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White House Says Tax Deal "Does Not Worsen The Medium- And Long-Term Deficit" Even Though Full Cost Will Be Over $5 Trillion
Perhaps for the best demonstration of what cutting education budgets in the US means for our nation's current and future mathematical capabilities, look no further than the White House's Propaganda, pardon Fact Sheet on the tax extensions. The only notable item is the following (which is stunningly added as an accomplishment): "The plan has three key accomplishments: Does not worsen the medium- and long-term deficit.
These are responsible, temporary measures to support our economy that
will not add costs by the middle of the decade. The President does not
believe it is affordable to make the high-income tax cuts permanent and
will continue to have that debate in the years ahead." Alas, that is a flat out lie. According to the Congressional Research Service, the cost of keeping the tax cuts will be just over $5 trillion over the next 10 years. And it will be at least 10 years: after Obama loses the 2012 presidential election, Republicans will have a carte blanche to make the Bush tax cuts permanent, and will likely do so. And, furthermore, this figure does not include the cost of the Unemployment Insurance extension.
A summary of the two opposing outcomes from the now concluded debate over the tax cut extension is provided from the report:
Allowing the Bush tax cuts to expire as scheduled will somewhat improve
the fiscal condition, but could stifle the economic recovery. At the
other extreme, permanently extending all of the Bush tax cuts would not
undercut the economic recovery, but would worsen the longer-term fiscal
outlook and possibly signal a lack of progress in dealing with the
long-term fiscal situation.
In other words, instead of doing something to actually fix the increasingly impossible fiscal situation, the two ruling parties once again took the easy way out to the detriment of future generations of Americans.
And the bottom line on why the Fed will have to monetize another $500 billion over the next 20 years and $5 trillion over the next decade is as follows:
The estimated budgetary costs of permanently extending the provisions of the Bush tax cuts are reported in Table 1. Over five years, extending the provisions are estimated to reduce tax revenues by $1,141 billion. The 10-year revenue loss is estimated to be $2,805 billion. By far the costliest provision to extend is the reduced individual income tax rates (which includes keeping the 10%, 25%, 28%, 33%, and 35% tax rates), accounting for over 50% of the total revenue loss. The estimated cost of extending these provisions amounts to over half of the estimated budget deficit that would result from allowing the Bush tax cuts to expire as scheduled.14 Debt service costs associated with permanently extending the Bush tax cuts are also reported in Table 1. Over the 10-year budget window, debt service costs are estimated to be $606 billion. Furthermore, the alternative minimum tax (AMT), which is likely to be indexed to inflation, interacts with the extension of the Bush tax cuts. The last row of Table 1 reports the combined costs of indexing the AMT, extending the Bush tax cuts, and associated debt service, which is estimated to be $5,048 billion over 10 years.
So let's see: no impact, or $5 trillion. Either the people in charge have never taken Grade 1 finance, or courtesy of the Fed, any number below 1 quadrillion is no longer considered significant. Our bet: both.
Full meaingless report below.
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Hello, Rock.
Nice to see you, HardPlace.
Naah, this will not affect any debts or deficits, naah. Actually, they should just put in some hard-asses as the Bosses in 2012. How about:
Turd / Bearing in 2012
¨Harder than the other guys!¨
I like it.
you'll need me as Sec of State because diplomacy and playing nice is my specialty
i love how everyone is pretending to get all wound up about the details when the only point of this was to put another year or two in here to help everyone in the upper upper classes to get their assets the hell out of here.
who gives a flying shit it if it hurts or doesn't hurt the economy? nobody important.
Yep. Exactly.
The 1M+ crowd has never had it sooo good.
We are soooooo Fucked !
No, THEY (.gov) are. I understand that politicians lie, cheat and steal, but usually they are more discreet than this. Right now we have the federal government elected politicians telling BALD-FACED lies that are easily overturned with a bit of numbers and critical thinking. The game is up, they know it and they are just stalling on the order of weeks/months before TSHTF.
He's been doing it since his campaign (and maybe earlier, I wasn't paying attention to him before) and nobody's called him on it once. What makes you think it is going to start now?
This is like that quote about having to spend more money to stop becoming broke
On this issue, the Congressman Stark interview never gets old:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UjbPZAMked0
"The National Debt is an indication of wealth."
The Reich Minister of Propaganda himself had nothing next to these puppets.
Just remember that the quality of the puppeteers (who work through the leadership puppets) is entirely dependent upon how much the real puppets (we the people) are willing to suspend disbelief when it comes to swallowing the propaganda.
While out for his morning stroll, the naked emperor is entirely dependent upon the crowd never pointing out the naked facts. This willing participation in the collective lie doesn't happen overnight but in fact takes a life time of conditioning and indoctrination. As long as the population in general and each individual in particular is led (induced?) to believe that it's in their own best interest not to look, never mind point out, that the emperor is naked, no one of collective consequence will ever be the little boy discussing the obvious.
We all understand that anyone can be corrupted by self interest. Except ourselves.....right? That's the secret to population control. Dispense the message by broadcasting to to everyone simultaneously. Yet engineer it in such a way that it enables each individual to find plausible deniability. Give everyone a reason on a personal basis to deny that something stinks in the wood pile. Allow each person just enough wiggle room to self deceive and you have the ultimate in mind control.
Welcome to Amerika.
Actually I just saved $21.00 having my haircut here in Peru this morning. $4.00 (inc. tip) here vs. $25.00 at The Hair Butchery in Amerika.
Savings, putaz!
$25??? Shave your head and you only pay for the blades and the shaving cream.
;-)
i have really nice hair, though...shaving my head would be like spray painting Starry Night...
Germans believe in hair cuts as well. Just paid 2.50 euro for a small water here in Germany (on biz). What is that, $4!!!
Absolutely correct Mr. Dissonance! And as I believe you've said before the responsibility (and ultimately, the capability) really is OURS!
I'm not religious (sorry, not much for dogmas)... but I always figured that the actual 'historical' Jesus was actually an early revolutionary...
And when he said 'the meek shall inherit the earth'...
He didn't mean some God-dude was going to come down with some super-lotto prize and it would be party time ever afterwards... but rather that regular people would inherit the earth when we stood up and took responsibility for it!
To 'inherit' is not simply to passively receive a gift... it's to assume a responsibility.
Indeed. All is well in Bizarre Land.. Sunny skies with a slight comfortable breeze..
Whom are you speaking of Hermann Geitner or Von Axelrod?
While gold and oil get slammed, investors are trumpeting the v-shaped global recovery by dryhumping Caterpillar to new, 2-year highs.
Amazing how this stock has gone from $20 to $90 in the worst recession in decades.
Cat makes up a fifth of the Dow and the President's Working Group on Financial Markets wishes to appease its corporate masters.
Oil selloff? $89.........
It takes earthmoving equipment to build underground bunkers and strip mine tar sands. What is CAT's % of sales to .gov?
Mount Weather gettin' old, and the oil gettin' sold (to China) bitchez!
Zackly Bitchez!
Robo lives in his own compucation cycle. His CPU needs an upgrade from the Intel 8088 to something more capable?
Wait till they report/ give future projections.
Oil's correlation to S&P is near 1 Robo. You aren't going to see oil get "slammed" w/o equities taking a bath too.
Robot, now that I am finally ahead (on paper) w/ CAT, maybe I will sell it when I get back.
I bought that at the wrong time. I just feel lucky to have gotten my money back on this one...
Bad move. Shes a keeper. Mining sales boooooooooming, everything else picking up also.
today's stock market is brought to you by the letter...V!
can I start calling you big bird? (i'm referencing your sesame street economics in case you didn't get that right away)
Debunking the US Government: Keynes' Last Friendhttp://lhmarketwatch.blogspot.com/2010/12/debunking-us-governent-keynes-...
Keynesianism is dead, long live Keynesianism! The Republicans and Democrats are just the two-sides of a worthless tin coin.
Dead man walking!
"Full proof?" Good Lord, get that guy an editor!
Hmmmm, I figured it was 'full', as in a 'perfect' "proof". It's fool isn't it? The eyes in my head see the world spinning round....
Where is today's POMO info?
$6.81 Billion
LOL
Who puts any credibility with these same clowns who have imploded the country to tell us all is well now?
Kick another $5 trillion down the road, on top of last weeks surprise extra $9 trillion...no we're not OK we're totaly fucked.
OT, but meanwhile Sen. Reid has put up 4 different versions of the Dream Act on the schedule to be voted on tomorrow.
None of them have any enforcement action to stop the flood of illegals into the country.
All of them offer amnesty.
The Repukes, who did nothing to stop the flow of illegals when they were in control, will offer a token resistance and in the end fold because this is the end game. Destroy the country from within.
I'd normally say to make sure you called your reps/senators to voice your opposition but at this stage of the game I'm quite sure the vote is rigged. It can't be much of a coincidence that Reid postponed the vote a week ago and it now just happens to fall a day after the tax cuts are extended as a quid pro to the repukes.
Relax. Not. gonna. happen.
Just Reid pandering to the Hispanic vote with a little political theater. Just like the two doomed tax votes he scheduled a few days ago.
At what point does the ratio get just too f-ing big for them to keep over-reaching? Seriously, it's like TD said, just issue 1 quadrillion to fill the hole... it's just money right? WTF
The banks should be burned at the stake.
Obummer did this for 2012 and not to be a grinch. The repubs did this to make sure Obummer won't have a shot in 2012. "READ MY LIPS". Only Palin could screw the pooch.
We are fucked big time.
Yes we are. But, we knew all that 2 years ago. Grant you, fucked even worse that I had predicted back then.
Buy gold & silver & guns & ammo. Some food. Sleep a little better.
Medium and long term deficit? So no impact on 6 month to 1 year deficit? Or did the WH just confuse deficit and debt?
They'd better be careful, otherwise all this short-term stuff not effecting the medium-to-long-term might add up to a large debt problem someday.
</sarc>
I want some of the magic pixie dust they're snorting.
Well of course it "Does Not Worsen The Medium - And Long-Term Deficit," because nothing can!
Infinity (and its corresponding crack-up boom) is already cooked into the books.
no need to worry, Ben's got our back and will beckon the presses to "full steam ahead!"
"Perhaps for the best demonstration of what cutting education budgets..."
I am not sure it is about cutting education *budgets* as opposed to standards, curriculum, quality, dumbing down, etc.
150 years ago, the education budget was zero, at least at the federal, state, county, city, and municipal level. I don't have statistics, but I seriously doubt that parents spent anywhere near the $10K per child that gets spent nowadays, either.
And yet the kids who came out of those schools were literate and numerate. Despite education budget *increases* for the past, what, 50 years, education quality has gone down almost in linear correspondence with budgets going up.
OT and anecdotal: 1925 Grandmother traveled from city to city as an English teacher. The town with the highest bid won her education (sometimes it was just a house and food). Students were not allowed to fail and they still had time to work the farm.
yes but we didn't have to teach DIVERSITY back then and the system was not set up to provide equality of outcome under DIVERSITY standards.
DIVERSITY is our "greatest strength" and the most important thing in the world. I hear this all the time, so it must be true.
Spending is what determines outcome, and I don't know why we call smart kids "gifted" anymore. It's obvious their parents bought them intelligence.
Two years to election. No fiscal restraint. Completely conventional.
QE3 is going to be a very big ship. Bernanke knew this was coming.
Gold just got monkeyhammered.
Turds call today...
...."Feb11 gold is already $4 off its lows at 1420. Too much momentum, too strong of dip-buying by the BoS and too much POMO ($8B today). All commods will grind higher from here today. Gold will be back pushing 1430 by this afternoon."....
We will see.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pGXpqwp7Guw&feature=related
Silver .......... Another 5 trillion in debt/dollars WTF ?
I don't know how accurate it is but I found a calculator that allows you to check to see what your tax burden would be if the Bush tax cuts expire. It also calculates what your burden would be if they are extended under the Dems or the Reps plans. Check it out at http://mytaxburden.org/
I don't know about the rest of you but the calculated increase of $435 per month for my family would be quite the burden with 3 growing kids and food/energy inflation going through the roof.
There is no way to fix debt anyway so might as will have a few more years/months to prepare with the extra $435. Thats my view anyway.
I'm against all income tax on a moral basis. So I agree..
Me too. Income tax means BIG & NOSY .gov. Yeah, really cool.
would be nice if they actually reduced spending, but nope, two wars, bailouts, extended welfare and food stamps....loooook out below. Inflation is the politically easy way to get GDP growth and inflate away debt.
How about a good old fashioned supply shock (oil shortage) to blame the inflation on something else?
Neither the IRS nor the deficit is going to disappear, so if the top 2% don't pay the additional 4.6%, you and I --- and your three children --- will be forced to pay it with interest.
Yes, I understand the "starve the beast" theory, but I also understand very clearly it has not worked. It's a scam. Cutting taxes has NOT resulted in less spending. Indeed, cutting taxes has lead to MORE spending because borrowing makes spending appear painless. Just look at your own behavior. Do you spend more or less when you pay with a credit card or with cash? Now tell me the answer if you pose the same question to your teenage children (and I equate Congress with teenage children when it comes to the ease with which the spend other people's money).
As has been proven, to spend is to tax. To cut spending, you've got to make spending painful. And you've got to hit those who hold the power over Congress: the top 2%. Without raising the top rates, they'll just keep the government borrowing.
double post
Worrying about silly deficits is so 1980s! The faster we fall behind the more time we have to catch up.
Endgame? Anyone?
is our only hope some sort of cyber attack destruction of the markets and banks causing a global reset to the SDR based on PM's held physical?
"would someone like to tell me what the fuck is going on.....like.....slowly?"
Gotta love the rationalizations... We can't afford to permanently stop taking property by force therefore we will help ourselves to a little bit less for a short amount of time. There is no moral high ground in politics to be found. It's all based on force of arms.
In 1897, the New York Sun received a letter from an eight year old Virginia O’Hanlon who questioned the existence of Santa Claus. The Sun in an editorial reaffirming Santa’s presence in the heart, mind and spirit of us all. The editorial ran for 49 consecutive years and its “Yes Virginia, there is a Santa Claus” remains with us more than a century thereafter as a continuing reminder of optimism and caring.
Dear Santa Claus;
I am 8 years old. Some of my little friends say there is no Santa Claus. Papa says, “If you see it in The Sun, it’s so.” Please tell me the truth, is there a Santa Claus?
Virginia O’Hanlon
Virginia, your little friends are wrong. They have been affected by the skepticism of a skeptical age. They do not believe except what they see. They think that nothing can be which is not comprehensible by their little minds.
All minds, Virginia, whether they be men’s or children’s, are little. In this great universe of ours, man is a mere insect, an ant, in his intellect as compared with the boundless world about him, as measured by the intelligence capable of grasping the whole of the truth and knowledge.
Santa Claus exists as certainly as love and generosity and devotion exist, and you know that they abound and give to your life its highest beauty and joy. Alas! How dreary be the world if there were no Santa Claus! It would be as dreary as if there were no Virginias. There would be no childlike faith then, no poetry, no romance to make tolerable this existence. We should have no enjoyment, except in sense and sight. The external light with which childhood fills the world would be extinguished.
Not believe in Santa Claus! You might as well not believe in fairies. Nobody sees Santa Claus, but that is no sign that there is no Santa Claus. The most real things in the world are those that neither children nor men can see. Did you ever see fairies dancing on the lawn? Of course not, but that’s no proof that they are not there. Nobody can conceive or imagine all the wonders there are unseen and unseeable in the world.
No Santa Claus? Thank God he lives and lives forever. A thousand years from now, Virginia, nay 10 times 10,000 years from now, he will continue to make glad the heart of childhood.
Yes, Virginia, there is a Santa Claus.
we get the leaders we deserve?
Spending is the new saving.
This is one of the dumbest things I've read in a while. I know, let's calculated the lost revenue on the 60 some odd percent of untaxed earnings. That's right, we need to bring the total tax up to 100% cause otherwise we'll lose X bajillion dollars. Screw that. Go ahead and print the difference if you're not going to do the right thing and cut spending. At least that way I can protect myself from the theft.
Again with the framing of the problem as:
"Tax cuts will cost $$$$$$", or "Tax cuts will have to be 'paid for' by borrowing more money from China, etc."
No, no, no, a quintillion times NO. Tax CUTS are not something Uncle Sugar writes you, me, and Warren Buffett a check for. What they do mean is Uncle Sugar STEALS just a little bit less of YOUR money. Implying that stealing less of your moola is a 'cost burden' is the sort of mentality the corpulent slime-slurpers running the show want us to adopt.
STOP ALL FEDERAL SPENDING NOT ALLOWED BY THE CONSTITUTION. Live within your means Washington, just like us simple mundanes have to each and every day.
Homework assignment: Write 'Tax cuts are not an expense, they are a reduction in theft' one thousand times or until it starts to sink in.
Do not let the debate be framed in feudal terms.
Easy to say. Tell me all the "cutting" that Republicans and Dems did over the last decade. Each controlled Congress for substantial proportions of time.
Come on, tell me what they did. And if you can't, your point is lost.
The answer, of course, is little to none. Both factions of the congressional puppet oligarchy increased spending instead. Which is my point.
Not sure where my point gets 'lost'.
We're agreed that spending will increase. Thus, tax cuts WILL cost all of us, because continued deficit spending requires more and more borrowing/printing/QEing/POMOing/etc.
Tax cuts are the last thing we need at this time. It's not "stealing" to increase taxes (or not extend the Bush cuts), it's the only sane thing to do when we knowing spending is going to increase.
The key is 'continued deficit spending'. THAT is the problem, NOT the measly pittance of a reduction in theft. Increasing taxes is most assuredly, unequivocally, STEALING.
Do you have any control over if/how much you pay in taxes, what your taxes are spent on, or determining your tax rate? If not, then your money is being taken involuntarily, which is the definition of theft.
Raising taxes is the epitome of the most INSANE thing to do. The answer is to CUT spending and REDUCE the tax burden. Your argument only serves to reinforce the 'continued deficit spending' as an unalterable given, as opposed to a very neccessarily alterable non-given.
See things for what they ARE, as opposed to the way our would-be feudal overlords SAY they are.
The Constitution enables people to vote. And the manner in which is is set up favors the two-party system we have now. Those elected set the taxes.
Now, if you tell me you don;t support the Constitution, and haven't voted in the last ten years, you're totally justified in your position. But if you're playing the system, then you should spank yourself
Sorry Zak, the Constitution says nothing about 'Bi-Factional Ruling Oligarchy Only' last time I checked. Those elected representatives are no 'representing' the people when they set the tax rates. Thus, they are in violation of their oath of office, and therefore NOT working within the clearly defined rules set forth in the Constitution.
So blaming me for 'playing the system' is an off-target argument. It's not my fault, or yours, that Congress does what it does. It is my fault, and yours, that they get away with it.
Before I spank myself though, please tell me...are YOU 'playing the system'? :-0
It's stealing to me! I see how much money I earn called Gross(it's really gross) and then I see net(after the government steals from me).
I've asked them to stop but they keep on doing it week in and week out!
I tried not paying it once and I was put in hand cuffs and hauled before the magistrate.
I was threatened with prison if I didn't pay up, that my friend is clled coercion of force!
I've got an idea... how about all those who think they should give the government more money do so voluntarily and let me keep mine.
This isn't tax cuts it's stopping tax increases.
When somebody robs me, they don't give me anything in return. So if taxes are stealing, then please make sure you didn't do any of the following in your pathetic little life:
Take off or land at an airport
Drive on a public road
Use the internet
Get treated with antibiotics
Check out a book from a library
Attend public school
Have a father or mother who receive Medicare, SS or veteran's benefits
Buy or sell stock on a regulated exchange
Use electricity from a regulated utility
Drink clean water from a municiple source
Never reported a crime to the police
Never received the untold indirect benefits of living in a civilization, such as walking amongst the rest of us and not getting immediately hit over the head and robbed --- really robbed.
Please show me where the US Constitution specifically allows the FEDERAL government to do any of the things you just listed (interstate commerce provisions towards the internet excluded).
As for your last sentence, that sort of thing happens with ridiculous regularity in 'civilization', the difference being that nowadays government occasionally takes part in the pillaging. In the history of the world, no government has ever PREVENTED a crime.
It's stealing when you take 40-50% of what I earn fucktard! Enough is enough.... funny my great grandfather attended public schools had electricity and clean water(by the way my water comes from the ground through a well and I didn't relaize the government created water??? ) and drove on public roads but sure as hell didn't pay 40 -50% of his income to big brother.
jesus, if that's ALL the gov did, we'd have a multitrillion $ surplus.
You idiots ALWAYS trot out the false dilemmas of "clean water" OR "don't pay taxes," as if there is not a continuum of options in between these two cherrypicked binary and mutually exclusive outcomes.
Fuck, man, the US became the richest nation on earth with no income tax and no central bank.
There is an option for governments to tax MODERATELY for services such as police and infrastructure. However, that is not what we get from them. We have a gigantic leviathan with a military in 850 bases in most of the world, simultaneously in two "wars" or whatever they're called now, with hundreds of thousands of troops operating continuously since 2003!
Even the pollsters who talk about the "wars" phrase it as "our winning" or "the terrorists' winning." WTF?
I counsel EVERYONE to think critically and never accept TWO choices as the only outcomes; this is most often a false dilemma intended to drive a particular conclusion or inference. I'm not sure we're even fighting fucking terrorists, are we? So how could it be that they or we are winning?
You have already spent all the tax cuts you have ever paid.
You just don't get it.
Fed Tax cuts into this just result in you being raped by other means. You don't gain anything it is just stolen from the other pocket.
ANd guess what , you can't stop it no matter your slogans.
You ain't got the sack and neither does what's left of this trash heap.
This whole deal is just sickening. The Obama administration is using the same silly game that Bush used - publishing long term numbers assuming that these will be allowed to expire in 2 years. Obama should have taken the hit now and let them expire in exchange for a way to phase out the AMT.
The Republicans won the 2010 election in no small part by promising to reduce the deficit, and now they held their breath until they got $a couple trillion more added to the national debt. As James Traficant would say: "Beam me up!"
It seems I have a different perspective than you. I want the Republicans, especially the ones that take office next year, to both cut taxes and cut spending. If only taxes are cut then we will have problems, but if they do what they said they will do then they need to cut federal spending substantially starting next year. If they fail to do that then I will do what I can to vote these newcomers out.
I am in the middle class level of income and letting the Obama tax increases take place would hit me hard. When I add up the federal and state taxes, sales tax, gas tax, fees, etc, the government is taking over 40% of my income and I am not rich. This is quasi slavery, the purpose of government is not to maximize revenues nor steal and waste my money to get politicians elected. My solution is to cut spending across the board by 20%-25%, and tell any complaining federal employee or parasite taking my money to go pound sand.
Easy to say. Tell me all the "cutting" that Republicans and Dems did over the last decade. Each controlled Congress for substantial proportions of time.
Tell me, or admit you're just pounding sand, or living in a world with skittle-shitting unicorns.
Why are you arbitrarily picking the last decade as a predictor of future events. You seem to be assuming the cache principle of the MRU (Most Recently Used) to base your future predictions. However, there are points in our history where there have been drastic cuts in government spending. Andrew Jackson came close to actually getting rid of government debt, about a hundred years later Harding/Coolidge slashed government expenditures drastically. I think we are heading towards hard times were the idiotic MRU practices are going to be abandoned and realized for the crap they are, at least for a short time. The battle between the gods of the market place and the gods of the copybook headings are in play and soon the gods of the copybook headings with terror and slaughter will return.
40% you figure, eh? I figure it's a lot higher than that they are just very good at hiding it. The cost of every good and service you buy, from a sweater-vest at Ross Dress for Less to a watered-down Rum and Diet Coke at the local pub is inflated by the cost of taxation such as all kinds of payroll taxes, electricity taxes, property taxes, OSHA taxes, liquor license, health inspections, rent and payroll taxes, and of course liquor "sin" taxes among others. The factory that made the sweater, and in which the Rum and Coke bottles were filled, probably also had all kinds of taxes, permits, and licenses which similarly inflate the cost which is always passed on to you in some fashion.
I figure 40% is very conservative by the time you add up all the state and local taxes you pay directly and indirectly.
I agree, I do not even know how to really compute how much is stolen through Bernanke's stealth inflation tax. The system needs a reboot. Where the F*%K is Tron to come take out the MCP?
Housewife spends and spends and racks up debt on credit card after credit card on meaningless expensive drivel jeopardizing family financial stability. Housewife demands more money from husband (end Bush tax cuts), husband claims if you take anymore I will no longer be able to run our family business and lay off a bunch of employees (unemployment increases) and our income will be cut (lower standard of living).
Solution: Divorce from nutjob big government keynesian housewife.
Reducing revenue is anot a cost. Extending the Bush tx cuts do not COST ANYTHING. lost revenue is lost revenue. IT IS NOT A COST. Tyler....I am ashamed that you would stoop to the old baseline budgeting arguement to defend this. Opportunity costs are not quantitative costs.
Eureka! Someone gets it!
+ 1 quintillion
Your pal Ace admitted above that spending is never going to be cut. So reducing revenue and not cutting spending is beneficial HOW?????
LOL! Zak where did I say spending is 'never' going to be cut? It is precisely the opposite of what I AM saying NEEDS to be done.
What I said was spending has not been cut by either sector of the bi-factional ruling oligarchy. I think you're 'overanalyzationalizing' our posts, dude.
But this bi-factionalism is the result of how the Constitution is set up. That's the system.
I'm not saying you're wrong in your analysis, but I am wondering how you think it's going to change. I'm basically just questioning your optimism. Sorry for yelling, but this preposterous "compromise" which will only take us down sooner has really depressed me.
it's not a matter of it's beneficial or not beneficial. It's a matter of principal and what is right and wrong. Why should I be an enabler of a damn drug addict who can't control their spending?
If there is a way I can get some of the money back from them that they are stealing from I could care less of the consequences. Let them suffer withdrawal and crash and burn.
"Damn it Barry, I told you to read off the teleprompter."
F this S. They can't spend $9 trillion in 2 years and then tell me that $50B a year will send us to hell in a handbasket. Where's my fiddle?
I have asked President Obama to change his party affiliation from (D) to (R) as he is obviously far more comfortable appeasing them than adhering to his supposed base.
Here is text of message sent to the White House:
"In prior correspondence, I had already noted that your presidency cannot be supported by those of us who are progressive/left wing in our political orientation.
That said, even from a centrist perspective, your latest cave-in on extending Bush tax-cuts for all, including the wealthy, is not only a brazen sellout, it also obviously imperils Social Security and Medicare, not to mention education and other programs vital to the middle-class. You do not have the courage to stand firm for those programs, hence by your tax-cut cave-in you have already signaled that those entitlement programs will be cut in order to pay for the $trillions in tax-cut benefits that you have just capitulated on.
If you are not already doing so, would you please consider changing your party affiliation to (R), as you are becoming an embarrassment to the supposed policy base of the (D) party. We who are progressive do not know who you are anymore. If you are bound and determined to appease (R)s, then do, please, go ahead and join them."
Better yet, O needs to retrace his roots, back to Chi-town, then Harvard, then Hawaii, Indonesia and finally to a small hut in Kenya. Boo-Yah! Mr. President!
Ah, sorry to inform you, but this is a bipartisan -- not a Democratic -- deal here.
US taxpayers as Marsellus Wallace, Fed as Zed.
"Naw, man, I'm pretty fucking far from OK..."
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rWOn1dFmFds
raising people's taxes now would have been INSANE. just cut the damn spending already.
Say what you will about this deal, the problem is not taxes or tax rates, the problem is federal SPENDING. Until we get our fiscal house in order, we will never have enough revenue.
Also:
1. Tax the "rich" at whatever level you like, this will NOT balance the budget and will result in LESS tax revenue. There are insufficient rich people and rich people's money.
2. If you want free markets and capitalism, then you will by definition have rich people. Not sure what is wrong with having rich people, I would like to be one.
3. The problem is we do not have free markets and capitalism, we have a convoluted form of crony capitalism, some call it fascism. Call it whatever, but capitalism it is not. Get the government out of the business of picking winners and losers, especially in the financial markets.
This is so basic and fundamental, but it is much easier to fall into the class warfare trap. To bad so many do not see it and fall into that Leninesque category of "useful idiots".
sschu
sschu,
Thank you for your remarks, whatever they mean.
Yours,
Useful Idiot
LOL, but in a very sad and depressed way.
YES!! Someone else gets it too!
+ 1 (what's next after quintillion? sextatillion?)
Your claim is factually false. Tax rates on high income individuals was upwards of 90% on income above a certain level during the time period of America's most robust growth and development.
Your statement concerning taxes is a matter of "belief" and not of fact. Your belief is fine, you can believe whatever you need to believe for as long as you can believe whatever it is. I have no truck with people's beliefs and do not quarrel with them.
I do, however, place a value on accurate factual claims. Yours are false.
I'm starting to have alot of trouble, as my bullshit tolerance fuse is becoming overloaded
Of course it adds to the deficit.
What they should of done is
a) pass the unemployment
b) pass glass-stegall
c) watch our glass-steagall in action
d) watch our national debt drop by trillions
e) watch the funds that would have been used to hyperinflate us, be gone, or dispersed into the real economy instead of the paper one.
As for tax cuts, please, that's part of what got us here. Of course, Barack 'the cock' NerObummer, the post-election republican will have no problem doing this. It's not like he went against any campaign promises or anything. It's not as if he doesn't want the fascist deficit commission along with Rand "facsist hapsburg idiot fucktard" Paul won't come together...once the BLS puts out stats saying the economy has strengthened, even in the face of hyperinflation, they'll push for cuts.
Oh yes, the fascists of both party, are wholly in control.
Glass-Steagall
NAWAPA
Nuclear power
Fusion/Fusion Arc
Space program
It's not hard. It's not out of our grasp. Wipe out the fraudulent debt, and let gov't lead the way while the private sector licks its wounds and rebounds AROUND the platforms and ideals the gov't resets as our priorities. You know AMERICAN, not IMPERIALIST ideals. You know the kind of ideas we still take credit for (pre 1945) while actually engaging in imperialist actions (mostly 1945+).
5 trillion for rich fucktards that won't hire more than 10,000 people with that 5 trillion. I guess this is the Wal*Mart sophistry going around. Save More. Live Better. Complete Bull*shit.
It's all bullshit. This tax deal is designed to help the banks... again. I know, what a shocker! The dumb government must go deep into the red so it can borrow $ from the banks at 3-5% who in turn get interest free money from the FED. With this deal they've just hit the hyperdrive button to help their WFC, BAC, C zombies survive another year or so. If governments were to balance their budgets, the banks would die in a fucking nanosecond. C'mon folks, it's not rocket science how the fiat system works!