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Volatility Chasing Goes Gold: Precious Metals Drop On Year End Profit-Taking Rumor

Tyler Durden's picture





 

Both gold and silver are having a rough day to say the least. After a forced slide in the gold complex pushed the metal to sub $1,380, fueled in part by recurring rumors of a large macro/commodity fund taking profits ahead of the year end, numerous stops were triggered, bringing it to nearly $1,370, almost $50 below the all time high reached, oh, yesterday. And since traders are now desperate for volatility, which has disappeared from stocks, the daytrading crowd has taken over both the precious metals space... and the bond market. That said, momentum chasers entering the gold and bond market may have the makings of the greatest comedy witnessed in markets in the past several years.

 


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Wed, 12/08/2010 - 11:33 | Link to Comment ReeferMac
ReeferMac's picture

D'oh!!! This one's a stomach turner....

Wed, 12/08/2010 - 11:40 | Link to Comment 66Sexy
66Sexy's picture

take a ride on the 'Dizzy'...

 

DZZ, that is.

 

Then use the profits to buy physical. Simple enough idea.

Wed, 12/08/2010 - 11:44 | Link to Comment ReeferMac
ReeferMac's picture

Thanks Sexy... DGP's been kind to me in the past, so I may use that to play the other side.

Just sorry I didn't see Tuesday coming (now if it can get back before expiration this month, it'll just make for a funny war-story (assuming the ulcer doesn't kill me))

Wed, 12/08/2010 - 11:58 | Link to Comment Slash
Slash's picture

It was asking for a drop. It (silver) moved up there too quick. Don't bet (in the short term anyways) against the people with the printing presses or commercial banks.

Wed, 12/08/2010 - 14:52 | Link to Comment edwardscpa
edwardscpa's picture

Psych 101:  yesterday, I wanted to buy PM.  Today, I do not.

Wed, 12/08/2010 - 12:03 | Link to Comment 66Sexy
66Sexy's picture

higher rates across the board is bad for ALL equity, except anti-equity: shorts..

Got Cash?

This could be a significant reversal. If there is a semi crash in PM's the physical demand at some point will extinguish supply and there wont be any availability.

Wed, 12/08/2010 - 12:26 | Link to Comment Syntaxkat
Syntaxkat's picture

Funny how APMEX and other sites don't reflect the drop in spot to the price in physical, still offering them at the high.  Guess the run's bigger than expected.

Wed, 12/08/2010 - 14:02 | Link to Comment Red Neck Repugnicant
Red Neck Repugnicant's picture

This is fucking bonkers! 

Monday morning, after watching a cartoon on YouTube and reading some comments on a blog, I bought a bunch of silver. After paying retail value, plus juice, I own these damn silver bars at $32/oz. I didn't think much of it because a trillion dollar bank on Wall Street was (supposedly) going to implode very soon, and the price of silver was going to hit $75/oz or more. This was a fact, and the only variable was whether or not the world was going to end.   

Tuesday, I went and bought a Jaguar, based on this inside information that I had and the enormous profits that I mentally booked for myself. 

48 hours later, I still haven't received the bars, and my dealer said he'd buy them back from me at the wholesale value of $27/oz. He said the rumor of JPM going bust turned out to be just a bunch of mania, driven primarily by silver/gold dealers trying to dump inventory at record high prices to a record numbers of idiots.   

Nucking' Futs!

Anyone want to buy my Jaguar? I can't afford it anymore. 

 

 

 

Wed, 12/08/2010 - 14:16 | Link to Comment Whizbang
Whizbang's picture

You didn't seriously buy precious metals at 10 year highs did you? Tell me you're joking

Wed, 12/08/2010 - 14:45 | Link to Comment Red Neck Repugnicant
Red Neck Repugnicant's picture

Yes, I did.  I wish I hadn't. And I think it's more like 30 year highs.

There was only one poster on this forum this past weekend that advised on selling silver/gold on Monday.  He said that while fundamentals are certainly strong, the current price movement was indicative of pure mania, rumor and speculation by dealers trying to unload inventory at record high prices. 

That person got junked over 40 times and ridiculed by EVERYONE.  So I assumed EVERYONE was right.

I bought.  Not only did I buy, I used my head as collateral and now I'm getting calls from a neurosurgeon representing Mr. Lucifer.  Anyone know who Mr. Lucifer is?

 

Palin/O'Donnell/coins/cans/conservatives 2012

Wed, 12/08/2010 - 14:57 | Link to Comment RafterManFMJ
RafterManFMJ's picture

Pretty sure he is the chairman of the Federal Reserve.

Wed, 12/08/2010 - 15:24 | Link to Comment Chupacabra
Chupacabra's picture

Uninteresting troll is uninteresting.

Wed, 12/08/2010 - 15:37 | Link to Comment GoinFawr
GoinFawr's picture

++

Wed, 12/08/2010 - 15:51 | Link to Comment RockyRacoon
RockyRacoon's picture

Day trading is not wise.   When I was paying $7.33 each for Silver Eagles back in 1995, I thought dealers were nuts asking $8 for them in the numismatic periodicals.   Not so much any more.

Hang in there.

Wed, 12/08/2010 - 19:29 | Link to Comment Lord Koos
Lord Koos's picture

I started buying silver two weeks ago, at $27, 28, 29 and 30.  I am so not worried.

Wed, 12/08/2010 - 14:41 | Link to Comment Slartebartfast
Slartebartfast's picture

Don't be such a putz.  Take delivery of your bars and wait.  You will do very well.  The shyster here is your dealer, trying to panic you so he can make money on bars he doesn't even have.  Tell him you want delivery and see what happens.

Wed, 12/08/2010 - 17:10 | Link to Comment UncleFurker
UncleFurker's picture

The mistake wasn't buying the silver, it was buying the Jaguar.

 

Wed, 12/08/2010 - 18:16 | Link to Comment Red Neck Repugnicant
Red Neck Repugnicant's picture

Yeah, there might be some truth to that.

The Jaguar salesperson told me the $10,000 addendum to the MSRP was due to the rarity of the car, and that I probably could sell the Jaguar on Craigslist for $20,000 over MSRP, netting me an instant profit of nothing since the taxes on the purchase would eat almost all of it. But at least I (supposedly) wouldn't lose money. 

Well, that was bullshit.  I went to the other Jaguar dealer this afternoon and tried to sell it to them, but they offered me $20,000 less than MSRP, and the vehicle is only 26 hours old with 14 miles on it.

I'm such a fucking sucker!  First I take the advice of all you idiots and buy silver at 30 year highs, because everyone here told me it was going to $75/oz and that the failure of JPM was imminent. Then I buy this Jaguar with the imaginary profits and loose another $20,000.

For me to break even out of my silver trade that I made on Monday, silver would have to reach $34/oz., because I only get wholesale when I sell it back to the dealer.  At today's prices that puts me $7/oz underwater!

You fuckers!  BOB SAGET!!

I don't understand why the Jaguar dealer lied to me, and I don't understand why the silver/gold dealer lied.  Are they just trying to make money off me?  That's ridiculous!  Fuck Obama!

Palin/O'Donnell/coins/cans/conservatives 2012

 

Thu, 12/09/2010 - 02:38 | Link to Comment Elitist Lib Dum...
Elitist Lib Dummydont's picture

What I really mean to say is: please, please, please do not save my statements from this thread and use them against me when gold/silver go back up. My ego is far too inflated and fragile to handle ever being told I'm wrong. As a matter of fact, I'm never wrong. Never wrong, and markets do not change, got it? All markets move linearly. Gold and silver down today; gold and silver down forever. Capice?

Wed, 12/08/2010 - 17:15 | Link to Comment Exposer of Inte...
Exposer of Internet Shills's picture

sniff sniff

Wed, 12/08/2010 - 16:24 | Link to Comment DosZap
DosZap's picture

Yep, and why?, because no one is DUMPING physical.

At least anyone with a brain.

Supply & demand, this is DECEMBER.

Happens every year.

Wed, 12/08/2010 - 13:12 | Link to Comment DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture

@66,

Yes, it is never a bad idea to have some cash, best of all would be some FRNs, both for emergency purposes as well as for PM dip buying.

Wed, 12/08/2010 - 16:21 | Link to Comment RockyRacoon
RockyRacoon's picture

Does anyone remember the old days:  When silver broke $20 and gold broke $1,000?

Didn't think so...

Wed, 12/08/2010 - 16:43 | Link to Comment Maiden Lane
Maiden Lane's picture

I thought it was exciting when it went from high 500 to around seven briefly then back and ground sideways for a year.

Wed, 12/08/2010 - 23:03 | Link to Comment GoinFawr
GoinFawr's picture

Wow, you must be shitting your pants on a daily basis over the last couple of years then. I pity your drycleaner, and your fellow carpoolers.

Wed, 12/08/2010 - 13:40 | Link to Comment Mr Lennon Hendrix
Mr Lennon Hendrix's picture

Not equity in gold.  When Volker began to raise rates, gold followed lock step.  Gold peaked when interest rates did.  Raising interest rates shows a loss of faith in policy; a loss of faith in policy is a boon for real assets, ie gold.

Wed, 12/08/2010 - 14:17 | Link to Comment Slash
Slash's picture

gold kept rising b/c real rates were still negative. It took some time for them to turn positive.

Wed, 12/08/2010 - 11:45 | Link to Comment Arius
Arius's picture

yeap - that's exactly what Goldman kept doing... 

Wed, 12/08/2010 - 11:43 | Link to Comment hugovanderbubble
hugovanderbubble's picture

Long TLT

Long Financials CDS´s

SKF/FAZ/DUG/SCO

Long PUT ES 1110 JAN 2011

Wed, 12/08/2010 - 11:55 | Link to Comment Whizbang
Whizbang's picture

Hope this cheers you up. I thought it was hilarious. 

 

http://wins.failblog.org/2010/12/07/epic-win-photos-messing-with-cash4go...

Wed, 12/08/2010 - 15:32 | Link to Comment midtowng
midtowng's picture

It's just weak hands being chased out of PMs. Its the sign of a bull market in action.

Wed, 12/08/2010 - 11:34 | Link to Comment MichaelNY
MichaelNY's picture

I'd call it a buy opportunity...

Wed, 12/08/2010 - 11:36 | Link to Comment papaswamp
papaswamp's picture

probably not for a day or 3.

Wed, 12/08/2010 - 11:41 | Link to Comment MichaelNY
MichaelNY's picture

(...if I were not already all in.)

Wed, 12/08/2010 - 11:51 | Link to Comment ReeferMac
ReeferMac's picture

Popping the Tum's w/ ya Mikey!

Wed, 12/08/2010 - 11:56 | Link to Comment thetruth
thetruth's picture

i'm levered agq and ugl...

Wed, 12/08/2010 - 12:07 | Link to Comment ReeferMac
ReeferMac's picture

LOL! Stuffed the liquid part of the IRA into calls in AGQ and GDX on one of the bounces yesterday (that were masquerading as a bottom)!!!!!

I'd suggest great-minds-think-alike, but clearly we're just a couple of shitheads!

Wed, 12/08/2010 - 12:20 | Link to Comment thetruth
thetruth's picture

hahaha yes that looks to be the case.  could have bought today...should come back eventually

Wed, 12/08/2010 - 13:01 | Link to Comment ReeferMac
ReeferMac's picture

It bottomed at 28.01 right about where a channel's setting up, but I dunno if I've got enough extrinisic left before it gets to the other side of the channel again. Maybe lighten up a little if there's enough of a bounce today. See what comes when it gets to the MA's? Do those still work, or is TA completely flown the coop?

Wed, 12/08/2010 - 13:38 | Link to Comment thetruth
thetruth's picture

if i can get a bounce back to monday's levels i'm going to switch to physical i think.  just not sure how to time this one

Wed, 12/08/2010 - 15:54 | Link to Comment RockyRacoon
RockyRacoon's picture

People making buying/selling decisions on 50 cent swings are day trading.

That's not how physical metals are used for wealth storage.

If you're getting burned on ETF trades, then knock yourself out, but you'll not get much in the way of sympathy from true goldbugs.

Wed, 12/08/2010 - 13:06 | Link to Comment ColoradoBikerChic
ColoradoBikerChic's picture

Yes, there was a 'masquerading bottom' yesterday.   Ah, the trials and tribulations of reading charts, just when ya think ya have the answers, they change all the dam questions on us..... but uh... looking at the hourly in the moment on SLV, we're now at the 200ma with a DOJI and and HAMMER following... could be time to back up the truck.

Wed, 12/08/2010 - 15:55 | Link to Comment RockyRacoon
RockyRacoon's picture

There are no tops or bottoms in silver/gold -- just relative "prices" in fiat currencies.

Wed, 12/08/2010 - 16:52 | Link to Comment jahbless
jahbless's picture

+1

Wed, 12/08/2010 - 16:24 | Link to Comment MichaelNY
MichaelNY's picture

Thanks Mac but truth to tell, I'm not the least bit worried...  ;-)

 

You see, I have long known that the PM's would retain their value and the goal of the EE is to destroy the USA through the systemic flaw of its monetary system.  My concern is not for the metals, but rather what the neighborhood will look like when that and food and ammo are the last remnants of fungible goods. 

Wed, 12/08/2010 - 12:21 | Link to Comment Henry Chinaski
Henry Chinaski's picture

Good timing for my IRA packed with GLD and SLV that gots to be rolled into a Roth this year. 

 

Think about it.  Gold only broke $1,000 about a year ago and Silver sat below $20 forever...  Wake me up at $1,200 so I can buy more physical. 

Wed, 12/08/2010 - 12:30 | Link to Comment docj
docj's picture

That's about what I figured - at 1200 for AU and 22.50 for AG I start buying again.  Thanks, COMEX Crime Syndicate!

Wed, 12/08/2010 - 13:12 | Link to Comment docj
docj's picture

Oops.

Heh - I thought I commented on this.  I suppose I should have known better.  Oh well, another day another server burp!

Wed, 12/08/2010 - 14:47 | Link to Comment reload
reload's picture

I started accumulating Physical Gold in March 08 at $1000, it went down to $700 by October. My attempts to finess my additional purchases were not great and for ages (until Apr 09 in fact) my average price was offside. I did not loose ANY sleep!

Since that first purchase in 08 I have exitted the equity market completely and continued to buy gold every eight weeks. In October 09 I started to acquire Silver every 8 weeks. So once a month I make a cash transaction with a reputable bullion dealer, Gold and Silver on alternate months.

I no longer put any money into a pension, mutual fund, money market fund or any other `product`

My pension holdings from previous contributions are commodity, resource, energy and food production focussed.

As long as the printing of Fiat money continues I will stick with my strategy. I am not nimble enough to finess my purchases, let alone worry about day trading the stuff.   

Wed, 12/08/2010 - 15:51 | Link to Comment Strider52
Strider52's picture

.

Wed, 12/08/2010 - 11:35 | Link to Comment malek
malek's picture

Buy these f'ing dips!

Wed, 12/08/2010 - 12:06 | Link to Comment Pegasus Muse
Pegasus Muse's picture

Just bought 100 more 1 oz Ag Rounds.  8 weeks to deliver.  Bullion broker said they're going crazy.  Huge order volume, 5:1 buyers to sellers.

Also upped my positions in GDXJ & SIL.   Both on sale thanks to JPM's market manipulation.  

Wed, 12/08/2010 - 13:19 | Link to Comment DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture

Looks like the physical shortages have started in the last couple of weeks or so.

Like Gordon G and FOFOA have said, the physical is going to start getting real hard to get.

Wed, 12/08/2010 - 15:59 | Link to Comment RockyRacoon
RockyRacoon's picture

Yep.  A counter-intuitive thing:  The higher the price, the less availability.

Wed, 12/08/2010 - 12:25 | Link to Comment traderjoe
traderjoe's picture

Totally. Don't care about the day to day volatility. Congress and President have demonstrated that they will never pay back the debt, and BB will PRINT, PRINT, PRINT. The $ is going to zero, don't know when and how, but it will get there...

Wed, 12/08/2010 - 11:35 | Link to Comment spartan117
spartan117's picture

Blythe's last stand.

Wed, 12/08/2010 - 11:38 | Link to Comment smeagol
smeagol's picture

odd how the sell off happens everyday at 9.45 NYT just in time for the london pm fix

Wed, 12/08/2010 - 11:38 | Link to Comment Quintus
Quintus's picture

Isn't it?  You'd almost think that someone was creating a selloff in the Ponzi Paper gold market so they can get a better price buying physical on the LBMA.

Hmmm.

Wed, 12/08/2010 - 11:51 | Link to Comment Spalding_Smailes
Spalding_Smailes's picture

Really ?

 

A trade thats been built upon paper since the 80's... Derivatives ( Via CB/Miners ). WMD

Wed, 12/08/2010 - 12:03 | Link to Comment Quintus
Quintus's picture

You think the Chinese and Arabs are interested in buying paper gold?

Doubt it.

Wed, 12/08/2010 - 12:08 | Link to Comment Spalding_Smailes
Spalding_Smailes's picture

How big is the (physical market) in relation with total gold traded every day in the markets ?

 

Tyler just posted about a new ETF trading in China .... Lol'

Wed, 12/08/2010 - 12:09 | Link to Comment Quintus
Quintus's picture

I don't see what that's got to do with it.  China can dump a couple of thousand Contracts on the Comex in 30 seconds and knock $10 off the price just before the PM fix then buy 50 tonnes of physical at the Fix price.  Why wouldn't they do that?

Do you have an alternative explanation for the recurring price weakness at the AM and PM fixes?

Wed, 12/08/2010 - 12:25 | Link to Comment Spalding_Smailes
Spalding_Smailes's picture

The paper market is huge.

The great " gold " market is a paper ponzi like the rest. A trade/bet.

 

The Impact of Derivatives on the Gold Market

 


..."In the long
run, yes these derivative positions will have to come to maturity or will be
closed out but in the short and medium term they created a bubble of
accelerated supply to market. This badly distorted the annual supply/demand
balance and the short to medium term turned out to last for more than a
painful decade, during which the gold price came under persistent pressure.".....

...."Note the marked increase in output from North
America and Australia during the 1980s. All this increased production, as it
rolled off the drawing board and into d’ore trucks, required project financing.
At that stage, US Dollar interest rates were comparatively high. The
differential between the cost of borrowing dollars and borrowing gold was
wide enough to convince the miners of the wisdom of the gold loan – the
original prototype derivative product. The miners borrowed gold from a bullion
bank, sold it to raise capital with the intention of paying it back through future
production from the developed mine. Once financed through metal borrowing,
this new output was subject to price risk, which the miner elected to managed
through increasingly sophisticated bullion base derivatives. This created a
very ready market for a whole range of derivative products for basic forwards
through to vanilla and then exotic options and any combination of these
products that one might care to imagine."......

..."Back in 1994, after following what I called the derivative revolution throughout
the 1980s, I commented on this very issue. …”what may
benefit an individual mining company does not necessarily augur well for the
market as a whole…. On occasions, producer hedging will not only influence
the price, but may even act as a major price determinant.”....

Wed, 12/08/2010 - 12:34 | Link to Comment Quintus
Quintus's picture

I still don't see your point.  The Chinese (Or other physical buyers of size) could be using the paper market you describe so accurately to lower the price for their physical purchases which generally take place at the agreed London Fix price.

They are not trading.  They are not flipping contracts.  They are loading up Airplanes with gold and shipping it to a vault from which it may never emerge in our lifetime.  I contend that this is behind the London Fix price movements.  The wider picture of paper gold and derivative shenanigans isn't really relevant to a sovereign state looking for permanent accumulation of physical gold reserves.

Wed, 12/08/2010 - 12:51 | Link to Comment Spalding_Smailes
Spalding_Smailes's picture

I'm talking about the entire gold market. Maybe 10-20% is real. Your at the mercy of a trade.

The fake paper has helped drive the price.

 

If gold/silver started tanking who is going to buy it ???

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gk5aRIz17fk

 

Wed, 12/08/2010 - 13:11 | Link to Comment ForWhomTheTollBuilds
ForWhomTheTollBuilds's picture

"Your at the mercy of a trade."

 

No we aren't.  We are not traders.  We keep going over this and over this with the trolls again and again.

 

While we wait for a more reputable financial system to evolve, most of us hope gold is driven to $1 an ounce by the biggest naked short of all time. 

 

This event would make you as happy as it would make us.

 

Wed, 12/08/2010 - 12:18 | Link to Comment smeagol
smeagol's picture

Perception management, they usually like to get the pm lower than the am.

Wed, 12/08/2010 - 12:37 | Link to Comment qussl3
qussl3's picture

The problem with your theory is that it assumes the sellers of physical are idiots.

Wed, 12/08/2010 - 12:56 | Link to Comment Quintus
Quintus's picture

They must be if they haven't noticed by now that the Fix prices they sell at are often the lowest of the day.

Wed, 12/08/2010 - 19:11 | Link to Comment kubrick007
kubrick007's picture

why buy gold or silver etfs or even gdx/gdxj/sil?

 

buy physical, buy shares of good miners, if u r great at technicals maybe dabble in options...but each of these need different skill sets and time frames.

 

great miners out there just have to look (i am in AUNFF, AUY, BCEKF, BRD, FVITF, GPRLF, JAG, PAL, SWC, SLW, and SNDXF - anyone else out there found other good miners?). they will rise with physical but GLD/GDXJ/GDX/SLV will collapse if the system collapses.

Wed, 12/08/2010 - 13:24 | Link to Comment Commander Cody
Commander Cody's picture

In the end, all paper will be proven worthless.

Wed, 12/08/2010 - 11:36 | Link to Comment cbaba
cbaba's picture

buy buy...big opportunity.

Wed, 12/08/2010 - 11:38 | Link to Comment Mr Lennon Hendrix
Mr Lennon Hendrix's picture

Yes.  We broke both levels of support (1st line of support was at $1395, second was at $1385).  This is a buying opportunity.  I would not be surprised if we end the day back around $1400.  I will be surprised if it trades any lower than $1372.

Wed, 12/08/2010 - 12:13 | Link to Comment geminiRX
geminiRX's picture

The volatility is so huge, it is setting up for a pretty ferocious snap up soon.

Wed, 12/08/2010 - 12:23 | Link to Comment oddjob
oddjob's picture

$CAD agrees.

Wed, 12/08/2010 - 13:23 | Link to Comment GoinFawr
GoinFawr's picture

and Mark Carney (another GS alumni) is doing his level best to help!

Wed, 12/08/2010 - 13:38 | Link to Comment apberusdisvet
apberusdisvet's picture

The Asian Blythe fukkers are just salivating, waiting for HK to open tonight.

Wed, 12/08/2010 - 11:35 | Link to Comment jesse livermoore
jesse livermoore's picture

Time to start buying gold and silver,  me thinks

Wed, 12/08/2010 - 11:37 | Link to Comment unwashedmass
unwashedmass's picture

 

long time gold/silver person here, okay by me if they push it down. took profits the other day now looking to get back in.

thanks JPM for reloading our guns to shoot you thru the heart.

Wed, 12/08/2010 - 13:23 | Link to Comment DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture

Yes, thanks JPM!

Jamie D, get JonNadler´s butt back in here and MAKE SURE the prices of PMs is a lot lower in 10 days when I get back.  Say $1200 and $24 would be alright, muchas gracias!

Wed, 12/08/2010 - 11:38 | Link to Comment Arius
Arius's picture

i suppose more lambs being lined up for slaughtering...good luck on daytrading against Blythe et al

Wed, 12/08/2010 - 11:42 | Link to Comment smeagol
smeagol's picture

Don't trade against her, piggyback her

Wed, 12/08/2010 - 11:46 | Link to Comment Bastiat
Bastiat's picture

Have to wait until Jamie's done.

Wed, 12/08/2010 - 12:23 | Link to Comment espirit
espirit's picture

Nasty thought!

Wed, 12/08/2010 - 12:24 | Link to Comment Al Huxley
Al Huxley's picture

LOL!

Wed, 12/08/2010 - 11:38 | Link to Comment Cognitive Dissonance
Cognitive Dissonance's picture

Ah yes, the persistent "rumors" that seem to move markets. A wise old sage 25 years ago told me that markets don't move, they are moved.

You'd think all Wall Street was is a bunch of gossiping (and desperate) housewives discussing who's screwing whom and what scandal will break next. Maybe there's some truth to that idea. I do agree that volatility is profitable, especially for those who induce it or who can trade in milliseconds.

Wed, 12/08/2010 - 11:39 | Link to Comment Mr Lennon Hendrix
Mr Lennon Hendrix's picture

You'd think all Wall Street was is a bunch of gossiping (and desperate) housewives discussing who's screwing whom and what scandal will break next.

They are.

Wed, 12/08/2010 - 11:45 | Link to Comment Cognitive Dissonance
Cognitive Dissonance's picture

I agree for the most part.

Which is why I started out by saying markets are (deliberately) moved. People who have much to gain by moving the markets with rumors use the gossiping Wall Street housewives to their advantage.

Wed, 12/08/2010 - 11:49 | Link to Comment Mr Lennon Hendrix
Mr Lennon Hendrix's picture

I liked your analogy, and wanted to drive it home.

Wed, 12/08/2010 - 11:48 | Link to Comment etrader
etrader's picture

They're worse, when someones  upside down on the basic long GC short TYZ .

Wed, 12/08/2010 - 11:50 | Link to Comment BobPaulson
BobPaulson's picture

I was thinking it right before I read your response.

Wed, 12/08/2010 - 11:39 | Link to Comment dojiman
dojiman's picture

just bought some GG, bullion next if we revisit 1300

Wed, 12/08/2010 - 11:49 | Link to Comment Arius
Arius's picture

you might as well for 1000$...Lol

Wed, 12/08/2010 - 11:44 | Link to Comment bigdumbnugly
bigdumbnugly's picture

same time of day each time this happens.  looks more like another raid than year-end profit taking to me.  profit taking now coming as a result of the raids.

which came first? chicken or egg theory.

Wed, 12/08/2010 - 11:47 | Link to Comment Cognitive Dissonance
Cognitive Dissonance's picture

We might be able to answer that question if Wall Street and the banking empire weren't run as a crime syndicate.

Wed, 12/08/2010 - 12:06 | Link to Comment bigdumbnugly
bigdumbnugly's picture

yeah, you know i was starting to fool myself into believing i could tap into the criminal mind of the EE and position myself accordingly - but i see even a lowly sinner like me has a long, long way to go to catch up.

rat bastards

Wed, 12/08/2010 - 11:41 | Link to Comment lsbumblebee
lsbumblebee's picture

The cartel pulls their bids and the hedge funds do the rest. If this keeps up my credit card will max out on APMEX.

 

Wed, 12/08/2010 - 11:44 | Link to Comment Sudden Debt
Sudden Debt's picture

Mine already did.

Seems like it takes Visa at least 3 days to notice it :)

maybe my cellphone broke down or they just have to many calls to make.

But monday is bonus time! So it'll be oké by then.

Wed, 12/08/2010 - 12:45 | Link to Comment Xibalba
Xibalba's picture

Did you get popcorn?  I know I did! 

Wed, 12/08/2010 - 19:18 | Link to Comment kubrick007
kubrick007's picture

hey how do you get APMEX to accept cc orders over 5k? today they made me do a bank wire for 10k - i don't get it in the past i used my debit card but now can't!

Wed, 12/08/2010 - 11:42 | Link to Comment swissinv
swissinv's picture

Maybe Keiser told his community that the silver buys from the retails market is not sufficient to build a JPM bomb

Wed, 12/08/2010 - 11:44 | Link to Comment Mr Lennon Hendrix
Mr Lennon Hendrix's picture

Nope.  He is sticking with it.  He argues his case here, as Jones plays devils advocate.

Max Keiser: The Buy Silver Campaign Round 2 - Alex Jones Tv:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JE_n-qKUhiA

Wed, 12/08/2010 - 12:00 | Link to Comment swissinv
swissinv's picture

that was ironical -> Keiser will achieve a shit with this but the hedge funds will finally help to rule it

Wed, 12/08/2010 - 11:42 | Link to Comment Sudden Debt
Sudden Debt's picture

It doesn't really make sence.

It'll be up bigtime by next week.

Wed, 12/08/2010 - 11:48 | Link to Comment Mr Lennon Hendrix
Mr Lennon Hendrix's picture

Exactly.  Moves like this (massive selling/manipulation) usually results in a huge move up soon after.  This is the main reason the US/UK stopped selling gold on the open market in the '60s.  It was creating price volatility.  Now since the cat is out of the bag, well, they have no choice but to continue the manipulation.

Wed, 12/08/2010 - 11:54 | Link to Comment Arius
Arius's picture

i suppose double down..."no choice"...it reminds me of someone writing of great minds of JPM who would have solved it if a solution exists...give me a break...

they are arrogant, playing a fixed game...smart??? doubt it, if you are sinking your own ship

Wed, 12/08/2010 - 12:03 | Link to Comment Spalding_Smailes
Spalding_Smailes's picture

Perth couple Brian and Eileen Bowden are among thousands reaping the benefits of the states robust economy as they prepare to extract a $100,000 profit on their home in just six weeks.The people who we bought this house from made $100,000 off us, so its a non-stop cycle Mr Bowden said.


"West shows way but east trembles" by Anthony Klan and Alana Buckley-Carr, The Australian.

Wed, 12/08/2010 - 12:10 | Link to Comment Cognitive Dissonance
Cognitive Dissonance's picture

...reaping the benefits of the states robust economy......

One man's "robust economy" is another man's "bubble". 

This is a perfect example of the (Australian) mainstream media fanning the flames of the bubble rather than asking simple questions such as "Why is a $100,000 "profit" on a home in six weeks considered part of a robust economy".

Wed, 12/08/2010 - 13:29 | Link to Comment NumberNone
NumberNone's picture

Asking questions is no longer part of a reporter's job description. 

Wed, 12/08/2010 - 17:00 | Link to Comment jahbless
jahbless's picture

speaking of Perth I just ordered a metric assload of 1oz koalas - thanks perth mint!

(thanks ZH too)

Wed, 12/08/2010 - 11:45 | Link to Comment Rogerwilco
Rogerwilco's picture

Uh, the guys at the local coin shops are all out of silver. They just smile at me when I ask if they have any Eagles, rounds, anything? WTF, it's goin' to the moon and these "experts" don't have any?

Guess I better hurry and buy some on eBay, rounds are only $60 from a dude in Nigeria. Says he takes cash if mailed discreetly.

Wed, 12/08/2010 - 11:45 | Link to Comment gaoptimize
gaoptimize's picture

This may be the dip hesitant buyers have been waiting for.  I'll get snapping up some SIL today, thank you!

Wed, 12/08/2010 - 11:48 | Link to Comment Spalding_Smailes
Spalding_Smailes's picture

Or a dip that crushed everyone after jumping in at all time highs.

Wed, 12/08/2010 - 12:10 | Link to Comment tmosley
tmosley's picture

Except for those who bought physical.  Premiums for physical silver are blowing up.  I've seen 100oz bars with a $2/oz premium on them!  These are just regular bars that normally carry a premium of 30-70 cents.

But yeah, you keep selling.  It makes it a lot easier for smart people to participate in the trade of the millennium.

Wed, 12/08/2010 - 12:29 | Link to Comment SheepDog-One
SheepDog-One's picture

Physical PM holding isnt for daytraders, its for hedging against long term currency destruction policy.

Wed, 12/08/2010 - 12:51 | Link to Comment tmosley
tmosley's picture

Correct.  But silver has the added benefit of being an out of favor form of money (this suppresses price) that was once stockpiled just like gold (meaning there used to be a huge supply, and there remains deep seated understanding that silver is less valuable than gold, even though it has a higher demand and a smaller supply), but industrial uses have destroyed that stockpile(meaning lots of industries are about to hit a wall, and most of them don't see it coming).

Hence, the trade of the millennium.  Not the day trade of the millennium.  You trade dollars for silver now, you wait for the full supply problem to come into the spotlight, and for everyone to go absolutely nuts over silver, then you trade your silver for something else (not paper).  I'm personally looking at gold, as that will fare the best in the currency crisis that will follow hard on the heels of the silver crisis.

Wed, 12/08/2010 - 13:31 | Link to Comment DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture

SheepDog and tmosley,

Hey I need you guys to do some work for me with JonNadler´s help.

I cannot come back to the USA for another 10 days or so, and I would REALLY like to buy any physical left then, especially at a lower price.

So let´s see a little constructive action here for us holders of PMs as wealth preserver and insurance.  Get JonNadler (and Robot, JW, TWORIVERS, etc.) back in here so I can get my physical at a discount!

That´s in 10 days JonNadler!

Thu, 12/09/2010 - 15:22 | Link to Comment JonNadler
JonNadler's picture

consider it done my friend!

Wed, 12/08/2010 - 12:17 | Link to Comment samsara
samsara's picture

Or a dip that crushed everyone after jumping in at all time highs

 

All time highs  SO FAR.   The Day to Day price is ABSOLUTELY MEANINGLESS.

The ONLY "price" that is inportant (within your paradigm) is the "Price" it is the moment the person sells.

You mean the "Value" of the $USD today is MORE than the "Value" of the $USD was yesterday in relation to Au.

 

Wed, 12/08/2010 - 11:47 | Link to Comment Azannoth
Azannoth's picture

Damn I am kicking my selft for not selling yesterday, all my profits just evaporated!

Wed, 12/08/2010 - 12:17 | Link to Comment Arius
Arius's picture

cant do daytrading in a fixed market, they hold both cards 

Wed, 12/08/2010 - 13:33 | Link to Comment damnitalready
damnitalready's picture

Unless you're one of the few who are getting the signals from JPM about their next move and timing... 

 

Wed, 12/08/2010 - 12:22 | Link to Comment living on the edge
living on the edge's picture

all my profits just evaporated!

Really, are you sure you own any PM's? Anyways this is a buy and forget game or you will lose. Time is on our side.

Wed, 12/08/2010 - 12:32 | Link to Comment Azannoth
Azannoth's picture

I dissagree, timing the market can give 10x more profits that just holding on

Wed, 12/08/2010 - 12:41 | Link to Comment living on the edge
living on the edge's picture

Perhaps. I have many friends trading the markets and only a few are up. To your point those few are really up big. For most people and gold and silver in particular, it is a tough trade. We have a 1-trillion pound gorilla stuck in silver alone and they are still dangerous. They still have a lot of control.

Wed, 12/08/2010 - 11:47 | Link to Comment pile of poop
pile of poop's picture

With interest rates rising around the world, the marginal cost of holding gold over bonds increases dramatically.  If this trend continues, look for gold to sell of dramatically. 

Wed, 12/08/2010 - 11:51 | Link to Comment technovelist
technovelist's picture

With interest rates rising around the world, the marginal cost of holding gold over bonds increases dramatically.  If this trend continues, look for gold to sell of dramatically.

Right, just like gold sold off dramatically in the 1970's when interest rates rose for almost a decade.

Um, wait...

Wed, 12/08/2010 - 12:28 | Link to Comment pile of poop
pile of poop's picture

real interest rates were falling in the 70s.  And I'm sure you would have called the top in the market before the price crashed. 

Wed, 12/08/2010 - 13:34 | Link to Comment GoinFawr
GoinFawr's picture

right. Because in 2010 we are in a 'deflationary spiral', unless of course price increases in everything you need day-to-day, but have been excluded from inflation calculations since 1980, indicate something else, like 'stagflation'. Hey, wasn't that term liberally applied to the disco era?

 

Wed, 12/08/2010 - 11:54 | Link to Comment Yikes
Yikes's picture

After reading yesterdays post regarding the inverse relationship of gold and interest rates, I tend to agree. 

I wonder if it's only when the market starts to fear sovereign default that this inverse relationship is broken.

Wed, 12/08/2010 - 11:57 | Link to Comment Quintus
Quintus's picture

How far do you think rates have to rise before the whole financial system implodes?  What will bonds be worth then?

I understand from Blackhawk Ben that unless he spends trillions to keep rates down the world will end. So if rates start going up will he throw in the towel and let the crash happen, or will he print even more demented quantities of new money?

Wed, 12/08/2010 - 12:27 | Link to Comment flacon
flacon's picture

He has to do the Keynesian thing - because in his mind the Keynesians will be the ones to write history and he doesn't want to be known as "the banker who *could* have printed but didn't". I think he's going to go all in. 

Wed, 12/08/2010 - 12:34 | Link to Comment traderjoe
traderjoe's picture

Add to that analysis the idea that CONgress will never ever make a tough choice like reduce spending, raise taxes, or adjust entitlements. Spending and borrowing to infinity and beyond!

Wed, 12/08/2010 - 12:25 | Link to Comment TheGreatPonzi
TheGreatPonzi's picture

If rates keep going up, that means pressure on States. That means either default, either foolish printing.

Can't see where it is bearish for gold.

Wed, 12/08/2010 - 11:49 | Link to Comment RobotTrader
RobotTrader's picture

As usual, JPM wins again.

Note how most of the bank stocks are green, and the poor gold bugs are getting smushed again from all the hype and hysteria:

"JPM is going to fail!!"

Wed, 12/08/2010 - 11:51 | Link to Comment Azannoth
Azannoth's picture

Are you working for JPM, just asking ?

Wed, 12/08/2010 - 13:36 | Link to Comment DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture

I hope he is working for JPM!  Since I need all the help that Robot (and his alter-ego JonNadler) and fellow PM bears can do for me to bash the prices down to, say, $1200 and $24, I would ask you to keep at it.

Just 10 more days until I get back, thanks guys!  To help get you started:

Au to $0.02

Ag to $0.01

Hope my input helps!

Wed, 12/08/2010 - 11:52 | Link to Comment Spalding_Smailes
Spalding_Smailes's picture

I told um' buy DB,JPM ...

Wed, 12/08/2010 - 11:57 | Link to Comment Arius
Arius's picture

wins what? the war? doubt it...it is just a battle...i bet in less 48 hours u will be impressed by gold's strength...dahhh

Wed, 12/08/2010 - 12:03 | Link to Comment samsara
samsara's picture

As the other guy said,  "Win What?"

I didn't see any movement in the number of Phys Coins I have in my possession.

You are a day trader,  Bet on this today,  move it to that tomorrow.

Most of the people responding to you are a Buy and keep people.

Your comments have very very little bearing on them or their strategies.

 

Wed, 12/08/2010 - 12:08 | Link to Comment Rusty_Griswold
Rusty_Griswold's picture

@ Robot-I thought I grew out of this stage of beating people up about 10 years ago, but seriously. You were a tool in high school and got picked on by the cool kids. You are still a tool now and nobody likes you. You don't trade anything, you have no money and you live with your parents. Go troll craigslist, find a new boyfriend, and stay away from the cool kids.

Wed, 12/08/2010 - 15:39 | Link to Comment GoinFawr
GoinFawr's picture

Rbot: why haven't you posted this chart comparison yet? I don't imagine Eric King can wait forever...

http://img411.imageshack.us/img411/6964/robotloser.jpg

Search your ZH posts Robo, you know it to be true

http://vimeo.com/425529

Regards

Wed, 12/08/2010 - 17:19 | Link to Comment Exposer of Inte...
Exposer of Internet Shills's picture

sniff sniff

Wed, 12/08/2010 - 11:50 | Link to Comment bankrupt JPM bu...
bankrupt JPM buy silver's picture

Over 10% decline in 18 hrs in silver spot...So can they lift the margin requirement now since the market has 'stabilized' and they now seem that the price is not going up and is 'orderly'?

SEC is a joke, CTFC is now bought by Blyth, the Comex is now in Blyths pocket, what a joke. 

Wed, 12/08/2010 - 11:53 | Link to Comment Azannoth
Azannoth's picture

Forget the paper just buy physical, 1 oz of silver is 1oz of silver I don't care what the price is in dollars/euros

Wed, 12/08/2010 - 11:52 | Link to Comment RobotTrader
RobotTrader's picture

Chinese IPO DANG is up 70%.

Maybe Paulson decided to dump his GLD and chase low grade Chinese IPO's instead...

http://www.marketwatch.com/story/e-commerce-china-dangdang-up-over-70-on-debut-2010-12-08?tool=1&dist=bigcharts

Wed, 12/08/2010 - 11:54 | Link to Comment Kaiser Sousa
Kaiser Sousa's picture

repost...

 

From
To: Chilton, Bart
Sent: Tue Dec 07 18:03:49 2010
Subject: Silver Market 12/7/2010

Bart  -
People  r being financially harmed n the midst of what will prove to be one of the most devastating economic cataclysm this country has experienced by virtue of what occurred today n the Gold & Silver fraudulent paper markets.   There is no fundamental market specific justification or greater macro-economic explanation  PERIOD for the price movements n either metals on this day.   Do the citizens of this country have no advocate whomsoever who will protect them from blatant market manipulation perpetrated by JP Morgan & HSBC in there quest to further rob and destroy.  How much of the peoples savings need be destroyed by the bankers before someone takes substantive steps to end the pillaging. 

From an open of 30.64 to an high off 30.75 was Silvers performance only to be naked shorted to 28.66 by the days end continuing into the access markets.   This in what we all know is an environment where "real money" free of bankers ruin should be multiples its current phony paper valuation.  Tough talk, obliquely referencing the fraud we all know is occurring is not enough.  The savers of this country who believe n the constitutional definition of real money and why it is directly tied to the liberty of the citizenry need unambiguous, firm and pronounced action. Please do what is right....

Respectfully,

one of many

 

FromChilton, Bart

Looking at it. Thx.
B

 

Wed, 12/08/2010 - 12:26 | Link to Comment living on the edge
living on the edge's picture

I've been expecting them to knock the wheels off this run and I don't think they are finished yet. Keep sending in orders for physical. Our day is at hand.

Wed, 12/08/2010 - 12:35 | Link to Comment flacon
flacon's picture

Looking at it. Thx.

 

Did he really write that?! It wouldn't surprise me in the least. I think Chilton needs to do the right thing and be the whistleblower. 

Wed, 12/08/2010 - 12:48 | Link to Comment Kaiser Sousa
Kaiser Sousa's picture

he did...and i aint gonna let up on him...if its possible to shame him into turning on those other assholes im gonna push it...

 

bchilton@cftc.gov

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