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Whistleblower Exposes JP Morgan's Silver Manipulation Scheme

Tyler Durden's picture


Earlier today the CFTC held a sham hearing in which, among other things, the organization discussed position limits in PM speculation, because, you know, it's the mom and pop speculators that destroy the precious metal market (not JP Morgan or the New York Fed mind you). The hearing could not have come at a more opportune time. GATA has just broken a major story, in which a London metals trader-slash-whistleblower exposes JP Morgan's silver price suppression/manipulation scheme. At this point none of this should be at all shocking, and the only thing that matters is when CFTC's ex-Goldmanite Gary Gensler will be fired for allowing hundreds of billions of dollars to be sucked out of the PM market on behalf of such major market manipulating entities as JP Morgan and the New York Federal Reserve, for whom it transacts. Don't worry - the answer to that rhetorical question is "never", as it is the administration's goal to make all the millionaires among the bulge bracket firms billionaires, via legalized theft from honest investors. Furthermore, if indeed the CFTC is complicit in these manipulative events, as GATA suggest, we hope our objective mainstream media readers enjoin GATA in seeking justice for this criminal breach of proper regulatory enforcement.

From GATA:

Additional Statement by Bill Murphy, Chairman
Gold Anti-Trust Action Committee

to the U.S. Commodity Futures Trading Commission
Washington, D.C., March 25, 2010

On March 23, 2010, GATA Director Adrian Douglas was contacted by a
whistleblower by the name of Andrew Maguire. Maguire is a metals trader
in London. He has been told first-hand by traders working for
JPMorganChase that JPMorganChase manipulates the precious metals
markets, and they have bragged to how they make money doing so.

In November 2009 Maguire contacted the CFTC enforcement division to
report this criminal activity. He described in detail the way JPMorgan
Chase signals to the market its intention to take down the precious
metals. Traders recognize these signals and make money shorting the
metals alongside JPM. Maguire explained how there are routine market
manipulations at the time of option expiry, non-farm payroll data
releases, and COMEX contract rollover, as well as ad-hoc events.

On February 3 Maguire gave two days' warning by e-mail to Eliud
Ramirez, a senior investigator for the CFTC's Enforcement Division,
that the precious metals would be attacked upon the release of the
non-farm payroll data on February 5. On February 5, as market events
played out exactly as predicted, further e-mails were sent to Ramirez
while the manipulation was in progress.

It would not be possible to predict such a market move unless the market was manipulated.

In an e-mail on February 5 Maguire wrote: "It is common knowledge here
in London among the metals traders that it is JPM's intent to flush out
and cover as many shorts as possible prior to any discussion in March
about position limits. I feel sorry for all those not in this loop. A
serious amount of money was made and lost today and in my opinion as a
result of the CFTC's allowing by your own definition an illegal
concentrated and manipulative position to continue."

Expiry of the COMEX April call options is tomorrow, March 26.
There was large open interest in strikes from $1,100 to $1,150 in gold.
As always happens month after month, HSBC and JPM sell short in large
quantities to overwhelm all bids and make unsuspecting option holders
lose their money. As predicted by GATA, the manipulation started on
March 19, when gold was trading at $1,126. Last night it traded at

This is how much the gold cartel fears the CFTC's enforcement
division. They thumb their noses at you because in more than a decade
of complaints and 18 months of a silver market manipulation
investigation nothing has been done to stop them. And this is why JPM's
cocky and arrogant traders in London are able to brag that they
manipulate the market.

This is an outrage and we are making available to the press the e-mails from Maguire wherein he warns of a manipulative event.

Additionally Maguire informed us that he has tape recordings of his
telephone communications with the CFTC, which we are taking the
appropriate legal steps to acquire.

* * *

From: Andrew Maguire
Sent: Tuesday, January 26, 2010 12:51 PM
To: Ramirez, Eliud [CFTC]
Cc: Chilton, Bart [CFTC]
Subject: Silver today

Dear Mr. Ramirez:

I thought you might be interested in looking into the silver trading
today. It was a good example of how a single seller, when they hold
such a concentrated position in the very small silver market, can
instigate a selloff at will.

These events trade to a regular pattern and we see orchestrated
selling occur 100% of the time at options expiry, contract rollover,
non-farm payrolls (no matter if the news is bullish or bearish), and in
a lesser way at the daily silver fix. I have attached a small
presentation to illustrate some of these events. I have included gold,
as the same traders to a lesser extent hold a controlling position
there too.

Please ignore the last few slides as they were part of a training session I was holding for new traders.

I brought to your attention during our meeting how we traders look
for the "signals" they (JPMorgan) send just prior to a big move. I saw
the first signals early in Asia in thin volume. As traders we profited
from this information but that is not the point as I do not like to
operate in a rigged market and what is in reality a crime in progress.

As an example, if you look at the trades just before the pit open
today you will see around 1,500 contracts sell all at once where the
bids were tiny by comparison in the fives and tens. This has the
immediate effect of gaining $2,500 per contract on the short positions
against the long holders, who lost that in moments and likely were
stopped out. Perhaps look for yourselves into who was behind the trades
at that time and note that within that 10-minute period 2,800 contracts
hit all the bids to overcome them. This is hardly how a normal trader
gets the best price when selling a commodity. Note silver instigated a
rapid move lower in both precious metals.

This kind of trading can occur only when a market is being controlled by a single trading entity.

I have a lot of captured data illustrating just about every price
takedown since JPMorgan took over the Bear Stearns short silver

I am sure you are in a better position to look into the exact details.

It is my wish just to bring more information to your attention to assist you in putting a stop to this criminal activity.

Kind regards,
Andrew Maguire

* * *

From: Ramirez, Eliud [CFTC]
To: Andrew Maguire
Sent: Wednesday, January 27, 2010 4:04 PM
Subject: RE: Silver today

Mr. Maguire,

Thank you for this communication, and for taking the time to furnish the slides.

* * *

From: Andrew Maguire
To: Ramirez, Eliud [CFTC]
Cc: BChilton [CFTC]
Sent: Wednesday, February 03, 2010 3:18 PM
Subject: Re: Silver today

Dear Mr. Ramirez,

Thanks for your response.

Thought it may be helpful to your investigation if I gave you the
heads up for a manipulative event signaled for Friday, 5th Feb. The
non-farm payrolls number will be announced at 8.30 ET. There will be
one of two scenarios occurring, and both will result in silver (and
gold) being taken down with a wave of short selling designed to take
out obvious support levels and trip stops below. While I will no doubt
be able to profit from this upcoming trade, it is an example of just
how easy it is to manipulate a market if a concentrated position is
allowed by a very small group of traders.

I sent you a slide of a couple of past examples of just how this will play out.

Scenario 1. The news is bad (employment is worse). This will have a
bullish effect on gold and silver as the U.S. dollar weakens and the
precious metals draw bids, spiking them higher. This will be sold into
within a very short time (1-5 mins) with thousands of new short
contracts being added, overcoming any new bids and spiking the precious
metals down hard, targeting key technical support levels.

Scenario 2. The news is good (employment is better than expected).
This will result in a massive short position being instigated almost
immediately with no move up. This will not initially be liquidation of
long positions but will result in stops being triggered, again
targeting key support levels.

Both scenarios will spell an attempt by the two main short holders
to illegally drive the market down and reap very large profits. Locals
such as myself will be "invited" on board, which will further add
downward pressure.

The question I would expect you might ask is: Who is behind the
sudden selling and is it the entity/entities holding a concentrated
position? How is it possible for me to know what will occur days before
it will happen?

Only if a market is manipulated could this possibly occur.

I would ask you watch the "market depth" live as this event occurs
and tag who instigates the move. This would surly help you to pose
questions to the parties involved.

This kind of "not-for-profit selling" will end badly and risks the integrity of the COMEX and OTC markets.

I am aware that physical buyers in large size are awaiting this
event to scoop up as much "discounted" gold and silver as possible.
These are sophisticated entities, mainly foreign, who know how to play
the short sellers and turn this paper gold into real delivered physical.

Given that the OTC market (where a lot of the selling occurs) runs
on a fractional reserve basis and is not backed up by 1-1 physical
gold, this leveraged short selling, where ownership of each ounce of
gold has multi claims, poses a very large risk.

I leave this with you, but if you need anything from me that might help you in your investigation I would be pleased to help.

Kind regards,
Andrew T. Maguire

* * *

From: Andrew Maguire
To: Ramirez, Eliud [CFTC]
Sent: Friday, February 05, 2010 2:11 PM
Subject: Fw: Silver today

If you get this in a timely manner, with silver at 15.330 post data,
I would suggest you look at who is adding short contracts in the silver
contract while gold still rises after NFP data. It is undoubtedly the
concentrated short who has "walked silver down" since Wednesday,
putting large blocks in the way of bids. This is clear manipulation as
the long holders who have been liquidated are matched by new short
selling as open interest is rising during the decline.

There should be no reason for this to be occurring other than
controlling silver's rise. There is an intent to drive silver through
the 15 level stops before buying them back after flushing out the long


* * *

From: Andrew Maguire
To: Ramirez, Eliud [CFTC]
Cc: BChilton [CFTC]; GGensler [CFTC]
Sent: Friday, February 05, 2010 3:37 PM
Subject: Fw: Silver today

A final e-mail to confirm that the silver manipulation was a great
success and played out EXACTLY to plan as predicted yesterday. How
would this be possible if the silver market was not in the full control
of the parties we discussed in our phone interview? I have honored my
commitment not to publicize our discussions.

I hope you took note of how and who added the short sales (I
certainly have a copy) and I am certain you will find it is the same
concentrated shorts who have been in full control since JPM took over
the Bear Stearns position.

It is common knowledge here in London among the metals traders that
it is JPM's intent to flush out and cover as many shorts as possible
prior to any discussion in March about position limits. I feel sorry
for all those not in this loop. A serious amount of money was made and
lost today and in my opinion as a result of the CFTC's allowing by your
own definition an illegal concentrated and manipulative position to

Bart, you made reference to it at the energy meeting. Even if the
level is in dispute, what is not disputed is that it exists. Surely
some discussions should have taken place between the parties by now.
Obviously they feel they can act with impunity.

If I can compile the data, then the CFTC should be able to too.

I would think this is an embarrassment to you as regulators.

Hoping to get your acknowledgement.

Kind regards,
Andrew T. Maguire

* * *

From: Andrew Maguire
To: Ramirez, Eliud [CFTC]
Sent: Friday, February 05, 2010 7:47 PM
Subject: Fw: Silver today

Just logging off here in London. Final note.

Now that gold is undergoing short covering, please look at market
depth right now in silver and evidence the large selling blocks in a
thin market being put in the way of silver regaining the technical 15
level, which would cause a short covering rally and new longs being
instigated. This is resulting in the gold-silver ratio being stretched
to ridiculous levels.

I hope this day has given you an example of how silver is "managed" and gives you something more to work with.

If this was long manipulation in, say, the energy market, the shoe would be on the other foot, I suspect.

Have a good weekend.


* * *

From: Andrew Maguire
Sent: Tuesday, February 09, 2010 8:24 AM
To: Ramirez, Eliud [CFTC]
Cc: Gensler, Gary; Chilton, Bart [CFTC]
Subject: Fw: Silver today

Dear Mr. Ramirez,

I hadn't received any acknowledgement from you regarding the series
of e-mails sent by me last week warning you of the planned market
manipulation that would occur in silver and gold a full two days prior
to the non-farm payrolls data release.

My objective was to give you something in advance to watch, log, and follow up in your market manipulation investigation.

You will note that the huge footprints left by the two concentrated
large shorts were obvious and easily identifiable. You have the data.

The signals I identified ahead of the intended short selling event were clear.

The "live" action I sent you 41 minutes after the trigger event
predicting the next imminent move also played out within minutes and
exactly as I outlined.

Surely you must at least be somewhat mystified that a market move could be forecast with such accuracy if it was free trading.

All you have to do is identify the large seller and if it is the
concentrated short shown in the bank participation report, bring them
to task for market manipulation.

I have honored my commitment to assist you and keep any information
we discuss private,however if you are going to ignore my information I
will deem that commitment to have expired.

All I ask is that you acknowledge receipt of my information. The rest I leave in your good hands.

Respectfully yours,

Andrew T. Maguire

* * *

From: Ramirez, Eliud
To: Andrew Maguire
Sent: Tuesday, February 09, 2010 1:29 PM
Subject: RE: Silver today

Good afternoon, Mr. Maguire,

I have received and reviewed your email communications. Thank you so very much for your observations.



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Thu, 03/25/2010 - 22:54 | 276459 CB
CB's picture

will anything meaningful actually happen in response to these revelations?

Thu, 03/25/2010 - 23:20 | 276487 jedwards
jedwards's picture

Of course not.  No one cares.  Criminals are protecting criminals.  No one wants a fair market.  If Ramirez had any intention to do anything about this, he would have asked for further information.  What a fucking joke this world is.  It's like those movies where the people who are supposed to protect you from crime are also the criminals.

Fri, 03/26/2010 - 00:19 | 276544 Fed Supporter
Fed Supporter's picture

No shit.  Tyler please give me Andrew Maguire's email address.  If the CFTC does not give a shit at least I would like to have heads up in order to trade in the same direction and make some money. 


Fri, 03/26/2010 - 03:06 | 276627 Cognitive Dissonance
Cognitive Dissonance's picture

"If the CFTC does not give a shit at least I would like to have heads up in order to trade in the same direction and make some money." 

The CFTC most certainly does give a shit. About you. You, my friend, will be stepped on. The regulators have 2 functions. To ignore criminal activity when it's "official" and to eliminate any "competition" to the "official" manipulation.

You would be considered competition. You don't think you're ID is actually hidden from view here on ZH, do you? Don't be naive.

Fri, 03/26/2010 - 12:48 | 277094 Fed Supporter
Fed Supporter's picture

I was just being a smart ass, I don't trade in the Silver Markets.  I was simply making the point that if the CFTC ignores this guy, I among others would be happy to have insider information.  

I know the government and their agencies have no concern for the little guy.  As well I am aware that anything I post on the internet can be tracked back to me if the authorities need to locate me for my expert opinion as to how it feels to be stepped on.



Fri, 03/26/2010 - 12:58 | 277112 SWRichmond
SWRichmond's picture

A smart ass, at ZH?  Say it ain't so!

Fri, 03/26/2010 - 19:00 | 277645 Cognitive Dissonance
Cognitive Dissonance's picture

I assumed you were being a smart ass. I hope you understand I was as well?

Fri, 03/26/2010 - 07:44 | 276696 CB
CB's picture

sometimes crazy people react.  The establishment must love it on some weird level b/c they can then say their norm is the right norm.

Fri, 03/26/2010 - 15:37 | 277391 BDig
BDig's picture

Actually, I'm pretty sure Ramirez genuinely cared about the event.  This is the type of thing that will do wonders for someone's career in regulation.  However, the conversation with Ramirez's superior would go something like this:

Ramirez:  Boss!  We've got some crazy manipulation stuff going on right now...

Boss:  Let me make a quick call...

Dr. Claw:  <You should not be concerned with such matters.>

Boss to Ramirez:  There is no manipulation going on.  You need not be concerned with such matters.  Move along.

That said, I wonder how this will impact the resolve of interested parties.

Fri, 03/26/2010 - 00:32 | 276552 swamp
swamp's picture

Not in this country, but GATA has international readers, including the Chinese government and others. 

Fri, 03/26/2010 - 00:32 | 276553 swamp
swamp's picture

Not in this country, but GATA has international readers, including the Chinese government and others. 

Fri, 03/26/2010 - 06:25 | 276634 Al Gorerhythm
Al Gorerhythm's picture

If a tree fell in the woods and nobody heard it, did it make a sound?

The arrogance of the man in making that comment, is mirrored in the current "investigation into silver manipulation.

If an illegal manipulation was observed but not acted on by the regulators, would it still be a crime?

Fri, 03/26/2010 - 11:58 | 276994 VegasBD
VegasBD's picture

If a fat girl falls in the forest do the trees laugh?

Fri, 03/26/2010 - 07:09 | 276675 Voluntary Exchange
Voluntary Exchange's picture

This also nicely explains the  concerted shorting activity in the corresponding mining sector stocks, including gold miners.  So demand prosecution from the SEC too, and when they do nothing demand congress charge SEC staff for criminal conspiracy, and when congress does nothing the people will see what they need to do to be free!

Fri, 03/26/2010 - 08:43 | 276717 IBelieveInMagic
IBelieveInMagic's picture

Sorry, this trail of emails is too good to be true -- I suspect these email exchange is fake. It would be a great way to wrong step all the PM conspiracy theorists. The powers-that-be would love to repeatedly show that the conspiracy theorists are wrong although there is no doubt market manipulation going on...


Fri, 03/26/2010 - 09:56 | 276782 Hulk
Hulk's picture

Those emails are exactly like the kind of emails  I sent Auditors on my whistleblower cases, so I think they are real.Andy will spend the next x months/years oscillating between hope and really, really pissed off. Just reading those emails made me very angry, bringing back old thoughts.In the end, Andy will capitulate completely when he realizes that:

A:) no one wants to hear the facts

B:) no one wants to deal with the facts

C:) the system is 100% corrupt and the people in it are pathological liars,frauds and incompetents

I came away with the feeling that 90 percent of the people in the system know they are frauds and incompetents, and they are just covering each others asses. That includes auditors and regulators.

Marko found this out, how he kept at it for ten years I'll never know

I'll tell  every here this: you will never understand the depth of the fraud and corruption until you try to fix it.  Never. Ever.

You have an idea, to be sure, but its much worse than you will ever imagine....



Fri, 03/26/2010 - 11:36 | 276945 hbjork1
hbjork1's picture

Actualiy, a falling tree is converting the potential energy of its distance above the ground into vibrational pressure wave energy in that propagates through the air around it.  If the vibrational pressure waves fall on our little eardrums we get feable electrical transmissions to a gelatinous mass in out head that can send electrical messages elsewhere.  We call it sound.  The voltages for those electrical signals are 40 to 70 millivolts.  And it is all done without silicon (so far as I know.)  (In contrast, the voltage change per Degree C. in a thermocouple is in the MICRO volt range. )

When reliable documentation about market manipulation falls on the little sensors that make up my eyes, my own gelatineous mass is inclined to send signals to my fingers that type out the word FRAUD in a letter to one or more of my elected representatives in Congress. 

They are all going to think I am just another kook but they will probably count the missives on the subject in their tally sheet. 

And if anybody has an e-mail address for the whistle blower, I would be most happy to be able to send him a" thank you".

Thu, 03/25/2010 - 23:04 | 276466 knukles
knukles's picture

Fuck yeah, waddya think?   Andy'll probably get an e-mail from Ramirez thanking him for the information.  What else you want?


PS  Are we supposed to rate the article or Ramirez's e-mail?

Fri, 03/26/2010 - 05:51 | 276653 chumbawamba
chumbawamba's picture

Actually, I don't think we'll be hearing from Andy anymore :(

I am Chumbawamba.

Fri, 03/26/2010 - 06:34 | 276666 Al Gorerhythm
Al Gorerhythm's picture

Drawing a bit on the longbow there, Chumba? A bit of a stretch but I know where you are coming from.

Thu, 03/25/2010 - 23:01 | 276467 SV
SV's picture

If you want to see it, this is that clip.

Fri, 03/26/2010 - 00:37 | 276558 Frank Owen
Frank Owen's picture

Well, that was more specific than I anticipated.        Sure was. lol

Fri, 03/26/2010 - 05:57 | 276655 chumbawamba
chumbawamba's picture

No wonder no one takes Bill Murphy seriously.  Did anyone ever tell him what that dot means at the end of sentences?

I am Chumbawamba.

Thu, 04/01/2010 - 20:31 | 283809 paladin
paladin's picture

why did Bill Murphy talk as fast as he did..



I you??

Thu, 04/01/2010 - 20:34 | 283811 paladin
paladin's picture

I want a dam answer on this

Thu, 03/25/2010 - 23:04 | 276469 tip e. canoe
tip e. canoe's picture

"thank you very much for your observations"

click send

click open new window


Thu, 03/25/2010 - 23:58 | 276529 Mad Max
Mad Max's picture

For those mislabeling this as junk, I believe it's actually a fairly intelligent commentary on a recent minor scandal involving a US federal agency.

Fri, 03/26/2010 - 06:00 | 276657 chumbawamba
chumbawamba's picture

Never underestimate the stupidity of any crowd, including ones that coagulate in ZH comments.

I am Chumbawamba.

Fri, 03/26/2010 - 09:41 | 276770 Cognitive Dissonance
Cognitive Dissonance's picture


What a wonderful usage of the term "coagulate". Consider it stolen by me.

Fri, 03/26/2010 - 06:35 | 276668 Crime of the Century
Crime of the Century's picture

Yeah - amazing that the SEC needs "unfiltered" access like the DOJ. The bulk of Fed systems run enhanced Websense or such. Things that make you go hmmmm. And you're right, the junkers are suffering from cranial impaction.

Fri, 03/26/2010 - 06:46 | 276670 tip e. canoe
tip e. canoe's picture

thank you SO MUCH for junking my comment!  i see you find the dark side of the human psyche offensive.  personally, i find people hiding behind false sincerity much more so.  and even more revolting is the thought that a person whose livelihood is being paid for by the collective energy, sweat & toil of american taxpayers and who got busted obsessively surfing porn on the job still has a job being paid for by __________.

i guess we can agree to disagree as to what is 'junk'. 
it's the American Way, right?
hope you enjoy filling out your tax return!

Fri, 03/26/2010 - 09:44 | 276773 Cognitive Dissonance
Cognitive Dissonance's picture

People don't like to reminded of crazy Auntie in the attic. In a society that spends so much of its time trying to avoid discussing anything of substance, you're an ugly reminder of their participation in the collective denial.

I suspect a few people clicked the link, got turned on, then were embarrassed by their sexual response and struck out at you for leading them by the nose to their own sexuality. Shame on you, tip e. canoe!

Fri, 03/26/2010 - 10:54 | 276867 tip e. canoe
tip e. canoe's picture

well i hate to be the one to break the news but crazy Auntie has already busted out the attic and refuses to go back inside until she sits down and has a heart-to-heart with every single one of her nieces & nephews.  she's got some family history to share with us all.

Fri, 03/26/2010 - 09:59 | 276787 Hulk
Hulk's picture

just ignore the junks tip.e.canoe. They are now meaningless...

Fri, 03/26/2010 - 10:09 | 276800 velobabe
velobabe's picture

i thought it was funny that you suggested to open a new window.

yeah know if your writing html code can target attribute defines whether to open the page in a separate window, or to open the link in the current browser window. can we do this in ZH posts?

Fri, 03/26/2010 - 10:42 | 276850 fuu
fuu's picture

Disable rich text formating and do the html by hand.

target="_blank" opens your link in a new window. You need the rest of the html though.
Example: a href="" target="_blank" Zerohedge /a

Zero Hedge(pops)

Thu, 03/25/2010 - 23:04 | 276471 Cookie
Cookie's picture

This should be the 'smoking gun', but of course all that will happen is for Maguire to meet with a fatal accident.

Thu, 03/25/2010 - 23:06 | 276472 Missing_Link
Missing_Link's picture

I have a terrible feeling that the only way to profit from this whole situation is a life insurance policy on Andrew Maguire.

Fri, 03/26/2010 - 08:09 | 276710 VFR
VFR's picture

does that mean shorting him

Fri, 03/26/2010 - 10:57 | 276874 viahj
viahj's picture

No, that would mean taking a CDS position.  "Curious Death Suddenly"

Thu, 03/25/2010 - 23:07 | 276473 Gold...Bitches
Gold...Bitches's picture


Thu, 03/25/2010 - 23:09 | 276476 Shameful
Shameful's picture

Now I really want to know who those physical buyers are that come in for the discounted physical.  Good thing JPM is to big to fail.  So when this finally blows up in their face we can bail them out again.

Thu, 03/25/2010 - 23:34 | 276502 Double down
Double down's picture

This is one dangerous game they are playing.  Imagine the resonance this builds up. 

Fri, 03/26/2010 - 00:01 | 276530 Mad Max
Mad Max's picture

Yeah, except that I'm concerned that this could be used as a pretext for confiscating privately held gold (and even silver).  "Sorry, Mr. J6P retail gold buyer, it turns out that the big bullion banks were fraudulently short selling, and a rather stern Saudi prince called their bluff and demands delivery.  Since the US war machine needs oil, we're taking your gold in order to keep the oil flowing to the war machine.  You'll be fairly confiscated at the official US gold price.  (By the way, that's $39/oz)."

Fri, 03/26/2010 - 00:34 | 276555 Shameful
Shameful's picture

Oh this is a possibility.  I consider it remote simply because Americans don't own much gold.  In some ways they are already forcing gold out of the weak hands with the cash for gold commercials.  Now I expect them to just jam up the price and let the dollar fall and just bid with dollars, that will kill a lot of weak hands "Gold doubled overnight!  It's a bubble sell!  Sell! Sell!" 

After all sending out teams of IRS agents and support to try to grab goldbugs gold could be a lot more messy then it's worth, really how many of us are there that have any real amount of gold?  On top of it most goldbugs are also gun bugs and would dole of free lead samples before coughing up their gold.  Sure they could get it, but a lot of pain for little gain.  They would be better off just making gold ownership illegal again and crack down on those attempting to sell expect to the US Gold Commission.  Though honestly I think this idea is remote unless the dollar totally dies when the crimex explodes.  Really the best play would be to sell gold out of the Fed and Treasury.  They can sell every last ounce if need be, and then they can leverage allies like the UK or even India to cough it up to meet their shorts, not to speak of IMF gold.  There are literally thousands of tons of gold they can back up the TBTF with (assuming they have not sold or leased it already).

Though the newscast would be amazing "Goldbugs declared war on! They are terrorist because they won't give their gold to the Government to support JPM.  Later in the hour we will have Jamie Dimon to explain why these vile terrorists hate America!"  For extra comedy we need Dimon to be Treasury Secretary at the time to :)

Fri, 03/26/2010 - 07:13 | 276679 oddsman
oddsman's picture

Americans in general don't hold much PHYSICAL gold or silver, but...Imagine how much easier things would have been for FDR had GLD & SLV been around back then, instead of thousands of banks with hundreds of thousands of safe deposit boxes. IMO in all likelihood GLD & SLV contain fake bars (tungsten + osmium = weight of gold, lead + aluminum wire = weight of silver) but even if they're real the risk of government confiscation, compared to metal you hold yourself, is extreme. Buy "junk" silver if you like silver. Then you can look at it and marvel at how we can call it "junk" when it's so beautiful. :)

Fri, 03/26/2010 - 10:38 | 276846 Mad Max
Mad Max's picture

tungsten + osmium = weight of gold

Tungsten alone is so close there's no need to add others.  Last I knew Osmium was pricier than platinum.

Fri, 03/26/2010 - 12:32 | 277054 DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture

I believe osmium is cheaper than platinum: (with the www, the site is from England).

Yes, tungsten is very close to gold's density.  You would be EXTREMELY close if you had an mixture 98% or so tungsten and 2% or so osmium.

Fri, 03/26/2010 - 14:14 | 277244 Mad Max
Mad Max's picture

Color me surprised.  Good site to link to.

So, yes, you could be spot-on for the overall density with a little osmium.  But the bar/coin would still fail more sophisticated tests like speed of sound and electrical conductivity.

Fri, 03/26/2010 - 00:03 | 276531 Mad Max
Mad Max's picture

funky server double post

Fri, 03/26/2010 - 00:39 | 276559 swamp
swamp's picture

There's millions of little buyers like me, in the USA and in other countries. A ZH poster last week said the Bangkok gold markets were smokin'. Jim Sinclair just wrote yesterday that Dubai gold market was busy.

Fri, 03/26/2010 - 12:14 | 277025 Problem Is
Problem Is's picture

"Good thing JPM is to big to fail.  So when this finally blows up in their face we can bail them out again."

Jamie Dimon for Secretary of the US Treasury

As Jamie likes to say:

"Silver, peasants!"

Thu, 03/25/2010 - 23:11 | 276479 digalert
digalert's picture


Thu, 03/25/2010 - 23:16 | 276484 perchprism
perchprism's picture


I have a good bundle of silver and probably enough gold (not certain, but I'm not too worried).  Let the price drop and I'll max out my credit cards if I have to.  I don't care.  Silver and gold will eventually regain their luster in this world, when folks realize that fiat debt-based paper has gone the way of the hand-shake.

Fri, 03/26/2010 - 00:49 | 276563 DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture

You got it buddy.  I bought 7 toz of gold Eagles the day I got back here to the USSA from my trip.

"They" take the prices down more?  I'll join you in line there at the coin shop with FRNs to spend on gold (although the local shop I go to said he will let me have his platinum 3 pieces of 1 toz Eagles at a mere $35 over spot, YOW!, that's a deal, and I have more $ value in Pt than in silver).  Guess I know where I'm going Saturday!

Fri, 03/26/2010 - 10:05 | 276794 Hulk
Hulk's picture

I bought 7 toz of gold Eagles.

Is toz supposed to be tonz DoChenRollingBearing?

Great over spot price, best I have ever seen...

Fri, 03/26/2010 - 12:39 | 277064 DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture

toz = troy oz.  Yeah I wish I had tonz...  Of course 1/3 of any tonz would be on its way OUT of America.

Yeah, if I understand him correctly, paying a mere $35 over spot for Pt Eagles is almost incredible.  That is even less than the premium for gold Eagles (typically $70 for me).

Thu, 03/25/2010 - 23:23 | 276489 Mr Lennon Hendrix
Mr Lennon Hendrix's picture

I will be loading up tomorrow, as I did today.

Fri, 03/26/2010 - 00:03 | 276532 Nihilarian
Nihilarian's picture

Damn straight, Mr Hendrix, damn straight.

Fri, 03/26/2010 - 00:57 | 276568 DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture

Mr Lennon H. and Nihilarian are thinking like I do!  I will do my part to strip the S. FL bullion dealers of Au, Pt and Ag on Saturday!

I also have an old small physical position in palladium (Canadian) that I will hang onto, for old times sake.  Hey, Pd stores 900 x its weight in hydrogen gas, the top of the class in that regard.  And if the Asians or the Europeans find a way to use Pd (cheaper) than Pt for DIESEL engines (catalytic converters), then any pikers with palladium are going to do great!

I have repeated, perhaps 'ad nauseum' the below website that has really helped me open my eyes to the REAL value of gold:

Thu, 03/25/2010 - 23:26 | 276491 bigkahuna
bigkahuna's picture

Good article. I am in no way surprised that the PM market is under manipulation. It is also no surprise that our federal government is allowing it to happen. If history will be written truly-the last few years and the next one or two are going to be without parallel unless you go back to the thievery of declining ancient Rome.

Thu, 03/25/2010 - 23:26 | 276492 Rick64
Rick64's picture

This should be spread around the internet and every news agency. This is concrete evidence of manipulation and CFTC corruptness. He should of went straight to the media outlets that care and won't bury it bypass all government organizations. Like Ellsberg.

Fri, 03/26/2010 - 00:09 | 276498 Bob
Bob's picture

Perhaps, but he did keep good records and got it to the media in the end. 

Great idea about pushing it out, though--I only had 10-12 media outlets in my contact list, but I gave it my fair share of push. 

Fri, 03/26/2010 - 00:42 | 276561 swamp
swamp's picture

Murphy has been blasting away for years but who carries him but ZH? GATA paid $379,000 for a full page ad in WSJ. Did any reporter from WSJ ever follow up? Nah.

Fri, 03/26/2010 - 06:59 | 276672 tip e. canoe
tip e. canoe's picture

i actually think that those email exchanges with the CFTC are priceless.  i love the one where McGuire refers to the fact that they asked him not to tell anybody else.

"We're from the government.  You can trust us.  Now keep your mouth shut like a good American."

Fri, 03/26/2010 - 08:50 | 276719 mouser98
mouser98's picture

yes, in other words:  "join me in a criminal conspiracy to cover this up, thereby becoming an accomplice to it"

Thu, 03/25/2010 - 23:41 | 276493 Bob
Bob's picture

I'm predicting some real fallout on this one.  Hope it ain't just the hope left in me.  This looks like a major break--whistleblowers are long overdue and it's their time to emerge in numbers.

This nation has alot more conscience than we've seen. 

Fri, 03/26/2010 - 00:49 | 276564 Frank Owen
Frank Owen's picture

+1, Bob. But the irony of your name and the character in Fight Club is somewhat disturbing.

Fri, 03/26/2010 - 11:09 | 276893 Bob
Bob's picture

Go ahead . . . Cornelius, you can cry.  

Now please get back to work and spread the word about this stuff!

Fri, 03/26/2010 - 10:07 | 276796 Hulk
Hulk's picture

Sorry to say nothing will ever come of this.

System is too corrupt Bob.

Whistleblowing just isn't functioning in the current fraudulent environment

Fri, 03/26/2010 - 11:15 | 276904 Bob
Bob's picture

I think it's like anything else--when enough people start singing their own tunes, the puppet masters are gonna have major problems. 

Every potential whistlblower knows the ache of conscience that dogs their days and torments their nights. 

There are literally a million potential whistlblowers.  If only ten percent of them act to salvage their honor and dignity, the game changes.

Whistleblower advice: See a lawyer specializing in this area ASAP, take your notes with you. 

Wed, 01/26/2011 - 18:52 | 907616 web dizajn
web dizajn's picture

I agree completely. Neither whistleblowers nor the general public have any kind or real power to change anything. web dizajn

Thu, 03/25/2010 - 23:33 | 276500 lsbumblebee
lsbumblebee's picture

This also will be ignored by the politicians. Because there are no laws for the power elite it doesn't matter what Mr. Maquire has to say. The only chance for the average investor to realize its true value is to take physical possession of his or her gold and silver and force an actual physical shortage of precious metals for investment and industrial use. Only then will we see what the market is really willing to pay.

Thu, 03/25/2010 - 23:41 | 276513 Shameful
Shameful's picture

Doing this will actually be what exposes this corruption to the public.  The only chance this comes to the fore is if they are no longer able to deliver physical.  Until then, be happy the price is manipulated, because it gives us guys who are showing up late tot he game a chance to buy.  If they are this short and they get called on it they will need to cover, and they will have all the backing of the UST and Fed Reserve to make sure hey are liquid enough to cover it.  To big to fail.

Fri, 03/26/2010 - 02:14 | 276605 TheGoodDoctor
TheGoodDoctor's picture

Amen brother. It's all about the supply.

Fri, 03/26/2010 - 10:11 | 276803 Hulk
Hulk's picture

Exactly right Isbumblebee

And you had better be able to back the physical possession up with lethal force. Massive lethal force. Join together in order to protect your family, wealth and rights.

Thu, 03/25/2010 - 23:34 | 276503 Lionhead
Lionhead's picture

Thank you Mr. Maguire for stepping up & exposing this fraud once & for all. You sir, have courage & conviction to do this. You have my deepest respect. Stay safe.

Thu, 03/25/2010 - 23:54 | 276527 Cookie
Cookie's picture


Thu, 03/25/2010 - 23:57 | 276528 Bob
Bob's picture

+1000000 . . .

Fri, 03/26/2010 - 10:14 | 276806 Hulk
Hulk's picture

It actually doesn't boil down to a safety issue Lionhead, because everyone in the game knows its rigged and nothing will become of it. Just have to go through the SLOW motions,which is great because this places one that much closer to federal retirement....really

Thu, 03/25/2010 - 23:36 | 276507 Segestan
Segestan's picture

When honesty is on the outside looking in don't expect justice.Just another voice in the wind.

Thu, 03/25/2010 - 23:39 | 276511 SWRichmond
SWRichmond's picture

Looks to me like TA figures prominently in this scheme, where "support" levels are targeted.  So who is responsible for foisting TA upon the masses?  TA always seemed like an insider scheme to me; if I have the power to push markets, I have the power to steal your position from you, especially if I know where your stops are likely to be.

Fri, 03/26/2010 - 00:19 | 276543 i.knoknot
i.knoknot's picture


these guys are market-makers and know exactly where the stops are...


Thu, 03/25/2010 - 23:41 | 276514 Double down
Double down's picture

Have another one from BNN:

Fri, 03/26/2010 - 00:09 | 276537 Harbourcity
Harbourcity's picture

hhahaha I love being a Canadian.  Wasn't that interviewer hilarious.

Thu, 03/25/2010 - 23:42 | 276516 Pegasus Muse
Pegasus Muse's picture

Once the government proves itself corrupt and complicit in Gangster Bankster fraud and market manipulation the game is over.

I suspect the people, upon hearing the truth, will conclude not only the banksters are criminals, but so are the do-nothing regulators and the enabling crony politicians.

History is replete with stories of what happens to governments and so called "power elites" when citizens conclude they have been deceived and defrauded by their own leaders. 

Evil must be removed.

So, Mr Gensler, will history repeat itself?  The tricoteuse are beginning to knit faster ( ).

Fri, 03/26/2010 - 10:45 | 276855 Mad Max
Mad Max's picture

The "people" are not going to rise up because of this or any other enormous crime against honesty and the concepts of true capitalism.

The people may rise up when their cable tv stops working and they can't get beer at the 7-11 any more.  When they do rise up, think Watts Riots, not anything resembling the American Revolution.  They will probably lynch people, all right - most likely the honest and innocent people who are victims, not creators, of our current ponzi nation.

Figure out your own way of dealing with the decline of this empire.  And hurry.

Thu, 03/25/2010 - 23:45 | 276517 perchprism
perchprism's picture

Ultimately what we need is for a country, any country, to decide to back its currency with gold.  Then, and only then, with its daily screams of outrage at the gold bourse manipulation, will anything be done. 

Israel could do it, for example.  Assuming it has enough gold.  Silver could be added, if necessary.   

Thu, 03/25/2010 - 23:53 | 276525 Shameful
Shameful's picture

You would think a Muslim nation would do know with their holy book demanding that money be gold and silver...guess we can see how fundamentalist they really are... (Note this is not a slam at Muslims only to point out that they are not blindly follwong their holy book, so maybe not as fundamentalists as some pundits claim)

Also at the risk of an argument, if you want hard money it needs to be gold or silver, or really anything.  Bi-metalism is an invitation for trouble.  The only way to have gold and silver as money is to have them completely separate and distinct and let them trade against each other.  Setting an artificial exchange rate will cause one or the other to be under valued and taken off the market.

Fri, 03/26/2010 - 00:16 | 276540 perchprism
perchprism's picture


A Moslem country, or an Asian country like Thailand, for example.


In 1994 I live for a while in Saudi Arabia, working for Riyadh Telephone Cables.  I accumulated some gold while there, all 21 or 24K.  ElMirey Street contains their gold souk.  Later, Stateside, I bought a lot of gold/gems/jewelry from They were great at first, but became somewhat lame with the advent of eBAY.  My best jewelry pieces are from Thaigems.  18 and 21k gold set with beautiful diamonds and gemstones such as sapphires, rubies, and D-Block tanzanite.  They let you design your own jewelry in the early days.  I have 10's of thousands of dollars in 24-K gold with D-flawless diamonds.  Only recently have I placed any attention toward coins.  I fear the tradeability of gemstone-encrusted jewelry won't be as fluid as a Golden Eagle. 

Chickens is where it's at, anyway, and arable land.  I'll have both soon enough, although my current garden is rather large.  Five acres across the road is what I have my eyes on now.  Nice plowable farmland.  I don't plan to scrape by on the skin of my teeth to survive--I plan to prosper, with 100+ chickens, and plenty of potatoes, corn, beans, etc.  People will have to deal with me in either silver, gold, or bartable goods.



Fri, 03/26/2010 - 00:50 | 276562 Shameful
Shameful's picture

Like I said I'm all for a country to go gold.  I would dance a jig if a Muslim country did it.  Hell I might have to learn a new language if say Saudi Arabia did it, or the rumor (wishful thinking?) about a gold backed currency for the sale of Middle East oil.

That sounds awesome!  Sounds like an amazing stash, and jewelry will always be worth something

I agree that agg will be great.  But personally I think there will be a lot of turmoil out there. I would rather be fluid and mobile.  But then again my net worth is not overly impressive, I could not buy a good plot or the gear to work or, and I don't have those skills anyway.  Though much to my surprise my dad is talking about buying a section of land.  Will be a damn sight better then living in a city even if he isn't going to farm it.  Admirable you are planning on thriving, I'm grateful I got a chance to plan.  I'd just like to be able to ride this storm out.

Fri, 03/26/2010 - 07:37 | 276688 SWRichmond
SWRichmond's picture

If the Saudis can get a better defense deal, or if (when) USD goes kaboom like a glock firing out of battery, they will do it.

Fri, 03/26/2010 - 02:53 | 276619 delacroix
delacroix's picture

you may be able to farm land, without buying it, just do it. the banks won't be keeping close tabs on a bare lot.  junk silver is IMO the superior barter medium, get yourself in the mindset to kill the chickens you want to cook, and stock up on surplus feed. the chickenshit is excellent garden fertilizer. expect to give away a sizeable portion of what you grow, maybe barter for labor, and security. make it in your groups best interest, to protect your spread

Fri, 03/26/2010 - 04:07 | 276633 jeff montanye
jeff montanye's picture

the banks aren't keeping close tabs on built-on lots either.

Fri, 03/26/2010 - 10:27 | 276828 velobabe
velobabe's picture

haven't you been reading about what the drug cartels? are doing in california with the vast marijuana groves, same colorado, on government national forests or BLM land. i see this on the same level your talking about. sophisicated farming, using lots of water though.

my friends started a chicken and turkey farm for resale they are dead broke.

big food corporations occupy this space, i think. can't compete even if raised free range.

Fri, 03/26/2010 - 07:39 | 276692 SWRichmond
SWRichmond's picture

You'd have a real tough time enforcing a claim to the produce from the land, though, if questions ever arose.  What would you do if you found yourself getting lots of unsolicited "help" at harvest time?

Fri, 03/26/2010 - 07:50 | 276698 tip e. canoe
tip e. canoe's picture

(a) all the more reason to keep it discreet.
(b) build a fire, bring out the moonshine & have a feast?

Fri, 03/26/2010 - 10:19 | 276814 Hulk
Hulk's picture

Check out horse and plow perchprism, before you buy a tractor

Have someone come out and give you a demo, let you take a test

drive,, in case you haven't tried that before..

We are also doing forest raised pigs now.

Chipotle restaurants will be buying all our forest raised pigs,

the owner is really into properly raised food

Fri, 03/26/2010 - 07:03 | 276671 THE DORK OF CORK
THE DORK OF CORK's picture

They might have to change their international reserve accounts first , as at the moment they have zero gold in their vaults - refer to contents - official reserve assets and other foreign currency assets

Thu, 03/25/2010 - 23:46 | 276518 RobotTrader
RobotTrader's picture

Absolutely nothing is going to happen.

The GATA boys have been screeching about this for years.

And nothing happens.

In fact, I guarantee you that there is no more gold or silver at Ft. Knox.

In its place, there are pallets of "Short Gold (or Silver) at Market" COMEX order tickets, a virtual unlimited supply.

Nobody, I mean NOBODY is ever going to have the balls to stand for delivery of anything in size.

Because if they ever did, COMEX would just write the guy a check and settle in cash.

It's pure legal manipulation.

But the "public" could care less about the silver or gold market.

There are no political points to score by bringing this scheme public.





Therefore, the games will continue ad infinitum.


Fri, 03/26/2010 - 00:04 | 276534 Nihilarian
Nihilarian's picture

All Gold Comex settlement is already in cash, is it not?

Fri, 03/26/2010 - 02:54 | 276621 delacroix
delacroix's picture

or shares of GLD

Fri, 03/26/2010 - 00:14 | 276538 lsbumblebee
lsbumblebee's picture

I don't believe that. It will not take a huge chunk but only many little bites. The silver market in particular is extremely vulnerable to a physical shortage. When industries are no longer able to purchase necessary materials then we'll finally return to the quaint law of supply and demand.

Fri, 03/26/2010 - 01:13 | 276576 DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture

OK, let me revise my plan on Saturday. I will go ahead and buy a roll of silver Eagles (along with whatever platinum and gold I can afford).

Disclosure: LONG PHYSICAL Au, Pt, Ag, Pd.

Fri, 03/26/2010 - 02:55 | 276622 delacroix
delacroix's picture

the silver market is tiny  tiny tiny, it wouldn't take much demand, to suck up every oz

Fri, 03/26/2010 - 02:38 | 276614 Double down
Double down's picture

None of this matters until... it matters:

Fri, 03/26/2010 - 10:22 | 276821 Hulk
Hulk's picture


Except it won't go on ad infinitum, it will collapse.

Corrupt systems always collapse,,,eventually.

Granted though, at this time, it has the appearance of being infinite.

Thu, 03/25/2010 - 23:48 | 276521 Cam Mac
Cam Mac's picture

I watched the hearing. These suicide bankers threatened on numerous occasions that commodity trading would move overseas if position limits were enforced. Suicide bankers and Central Wankers pound sand!

Thu, 03/25/2010 - 23:50 | 276523 frippy
frippy's picture

Someone please take these emails and promptly deposit them up the anal canals of:






Did I miss anyone?

Fri, 03/26/2010 - 01:10 | 276575 Johnny Dangereaux
Johnny Dangereaux's picture


Fri, 03/26/2010 - 01:22 | 276583 DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture

Uhm, as a non-pro (but buyer of personal physical PMs) here, but following PMs closely, I would not dismiss Mish and Denninger.

These guys know more than I do, and I REALLY try to keep up with the markets (esp. PMs).

Physical possesion of gold (etc.) looks wise.

Fri, 03/26/2010 - 01:27 | 276584 frippy
frippy's picture

They've pooh poohed the maniuplation story and GATA's work at every turn.

I'm not dismissing all of their work but on this issue they are ignorant.

Fri, 03/26/2010 - 01:28 | 276585 Shameful
Shameful's picture

I agree both of those guys are very smart.  I think their blind spot is the ability for the Fed to force inflation.  They think that for some reason Zimbabwe Ben can't just go nuts and buy everything and force the money in.  Might not be elegant but Zimbabwe Ben could just buy a few trillion in equities to get the money out there.  Now sure legally he can't but since when has the law ever stopped them before? 

Fri, 03/26/2010 - 03:12 | 276628 Cognitive Dissonance
Cognitive Dissonance's picture

Their blind spots are that both can conceive of a conspiracy to manipulate the markets in some ways but not others. In other words, they are selective conspiracytheorists, meaning they will believe there is a conspiracy when it doesn't disturb their world view.

This is the most destructive type of denial imaginable.

Fri, 03/26/2010 - 10:36 | 276845 velobabe
velobabe's picture

i think those two gentlemen are very wise indeed. but i think they think they are above it all and all the worshippers know their identity and that is what scares me about them. KD has a nazi commenters board, scary. mish has black swan and fedwatcher that summarizers all of the articles that mish writes and kinda judges the posts. i find it a little herding. i like ZH format we don't know who the hell TD is do we care? it is the message not the messenger. god and it is just the AM, now.

Fri, 03/26/2010 - 11:06 | 276888 Womb Service
Womb Service's picture

Yes. This is why I stopped reading MISH despite finding a lot of his analysis to be very good. I think he has gone so far down the road of denying PM manipulation, he can't change his tune now without seriously damaging his credibility. I think he now knows he is wrong, but simply cannot admit it at this stage. It's too bad because he does advocate gold as money. He also has a huge audience and would do the PM movement a lot of good if he would help with exposing the criminality.

Fri, 03/26/2010 - 06:52 | 276661 Al Gorerhythm
Al Gorerhythm's picture

Don't forget Obama's inbox.

Fri, 03/26/2010 - 00:18 | 276542 joneog
joneog's picture

Anyone who watches gold futures trade knows some funky stuff is going on when we get those big -40 type days... the selling appears to come out of nowhere and attacks the bids rather than trying to work offers... once it gets down about 10-15 bucks and takes out a few supp levels traders hop on, long stops get hit and it just collapses...

problem is there is no real way to conclusively prove it is manipulative.  Some guy writing emails isn't proof, sorry.

If you think criminals in the gov are going to do anything you're fooling yourself.  Governments, CBs, and Banks have ALWAYS manipulated the metals for obvious reasons. You're better off using the manipulation to your advantage: if you are a buy and hold type, use these huge drops to add rather than panic; if you are a short-term trader keep an eye out for the price action that leads to these events and jump on; if you trade on the long side set your stops accordingly. 

There's only so much gold/silver out there, eventually when enough of it finds its way into strong hands - as sovereign defaults/devaluations begin/continue - these games in the derivatives markets will be forced to end.  Look for gold foward rates/basis to collapse and lease rates to spike - that's you're signal that the market has lost faith in future delivery.   Until then don't hold your breathe waiting for the CFTC or SEC to admit they've been criminally negligent or worse all these years.

Fri, 03/26/2010 - 01:12 | 276577 The Disappointed
The Disappointed's picture


Fri, 03/26/2010 - 01:01 | 276570 chindit13
chindit13's picture

So many wonderful lessons to teach our children!

1)  Work for a TBTF bank and laws, rules and regulations do not apply

2)  Work for a TBTF bank and you can never lose, as losses belong to the taxpayer

3)  Spend far more than you will ever be able to afford on a house, car, iPhone, etc., since all will be forgiven and the shortfall covered by the pathological dumb suckers, once known as "responsible individuals".

4)  You live in a kind of democracy, the kind where the majority of the elite minority rule, and your government consists of six branches:  Executive, Legislative, Judicial, Dick Cheney, Goldman Sachs and the Federal Reserve (the latter two the only ones with real power).

Don't fall for the hype about America.  It if ever was, it certainly is not anymore.

Goodnight my sweet child.

Fri, 03/26/2010 - 01:05 | 276573 TheSettler
TheSettler's picture

Chindit, you are about the most reasonable poster on this sight, Thanks

Fri, 03/26/2010 - 01:31 | 276587 DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture

To disagree to an extent, I think that a prudent and saving behavior will work out better for our children. 

YES, the elite and the .gov are stealing from us.  It is up to us as individuals to look out for ourselves, with the help of trustworthy sites like ZH.

Also, the prepared (only) may want to look at other countries if Obama and the Dems go nuts re taxation.  Learn some of the language first though if you want to go that route.

Fri, 03/26/2010 - 07:41 | 276694 SWRichmond
SWRichmond's picture

The feedback loop of "my money" to "Congress" to "Wall Street" and then back to "Congress" is all-too-evident, yet it persists anyway.

Fri, 03/26/2010 - 11:45 | 276958 JackAz
JackAz's picture

Wish you were wrong.

Know you are right.

Fri, 03/26/2010 - 11:58 | 276997 Mad Max
Mad Max's picture

Great post.

Only argument: Dick Cheney had real power from 2001-2006 or so, I think.

Fri, 03/26/2010 - 13:15 | 277132 Anton LaVey
Anton LaVey's picture

4)  You live in a kind of democracy, the kind where the majority of the elite minority rule, and your government consists of six branches:  Executive, Legislative, Judicial, Dick Cheney, Goldman Sachs and the Federal Reserve (the latter two the only ones with real power).

Six branches of government... I laughed.

Don't forget that one of these branches has the right to shoot at everyone and anyone while quail hunting.

Fri, 03/26/2010 - 01:24 | 276578 Johnny Dangereaux
Johnny Dangereaux's picture

What's Old is New again.....

Wait, can I say this?   I got Silver....Beyatches!

To Quote.....from here..

For nearly 5,000 years, the price ratio between gold and silver has averaged approximately 15:1. This number is very close to the 17:1 ratio which represents the natural occurrence of the two elements in the Earth's crust. It is interesting to note, however, that through most of history the price ratio has favored silver.

In the last century, that ratio has rapidly, if unevenly risen. As of this moment, the gold:silver price ratio is once again nearing 70:1. Given the historical data, the natural assumption to make is that the world must be practically overflowing with silver for the price ratio to have gotten this skewed. In fact, this couldn't be further from the truth.

In the modern era of silver production, annual mine production now amounts to more than 600 million ounces per year. However, while industrial and investment demand for silver are soaring, production is leveling off. Annual production in 2008 only increased by roughly 2%, despite the price of silver reaching its highest level in nearly thirty years.

It's a "Natural Law" and in the Coinage Act of 1792....too!

From Wiki in regards to the Act.......

"The Act defined the proportional value of gold and silver as 15 units of pure silver to 1 unit of pure gold."

Fri, 03/26/2010 - 01:44 | 276594 DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture

Well, M. Dangereaux, such ratios do change through history due to various factors.

Still, I believe your main point is to have diversity in precious metals.  I agree 100%.  Gold, platinum, silver and palladium (in order of my worth of my US$ holdings) is the BASE of what I own should TSHTF.

Silver may indeed be a bargain here.  Great, OK.  But GOLD is the main wealth preserver of this guy...

Of course, firearms complement many PM owners..., like me!

Fri, 03/26/2010 - 08:53 | 276722 Johnny Dangereaux
Johnny Dangereaux's picture

This NEVER changes though....

"This number is very close to the 17:1 ratio which represents the natural occurrence of the two elements in the Earth's crust."

I think the PERCENTAGE increase coming in Silver will dwarf that of Gold....just my 2 cents.

Fri, 03/26/2010 - 01:17 | 276581 Camtender
Camtender's picture

Sometimes the pen is mightier than the short................

A letter of concern regarding the allegations noted above written to the CFTC Inspector General,

A. Roy Lavik
Office of the Inspector General

1155 21st Street, N.W.

Washington, D.C. 20581

and cc'ed to Gary Gensler (Chairman of CFTC), DOJ, GATA, SEC, PWC (auditors of JPM) and each member of JPM's Audit Committee - just might leverage enough movement to have an actual investigation.


Ask PWC and the Audit Committee what internal controls over financial reporting are in place at JPM to ensure commodity transactions are within market regulations and not intended to create illegal market manipulation.


I have no doubt that PWC will react when faced with any potential compariosn to the E&Y "Repo 105" scandal, and cc PCAOB too.


Or just call the Office of the Inspector General, anonymous fraud hotline number is (202) 418-5510 and email ("OIG: report fraud, waste and abuse at CFTC" as subject line).
Fri, 03/26/2010 - 01:18 | 276582 Rusty_Shackleford
Rusty_Shackleford's picture

Complete and utter lawlessness.


Plain and simple.

Fri, 03/26/2010 - 01:32 | 276588 RossInvestor
RossInvestor's picture

The HSBC spokesmen testified gold was readily available and that HSBC could produce 1 million oz. of AU within 24 hours.  I suspect one or more entities will make HSBC eat their words on this very expensive and stupid brag.

Fri, 03/26/2010 - 02:59 | 276624 i.knoknot
i.knoknot's picture

i imagine it's there to 'produce'... but is it their gold?

Fri, 03/26/2010 - 01:32 | 276589 Cookie
Cookie's picture

yet more JPM criminality

Proof that crime really does pay in the USA





Fri, 03/26/2010 - 02:33 | 276613 TheGoodDoctor
TheGoodDoctor's picture

Wow. I am continually amazed. I just wonder if anything will ever happen. With all of this coming out the only thing they can use is fear.

Fri, 03/26/2010 - 09:22 | 276701 SWRichmond
SWRichmond's picture

And you can expect them to ramp up their application of fear in any way imagionable, and in many ways ordinary people cannot imagine.  They cannot physically control all of us.  Fear is their most potent weapon.  Release your fear and they are powerless.

Fri, 03/26/2010 - 01:33 | 276590 Fred C Dobbs
Fred C Dobbs's picture

America is one big continual lie. 

Fri, 03/26/2010 - 01:34 | 276591 BlackBeard
BlackBeard's picture

wow...this is a big fucking deal....back to the tranny porn boyz.

Fri, 03/26/2010 - 01:43 | 276593 verum quod lies
verum quod lies's picture

Unfortunately, an organization (like the CFTC) has to have the will to enforce. What we need a this point is at least a complete turnover of the top personnel (if not all) in that organization (and virtually all other organizations tasked with making sure the "markets" show semblance of acting like markets where actual demand and supply determine pricing). I am hopeful, but I will not be holding my breath.

If ture, and it seems to be so, this is truely disheartening.


Fri, 03/26/2010 - 01:50 | 276597 Apocalypse Now
Apocalypse Now's picture

This is the definition of regulatory capture, ex-goldman employee indeed.

I wonder if JP Morgan even puts up collateral on their short positions.

It may even be government policy, a la Larry Summers gold paradox - control interest rates and precious metals prices, the inflation is less apparent.  It also keeps everyone trapped in a system they control and buying into treasuries for flights to "safety".  Gold and silver are the only freedom from debt based "money".  The paper system allows theft and money laundering - try to do that with physical metals.

Fri, 03/26/2010 - 03:05 | 276626 delacroix
delacroix's picture

a study I read stated that their positions were not, could not be hedged. they're naked shorts, plain and simple

Fri, 03/26/2010 - 02:12 | 276603 TheGoodDoctor
TheGoodDoctor's picture

Amen brother. It's all about the supply.

Fri, 03/26/2010 - 02:16 | 276606 bchbum
bchbum's picture

The banks have been given instructions from the fed:  Take as much as you can for at least the next year, in every way you can.

Fri, 03/26/2010 - 07:39 | 276693 tip e. canoe
tip e. canoe's picture


Fri, 03/26/2010 - 02:16 | 276607 JohnG
JohnG's picture

So, load up on Gold an Silver.  Simple enough.  When the manip is "discovered," price in FRN's will spike.

Been doing it for years, silver esp. is too cheap (FRN denominated).  Way cheap.

Lead is also a PM.

Fri, 03/26/2010 - 03:21 | 276629 godfader
godfader's picture

Objective? You mean the "Gold Anti-Trust Action Comittee" is objective??? LOL

Fri, 03/26/2010 - 05:10 | 276644 Miss American
Miss American's picture

Nobody ever needed any more 'proof' of blatent F/U manipulation than the daily charts.  They WANT people to know and become too discouraged to be on the long side, or to 'invest' in gold.  The THEFT is the real payoff with manipulation as a side benefit.  Too bad there can't be 'naked' buying as 100% of the transaction!  Maguire was brave to pretend to be 'showing' them the evidence and get in their face.  But when do we figure out that they don't give a f*** if we know?  Just like WMDs, 9/11, Lehman, climate-gate, ad nauseam.  They know we know, but plow right ahead, pretending they don't know that we know.  What I can't figure out is why they even HAD the hearing.   C'mon GATA and Butler.  Even if a case went to the "supreme' court, do you really think you would win?  HAHAHAHA

Fri, 03/26/2010 - 05:52 | 276654 plocequ1
plocequ1's picture

Manipulation, Illegal acts.. Isn't that legal?

Fri, 03/26/2010 - 06:29 | 276664 Instant Karma
Instant Karma's picture

Dear J.P. Morgan (et al):

I am glad you (likely with the blessings of central banks (money printers) everywhere) are tamping down the prices of silver and gold. This has allowed those late to the party (like me), reasonable (but not low) prices at which to buy physical precious metals. I have some dry powder and hope the prices of silver and gold get cut in half from here (although monetarily I don't see how that happens), so I can double down. Regards, Instant Karma.

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