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Wells' Imploding Loan Portfolio

Tyler Durden's picture





 

The fine folks over at WLMLab Bank Loan Performance have done a great job at updating FDIC loan data by various banks. Some of their conclusions:

Yet the most significant observations is the ticking time bomb that is Wells Fargo's 1-4 Family 90+ past due loans.

WFC's Construction & Development portfolio is also on the verge of implosion.

Conveniently, these loans are low on Non-Accrual rates, meaning that net interest income is not currently affected (and leading to a falsely high EPS number), yet once everything hits the fan, the bank will be forced to charge off a staggering amount of debt at much higher principal amounts. Perhaps any and all rumors about WFC's viability should be evaluated very carefully going forward.

 


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Thu, 09/03/2009 - 18:19 | Link to Comment Anonymous
Thu, 09/03/2009 - 19:18 | Link to Comment Anonymous
Thu, 09/03/2009 - 22:08 | Link to Comment orange juice
orange juice's picture

I'm sure that added to the onslaught but if you look at the quarter by quarter analysis it doesn't really indicate anything extraordinary in terms of % change, obviously 08Q3 was bad. I think that universally it was bad and it would be hard to draw a direct line..... obviously the number of loans increases (because of the takeover) but the percent change isn't significantly higher.

 

Of material interest is the things that aren't being shown like the low delinquency rates for the Commercial loans and Home Equity loans (as an example of items we aren't seeing yet).  I would think that with such a high rate of delinquency you would have correspondingly higher delinquency rates in HELOC's or CRE.

Fri, 09/04/2009 - 09:46 | Link to Comment Anonymous
Thu, 09/03/2009 - 18:21 | Link to Comment Anonymous
Thu, 09/03/2009 - 18:42 | Link to Comment Anonymous
Thu, 09/03/2009 - 18:57 | Link to Comment Kelly
Kelly's picture

Silly wabbit, tricks are for banks.

Thu, 09/03/2009 - 19:52 | Link to Comment bonddude
bonddude's picture

Thought i just read a judge in Fla is allowing mbs holders to foreclose. Anyone?

Thu, 09/03/2009 - 19:53 | Link to Comment Anonymous
Thu, 09/03/2009 - 20:30 | Link to Comment 3greenlights
3greenlights's picture

Tell your BIL that Arizona HR 1271, which goes into effect Sept 30th, empowers the lender to send a T-1000 Terminator to collect. No more "toss the house keys to Ken Lewis and walk."

http://www.azleg.state.az.us/FormatDocument.asp?inDoc=/ars/33/00814.htm&Title=33&DocType=ARS

 

http://www.housingwire.com/2009/07/27/lenders-realtors-divided-on-arizona-foreclosure-law/

Thu, 09/03/2009 - 22:04 | Link to Comment Anonymous
Fri, 09/04/2009 - 13:14 | Link to Comment Rusty Shorts
Rusty Shorts's picture

STATE OF MINNESOTA

COUNTY OF SCOTT

TOWNSHIP OF CREDIT RIVER

 

JUSTICE MARTIN V. MAHONEY

                                 First National Bank of Montgomery,                                              Plaintiff                                    vs                                Jerome Daly,                                        Defendant

JUDGMENT AND DECREE

The above entitled action came on before the Court and a Jury of 12 on December 7, 1968 at 10:00 am.   Plaintiff appeared by its President Lawrence V. Morgan and was represented by its Counsel, R. Mellby. Defendant appeared on his own behalf.

A Jury of Talesmen were called, impaneled and sworn to try the issues in the Case. Lawrence V. Morgan was the only witness called for Plaintiff and Defendant testified as the only witness in his own behalf.

Plaintiff brought this as a Common Law action for the recovery of the possession of Lot 19 Fairview Beach, Scott County, Minn. Plaintiff claimed title to the Real Property in question by foreclosure of a Note and Mortgage Deed dated May 8, 1964 which Plaintiff claimed was in default at the time foreclosure proceedings were started.

Defendant appeared and answered that the Plaintiff created the money and credit upon its own books by bookkeeping entry as the consideration for the Note and Mortgage of May 8, 1964 and alleged failure of the consideration for the Mortgage Deed and alleged that the Sheriff's sale passed no title to plaintiff.

The issues tried to the Jury were whether there was a lawful consideration and whether Defendant had waived his rights to complain about the consideration having paid on the Note for almost 3 years.

Mr. Morgan admitted that all of the money or credit which was used as a consideration was created upon their books, that this was standard banking practice exercised by their bank in combination with the Federal Reserve Bank of Minneapolis, another private Bank, further that he knew of no United States Statute or Law that gave the Plaintiff the authority to do this. Plaintiff further claimed that Defendant by using the ledger book created credit and by paying on the Note and Mortgage waived any right to complain about the Consideration and that the Defendant was estopped from doing so.

At 12:15 on December 7, 1968 the Jury returned a unanimous verdict for the Defendant.

Now therefore, by virtue of the authority vested in me pursuant to the Declaration of Independence, the Northwest Ordinance of 1787, the Constitution of United States and the Constitution and the laws of the State of Minnesota not inconsistent therewith ;

IT IS HEREBY ORDERED, ADJUDGED AND DECREED:

1.That the Plaintiff is not entitled to recover the possession of Lot 19, Fairview Beach, Scott County, Minnesota according to the Plat thereof on file in the Register of Deeds office.

2.That because of failure of a lawful consideration the Note and Mortgage dated May 8, 1964 are null and void.

3.That the Sheriff's sale of the above described premises held on June 26, 1967 is null and void, of no effect.

4.That the Plaintiff has no right title or interest in said premises or lien thereon as is above described.

5.That any provision in the Minnesota Constitution and any Minnesota Statute binding the jurisdiction of this Court is repugnant to the Constitution of the United States and to the Bill of Rights of the Minnesota Constitution and is null and void and that this Court has jurisdiction to render complete Justice in this Cause.

The following memorandum and any supplementary memorandum made and filed by this Court in support of this Judgment is hereby made a part hereof by reference.

BY THE COURT

Dated December 9, 1968

Justice MARTIN V. MAHONEY

Credit River Township

Scott County, Minnesota

MEMORANDUM

The issues in this case were simple. There was no material dispute of the facts for the Jury to resolve.

Plaintiff admitted that it, in combination with the Federal Reserve Bank of Minneapolis, which are for all practical purposes, because of their interlocking activity and practices, and both being Banking Institutions Incorporated under the Laws of the United States, are in the Law to be treated as one and the same Bank, did create the entire $14,000.00 in money or credit upon its own books by bookkeeping entry. That this was the Consideration used to support the Note dated May 8, 1964 and the Mortgage of the same date. The money and credit first came into existence when they created it. Mr. Morgan admitted that no United States Law Statute existed which gave him the right to do this. A lawful consideration must exist and be tendered to support the Note. See Ansheuser-Busch Brewing Company v. Emma Mason, 44 Minn. 318, 46 N.W. 558.   The Jury found that there was no consideration and I agree.   Only God can create something of value out of nothing.

Even if Defendant could be charged with waiver or estoppel as a matter of Law this is no defense to the Plaintiff. The Law leaves wrongdoers where it finds them. See sections 50, 51 and 52 of Am Jur 2nd "Actions" on page 584 – "no action will lie to recover on a claim based upon, or in any manner depending upon, a fraudulent, illegal, or immoral transaction or contract to which Plaintiff was a party."

Plaintiff's act of creating credit is not authorized by the Constitution and Laws of the United States, is unconstitutional and void, and is not a lawful consideration in the eyes of the Law to support any thing or upon which any lawful right can be built.

Nothing in the Constitution of the United States limits the jurisdiction of this Court, which is one of original Jurisdiction with right of trial by Jury guaranteed. This is a Common Law action. Minnesota cannot limit or impair the power of this Court to render Complete Justice between the parties.  Any provisions in the Constitution and laws of Minnesota which attempt to do so is repugnant to the Constitution of the United States and void.  No question as to the Jurisdiction of this Court was raised by either party at the trial. Both parties were given complete liberty to submit any and all facts to the Jury, at least in so far as they saw fit.

No complaint was made by Plaintiff that Plaintiff did not receive a fair trial. From the admissions made by Mr. Morgan the path of duty was direct and clear for the Jury.  Their Verdict could not reasonably been otherwise. Justice was rendered completely and without denial, promptly and without delay, freely and without purchase, conformable to the laws in this Court of December 7, 1968.

BY THE COURT

   December 9, 1968

Justice Martin V. Mahoney

Credit River Township

Scott County, Minnesota.

Thu, 09/03/2009 - 21:29 | Link to Comment Anonymous
Fri, 09/04/2009 - 01:00 | Link to Comment George the baby...
George the baby crusher's picture

If he didn't have to pay you would start the whole contactual obligation collapse.  Human society is based on contactual obligations. ei. Marriage, divorce, social contracts and of course your financial obligation. In other words, another lender would take over your friends loan so that he can continue to honor his obligations and society can continue and the whole world rotates another day.

Fri, 09/04/2009 - 03:30 | Link to Comment Arm
Arm's picture

No chance of a write-off.  The loans go to the estate of the bank in foreclosure.  The creditors will forclose on him

Fri, 09/04/2009 - 05:01 | Link to Comment ToNYC
ToNYC's picture

Your point is as short-sighted as a Geithner solution. There will be liens that will be saisfied or sued for and a successor creditor if need be will pick up that property at a discount and get clean title. Kato ain't living in OJ's for years. He had all the staying power of a pet whose master has departed.

Fri, 09/04/2009 - 22:56 | Link to Comment John Self
John Self's picture

I don't know.  Sure, he's not living there forever.  But every month that passes, the BIL should be saving the amount that he'd otherwise be paying on his mortgage.  9 months so far, hell, that'd be a nice chunk of change.  If he has the discipline to save it (and probably not if he got into that situation in the first place), he could conceivably save enough to buy a decent new place in cash before the banks get their act together.

Moral?  Maybe, maybe not.  I wouldn't do it, but maybe others could make it fit with their moral code.  Regardless, I don't think the point was really about staying put forever.

Thu, 09/03/2009 - 18:23 | Link to Comment Anonymous
Thu, 09/03/2009 - 18:41 | Link to Comment deadhead
deadhead's picture

as I understand it, the amendments earlier this year in re FASB FAS 157 ("mark to market") gave accounting firms significantly more protection in covering their asses when reviewing what a bank says its assets are worth.  Frankly, you will not see "real accounting" prior to the end of this year.

Thu, 09/03/2009 - 19:19 | Link to Comment ghostfaceinvestah
ghostfaceinvestah's picture

See my note below - they already did write a lot of this off with a purchase adjustment.  JPM did the same thing with the WM portfolio.

Thu, 09/03/2009 - 18:23 | Link to Comment Veteran
Veteran's picture

Same shit different day. Those dumb fucks (TurboTax Timmy, Heli Ben, Neck Fat Summers, and the Messiah), could have paid off every mortgage in America. . . 

Thu, 09/03/2009 - 19:54 | Link to Comment MsCreant
MsCreant's picture

Amen. I junk whoever junked you.

Thu, 09/03/2009 - 20:14 | Link to Comment Missing_Link
Missing_Link's picture

Let me play devil's advocate.

Wouldn't that just be rewarding failure?  It's bad enough that we had to bail out failed banks; do we really have to bail out failed homeowners too?

Why bail out the Jamaican immigrant who was in the middle of flipping 5 condos in NYC when the subprime collapse happened?

I bought a home well within my budget.  Why should my tax dollars pay for those who didn't?

Thu, 09/03/2009 - 20:48 | Link to Comment Anonymous
Thu, 09/03/2009 - 21:14 | Link to Comment Anonymous
Thu, 09/03/2009 - 21:18 | Link to Comment Anonymous
Thu, 09/03/2009 - 21:31 | Link to Comment MsCreant
MsCreant's picture

Hi There Devil's Advocate,

I hear you loud and clear. Because of my awareness of peak oil, starting in 2004, I focused and worked and paid off student loans (9% holy fuck), credit cards, and finally my home. Pulled out of the stock market in 06 because I "did not like what my money was supporting." Saved me the 40% haircut everyone else took. So yeah, every other day I feel like a moron for cleaning up my act and I wanna just get all my credit cards together and do something rash and stick it to them. Moral Hazard is like that.

However, lets go back to that post.

Same shit different day.  Amen, I am so tired of this crap and I am amazed at how long it has gone on.

Those dumb fucks (TurboTax Timmy, Heli Ben, Neck Fat Summers, and the Messiah), could have paid off every mortgage in America. . . I'd resent this, but out of solutions a)dumb and b)dumber, at least printing money to pay those mortgages would have made everyone whole... EVEN THE DERRIVATIVES MARKET. I am open to debate that I am wrong on this. But we would not be perched on the precipice of the margin call from hell, just now. We would not be losing as many jobs and deflating, just now. You get the idea.

Now, demon attourney, regarding etiquette, I'd only junk things that are like spam, stuff unrelated to the thread at all that is fucktarded, kill it before it grows, kinda weird. This post did not strike me as something to flag as garbage, based on those criteria.

In sum, I agree that our tax dollars should not go to those mortgages, however, given that they have gone to banksters, I think it would have been an improvemnent to go to home owners.

Thu, 09/03/2009 - 22:38 | Link to Comment agrotera
agrotera's picture

The really great thing would be for Sarbanes-Oxley to be used to throw in jail the heads of the TBTF since they signed off and made fortunes off of getting their crimes legalized, then pushing the limit, sold crap that they called AAA, then sold credit default swaps on top of it all...

1) Dedicate half of one of the least populated states for a new penitentiary to house the thousands of crooks that brought us the nuclear winter we are living though.

2)...ABOLISH THE FED MACHINE.

3) Use anti-trust laws to break up the "toobigtofail" ...

[and believe me, Goldman Sachs and Morgan would have been OUT if they didn't win the Lehman bet, get free money through AIG's backdoor, a ban on short selling, and bank holding status to keep them afloat til the "secret Sat. meeting" where Paulson passed out money to his friends.  (ALL THE WHILE, BOTH FIRMS HAD THEIR PR PEOPLE OUT IN FULL FORCE CLAIMING THAT THEY DIDNT NEED THE MONEY...HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH)]

4) HELP of some sort for all US citizens and many countries around the world since every citizen is effected by this fraud...

 

BOTTOM LINE WE MIGHT HAVE BEEN ALMOST IN THE HOLE AS MUCH AS WE ARE NOW, BUT IT WOULD HAVE BEEN FOR RIGHTEOUS REASONS INSTEAD OF THIEVERY--THE WHOLE WORLD KNOWS WHAT CRIME IS GOING ON HERE IN AMERICA, AND IT IS HIGH TIME WE CALL BACK THE STOLEN MONEY, TAKE APART THE TOOBIGTOFAIL, ABOLISH THE FED, AND SEND IN A NEW FRESH GROUP OF UNPURCHASED ELECTED OFFICIALS TO WASHINGTON WHO WILL LEGISLATE ON BEHALF OF THE PEOPLE INSTEAD OF ON BEHALF OF THE FED MACHINE.

Thu, 09/03/2009 - 22:58 | Link to Comment Anonymous
Thu, 09/03/2009 - 23:40 | Link to Comment Sqworl
Sqworl's picture

LOL..S&P offices looks like the set of Mad Men..lol

Fri, 09/04/2009 - 02:34 | Link to Comment Anonymous
Thu, 09/03/2009 - 21:59 | Link to Comment Anonymous
Thu, 09/03/2009 - 22:13 | Link to Comment Anonymous
Thu, 09/03/2009 - 18:23 | Link to Comment leathaface
leathaface's picture

Too big to fail.  unfortunately, they will continue to get bailed out

Thu, 09/03/2009 - 18:24 | Link to Comment Ben_the_Bald
Ben_the_Bald's picture

Wells Fargo's Tight Lips Drag on Shares

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB125191978384280681.html

Thu, 09/03/2009 - 18:25 | Link to Comment deadhead
deadhead's picture

Whether one agrees with her or not, Meredith W. answered a Maria Bartoromo question many months ago (last spring I think) about which bank she would most avoid...answer was WFC.

Thu, 09/03/2009 - 18:26 | Link to Comment ghostfaceinvestah
ghostfaceinvestah's picture

Yes, but, most of these loans came from WB, and didn't they take some sort of accounting charge  when they booked them?  They are not non-accrual, they took a charge to face value.  JPM did the same thing with WM's loans.

Maybe an accountant can explain it better.  All I remember is WFC took a charge for these loans that makes them not show up as non-accruals, but they are effectively reserved for.  Some kind of purchase accounting adjustment.

Thu, 09/03/2009 - 18:28 | Link to Comment deadhead
deadhead's picture

ghost....I can't provide specifics nor do I understand all of the accounting, but what you say squares up directly with what I have read.

Thu, 09/03/2009 - 19:11 | Link to Comment ghostfaceinvestah
ghostfaceinvestah's picture

This is from the annual report below.  So for the 93.9B of "high risk" loans (mostly option arms), they took a write down of $37.2B.  So basically they reduced the basis of their WB purchase.  If 37.2B of these loans are non-collectible, it doesn't matter, they are already written off.  Likewise, they don't show up as non-accruals, since they are already written off.

Not to defend WFC's balance sheet, as others pointed out, I think they are a bit light on the HELOC charge offs, but on the WB stuff, the writeoffs they took at purchase were in line with what JPM took on WM (which, btw, were about 2X what WM had reserved for).

"   We have significantly strengthened the balance sheet and future earnings stream of the new Wells Fargo. This included the following actions:

  $37.2 billion of credit write-downs taken at December 31, 2008, through purchase accounting adjustments on $93.9 billion of high-risk loans in Wachovia’s loan portfolio    

Reduced the cost basis of the Wachovia securities portfolio by $9.6 billion, reflecting $2.4 billion of recognized losses in the fourth quarter and write-off of $7.2 billion of unrealized losses previously reflected in negative cumulative other comprehensive income"

 

 

Thu, 09/03/2009 - 19:32 | Link to Comment deadhead
deadhead's picture

thanks ghost....most of what i have read is that wfc has not even come close to reserving properly for losses.  that said, their cfo responded to this approx 6 weeks ago and insisted their loan loss reserves were appropriate.

Thu, 09/03/2009 - 23:45 | Link to Comment ghostfaceinvestah
ghostfaceinvestah's picture

No doubt.  As other posters have noted, where they are really going to get hit is their HELOCs.  Last I checked, those were grossly underreserved.  My point is just that the post misses the mark, concentrating on the first lien portfolio (not doubt the construction portfolio sucks - whose doesn't?).

I seem to remember WFC changing their methodology for HELOC charge-offs, pushing them out a month.  nice trick.  like someone 90 down is going to cure.  not likely.  but hey, push it out to 120, why not?

Fri, 09/04/2009 - 11:06 | Link to Comment Anonymous
Thu, 09/03/2009 - 19:38 | Link to Comment Anonymous
Thu, 09/03/2009 - 20:30 | Link to Comment Ducky
Ducky's picture

If the charge was mostly option arms then it does not cover waht was in the original post. The charts are for 1-4 family buildings and construction and development.

It seems like it was Bloomberg taht had an article talking about a FASB change for banks taht would require them to at least state how large their hold to maturity stuff was. It was not going to take effect until 2011 if memory serves. So if it is adopted then we have another year of ghosts on the balance sheets

Thu, 09/03/2009 - 23:24 | Link to Comment ghostfaceinvestah
ghostfaceinvestah's picture

Option ARMs are 1-4 family first liens.

Thu, 09/03/2009 - 21:38 | Link to Comment Anonymous
Thu, 09/03/2009 - 18:50 | Link to Comment CreditcalMass
CreditcalMass's picture

The real killer for Wells is their HELOC exposure on the west coast. They made aprox 80 billion in HELOC and MEWs out there, those are second lien loans, and they're worth absolutely nothing IMO.

Thu, 09/03/2009 - 19:47 | Link to Comment thegreatsatan
thegreatsatan's picture

I'd say thats pretty spot on. Wells is heavy in Cal RE, the heady days of the HomeATM are long behind us and most of those 3 and 5 year ARMs from the peak are about to adjust which should cause a good number of those clowns to default (well maybe after 18 months of free rent).

I live in CA in a pretty quiet beach town, and my place "doubled" in value during the peak of the bubble but I was smart enough not to touch any of that "equity". My neighbor on the other hand somehow picked up a Porsche, an RV, and a cabin up at Big Bear on a regional pilots salary.  The RV recently "disappeard" and I saw a Prius in the driveway the other day (talk about a downgrade). Also after 6 months on the market his house didn't sell either. I wonder if he would let me snag that cabin for .20 cents on the dollar.

Thu, 09/03/2009 - 20:14 | Link to Comment Argos
Argos's picture

Better hurry before it burns down

Thu, 09/03/2009 - 21:11 | Link to Comment Anonymous
Thu, 09/03/2009 - 21:16 | Link to Comment Anonymous
Thu, 09/03/2009 - 21:20 | Link to Comment Anonymous
Thu, 09/03/2009 - 21:33 | Link to Comment Anonymous
Fri, 09/04/2009 - 09:16 | Link to Comment Anonymous
Thu, 09/03/2009 - 19:24 | Link to Comment Miles Kendig
Miles Kendig's picture

At the time WFC took on WB the WB book was marked at a 23% total RE market loss for modeling.  Cannot speak to how WFC marked this book when it did take it on, however we are now at what 33% +/- with an easy 10 to go with the bulk of the book, CA, AZ, NV & FL now around 50%...

Thu, 09/03/2009 - 20:09 | Link to Comment KeyserSöze
KeyserSöze's picture

I remember specifically when Wachovia  FAILED and then had it "taken over" on the same press release.  They were given a 10B credit for the acqu.  That is why they took it...in other words (like many other IB) they are now given Loss Carry Forwards that could probably last another 5-7 years.....I am sure treasury has allocated for the shortfall in their budget....

Thu, 09/03/2009 - 20:52 | Link to Comment Anonymous
Thu, 09/03/2009 - 22:53 | Link to Comment reading
reading's picture

I am not sure I agree here.  Wells has always has a lot of crap on their books that has appeared under reserved.  There is an impression that they are above it all and didn't do those sorts of loans, however, that is simply misguided.  They did do something to account for a bunch of the crap that they acquired with Wachovia, however, not sure it covers the full extent here.  Will have to do some additional research on that.  The bottom line is Wells should be choking under then weight of their own HELOC portfolio let alone all their other stuff.

Thu, 09/03/2009 - 23:37 | Link to Comment ghostfaceinvestah
ghostfaceinvestah's picture

My point is, the guy who runs these numbers is some ex-tech guy who doesn't know how to read a bank's balance sheet.  he pulls these numbers from the FDIC, compares them to reserves, and says they are under-reserved.  I am saying that loan loss reserves are not the only accounting for delinquent loans.

WFC took a SOP 03-3 charge when they acquired WB.  On a book with UPB of 93.9B, they took a charge of 37.2B for principal write downs, 2.3B of pre-acquisition charge offs, and 2.5B of future interest they don't expect to collect.  That is 42B of future losses they have charged off, for loans that will show up as delinquent in the FDIC data, but for which a loss reserve will be not be established.

Fri, 09/04/2009 - 02:30 | Link to Comment Anonymous
Thu, 09/03/2009 - 18:29 | Link to Comment AN0NYM0US
AN0NYM0US's picture

in another era this could have been the stuff long weekends are made of - those heady days watching the Asian markets open on a Sunday night and futures tank - instead this is rally material

Thu, 09/03/2009 - 18:37 | Link to Comment nope-1004
nope-1004's picture

Uh, dude..... didn't you get the Green Shoots memo?

Thu, 09/03/2009 - 18:47 | Link to Comment walküre
walküre's picture

Never forget.

It could happen ANY weekend and the warnings may not come from Asia this time.

If liquidity is the issue and T auctions are doomed to fail, expect another major multi billion dollar withdrawal. The same kind that nobody saw coming, nobody investigates and nobody dares to ask where the money went. It was that event that took the breath out of the markets last year and caused the crash.

Liquidity, liquidity, liquidity...

Thu, 09/03/2009 - 19:25 | Link to Comment ghostfaceinvestah
ghostfaceinvestah's picture

Exactly, liquidity.

Did the markets tank after Lehman failed?  Not immediately.

Sept 15 - Lehman filed BK, S&P at 1192.

Sept 19 - S&P at 1255.

Sept 30 - S&P at 1166.

Oct 10 - S&P at 899.

So did Lehman cause the market to crash?  That is some delayed reaction, especially for a market that is supposedly "efficient".

Or maybe someone pulled some liquidity?

Thu, 09/03/2009 - 19:34 | Link to Comment Anonymous
Thu, 09/03/2009 - 19:57 | Link to Comment Anonymous
Thu, 09/03/2009 - 22:48 | Link to Comment agrotera
agrotera's picture

here is the link to the man who saw it happening real time, and reported it to Washington...but they didn't care:

http://market-ticker.org/archives/590-FLASH-Fed-Speaking-Out-Both-Sides-Of-Mouth.html

Karl Denninger reported exactly what you said...someone pulled liquidity on September 24, 2009.  He said, over a four day period, a 125billion dollar decrease in free cash slosh to float in the system...

meanwhile, hank and ben were busy lobbying so they could save all of us by taking every last shred of goodwill and credit left in our country's name , and give it to failed entities (C, MER, MS, GS...remember Lehman was a sacrificial lamb, and AIG was the spit on which to cook the CDS's on Lehman to pass out the back door--free money for the mobsters)

Fri, 09/04/2009 - 02:06 | Link to Comment Marley
Marley's picture

I've got to ask this question.  Is there a connection between these two events?

http://zerohedge.blogspot.com/2009/02/how-world-almost-came-to-end-at-2p...

and your link?  Fed sees money pulling out on Sept. 18th and Fed removes liquidity on the  24th.  Fed announces problem solved by increasing FDIC limit.  Someone make sense of this for me.  I'm too stuuuppppiiiiiddddd.  Who pulled the money on the 18th?

Sat, 09/05/2009 - 01:08 | Link to Comment agrotera
agrotera's picture

I think you might be right Marley.  but it was the cry that the end of the world was coming on behalf of the fed and treas leaders that lead to the run on the MMfunds.......

Sat, 09/05/2009 - 19:40 | Link to Comment ToNYC
ToNYC's picture

The money went down the Madoff worm-hole to the other side, the dark side where democracy lives and the non-Arab crude oil profits are laundered...he took a bullet for the tribe in December..."remember, we chose this life...", said Hyman Roth.

Thu, 09/03/2009 - 19:35 | Link to Comment deadhead
deadhead's picture

The same kind that nobody saw coming, nobody investigates and nobody dares to ask where the money went.

Denninger has postulated that the Fed sucked it out via a reduction in slosh.

Thu, 09/03/2009 - 18:56 | Link to Comment lizzy36
lizzy36's picture

memories....

a full year ago this weekend, is when FNM and FRE began their conservatorship.  as it turned out subprime was not as contained as bernanke had led us all to believe. 

i enjoyed the days before every entity became tbtf. and every fricking day was a victory for the bulls. 

Thu, 09/03/2009 - 22:18 | Link to Comment Steak
Steak's picture

According to Fortune mag, MS got a nominal $95K to be the folks who decided the fate of Fannie n Freddie.  What sucks so hard here (notwithstanding an IB dictating the fate of $5 trillion) is that for as long as fan/fred have sucked there was no plan whatsoever to deal with them.  As far as I can tell from the article the MS team was calling the shots n gubment was flat footed.

"Porat and Scully and their crew of three dozen worked virtually full-time on the project–often 7 a.m. to 11 p.m. in New York and Washington. They spent Labor Day at the Treasury Department offices–with lots of diet Cokes, and Paulson himself popping in at all hours. As the teams realized that the easiest option–Freddie and Fannie raising more capital on their own—was untenable, they considered three others: an equity investment by the government, conservatorship, or receivership, which would likely have lead to Freddie and Fannie’s liquidation."

http://postcards.blogs.fortune.cnn.com/2008/09/08/morgan-stanley-behind-the-fannie-freddie-bailout/

Thu, 09/03/2009 - 18:32 | Link to Comment Anonymous
Thu, 09/03/2009 - 18:33 | Link to Comment Anonymous
Thu, 09/03/2009 - 18:38 | Link to Comment nope-1004
nope-1004's picture

I think he owns preferred shares.

Thu, 09/03/2009 - 18:45 | Link to Comment deadhead
deadhead's picture

I don't follow Buffet's ownership interests, but Yahoo finance shows this ownership of common as of Q2 end...

BERKSHIRE HATHAWAY, INC   302,609,212   6.48    $7,341,299,483    30-Jun-09
Thu, 09/03/2009 - 20:56 | Link to Comment deadhead
deadhead's picture

andy....got any thoughts, speculations, etc on whether or not Paulson started dumping bac or rf shares?

Thu, 09/03/2009 - 18:42 | Link to Comment Anonymous
Thu, 09/03/2009 - 18:37 | Link to Comment Joe Sixpack
Thu, 09/03/2009 - 18:43 | Link to Comment Sqworl
Sqworl's picture

I have recently read several foreclosure horror stories about banks not knowing who owns the property or who has the note!  With all the slicing and dicing of correlated mortages, Judges are ruling in favor or home owners...Free house, fuck you very much Bank.

Thu, 09/03/2009 - 19:12 | Link to Comment ghostfaceinvestah
ghostfaceinvestah's picture

I think that is becoming more common.

Not a horror story if you get a free house.

Thu, 09/03/2009 - 19:19 | Link to Comment Sqworl
Sqworl's picture

True, but major moral hazard for those of us who pay our mortgage?  From what I understand, its a big secret, the paperwork went into the Abyss...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LO2eh6f5Go0

Thu, 09/03/2009 - 19:28 | Link to Comment Miles Kendig
Miles Kendig's picture

Too much hazard for fraud look c's so the shredder option is a distinct possibility. Hell, prof Black said that the ratings agencies couldn't even see the loan origination docs before giving their blessing.

Thu, 09/03/2009 - 20:23 | Link to Comment MsCreant
MsCreant's picture

Just to fill out all the possibilities, if I just got laid off in a deal that I thought sucked big ones, I just might want to fuck with the new overlords and do some:

1. Random shredding, just for the fuck of it. Fun and easy.

2. Targeted shredding, where I deliberately make it look like it is owned by someone who it is not owned by.

3. Robbing Hood shredding, where I decide that I am Santa and I may be getting screwed, but some people who I know got fucked are going to get my help. It is all the power I have left.

Thu, 09/03/2009 - 21:26 | Link to Comment Miles Kendig
Miles Kendig's picture

Absolutely.  I would add the good old knew that what was going on is fucked up and have been doing a lift and shred for a long while.  What goes, comes and there are some that would love to do it.  Just like to good old actuary standby of adding an account or two to a companies retirement plan...

I like the way you think

Thu, 09/03/2009 - 21:43 | Link to Comment MsCreant
MsCreant's picture

Resistance is not futile.

Gotta come clean. Mish Shedlock talked about too big to survive on his blog today so I was able to handily elaborate on some of the thoughts commenters there have had on the topic. 

today. http://globaleconomicanalysis.blogspot.com/2009/09/too-big-to-survive.html

Thu, 09/03/2009 - 21:18 | Link to Comment aldousd
aldousd's picture

My dog ate the mortgage bills. I swear it.

Thu, 09/03/2009 - 19:40 | Link to Comment deadhead
deadhead's picture

the paperwork trail is a genuine mess.

i can tell you that the public records where mortgages (deeds of trust in some states) are filed is a horrific mess in various locations around the country.  there are tons of refinanced mortgages wherein the discharges on the original mortgage(s) were never filed and tons of new mortgages that never got put on record. 

this has huge ramifications. 

Thu, 09/03/2009 - 19:46 | Link to Comment Ben_the_Bald
Ben_the_Bald's picture

The biggest issue is when the mortages are securitized over and over again.

Thu, 09/03/2009 - 19:46 | Link to Comment Miles Kendig
Miles Kendig's picture

If a clear lien cannot be proved all else follows DH.

Thu, 09/03/2009 - 19:50 | Link to Comment deadhead
deadhead's picture

It is going to be very tough in some parts to prove or "cure" as they say clear liens.  The title companies are going to be much more conservative in their underwriting on these matters going forward and have started the process some time ago by dumping hordes or title agents, who tended to insure just about anything. 

Thu, 09/03/2009 - 20:52 | Link to Comment bbbilly1326
bbbilly1326's picture

but what happens when you try to sell ?  without a title ?

Thu, 09/03/2009 - 21:01 | Link to Comment deadhead
deadhead's picture

when you try to sell and you have title problems, it is a clusterfuck.  the degree of the clusterfuck depends on several variables, all of which are very time consuming,  quite expensive if one has to go to court to seek clear title.  if you currently own a home and have been doing the serial refinancing thing, i would suggest you have your title searched to see if you have any problems now.

Thu, 09/03/2009 - 22:16 | Link to Comment Anonymous
Fri, 09/04/2009 - 00:38 | Link to Comment SV
SV's picture

You could always let your taxes go intentionally to have a trusted third party pick up the lien on it, only to turn around and foreclose to receive a Treasurer's Deed.  Only issue you have to get a sellable title I'd highly suggest you get a litigation guarantee policy - it's paid off for our firm in spades when it came down.

Thu, 09/03/2009 - 22:48 | Link to Comment Chief Hatuey
Chief Hatuey's picture

 

 Sqworl: "I have recently read several foreclosure horror stories about banks not knowing who owns the property or who has the note! "

Would you have links to any of those articles?

I saw something on that on TV a few months back. The gist of the story was that by law the debtor has a legal right to know who it is that they are paying off.

Thu, 09/03/2009 - 23:47 | Link to Comment Sqworl
Sqworl's picture

NY Post, apparently a Judge in Brooklyn has a major hard on for the Banks..."no paper work" no foreclosure!  I guess they did not get the memo...it was lost in the shuffle..lol

Fri, 09/04/2009 - 16:00 | Link to Comment Anonymous
Thu, 09/03/2009 - 18:44 | Link to Comment Ben_the_Bald
Ben_the_Bald's picture

In other news, China may want to screw a few international banks dealing in commodity futures by voiding contracts. From The Economist:

http://www.economist.com/businessfinance/displaystory.cfm?story_id=14365060

 

Can you spell Goldman Sachs, Morgan Stanley, ...

 

Fascinating speculation.

Thu, 09/03/2009 - 18:54 | Link to Comment Missing_Link
Missing_Link's picture

Expect China to get nuked any minute.  Nobody fucks with Goldman Sachs and gets away with it.

Thu, 09/03/2009 - 19:56 | Link to Comment Hephasteus
Hephasteus's picture

I got news for ya peaches. Nuclear weapons are made of a material known as uranium 235. If you take uranium 235 and sit it on a bench. It decays. If you encase it in a 20,000 lb steel warhead. It decays. If you throw it in space. It decays. If you dump it in the ocean it decays. If you bury it in the ground it decays.

 

Rapidly.

 

So were not really talking about rifles that get packed in plastic and grease and get sold off as ww1 surplus 70 years later. Everything radioactive and heavier than lead doesn't like being radioactive. It wants to be lead. So being blustery about nuclear weapons is stupid. This isn't 1945 and and we aren't dropping freshly made bombs. Nuclear weapons are stupid and a waste of time. But that didn't stop reagan building hundreds and hundreds of them which are probably all trash right now. Good way to build up debt. I'm sure the central bankers would love for everyone to keep building them and building them and building them especially without the money to do it.

Thu, 09/03/2009 - 20:22 | Link to Comment Argos
Argos's picture

The half life of uranium-235 is about 704 MILLION years.  It's not the uranium that's the problem, it's the missile.

Fri, 09/04/2009 - 03:56 | Link to Comment Hephasteus
Hephasteus's picture

Way to pick a durable sounding point on an exponential curve.

Thu, 09/03/2009 - 20:32 | Link to Comment Marshal Ney
Marshal Ney's picture

Someone tell Dr. Strangelove to take his chill pill.

Thu, 09/03/2009 - 21:04 | Link to Comment deadhead
deadhead's picture

If you take uranium 235 and sit it on a bench. It decays. If you encase it in a 20,000 lb steel warhead. It decays. If you throw it in space. It decays. If you dump it in the ocean it decays. If you bury it in the ground it decays.

 

sounds like a leveraged etf.  sorry, could not resist.

Thu, 09/03/2009 - 21:20 | Link to Comment robert_paulson
robert_paulson's picture

Best leveraged ETF joke EVER!

Thu, 09/03/2009 - 21:47 | Link to Comment MsCreant
MsCreant's picture

Agreed. Damn funny.

Fri, 09/04/2009 - 03:57 | Link to Comment Hephasteus
Hephasteus's picture

LOL

Thu, 09/03/2009 - 21:07 | Link to Comment Rollerball
Rollerball's picture

Don't need nukes, when you've got a haarp.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y2W7nGWOSu8

Thu, 09/03/2009 - 21:13 | Link to Comment Gilgamesh
Gilgamesh's picture

Thank you; forgot I have that show DVRd and never watched it.

Fri, 09/04/2009 - 00:26 | Link to Comment Anonymous
Thu, 09/03/2009 - 20:59 | Link to Comment Gilgamesh
Gilgamesh's picture

Story came out over the weekend and was rumored to have led the Monday Shanghai Surprise, and US aftereffect.  MS was down considerably more than peers that day and next.  Goldman, not so much.

Thu, 09/03/2009 - 18:47 | Link to Comment Joe Sixpack
Joe Sixpack's picture

Pick-a-pay loans.

 

https://www.wachovia.com/file/0612_Mortgage_Call.pdf

Love the Cautinary Statement (2007), they covered most of it:


...The following factors, among others, could cause Wachovia’s financial performance to differ materially from that expressed in such forward-looking statements:

 (1) the risk that the businesses of Wachovia and/or Golden West in connection with the Golden West Merger or the businesses of Wachovia, Westcorp and WFS Financial in connection with the Westcorp Transaction will not be integrated successfully or such integration may be more difficult, time-consuming or costly than expected;

(2) expected revenue synergies and cost savings from the Golden West Merger or the Westcorp Transaction may not be fully realized or realized within the expected time frame;

(3) revenues following the Golden West Merger or the Westcorp Transaction may be lower than expected;

(4) deposit attrition, operating costs, customer loss and business disruption following the Golden West Merger or the Westcorp Transaction, including, without limitation, difficulties in maintaining relationships with employees, may be greater than expected;

(5) the strength of the United States economy in general and the strength of the local economies in which Wachovia conducts operations may be different than expected resulting in, among other things, a deterioration in credit quality or a reduced demand for credit, including the resultant effect on Wachovia’s loan portfolio and allowance for loan losses;

(6) the effects of, and changes in, trade, monetary and fiscal policies and laws, including interest rate policies of the Board of Governors of the Federal Reserve System;

(7) inflation, interest rate, market and monetary fluctuations;

(8) adverse conditions in the stock market, the public debt market and other capital markets (including changes in interest rate conditions) and the impact of such conditions on Wachovia’s capital markets and capital management activities, including, without limitation, Wachovia’s mergers and acquisition advisory business, equity and debt underwriting activities, private equity investment activities, derivative securities activities, investment and wealth management advisory businesses, and brokerage activities;

(9) the impact of changes in financial services’ laws and regulations (including laws concerning taxes, banking, securities and insurance);

(10) unanticipated regulatory or judicial proceedings or rulings;

(11) adverse changes in financial performance and/or condition of Wachovia’s borrowers which could impact repayment of such borrowers’ outstanding loans.

Additional factors that could cause Wachovia’s results to differ materially from those described in the forward-looking statements can be found in Wachovia’s Annual reports on Form 10-K, Quarterly Reports on Form 10-Q and Current Reports on Form 8-K filed with the SEC. All subsequent written and oral forward-looking statements concerning Wachovia, the Golden West Merger, the Westcorp Transaction or other matters and attributable to Wachovia or any person acting on its behalf are expressly qualified in their entirety by the cautionary statements above. Wachovia does not undertake any obligation to update any forward-looking statement, whether written or oral, relating to the matters discussed in this investor presentation.

 

Thu, 09/03/2009 - 18:54 | Link to Comment 5THTURNING
5THTURNING's picture

I just got a flyer from WF.  $50.00 to open a checking account.

   Washington Mutual offered $100.00 before hmmm..

 

Thu, 09/03/2009 - 19:00 | Link to Comment RobotTrader
RobotTrader's picture

I guess the Riverboaters didn't get the WFC Delinquency Memo.

They are all lining up to buy the "Fab Five" and other assorted junk tomorrow....

  Last Change Change % Volume   C Citigroup Inc 4.79 +0.02 +0.42% 11,208,470   SPY SPDR S&P 500 ETF 100.70 +0.05 +0.05% 8,835,512   FNM Fannie Mae 1.74 +0.10 +6.10% 7,111,667   QQQQ PowerShares QQQ 39.54 +0.03 +0.08% 6,886,531   EEM iShares MSCI Emerging ... 35.72 +0.01 +0.03% 5,399,092   XRT SPDR S&P Retail ETF 32.02 +0.07 +0.22% 4,212,200   BAC Bank Of America Corpor ... 16.91 +0.07 +0.42% 4,165,281   XLF Financial Select Secto ... 14.11 +0.05 +0.36% 3,066,311   EMC EMC Corp 15.82 +0.01 +0.06% 2,561,482   FRE Freddie Mac 1.97 +0.10 +5.35% 2,375,175   WFC Wells Fargo & Co 26.92 +0.01 +0.04% 1,739,267   JPM JPMorgan Chase & Co 42.18 +0.07 +0.17% 1,415,504   IWM iShares Russell 2000 I ... 56.20 -0.06 -0.11% 902,267   AIG American Intl Group Inc 43.23 +1.48 +3.54% 862,437   CIT CIT Group Inc 1.53 +0.03 +2.00% 854,934

 

Thu, 09/03/2009 - 19:16 | Link to Comment Project Mayhem
Project Mayhem's picture

Gold hit an all-time high in Pakistan today

http://c.moreover.com/click/here.pl?x2183799365&f=1774


also Denninger has a great rant up in response to CNBS..he really nails it in my opinion... a must-watch...

http://market-ticker.denninger.net/archives/1406-Kneale-Abuse.html



and Jim Willie has a new article out
http://financialsense.com/fsu/editorials/willie/2009/0903.html

Thu, 09/03/2009 - 19:31 | Link to Comment ghostfaceinvestah
ghostfaceinvestah's picture

PM, I luv ya man, but damn you just made me listen to DK.  What a knob.  he equates believing in the stock market with patriotism, or even the value of the economy?

Stock values should represent the residual cash flows available to company owners.  They have nothing to do with if you believe in the USA or not.

Man that guy is a dope.

Thu, 09/03/2009 - 19:43 | Link to Comment Anonymous
Thu, 09/03/2009 - 19:49 | Link to Comment Project Mayhem
Project Mayhem's picture

haha sorry ghostface  next time i will post a big fat FAIL warning for dennis kneal

Thu, 09/03/2009 - 20:47 | Link to Comment Marshal Ney
Marshal Ney's picture

"Patriotism's the last refuge of scoundrels"... You know the idiots are desperate when they start playin' the patriotism card.

Thu, 09/03/2009 - 19:37 | Link to Comment SV
SV's picture

Karl has a penchant for putting it bluntly.  He's heavy handed with the TinFoil™ crowd too, taking Willie to task.  Occam's razor baby.

Thu, 09/03/2009 - 19:48 | Link to Comment Project Mayhem
Project Mayhem's picture

i disagree with denninger about wtc7 , but that's fine,  it would be boring if everyone agreed on everything.

 

i read both jim willie and denninger to get two different perspectives.  jim seems to think this is the beginning of the 'real' move in gold.  wouldn't that be nice...

Thu, 09/03/2009 - 19:56 | Link to Comment SV
SV's picture

True, true.  I don't agree with either of them all the time, even less with Doug Casey.  All make fine reads; I treat it like a buffet taking what I like and leaving the rest.

... and yes, a 'real' move in Gold is almost a surreal novelty that I think even KD could appreciate. Nah.  I will appreciate it though.

Thu, 09/03/2009 - 20:21 | Link to Comment Anonymous
Fri, 09/04/2009 - 13:04 | Link to Comment Anonymous
Thu, 09/03/2009 - 20:58 | Link to Comment Anonymous
Fri, 09/04/2009 - 07:32 | Link to Comment Hephasteus
Hephasteus's picture

Well watch Fabled Enemies. It has some good stuff on that. I can't buy building 7 just falling down. I could buy ONE of the towers having enough combustible materials to create enough heat to turn the structure cherry red and allow plastic deformation. But BOTH. The smoke in fires is combustible material and so much smoke was pouring out. There just wasnt enough heat in building 7 to do that. Maybe some of the facade falling off. Not enough radiant heat from the towers even though all that thermite pouring out of them is pretty hot stuff. Theres just too much distance.

The clincher is the missing 2.3 trillion and destruction of the ACCOUNTING wing of pentagon. You'll either go all in or not on that one.

Fri, 09/04/2009 - 13:01 | Link to Comment Anonymous
Thu, 09/03/2009 - 19:44 | Link to Comment Miles Kendig
Miles Kendig's picture

Dennis the menace never has nor would wear the uniform of our great nation.  His asinine ravings disparaging those of us who happen to believe in the foundational principles of our nation and have & will stand up for them speaks louder than any words he could ever utter.

Thanks PM for posting this.

Thu, 09/03/2009 - 23:28 | Link to Comment GoldmanSux
GoldmanSux's picture

Let's all remember who Dennis is. He is the guy(forbes editor etc) who has put the headline on the business magazine. The exact opposite headline of what happens in the next six months more often than you can count. He is a contrary indicator. HE BELIEVES. He doesn't believe anything. He hopes. As does every agency of gov't right now. They are crapping their pants, because its all starting to unwind and they are running out of ammo.

Fri, 09/04/2009 - 08:48 | Link to Comment Miles Kendig
Miles Kendig's picture

True enough.

We realize they are looking at the avalanche that has started from an entirely different perspective. hehhe  After all, we are far from running out of ammo since the rounds we are lobing at the unstable hillside continue to score with great effect.  Dennis can wish that his view of patriotism will save him from being engulfed.  After all, all that he has left is hopium, denial and a paycheck for being such a hack and once he is engulfed he will have nothing. 

Sat, 09/05/2009 - 23:20 | Link to Comment Chief Hatuey
Chief Hatuey's picture

 

They are crapping their pants, because its all starting to unwind and they are running out of ammo.

 

Wasn't that the plan all along. Drive our entire financial system into the ground so that the World Bank and IMF would become the new financial system. China is first in line:

http://ca.news.yahoo.com/s/afp/090902/business/finance_economy_imf_china_bonds

That is why our regulators are paper tigers, the laws were changed in recent years to make the transition possible. That is why Obama has left all the key players in place from the previous administration and he added more financial sith lords. That does not even include the 30 unconstitutional czars reporting to him!

Thu, 09/03/2009 - 20:09 | Link to Comment h4rdware
h4rdware's picture

Jim Willie r0cks.

CNBC man always reminds me of something, but I can't quite place it. From childhood, with bright colours. Nevermind, it will come to me eventually...

 

Thu, 09/03/2009 - 20:45 | Link to Comment Project Mayhem
Project Mayhem's picture

rofl.  brilliant,sir.

 

Dennis Kneale, CNBC anchor, Ph.D. in Clueless  --^

Fri, 09/04/2009 - 01:01 | Link to Comment Ghettomedic
Ghettomedic's picture

PowerLunch was actually watchable when he was gone for the past month. I thought maybe CNBC got wise to the fact that some short bus moron was masquerading as a journalist. No luck with that. Back again, and just as loud and stupid as ever.

Thu, 09/03/2009 - 21:02 | Link to Comment Gilgamesh
Gilgamesh's picture

I feel the need to do this again with DK.  Video of him on 'hiatus.'

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3KANI2dpXLw

Thu, 09/03/2009 - 23:40 | Link to Comment agrotera
agrotera's picture

When he is not pretending to be a journalist and he is hanging out with his Muppet friends, you would never know what a scumbag boldface liar he is proving himself to be...how tragic.

Thu, 09/03/2009 - 23:50 | Link to Comment Sqworl
Sqworl's picture

Two of my friends perform at the circus daily.  They Don't believe a word they speak.  Its scripted!!  Its paycheck until it ends or they get a better gig and book deal..That's the truth!

Thu, 09/03/2009 - 20:19 | Link to Comment SWRichmond
SWRichmond's picture

Is Karl finally starting to see the problem with Fractional Reserve Banking?

 

Edit: Fraudulent Reserve Banking

Thu, 09/03/2009 - 20:25 | Link to Comment Anonymous
Thu, 09/03/2009 - 20:23 | Link to Comment Missing_Link
Missing_Link's picture

It's all very simple, actually.

All the bank debt Mr. Denninger refers to is worth exactly 5,327 quatloos.

Now we just need to figure out how much a quatloo is worth and we'll be set.

Thu, 09/03/2009 - 20:48 | Link to Comment Ducky
Ducky's picture

DK thinks that Barney Frank threatening to obliterate FASB unless they let banks lie to us for a few years is the best regulatory system in the world?

That's basically how we've avoided armageddon. It really isn't that hard Dennis. It is why the GE stock in your 401K isn't worth ZERO Dennis. Your daddy company is a TARP baby, allowed to mark to myth.

Here's a good one about CNBC's TARPED up daddy, GE. The guy says GE is a $2 stock wating to happen.

http://finance.yahoo.com/techticker/article/316847/Avoid-

Thu, 09/03/2009 - 21:40 | Link to Comment AN0NYM0US
AN0NYM0US's picture

 

Thanks -- that is a must watch

 

 

Thu, 09/03/2009 - 21:59 | Link to Comment Gilgamesh
Gilgamesh's picture

Too bad it's a $2 stock that will never be allowed to get there (zero, really, with GECC).  GE is a key Too Important Media To Fail.  I'd be all over puts on it at this price if they weren't one of the most-connected, useful companies of you-know-who.  We need to lend some tinfoil to guys like that on the video.

 

If CIT had a media division, they would have gotten as much of the Acronym Soup bailout money & programs as needed - like GE did/does/will.

Thu, 09/03/2009 - 21:52 | Link to Comment docj
docj's picture

KD: the anti-DK.

Thu, 09/03/2009 - 23:37 | Link to Comment Anonymous
Fri, 09/04/2009 - 11:34 | Link to Comment Anonymous
Fri, 09/04/2009 - 12:55 | Link to Comment Anonymous
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