What Stands In The Way Of Taxing Derivatives: 1,479+ Lobbyists
There are about $1.4 quadrillion of them. So why not tax them? As Tim Geithner says "That's not something we are prepared to support." Some are curious, who is this editorial "we" in this case. According to a co-sponsor of an upcoming bill, he has been called three times by none other than Jamie Dimon to promote the party line...guess which side of the fence the JPM CEO is on.
An just in case there is still any confusion about the size of the Wall Street's lobby tsunami (and the implication of what happens to politicians' wallets without it), here is a comprehensive overview by Bloomberg. In brief, as Shopyield points out:
- Citigroup - 46 lobbyists
- Chamber of Commerce - 46 lobbyists
- American Bankers Association - 44 lobbyists
- Prudential - 41 lobbyists
- SIFMA - 36 lobbyists
- Managed Funds Association - 31 lobbyists
- Goldman Sachs - 29 lobbyists
- American Insurance Association - 29 lobbyists
- Charles Schwab - 28 lobbyists
- Investment Company Institute - 28 lobbyists
- Industry total = 1479 lobbyists
- Consumer total = 58 lobbyists
- Ratio of 25 to 1
(3 votes)
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on Sat, 11/21/2009 - 17:58
#138378
The linked story (excerpt below) is less off-topic than it may appear.
The suspects allegedly would sever victims' heads, arms and legs, remove organs and suspend torsos from hooks above candles, which warmed the flesh as the fat dripped into tubs below. Members claimed other gangs were engaged in similar killings.
Bonus! The story refers to Fight Club liposuction scam...
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/nov/20/peru-gang-killing-human-fat
on Sat, 11/21/2009 - 18:43
#138408
A few brief background comments on the story you linked to:
1) The folktale figure of the 'pishtaco' (from 'pishtay', to garrote, to kill) is very old, very old.
2) PNP is making up a story to use as cover for the people they murdered around Bagua back in June.
3) En fin, caca de caballo.
on Sat, 11/21/2009 - 18:45
#138410
Selling your fat (dot) com >>>>> is all mine :)
on Sat, 11/21/2009 - 20:23
#138463
Okay. But "Cash for Golden Human Lipids" is mine.
on Sat, 11/21/2009 - 17:59
#138379
in the future, in the future...yah timmay
on Sat, 11/21/2009 - 17:59
#138380
We'll end up like Rome and welcome the New Dark Ages, probably in the next 2 decades or when the oil runs out
on Sat, 11/21/2009 - 18:00
#138381
I admit I don't know much about the US and the lobbying thing, but this sounds very much like legalised bribery to me from the sound of it!
on Sat, 11/21/2009 - 18:03
#138382
When discussing the CEO of JPM it would be helpful to post a visual.
I adore the irony of Timmy claiming to be working to limit the exposure of "taxpayer's" to loss.
on Sat, 11/21/2009 - 19:14
#138426
Lizzy, you got me hooked on tags now.
on Sat, 11/21/2009 - 19:50
#138446
@lizzy timmay is just a puppet. here's an idea - not mine - how about when a bank fails, it files for chapter 11 bankruptcy? no need to write new laws on how to save the taxpayers money.
on Sat, 11/21/2009 - 18:43
#138407
> There are about $1.4 quadrillion of them. So why not tax them?
Ignoring the question of what should and should not be taxed (I think a Tobin tax is a horrible idea) - how on earth do you think those *could* be taxed.
Most of that notional amount of derivatives are CDSs that are just private contracts between 2 private companies (with some of the counter-parties being non US entities).... and while I think a Tobin tax on financial transactions of any sort is a terrible idea, credit swaps seems like they would be in the group of financial assets/instruments to tax, as the counter-parties could easily transact their private contracts in any country not dumb enough to impose said tax.
At least with equities and other publicly traded assets and contracts (including some derivatives but a small amount of the total notional value of all derivatives), there is a hurdle towards moving the trading to a tax-free haven, but with CDSs - no such hurdle exists.
on Sat, 11/21/2009 - 18:45
#138411
"would be in the group of financial assets/instruments to tax"
Should read:
"would be in the group of financial assets/instruments hardest (nearly impossible) to tax"
on Sat, 11/21/2009 - 19:27
#138437
Why not a transaction tax on securities to pay for all the welfare supplied to Wall Street by the tax payer?
You fucked it up, you pay for it Jamie and Lloyd Blank-dick...
Goldman reaps a HFT transaction tax on the market everyday. What is good for Goldman should be good for the tax payer.
on Sat, 11/21/2009 - 23:39
#138562
Your back?
on Sun, 11/22/2009 - 09:19
#138651
> private contracts between 2 private companies
In fact, there is a third party in any bilateral contract--the party that enforces the contract (i.e. the courts system). If you wanted to tax OTC derivatives the legal system could simply refuse to accept any derivative/contract on which the duty has not been paid.
Many jurisdictions tax insurance policies; why would a derivative be so different?
on Sat, 11/21/2009 - 20:19
#138414
Cut to the chase. Eliminate the middle men/women/other (CONgress) and the political judiciaries, and let the CB's proxify the next assemantic prose-Czar. Make-believe hath become boorish. BTW, I have a Kevorkian double-barrel shotgun. One pull of the trigger, two rounds exit in opposite directions. I call it my "Goderator".
on Sat, 11/21/2009 - 19:46
#138444
I do not willingly watch the maggot geithner ever.
on Sat, 11/21/2009 - 20:10
#138459
Maggot. It suits.
on Sat, 11/21/2009 - 20:37
#138469
More pro tax propaganda. I expect nothing less from the folks at ZeroHedge. Now for more bs comments from people that support your idea in the comments section. Make sure the people who call out your BS don't get heard just like before (my comments have been denied 3 times)... Go back to your tin foil hat conspiracy rants about Goldman and JPM controling the world and leave those of us that put food on the table trading alone. In other words find another group to tax.
on Sun, 11/22/2009 - 10:30
#138668
How did 138469 slip through the denial filter ??
Clean out your desk, Tyler.
on Sat, 11/21/2009 - 21:02
#138481
Bust the financial trusts
By Rep. Marcy Kaptur
The giant firms have already shown us they are impervious to regulation. They exploit loopholes almost before Washington has created them.
The FBI told America in 2004 that fraud was rampant in the mortgage sector. Fraud takes many forms, including control fraud. That is why I have introduced legislation, H.R. 3995, which would authorize the use of funds for the FBI to muscle up with 1,000 additional agents who would be assigned to mortgage, corporate and securities fraud investigations. We need 1,000 agents, not a few hundred, to untangle what might well be the largest financial swindle in U.S. history
http://thehill.com/special-reports/taxes-a-banking-november-2009/68473-bust-the-financial-trusts
on Sat, 11/21/2009 - 21:28
#138492
Why not require a $30,000 annual lobbyist registration fee on people who are paid to make direct contact with members of congress and officials of the federal executive branch.
on Sat, 11/21/2009 - 22:04
#138515
Already required--except the check is made out to Congressional political action committees.
Also there might be a pesky Constitutional issue regarding the First amendment right to petition your government that would come into play with a "fee".
on Sat, 11/21/2009 - 21:45
#138506
Good stuff, Tyler. Thanks for all you do.
on Sat, 11/21/2009 - 21:53
#138509
-
on Sat, 11/21/2009 - 23:08
#138550
I think the easiest way to tax derivatives is at the clearing houses and trade repositories. Then taxes can be remitted back to the countries where the subsidiary or bank holding company is domiciled.
on Sun, 11/22/2009 - 19:31
#138877
100+
on Sun, 11/22/2009 - 01:47
#138590
bush pulled the fbi off financial crime, and put them on the war on terror deal. we would be in better shape if we had only endured a terrorist attack.
on Sun, 11/22/2009 - 01:49
#138591
Tax the lobbyists. One man is entitled to one vote. A group pooling money to in essence buy more votes is what has been screwing up this country for too long.
Yes, you have the right to petition the government as an individual. But I think that as a group, you do not have that right, At least, you shouldn't have that right tax-free. So for every $1.00 that a lobbying group takes in, let's tax them $.98. They can then get their TWO CENTS WORTH.
on Sun, 11/22/2009 - 03:38
#138614
1.
My interests as a consumer are NOT represented by UNION lobbyists, so don't put us in the same basket.
2.
Just because a lot of lobbyists are against it doesn't make legislation good. We should be talking about where Congress f'd up in the first place, which was from all the bailouts. Had they not done the bailouts, they wouldn't need a tax in the first place. Go to the root of the problem.
on Sun, 11/22/2009 - 09:16
#138649
Deny personhood to corporations and they then would lose their right to petition the government.
on Sun, 11/22/2009 - 09:27
#138652
Citi bank which is owned by tax payers hired highest number of lobbyists. Why don't they ban lobbying by banks which are owned by tax payers or bailed out.
I failed to understand why this lobbying is allowed. Lobbying looks like a corruption.
on Sun, 11/22/2009 - 21:01
#138911
And people wonder how and why the excesses of the French Revolution occurred!?!