What You Need To Know About Buying Silver At A Time When Even The Canadian Mint Says "It Has Sold Everything It Has"

Tyler Durden's picture

Even as silver performed some unprecedented fireworks today, plunging on what was a margin hike in... crude, the metal continues to trade just below its post-Hunt Brother highs. So for those who still have not decided whether or not to take the plunge and buy into the precious metal (which, granted, was selling at $8.80 three years ago, and has since nearly quadrupled in price), we present the following discussion between Jeff Clark of Casey Research and The Daily Crux, which answers "what you need to know about buying silver today." This comes a week after we first highlighted that the Canadian Mint has sold it last stock in silver and has demand for much more.

As we said back then:

We have sold everything we can produce in silver and have demand for at least twice that volume,” said David Madge, head of bullion sales at the Royal Canadian Mint, which produces the silver Maple Leaf coin.

So now that you know what the considerations are of one of the biggest players in the space, here is Casey Research's Jeff Clark:

What You Need to Know About Buying Silver Today

It’s hard to believe that less than three years ago, silver was
$8.80 an ounce. Since then it has nearly quadrupled in value (up 385%)
and more than doubled in the last 12 months alone.

That’s great for those who already own the metal – but is it too late for the rest of us to get in?

To answer that question, BIG GOLD
Editor Jeff Clark sat down with our friends of The Daily Crux. Read
what he had to say about the silver rally, and why you should view any
correction as good news.

Crux: Jeff, silver has had an incredible run over the past year or so... Where do you think it's headed next?

Jeff Clark: Well, that's probably the most common
question we get these days. Silver has definitely been very exciting.
The price has basically doubled in a year, and many of the stocks have
done much better than that... So you could be forgiven for asking how
long that can continue.

I think the bullish case for silver going forward comes down to three main factors.
The first is industrial demand. Everyone knows industrial use is much
greater for silver than gold, and that does make it more susceptible to
an economic slowdown. But what's interesting is these industrial uses
are growing rapidly.

For example, all of the following uses for silver are increasing:
medical, electronics, food processing, water treatment, paper, building
materials, wood preservation, textiles, consumer products... the list
goes on and on. Every bandage-maker, for example, now offers a
silver-based product. You can buy silver-laced toothbrushes,
hairbrushes, combs, and make-up applicators. In England, you can buy
silver-based soap.

The takeaway is that all these uses are on the rise, so even in an
economic slowdown, there is a higher level of base demand. The demand
for any individual application could decline, but the total number of
applications for silver is increasing. Over time, I think we'll see
increasing levels of demand.

The second major factor is investment demand. Investment demand is
soaring and can't be ignored. The U.S. Mint sold more one-ounce Silver
Eagles in January than in any other month since they began creating
them in 1986. China's net imports of silver quadrupled in 2010. Against
all this you have the fact that most Americans don't own any gold or
especially silver. So even though there's already incredible investment
demand, the potential for it to increase is still tremendous.

The third factor is supply. Ask yourself what's wrong with this
picture: Total global demand for silver is about 890 million ounces a
year. Worldwide mine production is about 720 million ounces a year.
Scrap currently makes up the difference, but I think the crucial point
to recognize is that producers can't dig up enough silver to meet
current demand.

So what happens if industrial uses continue to rise? What happens if
investment demand continues growing? What happens if we do get some
type of currency collapse? What happens if Doug Casey is right and we
get a true mania in gold and silver?

We had bottleneck issues with physical supply in 2008, where mints
across the world couldn't keep up with orders. A lot of it was due to
them being unprepared for the rush, and they've since improved some of
their operations. That's great.

But even with all the improvements, even after adding equipment, even
after adding staff, even after adding work shifts... they're still
having issues. Over the past three or four months, we've been hearing
about mints having delays, temporarily running out of stock, etc. So
it's still a problem.

And if all the factors I just mentioned come into play, then I think
you could say "Bottleneck, meet desperation." Regardless of how well
prepared a manufacturer might be, demand at some point could
legitimately overwhelm the system, and I think that's a very real
possibility. Anything could happen. But the scary thing is, we may not
have enough supply to meet demand if we get a mania.

So based on these factors, my view is that silver can continue rising
for quite some time. I don't think it stops until SLV, the silver ETF,
is a favorite of the fund managers... until Silver Wheaton is a market
darling of the masses... until Pan American Silver is Wall Street's top
pick for the year... That's when I'll be looking for the end of this
silver bull market.

Crux: Speaking of a mania, just how high do you think silver could go?
Clark: Many people don't realize this, but silver rose
3,646% in the 1970s, from its November '71 low to its January 1980
high. If you were to apply the same percentage rise to our current bull
market, silver would climb another 500% from here, and the price would
hit $160 an ounce.

Those are just numbers, but it shows that we have an established precedent for the price to go much higher.

It's the fundamentals, of course, that will determine how high the
price ultimately goes. Show me a healthy dollar, show me no threat of
inflation, show me a responsible government that stops printing
money... Show me a repentant Iran and North Korea... Show me that the
sovereign debt issues in Europe are resolved... Show me positive real
interest rates... Show me that unemployment is plummeting, that bank
closures have stopped, that real estate is recovering...

Show me all that and we'll talk about the gold and silver run being
over... But until those things start changing in a big way, I'm buying.

Crux: Silver bears often suggest that a large part of
the rally in the last bull market was due to the Hunt brothers, who
were accused of trying to corner the market. What do you say to that?
How much do you think they attributed to the price rise in the '70s?

Clark: Well, I'm skeptical that the reason silver went
as high as it did was primarily due to the Hunt brothers' activity in
the market. It's interesting to note that they bought silver primarily
because they mistrusted the government, and because they thought silver
was going to be confiscated. Remember... gold ownership was illegal
when they first started buying silver in the early '70s.

Yes, they bought a lot of silver... But if you look at the correlation,
you'll notice the price didn't necessarily move up when they bought.
In fact, when the rumors that they were trying to "corner" the silver
market really started going mainstream, which was in the spring of
1974, the silver price dropped solidly for the next two years. One
would think that the price would've risen, not fallen, if silver was
being "cornered."

Secondly, if you look at price charts, silver moved in lockstep with
gold back then. They rose and fell pretty much together. They both
peaked on the very same day, January 21, 1980. So unless the gold
market was equally spooked by what the Hunt brothers were doing with
silver, it seems a stretch to assume they were the primary cause of the

Last, as my editor pointed out, you have to consider that it was the
mainstream media that largely promoted this idea the Hunts were
"cornering" the market. With that in mind, one has to be suspicious
that was, in fact, the case.

To be clear, I'm sure they had some effect, but to suggest they were
the main impetus behind silver's tremendous rise doesn't seem wholly
accurate. And look at the price today... It's outperforming gold in our
current bull market, just as it did in the '70s, and there's no Nelson
Bunker Hunt around.

Besides... who's to say that we won't see other "Hunts" come along
today and try to buy up large quantities of the metal? I wouldn't rule
it out.

So again, I think it's more important to look at silver's fundamentals
for any kind of price projection than a one-off event. And those
fundamentals are very bullish.

Crux: What are the bearish arguments for silver?

Clark: Well, I touched on it earlier... but if the
economy crashes, silver is likely to suffer more than gold due to its
large industrial use component. Another factor is that silver is not
bought by central banks, so one source of demand for gold is not
present with silver. But I think the bigger trend of a currency crisis
is going to dwarf those concerns... And I think that silver will do very
well in that environment.

Silver is more volatile than gold, but that just means you get better
opportunities to buy it cheaper, and probably make more money on it if
you sell near the top.

So yes, there are bearish arguments for silver, and one has to be
prudent in buying it – you don't want it to be the only asset you own,
for example. But it would be equally a mistake to not own a meaningful

Crux: So... is today a good time to buy?

Clark: Well, how many ounces do you own? And what percentage of your assets do those ounces represent?

There's your answer. If you have minimal or no exposure, I suggest
buying. Don't rush out and spend all your available cash, because there
will always be corrections, but the less you own, the more you want to
make a plan to add a meaningful amount to your portfolio.

Remember... silver is a currency replacement just like gold. It's
money... and therefore you want to make sure you own enough for both
protection and profit. If you don't own enough, I suggest going into
"accumulation" mode... buying some on a regular basis, like dollar-cost

Our recommendation in Casey's BIG GOLD
which is a conservative letter, by the way – is that approximately
one-third of your investable assets be devoted to the precious metals
market. That includes gold, silver, and precious metal stocks. That may
sound extreme to some, but we think the risk to currencies right now
is extreme. Therefore, being overweight precious metals is justified.
Obviously, each individual investor has to be comfortable with what
they do.

Crux: Do you a recommend a certain percentage of ounces in silver versus gold?

Clark: We generally recommend you hold more gold than
silver. We suggest approximately 70%-80% in gold versus 20%-30% in
silver. Depending on your situation and risk tolerance, you may wish to
have more or less in silver, but again the point is to have meaningful

Crux: For individuals who are new to buying precious metals, what are your preferred ways to purchase silver?

Clark: The options are becoming more and more
mainstream, so it's getting easier to buy both metals. The alternatives
are growing, and they're also improving. You basically have two
choices: You can either buy and store it yourself, or you can buy and
have someone else store it for you. Ideally, you want to do both... you
want to diversify.

There are risks to storing metals yourself, such as theft, loss, or
fire. You can put it in a safe deposit box, but then it's in the
financial system and it's subject to banking hours and could even be
susceptible to confiscation, though I'm skeptical that will actually
happen. But I do think everyone should have some physical silver handy,
at least a couple months worth of expenses.

So the short answer is to diversify what you buy and how you store it.
For physical silver, I would stick to buying the popular one-ounce
bullion coins – Eagles, Maple Leafs, etc.

You can also buy silver funds and ETFs in your brokerage account or
online, and there are definitely some advantages to doing that. They're
easy to buy, sell, and trade. There's no need to mess with the storage
yourself, and it's especially beneficial for those who have larger
holdings. You can put $50,000 worth of gold in the palm of your hand –
but $50,000 worth of silver would require a small suitcase, so space is
an issue. A lot of online options now have delivery alternatives
available, and some even have free storage. Options here include the
various ETFs, closed-end funds, online options like GoldMoney or
BullionVault, and certificate programs like the Perth Mint Certificate.

So find a couple options you're comfortable with, diversify your
holdings, and just continue to buy on the dips, with the intention to
hold until the bull market is over.

Crux: How about silver stocks. Can you give us a favorite?

Clark: Well, it's pretty clear the go-to stock in the
silver industry – in my opinion at least – is Silver Wheaton. It's
definitely been a sweetheart the past two years. It's given us
everything we could want in a silver stock.

The stock suffered badly in the meltdown of '08, and things did get a
little dicey at the time, but I remember thinking that unless the world
comes to an end and the silver price never recovers, this company is
going to survive and bounce back – in part because of management and in
part because of the business model. They have no exposure to mining
costs, for example.

Shares back then were around $3... If you bought at the time, they're now a ten-bagger. So it's been an incredible run.

The question, of course, is going forward: Since the stock is already at $35, can it be another ten-bagger from here?

Well, the company expects to increase "production" by 70% by 2013. And
their costs will basically stay stagnant. Meanwhile, imagine where the
silver price could be in the next two to three years, and you can see
this company can make enormous amounts of cash. Some of that is
probably priced into the stock already, but you can't deny where this
company is headed over the next few years.

In the bigger picture, you have to look at our currency issues –
they're very real. They're deep. They're intractable. So when I look at
what is likely to happen to the dollar and thus what level of
inflation is probable, I think silver will go substantially higher,
which means Silver Wheaton is going to go much, much higher. Only if
you believe deflation ultimately wins the war and that inflation
doesn't occur do you think silver or Silver Wheaton won't do well.

Could it have a big correction? Well, it recently dropped as much as
28%, but sure... it could easily fall more than that in a major
correction. But if that happened, I'd consider it a big buying

In my opinion, the bigger the correction, the bigger the buying
opportunity, because I really believe the future is very bright for
that company.

Crux: Sounds good. Any parting thoughts?

Clark: If you're bullish on gold, I think you need to
be bullish on silver, unless you think inflation will never come to
pass. Regardless of the short-term fluctuations in the market, it's
only a matter of time before the currency issues punch us in the gut
and inflation really takes off.

Second, remember that silver will be volatile, but focus on the
fundamentals and use selloffs as buying opportunities. Until the
fundamentals driving the bull market change, buy.

Bottom line, the bull market is far from over. I think it's going to go
much longer and much stronger... So buying on dips is the best advice I
could give anyone.

Crux: Thanks for talking with us, Jeff.

Clark: You're welcome. Thanks for having me.

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66Sexy's picture

i keep hearing about 'shortages', yet theres plenty of silver at apmex i noticed.... someone go buy up all those monster boxes over there; once apmex has shortages, THEN i'll be convinced.


Or perhaps they are referring to 'BIG money buyers... like, for people with 1 mil plus to spend on silver. Then theres shortages? i know you wouldnt have any problems buying 1 mil bucks worth of shares of SLV...

JonNadler's picture

no shortage of SLV shares, that's for sure, after all, they don't need silver at SLV, they don't need, they don't have it and it won't be there

Harmonious_Dissonance's picture

Well the shortages are built in, when the big boys start catching wind of "shortage" they may just decide to audit their holdings. I wonder if the TBTF will find a way to have the same small pile of silver in 5 different places at once? PSLV trades above NAV, why? Fractional Reserve Vault storage!! Too bad they still charge fees to you, because that vault is empty brother!!

JohnG's picture

"Fractional Reserve Vault storage!!"

I disagree, and would go so far as to say that this is not a true statement.  I think you do not have any idea about which you write.

Sprott has the silver.  Go read the prospectus and learn something.

I own a mountain of PSLV, and I wouldn't if I didn't know what I was owning.

Harmonious_Dissonance's picture

I was trying to say that's why PSLV is popular, it's audited.

JohnG's picture

OK.  Your sentence structure confused me :)

goldmaple70's picture

While Sprott may have had a stack of silver at that Scotia vault, the PSLV trust has its silver at the Royal Canadian Mint.  That zerohedge article also preceded the launch of the PSLV trust.

VegasBD's picture

If you dont hold it, you dont own it.

JohnG's picture

We disagree, and that's ok.  It's an opinion.

I think it's Graham Summers, article on bullion several days ago.  If I can find it I'll link it in a sec.


edit: Can't find it there are too many articles.  The focus of the article was the various ways to invest in metals.  It confirmed my thinking that if you own a physical trust, like PHYS or PSLV then you do own the bullion.  Either way, I am confortable with Sprott. 

I bought deep in the PSLV ipo, so keep in mind that premium to NAV is profit to me!  I can redeem for physical as well, and I don't have to pay premium over spot to buy elswhere...online, coinshop, etc.



Barmaher's picture

That's bullshit.  If you own it at Bullionvault or Goldmoney it's a lot safer than keeping it at home.  Just ask this poor fool whos home vault got ripped off for $750K of silver bars.    If you want to keep an emergency supply at 'hand' that's one thing.  There's a reason you can't get reasonable insurance for home storage.  





Exposer of Internet Shills's picture

as valid as your point may be (there's always someone who gets ripped off) AND he probably didn't keep his pie=hole shut, the fact remains, If you don't hold it you don't own it despite the possible consequences of it being stolen.

Dr. Porkchop's picture

Yes, I'd have to say that this guy was sitting on a very impressive pile of silver and just couldn't resist either showing someone, or talking about it. That, or his wife or a disgruntled kid sold him out.

Oracle of Kypseli's picture

You need to have two vaults. One with 10% of your stash. The other one should be very well hidden and only you know. Also, for that much money, he should have had gold coins, which are easier to hide. 50-60 times less volume. Think PVC pipe painted gray among other plumbing.  Two meters of PVC will hold 700 1/oz Maples = $1MM

Large silver bar will turn gray after awhile and look like lead. Use it as a doorstop in the bedroom. 

dumpster's picture
by Barmaher
on Thu, 02/24/2011 - 19:48
#995375 \\ gold money bullion vault ,, needs the Internet to sell,,  and they know where you have the account Internet goes down for a week ,, your sucking eggs .  and you sell they transfer the dough to a middle man .. maybe a bank that will release the funds in a week , you know bank holiday and such. Where as silver and gold hidden well ,, can be exchanged for goods ,,, mano to mano , keep thinking the internet is a safe way to go.. 


dhengineer's picture

Central Fund of Canada (CEF) has audited metal as well... it has approximately half silver half gold.  Been holding them in various quantities since the stock was at 8.00.  It's not silver or gold in hand (have that as well) but it is used to pay future bills...

Hook Line and Sphincter's picture

If you have purchased SLV then you likely understand that it uses fractional vault storage. That said, in the case of foreknowledge you'd want to pay these 'storage fees' to protect against those very mean and meddlesome individuals who might audit, take a peak, or elsewise mess with your complicity.

<sarcasm off>

Hearst's picture

Speaking of shortages, the US Mint reports that 'production of uncirculated Silver American Eagles continues to be temporarily suspended because of unprecented demand'


Are we to try and believe that today's smash down in Silver price was anything other than outright manipulation?



BTW is this old news regarding the US Mint?

Herd Redirection Committee's picture

Manipulation undoubtedly.  Ask yourself if you think people will be trading their silver for dollars a few years, or will they be trading silver in exchange for A COMPLETELY new currency.  Probably backed by silver!  You won't really be exchanging your silver, you will be taking bullion in to the Mint, and walking out with money!

Check out the Captial Research Institute's latest, "The Elephant in the Room":


"We have all heard the expression at one time or another. An uncomfortable fact that every one is (at least dimly) aware of, yet is not spoken of. When discussing the global economy, the turmoil and the unrest the world is experiencing the elephant in the room is undoubtedly the Federal Reserve. The Fed (and other central banks) have unleashed the most recent spate of food inflation on the world through their ZIRP (zero interest rate policy) and use of ‘quantitative easing’ (which simply put, is money printing).

Money that would have been kept in savings accounts has been withdrawn (because it earns no interest) and invested largely in stocks, and commodities. On top of that, more money has been conjured into existence, without an increase in real economic activity to accompany it, leaving a larger amount of money chasing the same pile of goods and services. The result, obviously, is a loss of purchasing power, as each newly conjured dollar buys less than the one before it.

Ben Bernanke has come out and attempted to justify his actions, but what has been lost in all his posturing? That the criticism of his policies are legitimate!"

66Sexy's picture

i have to think its manipulation, because the dollar did not benefit... margin selling, nonexistent money buying and selling nonexistent silver determining price; how low can they get the price so we can get physical supplies and turn 'shortage rumors' into reality? imo, the shortages will come on price drops... not price rises.

SilverFiend's picture

Plenty at Provident Metals.  Placed the order yesterday

and it shipped today.  Been in since $15.  Stayin in!

SilverRhino's picture

Thanks for the clue on these guys.  

JLee2027's picture

i keep hearing about 'shortages', yet theres plenty of silver at apmex i noticed.... someone go buy up all those monster boxes over there; once apmex has shortages, THEN i'll be convinced.

Laughable - you clowns can't see the forest for the trees. My wallet has $50 dollars in it. Does this prove I'm got plenty of money?

Nope. It proves I have $50 dollars. That's all. But if I owe a million dollars and only have $50 to pay people with, then yeah I am broke.

66Sexy's picture

nonsense. As long as silver can be bought in bulk (like apmex), then there aint no shortages and I gotta call bullshit. i dont like being led a certain direction when there is plain evidence to the contrary... but i expect there is alot of pent up demand for the physical product and if we see a price collapse we will have no supply and low prices with astronomical premiums... thanks to their paper manipulation.

imo creating a sense of urgency during the price RISE is creationism... and the sense of urgency that will emerge when the prices tank and supplies are gone will be realism. i think we should start underweighing the fiat prices because they will mean less and less over time; especially now the dollar is not benefitting from the silver price drops like it used too..

tmosley's picture

Find me a COMEX deliverable bar available for immediate purchase ANYWHERE.

You can't.  Becuase there is a shortage.

tmosley's picture

Spot +$.60!?  Christ, I might as well buy crappy bars from APMEX (http://www.apmex.com/Product/156/Generic_Silver_999_Fine___As_low_as_089...).  That premium is the HIGHEST I HAVE EVER SEEN for bars of that type.  Normal is 20 cents over spot.

Now APMEX has one as well, for the same premium.  This is nuts.

I'll call them later when they open and see if they have any in stock.  I kind of doubt it.  It looks like they don't update their inventory on that website.

tmosley's picture

I promised to call and I did.  They are all sold out.

APMEX still has two.  Normally they have dozens.  Those two will likely be gone by next week.

searcher68's picture

Same as everywhere else I look. No 100 oz. bars available... None! Only 10 oz. or less. Less than a month ago this was not the case. Everyone and their mother still showed availability on the big bars. There most definitely is a shortage imho.

The Fonz's picture

The point remains and is valid. There are liabilities soon to come due that represent more than can be repaid. This issue has existed since the first receipt for gold was used in transactions. Those who have the vaults and secrets in their favor always find printing a few more receipts a clever idea... until they are destroyed by it. The repetitions of this scenario in history are so regular that the only shocking things about them is that so few people know that this has happened before, or that anyone is surprised when it happens again.

JLee2027's picture

nonsense. As long as silver can be bought in bulk (like apmex), then there aint no shortages and I gotta call bullshit.

As I said...you're a clown.  APMEX is getting crumbs.....Industrials need 10's of million of ounces per month. By the time APMEX runs out, silver will be 500 an ounce.

66Sexy's picture

i hope your right. but your need to insult people when making a counter point shows a lack of maturity, and weakens your argument... not strengthens it.

you are speaking from an emotional standpoint... not a rational one.

DosZap's picture

I caught a spot I liked, yesterday, snagged several bars.Usually I get next day dely (wires), and it did not show.

Called and asked where it was.(once they had a shipment, marked local).

They were out,but since I pulled their chain, they found enough to fill me.

First time since early '09 I have had to wait on any silver bars.

They are sucking wind on Slvr of all kinds now............2 weeks ago, no issues.(unless Eagles/Mapes).

Tapeworm's picture

There were real shortages when slAg collapsed to their 8.80 during the financil/hedgefund rout. The premiums on 1 oz to 1000 oz stuff was far higher than the COMEX price. Premia alway expand greatly during a large price fall.

High Plains Drifter's picture

Kitco has  a buy button by all of their silver and gold charts. They have lots of over priced coins to sell to the suckers.........Maybe you call them up and talk to two tongues Nadler about it.

JonNadler's picture

somebody would like to talk to me? Sure, we have pleeeeeeeeenty of silver at Kitco. Try to buy some though. 


ha ha HA HA ha ha

High Plains Drifter's picture

Nadler and Mish Shedlock are good buddies because they both drink each other's coolaid. I remember a few years ago, they both tried to gang fuck Ted Butler, when he was talking about PM manipulation.  Then later on, they tried to jack with Schiff.

Sokhmate's picture

Mish is out to monetize adwords. Quote me on it.

EscapeKey's picture

I didn't realize "deflation" pulled in that much.

Sokhmate's picture

that's where the irony lies.

DosZap's picture

Add frt if your stateside, and they are not even in the hunt.

JonNadler's picture

Anybody seen Bigger Dickus? he said silver to 25. Now we have Mathman with silver 20.

Troll life expectancy on ZH decreasing rapidly. I give Mathman a week at most

DosZap's picture

Don't know BD, but I agree we will see it at $23-25, and Gold @ 1250/1290, before LAUNCH.

Not that I want it to, but I expect it to, if it does, I smile and BTD.

RockyRacoon's picture

MethMan blew his cover by admitting he has a Ferrari and a beach house instead of solid, appreciating assets.   He might just be gone from these hallowed halls.