: And the Lord spake, saying, "First shalt thou take out the Holy Pin. Then shalt thou count to three, no more, no less. Three shall be the number thou shalt count, and the number of the counting shall be three. Four shalt thou not count, neither count thou two, excepting that thou then proceed to three. Five is right out. Once the number three, being the third number, be reached, then lobbest thou thy Holy Hand Grenade of Antioch towards thy foe, who, being naughty in my sight, shall snuff it.
Brother Maynard: Amen.
Yet she multiplied her whoredoms, in calling to remembrance the days of her youth, wherein she had played the harlot in the land of Egypt. For she doted upon their paramours, whose flesh is as the flesh of asses, and whose issue is like the issue of horses. And lusted after her paramours there, whose members were like those of donkeys, and whose emission was like that of stallions. -Ezekiel 23:19-21.
See, I can play this game too.
Yet she multiplied her whoredoms, in calling to remembrance the days of her youth, wherein she had played the harlot in the land of Egypt. For she doted upon their paramours, whose flesh is as the flesh of asses, and whose issue is like the issue of horses. And lusted after her paramours there, whose members were like those of donkeys, and whose emission was like that of stallions. -Ezekiel 23:19-21.
See, I can play this game too.
Yet she multiplied her whoredoms, in calling to remembrance the days of her youth, wherein she had played the harlot in the land of Egypt. For she doted upon their paramours, whose flesh is as the flesh of asses, and whose issue is like the issue of horses. And lusted after her paramours there, whose members were like those of donkeys, and whose emission was like that of stallions. -Ezekiel 23:19-21.
See, I can play this game too.
What the F are you doing, having an old-tyme tent revival?
That is one seriously nasty glitch in the Matrix there ese.
Nah, UR. She was just multiplying her whoredoms 4x.
Is the pond leaking or is it evaporating ?
It's a good question, I don't think they really know. It certainly is boiling off to some degree, but chances are there are some leaks as well, especially in the Reactor #3 building where they had a very large hydrogen explosion.
Hopefully there are no leaks, because then there is at least a chance they can fill the tank with water and get the situation under control.
It must have leaked first to get things moving, don't you imagine?
I would think it sloshed out when the quake hit? You know, like a trying to carry a big bowl full of water.
I am sorry to say ZH, you have the breaking news all wrong. The only breaking news now is General Mills is buying Yoplait. Saw it at cnbs.com...there is obviously nothing else newsworthy, really....or they'd have it covered.
Glogurt?
lol
The market rallies today as if everything has changed.. oh, well FedEx had better numbers than expected...hopium 235, powering your economy for today!
As of 10:15AM (EST), March 17, 2011
o At 9:20AM (JST) on March 17, radiation level at elevation of 1,000ft above Fukushima Daiichi Nuclear Power Station: 4,130 micro sievert.
o At 9:20AM on March 17, radiation level at elevation of 300ft above Fukushima Daiichi Nuclear Power Station: 87,700 micro sievert.
o At 11:10AM on March 17, radiation level at main gate (approximately 3,281 feet from Unit 2 reactor building) of Fukushima Daiichi Nuclear Power Station: 646.2 micro sievert.
o At 7:50PM on March 17, radiation level outside main office building (approximately 1,640 feet from Unit 2 reactor building) of Fukushima Daiichi Nuclear Power Station: 3,599 micro sievert.
o For comparison, a human receives 2,400 micro sievert per year from natural radiation in the form of sunlight, radon, and other sources. One chest CT scan generates 6,900 micro sievert per scan.
o Since 10:30AM on March 14, the pressure within the primary containment vessel cannot be measured.
o At 12:50PM on March 17, pressure inside the reactor core: 0.185MPa.
o At 12:50PM on March 17, water level inside the reactor core: 1.7 meters below the top of the fuel rods.
o At 12:25PM on March 16, pressure inside the primary containment vessel: 0.40MPaabs.
o At 12:50PM on March 17, pressure inside the reactor core: -0.027MPa.
o At 12:50PM on March 17, water level inside the reactor core: 1.8 meters below the top of the fuel rods.
o At 12:40PM on March 16, pressure inside the primary containment vessel: 0.23MPaabs.
o At 6:15AM on March 17, pressure inside the suppression chamber was observed to fluctuate.
o At 7:00AM on March 17, pressure inside the suppression chamber: 0.22MPa.
o At 7:05AM on March 17, pressure inside the suppression chamber: 0.44MPa.
o At 7:10AM on March 17, pressure inside the suppression chamber: 0.26MPa.
o At 7:15AM on March 17, pressure inside the suppression chamber: 0.52MPa.
o At 7:20AM on March 17, pressure inside the suppression chamber: 0.13MPa.
o At 7:25AM on March 17, pressure inside the suppression chamber: 0.57MPa.
o At 9:48AM on March 17, a Self Defense Forces helicopter made four water drops aimed for the spent fuel pool.
o At 4:35PM on March 17, pressure inside the reactor core: 0.005MPa.
o At 4:35PM on March 17, water level inside the reactor core: 1.95 meters below the top of the fuel rods.
o At 7:05PM on March 17, a police water cannon began to shoot water aimed at the spent fuel pool until 7:22PM.
o At 7:35PM on March 17, five Self Defense Forces emergency fire vehicles shot water aimed at the spent fuel pool, until 8:09PM.
o At 2:00PM on March 16, the temperature of the spent fuel pool was measured at 145 degrees Fahrenheit.
o At 2:00PM on March 16, the temperature of the spent fuel pool was measured at 140 degrees Fahrenheit.
Update: FEPC has released more information, including a status on cooling pool at Unit 4.
Unit 3 looks unstable. Core breached, primary and secondary containment interacting rapidly. Looking for a way out.
Unit 2 is just broken.
agree...pressure readings are the tell. Unit 3 has breached, as did Unit 2 which is now at negative pressure.
Meltdowns have already happened...the issue now is how far through the casing will the shit get before it cools and hardens.
I must reiterate that the reactors' melting down only poses an acute radiation hazard to the complex. The issue for broader contamination is a SFR fire. The meltdowns pose a problem because they make the radiation environment too hot for cooling measures to be applied to the SFPs. Whether or not they get power reconnected won't change this unless the SFP cooling loop remains undamaged, which seems unlikely, but is certainly possible.
Radiation levels are high at the complex but appear to be stable. Even at 1km, tho, we're talking single digit mSv/hr exposure rates.
Fukushima is such a fuckup because the fuel rods were colocated with the reactors. Any accident affecting the reactor thus affects uncontained fission products. Nuclear poisons typically build up in fuel rods, which is why they are removed for reprocessing, but in most cases something like 97% of original fissile material remains in the rods. Nuclear poisons like Xe-135 have very broad neutron cross sections.
To put this bluntly...I dunno how many rods there are per reactor core, but it is materially LESS than are contained in each reactor's SFP, to my knowledge. Each of these SFRs may contain 97% of the same material as the rods inside the reactor and ALL 100% of the SFRs have NO CONTAINMENT VESSEL.
Nobody apparently was really thinking much about this, but that DOE publication on this scenario that I linked a couple of days ago was an eye-opener. The reactors themselves are as MIT guy and the rest stated- even given a meltdown, the chance of broader radiation leakage is minimal. No meltdown in history has caused severe radionuclide propagation. However, in the SFPs, we have the equivalent of, what, dozens of cores sitting there with no containment whatsoever.
Once the water levels in those ponds go down, the rods pose an immense radiation obstacle to anyone trying to get close enough to them to remediate the problem. And THEY are the risk here.
http://www.nirs.org/reactorwatch/accidents/6-1_powerpoint.pdf
Theoretical maximum loadout of U235 for Tsjernobyl 4 was 3803.69 kg of U235. I arrievd at this in the the following way:
Though not always a fan of wikipedia but the article on Tsjernobyl's RBMK seems to be reasonably well sourced. According to this article at the time of the disaster reactor 4 had 1661 fuel channels.
Each fuel channel was filled by a fuel element. Each element contained 114.7 kg of uranium at an enrichment level of 2%. So a new fuel element contained 2,29 kg of U235. Maximum loadout of Tsjernobyl 4 was 3803,69 kg of U235.
Bu there's a snag: RBMK channels could be fuelled and de-fuelled without shutting down the reactor an thi was happening all the time. RBMK's were developed from plutonium factory piles rather than from submarine drives. I haven't found good data on the average age of the elements in Tsjernobyl 4 yet.
comment in Oil Drum
And WHAT IS THE FUCKING CORE TEMPERATURE in all of these unit???
They have pressure and water level...they must have the temperatures...the other day the news report was that TEPCO "declined to state the temperatures in the reactors."
Holy hell.
Declined to state is a term which here means we are so screwed
might be that the pyrometer melted....
it really doesn't matter. Reactor rods have containment. It's ugly, but it won't contaminate the countryside in the event of meltdown.
Even Chernobyl's meltdown just flowed into piping and cooled into radioactive glass. That wasn't the cause of the broader exposure; the fire was.
Since early yesterday I have been saying that TEPCO needs to forget about the reactors because they have the equivalent of dozens of cores worth of reactors sitting in uncontained SFPs in the same buildings.
They need to get WTFever high pressure water cannons that can fire a km and set them up to spray onto the SFPs. The reactors are going to meltdown and in the case of 2 & 3 appear to have already done so and breached the reactor casing, given the pressure readings. This sucks but it poses no more risk than TMI did, which while hysteria-provoking (we continually read about MELTDOWN as if that is the worst that can happen), simply isn't going to be that big of a deal downwind.
I dunno how they can get the SFRs out and into a different cooling solution; the problem with these seems nearly intractable at present.
TEPCO"declined to state the temperatures in the reactors."
This is what I don't get. How in the hell are these guys at TEPCO (which is a private company btw) allow to NOT report ANY pertinent information?? They have failed to report virtually ANYTHING of use. They have not allowed release of very basic data such as radiation readings in Tokyo (or any other areas), temperatures, etc..NOTHING!!!
These guys should be SHOT, executed by the Japanese government immediately and replaced by people who are more concerned with public welfare than personal reputation, saving face, whatever... FUCKERS!!! Worse than gov't slimeballs even. (almost as bad as bankster, maybe even a tie with those fucks too..)
sorry,, I'm just so pissed off at the way this thing is being 'managed'.
No need to apologize...many of us here feel the same.
~Misstrial
This is how it works now. Environment, economy, safety, food, prosecution, whatever. There is no government, just standins for the corporations.
Fukushima Daiichi Unit 1 reactor
"At 12:50PM on March 17, water level inside the reactor core: 1.7 meters below the top of the fuel rods."
Fukushima Daiichi Unit 2 reactor
At 12:50PM on March 17, water level inside the reactor core: 1.8 meters below the top of the fuel rods.
Fukushima Daiichi Unit 3 reactor
At 4:35PM on March 17, water level inside the reactor core: 1.95 meters below the top of the fuel rods.
Can't imagine why anyone thinks there is a problem. /sarc
So now I'm wondering, is that 1.95 meters below the top of a 2 meter rod?
Seriously.
That's the way I read it.
Maybe something was lost in translation.
I hope so.
If you had a choice would you say there is 5 cm of water left in the pool . Or the water level is 2 meters lower ?
X cm below the belly button...I mean to the top of the rod...errrr...fuel thing...
These are all asian men after all.
For a moment there I read police water cannon shooting at Bahraini pro-democracy protestors.
Wait, where are all the government interWEbz spooks to tell us that all is well, and that there is no significant problem here?
Wheredtheygonow?
All Is Well!
That will come at 2:00 PM Central to stave off a selloff into the close today to frontrun tomorrows selloff because who in their right mind would hold over the weekend for Mondays frontrunning ???????????????????
Even I had a hard time following that !
"Maybe we have to pray," he said.
yes prayer to the father would be a good idea.
Very few in America can do that. Mammon, the god they have served with their genocidal (domestically n overseas) imperialism, is coming for you.
YOU REAP WHAT YOU SOW
Since it's already an act of God, why not.
Damn, I hate those Force Manure Clauses, they always come around and bite you in the ass.
Noodling out some calcs, I get 10 days to get the common spent fuel pool water temp to 100 degrees C.
Assuming 1 MW of available heat remaining in the 6300 fuel rods.
OK, carry on then....
Swimming pools sometimes develop cracks and leaks after a big earthquake -- just saying.
http://japan.usembassy.gov/e/acs/tacs-travel20110317.html
You guys are great here! Whenever I'm bummed I stop by for a few laughs. A bunch of humorous cynics (yes...that's a compliment), or should I say...humorous realists.
Yeah...I hope Coulter falls into a reactor. Maybe she'll come out looking scarier than she already does.
All the doom and gloom news is bullshit. No risks here in the US. More propaganda by the US team of corrupt motherfuckers who thrive on fear and intimidation. Remember, when throwing rocks during the revolution...aim for the head. A sure kill.
Fuck'em all. Look for an up up up retail sales for March...compliments of the US bullshit department of farce!!
As you can see, there ARE some Faux News zombies around. I'll readily agree with Sean Penn being weird but Ann Coulter is a monstruous person. Ugly as hell too.
http://waronterrornews.typepad.com/home/2011/03/japan-us-military-begins...
The most interesting observation is that the helicopters can not safely get close enogh to dump the water such that it lands on the "target". Which means operation bucket dump is completely useless. Even if they could get the payload right on target it would still be a a "hail mary pass" at best.
You guys are great here! Whenever I'm bummed I stop by for a few laughs. A bunch of humorous cynics (yes...that's a compliment), or should I say...humorous realists.
Yeah...I hope Coulter falls into a reactor. Maybe she'll come out looking scarier than she already does.
All the doom and gloom news is bullshit. No risks here in the US. More propaganda by the US team of corrupt motherfuckers who thrive on fear and intimidation. Remember, when throwing rocks during the revolution...aim for the head. A sure kill.
Fuck'em all. Look for an up up up retail sales for March...compliments of the US bullshit department of farce!!
You guys are great here! Whenever I'm bummed I stop by for a few laughs. A bunch of humorous cynics (yes...that's a compliment), or should I say...humorous realists.
Yeah...I hope Coulter falls into a reactor. Maybe she'll come out looking scarier than she already does.
All the doom and gloom news is bullshit. No risks here in the US. More propaganda by the US team of corrupt motherfuckers who thrive on fear and intimidation. Remember, when throwing rocks during the revolution...aim for the head. A sure kill.
Fuck'em all. Look for an up up up retail sales for March...compliments of the US bullshit department of farce!!
Drudge has link showing passengers from Tokyo to DFW, O'Hare airports are testing positive for radiation.
You guys are great here! Whenever I'm bummed I stop by for a few laughs. A bunch of humorous cynics (yes...that's a compliment), or should I say...humorous realists.
Yeah...I hope Coulter falls into a reactor. Maybe she'll come out looking scarier than she already does.
All the doom and gloom news is bullshit. No risks here in the US. More propaganda by the US team of corrupt motherfuckers who thrive on fear and intimidation. Remember, when throwing rocks during the revolution...aim for the head. A sure kill.
Fuck'em all. Look for an up up up retail sales for March...compliments of the US bullshit department of farce!!
I junked every one of your damn posts. you're posting shit and you're multiplying it four times because you apparently can't control your fat fucking finger.
Grim news. Thank you Tyler for your tireless efforts for information flow. So far this is the best source I know.
For those poor people in Japan, let us hope for some sort of better weather and a solution to the large radiation leakage. For those on the US west coast, a stored supply of drinking water is not a bad idea. Not to say the radiation will be a problem, but a major quake (big is predicted at some point) would hamper water supply. A couple of 50 gallon drums away from the house (in case it goes flat) is not a bad idea. If you are overweight, food is not a problem but a couple of bags of food for the pets would be kind.
5 minutes ahead of US intelligence. Maybe more. And focused.
Living on the San Andreas, our checklist includes:
1) EQ P-wave detector ($39) on wall stud, set so high it picks up busses 2 blocks away, and would give 30-60 second warning of Baja eq horizontal shake.
2) Bug-out bags with food, water, clothes, blankets and personal items ready to go in van.
3) Van parked outside the garage during quake windows around new and full moons (next Sat.), perigees and X-flares.
Probably better to move than live in a state of constant fear, don't you think?
"Quite an experience to live in fear isn't it... That's what it is to be a slave." -Roy Batty
Don't forget a GPS with alternate routes since severe earthquake will level freeway overpasses perforce.
~Misstrial
Lucky the guys working inside the plant aren't panicking like rabid dogs aka the media, and actually getting on with the job of trying to cool this stuff down. People should be sending them positive vibrations instead of doommongering. There'll be plenty of time for that if the scientists fail.
"Positive vibrations"
Is that what they're calling clusterfock nuclear catastophes these days? I knew from high school physics that atoms get really excitable.
You know, positive vibrations: https://www.shakeweight.com/flare/next
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c9UFc4FrOxE
"People should be sending them positive vibrations instead of doommongering"
Is that it. Is that all you've got?
"There'll be plenty of time for that if the scientists fail."
If the "scientists" fail?
Haven't you worked it out yet.
The scientists have failed.
That's what were looking at.
Scientists have nothing to offer here.
This is disaster management.
And they are making a balls of it.
at least she's a Bowie fan . . . give her that much.
Ok but that's it.
If I hear any more of this Pollyanna shit I'll burst a vessel.
your doomer end of the world shit is much better
+++
peak oil, peak debt or peak richter rod? You know better than anyone that everyone has their own doomer world
+1
From everything I've read I don't think any workers are left "in" the plant because of lethal radiation.
http://www.nytimes.com/cwire/2011/03/17/17climatewire-fukushima-crisis-worsens-as-us-warns-of-a-lar-9187.html
http://www.stratfor.com/memberships/188283/sitrep/20110316-us-lethal-radiation-around-japans-fukushima-plant-us-nuclear-regulator
I could use some positive vibrations... put your hand... here... and vibrate me and I'll give you 20 bucks.
You should get back to your drum circle now... yes, I'll call you later.
Child, your naivety is extremely inappropriate. Perhaps you should not be reading the entries on this site.
Interesting that no where in Japan do they seem to have a skiddable generator. Kind of a useful thing to have even if you didn't exist on the most geologically unstable land mass on the planet.
First post, so sorry if I don't do this correctly, but this video
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nG2h4AVpo70&feature=player
Implies that the US is evacuating ALL personnel starting with women and children.
Maybe important.
Um, the NRC is now saying this could take "weeks".
US nuclear regulator says Japan will have to focus on cooling its reactors, that will probably take weeksSack had plans to run the S&P to 2000 by June, so someone needs to keep him updated.
Quit fucking around load up the heli's and start dumping Boron already.
any insight on this article posted in a french newspaper reporting a huge number of people planned to be leaving Tokyo tomorrow for Osaka ?
http://www.lyonne.fr/editions_locales/region/dominique_corby_chef_au_jap...
Edit : have just received this article as well on the subject: http://www.hindu.com/2011/03/17/stories/2011031765941400.htm
Omaha might be a better choice...
ok...so I need some Econ 101 help...EWV is the double inverse ETF for Japan. In theory shitty things happen in Japan, their stock market goes down, EWV explodes to the upside....right?
Just wondering because 4 reactors are melting down before our eyes that will leave the country in shambles and the fucking ETF is DOWN 11% today.....maybe I`m a LOT dumber than I`ve been told......
all i can give you is school of hard knocks econ. they close the stock market for a couple days, and you are blissfully sitting on your triple short leveraged etf, but when the market does finally open, the BOJ has rigged the futures to go higher, and you get destroyed (too).
Rather difficult to short EWJ today, plus EWJ is up 4-5%. Go figure.
Are you sure Zerohedge can't replace one of these bogus so-called news stations?
The news I get from Zerohedge is like a week ahead and more accurate than anything that is being release in the MSM.
Zerohedge on TV. bring it.
Are you sure Zerohedge can't replace one of these bogus so-called news stations?
The news I get from Zerohedge is like a week ahead and more accurate than anything that is being release in the MSM.
Zerohedge on TV. bring it.
Tyler Durden as lead anchor.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eplbDbp6XJQ
Too costly, too much work, ruins anonymity
TEPCO itself confirms the chance of a critical reaction in the nuclear fuel is very high.
Could someone break it to me gently what 'going critical' will mean, say here in CA, or is talking about that just going too far off the resevation?
A criticality event would mean a large amount of radiation would be released locally in Japan. It would not mean a nuclear explosion.
For California, it is not likely to be an issue unless things get really bad and there are large uncontrolled fires burning for days like what occurred at Chernobyl.
Nevertheless, despite probably getting called paranoid, I don't think it's unreasonable to buy a bottle of potassium iodide if you can find it.
Actually, "critical" in nuclear jargon means that a reactor is now self sustaining. If the fuel has gone critical, it most likely means in this case, that the fuel has now melted enough that it has settled beneath the control rods, and is now capable of carrying out a self sustained nuclear reaction.
How bad would this be? Very. Because at this point, the fuel is basically a superhot liquid nuclear reactor, that is now portable (in the sense that it will steadily start burning through the concrete, then the bedrock, until finally it hits the water table causing a steam explosion).
At Chernobyl, the reactor fuel went "prompt critical" which is at a whole higher level of fubar.
Thanks Actual. This is what I was thinking "critical" meant in this situation as well. I couldn't find anyone else stating this, either in the news or just a comment. But, it seems like it could lead to an unstoppable and indefinite reaction that literally melts down into the earth as you suggest. Are there any experts that might explain how this is not possible? Thanks.
it's not going to melt through the fucking earth.
Critical in this context means it will start generating prodigious additional amounts of heat and that dramatically increases the risk of some type of explosion and fire. Once the core melts into containment, it will flow and disperse and become immediately subcritical.
Again, don't worry about the reactors...worry about the spent fuel pools.
Watch this to understand that you in Cali will be ok, relatively speaking.
http://www.geekosystem.com/every-nuclear-explosion-time-lapse/
Notice how many times the UK has nuked both Australia and the USA, and how many times France has nuked Africa.
Watch in 1967 when the US nukes itself on the Gulf coast near waht looks to me like Alabama.
white smoke = good (edit--unless it's a huge steam explosion)
black smoke = bad
It's generally understood that Chernobyl didn't hurt us over here. They would have to have a 'mega-Chernobyl' to get me worried for my family.
But Japan may be in serious doo-doo in the next few days.
Wait a second; I thought white smoke meant a new Pope was elected...
Next 20000 years.
A criticality event is likely to leads to a small explosion. Or a steam explosiion. Nothing like Hiroshima. It would actually be a good thing if it was not too big. It would prevent further criticality accidents. Still the situation is big time F*d up. CF all the way down.
You're gonna need a bigger server.
http://www.alexa.com/siteinfo/zerohedge.com#
I think this is the best month on record.
The infrastructure is so damaged, how can they expect to power everything up and get things cooled down? I'm not an engineer mind you, but I wasn't born yesterday either.
I discuss that very question some at the end of this:
http://powerandcontrol.blogspot.com/2011/03/worst-disaster-since-end-of-...
Restarting the pumps will have to be done carefully. They seem to be rushing things.
I'm a former Naval Nuke and have been following this rather closely (check my blog) and I must say that the longer this goes on the more Japan's Nuke industry looks like amateur hour even compared to the unprofessional standards of civilian nuclear power in the US.
Easy for the army to have better equipment than civillians when civillians have to pay for your nonsense.
I didn't know the Army had nuclear subs. I guess there's some military redundancy after all.
Are you saying civilians can't afford nuclear power? Give that man a seegar.
Hey Simon, you a twidgit, a sparky or a snipe?
twidget - coms - way back before the Navy had shipboard computers. RO DLG(N) - 25 Yeah. Back when it was a frigate.
First time at fight club zoogle? Because you definitely need your ass whooped.
Here is Tyler today seemingly disparaging the "manipulated media" for keeping the "average peasant" in the dark:
And here is Tyler yesterday seemingly complaining about not keeping the "average peasant" in the dark:
Which is it Tyler? Are you for or against keeping the "average peasant" in the dark?
Are you saying TD ever claimed anyone SHOULD keep average citizens in the dark?
(Looks like TD was pretty consistent)
And markets are rallying because.........
Large fireboats can spray thousands of gallons per minute over a thousand feet. There should be five of them in the water next to the power plant dosing the place. Barges with hundreds of megawatts of gas turbine generators are available to power up the plant. RPVs are available for just a few thousand dollars. They can fly down corridors in the plant and inspect things within a few meters. Where are they? Where are the night-time infrared photos showing hotspots? Fire trucks from airports can punch water nozzles through metal walls and spray tons of water. Where are they? Military APVs can carry many technicians and keep them safe from radiation clouds.
What idiots are running this joke of an operation?
By contrast the ROV operation at Deepwater Horizon was a flawless Russian ballet.
Relax man... it's the Japanese. Just when their tit's in the wringer nice and tight they'll fire up the Gundam or some shit. Goldar, Silvar and Gam will come in, like a robotic episode of Bonanza.
This culture is very regimented, they're not exactly self-starters. If they get told to do something, they'll do it until they're dead, resilient as hell. They don't have last names like Ripley, MacClain, Callahan... etc.
+50(ft. robot)
Apparently Rodak has taken control of reactor 4...Where are the Space Giants??
Idiots that aren't willing to walk into a lethal dose of ionizing radiation. Isn't that the epitomy of Ann Raynd's social darwinian thinking. Ther're smart, right, so they'll continue to accumulate wealth, breed, and pass the wealth along, and so on. It's their duty to save themselves, at the expense of others, for God's sake. Just like a modern corporation.
Oh, I see. You want one of those lucky public workers with their gold-plated pensions and cushy government jobs to actually act like a public servant and take one for the team. You're actually encouraging cooperative, collectivist behavior. Needs of the many, eh? Compassion, eh, you say? No way. Let's get rid of pesky regulation that stands in the way of innovation and put more backup generators in basements in tsunami-prone areas. Meh....
>>>Oh, I see. You want one of those lucky public workers with their gold-plated pensions and cushy government jobs to actually act like a public servant and take one for the team. You're actually encouraging cooperative, collectivist behavior.<<<
But only aftertthey take-away their ability to collectively bargain and cut their pensions by 50%.
At this point knowing what has been published, this should be now a military rescue operation.
Japan has to have tanks that are radioactive shielded like the M1 Abrams, why not use them? --> just mount the water canons on to the tank and there she go.
Even by the low standards of the US Civilian Nuclear industry what is going on in Japan is a clown show.
I dunno...I said fireboat 2 days ago. Where the fuck are they? Surely, Japan has these with as many ports as they've got.
If the engineers are bowing to the cultural norm, well to some people embarrassing the boss is worse than having the country blow up.
They don't seem to be really innovating that much and decisionmakers may not have realized until yesterday what the real problem is.
They started out thinking that preventing "meltdowns" was their goal...they didn't deal with hydrogen buildup well, and only yesterday did they seem to start addressing the SFPs. Surely, engineers knew at the outset that UNCONTAINED fuel rods posed a bigger risk than contained ones and should have been the immediate focus
If my dumb ass was able to figure it out last weekend and start asking about it, of course they knew. They have been lying through their fucking teeth the entire time.
The radiation is so high, it's already causing many to post the same thing 8 times.
+I-131
Keep reporting live from Tokyo MSM.. glowing soon. BBC, Bloombrg, Fox.
I'd bet money that paid propagandists from .gov are flooding the site.
Enact countermeasures.
The most interesting observation is that the helicopters can not safely get close enogh to dump the water such that it lands on the "target". Which means operation bucket dump is completely useless. Even if they could get the payload right on target it would still be a a "hail mary pass" at best.
Up from the depths
Thirty stories high
Breathing fire
His head in the sky
Godzilla!
Godzilla!
Godzilla!
And Godzookie....
Still wondering: does going critical come to a quick end and be over, or does it become an ongoing source of radiation?
Just means it can make itself hotter. Rest depends on circumstances. Most likely just gets meltier.
"going critical" (I hope) is not what he really meant to say. Going "critical mass" is a term used to explain that the nuclear material fissions, spitting and popping, like in "little boy" and "fat man" (1945)
not a good day, "bitchez"
At this point they are making gestures for the sake of appearences.
The helicopters make it look as though they are doing something; Prime Minister probably ordered them in with or without the backing of TEPCO.
They need some newsreel footage of someone doing something.
Bodies of dead plant workers and body bags would not do it; and they can't have a mass panic exodus from Tokyo.
Smart ones left yesterday, the rest will dribble out as reality dawns on them.
At this point they are making gestures for the sake of appearences.
That is my estimate as well. Charlie Foxtrot.
Right on. As I said, highly paid authorities worldwide have adopted the sports technique: 'It's not whether you win or lose, it's how you look playing the game'. (If you get run down 15 feet from home plate, come up limping. Stuff like that.)
TEPCO and the Japanese authorities will be giving new dimension to the technique.
I'll just leave this here.
AJW by the Asahi ShimbunTEPCO releases images of stricken plant
Tokyo Electric Power Co. on Thursday released images of two stricken reactors at the Fukushima No. 1 nuclear power plant taken from a helicopter on Wednesday. http://www.facebook.com/AJW.Asahi
Wonder if the spent fuel crane and the fragments in frame 00:31 of the helicopter flyby are exactly the same bright green color by coincidence...or if the green wreckage in the video is the remains of the spent fuel crane in unit 3?
So basically the japanese government/bureaucrafts have been managing the info from the onset so it is worthless to listen to them. The reasonable assumption seems to be that this things going to blow - the trend is worst case senario becomes reality. The situation only gets worse as it progresses so if they are only going to shoot spitballs at it they may as well pack it in and make travel plans. The forcast for the US for the foreseeable is nuclear rain - they are saying it won't amount to much which leads me to believe the opposite is true. What will happen to property values on the west coast when they start getting elevated readings.
What plan does our president have - the silence is incredible.
8,000 miles (give or take) can dissipate a lot of radiation especially if it originates at a level a few thousad feet above ground or less.
i agree that on the surface it would seem that way but i'd like to see some dispersion modeling i suupose it won't be shot as high as from a volcano so maybe it won't travel so far but why the lack of communication on our side
“Obviously, all energy sources have their downside. I mean, we saw that with the Gulf spill last summer.” ....Barack Obama, in response to Japans nightmare.
I have a bad feeling about all this- but its hard to assess if this is worse than 1986 in the soviet block
Well, from what I know, the soviets sent miners to dig a cavern, witch was then flooded with concrete (I think it was concrete), under reactor No.4 in Chernobyl to prevent the nuclear fuel from melting through the ground and reaching an aquifer. Had the molten fuel reached that deep there would be a steem explosion that would blast the fuel into the atmosphere and render a big part of europe uninhabitable. Besides the miners directly under the uranium blob, there where clean up crews (army conscripts) working in short shifts cleaning the site around the clock- basicaly ALOT OF PEOPLE... Many died, moast lived lives stricken with health problems...
Now, my point is: 90% of the crew got evacuated (what RT reported) from the Fukushima facility... What were seing is water cannons and helicopters dropping water on the site from a distance... This brings up many questions: are there crews inside the facility trying to get it under controll?? If not- does this mean that its way too dangerous to be anywhere inside, or does it mean that the situation is well under controll with just the seawater pumping measure??
The problem in comparing with Chernobyl is the fact that the rescue and clean up over there was done with complete contempt for the lives of the first responders. Another aspect is the amount of fuel and spent fuel involved in both cases... Is there more Uranium ready to burn up/melt down at Fukushima or was there more in reactor No.4??
Is it time for a BBQ? Wrap some bankers in foil for slow cooking then some rice, beer or whatever they have local.
Whats better then some pulled pork, rice and beer. Maybe some cornbread and spices.
I think we can get enought people to lead-paint that town.
If you want some hickory flavor we can add that to those hot rocks. Whats better then a good BBQ on a cold day.
How many think that all that floating "trash" in that big water isn't going to wash up on some shore. Recycle? Well maybe we can get a good BBQ going and some recreation to enjoy the day for on the marrow we die.
-http://bible.cc/1_corinthians/15-32.htm
Comment on Reuters blog:
Mayor Richard Daley acknowledged today passengers on a flight from Tokyo had set off radiation detectors at O’Hare International Airport, but he offered no details and said federal officials will be handling the situation.
“Of course the protection of the person coming off the plane is very important in regards to any radiation, especially within their families and anything else,” Daley said at a downtown news conference to discuss his trip to China this week.
City Aviation Commissioner Rosemarie Andolino would only say, “We are aware that occurred yesterday. We are working with Customs and Border Protection on this issue." She referred reporters to the Department of Homeland Security
bananas actually also set off port rad detectors. Humans normally don't emit radiation which is why this is exceptional.
TEPCO is desperately seeking any information on this whereabouts of this individual.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8dOHEw8izno
First laugh I've had on this subject....