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What To Make Of Today's Market Move

Tyler Durden's picture


A visual summary of today's action...

And a verbal one, courtesy of Peter Tchir from TF Market Advisors:

If not unprecedented moves we are certainly witnessing a rare day in the markets.  The entire energy complex is down 5-10%.  Metals and agriculture are down 2-5% except for silver, down a whopping 11%! The Eur has depreciated 2%.  So far stocks have been largely immune to the move and credit has completely ignored it.

Clearly a combination of crowded trades, margin increases, and surprisingly dovish comments from Trichet sparked this move.  It's clear that the moves down are triggering additional stops and that no one has been willing to step up and play for a big bounce.

Equities have remained fairly calm so far.  Certainly a decrease in commodity prices is helpful and would go a long way to ease one of the main concerns expressed by company after company.  The move in the dollar is a little more troubling as the weak dollar has clearly been a positive for the economy and profits.  But the reality is that the stock market is a little like dear in headlights right now.  Investors aren't used to seeing moves of 10% in a commodity as important as oil.  I think the initial reaction of doing nothing will give way to selling.  Investors taking losses in commodities will take profits in stocks or at least raise some cash to post additional margin on their remaining positions.  The economic data has been weak at best and deteriorating, eroding support for stocks.  None of the major problems in the world have been solved, they have been merely swept under the carpet or ignored, but are still there.  The sovereign debt crisis is not better, if anything it's becoming more clear that default is likely for at least Greece.  Japan is still in the early stages of dealing with the consequences of the earthquake, tsunami, and nuclear disaster.  MENA remains troublesome.  With all the excitement of taking out Osama, no one focused on the fact that the 'No Fly Zone' in Libya has expanded into bombing buildings where Quadaffi is living. 

If the selling starts, the reports show that margin debt and net leverage in the stock market are back to extremely high levels.  Any selling in stocks could trigger margin calls there too.  The housing market remains a mess and fraudclosure hasn't gone away, if anything, it seems a safe bet that DB and MortgageIT are not the only entities in the crosshairs of the government. 

Clearly something is going on in the markets that is not natural.  Liquidity is at a premium.  Stocks have watched it calmly so far, but I expect they will get dragged into this as well and we will see margin liquidations in stocks too.  All indications are that people are pretty fully invested.  As mentioned earlier this week, stocks had lots of excuses to rally early in the week, but couldn't.  The buy the dip mentality is still there, and that could rescue stocks, but since the sell off in other assets does not appear normal, I wouldn't rely on buy the dip to save stocks.

Credit is completely ambivalent right now.  That largely makes sense, but we all know that credit is always liquid until it isn't.  It may be time to start shorting some LQD and HYG.  The carry is low, the markets have been supported by a big influx of cash - HYG has the most shares outstanding ever, and LQD has seen a strong rebound in shares outstanding recently.  I don't think there is anything wrong with the fundamentals in credit.  Companies have generally cleaned up their balance sheet and earnings are fine, but if investors need to raise some cash this market is as likely to get sold as any, and the speed of the sell off could be surprising.  With high yield, only yielding 7.5% I'm assuming many hedge funds have had to use some leverage to get potential returns above 10%.  If any move down remains small, they will grow their positions, but at some point, they will have to cut positions to defend their returns.  Many are relucantly long at these levels, so their willingness to hold on is lower than usual as they are not in love with the market at these prices.

In summary I would be very careful here.  I would be short stocks, light if not short credit, and would be looking for opportunities to go long the energy sector in particular. It will be interesting to see how China reacts overnight and I expect tomorrow's NFP to be a big disappointment - though I'm looking forward to hearing some new creative excuses as to why it was weak.  


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Thu, 05/05/2011 - 16:05 | 1244837 Texas Gunslinger
Texas Gunslinger's picture

The Wall Street casino got as many people packed at the commodity table as possible, then turned off the lights, as always. 

Free drinks at the Dollar Table!

Thu, 05/05/2011 - 16:09 | 1244854 Spastica Rex
Spastica Rex's picture


Thu, 05/05/2011 - 16:23 | 1244964 Magnix
Magnix's picture


Thu, 05/05/2011 - 17:07 | 1245195 Ahmeexnal
Ahmeexnal's picture

Jesus ass-reaming Christ!

Thu, 05/05/2011 - 17:57 | 1245371 dynomutt
dynomutt's picture

Jesus likes using his auger on sheep.

He gives them his awl.

Thu, 05/05/2011 - 17:42 | 1245308 goldfreak
goldfreak's picture

so now trolls posing as Christians too?

Thu, 05/05/2011 - 18:12 | 1245411 Hook Line and S...
Hook Line and Sphincter's picture

Yes, but spastica was referring to Jesus Juan Carlos del Gato Morales who was heard coming from the fields saying, 'Pinche Gringo's, Mi pais acaba comprar 100 tons de oro de papel.'

Thu, 05/05/2011 - 18:25 | 1245442 Almost Solvent
Almost Solvent's picture

Like little Jose who loves going to US baseball games by climbing up & sitting on the fence.

Before every game the whole crowd stands up to ask "Jose can you see?"

Thu, 05/05/2011 - 18:43 | 1245517 Hook Line and S...
Hook Line and Sphincter's picture

Jose can see that the US is about to become Mexico.

Oye! Ningun adonde correr ahora.

Thu, 05/05/2011 - 19:04 | 1245601 goldfreak
goldfreak's picture

para atras a Mexico

Thu, 05/05/2011 - 19:18 | 1245657 Hot Piece of Bass
Hot Piece of Bass's picture

En poco tiempo estaran corriendo para el otro lado.

Thu, 05/05/2011 - 19:27 | 1245694 Hook Line and S...
Hook Line and Sphincter's picture

Caramba, no esta bien.

Thu, 05/05/2011 - 18:23 | 1245447 tmosley
tmosley's picture

If this is indicative of their quality, I welcome them heartily.

Texas Gunslinger is the best troll I have ever seen.  By FAR.

Thu, 05/05/2011 - 19:10 | 1245629 Strike Back
Strike Back's picture

He's an agent or a paid shill posing as an innocent, racist neo-con.

Thu, 05/05/2011 - 19:24 | 1245670 Zero Govt
Zero Govt's picture

perfect CV for a GOP Presidential candidate, when does Texas Gun' annouce he's running? 

Thu, 05/05/2011 - 19:26 | 1245700 DaveyJones
DaveyJones's picture

an innocent racist necon :)  Is that like a peace keeping missle?

Fri, 05/06/2011 - 00:11 | 1246363 Smiley
Smiley's picture


Thu, 05/05/2011 - 19:57 | 1245820 tmosley
tmosley's picture

I love your correct use of the word innocent.

Hearing that word used properly is like poetry.

And I don't think he's being paid.  I think he did it for the lulz.

Thu, 05/05/2011 - 19:31 | 1245705 DosZap
DosZap's picture

No,so far away from Christians just more lack of respect.

Glad their not slamming Mohammed..............that's totally not PC.

Thu, 05/05/2011 - 17:43 | 1245315 JW n FL
JW n FL's picture
Republican-controlled committee voted for a 18-month delay of regulations intended to reduce risk in OTC derivatives.
Thu, 05/05/2011 - 16:28 | 1245022 Things that go bump
Things that go bump's picture

Jesus Christ on a crutch fucking a duck, get over yourself, man. 

Thu, 05/05/2011 - 16:43 | 1245102 Dr. Richard Head
Dr. Richard Head's picture

God damnit.  I am buying more silver.

Oh, eat-bite-fuck-suck-gobble-nibble-chew,
Moose-piss, cat-pud, orangutan-tit,
Sheep-pussy, camel-crack, pig and lion shit.

Thu, 05/05/2011 - 17:03 | 1245158 scratch_and_sniff
scratch_and_sniff's picture

Listen to this, the guy is walking up the middle of the road shouting "silver"!! Needless to say, hes crushed.

Thu, 05/05/2011 - 19:26 | 1245681 Sierra Hotel
Sierra Hotel's picture

This is actually some very nice trolling. Well Done.

Thu, 05/05/2011 - 20:19 | 1245895 scratch_and_sniff
scratch_and_sniff's picture

you're welcome.

Thu, 05/05/2011 - 17:26 | 1245258 Things that go bump
Things that go bump's picture

Doc, blasphemy, of the take the name of the lord in vain sort, perhaps offends Texas Gunslinger, though his seeming pious Christianity may be only part of the facade of a troll. Thanks for that little ditty.  I haven't heard anything quite that vulgar since I let a sailor debauch me in my youth.  I hope it offended Texas Gunslinger.  I'm going to wait until silver starts creeping up again before I add to my stash.  I bought most of mine in the $15 - $17 range so I am still happy with my profits.  

Thu, 05/05/2011 - 19:06 | 1245614 BlackholeDivestment
BlackholeDivestment's picture do not think the Truth is a choice you Bitchez?

...after you all run out of piss and vinegar ...there's a black hole, Jocko. You plan on rising from that bottomless pit too huh? Still can't see the reflection in the mirror? Bau Hau Haaaaus You all are some funny pathetic Bitchez. Better snap out of that shit quick, as in now, this day.



Thu, 05/05/2011 - 19:12 | 1245638 whoopsing
whoopsing's picture

Valby!!!.....nice one dickhead ;)

Thu, 05/05/2011 - 17:21 | 1245252 aerojet
aerojet's picture

"You said it man, nobody fucks with da Jesus!"

Thu, 05/05/2011 - 18:13 | 1245417 creighton_abrams
creighton_abrams's picture

I f*ck you in the ass next Wednesday instead.

Thu, 05/05/2011 - 19:28 | 1245678 Zero Govt
Zero Govt's picture

'Poof' there goes random lustful spontaneous sex

Thu, 05/05/2011 - 16:32 | 1245031 Dr. Porkchop
Dr. Porkchop's picture

Sweet mother of fucking Christ! PMs are on sale! Back up the Goddamned truck!

Thu, 05/05/2011 - 16:51 | 1245117 FEDbuster
FEDbuster's picture

Speaking of "the truck", I think I will wait until Monday to fill mine up.  Gas is currently $3.58/gal. at Sam's Club, should be around $3.35 next week.  Or priced in silver, 1 oz= 10.5 gallons up from 1 oz.= 13 gals. last week. 

My favorite is that a 1964 quarter will still buy you a gallon of gas or a hamburger, coke and fries.  If you had saved $2,000 in pre-64 quarters, you could still buy a nice, new car with them.

Don't let a couple of days of panic (and fiat manpulation) influence thousands of years of monetary truths.

Thu, 05/05/2011 - 16:34 | 1245044 FeralSerf
FeralSerf's picture

Can I help it if my gardiner's mother named him Hey-soose?  I didn't realize he was your lord.   And what about that Greek dude, Zeus?  You know, the dude that that Jew carpenter was named after.  When help is needed we've been told the way to signal him is by calling:  "Hey Zeus!"  How do you call him?

It's amazing that there are still people in this day and age that have swallowed this superstitious nonsense hook, line, and sinker.  It's impossible to give any credence to anyone that subscribes to this bullshit.  Therefor you are not credible.

Dogs worship.  Men don't worship.

"I do not find in our particular superstition of Christianity one redeeming feature"
Thomas Jefferson

"The most preposterous notion that H. sapiens has ever dreamed up is that the Lord God of Creation, Shaper and Ruler of all the Universes, wants the saccharine adoration of His creatures, can be swayed by their prayers, and becomes petulant if He does not receive this flattery. Yet this absurd fantasy, without a shred of evidence to bolster it, pays all the expenses of the oldest, largest, and least productive industry in all history." -- Robert Heinlein

Thu, 05/05/2011 - 17:00 | 1245162 legal eagle
legal eagle's picture

It is not about you being right, or someone else being right, it is about you being a fucking prick and not being sensitive to other people's beliefs. 90 pecent of the world population worships, get over narracistic yourself! 

Thu, 05/05/2011 - 17:33 | 1245278 ibjamming
ibjamming's picture



Seriously...why?  Because someone told you to?


To believe SO passionately...with NO proof...other than a VERY old book.  Written when people didn't know what electricity was.  It's control buddy...nothing more!

Thu, 05/05/2011 - 18:17 | 1245419 knowless
knowless's picture

it's societal structure and programming, which is necessarry for survival when you don't have cheap electricity.

Thu, 05/05/2011 - 18:27 | 1245453 Almost Solvent
Almost Solvent's picture

After Peak Oil we'll be back to the pre-industrial revolution anyway

Thu, 05/05/2011 - 20:01 | 1245827 tmosley
tmosley's picture

We had industry before we started using oil in any great quantity.  I'm not sure why you think we'll go back.  Or why you think people are too dumb to come up with alternatives.

Thu, 05/05/2011 - 18:41 | 1245502 ibjamming
ibjamming's picture

Oh, I know WHY we have it...don't get me wrong.  The "oafs" need controlling. 


What better way than with "ghost stories" that scare them least "somewhat". 


What kills me is how MANY swallow it...hook, line, and sinker.  They actually BELIEVE...with ALL their being  (making them DANGEROUS), that "God" is looking out for them.  The absolute creator of EVERYTHING...the "Universal CEO", loves them and wants them to be happy...later...IF they follow the "rules".  The rules being different in EVERY sect of EVERY denomination.  The "God" of the old testament is a psychotic, neurotic, bipolar, wacko.  Jesus is OK, they needed new "God" for new times I suppose.  But come on...NOBODY writes about him before Paul?  50 somewhat years later.  No official records.  He's Barrack Obama!  The man with no past.  Who erased it?  Someone wanting to "embellish" a bit?  Maybe create his own version of the "ideal" religion?  And what about the Gnostic, and all the rest of the early Christianities?  You think King James and the "great compromise" is the definitive word?


It's a it?

Thu, 05/05/2011 - 21:52 | 1246144 Creed
Creed's picture

The "God" of the old testament is a psychotic, neurotic, bipolar, wacko.  Jesus is OK, they needed new "God" for new times I suppose.  But come on...NOBODY writes about him before Paul?  50 somewhat years later.  No official records.



you have absolutely no idea what you're talking about

spouting your feel good slogans  may make you feel smart but they have no bearing on reality, good luck with your chosen course

Thu, 05/05/2011 - 22:19 | 1246196 mtomato2
mtomato2's picture

Go Creed.

Secular Humanists aren't worth worrying about.  Besides, God doesn't believe in them.

Thu, 05/05/2011 - 19:11 | 1245630 gatorontheloose
gatorontheloose's picture

++ knowless


would you rather be factually correct or alive ?

Thu, 05/05/2011 - 19:49 | 1245792 DosZap
DosZap's picture

No, it's because you have no vision, and you have not been called....................yet, maybe you will.

Better hope so.

Thu, 05/05/2011 - 21:48 | 1246139 Creed
Creed's picture

with NO proof...



you idiots have no idea what the fuck you are talking about

you idots all worship something- for most here it would be money

 one way or the other you all worship something- choose wisely

Thu, 05/05/2011 - 17:35 | 1245282 Dr. Porkchop
Dr. Porkchop's picture

I worship golden idols.

Thu, 05/05/2011 - 18:29 | 1245456 Fred Hayek
Fred Hayek's picture

I know some pretty seriously religious people and they laugh (and roll their eyes in contempt) at the insecurity of people who take serious offense at such things.

Anyone who does really needs to grow up.


Thu, 05/05/2011 - 18:56 | 1245568 GeorgeHayduke
GeorgeHayduke's picture

If only that 90% could just keep it to themselves and not have to convert the other 10% or those who's one and only Gawd is different than theirs. How nice things might be then.

Thu, 05/05/2011 - 19:48 | 1245758 David449420
David449420's picture

The Christian Bible.

Pretty lousy novel.

The Hero of the story doesn't even get born until 3/4 of the way through the story & then he's killed off before the end.

Definitely could have benefited if the author(s) had a better editor.

90%? I question that statistic.

Thu, 05/05/2011 - 20:03 | 1245845 DosZap
DosZap's picture

Not a novel, 66 separate letters, and books.No Hero,and the killed off was HIS choice, and your freedom,if you ever get it.

But no offense taken, ignorance is curable.

Stupidity is forever.

Thu, 05/05/2011 - 20:48 | 1245983 DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture

DosZap is my kind of guy.  

He gets it.  It's not ALL about the money nor even ALL about the ounces.

Thu, 05/05/2011 - 22:02 | 1246170 Hulk
Hulk's picture

DCRB, we can have that drink when Au passes $1500 again...

Thu, 05/05/2011 - 22:25 | 1246202 mtomato2
mtomato2's picture

Thanks, DCRB.  DZ's comment regarding stupid reminds me of the line "if you're gonna be stupid, you'd better be tough..."

In this case, fireproof.

Thu, 05/05/2011 - 23:00 | 1246238 David449420
David449420's picture

OK. So let's change the word to "story" instead of "novel". Whether you call him a hero or a protagonist, in the "story" he was either coming; he was there (briefly) or he was gone. And his "story" is unbelievable and unrealistic. 

Christianity's deity is no more or less credible than L. Ron Hubbard's science fiction religion. Both religions require "faith" because NO proof exists. In fact, ALL religions have that one central similarity: they ALL require that you believe without any evidence whatsoever.

The key FACT is that every religion (or tin hat conspiracy like the Illuminati to cite one of many) absolutely demands that you believe and accept their preposterous story line without any actual proof. 

My comment wasn't intended to be offensive. 

Sorry, but I just can't resist.   When the Rapture happens on the 21st of this month, can I have your house / Silver?


How can you tell that the religious mind programming I was subjected to in my youth didn't work?



Fri, 05/06/2011 - 09:02 | 1246983 Crumbles
Crumbles's picture

And his "story" is unbelievable and unrealistic. 

Oh?  What kind of a problem do you have with Love Thy Neighbor as Thyself and Honor Thy Mother and Father ?

God is within you.  Get over your denial.

And no, you cannot have my silver until they pry it from my cold, dead hands.

Did you buy the dip, shit ?

And so it goes ...

Fri, 05/06/2011 - 00:25 | 1246386 RichardP
RichardP's picture


David - religious mind programming is irrelevant.  No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him ... says Jesus (John 6:44).  And this is the will of him who sent me, that I shall lose none of all that he has given me ... (John 6:39)

It is not you who decides whether you will be drawn and given.  Stop stressing about it.  If he wants you, he will get you.

Thu, 05/05/2011 - 17:12 | 1245216 nyse
nyse's picture

Surprised? Thomas Jefferson was a Lucifarian (and a pussy).

Thu, 05/05/2011 - 17:55 | 1245356 falak pema
falak pema's picture

no a pussy lover, not a pussy. He also loved sweet Muscat wine, his favorite kind.

Thu, 05/05/2011 - 17:12 | 1245217 Midwest Prepper
Midwest Prepper's picture

His real name is YeShua... Not "Jesus."

Thu, 05/05/2011 - 17:20 | 1245239 in4mayshun
in4mayshun's picture

Oh ya, and evolution is a waaaaay better theory right. A rock is floating in space for millions of years, (...and how did the rock get there???) then one day, BAM! Life on earth, perfectly balanced, just the right sunlight, perfect gravity, an atmosphere that blocks deadly radiation from the sun, endless amounts of water, etc...etc...


and thats just basic life. were not even talking about complex animal and human life. I'm not advocating one religion over another. But if you believe that there is NO creator, I'm sorry but you should probably work for the FED, cause you're a douche.

Thu, 05/05/2011 - 17:30 | 1245264 tmosley
tmosley's picture

lol, you have no idea what you're talking about.

Life came about because of chemistry.  All the amino acids needed could be generated by natural processes.  Random combinations of these amino acids gave way over time to those which self perpetuated themselves.  They started in bubbles, then they started producing simple peptides that made the bubbles last longer, and eventually they developed complex genetic codes, in this same manner.  That which was able to reproduce stuck around, that which couldn't, didn't.  

And so it went on for billions of years, until you got some unique combinations of multiple species that allowed cells to become more complex.  These species already worked together in biofilms, so slime molds weren't a big step.  Then the ones that could move gained a huge advantage over those that couldn't, and animals came to be.  From there, a short jaunt on to land with modified fins and gills, a few winters, use of sweat as a heat regulation mechanism, persistence hunting favoring those who could empathize with the animals they hunted, and BAM, you've got humans.

Sorry if you prefer to believe in the words written in a book collected from numerous oral histories, but evolution is real, observable on both the micro and macro scale, intuitive, and proven beyond a shadow of a doubt.  The whole history is encoded in the DNA of every living thing on the planet.

Thu, 05/05/2011 - 17:54 | 1245359 Sig Sauer
Sig Sauer's picture

kindly show me ONE transitional species observed in the fossil record.  

just ONE.



Thu, 05/05/2011 - 17:58 | 1245372 tmosley
tmosley's picture

*shows him all fossils*


You can also tell which species are related and how by examining the way their DNA is coded.  The codes for proteins that are the same mean they had a common ancestor with the same gene.

If God exists, why did he make humans and guinea pigs the only animals on the earth that can't produce vitamin C?  Not really a problem most of the time, but it sure made it hell on those poor ocean crossing missionaries, among others.

Thu, 05/05/2011 - 18:38 | 1245498 theopco
theopco's picture

*shows him all fossils*


Thu, 05/05/2011 - 18:56 | 1245563 Sig Sauer
Sig Sauer's picture

i like you dude, i like your posts and generally find myself in agreement with you.  on this one, not so much i guess.

i don't think all fossils proves anything.  there are huge gaps in the fossil record that, i think, remains a huge hurdle for evolution.  for instance - sarc/on - if man is alleged to have evolved from aquatic life in the sea, there would reasonably be a fossil record for the transitionary stage, unless he just one day popped out of the sea in current form.  but there are no transitional fossils anywhere.

just something to think about.


Thu, 05/05/2011 - 19:22 | 1245674 Hot Piece of Bass
Hot Piece of Bass's picture

Mollusks don't have bones. 

Mystery solved.

Thu, 05/05/2011 - 20:25 | 1245913 tmosley
tmosley's picture

Like I said EVERY fossil is a transitional fossil.  Species are not set in stone--they are merely a population of creatures that are able to breed with each other and produce productive offspring.

Happily, science and scientific advancement do not require belief, only testable theories.  Evolution is testable, and has been many times.  In my own lab, we have to control against it, lest our test strains become resistant, or adopt new growth patterns (we use them because they form nice, round, easily countable colonies).

We know exactly how speciation occurs (populations separate, and eventually chromosomal changes occur that make it such that the two populations can no longer mate to create viable offspring.

We have found that this more often than not happens very quickly, inside a few dozen generations, when selective pressure is high.  As an example, snakes in Australia have been forced to adapt to a new selective factor in the last 60 years--the highly toxic and pervasive cane toad that was introduced in a vain attempt to control beetle populations.  Snakes have EVOLVED smaller heads, so that they can no longer eat the relatively large cane toads.  Within a dozen generations.  

Not only that, but interesting things happen when populations of an animal are introduced to a new environment--as they spread, they are selected for speed, purely by physical sorting.  As the toads hopped their way across Australia, they grew faster, and faster, and faster.  Frogs from their native areas were compared with frogs from the portion of Australia on the opposite side of where they were introduced, and the ones from Australia move 20% faster than the others.

Evolution is a fact.  You should understand the position adopted by most religious organizations around the world that the Bible and other religious texts are NOT literal truth.  They are parables meant to instruct us how to live a better life.  That is why they are so often nonsensical (Noah's inbreeding, or Cain's wife comes from where, exactly?), or self contradictory.

I am not trying to convince you that God does or doesn't exist, but you must know that the Bible is NOT literal truth.  It is a collection of stories brought together by priests and rabbis, with each sect creating a different book.

God may or may not exist, but if he does, he is much grander than described in the Bible, because the universe itself is far more awesome than the little cage surrounded by crystal spheres described in ancient texts.  So you shouldn't use these books to try to disprove empirical observation.  Use them to live your life.  That is what they are for.

Fri, 05/06/2011 - 01:49 | 1246504 chindit13
chindit13's picture

Hell---and I use that term in the metaphorical sense---must surely have frozen over.  I find myself fully supporting the work of tmosley.

By the way, if we'd had the "wrong" kind of sunlight and "wrong" mix of chemicals, we'd just look a whole lot different and wonder how any life could survive on a sunny little oxygen rich planet.  Oh, and we'd have multiple gods, too, I suspect, with regional popularity and fanatical adherents.

Thu, 05/05/2011 - 22:28 | 1246210 mtomato2
mtomato2's picture

Siggy, Ditto.  I'm a huge Tmos fan.  Really like him/her a lot.  Mostly makes my day, and I can use all of that I can get.  But he and so many others, in my opinion, are requiring too much faith from me on this one.  Tell me where the first rock came from, and we might have a conversation.  Until then, Occam's razor begs a First Cause.  Whatever that First Cause is, is the creator.  Whether or not it is a PERSONAL creator is something everybody has to figure out for themselves.

Fri, 05/06/2011 - 09:15 | 1247042 Crumbles
Crumbles's picture

First rock ...

Big Bang; rocks condense from elements produced by solar fusion and dance endlessly through the universe, colliding and accreting. Billions and billions of years go by.  Billions of years - probably too big an idea for you.  You have a closed mind, it appears, when it comes to rocks.  Maybe more.

Thu, 05/05/2011 - 19:37 | 1245726 Biosci
Biosci's picture

Fuck the fossils.  The molecular evidence is absolutely overwhelming.  Tmosley is right:  you can compare the DNA of different species to get a very good idea of how related they are.  But it goes even deeper than that:  the very fact that all life on earth -- all of it -- uses DNA to encode its heritable information.  You can argue about RNA viruses here, but the exception proves the rule.

Life uses the exact same molecule - ATP - as an energy store.  Life uses almost identical pathways, from bacteria to the trolls on this site, to convert sugar to ATP.  Life uses practically identical molecular machines to turn DNA into RNA and thence to proteins, and uses the exact same modifications to those proteins to activate, deactivate, and destroy them.

Don't like that approach?  The economic investment in evolution might open your eyes.  We study yeast because its cell cycle so closely mimics our own that we can identify cancer genes -- a disease of cell cycle dysregulation -- from it.  Nematode worms have the same chemical signal transduction processes that, when dysregulated in humans, cause epithelial cancers (e.g. breast cancer).  Mice are the initial testbed for drugs because they're so similarly wired. We have invested in evolution because it makes better medicine.

So who cares what it looks like on the outside?  If there was a creator, he was deeply, profoundly uncreative.

Thu, 05/05/2011 - 20:25 | 1245907 DosZap
DosZap's picture

If everything is so simple to you evolutionists, you have to have a START for all this is.

What started all this, and from What.

Ya know, before there was anything.

Big Bang?,who/what made the atoms/protons,neutrons to make it occur.

That is one thing you FAIL miserably on.

There had to BE something in order for anything to become .

Matter, simply did not come into existence by itself.

So, throw out the DNA,the fossils, all the physical..........

What was before it was?.

( Again, I realize no man can understand, unless the Spirit draws them).

Junk away.

Thu, 05/05/2011 - 20:33 | 1245942 Biosci
Biosci's picture

Nope, no junk.  It's a perfectly valid question.  And one where evolutionists and creationists talk past each other, because evolution says absolutely nothing about the origin of life, only that we all evolved from a very small pool of common ancestors.

Of course I've got my own ideas about where it all came from, and they're not at all consistent with what's in your book, but it's got nothing to do with evolutionary theory.  So it's not a "fail" at all.

Thu, 05/05/2011 - 23:01 | 1246247 Oh regional Indian
Oh regional Indian's picture

Teh paleontological record absolutely negates Darwinism, Evolutionism and all the associated lies that go with such isms. In fact, Darwin was set up, his survival of the fittest was needed for people to believe the Capitalist lie, just as much as the other big dupe genius, Marx was needed to give Communism/socialism their philosophical bedrock.


And it's not about a theism, or any thing else like that. Just study some core geometry, understand the golden ratio, study the world a little deeply and you will meet a creator.

It's identity, on the other hand, might surprise you.


Thu, 05/05/2011 - 19:42 | 1245731 Biosci
Biosci's picture


Thu, 05/05/2011 - 19:42 | 1245739 Biosci
Biosci's picture

dup, again.

Thu, 05/05/2011 - 19:01 | 1245589 billsykes
billsykes's picture

like your sig

Thu, 05/05/2011 - 19:10 | 1245620 Kayman
Kayman's picture

"kindly show me ONE transitional species observed in the fossil record.  

just ONE."

Actually, there are many, and if you would care to look, you could find them yourself.

Recently, Neanderthal DNA was discovered in homo sapiens, so I call bullshit on your conjecture.


Thu, 05/05/2011 - 18:56 | 1245558 cornedmutton
cornedmutton's picture

That's just like, your opinion, man.

Thu, 05/05/2011 - 22:33 | 1246215 mtomato2
mtomato2's picture

Best Movie Quote Of The Thread Award goes to cornedmutton

Thu, 05/05/2011 - 17:32 | 1245272 Calmyourself
Calmyourself's picture

No belief in a greater being means the fools I meet are the apex. Sorry, that takes much more faith than I can summon.

Thu, 05/05/2011 - 18:02 | 1245380 still kicking
still kicking's picture

Haha that is awesome, I love it.  Seriously if this, man, is the apex what is the point of going on.  We sure as shit aren't getting any better as a species, just dumber and more narcissistic.

Thu, 05/05/2011 - 18:26 | 1245455 tmosley
tmosley's picture

E plurbus unum, if to err is human, then boy and I glad we're in charge!

Thu, 05/05/2011 - 19:37 | 1245742 ibjamming
ibjamming's picture

Maybe not...BAM!  But you're pretty close. 

You do realize that there are trillions and trillions and trillions of planets?  With that of them could win the lottery...right?  Life wouldn't be here if the conditions weren't pretty much perfect for it...and that IS why it's here.  It's why you are here...everything WAS perfect for life.  At least the type we know.

"God" didn't do it. 

I don't think you realize EXACTLY how small and insignificant you and I really are...  God would have to be quite the detective to even find us.  Let alone care about each and every one of us.  That's probably the part that cracks me up the most...the "all knowing" part.  God doesn't HAVE to be all knowing except to control you.  And that's why they teach that control you.  It's your first taste of being one of the sheep.

Thu, 05/05/2011 - 21:00 | 1246008 Kickaha
Kickaha's picture

It irritates me that the "default" assumption is that life is rare.  That assumption flies in the face of just about everything we have discovered about our planet.

We find life at the bottom of the deepest ocean to undersea fumeroles in 800 degree water... miles underground in solid rock....on mountains at 25,000 acid pools in geothermic areas...just about everywhere we look, except for moon rocks.

Existence seems to be fighting entropy by promoting life wherever it can.

I would bet (not that you and I will be around to pay off or collect) that life abounds throughout the universe. The thought pleases me, since life, in all of its myriad forms, is amazing.

Thu, 05/05/2011 - 21:53 | 1246147 Calmyourself
Calmyourself's picture

I sometimes agree with Leftists. I find that strangely life affirming tonight, big draught of good whiskey, tickled with pure ice. Cheers my fellow soujourner on the left, life is amazing.

Thu, 05/05/2011 - 22:32 | 1246219 mtomato2
mtomato2's picture

Ice?  With whiskey?

Bottom shelf?

Thu, 05/05/2011 - 17:23 | 1245250 nevadan
nevadan's picture

For another view of "superstition" give Joseph Campbell's The Power of Myth a look.  It might reveal a redeeming feature regarding faith.  I don't subscribe to the  orthodoxy of organized religion of any kind.  The single unifying feature of any religion is its practitioners believe they have the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth.  Obviously they can't all be right, but they can certainly all be wrong.  Having said that I must admit to rejecting religion in its totality, in spite of some of the attractive features it provides, regarding it as just a philosophical exercise.  Who could argue with the idea that treating others like you want to be treated is not a good idea?  Campbell's ideas about the usefulness of mythology gave me pause for thought.  The  book is good but the Moyer interview is better since the inflection in the conversation is lost in the printed version.  If you can consider a new point of view give it a look.  It changed my perspective.

Thu, 05/05/2011 - 17:47 | 1245332 atomicwasted
atomicwasted's picture

"Dogs worship.  Men don't worship."


Thu, 05/05/2011 - 19:36 | 1245738 DosZap
DosZap's picture


Statements like these just show the lack of the truth.

The natural man cannot comprehend the things of the spirit.And we got a buttload here.


Thu, 05/05/2011 - 21:14 | 1246052 Forward History
Forward History's picture

Two days ago I was at a prison ministry that myself and some other backwater, ignorant Christians run. It's a maximum security prison. All smiles during the service. The men are grateful for the smallest things; things like "my brother visited me Friday". Makes all the nonsense about shorts, puts, lost profits and everything here seem trivial at times.


I used to be an atheist. I'm not anymore. I think part of what led me to the faith was a refusal to ever think I had figured out the nature of existence. I kept an open mind.  I still keep an open mind -- if you think this is a Christian that never has doubts, I have a bridge to sell you.

I've gotten more pragmatic as I've gotten older. The simple answer for why so many of us don't give up our superstitions is because we realize we don't have all the answers for the formation of existence, so we might as well go with something that generates positive results in ourselves and the world around us. Yes, religion has generated its share of evils, though usually those were other motives wrapped in the clothing of religion. When King Henry VIII purges Catholic churches, it's not because King Henry VIII is a religious fanatic. It's because he's a power-mad psychopath.

I assure you, people have and will continue to find creative reasons to abuse each other, whether religious or not.

I wish I could encapsulate for people like yourself, who think they have a right to bludgeon others who disagree with them, my journey to Christ and the things I've seen once I gave the faith a chance. But I don't have any magic pill for you to take. I don't have clever words. What I will say is this: I've never seen atheism transform a room full of bank robbers, rapists, child molesters, murderers, and thieves into ardent practicioners of the word, exercising it in a way that is completely awe-inspiring to watch and spreading good will in a place where it's the last thing you'd expect. You say I can't see any proof of my faith? I see it everytime we go through those doors.

As a counterpoint, what good do people who practice atheism the way you do impart to their fellow man? You're openly being bigoted towards the religious. What could your non-belief possibly offer to me? Why would I want to leave behind the God I've grown to know and the transformative power of what I've do what? Slam people anonymously on some message board?

Simply telling me I'll be some kind of rational elite for embracing your point of view isn't enough. All the rational "grip" of only the world we can see is nothing without morality. It's nothing without hope.

Go rent "Man of La Mancha" sometime to see what I mean.

I don't know; I'm sure you'll come back with any number of points of argument I've not only heard before, but ironically probably once said with as much vigor as you do now. But understand, I'm not trying to convert you. I'm just trying to explain why my faith matters to me.

Ultimately, you quoted Heinlein, so you get cool points by definition. I'm a published author of speculative fiction, and Heinlein's "Starship Troopers" is one of his many works that enriched this genre of fiction.

May God bless you, and bring you some peace. I don't say that to insult you or demean you; it is honestly because it's the right thing to wish someone that has so much contempt for what you believe. In fact, it's commanded by an out-of-date book that advocated universal peace, love and brotherhood in a time when mercurial human "reasoning" was more concerned with enlightened concepts like vomitoriums.

So, may God bless you, and good luck.

Thu, 05/05/2011 - 22:41 | 1246225 mtomato2
mtomato2's picture

I just cut-and-pasted your missive here and sent it to a few select friends of mine to prove to them that what I've been saying is, indeed, true:  Zero Hedge is without doubt the most colorful, educated, well-spoken and diverse bunch of bloggers I've ever come across.  Your piece here is proof of intelligent life on earth.  And grace among men.  Via con Dios.

Thu, 05/05/2011 - 16:56 | 1245133 cgbspender
cgbspender's picture

Jesus fucking goddamn christ. Can't a man blaspheme nowadays without ruffling some feathers?

Thu, 05/05/2011 - 17:02 | 1245166 legal eagle
legal eagle's picture

The fact that people like you feel the need to offend for no reason is why there is so much horror in the world.  Your mother would be ashamed of you.

Thu, 05/05/2011 - 17:30 | 1245276 kornholio
kornholio's picture

theists offend me

Thu, 05/05/2011 - 17:54 | 1245354 Dr. Porkchop
Dr. Porkchop's picture

Merlin's beard!

Thu, 05/05/2011 - 18:39 | 1245503 theopco
theopco's picture


Thu, 05/05/2011 - 20:37 | 1245953 cgbspender
cgbspender's picture

The fact that people like you feel the need to offend for no reason is why there is so much horror in the world.  Your mother would be ashamed of you.


The fact that you have such a blind allegiance to structural norms is the reason why we have a nation of borg-sheep.

Thu, 05/05/2011 - 17:15 | 1245192 Problem Is
Problem Is's picture

Spastica Rex: "Jesus"

TM: "First, please don't use the Lord's name for reasons other than worship."

Allow Me To Retort:
Half of Mexico is named "Hey-Zeus"... spelled "Jesus," 90% catholic, baptized and approved name and all by the Pope... On the rules of God and what constitutes heresy... I think the Pope out ranks you...

What say you Texas Gum-slinger?

Thu, 05/05/2011 - 17:49 | 1245339 JW n FL
JW n FL's picture
Republican-controlled committee voted for a 18-month delay of regulations intended to reduce risk in OTC derivatives.
Thu, 05/05/2011 - 16:15 | 1244921 lieutenantjohnchard
lieutenantjohnchard's picture

lol. thanks. i needed a good laugh after today.

Thu, 05/05/2011 - 16:16 | 1244922 Roy Bush
Roy Bush's picture

Anybody here sell lube?  Because I'm taking it hard...ouch!

Thu, 05/05/2011 - 16:26 | 1245009 I Am The Unknow...
I Am The Unknown Comic's picture

Nope, none to spare and I'm rationing mine.  SLV puts have helped alleviate the situation but it would be just my luck to buy more here and get toasted on this side of the trade too.  Judging by the dollar index (DXY) it looks like a lot of us are taking profits wherever they are, booking losses especially in paper silver, and building cash for the "bottom" (wherever the hell that is) in order to come back in.  I'm shopping for cheap July SLV calls. 

Fuck what a mess of a past several days.  Good luck.

Thu, 05/05/2011 - 17:45 | 1245336 RockyRacoon
RockyRacoon's picture

What?   Another paper trader bites the dust?   Oooooops.

Thu, 05/05/2011 - 18:07 | 1245387 I Am The Unknow...
I Am The Unknown Comic's picture

Yeah Rocky I know; believe me I know.  Man you ain't gotta rub it in!  ;>)

Thanks to my puts I'm holding out ok and will go down but won't go out. 

I continue to be a big fan of physical and like most everybody else here I don't give a shit what Kitco or anybody else says it's worth. 

However, I do still trade the paper too.  It has been profitable.  I hope to catch some good action to the upside of this eventual paper bottom....wherever the hell that may be.    

Thu, 05/05/2011 - 16:40 | 1245089 Clamdigger
Clamdigger's picture

There's taking it hard, then there's taking it Boston-altar-boy hard.

Thu, 05/05/2011 - 16:51 | 1245120 mayhem_korner
mayhem_korner's picture


Thu, 05/05/2011 - 17:15 | 1245230 Problem Is
Problem Is's picture

LOL... +5
Cardinal Bernard Law hereby <UNJUNK>'s you, my son...

Fri, 05/06/2011 - 02:11 | 1246522 chindit13
chindit13's picture

That's the wicked baddest analogy I've ever seen!

Thu, 05/05/2011 - 17:49 | 1245341 JW n FL
JW n FL's picture
Republican-controlled committee voted for a 18-month delay of regulations intended to reduce risk in OTC derivatives.
Thu, 05/05/2011 - 18:14 | 1245413 Hook Line and S...
Hook Line and Sphincter's picture

you forgot the cube symbol on the 18th month

Thu, 05/05/2011 - 22:34 | 1244899 fuu
fuu's picture


Thu, 05/05/2011 - 16:27 | 1244997 BillyTheBlade
BillyTheBlade's picture

Please read the article befor you post.  Thank you.

Thu, 05/05/2011 - 16:32 | 1245030 johngaltfla
johngaltfla's picture

This is what a liquidity crisis looks like. Don't believe me, pull up the 1-3-6-1 charts.

1 month

3 month

6 month

and 1 year Treasuries. The top two have negative yields. The 6 month I have a last quote around 0.03%. The 1 year is near it's all time record low set the other day. They sell commodities first to raise cash, small and mid caps, then the big ones.

We've seen this movie before, it's called:


Somebody's tit is in a ringer and I'm betting it is several large European institutions that thought they could play the dollar carry trade and it blew up in their face because the U.S. economy is actually a lot crappier than the American people will believe and are being told by the financial infomercial business networks.

Buckle up, May and June will be a whipsaw period followed by a major DCB in July to August then "poof".....(or Ka-Boom)

Thu, 05/05/2011 - 17:01 | 1245148 VegasBD
VegasBD's picture


Here's to hoping Silver retraces 50% this time too!

Thu, 05/05/2011 - 18:51 | 1245545 goldfreak
goldfreak's picture

and somebody stupid enough to sell it near spot

Thu, 05/05/2011 - 18:52 | 1245546 goldfreak
goldfreak's picture

being able to buy silver below 30 again would be a dream, but i doubt it will happen

Thu, 05/05/2011 - 17:18 | 1245233 pan-the-ist
pan-the-ist's picture

You're exactly right.  Those fuckers can somehow always stay a day ahead of the dumb money.

Thu, 05/05/2011 - 18:25 | 1245441 Richard640
Richard640's picture

QE to margin increases to infinity!

We often talk about QE to infinity…now we have to talk about margin increases to infinity…the CME is increasing silver margins tonight and on Monday–that’s what? 6 or 7 hikes in the last 5-10 days? No market can withstand that…and nevermind all the brave talk about the physical market going one way and the crimminal COMEX/CME going the other…physical prices WILL drop too…so how do I bottom fish a government hijacked market? Glad I dumped ALL my ussif 3 weeks ago.

I thought a bad employment report tomorrow would cause the $ to plunge and PMs and commods would turn up…but this is a Jihad today!!-I would normally say these deep, sharp corrections are typical of a strong bull mkt & a buying opp.—but with this crimminality to the max of the CME/COMEX…I gotta wonder if even dialogue of  QE to infinity will help…so I am not banking on tommorow will help....yet silver is deeply oversold...I'm keepin my cajones crossed!

Thu, 05/05/2011 - 16:15 | 1244842 Muir
Muir's picture


Let me take a wild stab at it.


The upper 1/10th of 1% having already been bailed out (as they were the bond holders to the TBTF) now will not get hurt if austerity/deflation kicks in?



 Certainly telegraphed (at least as I saw it at the time) PIMPCO Soros, "austerity," bankrupt municipalities, cut backs in all social services (schools, Hospitals etc.)


And then, as many here pointed out, most everybody on the same side of the ship (even my dentist was buying silver)

Said it many times, deflation is  certainly a possibility (specially now that it will not hurt the very wealthy amongst us) 



Thu, 05/05/2011 - 17:35 | 1245292 Popo
Popo's picture

Not to mention the fact that there is *nothing* the elites like more than 15% interest rates risk free.   Deflation does not suck for them at all.  

Thu, 05/05/2011 - 16:05 | 1244848 supernickel
supernickel's picture

We're back to deflation, and that's necessary, otherwise gas prices (and commodity prices and all their follow-on price increases) will put us straight into a recession this summer.

Deflate until everything is stabilized and then QE3.

Thu, 05/05/2011 - 16:28 | 1245001 Texas Gunslinger
Texas Gunslinger's picture

We're not necessarily going into a period of general deflation.

The market is just deflating those assets that need it, as it always does eventually. Nothing needed it more than commodities, especially silver and oil. 

Everyone could see this, except for a few narrow-minded fanatics and those that are easily duped.




Thu, 05/05/2011 - 16:27 | 1245019 morph
morph's picture

Everyone always has perfect hindsight.

Thu, 05/05/2011 - 16:43 | 1245095 MachoMan
MachoMan's picture

Aside from the fact that we're all just waiting around for the currency to die...  I guess we can bicker with one another about what happens in the meantime, but it seems kind of short sighted...

Thu, 05/05/2011 - 16:45 | 1245104 Texas Gunslinger
Texas Gunslinger's picture

Everyone has perfect hindsight.

And some have ridiculous foresight based on fanaticism and disinformation - a lethal cocktail that the Wall Street casinos (and their affiliates) mix when the pit bosses need more players.



Thu, 05/05/2011 - 17:04 | 1245179 Abiggs
Abiggs's picture

How is anyone surprised that today went down as it did?

Thu, 05/05/2011 - 17:48 | 1245333 wirtschaftswunder
wirtschaftswunder's picture

Yep, the guy tmosley on Monday calling for $49 silver by Friday. His asshole is rawly surprised.

Thu, 05/05/2011 - 18:31 | 1245468 tmosley
tmosley's picture

long juan silver is still a moron.

Thu, 05/05/2011 - 18:17 | 1245429 Jendrzejczyk
Jendrzejczyk's picture

God give you any hints on where silver will bottom?

Thu, 05/05/2011 - 19:18 | 1245663 mt paul
mt paul's picture

32.50 $

god has little to do with it...

Thu, 05/05/2011 - 17:32 | 1245269 Absinthe Minded
Absinthe Minded's picture

Soros is fuckin' Nostradamus. Sold his gold just in time, it's almost like he knew... Prick.

Thu, 05/05/2011 - 21:57 | 1246149 OldTrooper
OldTrooper's picture

it's almost like he knew... don't really think everything that's happening now is just the invisible hand, do you?

Thu, 05/05/2011 - 17:00 | 1245159 Calmyourself
Calmyourself's picture

Amazing how fast your vocabulary went from aw shucks, golly gee to this.. You seem so much more sophisticated, just finish up "St. Mary's finishing school for the discerning troll" PBUH.

Thu, 05/05/2011 - 17:21 | 1245249 pan-the-ist
pan-the-ist's picture

BTFD.  Pull your balls out and put them on the table.

Thu, 05/05/2011 - 18:19 | 1245428 Hook Line and S...
Hook Line and Sphincter's picture

Only those who BTFPhysicalD  at <20 have the fortitude to move ahead. 

Thu, 05/05/2011 - 17:07 | 1245181 Hephasteus
Hephasteus's picture

You forgot to stay in character.

Thu, 05/05/2011 - 18:12 | 1245407 Richard Head
Richard Head's picture

Jesus Christ!

Thu, 05/05/2011 - 16:30 | 1245032 MachoMan
MachoMan's picture

ummm...  isn't a collapse in the markets (among others) also going to end up causing a recession?

Thu, 05/05/2011 - 16:40 | 1245073 supernickel
supernickel's picture

yes, we are there already anyway, but when gas prices are back to $2.50 people don't blame Washington

Thu, 05/05/2011 - 16:39 | 1245083 SheepDog-One
SheepDog-One's picture

We never got out of the first 2008 collapse and depression. Just papered over it.

Thu, 05/05/2011 - 16:43 | 1245090 supernickel
supernickel's picture

true true

Thu, 05/05/2011 - 16:06 | 1244851 Spastica Rex
Spastica Rex's picture

Your troll-fu is strong.

Thu, 05/05/2011 - 16:31 | 1245039 I Am The Unknow...
I Am The Unknown Comic's picture

Yes, The Farce in him is strong, it is. 

Thu, 05/05/2011 - 17:11 | 1245210 wirtschaftswunder
wirtschaftswunder's picture

I see two bozos with newly distended assholes

Thu, 05/05/2011 - 17:34 | 1245279 tmosley
tmosley's picture

I see a whining crybaby who lashes out at random people because he is insecure about himself.

Thu, 05/05/2011 - 17:37 | 1245293 wirtschaftswunder
wirtschaftswunder's picture

Silver $49 tommorrow?

Thu, 05/05/2011 - 17:43 | 1245329 tmosley
tmosley's picture

Paradigm shift was recognized yesterday (and predicted months ago).

Paper silver will now trend toward zero on high volatility, while physical will trend higher, also with high volatility.  That is, until a COMEX default.  Then physical goes to the moon, and paper returns to its intrinsic value.

Thu, 05/05/2011 - 17:48 | 1245343 wirtschaftswunder
wirtschaftswunder's picture



On a long enough timeline....

Do NOT follow this link or you will be banned from the site!