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Watch Egypt's D-Day Demonstrations Live
Today is Egypt's D-Day: the longer the demonstrators wait to depose Hank Mubarak, the more impossible their mission becomes. Time is on Mubarak's side, and no matter how noble the cause, protesters have to eat... Which means they need to get the infrastructure going, which means they will have reliance on the financial system, which means the status quo will return. Which is why unless they succeed in their mission today, or this weekend at the latest, chances for real reform grow slim. So far today, the protests have been very peaceful and organized, and completely televized. Below are streams from the AP and Al Jazeera for those who wish to follow what is still the most important development in the world.
AP:
Al Jazeera:
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Horsewhippin' Hank?
Hopefully Headless Henry.
It seems that the US have finally realised they were backing the wrong horse and are quickly trying to find a new one that isn't going to make trouble for israel.
I wonder if Mubarak has told the US to go screw themselves and that he won't leave until September?
'It's me until September or chaos followed by the Muslim Brotherhood. Your call'
(yawn)....I haven't watched one second of US news on this topic, yet I'm thoroughly bored with the silly attempts to tie the Muslim Brotherhood to a sinister agenda. How does anyone know what the MB is thinking or what its motivation(s) are?
study the history of the movement. Hamas and Hezbollah terririst groups are offshoots of the muslim brotherhood. they also support shaqria law and worldwide jihad. Bin Laden was mentored by the second highest ranking member in the brotherhood . i could go on but check it out yourself.
Bin Laden was "mentored" by the CIA as well.
http://www.fromthewilderness.com/free/ww3/08_01_98_osama_bin_laden.html
yes he was, but that doesnt give a pass to the muslim brotherhood, they are still bad guys
Next you'll be saying; "Don't vote for Obama, Democrats are segregationists, just look at FDR, George Wallace & Bull Connor".
In this I direct you to this comment from CNN's Amanpour regarding Muslim Brotherhood's comments on upcoming national elections .... Heck, even George Wallace never went this far, until the end of his life that is.
I spoke by phone to Muslim Brotherhood leadership: says it will not field any presidential candidates. Backs a civil democratic state.
MB: Born of British intelligence in the 1920s.
Apartheid Israel: born of white imperialism in 1947.
Which has done more damage to the world?
They are certainly being painted as the bogy man of the current situation.
I heard on BBC news that if they got into government they would tear up the peace treaty with Israel.
It's hard to know what is fact and what is propaganda though these days.
If your not clear on where the MB stands and what the Egyptian people understand and want, this may clear things up.
Rantings of a Sandmonkey, Egyptian blogger
http://www.sandmonkey.org/2011/02/03/egypt-right-now/
Drag, thanks for the interesting link. I sent him an email wishing him luck along with telling him about ZH.
It's a brotherhood that's more than Muslim
http://www.historycommons.org/entity.jsp?entity=uk_secret_intelligence_s...
Try checking out "caliphate". This has been the Muslims agenda for ages.
Really. Over a billion Muslims in the world, and ALL of them wish to impose caliphate? I doubt it - that's one broad brush you paint with, FD.
There are more Islamofascists than moderates, besides the fanatics force the rest to go along. They control the women and the men can do whatever they like. And YES they want the entire world to be Islamic. You'd better wake up because it's happening right here in the good ol' USSA. Sharia is a creeping weed.
Yo Hannity, who you gonna have on the show tonight?
pods
Answer this for me: Do you honestly, in your heart of hearts, believe that the 1.5 billion Muslims are going to take over the other 5.4 billion of us and force us all to live under Sharia Law?
I mean, honestly, look at those numbers. Assuming that every single Muslim wants the rest of the world to convert and live under Sharia Law, they're out numbered at least 3 to one. What you are doing is fanning the flames of irrational fear.
If you do believe what you say, I would suggest going down to your local Mosque and meeting a few Muslim people face to face. Have a meal with them. See what they're really all about. However, IF you don't actually believe this, but say it to further an agenda, you are the cancerous pond-scum that expedites the corrosion of everything that was once great about our country.
DownRodeo, I think you have got him there, what rational person could believe these mad scenarios, having said that; I don't think the Egyptians are going to make it this time, too many "Important" people want the status quo, if they can't have Mubarak then they want another Mubarak, the name can change but the reality must stay the same, the Gaza blockade must remain.
What I've read about the Vice President, Suleiman today on the XOM page is that he enjoys personally participating in torture sessions, if Obama and Bibi can get this fellow into power a lot of people are going to feel his wrath, will it succeed in destroying the yearning for a better life among the masses of Egypt, some how I doubt it--- But when they come roaring back there will be fire in their nostrils and no more Mr. nice guy!
Let's see: caliphate=bad
White imperialist apartheid state whose sole existence is to steal land from Arabs and kill them = good.
A tad bit simplistic but not too far off the mark.
** (2 stars for you)
You could look it up, my search took 0.61 seconds. E.g. following for starters:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muslim_Brotherhood
Could also go to their "official English website" but that would be sanitized from real objectives.
A peaceful transition of power via the elections in September seems preferable to an abrupt defenestration of the long-standing dictator. Western goverments and media seem to be hell bent on dumping Mubarak now, but so do the enemies of the west like Iran; this doesn't make sense. And finally, if Mubarak goes now, then what? The current US administration is incompetent and this is the biggest fuck up since the Gulf oil spill.
It seems to me the West waited to see which way the wind would blow before getting behind it.
While it is tempting to point out the strange alliances (i.e., US and Iran) this position has uncovered, what's left unsaid is why whatever government Egypt settles upon is any of the US (and the West)'s business.
To me it is beyond disingenuous for the US to voice a desire for peace or stability. They lost that battle the second they funded/interefered with the current regime.
The US owners want the status quo in any form to protect Israel which directs US foreign policy. Obama is a lying hypocrite when he talks about supporting the Egyptian people, and, even worse, a republican president would probably have sent military assistance to Murburak immediately. The US elite care for neither the people of the US nor the people of Egypt. Fuck this farce of a democracy.
I hear from my wife (who speaks Arabic and resided in Yemen for a stretch) that MB isn't a force of evil. Word on the street (from a native written blog) is the Egyptian people are just fed up with the US-ification of the Middle East. And from what facts I do know about our presence there, I can't blame them.
This is what I have been able to discern as well, although you have a much better source than me!
I'm not ruling out a sinister agenda for MB, but it seems unlikely given the strong show of solidarity between Muslims and Christians in December. The more I read and try to understand, the more this revolution appears to be a popular uprising against corrupt Western influence.
All political groups have a sinister agenda to someone, so yeah I'm in the same boat. And if this agenda is to have at it with Israel, well I'm still a bit torn. I don't have the requisite experience to endorse (or oppose) Antisemitism, but the faces I see behind some of the greatest evil's today, and the holy unanimous mythological vilification of the arch-Führer-anti-Semite, well I just have to take a step back.
Take it for what you will, and understand that Libertarian is my closest brand politically, but I've always regarded Hitler as the greatest politician of all time.
Personally I would go for Staline as the best politician ever. He survived the world
war II as well. Hitler had to resign before the end. Not much of a good politician
if you ask me. LOL
Joking ...I just hope that you'll reconsider thinking about Hitler in a good way.
This man was crazy and he profit from the previous crash (1929) to try to establish
a new order with the help of the German people. It did it in the worst possible
way ever IMO.
Oh I most certainly don't think of him in a good way; he's a politician. Trouble is I don't think we learned any lessons about how he accomplished what he did. I work for a German company. Germans are some of the most no-nonsense, diligent and intelligent people I know - that they fell for Hitler's agenda should give closer scrutiny to the political question. Instead, we elevate Hitler to demonic status and seem to dismiss his following as being somehow brainwashed by superhuman forces. Much of what sickens me about US nationalism rings eerily similar to Nazi Germany.
Exactly. And here in the US we'll get a healthy dose of it this weekend with the Super Bowl. Flag waving, flyovers, parachuters, .... and, of course, the endless military recruiting ads on television.
What's worse, the line between sports, news, and politics is so blurry now so as to make it unrecognizable. That's the main reason I gave up the idiot box.
Organized crime > odds-makers > sports > opiate of the masses > USA
dupe
trip
Read "Obedience to Authority", by Stanley Milgram
Divide to conquer is the goal.
The US use the same method against Europe with massive african immigration and islamisation.
And with Bernanke and the Fed of course.
That is an interesting theory.
Not just Egyptians, speak plainly to young Saudis not from the royal family if you ever have a chance, you'll get the similar sentiment. This is a revolt against the Empire, not just Mubarak. Military projection can hold this together for some time, but not much longer. Soviet Union being in a similar situation couldn't get hold of the Eastern Europe despite its miltary might.
The "right" horse could only be defined in oil and related regional dynamics. We seem pretty flexible about the human rights thing, all in all.
We mustn't allow Muslims to control that--their own--region.
Apparently, Muslim oil don't work too good.
Which is too bad, since we could just leave the entire Middle East to them and cut out both the military/foreign aid expenses and various costs of The War on Terror, since they would no longer have anything to hate us about (al Qaeda has been quite clear on this point, if you can't see it intuitively.)
They could all go Muslim if they like. Just like Iran, which remains a potent producer and exporter of oil.
Yeah, too bad we just couldn't count on good oil if they were all Muslims.
Sometimes I wonder just whom it benefits to keep things the financially insane and morally Machiavellian way they are.
It's a good thing the taxpayers pay every single penny of the costs.
interesting. why did they turn the live feed back on? hmmm....
Contrary to popular demand...... America is not on the verge of collapse as per this blogger. Interesting points at least:
http://seekingalpha.com/instablog/475264-tim-ayles/134563-debunking-myth...
I don't know man, something doesn't seem right about that guy's arguments. He compares the worthlessness of paper fiat to the worthlessness of oil as a "sticky goo that could ruin the environment if it ends up in the wrong place". Then later he acknowledges that crude gains value when oil companies refine it. His analogy breaks down when he neglects to point out that while you can substitute anything for fiat currency, it isn't as if you can just substitute ammonia or peat moss for crude oil.
Here is another example of his misleading thought process:
This is false. This 180 billion per year is only true of the snapshot instant in time where he got these numbers. In order for the 180 billion per year figure to continue to be true, either China's GDP would have to drop by a small percentage every year or the GDP in the USA would have to increase by a slight percentage every year. In just the second iteration of that calculation, China gains 205 billion on the US. It is true that the math doesn't lie, but the same cannot be said for the author.
He seems to say that all of the doom and gloom can't happen because it's impossible, which is circular reasoning. It kind of seemed like a load of crap to me. However, that is just one opinion, kind of like the article.
He may be right, who knows, maybe the ponzi will go on forever. However, his arguments have not convinced me that such is the case.
Most addicts have enablers worse than the cause of the addiction. He is possibly selling to a large and burgeoning market addicted to the ponzi. The drug business like all sensory control mechanisms hinge on distribution.
Read it. Too bad the author's normalcy bias prevents him from seeing current events unfolding in front of his eyes. Fail.
Lowlight (paraphrasing): 'global fiat can't/won't fail because it's never failed before, being new and all'.
Riiiiiiight... and did you kiss your Bernokio poster when you entered your cubicle this morning?
Real question is, are riots going to spread to next countries. If it is true, than I guess my eem and es put options won't finish worthless.
Today we are all Egyptians! http://www.entendance.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=796&p=15216#p15161
I hope everyone here is taking notes (I promise our government is). Like a real time case study. We'll look just like that within 9 months is my best guess.
Radio Zero returns on ham radios bitchez!
Oil is down big time on that very moment. This mean only one thing IMO. Peace will be restored soon in Egypt (ie Mubarak will finish its mandate probably).
Nat gas is starting a run up also. Not related at all to Egypt. Its just that I'm tracking UNG and the Intraday Charts looks good.
When your President / Dictator's name is Hose-me, what did you really think would happen?
He'll be out eventually unless he does a Mugabe ... When you are in your 80s and have ruled by imperium for decades, what do you really have to lose except a tarnished legacy? The blood of innocents will be shed before that is allowed to happen.
These protesters have to get away from this Tahrir square and walk down to the Presidential Palace and the Interior Ministry - "the Bastille" and overwhelm the army like a wave of zombies and burn the mothers down.
The unseen clerics in the background understand this is the first inning of a double header. No doubt the Mubarak/Obama regime will round up a ton of trouble makers, but a lot of "normal" folks will be questioning government authority - the US - forever and always going forward.
Thinking the same thing. Unless they overwhelm the army at the Presidential Palace, these people are wasting their time.
This Tahrir Square deal is demonstration management 101. It is no different than the LA or Toronto police creating official "demonstration zones" for citywide protests at G20 meetings and the democratic convention.
The demonstrators are just playing into the hands of the CIA's proxy VP Suleiman character. The West is praying for six months to re-engineer a new regime of repression.
Found at GlobalResearch:
On The Globalisation of Police Repression and the techniques of Political Control used by Western democracies against protesters. Genoa Police Unit Trained by U.S. Sheriffs. The Genoa Experience, eyewitness report by Andrew Arendt Wegerif.
Well, if you don't have a plan, a clear objective, you won't get there.
"I don't want X" is not a plan. "I want Z" is.
What is Z, then? Democracy, Theocracy, Aristocracy, Anarchy? Right now it is all this and more, just ask the crowd. Some want peace and comfort, others want war against neighbors...
The crowd can protest together but can't *act* together. That is why Mubarak is holding his position, regardless if one likes him or not.
It would be intersting if a voluntary society took place of the dictatorship. Is it possible to happen in Egypt? Hard to tell at this point, but this would be ideal if something of the sort took form. Possible? Yes. Probable? Nope.
Mullin, chairman of joint chiefs of staff, said on Al Jazeera that the United States military stands ready. I mean, what the fuck does this mean? I smell Israhole.
Current map of "friendlies" could be changing. Ohh to be a fly on the wall for conversations with U.S. and Israhell..
George Galloway and a PressTV correspondent said it best: If true change is to come, the peple need to take control of the media outlets, state buildings and services and win the backing of their military. Right? Seems like a waste of 10 days of effort and violence.
http://www.presstv.ir/detail/162927.html
I agree.. The West in more concerned with looking like supporters of the people than the hand directing the outcome.
I'm quite certain they feel, regardless of the outcome, they will come in and eventially (fairly soon) be able to control media and information enough to control the so called democracy that will be in place.
Ironic comment coming from Iran whose Islamic revolution was itself possibly facilitated but definitely supported by western globalist intelligence assets.
http://www.hirhome.com/iraniraq/savak.htm
http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?196935-Iran-Was-Khomeini-CIA
When the security apparatchiks realize that backing the regime makes no sense and they have to do something to save their skins, they'll go after Mubarak. The turing point should be when the media are no longer restricted access to the revolution.
Al Jazeera has become a boring recital of the days' news without any video feed to make sense of it, and have been totally wrong on their assumptions. At least the announcer during the day makes viewing impossibly boring.
No video feed? I believe I am watching a live feed right now. Unlinke CNN, Al Jazeera would have a hard time renting a hotel room large enough to stage one million plus in the streets.
I agree though that once the security apparatchiks realize the futile nature of backing a dictatorial thug the overthrow will be finalized.
I basically stopped watching Jazeera when they lost the story.
When the former security are looking at a lifetime in prison or facing a firing squad, and the only way to rescue themselves for years of predations, killing an old man will not seem so bad if they can manage to save face.
Al Jazeera has become a boring recital of the days' news without any video feed to make sense of it
Do you need the television on to read the newspaper too?
'Hank' Mubarak...lol
So the fall-back for exile is AIG?
http://markalmondoxford.blogspot.com/2011/02/ghost-of-regime-change-past...
Doesn't it make the popluation curious why the U.S. has so much influence on Egyptian politics? It should bother every country in the world that a sovereign nation will have a foreign entity like the U.S. make demands about leadership and even control the results.
Most people don't have the mental capacity to analyze events impartially and intuitively. They know the US is involved and has been involved all over the world, and because it's been true in the past, it's accepted as an inevitability. The underlying truth is, as you allude to, shocking. We have the Internet to thank for such revelations finally coming to light. Can you imagine if everyone's source of news was still newspapers controlled by just a few men?
A billion dollars a year (US to Egypt "aid") does have effect.
The current story on BBC news 24 is that many Europeans and Americans are now being picked up at random by Egyptian security forces and interrogated.
The western media is now very very much against the current regime which suggests that western governments also share that view.
I wouldn't go that far.
Rumor has it that The Rocket and The Big Unit have been hired by the anti-government protesters to teach them how to throw rocks more effectively.
Did someone just say "Rock Fight"???
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yN7_cCjEMes
Did someone just say "Rock Fight"???
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yN7_cCjEMes
Paid for out of some unused US stimulus monies, no doubt.
This is going to get a lot worse than it is right now. This is what the beginning of a civil war looks like and it has more to do with food and mouths to feed than financial reforms and who runs Egypt. The fact is not enough food + too many mouths = soylent green is people.
I'm waiting for a story to pop up in a month about a long pig meat dealer because human history's dirty secret of survival is we have eaten one another to survive.
Besides look at how the riots are going. People are going for broke in this. Since it's friday, the mosques are out for the day and the mosques are serving as the rally points for protestor initatives (anti and pro).
Take notes people, this isn't too far away for most of you either. Another 50% price increase in food stuff and you will be seeing this in Winnipeg, Chicago, Seattle as well. With IPv6 being crammed out there in the next week, the ability to fully monitor and cap communications is officially do-able. So understand where your church, town hall or meeting place is before hand.
Muslims know where it is. Do you know where it is? Because it won't be online, or by cell phone, or land line.
The subject of human needs came up on Al Jazeera. I was wondering about that myself. One million people standing in freedom square and suddenly you get this urge. Now what? No porta potties?
You think people are just throwing rocks? Think simpler...like chimpanzees at a zoo.
They're using the side streets.
I thought about it Tyler. You are right. However, they must stay the course and not leave the square. They must stay there and not move. They must remain there. They have gone too far now to quit now. I thought about them marching on the palace but I think it would be much better to stay put where they are. They must not leave now.
If the protesters start getting hungry they will go home? No if they start getting hungry it will turn into a real revolution. An organisation like the Muslim Brotherhood (as an example) will take control of it and government buildings will be stormed. Right now the protesters are just milling around chanting under the watch of army machine guns.
I pity the fool that tries to inflict Sharia law on me. I will die first! But I will take as many of those bastards with me that I can.
Why does Bill Gross sound like a whiny bitch when he talks?
Did someone lose money with him?
Or did he get kicked in the balls when he was younger?
That analysis is absolutely absurd. The longer they sit in the square, the less the economy functions. The less that poor economy functions, the worse the financial situation, ad infinitum. This is tipping downward, out of Mubarak's control, not in his favor.
Sometimes people just need food. If their belly rumbles... so will they!
Anderson (JFC-JJC) Copper and Erin Burnett get warm meals and fresh water.
They are fighting for free humanity!
I hope but doubt that you are right... Mubarak is not allowing the banks, etc. to function because he knows this favors him, that people have to eat, etc. and this will wear them down.
Real revolution can no longer be fought through demonstrations and calls for new leadership. It can not be solved through a "vote". Real revolution must be fought through the use of commerce to starve government by not paying taxes, creating black markets and refusing to participate in the military or police forces.
The establishment of new monetary substitutes that are not controlled by central banks, the sale of food and energy outside of government control and dictates.
You change the governing structure by starving it to death. It requires organization, it requires sedition, but it does not require violence or confrontation.
All governments are small minorities of elites that require the population follow a set of rules. They require people to enforce said rules. When these two actions stop, the elites become exposed and revolution can succeed.
Bingo.
Absolutely right.
CIA seems to have learned a lesson or two from the Iranian Revolution, plus Egypt is too important to be allowed to decide its destiny for itself. And it's not about Egypt by itself, rather Saudi Arabia and Israel, Israel even to a lesser extent as it is matter of a moderate strategic significance and extreme diplomatic annoyance. Saudi Arabia on the other hand, is the real key, once Saudi monarchy goes, the reserve status of the dollar would automatically follow.
Now that will be the WTC7 to look for....
.
I want the people of Egypt to win but if the Muslim brotherhood takes over it will be disaster for all the people of the Middle East. A great war will be guaranteed.
That Muslim Brotherhood news flash was a joke: "Muslim Brotherhood would void peace treaty with Israel."
1. Duh.
2. How did the last war work out between Israel and Egypt?
You mean the one in which Apartheid Israel ran away, defeated, kicking and screaming to Uncle Sam insisting upon more welfare checks?
Ever since the oil was discovered in the Middle East, there was no peace. The youth bulge only ensures that it will be the case in the future.
Too right. M.E. is full angry unemployed young men -- excess population.
History is the story of the same problems throughout the world, over and over.
removed
Muslim Brotherhood dates from the 1930s or earlier, it's already entrenched and perhaps dominant.
People in the M.E. care only about their countries, not the US, and we are the same. They'll do what they have to. We must do what we have to.
The people in that square in Cairo are in their own country now, a free and independent Egypt. Within that small area, they are free and liberty reigns supreme.
Hey Egyptians.. If you want to seriously change some things,
shutdown Suez..
Protestors have to eat. Right. Isn't that the underlying reason they are protesting? They took to the streets because the status quo was intolerable.
Just because everything has to go back to "normal" to regain whatever degree of functionality their system had before, doesn't mean everything will go back to "normal". There is literally nothing physically stopping them from simply burning everything down and then starting to eat each other.
I just found this on YouTube, hadn't seen it before... they say it was an American Diplomatic Vehicle.. but I haven't been able to find anything confirming it... it's fucked up though.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_cWOK0Lfh7w&feature=topvideos&skipcontrin...
Mubarak knows that if he just waits that time will allow the people to burn out and he can take power back. Egypt is the lynch pin and the rest of the Arab middleeast knows it. If the demonstrators manage to topple Mubarak (essentially the most powerful force in the region), then it will give even more power to the other demonstrators to oust their leaders.
You know, you probably meant to use the word linchpin, as in "something that serves to hold together the elements of a situation", but maybe lynch pin works just as well considering the current and possible events in Egypt.
If that was the Egyptian's D-Day, maybe somebody ought to dust off the other press release Eisenhower had in his pocket on June 6, 1944.
http://www.investorsinsight.com/blogs/john_mauldins_outside_the_box/archive/2011/02/03/intelligence-guidance-the-situation-in-egypt.aspx