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A Visual Reminder Of US Social Stratification
While many watch the revolutions starting virtually on a daily basis in the "developing world", few are concerned that these have any chance of occurring in the United States: "our society is far more cohesive and far less stratified" the rebuttal logic goes. Is it? Over the past two years, the one social class that has received the most voluminous amount of opprobrium is the ubiquitously derogatory "bankster" which represents far more a wealth and income qualification, that a job description. Americans it appears are becoming increasingly sensitive to the stratification within our own society, even if on a subliminal level. And while we have repeatedly shown before in visual terms just how polarized US society is, it worth reminding every few months or so, that the US is rapidly becoming a banana republic not only in its approach to legislative and judicial matters (not to mention regulatory), but toward the distribution of income and wealth. Not that there is anything wrong with a stratified society: after all, that is the purest hallmark of a capitalist society. However when one introduces the basest elements of socialism (and, ostensibly, communism and fascism according to some) in its midst, then things get far more transparent and subjective. Below we once again bring to our readers attention, in easily digestible format, the dramatic schisms that continue to tear through the fabric of US society. And if there is anything that the revolutions in the Maghreb should have taught us by now is that extreme social polarization can only last for so long before a violent snapback restores equilibrium, usually through bloodshed and death.
Graphics courtesy of Mother Jones'
How Rich are the Superrich
A huge share of the nation's economic growth over the past 30 years has gone to the top one-hundredth of one percent, who now make an average of $27 million per household. The average income for the bottom 90 percent of us? $31,244.
Note: The 2007 data (the most current) doesn't reflect the impact of the housing market crash. In 2007, the bottom 60% of Americans had 65% of their net worth tied up in their homes. The top 1%, in contrast, had just 10%. The housing crisis has no doubt further swelled the share of total net worth held by the superrich.
Winners take it all
The superrich have grabbed the bulk of the past three decades' gains.
Out of Balance
A Harvard business prof and a behavioral economist recently asked more than 5,000 Americans how they thought wealth is distributed in the United States. Most thought that it’s more balanced than it actually is. Asked to choose their ideal distribution of wealth, 92% picked one that was even more equitable.
Who's Winning
For a healthy few, it's getting better all the time.
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Yes - people seem to miss the point that in the short terms, jobs are elimintated, but in the long term WEATLH is CREATED.
Exactly. In reality there are enough resources that we don't need 40hr work weeks anymore.
The German system of work-sharing during downturns has them bouncing back more convincingly than an other economy already.
2/3rds of a job and continuity of talent / training / community has a value.
I know quite a few people that need them.
Is it just me, or is the aggregate Corporate tax contribution a little low in CorpNation?
I mean, if they're people and all, why don't they pay as much as . . . people?
WTF?
+++
... er ... Bob. News Flash! Corporations pay "taxes" but, y'know what? they pass those taxes on to their purchasers, who pass ... you get the list until... they pass the taxes on to the consumers.
So the solution is, what? a "value added tax"? Not so fast there big fella'
U.S. corporations pay among highest (maybe highest) taxes in the world. So they do what any rational being does--take steps to avoid the pain. Now that might screw the workers, screw the U/E 6 number, but they have optimized their operation in the mid term.
So VAT can only work in conjunction with reduction in e.g. income, unearned income, and other cash-associated taxes. But, well, the IRS can't beat its Heroin jones. So they will wish and want both.
"The job-killing let's add a value added tax to this over-taxed structure bill of 2013"
Conclusion: only people in the dreaded private sector pay 'taxes'. If in gov't 'jobs' taxes are a managed reduction in salary from the state entity (at all levels).
- Ned
The marginal tax rate for corporations is an empty measure, as we all well know. It's deductions, credits and exclusions that make the tax bill. Harping about the nominal rate is pure bullshit.
Pumping up their real tax share might have the effect of squeezing profits, leaving the pirates who run the organizations less to sack. It could lead to executive pay reform . . . and them paying something closer to their fair share.
They might take their money elsewhere? Well, if they cost more than they're worth, that sounds like a real bargain to me. They offshore most of their income, the majority do little employment here, etc . Let them leave if they insist. Does that include the banks? Is it really worth it for us to support transnational corporations? Even if they hadn't bought our government out from under us.
Maybe it would support the development of real competition in the domestic market . . . between domestic companies employing domestic workers. Who knows--that might even come to mean something to the American consumer. It sure sounds like raising the real tax share of business would sort out who is with America . . . and who ain't.
Put that way, it even sounds like an antidote to globalization, rather than a casualty of it.
They have the highest tax rates, but their effective tax rates are a joke compared to J6P.
Shed your tears more carefully.
In the 1950s corporations paid a lot more taxes, as did the wealthy.. Stuff was more expensive but more people had decent jobs and could afford to buy the goods. Stuff was even made in the USA, by union employees. Not quite buying this crap about the taxes. Boeing I recall, back in the 1990s paid no taxes at all one year.
I like how those CorPeople are paying their fair share.
If you think they're getting a free ride then you ought to own stocks.
?
Bad Day?
DOW -178
NAS -77
S&P.....
Well, not even Warren Buffet trusts the government with his billionaire bucks give away.
For all his talk, his $$ are in a foundation instead of just cutting the check to the government to help the poor people.
The man has called out the preferential taxation of hedge managers and cap gains repeatedly.
Personally I think the ever-growing public sector is a bigger threat (and tragedy). Show me a think-it-is/wish-it-were graph of that one.
I'd happily let Blankfein "earn" another $500mm if I could have my taxes cut in half. If you have any kind of self-discipline and motivation, the government is still the biggest impediment standing between you and building real wealth (in the USA).
It is becoming more evident to me that envy is a much stronger driver of human behavior than greed. So even though I have trouble getting worked up about the kind of material presented in this post I agree that it represents a tremendous amount of potential energy.
Plus, don't forget that if you keep a steady stream of unskilled, dirt poor immigrants flowing into the country, any uptick in income or wealth on the part of anyone else will widen the gap since one end of the scale will always be pegged close to zero.
What you described has been happening in Europe for years, When central Europeans were prosperous, they never wanted to work on mines or do menial jobs. They imported cheaper unskilled labor from Turkey, southern Italy, northern Greece and Portugal.
As these classes started to prosper, their families also did not want to do the menial jobs and the cycle is going on and on.
Cheap labor will always be sought.
Who has been picking up you dishes at the restaurant or doing your gardening lately?
Yeah, and how's that working out?
That tax rate chart really misrepresents the true taxes paid in the US. What about both sides of SS and Medicare, state, local, property, and sales tax not to mention that all of those nuisance taxes that they keep adding on like at the DMV. I sat down one day and added up how much I paid in taxes in it was a total of about 65% for the previous year. I bet if we looked at the true tax rates that included everything, we pay more than we ever did. And I am rich by Obama standards, which is just upper middle class in the Silicon Valley. That only means that my wife and I work our asses off, watch what we spend, and haven't to date made many money mistakes. Thats not rich.
I am only spouting off because taxing the rich does not solve the current big problem, massive debt. I agree the rich should pay more, including me, assuming it actually starts solving our nations problems and not just some token used by our politicians to win another election.
Frankly, at this point it does not matter because the best alternative is rebooting the system after the crash. There is no way out of where we are going. I just hope at some point that the amount of energy that is being pointed out what is wrong (Which I think is important), moves to figuring out how we should prevent it from happening again after the crash. Frankly, I am looking forward to the new beginning and the sooner the better.
And that's why employees are suckers - get an idea,scrape together some capital and start your own biz
the amount of energy that is being pointed out what is wrong...should prevent it from happening again...
Please, the solution was / has been provided by those that have gone before. If the government would exercise the constitutional authority the sovereign citizenry temporarily vested in them to establish proper weights and measures for the circulating of PM coinage and issue treasury notes redeemable in said currency on demand and without interest we could rid our borders of the plague of the private enterprise federal reserve bank notes, their officials and their handlers.
Until that happens, like Banzai says BT D.
By many standards in the world, you are probably rich, as am I. The average American standard of living is dropping fast and will continue to drop. As far as the taxes, yes we are taxed to death when you add in everything. And they are mostly regressive taxes for the most part, that fall more heavily on the poor and middle class than the wealthy.
Compared to most of the world 99% of Americans are "rich".
Bah! I'm rich, RICH I tell ya. Pass the grey poop on.
MAKE YOUR VOTES:http://trendybull777.blog.com/2011/02/21/hello-world/
for FED exiostence,forward to friends
For the last 30 years, the economic growth has gone to the top one-hundredth of one percent, who now make an average of 27 million per household, the average income for the bottom 90% of us? $31,244.
The 80/20 rule, I conclude, resolves that the path of least resistance transfers the most amount of resources into the management of relatively few.
What I am about to write, they will not like.
Until now, the possibility of more people being able to have more resources seemed impossible. Yet, there is the possibility the world's resources at large could be transferred to more of the 90% of us.
My observations brought me down a road....
...where it was citizens throughout the nation and perhaps even the globe, which are being unknowingly exploited by plutocrats at the expense of humankind's freedom and domestic currency inflation.
Exploitations that I find go beyond the normal course of business. Taking candy from a baby is unacceptable....
READ MORE HERE http://dopebook.blogspot.com/2011/02/great-american-mortgage-ponzi-schem...
...
Originating borrowers who stand as the remaining identifiable owners are being taken advantage of by lenders. Lenders are willing to do anything to prevent the revelation of their note's lack of securitization and other activities to maintain the facade to the American borrower that they hold a mortgage note secured by real property when it is reasonably probable that most mortgage notes ongoing within the real estate marketplace are unsecured.
http://dopebook.blogspot.com/2011/02/great-american-mortgage-ponzi-schem...
1.Define , or just think of Capitalism any way you want.
2.Now consider that, recently, it has become legal for any company to deliberately lie, in its certified public accounting statements, under the cover of nameless, secret, unregulated "national security" and other made-up excuses...which excuses themselves are secret.
Thus Capitalism no longer exists in USA...if it ever did outside the murky hidden intentions of the gamemakers, aka TPTB.
What really pisses people off isn't the money, it's the privilege and the one law for me, another for thee nonsense. That the latter keeps helping people get screwed out of the former is just a bonus.
The guy with a billion dollars doesn't piss me off - it's the guy (or entity) with loads of money who gets the government to seize land for them, or gets a special waiver from an onerous new law, or who maims someone in a hit and run and gets their charges reduced so they don't lose their job or position.
I have little or no real protection under the law, while they get a blank check to do all sorts of shit. Someone, tell me again why I even pay lip service to these laws?
Because you might get caught and with the penalty the potential reward does not justify the risk?
Other than that, it's clear that morality has become something between only you and your maker.
What really pisses people off isn't the money, it's the privilege
How does one say "Indeed" in Arabic?
Payroll tax (FICA) rates remained constant (recent cut notwithstanding), in terms of proportion of employee pay, no? And there is a marked inverse change in proportion of CorPeople tax. SSI is threatened, but CorPeople get more rights.
Huh..
You can thank Reagan for that shenanigan. Note the inflection point in the income distribution graph during his tenure.
During the halcyon days of America's post-war power, it was common to describe American society as being different from all others in the world because it was shaped like a diamond, with a huge bulging middle class, while all other nations were shaped like a pyramid, with a tiny elite at the summit. As kids in school we were told that this was the secret to the American success story. That it went along with the principles set forth by the American Revolution and the founding fathers. That it represented the triumph of democracy and freedom over static pyramidal societies. And most importantly that it signaled that America was a meritocracy where most people really had a chance to "make it".
Latest figures show that during the crisis many millions of people have slid from the $50K-$150K income bracket to the below $50K bracket. This is an alarming trend. It seems America is becoming more sclerotic every day. It will very soon become more likely for an American to inherit a million dollars than to earn that net worth before retirement.
What is wealth? There has been no small amount of talk lately about the widening wealth gap. One look at Egypt and you can see it in spades. Hosni and his family are reportedly “worth” $70B, more than the entire country on paper no doubt. Take the King of Saudi Arabia for example. All those millions of barrels of oil shipped out every day and what has he to show for it, a harem, a couple 747s, and probably an enlarged prostate, big deal. Even the “great” billionaires of the USA, what do they have? A pile of stocks and bonds, some real estate deeds, some gold, and silver, then they die and all that shit goes to someone else. I wouldn't trade places with any of them, they're all sick in the head.
I don't know Buzz...I think that harem thing sounds like it might be pretty cool.
Wealth is the relative comfort level available to you between birth and death.
I wrote this the other day on another thread. If there was ever a major crisis our govt is not ready for it.
What happened in Tunisia,Libya,and Egypt made me wonder what would ahppen over here in the States during a major crisis(Economic collapse,social unrest etc). In any shtf scenario cops will be overwhelmed rather quickly. There will be mass desertion in the ranks in LEO. There are gangs who are more armed then the police. Martial law is also impossible to have in the states. Even if the military manages to acquire all 1.5 million reserves and utilize 1 million of it's total 1.5 million personnel in the Navy, Army, Marines, Air Force and Coast Guard, it would struggle to control 308-310 million citizens in a land mass of 9,161,966 sq km. American law enforcement numbers are not as strong as some of you think. According to the BLS (bureau of Labor Statistics), there were only 883,600 law enforcement personnel in 2008. And that was before the financial collapse and subsequent layoffs in local departments across the nation. The number included detectives, managers, police and sheriff's patrol officers.
So when you add the 2,500,000 soldiers and the 883,000 law enforcement, you have a force of 3.3 million agents. This is less than one percent of America's highly-armed population. Most of these agents will be working logistics and support for handling prisoners, transportation, intelligence and supply. But this isn't even the biggest problem.
The police are used to dealing with people who are afraid of them and have something to lose. In a collapse scenario, the rioters will lack both characteristics. And the military will be poorly suited to police a populace that is desperation for resources. If the soldiers became violent against the population, they could divide the armed forces and spark a civil war. It would be very difficult for the U.S. military to successfully implement martial law throughout the entire country at any given time. This would mean that they would have to secure hundred of thousands of neighborhoods, while securing all major airports, power stations, communication towers, water facilities, nuclear power plants, military bases, food distribution center, grocery stores, government official buildings and highways while keeping everyone in their homes after 6pm.
Bringing in foreign troops would problematic, because if the U.S. is in a panic, wouldn't the other countries that are so heavily tied to America also have their own problems. Plus, we know how well foreign occupations went in Afghanistan, Vietnam and Iraq. So if some shit went down like what happened in Libya the nation would fragment into factions. It would Yugoslavia redux.
In my state, we are yearning for the great break-up of the US. Middle America has nothing in common with the left coast, or the northeastern states.
Cool. Can we have our out-sized tax contributions back?
Just once I want someone to call Texas' bluff when they blather on about secession.
"Martial law is also impossible to have in the states."
Good luck with that.
I think I hear your mommy calling.
It is impossible. From a logistical stand point it is a nightmare. There is also not enough manpower to enforce the power of the feds. Hell if the federal governement could not control the situation in New Orleans during katrina,they will are far fucked up job in any martial law scenario. You think states like Montana,Texas,Idaho,Arizona,Nevada,Colrado and many more would put up with the feds bullshit any longer? The nation is far too large to have martial law. I stated the logistical and manpower problems that would occur in this scenario.
Agree: Governors control the state's national guard. It is nearly impossible to declare martial law.
Then why & how have National Guard ('the militia') units deployed to Iraq & Afghanistan? Just askin'.
I don't think Montana has too much to worry about...
It is official.
Rahm Emmanuel elected mayor.
PigMen and their government mafia cronies always win.
shame to waste a good payoff of a judge I guess.
Man, Tunisia, Libya, Egypt, the US they are all the same.
Union fingerprints anyone? Keep supporting the unions.
Why would anyone tolerate the taxes and coruption that infest that city??
Every trade show I ever went to there has been relocated because of the union ripoff deals at McCormick Place. They last taxpayer there should turn off the light soon.
Good news for the Israelis. They can diaspora their asses to Chicago when the the Islamic world goes all Biblical on them.
Knowing them, they'll start building kibbutzes just outside Dearborn, MI.
Chi-town gets what it deserves....
A Oleg Atbashian Speech to the Proles of PA on February 4, 2011
The threshold should be at least $750k, not $250k...Raise taxes on those above that level especially to those who produce nothing (wall street)
Dp
I nominate assfire for president.
I do not want to make what everyone else makes. If I work 2 times as hard and use twice the brainpower as the average LED TV dope then I expect, no I demand, to be compensated.
Creeping socialism is what got us into this mess in the first place. Fuckin greasy haired, toilet bowl smelling bureaucrats stuck their fuckin noses into shit they didn't need to and fucked up the system. Some fuckin govt dimwit was jealous of the private sector and fucked us over. i.e. Smoot Hawley and convinced cigar shover to change the regs. Fuckin duh>
Absolutely, many people make more than me, they earned it, they inherited it, they squandered it, etc.
The socialist option is death. I'll believet half the shit shit around here but socialism? Look at Obama's and hillary's inability to save Libyans.
Fuckin idiots - nuke em. You military yaks who spent all my tax money on cruise missiles say you killa fuckin fly with a cruise - show me by takin out Ghadaffi while he's taking a piss.
OK I'm hyperventilating now.
When you catch your breath, pull your head out.
Blah blah blah....get over yourself. If you're so 'hardworking' and in possession of 'awesome brainpower' then you already make 6x what the middle class does anyway. If not, you're just whistling Dixie and in need of a reality check.
I call BS on at least one of the raw stats they're using. I have my own small business I've been in the top 1% for a while, and immediately recognized there was no way the income level is as high as they're showing -- their chart shows income at nearly $2M for the top 1%, and it's nowhere near that.
IRS stats: http://www.irs.gov/taxstats/article/0,,id=102886,00.html
I'll save the suspense, the '08 cutoff was $380K. Top 10% was $113K. FYI my real income tax rate is about 36% (Fed+State), adding in the other major taxes (sales tax, car license, etc) gets my rate to about 45%; I'm sure the other nickel and dime taxes (gas tax, cell phone taxes, etc.) add at least another couple points.
The inequality part has definitely risen, and I suspect based on my own research that the one thing it all has in common is F.I.R.E. income, and ultimately skimming a cut (often over and over) from the lower classes.
The problem won't be solved taxing the rich. As my accountant often points out, tax rates for the entire friggin' country fit on a single page of tax code. It's the definition of income that fills the volumes. The problem will be solved by a limited government that actually enforces the law and uses its regulatory authority in a just manner.
Which ultimately means the problem gets solved when the whole system implodes on itself, because they didn't fix it early when it was managable, and before pure graft and corruption took over the affairs of the state.
I feel your pain, as a manufacturing business owner. You had better stay under 50 employees. After the passage of ObamaCare, I cut the labor intensive products and sent them to be manufactured in Ningbo and Taiwan. I increased the remaining employees wages by 10% (of which they will not see a dime because the gov. is taxing their healthcare benefits now) and with our new unemployment contribution multiplier (from the 22 cut employees) we are on course to make about the same profit this year..
Look at the net affect of just this one law, not to mention the countless others that come from the city inspectors who seem to attack us continually with change to their fire codes etc... We have moved from city limits twice only to eventually to be annexed (so they can suck more taxes).. I swear someday I will send all the work overseas.
Yeah I think this tyler confuses wealth and income charts.
So when you talk about poor people, and claim they pay 'no taxes', do you forget to count the ones you've added to your total (sales, license fees, cell, gas, etc)?
What's your effective rate paid on that 45% of theory?
I earn in the top 3% and my effective last year was 18%...without a mort deduction.
If corporations and investors paid more realistic rates, everyone who actually works for a living could catch a break, but I'll keep breathing in the meantime.
In my case, the rates I listed is actually is paid, so it's the effective rate. I just pulled the taxes paid out of my books and divided by income. And that's with mortgage deduction and every other deduction taken out (since it's actual taxes paid. Trust me, it's no friggin' theory, I write a check to the Feds for $40K every quarter, plus another check to the state for a varying amount (always at least 5K, sometimes as high as 30k) the accountant will eventually tell my my real earnings, but they're consistently 500K +/- 75K or so.)
I'd love to know how you pull off effective 18% rate in the top 3%. Mostly dividend income?
And I never said anything about poor people not paying taxes. They get reamed on sales and license taxes, particularly as a percent of income.
A bias towards income from cap gains and the patience to make them the long-term variety, plus a penchant for re-investing the income in my business (software contractor) as cap-ex that I write off. My effective is higher if I include FICA and self-employment penalties, but I didn't want to digress into apple-orange comparisons too quickly.
Apologies for lumping you in with the "40% of people don't pay any taxes" crowd that usually haunts the heritage foundation et al.
Oh, I don't know if the comparison follows entirely.
In magreb, obseity is not a big threat to the very literally poor that team in those countries. I mean, 40% on $2 or less a day, and so close to the edge of going hungry in good times.
In the US, even now in this deep recession, our poor are objectively pretty wealthy on an absolute scale, in comparison with Americans in any other time in history, and in comparison with most people on the planet today.
Also, 80+% of our population doesn't adhere to a psychotic totalitarian death cult whose prophet is a pedophile, thief, murderer, liar, and, well that's a good start. We dont carve our daughters clits out either, nor assault women just because they go uncovered.
You can't redistribute it to the idiots or their numbers will grow exponentially, making the unskilled population worse.
Bare miniumun entitlements to non-contributors is the kindest Darwinism we can allow.
You're kind to a fault. Be careful, people just take advantage of guys like you.
Well, I do like: If on welfare you get your tubes tied after delivering your second child. But, I find that people had a problem with that... After some harder times we will arrive at something like that. Prisons and the self cleaning ovens that are the inner city neighborhoods can't get rid of them quick enough before they multiply like crazy.
I know your comment was tongue and cheek, but you are right on- I won't be taken advantage of; appreciate the concern. lmao
Here goes the "Crusades" again.
And don't get me wrong. I don't agree with the psychotic death cult, or fatwas of any kind.
The trajectory is more important than the absolute position.
You're a bit of a conundrum, Tylers.
Yeah he is either schizophrenic or there are at least two tylers.
Schizophrenic . . . got a DSM-IV?
Tyler has consistently documented his position that societies with gross income disparities are unstable societies.
Would someone explain why anyone should pay the corrupt "governments" any taxes ever, for anything?
The treasury can write a check to anyone for any amount and the (choke - spit - cough) "federal" reserve will simply shuffle an imaginary amount of "money" to the treasury account. It will then conjure, out of thin air - whatever "money" is required to close the transaction. No taxes required. Ever.
All BS + smoke & mirrors.
yes, i agree.
and as an aside i will add, as obama has pointed out,
these teachers and union fire fighting workers are our
neighbors so, like on t.v., we should probably turn out
for their lynching or other suitable termination, after
all they did not stop the wave of fraud that has swept
the world economy into the shit show mankind currently
portrays . let the bankers and media moguls finance the
event and let us buy the pop corn
And how many Americans will line up and vote for politicians who insist the bailouts were essential, despite the fact they have only benefitted the rats most deserving of loss?
If both dems and repubs voted for the bailout then who do you vote for?
Someone who didn't. Or don't vote at all. But at least don't validate the pricks who did vote for it.
The people who understand what was wrong with the bailout, in FACT are the ones that you vote for......but not just that.....because sometimes people vote things for different reasons.
Not those that got lucky because they hate spending. (because that's not the reason why you should vote against it, it's a completely DIFFERENT reason)
Seriously the #1 metric of who to vote for is what is their position on Glass-Steagall and how forcefully will they push for it if elected?
You want someone who has Glass-Steagall as the #1 issue.
You want someone who will fight tooth and nail for it (unlike.....see Kucinich backing the fuck down on what he knew to be true about the Obama's fascist deathpanel care that gives hundreds of billions to for-profit scumbags who steal the money out of the care of our sick). You want people with more backbone than that.
You want someone who will not back down their vote at the last minute (again like all the people that knew what they are voting for is bullshit, but they don't want to be 'standing in the way', or 'be the one who blocks things'.)
In the end you want a candidate who votes for the truth that they see (and that's real). Even if he's the lone dissenting vote, he is that lone vote proudly.
The best candidates out there are the 6 LaRouche candidates for the 2012 election. I'm sure there are other *somewhat* good ones out there, but the LaRouche candidates understand the answer isn't Keynesian and the answer isn't Austrian. Most people, still have no idea that Barack Obama and Ron Paul are under the same banner, called monetarism. (but they're so different???? yes, except where they link together....their idiocy about monetarism...most specifically that anything in the system must be honored over YOU, YOUR job, YOUR health, YOUR business, YOUR welfare...in each case, you're both pawns to them)
Don't vote for a monetarist, if you do, you're slitting your own throat.
Lots of people want to end the fed, AND don't believe in monetarism.
Why vote for someone who just wants to end the fed AND keep the monetarism? Why does Ron Paul want to pay for fraudulent debt and is willing to force austerity for it to happen? That's not change. That's more Barack Obama bullshit change, just from the other side.
I say fuck all monetarists. Barack Obama, Ron Paul, and every monetarist inbetween. No monetarist is living in reality. That's the truth. Because monetarism itself it about widely believed bullshit is somehow real because we believe it to be true. That's not reality, that's an agreed upon lie. If everyone believes dogshit is steak, if you bite into it, it doesn't change the fact that you just put dogshit in your mouth. But in imperialism, we still pretend the taste of shit, IS steak, because you want to pawn of the rest of it, to some bigger idiot or three.
I reject that inherent lie that resides in Barack Obama, Ron Paul, and any other monetarist. (and monetarism is FORBIDDEN in the constitution....we are to be a CREDIT system....neither Barack or Ron are patriots because they believe in something that our constitution was created to protect us from).
Everyone was so scared of socialism and communism, nobody noticed that MONETARISM took us over.
My suggestion is to forget what you learned from (GUESS WHO??? Main Stream Media...but back when you trusted them more) about LaRouche, who has ALWAYS pegged the monetarist scum for what they are, and always poked holes in their bullshit. (so now that you know the MSM is full of shit, why wouldn't you take a gander at the guy who saw people [and put it in print] like Bernanke as fuckups since Bernanke himself was in grade school, and was promptly blackballed?) Seriously. If he's been pissing off those that you hate for longer than half of us have been alive, then don't you think he may have SOMETHING to offer to the debate?
Why listen to some dumbass who didn't see the last one coming, when you could learn some of the real basics from the person that has gotten every downturn in the economy right for the past 50+ years. (and have solutions for them)
I respect people that tell it like it is. I'm sure that is part of why many of us love Zero Hedge. This is also what I love about LaRouche.
larouchepac.com
I suggest reading the updates page on a daily basis. Plenty of other important background videos about the situation is there too.
Just remember he proposed the HBPA of 2007 to deal with the mortgage clusterfuck. (again what year is on it? 2007!). He already had legislation making the rounds in congress BEFORE the crash hit. Bernanke he is not.
He was the one saying the whole MERS process was fraudulent before most who late got one, had even heard of the word subprime. Among many other insights.
Our current system isn't American, it's British. (and by extension Venitian, Roman, etc). The monetary system has been around a long time, and IT and how it is setup determines more of whether any of us are successful, then our own actions. Get this out of the way, and very little holds us back. It's not that someone can't control their own destiny, it's just that you have a lot less control than you really think, due to monetarism, and monetarism only. Take monetarism away, and you empower the human race to succeed.
You don't want anybody that believes in magical faeries. If they say 'things will just correct themselves', or 'leaving things alone is best', then you have a dumbass on your hands.
Humans have brains and we use them to better ourselves, to think ourselves out of a situation, a problem. We've done it throughout our history, despite all the bullshit. So you better put someone in gov't who understands how to USE gov't. You want someone who believes that the human mind can conceive of a plan, and use gov't to make these legitimate plans, real.
No more self-limiting behavior because of sophistry. Which is all what Walker and Christie are. They are using sophistry to convince idiots that something completely unnecessary is needed, based on the pressures on their MONETARY system, not AMERICAN, nor anything resembling reality. Obama does it too. Even Barney Frank tried to say, Glass-Steagall was unconstitutional...ha. That's all bullshit. Of course the correct standard of what is actually something inside of the banking system and whether or not it is legal, especially since we've used it or like measures time after time in our history, is constitutional. But you see, Barney was told that Glass-Steagall was unconstitutional by his monetarist masters, so that means it must be true.
So who to vote for? LaRouche candidates, or anyone that thinks similarly on these basic issues. But actually know WHY. Then make sure your local candidates (whatever side) meets these standards.
We will never fix this as long as monetarists control the show. The monetary system is all about having a fake system that is exploitable. It'll happen under Keynesian economics, as well as Austrian or any form of monetarism. The system by it's nature allows for the bullcrap. So if you want the bullcrap out, you'll never get it out, as long as there is monetarism.
We need Glass-Steagall, and since the absence of this law is presenting a clear and present danger to the United States, and our president doesn't acknowledge it, he is unfit for duty, and should be removed under the constitution. If I'm willing to impeach the guy I voted for, surely you can look around at your guys and make sure they aren't pushing equally insane (but from the other side) monetarist bullshit.
Glass-Steagall can set us free. Nothing else really matters. They can be for having sex with plants for all I care, as long as the thing that really matters, Glass-Steagall is passed. Abortion doesn't matter. Climate change doesn't matter. Free trade doesn't matter. None of these matter.
Only Glass-Steagall
If the candidate doesn't pass this SIMPLE test, then they have failed....and should not get your support. Doesn't matter what side you are on, Glass-Steagall should be the #1 issue for BOTH sides. The fact it isn't, shows you JUST HOW captured the sides are. Left/Center/Right/Tea/Wall Street/Non-partisan are ALL completely worthless now.
Here's just a small sampling from LaRouche over the past ~24 hours.
http://www.larouchepac.com/node/17561
http://www.larouchepac.com/node/17554
http://www.larouchepac.com/node/17564
This one is really good
http://www.larouchepac.com/node/17567
http://www.larouchepac.com/node/17559
http://www.larouchepac.com/node/17562
That last one is good too, talks about how Abe Lincoln did what the congressional democrats in Wisconsin just did.
Look, make up your OWN mind. But make sure you base your decision on what's REAL, and not some sophistry that sounds good.
What is real? Walker and Christie, have no fucking idea. They live in la-la land.
There are quite a few people who took the easy way out. They got a worthless degree or two and somehow just expected to be handed the goodlife.
Asians have a higher than average income. They bust their ass as a first generation storekeeper and the second generation busts their ass in school to get real degrees, not these poli sci or communications or marketing degrees.
If you were lazy and nonproductive in school and if you dont have any initiative or real work ethic then dont expect much.
The backbone of america is that family with a combined income of 150,000 to 300,000. If you disincentivize people in that class then we can watch the whole thing fall apart. I am quite ready to quit producing as much and start consuming if they attempt to raise my taxes.
Work hard and make the right decisions when you are younger and you can join us if you want. If you are older and made some wrong decisions then you havent lost out yet. Colonel Sanders was in his sixties before he made it.
Class envy and blaming others is for the lazy and immoral.
Excellent quotes troll..
"I am quite ready to quit producing as much and start consuming if they attempt to raise my taxes."
You, me and every business owner I know are right there on the edge with you. Most of us were going to drain all capital before they extended the tax cuts.
"If you were lazy and nonproductive in school and if you dont have any initiative or real work ethic then dont expect much."
Seems like every engineer I went to school with (that can speak English) is doing well. It is those bachelor of arts people who will suffer the most because they think they are worth more than the common laborer.
This is interesting, but why is it a problem? Suppose that you evenly distributed the $27M/household from the top 0.01% evenly to each household. It would only come out to $2700/household. Yet that top 0.01% probably contributes a huge percentage of the venture funding and innovation that allows the bottom 90% to earn their $31K/household. I don't begrudge people like Steve Jobs even one penny of his net worth. And people like Buffet and Gates actually seem intent on giving away most of their money to charitible causes.
It is true that there are probably a lot of people who accumulated their wealth without actually doing anything useful. In an ideal world that wouldn't happen, but I don't know of any form of government which has been able to prevent that. Even in communist countries you had a ruling class who lived like kings and whose only real accomplishment was that they had been able to successfully liquidate their political opponents. Stalin held lavish parties with every delicacy while people were starving in Leningrad.
Or you could try socialism where the government confiscates "excess" earnings and wastes them on useless projects like wars, high-speed rail, bridges to nowhere and so forth. Personally I would prefer to leave the money in the hands of the people who accumulated it in the hope that they will invest it in something useful. (After all, even if they are only thieves, they must have a certain amount of cleverness.) Whereas in my opinion, giving money to the government is pretty much the same as flushing it down the toilet.
And also, even though I am not in the top 10%, I don't like the idea of a government telling me that I can never be wealthy, no matter what I do. After all who knows but that I or one of my children or grandchildren might one day have a bright idea and make a ton of money.
Personally I think that the main reason for all the unrest in the Arab world is the high proportion of young people in those countries. I remember how the world seemed so much simpler when I was 18. And of course, many of the governments that they are protesting against seem to be pretty bad. I am just not sure whether the governments which replace them will be any better.
Spare the BS - how much would Buffett lost if the bailouts didn't happen?10Billion?20billion?
Who knows? Who cares? He is giving the vast majority of his money away to charity.
Actually a lot of the bailouts have been repaid. (I think that AIG is the main exception). So the government loaned a bunch of money to some companies for a year or two, got paid back with interest, saved some jobs and perhaps allowed Buffet to contribute 10 or 20 billion to charity. None of that seems particularly upsetting. The only waste that I see is that Obama took the money that was repaid and spent it on useless infrastructure projects that create temporary employment, but little lasting benefit. Suppose that he had returned the money as a tax rebate. Then people could have used it to buy things that they actually need and probably the same number of jobs would have been created.
The marginal utility of that $2700 cannot be underestimated when the landlord is knocking.
The problem is the masses trusted their government.
That was their first mistake. Second mistake was they
trusted people to handle their money and investments
who clearly could care less about them. Third mistake
was not learning how and why they get screwed. The 4th
and final mistake made A if they still havent learned
being screwed and staying complacent or B if they did
learn not pull out money in paper investments and cash
and put that money into wealth. Luckily when this theft
occured i was too young to lose anything aside from the
bit i did through inflation. Yeah i got my share of debt to
pay down but i figure the small amount im taxed is the price
i pay for living in a country i can do anything i want behind
closed doors. As for my future accumulation of wealth its clear
enough thats easy to protect in the long term with physical
PM's. I feel bad for those who got screwed because they trusted
the wrong people however staying complacent does not afford any
sympathy from me now. I wish all the best of luck and hope it all
works out. Since it wont im happy i had my grandparents teach me
how to garden/can and that took the time to learn how money
and the system works. 20 minutes on this site a day gives you
the econ lessons you should have learned in school. I am very
grateful to ZH, TD, and posters in making me feel i am on the right
path. BTFS and hopefully one day BTFG
not until you have $100 million dollars, of your own... can you understand what being truly broke is all about... junk me until the dogs come home, but if you had $100 million dollars (I dont) you would better understand what the difference between the haves and have nots is really all about... $100m doesnt buy you a nice house nor a nice boat... then realize how many jurisdictions these people have both in and happily pay the property taxes on going forward... have a standing order for new cars, at 10 or 20 locations around the world... every year... the life styles that the top .01% maintain while people every where starve is insane. I am all for people keeping what they earn, but that is not the case for these people I can think of very few who are self made and worth multiples of Billions. mostly it is hand me down, skip a generation trust monies.
You need $100m to understand what broke really is... or to better see the excesses that the truly wealthy flaunt.
I'm convinced our culture has an unhealthy obsession with money. Please realize, there is more to life than getting envious over this or that person who happens to have more material possessions than you. At some point having ever more money becomes a burden, not a blessing. Do you think Bill Gates can walk around outside on a sunny day without being paranoid of being abducted or targeted?
"Who is wealthy? He who is able to enjoy what wealth he has."
Without people of means to invest in our industries and be philanthropists, our nation would be in a much less civilized condition. Once upon a time holding stocks was actually seen as patriotic and laudable, as money invested was necessary to produce real progress. Now with the HFT nonsense it has really devolved into a casino where Wall Street is the house.
++
It's not an obsession with money, cuz people are in debt up to their eyeballs. It's about having a bigger pile of gimracks and doodads around than anybody else.
You really think Bill Gates is afraid to leave his house?
Without bodyguards? Probably. You do remember windows 98, don't you?
Now... just salt these charts with oncoming hyperinflation.... and let's see how the charts look following this.
I'm very, very worried about what's coming. This awakening of the masses in the Middle East is a precursur to what we in the Western world will be looking at when bread costs $20 a loaf.
I remember studying years ago, economic history in BSchool thinking to myself how in many ways the world is so predictable...
At least now, my eyes are open...
double post... aarrrr
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9sIlCTDIZ9I
I agree with the notion that the underlying problem we have is within the monetary system of irredeemable currency. A regime built upon systematic inflation greatly favors those who are closest to the source of newly created money. They get to buy assets at cheaper prices before inflation percolates through the economy raising prices for the rest of us. Inflation is a hidden tax that slowly devours those last in line. Obviously, the bankers feed at the front of the line, followed closely by their breathren in the financial services, and wallstreet. Big government contractors also do quite well getting new money. Anyone who has been around DC lately will attest to the extreme growth and rising incomes they have had there. It seems deficit spending is quite enriching for the big DC government business elite. The tax code is written to reward those with the best and most well funded lobbyists. When you talk about real reforms to the tax code, the biggest fights you are going to get are from the DC lobbyists who make their living manipulating it. It's a giant corrupt scam.
a stratified society "is the purest hallmark of a capitalist society". WTF??? in fact that is exactly what capitalism is NOT supposed to be. marginal pricing theory anybody? capitalism purports to result in a perfectly egalitarian income distribution - an infinite number of small producers and consumers each a price taker and individually incapable of influencing the market. in fact capitalism and socialism claim to achieve the same thing - an egalitarian society (albeit by different means). capitalism has always had a much better PR department. to bitch and moan about the world being run by bankers and state that this is evidence of socialism is retarded. whatever you call the system that we currently live under it is certainly not socialism. anyway, think about it.
Wow. The fonz has now really jumped the shark.
Per Jimmy Kimmel's show....The fonz is now an honorary member of the Order of the British Empire....by no less than the Queen herself.
Fitting that in a time of sharks being jumped everywhere the Queen bestows such retarded nothings on the man that invented the term.
It's all the fucking teachers' fault. Fire their asses.
Spring
Erlose mich
Spring
Enttausch mich nicht
Spring fur mich
Spring ins Licht
SPRING!!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9jbKRgWWml4
Unfettered capitalism has never existed and it never will. Definitive communism has never existed and it never will. Socialism in totality has never existed and it never will.
A combination of all have all existed as dictatorships, oligarchies, kleptocracies, and others. Anyone who thinks otherwise is a fool.
Mr. Beale, genuine question: how would you categorize Norway's political system? Mixed economy?
Thank you DavidPierre and Caviar Emptor on your deep, documented insight into American history that corroborates everything I've read and/or experienced personally. I love Oliver Stone's movies : JFK, Nixon, Wall Street; great chunks of history. And that memorable line in 'Nixon' : 'the ferocious beast...'
Americans are fundamentally sheep. Until the fleecing hits closer to home, the average Joe and Jane six-pack are going to keep their eyes closed and pretend their still in Oz.
"While you were dragging to your sacrificial altars the men of justice, of independence, of reason, of wealth, of self-esteem -- I beat you to it, I reached them first. I told them the nature of the game you were playing and the nature of that moral code of yours, which they had been too innocently generous to grasp. I showed them the way to live by
another morality-mine. It is mine that they chose to follow.
All the men who have vanished, the men you hated, yet dreaded to lose; it is I who have taken them away from you. Do not attempt to find us. We do not choose to be found. Do not cry that it is our duty to serve you. We do not recognize such duty. Do not cry that you need us. We do not consider need a claim. Do not cry that you own us. You don't. Do not beg us to return. We are on strike, we, the men of the mind.
We are on strike against self-immolation. We are on strike against the creed of unearned rewards and unrewarded duties. We are on strike against the dogma that the pursuit of one's happiness is evil. We are on strike against the doctrine that life is guilt.
There is a difference between our strike and all those you've practiced for centuries: our strike consists, not of making demands, but of granting them. We are evil, according to your morality. We have chosen not to harm you any longer. We are useless, according to your economics. We have chosen not to exploit you any longer. We are dangerous and to
be shackled, according to your politics. We have chosen not to endanger you, nor to wear the shackles any longer. We are only an illusion, according to your philosophy. We have chosen not to blind you any longer and have left you free to face reality -- the reality you wanted, the world as you see it now, a world without mind." -- John Galt
Most of you KNOW who wrote these words. Those that still think that "Atlas Shrugged" is fictional, well, hold steady, you're about to see Reality re-defined for the entire World.
http://www.atlasshruggedpart1.com/
Many looters and moochers believe themselves to be John Galt. This does not make it so.
Income equality, racial equality, sex equality yabba yabba is communism ...pass the sick bag.
It's no different to comparing the rise of Pro-tennis players ability and complaining they get ever better compared to your Average Joe club player every year. It's absolute nonsense.
What is not nonsense however is complaining you work hard, take your risks and do well from your decisions and always get screwed by the (Govt) system. The disparity between a small business and Big Biz who get bailed out or helped out when they're incompetent is the real issue.
The systemic problem in society, on Wall Street, in the military-industrial complex is not the industry itself (shit happens and will always happen). The problem is Government. Govt props up the bankrupt, the corruption, the murder and mayhem at societies cost.
The systemic problem is not fairness, it is Government itself propping up shit by impoverishing (robbing) the competent.
I would agree.
People should make a.distinction between the working upper middle class and the useless and dangerous plutocrats.
The end of the middle class...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SZk0EkJ2ukY
Almost as stunning as the events in Libya - The US Dollar did not go up - even went down against terminally ill ones like the Euro. This is significant. Dont know if Bennie is smart enough to let a bit of reality seep into his model -addled consciousness. probably not. Like Gaddafi - he will just keep going - fight to the end. To expect people in power to suddenly change their minds and turn over a new leaf is to have not stayed awake during the past week.
Its OK. All the folks feeling very clever that they managed to make off with a large amount of "money" prior to the ship going down are going to have the last cry. They will discover that their own actions destroyed the very money that they so desperately walked off with. What is this "money" that the elites have? Hmm? bank accounts? T-Bills? What happens when the Dollar collapses ( Saint Ben is doing his utmost). Its all going to be utterly worthless. Where are they going to run to? Oh yeah some nice small independent wealthy autocratic place like.... Bahrain? What happens to all those 20 bedroom monstrosities that they may have acquired? Turned into hotels after being confiscated? Where are they going to send their children - for education? Do they think there is some place to run to? Their kids will want to see the world. oops!!
So - to all the "brilliant" scamsters occupying the tp 1 basis point of the population - I say - Adios Amigos and may the wind at your back not be your own.
Well I suppose the billionaires could decide to rent out the 'honeymoon suites" on the top floor of whtever 5 startr hotel is nearby . And watch the revolution and chaos safely isolated at great height. Such fun!!
Only problem is their kids will rebel - as kids do - they'll want to leave the carefully guarded gates of the 5 star hotel. See the world. That is unfortunately the problem with this strategy.
Great article, good graphs.
Well I suppose the billionaires could decide to rent out the 'honeymoon suites" on the top floor of whtever 5 startr hotel is nearby . And watch the revolution and chaos safely isolated at great height. Such fun!!
Only problem is their kids will rebel - as kids do - they'll want to leave the carefully guarded gates of the 5 star hotel. See the world. That is unfortunately the problem with this strategy.
Gini coefficeint
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gini_coefficient
Enormous, country-sized wealth is ultimately meanigless. Witness gates and Buffett giving away 90+% of it to charities. I mean - there is nothing worth buying that will enhance one's life at that level of wealth.
Moreover, huge wealth is ultimately fleeting unless you can defend it.
Iam speaking out for the poor top 1 basis point of siociety that everyone assumes - "have it made". They dont.
Hiding places to the top 1 basis point are rapidly vanishing. new Zealand was a favorite - not immune to natural disasters I guess. Middle eastern dictatorships a long standing favorite - not too safe right about now. Well I guess there is always Switzerland - not too good anymore - hounded by the IRS with banks increasingly unwilling to have US citizens as customers.
So that leaves the great , sparsely populated wilderness areas - the rain forests , mountains in South America , remote islands. Appealing - but of course subject to the whims of the local village chieftain.
Too tough - and they worked so hard for that loot - destroying their bodies, relationships . Someone should write a sad song ( Paul Simon?) about the plight of the top basis point.
Don't take the tax rate of 30% + for the wealthy at face value. The wealthy seldom pay this. Most incomes over $1M per year are mostly in the form of capital gains. In addition, the hedge fund managers have a special tax dispensation (just renewed by Congress) that puts them in the 7% tax bracket. The rich also have offshore corporations, shelters, etc. A friend of mine manages money for some very wealthy clients. He says that other than some property taxes and sales taxes they pay zero to the Federal or state government.
And that is not me. I am not a plutocrat.
I will pay about 85,000 in state and local taxes, about thirty percent of total income. My biggest deduction is not a deduction but a deferral, a sep ira deduction, so my taxes are deferred, not eliminated.
Yes Assfire and me are John Galt. Assfire is ready to consider alternatives to harrassment and confiscation.
As a specialist physician in a designated shortage area you can fucking drive an hour for your appointment and wait four weeks if i decide to work part time and get my Galt on.
Tax the upper middle class more at your own peril. Watch more jobs go to Asia and professional services deteriorate in quantity and quality.
We doctors can and will decrease our package size too in response to taxflation. You used to get ten minutes with the doc? Welcome to the new " economy sized" office visit.
You sure post alot, all through the day even, for a doctor (a profession I thought was overworked).
Be interesting to see the distribution of firearms among those various groups.
I'm just sayin...
Sophist, here is a news flash....much of what you said I believe and it is probably true, but you left out one five letter word that makes a world of difference...GREED....
Not only have we let government get big, we have turned our banks and corporations into welfare queens leeching off of the middle class in the form of tax breaks and incentives and being bailed out by the taxpayer.
You also forgot about those who are at the top whether by virtue of being born with a silver spoon or having earnd scratched and climbed their way up, have become greedy.
When a CEO is making 128 times an employee in his company that is GREED my friend.
When a CEO and his cohort VP's decide the best way to earn a profit is "cut cost" also known as layoff the little guy while approving for themselves astronomical bonuses and letting the taxpayer foot the bill.. that is GREED!
I too came from a poor family.. the youngest of 8 and I too live a comfortable life and earn above average, but there is not one corporation that I have worked for in the past where I haven't seen this attitude of Greed and profitting on the backs of the underpayed who contribute more then what they earn.
An easy way to get back at the rich is borrow huge amount of capital and not pay them back. OOh they already did that trick with you!!
All animals are equal, but some animals are more equal than others.
"Four legs GOOD, two legs BAD."
true that- america's rich are getting richer, poor getting poorer:
http://www.hedgefundlive.com/blog/rich-getting-richer-poor-getting-poorer-shrinking-middle-class-in-america
If we have the raw data that supports the [mal-]distribution of income, let's publish a directory of the "elite". It's only a small number. I'm serious. Sick and tired of seeing all the macro stats on increasing inequality and associated hand-wringing that results in zero action. I want to see the names. Where is Julian Assange when you need him? Let's make it personal.
It sounds weird at first, but I think you're right. We should stop being so strangely abstract about it. How many names would it be, I wonder. Probably less than 2,000. A very intellectually manageable number. That would be an interesting data set.
"The average income for the bottom 90 percent of us? $31,244." LOL, like the bottom "us" read ZH.
Is it the objective of the US government to see that individual economic outcomes are largely equalized? If the answer is yes, there is no hope for our country as a source of GDP growth and world leadership.
Leveling the opportunity playing field is very different than leveling outcomes. Get government out of picking winners and losers by changing the kind of person who represents you in government.
With so many people caring about equalizing outcomes (presumably out of compassion for their fellow man), why was the income distribution chart not done on a global basis??
The old quote comes to mind: "Well other than that Mrs. Lincoln, how did you like the play?"
We're screwed!!
Why is this called "social" stratification?? Seems to be income stratification?
By calling it social stratification, seems to suggest the bulk of social significance and worth comes from income level? Pretty shallow and as materialistic as it gets.
there you go, shutting down a perfectly rational thread with a comment like that...
heh