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Utah Pushes To Accept Gold, Silver As Alternative Currency

Tyler Durden's picture




 

A month ago we reported that the state of Virginia has established a subcommittee to study alternatives in the case of a terminal "Fed" breakdown, and would propose gold as a sound alternative to the existing fiat currency. Now, the state of Utah has gone a step further and is actually voting, as early as today, on whether to recognize gold and silver coins, issued by the federal government, as legal currency, a move that would send a huge signal to the Marriner Eccles building that Americans have had enough of the Fed's dollar debasement. "The coins would not replace the current paper currency but would be used and accepted voluntarily as an alternative." Reports Foxnews: "The legislation, which has 12 co-sponsors, would let Utahans pay their taxes with gold and also calls for a committee to study alternative currencies for the state. It would also exempt the sale of gold from the state capital gains tax. The bill cleared a state legislative committee on Wednesday, the first of 11 similar bills in statehouses across the country to do so. If the bill clears the House, it would have to pass the Senate before the governor could sign it into law." Paying taxes in gold? Interesting. We certainly hope this was not highlighted due to being the only viable use of funds, as one would question the legitimacy of the entire proposal. Finally: "Attorney and Tea Party activist Larry Hilton, author of the original bill, said he doesn't foresee any roadblocks." We shall see about that, but in the meantime it is worth highlighting that the onslaught against the dollar is coming not only from China which as we reported yesterday is pushing to convert the renminbi to a global reserve currency, but from within, as more and more states realize that the viability of the dollar is now crippled, thanks to the Chairprinter.

From FoxNews:

"There's enough uneasiness going on in the economy to trigger people to feel that, hey, having a little Plan B, kind of a backup system, is not a bad idea," he told FoxNews.com.

The U.S. used some version of the gold standard from 1873 until 1933, when President Franklin D. Roosevelt outlawed the private ownership of gold amid the Great Depression. An international monetary system based on a gold-exchange standard continued until 1971 when President Richard Nixon stopped the U.S. from redeeming dollars for gold altogether.

Critics of the gold standard say it limits countries' control over its monetary policy and leaves them vulnerable to financial shocks, such as the Great Depression. But supporters argue that the current financial system's dependence on the Federal Reserve exposes the value of U.S. money to the threat of inflation.

Not surprisingly, Ron Paul is all over this proposal:

Rep. Ron Paul, a longtime critic of the Federal Reserve who has called on a return to the gold standard, has praised Hilton's efforts.

"Efforts such as yours in states around the country highlight the importance of returning to sound money," Paul wrote in a letter to Hilton. "Even if such efforts fail to achieve legislative success on their first try, their importance lies in bringing to the public's attention the problem of the ever-weakening dollar and the necessity of returning to a sound monetary system."

While the original bill proposed by Hilton also required foreign minted coins to be accepted as legal tender, the revision only limits US produced coins. Even with this setback, Hilton said that he's "willing to take it step-by step."

As we reported yesterday, Bernanke told the Senate yesterday that he does no envision the gold standard as a viable alternative to the disastrous fiat system currently in place, which has resulted in revolutions across the development world. "It did deliver price stability over long periods of time, but over shorter periods of time it caused wide swings in prices related to changes in demand or supply of gold. So I don't think it's a panacea." Supposedly Bernanke has not seen the VIX in 2008.

The bill, once passed will be a critical stepping stone to not only undermining the dollar but to further stablishing gold as a true reserve currency alternative:

Jeff Bell, a policy director for the Washington-based American Principles in Action (APPIA), which helped shape the Utah bill, told FoxNews.com that passage of the bill would send a message to Washington and other states.

"People sense that in the era of quantitative easing and zero interest rates, something has gone haywire with our monetary policy. But people are afraid to say it," said Bell, who was an adviser to Ronald Reagan's 1976 and 1980 presidential campaigns. "If one state recognizes gold as a valid currency, I think it would embolden people not just in other states but in Washington."

Bell credited Tea Party activists for advancing the legislation this far. Rep. Brad Galvez, who introduced the legislation, is a freshman legislator backed by the Tea Party.

"Saying we now recognize gold as money is a big step forward," he said.

And once Utah proves a successful test bed of this near-revolutionary refutation of the Chairman's ideology, everyone else will follow:

Twelve other states have offered similar proposals: Georgia, Montana, Missouri, Colorado, Indiana, Iowa, New Hampshire, South Carolina, Tennessee, Washington, Vermont and Oklahoma.

It goes without saying that we will track these developments closely, and carefully observe who(and why) voices any opposition to comparable proposals elsewhere. 

 

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Thu, 03/03/2011 - 23:15 | 1017370 drbill
drbill's picture

Gresham's Law!

Who in their right mind would use gold to pay their taxes when you could pay them with paper?

Thu, 03/03/2011 - 23:20 | 1017385 Dr. Porkchop
Dr. Porkchop's picture

That was my first thought... why surrender gold to pay taxes, pay them in their own useless paper! Preserve your wealth in gold and silver. They'll be worth so much more than that down the road.

Thu, 03/03/2011 - 23:45 | 1017459 Cyrano de Bivouac
Cyrano de Bivouac's picture

No, the state government could adjust for the depreciation of the dollar- if you owed 2,000$ in taxes you could pay with 1 oz. at 1,400$.

Thu, 03/03/2011 - 23:47 | 1017470 Dr. Porkchop
Dr. Porkchop's picture

Better yet, you could offer to pay taxes in unallocated gold certificates.

Sun, 03/20/2011 - 22:37 | 1080420 zaphod
zaphod's picture

+10 brilliant

Fri, 03/04/2011 - 02:29 | 1017742 chumbawamba
chumbawamba's picture

Riiiiiiight.  Who gets to choose the basis date for the depreciation?  What if the dollar appreciates sharply?

Render unto Caesar that which is Caesar's.

I am Chumbawamba.

Fri, 03/04/2011 - 05:18 | 1017855 baby_BLYTHE
baby_BLYTHE's picture

Joe <3

Fri, 03/04/2011 - 07:00 | 1017909 Bendromeda Strain
Bendromeda Strain's picture

Who is Joe Duncetesticles?

Fri, 03/04/2011 - 05:31 | 1017863 Clampit
Clampit's picture

State governments provide services that are most often cited as evidence of government's necessity.

The bigger question then becomes do state gold valuations necessarily translate into federal valuations? States could finally play central banker to their advantage. Best to be ready for secession, even if only monetary, and I'm glad my state's on the list. That and the patently absurd concept discussed later on of a dormant metal gaining capital.

Fri, 03/04/2011 - 06:19 | 1017884 zhandax
zhandax's picture

I can understand Paul's encouragement by a sign that the population at large is not totally fuckin brain dead. However, as mentioned, as long as the state will accept useless Crane cotton for taxes, only a damnfool would use something else. Other than a sign of the above, what purpose does this bill serve? As far as I know, gold and silver coinage was never de-monetized; i.e. it can still be used by someone dumb enough to send a load of double eagles for tax payments at face. Chumbawamba, there is no mention of any adjustment for real value here.  This bill just restates constitutional law. "Full of sound and fury, etc, etc".

I am reminded of the instance last year when the 19 year old at the dry cleaner gave me a 1964 Kennedy in change and apologized for it. When I realized what it was, I asked if she had any more. She had accepted 10 earlier in payment and admitted she thought they may be fake. I offered her $5.00 for the remainder which she eagerly accepted.  Who will train the young morons accepting this 'new' currency?  The price of tungsten double eagle blanks on eBay ready for plating will skyrocket.

The fundamental issue here is not the acceptance of real money....it is the underlying value of same.  Twenty dollars haven't been worth an ounce of crown gold since they were all confiscated to disguise paper's devaluation and it has been downhill since.

Fri, 03/04/2011 - 07:14 | 1017914 CH1
CH1's picture

Caesar gets what he earns in voluntary trade... or else he's a criminal... period!

Fri, 03/04/2011 - 08:43 | 1017967 jimijon
jimijon's picture

I minted a coin for that Chumba ... http://www.mundogold.com

cheers

Fri, 03/04/2011 - 11:40 | 1018631 chumbawamba
chumbawamba's picture

Hey, nice job ;)

Fri, 03/04/2011 - 12:45 | 1019008 DosZap
DosZap's picture

You still lose your PHYSICAL GOLD.

Never fly.

Thu, 03/03/2011 - 23:50 | 1017477 jeff montanye
jeff montanye's picture

fyi, according to some old charts on http://www.chartsrus.com/ gold and silver peaked before the exploitation of the new world: gold at a real (early 90's?) $2400 (?) and silver at a real $800 (?).  may have both bottomed in the last decade or so.  that's an impressive bear market to reverse. 

Fri, 03/04/2011 - 02:12 | 1017720 grok
grok's picture

in an ideal world, wouldn't this make the concept of capital gains on gold obsolete?  If gold is treated as a currency, it IS par, why would you pay gains taxes on it?  Isn't this what we want?  We may not get a backed currency right away, but isn't this a step towards that?

Fri, 03/04/2011 - 07:22 | 1017916 Bobbyrib
Bobbyrib's picture

A gold back currency is the worst idea I have ever heard of. Whose gold do you think will be backing the currency? Your neighbor's who believes gold is a worthless relic of the past? Giving politicians something of value and expecting them to not cheat the public is a fantasy.

Fri, 03/04/2011 - 09:10 | 1018015 buzzard
buzzard's picture

My first thought too... At this point I can't imagine giving any state or municipal government  any silver. Since FRNs aren't worth anything, if you insist on paying them something it would be an easy call in my book. But what do I know?

Thu, 03/03/2011 - 23:22 | 1017389 bankrupt JPM bu...
bankrupt JPM buy silver's picture

ASE are legal tender, this should not be a problem...its constitutional.  But I guess so is printing money so....

 

www.silvergoldsilver.blogspot.com

Fri, 03/04/2011 - 02:13 | 1017723 grok
grok's picture

what is ASE, I assume you mean some kind of bullion.  I think what we have now is that it is legal tender, but only for the face value of the coin.  That's no good.

Fri, 03/04/2011 - 02:33 | 1017746 chumbawamba
chumbawamba's picture

American Silver Eagles have a legal tender face value of One Dollar.  Just as pre-mid-1982 US pennies have a legal tender face value of One Cent (bullion value = ~3 cents) and a US nickel has a legal tender face value of Five Cents (bullion value = ~7.3 cents).

For Internal Revenue Service purposes, the value of exactly one ounce of silver or one ounce of gold depends on whether valuing it at face value or bullion value puts more money into the coffers of the government.

I am Chumbawamba.

Fri, 03/04/2011 - 08:25 | 1017949 johnQpublic
johnQpublic's picture

ever wonder why they dont make a thousand dollar or ten thousand dollar gold coin, fifty dollar silver eagle?

 

Fri, 03/04/2011 - 12:49 | 1019046 DosZap
DosZap's picture

Correctomundo, before it has a chance it has to have a floating rate scale.

The coinage would have to be be revalued, mixed with cupro/copper, to make them a viable option, and that takes an act of Congress, and the Mint.

Thu, 03/03/2011 - 23:34 | 1017423 Misean
Misean's picture

I gotta read the posts before posting.

Thu, 03/03/2011 - 23:36 | 1017426 cxl9
cxl9's picture

Perhaps they'll offer a discount.

But seriously, this is just a show of "no confidence" in the dollar, or at least in current dollar monetary policy. It's not like anyone is actually going to pay their taxes in gold.

Fri, 03/04/2011 - 02:13 | 1017726 grok
grok's picture

Yep I'm with you there!

Fri, 03/04/2011 - 10:13 | 1018219 cranky-old-geezer
cranky-old-geezer's picture

State governments really have nothing to gain by accepting gold / silver coins because money they take in goes out very quickly before it has a chance to appreciate in value (gold / silver coins) or depreciate in value (dollars).

This assumes gold / silver coins are valued at current spot price for gold / silver, not face value.  If accepted merely at face value they gain trmendously, but who would accept mere face value for their gold / silver coins?

Fri, 03/04/2011 - 03:04 | 1017776 hugolp
hugolp's picture

Gresham's Law only applies if there is an artificial mandated price between the currencies. If they freely float then its not an issue.

Fri, 03/04/2011 - 03:24 | 1017794 traderjoe
traderjoe's picture

Every transaction that occurs in PM's further legitimizes their use as both a money and a currency. This would allow citizens to convert their fiat to PM's earlier - since they can pay their state taxes with it. Shopkeepers will be more willing to accept PM's for the same reasons. Increasing the uses for gold helps it's value. Hoarding it does not. Making it a money of the few hurts it's value and it's usefulness. Velocity matters.

Fri, 03/04/2011 - 03:57 | 1017810 strannick
strannick's picture

Exactly. Paper back to the paper pushers and save your metal for stuff you need, to get from people who know value

Fri, 03/04/2011 - 05:16 | 1017854 samlowrey
samlowrey's picture

Exactly!

Fri, 03/04/2011 - 08:21 | 1017945 johnQpublic
johnQpublic's picture

i want to see a proposal to pay PEOPle who work for government in gold

ditto your thought on paying them in gold

 

people=public employees...not "representatives"

Fri, 03/04/2011 - 09:18 | 1018032 tmosley
tmosley's picture

A bill "allowing" payment in gold is the first step toward a bill "requiring" payment in gold.  

That is how you force gold to circulate in a hurry.  It is NOT a violation of Gresham's Law, but a repudiation of the bad currency.

Fri, 03/04/2011 - 12:58 | 1019089 DosZap
DosZap's picture

This would turn out very badly.For us.

It would result in confiscation.Unless the Gv't revalued gold on hand to meet currency in circulation, and coupled only be used in the states.

Fri, 03/04/2011 - 11:41 | 1018645 chopper read
chopper read's picture

Blythe Masters is melting.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j7GJcKuVGm8

Sat, 03/05/2011 - 15:11 | 1022164 Windemup
Windemup's picture

As the rains return to the midwest US.

Thu, 03/03/2011 - 23:14 | 1017371 bob_dabolina
bob_dabolina's picture

This demeans my people and should not be pursued.

-Eric Holder

Fri, 03/04/2011 - 02:36 | 1017750 chumbawamba
chumbawamba's picture

Ya gotta call a spade a spade.

I am Chumbawamba.

Fri, 03/04/2011 - 13:05 | 1019095 DosZap
DosZap's picture

Eric Holder should be a trash collecter....racist bastard.

Whats this MY PEOPLE shit?, whites say that and are skewered,MY PEOPLE means Blacks are different than other  Americans.

Either your an American or your  COLOR doesn't matter.

ANYMORE.

We need a National Association of Caucasian Folks, and a Miss White America, a White America College Fund.

This one sided shit is way past OLD.

Time to get EQUAL RIGHTS.

Thu, 03/03/2011 - 23:16 | 1017373 stoneman sacked
stoneman sacked's picture

Pay taxes in gold! I had a hearty laugh. It is like the matrix. Just another system of control

Fri, 03/04/2011 - 00:59 | 1017626 Non Passaran
Non Passaran's picture

Ha, ha, ha, that was very funny! But it doesn't make any sense. If I store most of my savings in PMs and my 2010 tax amounts to say 14K, now I could pay my tax bill with with 10oz of gold (a good deal as I paid only 12K for it last year). This makes perfect sense also because as a result more people would buy/invest in physical.

Fri, 03/04/2011 - 02:43 | 1017754 chumbawamba
chumbawamba's picture

Your gains would be higher if you didn't have to pay sales tax on each of your purchases because they would almost all likely be below $1,500, and being able to deduct it after the fact is little consolation.  You still lost that gain to a bullshit tax.

But otherwise, yes, it does make sense to invest in gold, then sell some when you need to pay your taxes, if the government would let you do that, but they don't, because they either take their tithe from every one of your paychecks, or they require you to file and pay quarterly if you're self-employed.  So either way you don't really get to reap the true gains you might have otherwise if you could just pay at the end of the year and keep your money in gold until your liability is due.  Sorry, nope, you naive slave.  Your money is THEIR money, and then you get what's left over.

Pop Quiz: how did it come to be that people who are self-employed and not incorporated are required to pay the federal income tax?

I am Chumbawamba.

Fri, 03/04/2011 - 04:58 | 1017834 hound dog vigilante
hound dog vigilante's picture

Both of you are missing the real point(s) of this bill/news. This is a re-assertion of states rights, for one, and it legitimizes PMs as a medium of exchange. Gold and silver - sanctioned at the state-level in direct defiance of the Fed and federalism. More baby steps like this, and before you know it we'll be re-building this country's economy from the bottom up.

 

Paying your taxes with PMs may or may not be a wise move... personally I would rather unload evaporating FRNs on the state and keep my PM. But these are insignificant details relative to the massive shift towards local/personal sovereignty that bills like this one truly represent. This bill's not forcing anyone to pay their taxes w/ PMs. Rather, from between the lines of this bill a clear message is sent, "the state of Utah recognizes that FRNs are toilet paper." Yeah, most taxes are unconstutional - I get it. But let's not stand still for fear that our strides be to short.

Federalism, Corporatism, Socialism... all are under attack, at long last. I couldn't be happier. I look around and i see people taking action at the local & personal level, and in some areas this activism is trickling-up to state politics. Fantastic. Some people think this is 'doom and gloom' or extremist or whatever. I think its progress. I think its rational. May we see more of it.

Fri, 03/04/2011 - 05:42 | 1017870 J_Perkins
J_Perkins's picture

Amen

Fri, 03/04/2011 - 11:44 | 1018654 chumbawamba
chumbawamba's picture

Eh.  If they want to make a statement then don't obfuscate it by linking it to payment of taxes (of all fucking things).  I would prefer if our so-called "statesmen" act like it and stop trying to hide whatever message they're trying to make behind stupid bills that will ultimately serve to just make the ignorant people scoff.

I am Chumbawamba.

Fri, 03/04/2011 - 07:54 | 1017927 Moe Howard
Moe Howard's picture

Don't ask questions like that pop quiz.

It makes the Federales nervous.

 

 

<HELP> for explanation

Fri, 03/04/2011 - 10:46 | 1018298 cranky-old-geezer
cranky-old-geezer's picture

Pop Quiz: how did it come to be that people who are self-employed and not incorporated are required to pay the federal income tax?

That's easy.  They have a social security number (federal government ID number), making them a wholly owned subject (slave) of the federal government.

Same thing when you get a license plate with a state-issued registration number on it (state government ID number) for your vehicle.  You just transfered ownership of your vehicle to the state.  They own it now.

I'm surprised so few people here know these things.  Cops certainly know it.

Fri, 03/04/2011 - 13:07 | 1019141 DosZap
DosZap's picture

You didn't pay taxes on our gains?.
IRS got a 1099 from who you bought it from, if a dealer.

Sat, 03/05/2011 - 01:05 | 1021497 oygevalt
oygevalt's picture

Please see here for some clarification re the 1099 issue: www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/i1099msc.pdf.  It may clear up some common questions.

Thu, 03/03/2011 - 23:17 | 1017374 tired1
tired1's picture

Another Fort Sumpter?

Thu, 03/03/2011 - 23:21 | 1017383 Hearst
Hearst's picture

The report at Fox news mentions Silver in the headline, but I couldn't find anywhere in the posted legislation saying this pertained to anything but Gold.  Did I miss it?

Thu, 03/03/2011 - 23:25 | 1017393 Mercury
Mercury's picture

"The legislation, which has 12 co-sponsors, would let Utahans pay their taxes with gold and also calls for a committee to study alternative currencies for the state."

 

Uh, I think I'd rather pay the state with dollars and keep my gold for myself thanks.


Thu, 03/03/2011 - 23:27 | 1017395 Dr. Porkchop
Dr. Porkchop's picture

You can bet that whatever gold they collect in lieu of dollars for taxes will never see the light of day again.

Thu, 03/03/2011 - 23:34 | 1017418 Mercury
Mercury's picture

What was their next best idea?....if you're Brooklyn Decker we'll be happy to take it out in trade?  http://fashr.com/files/images/brooklyn-decker.gif

Thu, 03/03/2011 - 23:37 | 1017437 Dr. Porkchop
Dr. Porkchop's picture

Now that's gold.

Fri, 03/04/2011 - 10:59 | 1018425 living on the edge
living on the edge's picture

She keeps staring at me with lust in her eyes. LOL

Thu, 03/03/2011 - 23:28 | 1017397 barliman
barliman's picture

 

Another sign that until we get a reset back to reality (e.g. TBTF fail and all their little piggies with them, QEx becomes untenable and the Chairsatan is taken into protective custody) all the rounding of pi to 3 and alternative currency discussions in state legislatures will only make the inevitable worse when it comes to pass

 

barliman

Thu, 03/03/2011 - 23:31 | 1017399 wretch
wretch's picture

Hold your gold, Utahans.  Even if you agree with this proposal ideologically, it will facilitate the transfer of real money (gold) from the people to the central government.  Fuck that.

Fri, 03/04/2011 - 08:13 | 1017935 Bobbyrib
Bobbyrib's picture

I wish everyone would understand the concept that if you give your PMs to the state, they will keep it. They will be out to obtain as much as possible. The people who rip you off on a daily basis (in government) will keep accumulating real wealth and access to PM's will start to dry up.

It's scary to see people think it's a good sign that states will accept PM's as payment for taxes as a good sign. They are only one step ahead of all the other sheeple (accumulation).

Fri, 03/04/2011 - 10:08 | 1018205 prole
prole's picture

Only positive I can see in this is that it allows PM holders to redeem their gold and avoid all "capital gains" tax on the amount. Of course it's just on wealth being stolen from you but that battle is already lost it seems. Well plus it puts the whole idea of gold as money out there, as noted.

Downside the .gov gets the precious and we get their phoney paper. I am scared as another poster noted that todays "may" pay in gold is tomorrows "required to" pay in gold. On "toll roads" which gas taxes already payed for, the .gov already doesn't accept paper currency, you must pay by Mark of the Beast on your car, the notes which are "legal for all debts public and private" aren't, like all other government promises. Hi ZH

Fri, 03/04/2011 - 21:13 | 1021103 Bobbyrib
Bobbyrib's picture

I doubt they would allow the average citizen not to pay capital gains taxes. Gold will be money not matter what the government does. I agree with you and the other poster that they may require citizens to pay taxes in gold. I don't trust 95% of politicians.

Thu, 03/03/2011 - 23:31 | 1017407 buzzsaw99
buzzsaw99's picture

They wish people would pay in gold. Pay your taxes with clownbux Utah.

Fri, 03/04/2011 - 03:01 | 1017774 chumbawamba
chumbawamba's picture

Better yet, don't pay.

I am Chumbawamba.

Fri, 03/04/2011 - 09:17 | 1018030 buzzard
buzzard's picture

Amen... and amen.

Fri, 03/04/2011 - 13:13 | 1019174 DosZap
DosZap's picture

And lose your paid for home?.

Not a smart move.

Thu, 03/03/2011 - 23:37 | 1017408 Judge Judy Scheinlok
Judge Judy Scheinlok's picture

Multiple wives require lots of metal.

A little must watch:
"MUST WATCH: The Curious Case For $936 Ounce Silver"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bru2tVghbqw

Fri, 03/04/2011 - 03:25 | 1017797 slewie the pi-rat
slewie the pi-rat's picture

Judy:  can you or yer fist puppet, tyler, tell me why tf my package~~~;) of Nestle Toll House Oatmeal Scotchies (Oatmeal Cookies w/ Butterscotch Morsels) says, right on the front:  DO NOT CONSUME RAW COOKIE DOUGH ???

if there are dead nannies before sundown, you shall know why.  stay tuned for how @ 11!

Fri, 03/04/2011 - 08:12 | 1017934 Judge Judy Scheinlok
Judge Judy Scheinlok's picture

Real Pie Rats do not concern themselves with such matters.

The high seas, gold, wenches, and wine. Get your priorities in order and command will be yours, else it's off to celebrity pi-rat rehab, getit?

Thu, 03/03/2011 - 23:33 | 1017412 Milton Waddams
Milton Waddams's picture

BTW, any time you hear Bernanke mumble something about how there is no fiscal component to quantitative easing be sure to point him to the paper he co-authored. http://www.federalreserve.gov/pubs/feds/2004/200448/200448pap.pdf

A second possible channel for quantitative easing to influence the economy is the fiscal channel. This channel relies on the observation that sufficiently large monetary injections will materially relieve the government’s budget constraint, permitting tax reductions or increases in government spending without increasing public holdings of government debt (Bernanke, 2003; Auerbach and Obstfeld, 2004). Effectively, the fiscal channel is based on the government’s substitution of the inflation tax (a tax with little or no deadweight loss in a deflationary environment) for direct taxes such as income taxes. Auerbach and Obstfeld (2004) provide a detailed analysis of both the macroeconomic and welfare effects of the fiscal channel and find that these effects are potentially quite substantial. These authors also note, however, that the fiscal effect of quantitative easing will be attenuated or absent if the public expects today’s monetary injections to be withdrawn in the future.

Thu, 03/03/2011 - 23:37 | 1017430 Temporalist
Temporalist's picture

"A tax with little or no deadweight loss" that is funny.  Inflation taxing the middle class is meaningless to the PhD Economists.  They admit they are taxing people to pay for the crimes of bankers and are getting away with it. 

Fri, 03/04/2011 - 00:16 | 1017545 trav7777
trav7777's picture

well, according to the Bernank's metrics, we are in deflation.  He doesn't live out here in the real world.

Fri, 03/04/2011 - 01:10 | 1017640 KinorSensase
KinorSensase's picture

Both.  It's the twisted tango.

nicole foss at 13:26

http://rt.com/programs/keiser-report/episode-98/

 

 

Fri, 03/04/2011 - 08:17 | 1017940 Bobbyrib
Bobbyrib's picture

Ben understands what he is doing to the average person, he just doesn't care. He lies in his testmonies to Congress constantly. I wish people would stop giving him so much credit (believe he doesn't know he is fucking every non-banker over).

Fri, 03/04/2011 - 00:55 | 1017620 Oh regional Indian
Oh regional Indian's picture

"These authors also note, however, that the fiscal effect of quantitative easing will be attenuated or absent if the public expects today’s monetary injections to be withdrawn in the future."

And there, in the man's (or the paper authors') own words is the rationale for QE to infinity. And beyond.

Up up and far away, from reality that is. If they say never, they mean always.

Good to remember that.

ORI

http://aadivaahan.wordpress.com/2011/03/03/straykitty-wrote-in-after-a-while/

 

 

Thu, 03/03/2011 - 23:33 | 1017414 Temporalist
Temporalist's picture

Can they demand refunds in gold?

Thu, 03/03/2011 - 23:36 | 1017429 Dr. Porkchop
Dr. Porkchop's picture

Hell no, refunds would be issued in non redeemable funnybux.

Fri, 03/04/2011 - 01:35 | 1017673 Non Passaran
Non Passaran's picture

But that goes against the theory that the government is tying to surprise the price of gold!

Thu, 03/03/2011 - 23:47 | 1017469 Shameful
Shameful's picture

IIRC an earlier proposal would allow state workers to be paid in gold/silver at the going spot rate. Not sure if that is in there now.

Fri, 03/04/2011 - 03:15 | 1017788 chumbawamba
chumbawamba's picture

Impractical.  The State would have to pass the requisite laws, including requiring businesses to accept payment in gold and silver.  New equipment, scales, software upgrades to allow direct price updates for gold and silver in real-time, etc.  There would have to be a transition period, during which time people would figure out how to work the system to siphon bullion out of the state.  Supply would be a problem from the get go and wouldn't let up.  Eventually the state wouldn't be able to source any new supply to pay the workers.  They'd then have to go back to FRN, and then you'll get Wisconsin as the state workers get pissed that they're no longer being paid in constantly and rapidly appreciating gold and silver.

Basically, as long as Osama Ben Inflation keeps up what he's doing there will be no incentive for people to put the gold and silver they get paid with back into the system.  They'd sell some for grociers and gas and daily life and crap but that next person will simply stick it in the safe or the sock in the closet and wait for them to come around the next time.

A great idea, but not yet.

I am Chumbawamba.

Fri, 03/04/2011 - 08:47 | 1017978 jimijon
jimijon's picture

I created an App for that actually. "BarterCalc"

Soon I will start development on BarterCalcPro

cheers

Thu, 03/03/2011 - 23:34 | 1017415 Misean
Misean's picture

Who'd pay in silver as long as Benny Bucks are in high supply, and getting cheaper by the minute?

Thu, 03/03/2011 - 23:38 | 1017438 RockyRacoon
RockyRacoon's picture

Think of it like flowers on Valentine's Day -- it's the thought that counts.

You can't eat flowers either.

Fri, 03/04/2011 - 02:36 | 1017751 Al Gorerhythm
Al Gorerhythm's picture

math man, Johnny Bravo, William the retarded bastard for three.

Thu, 03/03/2011 - 23:35 | 1017428 vonuistic
vonuistic's picture

Better to pay one's employees in gold, $50 gold eagle for a weeks work.

People could then afford to pay taxes (in fiat).

Thu, 03/03/2011 - 23:36 | 1017432 Milton Waddams
Milton Waddams's picture

Isn't this the route to a soft confiscation? Soon you will be required to pay taxes only in gold and silver.

Fri, 03/04/2011 - 02:21 | 1017733 SilverRhino
SilverRhino's picture

>> Soon you will be required to pay taxes only in gold and silver.

That is how the Roman Empire did it.  Requiring payment of taxes in gold and silver would make instant outlaws of a few million people (owners of PMs) and instantly drive the price through the ROOF in FRNs.  

 

Fri, 03/04/2011 - 08:18 | 1017943 Bobbyrib
Bobbyrib's picture

It's amazing how there are people on this site who can't see that.

Thu, 03/03/2011 - 23:37 | 1017433 DavosSherman
DavosSherman's picture

I find it amazing that the federal government has to financially implode, the states have to go BK BEFORE these effing morons can figure out how to follow the Constitution.

Thu, 03/03/2011 - 23:42 | 1017452 Out9922
Out9922's picture

What's the Constitution?

Thu, 03/03/2011 - 23:44 | 1017457 Dr. Porkchop
Dr. Porkchop's picture

A barbarous relic. It was replaced by the USA Patriot Act.

Thu, 03/03/2011 - 23:50 | 1017478 GoinFawr
GoinFawr's picture

Wasn't it "Law of the Sea" or something even before that?

Fri, 03/04/2011 - 13:31 | 1019252 DosZap
DosZap's picture

No that is Admiralty (Maritime Law ), ever noticed the flags in a courthouse?. Those are Admiralty Flags, not meant to be used on land.

You will never see one in a US Court w/out the fringe.

Its illegal.Yet they do it.

Fri, 03/04/2011 - 00:44 | 1017599 randocalrissian
randocalrissian's picture

Dr. Porkchop now we have to call Barack and tell him to throw the killswitch.  Thanks.

Thu, 03/03/2011 - 23:41 | 1017444 Verum
Verum's picture

Just to be clear: bernanke's definition of price stability is an annually compounded devaluation of the currency.

Thu, 03/03/2011 - 23:45 | 1017461 Shameful
Shameful's picture

Awesome, love to see more people point out the emperor is naked. Like I've said the only chance we have to duck a nightmare police state is the individual states to seek the path of self preservation. The state govs don't want to be rendered totally powerless so best thing for us is for them to squabble with power with the Fed gov. No matter how insane the state govs are they pale in comparison to the madness and corruption of the Federal gov and it's bureaucracies. An alternative currency is a step in the direction of independence from the Fed.

Best friend is in SLC working and he says the locals are pissed about the inflation, and he mentioned this months ago. Guess feeding big families and you really notice those price increases :)

Thu, 03/03/2011 - 23:45 | 1017463 DavidPierre
DavidPierre's picture

Found this on an ECU forum today.

"Wynter_Benton update on their recent raid

With permission, I can update the results of our raid. It was successful beyond imagination but that "success" has spawned even more questions about the price of paper silver going forward. It was reported by SGS that he heard that on Friday Blythe was offering 30-50 percent premium and that at least 4500 hundred contracts will stand for delivery.

 I am here to give you a more accurate update (and a first hand account of what happened on Friday Feb 25).

Our group was detemined to stand for delivery going into Monday because we were not going to take a 30 percent premium on a price of $33.50. It was reported that Blythe offered 50 percent premium.

That was not even close in our case.

We got over 80 percent premium. That's right. Over $50 per contract on the condition that our group sell all our contracts. Our counterparty even threatened us with the ghost of Herstatt.

 They openly admitted that they could not deliver even 20 million ounces to us but that if we stood for delivery they would be sure that they make delivery to everyone else before they defaulted on us which would make us 'unsecured creditors'. They told us directly that they could not allow even 5000 contracts to stand for delivery because they could not deliver a mere 20 million ounces. Like Vito Corleone said, "I'm gonna make him an offer he can't refuse." And indeed we did not refuse as this was our intention all along.

These sets of facts from our traders lead us to believe that the paper price of silver may have a difficult time surpassing $36 because if the counterparty at the Comex is so willing to pay north of $50 to dissuade people from standing for delivery yet the paper price of silver is still under $35, then we suspect that losses triggered by derivatives is the main reason for the price suppression of silver.

 We can see no reason why they would not allow the paper price to go up yet are so glad to pay off the comex contracts to show the world that so few are standing for delivery.

In our mind, Comex could default with if as little as 4,000 contracts stood for delivery.

We are very curious to see how high the paper price of silver actually trades during this run.

Posted by Louis Cypher"

Given that the mint just stopped production of Silver Eagles... the rumors of a shortage in physical silver are greatly under estimated!

Via LeMet!

Thu, 03/03/2011 - 23:54 | 1017485 Shameful
Shameful's picture

You know the problem I have with this story? If I was Uncle Thug and these guys were pissing in my Wheaties like this I would just have them killed. At 80% premium they now have 0 incentive not to dive back in and do it again, only bigger! But a wave of suicides, car accidents, drug overdoses, and home invasions solves this problem.

But maybe I'm wrong, it is only dollars and it's not like there isn't a nearly infinite amount of dollars available. But if these traders were real dicks they would just close out the spot market for physical with the profits they make while pillaging the COMEX, and again I can't see Uncle Thug allowing that.

Fri, 03/04/2011 - 00:20 | 1017552 trav7777
trav7777's picture

killing people isn't just that easy...one or two maybe, but a whole gaggle of them?  Money is easily conjured, killers, not so much.

Fri, 03/04/2011 - 00:32 | 1017575 Shameful
Shameful's picture

Really what's a high class hit run these days? Not saying you run in and shoot them all but there are paid professionals that do this sort of thing, it's in the news. Granted sometimes they act like amateurs, like that guy in Pakistan, but they are available. Can use dollars to hire these classy gentleman as well.

The dollars is no problem, but like I said they would have an incentive to raid the physical market with the extra payout and continue the attack every month. Cycle goes through a few iterations and then have no physical at the spot price or the spot price rockets upwards making them even more money.

Fri, 03/04/2011 - 02:18 | 1017731 SilverRhino
SilverRhino's picture

decent hit, 1000 ozt Ag.

Fri, 03/04/2011 - 01:11 | 1017641 DavidPierre
DavidPierre's picture

"You know the problem I have with this story?"

......................................................

"Never... let 'Facts' get in the way of a damn good story."

W. R. Hearst ...*

{*or was it Joseph Pulizter?  I keep getting all the MSM/Nazi mouth-pieces mixed up.}

Fri, 03/04/2011 - 02:48 | 1017761 Al Gorerhythm
Al Gorerhythm's picture

The problem that I have with this story is:

These sets of facts from our traders lead us to believe that the paper price of silver may have a difficult time surpassing $36 because if the counterparty at the Comex is so willing to pay north of $50 to dissuade people from standing for delivery yet the paper price of silver is still under $35, then we suspect that losses triggered by derivatives is the main reason for the price suppression of silver.

It's the physical price that they have to worry about. If these guys have walked away with paper instead of physical @ 80% over spot , there ain't no one's going to get their hands on mine for less than $100, and even that's going at a song. Who'd accept paper for physical, now that the COMEX has confirmed that they are fucked. 

You'd have to b a Blythering idiot to take paper from this point on.

Fri, 03/04/2011 - 04:45 | 1017829 slewie the pi-rat
slewie the pi-rat's picture

 

alGore rhythmhmm:  both the phys and the derivs are in play i would opine.  the phys yes, certainly, but there are $ trilZ in derivatives which are susceptible to price deltaz phys, so yes, the tail IS wagging the dog, again, here, big time.

blythe has now had the time, motive, and opportunity to adjust/change her book, geniuses.  slewie has already spent two days this week standing around PM markets, watching  people bring in silver EVERYTHING for cash. green stamps. 

RIVERS of silver are flowing, and they are flowing thru the smelters as i write.  rivers.  today, only the most nimble candlestick will escape the fire to come.  here, we are getting firm indication that normal is passe and normalcy bias is gonna be fatal.  people are about to "get" the difference between an options contract and a futures contract, big time.  blythe, btw, already 'gets' it!

0 blythe! thou art in slewie's every dream!  put me on your silver leash.  whip me.  chain me.  command me to roll in the sawdust and spit.  if thou canst settle your near shorts in cash and your future longs in phys, my tongue will ne'er search for stranger honey anon.

Fri, 03/04/2011 - 05:22 | 1017844 Al Gorerhythm
Al Gorerhythm's picture

Slewie, thou doest speak in a tongue most strange. Wouldst thou simplify or expand on your first paragraph, prithee? What doest thou imply? It smacks of import. 

Me, myself and I are physical holders.

"here, we are getting firm indication that normal is passe and normalcy bias is gonna be fatal.  people are about to "get" the difference between an options contract and a futures contract, big time.  blythe, btw, already 'gets' it!"

How does this impact on a pure physical play, near term? If you are implying that there will be a price crash, why didn't Blythe crash it before these guys touched her up for an 80% grope?

Fri, 03/04/2011 - 13:43 | 1019312 DosZap
DosZap's picture

You'd have to b a Blythering idiot to take paper from this point on

 

At 80% premium, you would be an idiot NOT to.

How much more Silver could you purchase with that 80%?.A WAD.

Thu, 03/03/2011 - 23:46 | 1017467 Amish Hacker
Amish Hacker's picture

So would the state make me show proof of my cost basis for the PMs I'm using to pay my taxes, then charge me capital gains on their appreciation? I wouldn't put it past them.

Fri, 03/04/2011 - 09:45 | 1018120 tmosley
tmosley's picture

The article said they would abolish the capital gains tax on gold.

This is the important part, guys.  They are making gold money in Utah.  Even if it is still good money in a land awash in bad, it still removes one of the largest impediments to use of gold as "legitimate" currency.  This will make it so that you could, in theory, transact in gold anywhere in the US, and if you need FRN's, simply ship it to Utah for trade for them with no taxes.  Many other states would likely be forced to follow suit.

Thu, 03/03/2011 - 23:57 | 1017495 pyite
pyite's picture

I say this as a gold bug (and Utahn) who has had a significant percentage of my retirement in gold & gold mines - this is the stupidest idea of all time.  These morons need to learn the difference between "gold" and a "gold-backed currency."  Plus they have these things called "credit cards" that let you pay for things without the risk of getting robbed.  It's fantastic.

More seriously, a better approach toward more acceptance of gold as money would be the following:

  1. Stop charging sales tax on gold purchases - buying & selling gold should be just like exchanging 4 quarters for a dollar.
  2. Don't tax gold gains (and don't allow write-offs for gold losses when the bubble eventually bursts).
  3. Stop requiring ID every time someone buys/sells gold.  Going to the coin shop shouldn't feel the same as going to visit the pharmacist.

 

I mean, who cares if you can pay your taxes with gold coins?  Just convert to currency when you pay your taxes... people who think this is a real issue don't understand that gold is supposed to be "fire insurance" - something you hopefully never have to actually use.

 

Fri, 03/04/2011 - 03:12 | 1017786 dumpster
dumpster's picture

your in utah and pay a sales tax on gold huh

monarch and rust coin charge no sales tax what are you smoking ,, a burning bush

and the bill would not recognize a capital   gain ,,

 

Fri, 03/04/2011 - 15:03 | 1019712 DosZap
DosZap's picture

Most states require sales taxes on gold purchases under $1k

Fri, 03/04/2011 - 05:00 | 1017840 slewie the pi-rat
slewie the pi-rat's picture

PYITE:  hi.  morons?  in utah?  moroni's would be more like it.

speaking of which, you ain't one.

nice.

1, 2, 3...

yep.  shuffle up and DEAL!

Thu, 03/03/2011 - 23:57 | 1017498 reader2010
reader2010's picture

It ain't gonna do any good. This is the fukin' Amerika, where FRN is supposed to "settle all debts private or public." You fuck that rule, you're dead meat.

Fri, 03/04/2011 - 02:53 | 1017765 Al Gorerhythm
Al Gorerhythm's picture

It's supposed to but it doesn't now, does it!

Fri, 03/04/2011 - 15:05 | 1019724 DosZap
DosZap's picture

Not if you barter.

The issue is the Coins made here by the mint are stamped with a fake assed value.

Try getting around that...............good luck.

Thu, 03/03/2011 - 23:59 | 1017499 Captain Benny
Captain Benny's picture

Pay taxes in valuable precious metals?  Hell no... as long as fiat is cheap, I'll pay any taxes and debts with the fake stuff!  Gold & silver are for the day things get really hairy or the day when their value no longer exceeds that of the fiat.  I guarantee it will never be with Federal Reserve notes.

Thu, 03/03/2011 - 23:57 | 1017502 Atomizer
Atomizer's picture

Past:

Executive Order 11110
Amendment of Executive Order No. 10289, as amended, relating to the performance of certain functions affecting the Department of the Treasury

·         Signed: June 4, 1963

·         Federal Register page and date: 28 FR 5605; June 7, 1963

·         Amends: EO 10289, September 17, 1951

http://www.archives.gov/federal-register/executive-orders/1963-kennedy.html

 

Semi Present:

http://www.opencongress.org/bill/110-h2755/show

http://www.govtrack.us/congress/bill.xpd?bill=h110-2755

 

It only takes a small group to take action. Our country will not collapse, we can recoin & stick the burden of debt on the shoulders of the Federal Reserve creator's. China & other countries are way ahead of curve. Don't be caught as a bag holder.

Fri, 03/04/2011 - 00:00 | 1017512 ArkOmen1
ArkOmen1's picture

Boy these boys really have it bass ackwards! We're buying gold and silver because of high taxation and high inflation... Not so we can give it back to you paper idiots! You're dying, we will live when you parasite keynesian taxing inflation mother f****** melt away! What are these guys smoking? We don't intend on giving YOU our gold and silver... We intend on using it to live when this whole silly thing goes "poof"! Boy are these guys stupid!

Fri, 03/04/2011 - 00:06 | 1017522 celticgold
celticgold's picture

 beware Bwarny fwank -dodd SEC legislation as part of the SEC regulation act that is going to introduce heavy control of gold production , from ore to finished product, supposedly to stop DRC (congo) gold going to tewworwists. seems a little pointless as DRC gold is much less than 1% of gold produced in AFRICA ! Obviously , this is the thin edge of the wedge , and a very twicky way of kicking off a system total contwol of our favourite monetary metal (s), WORLDWIDE.  Somebody please, give bwwwarny a LONG holiday , far ,far away.

Fri, 03/04/2011 - 00:49 | 1017605 DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture

That's one the several reasons I bought some more today.

Git while the gittin' is good.

Fri, 03/04/2011 - 00:11 | 1017535 hudson
hudson's picture

Whe the feds pay my SS in gold in  2 oz = $67.00 in 1962. SS

I might pay in in gold

Fri, 03/04/2011 - 00:13 | 1017537 Jasper M
Jasper M's picture

1) Allowing gold to be used side by side with a non-backed currency is pointless, as the old law is "Bad money drives out good": people will preferentially part with the (perceived) less sound currency in payments, and retain the better.

2) The Chinese example is ludicrous. They will be selling their gold shortly. Or, given the Russian experience, the guys who loot their Treasury will sell it. 

Fri, 03/04/2011 - 00:18 | 1017541 silvertrain
silvertrain's picture

 

Fri, 03/04/2011 - 00:15 | 1017542 dark pools of soros
dark pools of soros's picture

the black swan will be when a small time farmer refuses, at gun point, to take sacks of cash for food instead of what he came to barter for...

 

Fri, 03/04/2011 - 00:31 | 1017568 Misean
Misean's picture

Small time farmers? What, do you think this is 1921 or something?

Fri, 03/04/2011 - 00:19 | 1017551 TJWP
TJWP's picture

If you willingly give the federal government or state government your gold or silver to pay your taxes, you are retarded and deserve everything that will happen to you.

Fri, 03/04/2011 - 00:21 | 1017553 ebworthen
ebworthen's picture

 

It will only happen if the LDS churce gives the seal of approval.

Marriner Eccles was LDS (Mormon).

I have no doubt that the state would like to collect taxes in the form of gold from their more obedient populace - not me.

Follow the bread crumbs - there are some interesting linkages there...

Fri, 03/04/2011 - 00:25 | 1017557 tickhound
tickhound's picture

Don't forget Virginia.

Fri, 03/04/2011 - 00:29 | 1017561 KickIce
KickIce's picture

I could see a grocery demanding gold for food, but nothing but fiat for the blowhards in DC.

Exactly what happened in the Weimar Republic, I guess according to Ben they didn't experience inflation either.

Fri, 03/04/2011 - 00:31 | 1017574 Misean
Misean's picture

Ben has models proving that it was the Chinese peg's fault.

Fri, 03/04/2011 - 00:42 | 1017598 KickIce
KickIce's picture

All economic scenarios in Ben’s decision making tree end at “Print More Money”.

 

Fri, 03/04/2011 - 00:49 | 1017604 randocalrissian
randocalrissian's picture

Including when he is going to take a dump and is out of the white stuff.

Fri, 03/04/2011 - 00:50 | 1017607 Misean
Misean's picture

Silly rabbit, decisions don't grow on trees, money does.

Fri, 03/04/2011 - 00:33 | 1017578 gwar5
gwar5's picture

Great idea. Other states are doing it too.

No one would pay taxes in gold, but it means the state recognizes it as currency, which is key. This also means that Federal attempts to confiscate or persecute PMs users will be met with stiff resistance and will be politically prohibitive.

An amendment is also being sought to the Utah law that would eliminate the sales and capital gains taxes on the PM exchanges. Good luck Utah.

The Fed is being put on notice we don't need no stinking Fed!

Fri, 03/04/2011 - 00:41 | 1017595 lolmaster
lolmaster's picture

pay taxes in gold? in your dreams utah ... 

Fri, 03/04/2011 - 00:51 | 1017609 randocalrissian
randocalrissian's picture

I think the Utah capitol is paying Mr. T to record some custom "we'll buy your gold" commercials as we speak.

Fri, 03/04/2011 - 00:57 | 1017624 KickIce
KickIce's picture

I pity the fool that doesn't own gold.

Fri, 03/04/2011 - 00:52 | 1017613 Atomizer
Atomizer's picture

Folks, our US government has zero fiduciary responsibilities. A budget is a joking matter. When social circles are working to bankrupt a currency, you can only look at present history  i.e. EU.

As stated previously, the IMF wants our country to become bankrupt in the worst way. Media is selling you down the river; the bait, line and sinker is sold as stability & reform.

What happened on December, 23 1913

http://codes.lp.findlaw.com/uscode/12/3/II/248/notes

IMF Phase II is work in progress.

Fri, 03/04/2011 - 00:59 | 1017619 palmereldritch
palmereldritch's picture

Good news for a change. The US needs more state banks like the Bank of North Dakota and backed by PMs as well to buttress States rights and regional economic independence.

CogDiss should launch another silver seeds initiative to prime the pump for Ag demand/exchange out there where private business to business or small business to consumer commerce exchanges could provide a 15% discount on goods and services for transactions paid for with 20% physical silver at the day's rate.  Given the suppressed true value of the PM this is a huge gain for the vendor who can bank the delayed potential.

This would vastly increase the demand for JPM silver bullets as well as educate a growing number on the importance of amassing real physical wealth so that the savers themselves can be the stores and shareholders of the local economic wealth base immune from the debasement of viral vulture ponzi controllers.

As the computer world has taught us the greatest protection from viruses and most efficient response to monopolistic cartels is the open source operating system. 

Banking should be no different.

Open source PM backed regional/local/individual shareholders in a banking system of commercial exchange based on a corporate charter that demands community benefit could be the internet of economic freedom.

Paging Catherine Austin Fitts!

V

Fri, 03/04/2011 - 03:25 | 1017795 CustomersMan
CustomersMan's picture

 

 

       Lets see,...we can either agree to pay $14 Trillion, that we didn't run-up in debts, including all the behind the scenes bank debt of another $14 Trillion, plus guarantee the gambling derivative exposure of another XXX Trillion,...

 

 

Or we can repudiate the FED RESERVE NOTES and start anew, And pay what obligations seem the most responsible, and deserving of honoring.

 

Guess which one the people take? Gold,Silver,Platinum,etc., a new form of currency, or the 10,000 pound anchor around their feet, that will last for generations?

Fri, 03/04/2011 - 03:41 | 1017803 CustomersMan
CustomersMan's picture

 

 

    .....And remember George W. Bush was not elected, he was appointed,....so everything since then should and can be repudiated. Its on the Supreme Court Watch that he was given title. Everything since then should be repudiated since it was un-constitutional.

 

         We do not owe it, period. They took away our rights, when they stopped the vote count in Florida.

 

         NOW YOU FUCKING DEAL WITH THE COMPLICATIONS OF THAT DECISION, YOU MADE IT .

 

         The clock must be turned back to before George W. Bush,  and all laws and Presidential Executative Orders Recinded ASAP, Patriot Act, Homeland Security's Creation, all of it.

 

         No Questions Asked. We will not accept anything less. Impeachment of all involved, including the Bush, Reagan, Supreme Court that put him in.

 

          Otherwise, follow the Greek example, "we won't pay".

Fri, 03/04/2011 - 01:23 | 1017658 pokrd
pokrd's picture

If you can pay taxes using silver or gold, how would they adjust for the fluctuation of silver to gold? Looks like a arbitriage opportunity if its implemented as silver is at record high against gold right now.

http://theintrinsicvalue.com/research/silver-update

 

Fri, 03/04/2011 - 03:14 | 1017787 CustomersMan
CustomersMan's picture

 

    I believe that the long-term historical relationship between gold and silver is about 16:1 , so if you go by that gold should be trading at about $560.00 .

 

    So, what say yee?

 

 

Fri, 03/04/2011 - 05:16 | 1017853 slewie the pi-rat
slewie the pi-rat's picture

on a long enuf timeline...

...only a very few of one's thoughts/ideas/values/deeds will matter.

 

the real ones..., i say to yeee, the ones which were REAL.  4U.

Fri, 03/04/2011 - 01:26 | 1017663 jmc8888
jmc8888's picture

What would LDS do? Tithe in fiat or gold?

Fri, 03/04/2011 - 01:36 | 1017669 AldoHux_IV
AldoHux_IV's picture

Getting on the gold system alone won't save us from the tyranny of centrally planned economic massacre upon the masses or would it provide a better system without any funny business unless you get rid of the people that are behind the levers.  When I look around at the policymakers, members of congress, and the current administration I see a whole lot of crap that the gold system alone can't solve.

As much as I would love to get rid of the federal reserve note ASAP, we can not forget the monster will still exist with its many heads if we stop just there.

By the way, I hope California secedes from the US and begin to issue 'C-Notes'.

Fri, 03/04/2011 - 01:39 | 1017680 infiniti
infiniti's picture

Purchasing gold implies a huge spread to spot. If you surrender your physical possessions to the state, then you really need help with math (and probably a few other things).

Fri, 03/04/2011 - 01:55 | 1017698 Dr. Porkchop
Dr. Porkchop's picture

I think that eventually, paper gold will be found out to be the fractional reserve fraud that it is, physical will detach from paper prices and trade freely as a wealth asset, not attached to any currency. Eventually the price will be discovered on the physical market, and it will be much higher than the artificial price it now has. Anyone that traded gold in to pay taxes against the worthless US dollar will feel extremely foolish.

Fri, 03/04/2011 - 01:59 | 1017702 Threeggg
Threeggg's picture

I just don't wan't to hear anybody cry when there is a pantie raid on the comex in the morning.

ok ?

BTFD

Fri, 03/04/2011 - 02:04 | 1017707 Paul Bogdanich
Paul Bogdanich's picture

Freaking lunatic Mormons always looking for the end of the World.  Which is why they fashion themselves as "latter day" saints.  Having suffered the great misfortune of living amongst them for an extended period of time I concluded that their lack of saintly behavior was only exceeded by their display of intelligence and restraint.  It's illegal for the states to coin money.  Something about a civil war or something like that.  Just a bunch of slathering lunatics with really odd names.  My favorite example was a Mo by the name of, are you ready for this, Athel R. Smelley.  I kid you not.  Last time I looked the old bird was still listed in the phone book as A. R. Smelley.  That's the kind of people they are.  Knowing their last name was Smelley the kids parents worked on the other names to mark the kid as from as low a rent situation as has ever existed.  I also knew a woman who was born and raised there and when talking of her father she would say, "I was 8 years old before I realized that 'God Damn Low CLass Mormon' was more than one word."  So I see nothing has changed.           

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