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Whose Line Is It?
Guess what extremely charismatic (if extremelier teleprompted) future leader of the free world uttered the following rhetorically elegant, if completely and utterly hollow, words:
"The fact that we are here today to debate raising America’s debt limit is a sign of leadership failure. It is a sign that the U.S. Government can’t pay its own bills. It is a sign that we now depend on ongoing financial assistance from foreign countries to finance our Government’s reckless fiscal policies. … Increasing America’s debt weakens us domestically and internationally. Leadership means that ‘the buck stops here. Instead, Washington is shifting the burden of bad choices today onto the backs of our children and grandchildren. America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership. Americans deserve better."
If you said Barack H. Obama, give yourself a golfclap. And if you are scratching your head furiously at the seemingly unbelievable hypocrisy after how just four years later, the president's own economic advisor Austan Goolsbee said that a refusal by the Senate to increase the government’s debt
ceiling would be “catastrophic” and a sign of "insanity" don't worry, you are not alone. In fact, very few people can believe the self-professed "insanity" of the very people who four years ago were all about prudent fiscal behavior but now couldn't give a rat's ass about drowning the country in $150 billion in debt each and every month.
And some other observations on the teleprompter's facility with swaying in the wind via the National Review Online:
In 2007 and in 2008, when the Senate voted to increase the limit by $850 billion and $800 billion respectively, Obama did not bother to vote. (He did vote for TARP, which increased the debt limit by $700 billion.)
Sen. Jim DeMint (R., S.C.) told Human Events in an interview released today that the decision about the debt ceiling “needs to be a big showdown” in the Senate.
“We are going to cut [spending] necessary to stay within the current levels, which is over $14 trillion,” said DeMint.
If by "big showdown", DeMint means the latest pathetic theater of, for and by the government, which pretends to care about the middle class, while continuing to pander to the top 0.1% of US society, then he is absolutely spot on.
But yes, the president is correct. Americans do deserve better... than the corrupt puppet frauds that are allegedly representing their interests in the judicial, legislative and executive branches of the Wall Street purchased US government.
h/t Lucy
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One thing that really irritates me: Dumb Fucks who can't figure out that NOT INCREASING the amount of taxes someone pays isn't a cut.
Pissing and moaning about the deficit/debt result of the tax cut extensions is beneath us. In the next year, POMO is going to make the supposed loss of collection from those tax rates look like Myrtle's egg money. The game is over. No matter what we do, this ship is sunk, so how about letting me keep as much of what's mine as possible, and just MAYBE I'll have enough scratched together to feed your dumb ass when the shit blows up. Who the fuck are you to decide? Go crawl back under your rock and eat your cheese.
The tax reduction law is temporary, the new law is an extension of the temporary tax reduction. It is not permanent. You should make future decisions based on the fact that the tax reduction is temporary, if it turns out being permanent, then that is a bonus.
Understood. I'm not arguing the semantics of increase/reduction/cut, I'm arguing the justification of confiscating ANY more tax money from ANYBODY at ANY income level than what we do now.
Believe me, I understand what I say. If my not paying a few more grand a year, or severe austerity means we topple? So be it. What's the alternative? Keep borrowing until nobody will lend and then we borrow 100% from ourselves and topple? So be it. We're going to topple anyway, and digging the hole deeper by getting one more drop of blood from my stones isn't going to fix it.
If I honestly thought that we could fix this abortion with more of the same bullshit I would more than likely just pony up. But you and I both know it just ain't gonna work. Buy a little time MAYBE, but what good is that really?
Liberals (mainly) like to say that the top brackets don't pay "their fair share". That's a hell of an irritating thing to hear when half the dumb fucks saying it (present company excluded of course) don't pay shit, and I'M ALREADY PAYING their share for them. I pay enough.
I didn't junk you BTW.
there is no justification. period. way beyond any mandate, especially over the past 40 years. just make sure you've got the right target lined up straight....rhetorically speaking.
I feel the same about when people say it "will cost the government..." It doent cost them because it is not their money. We simply giving them less to work with. Until the media/people view the money as ours, and not the governments, we cannot move forward.
IMF end game 2011, courtesy of Webster Tarpley. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KVaCXGZE89k
IMF? What about the BIS which is already the central bank for the central banks and has unelected and dictatorial regulatory power over all of the central and international banks?
Yea, I stopped watching it after a minute. Totally ignored the existence of the BIS.
It wasn't supposed to be a definative summation of everything going on in economics. The video also ignored house prices, the brazilian central bank and gold, so what?
The point is that the IMF will be the lender of last resort like always, the end game will be world economic governence through all the global financial institutions like the IMF, World Bank, BIS who are all in cahoots with the power elite.
At the moment the BIS may be able to tell central banks what to do but they are unable to directly boss around national governments in the manner the IMF does to debt bound third world countries at the moment.
it'll be interesting to see how far Jerry Brown's new 'vote to pay, or it goes away' plan works out... very interesting if it catches on in other states and perhaps congress?? yeah wishful thinking in the new year
I dont' live in CA so I'm not familiar with this plan but it sounds like raising taxes or charging citizens for services that are already covered by your taxes. Where does that end?
It ends when we all have nothing.
don't forget death and destruction
what's suppose to happen is that they will cut many many things but then let the public vote on what to keep.. the catch is that they will have to pay more taxes on those... interesting. No clue if it will just be a facade but worth paying attention to..
As a resident of California it means we're all screwed. The little piggies in this state have been feeding at the trough for so long they aren't going to know what to do with themselves when there's no more slop to feed on. They'll run around the barnyard squealing like the entitled brats they are until the butcher comes out to slaughter them.
It's time for a showdown!
Yesterday, Rand Paul said that there IS an alternative to perennially increasing the debt limit. We can live within our means and spend ONLY what we take in!
I'm for that -- NOW! Slash the budget!
I dont know why anyone would junk you this whole thread is a rant against gov't debt increasing . At least they can get some balls and explain maybe .
As for me I was for slashing the budget back when it wasn't hip . Now I am just over it and I don't put any faith in any politician . Representation in DC has been diluted to the extent where a citizen is powerless in the republic . If there was a rep for every 100 people there then maybe there would be some representation there . Honestly with todays technology we could all represent ourselves . We don't need leaders in todays world .
This type of discussion is premium grade-A troll feed. They flock to it like vultures to carrion.
"Honestly with todays technology we could all represent ourselves"
I like this idea.
I would have thought that was Ronald Reagan telling republicans in 1982 that they'd have to sacrafice principles just this once to bring about the reform. Rothbard pointed out that was the end of significance for the Old Right in republican party.
OT here.
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city/gurgaon/Citibank-fraud-case-FIR-...
Don't expect anything to happen on this front though.
Could they please just raise the debt limit to an imaginary number and be done with it?
Raise it to 72 kabillion and promise to never raise it above that.
they would spend 72 kabillion over the weekend...and not have any money left for sunday night pizza
"I just don't think I'd be doing the voters in my state justice if I agreed to support any legislation that had less than the 84 kabillion necessary to create jobs and get us back on a path to sustainability."
The 100% maximum debt level limit to GDP is a fantasy made up by the banks 20 years ago.
Same thing for consumers. Once a loan that's not backed up by assets is higher then your yearly salary you where fucked.
But actually, people who have a credit card debt of 50% of their yearly income are already in deep shit. Once you cross over that, the speed of debt increase goes up. Maybe not every month but by every "unforseen" event. Insurance bills, a car that needs fixing... and boom you're at 100% before you know it and you're working just to pay down interests.
The way out? There's only 1: Make more money. Downpaying won't help with the income you had when you took the loan you had.
For a person that means : take on a extra job
For a state that means: create extra income. from taxes or create jobs/industries.
And if you're at your limit already or your salary actually goes down, you'll be paying for the rest of your life and won't be able to afford anymore extra's. And because you'll always stay above 50%, any drop below 100% will be fast caught up with a "unforseen" event that will put you right back in the rear seat.
What is also amazing is the fact that once people who are indebted at 100% and who suddenly get acces to extra funds, they almost never use it to downpay debt! Never! They spend it at twice the usual rate because they felt bad that they couldn't spend and want to get that feeling back as fast as possilbe that they are oké! And before you know it, the pit is even deeper.
And once they know how to "find" extra money, it becomes very cloudy for them to even know how much they own because they make it complex from where the money comes from (3 visa's and switching funds...). At that point they aren't even thinking about downpayments but only the cost of interest payments. And whatever they downpayed, will be redrawn in the next 6 months and spend faster then before.
Learn you're kids to spend money they they saved. It's easier to spend money then to downpay for a pleasure you bought in the past.
I see people here in Europe do this and Americans do this to. It's called : having a microwave brain. You want everything now, as fast as possible.
Whatever the cost.
such detail.. is this from first hand experience? ;)
Option 2: Default
Meaning "let someone else pay for my lack of discipline and desire to consume more than I make - I really can not be held responsible for myself."
If you buy corporate debt, you have a claim on assets. If a company defaults/bankrupts, you have a claim on the remaining liquidation value. An investor will look at the risks and buy the bond for a value which balances the risk. If you buy government debt, what is your claim in the event of a default? nothin as far as I know. It is a foolish investor which buys a unsecured promise to pay due to their full-faith the government will pay.
That being said, they will always pay...in FRN's. its only paper afterall.
Learn you're kids to spend money they they saved. It's easier to spend money then to downpay for a pleasure you bought in the past. I see people here in Europe do this and Americans do this to. It's called : having a microwave brain. You want everything now, as fast as possible.
Nice description of Keynesian high time preference.
Kudos!. That's much better.
The Republicans make a big show about the debt, but unfortunately they are not serious about it. They plan to implement more tax breaks without paying for them. They want to wipe out a lot of programs (social safety nets) and increase the defense budget. They are going to add to the deficit big time.
'Republicrats'....'Demicans'...sheesh people get over it already, I thought Zerohedge types were way beyond the 2 headed 1 party system designed to keep the sheeple in different pens on the same farm.
Sheep, I don't know if you're familiar with Jungian personality types (MBTI) but the majority of the world are not Rationals (NT, or Intuitive Thinkers) but rather Sensing-Feeling (SF) types. These people only have the ability to see what is immediately in front of them and either feel good or bad about it. They cannot see beyond the two teams on the field, whether it's politics, football or their spouse. They do not have the ability to think abstractly and ask "why." While folks on ZeroHedge are mostly intelligent that does not mean they are Rationals. I'd wager the majority of posters here are either Sending and/or Feeling types and that's why logical analysis is sometimes shunned in favor of emotional feel-goodism or simply following the herd.
+1 very good Visual so true.
Just curious, but has the human genome project been tasked with identifying genetic markers for these types you describe?
We could use that info to give the part darwin got right a little kickstart, in order to make up for the lost time due to nanny state regulation.
yes, we could use a little more evolving and a lot less devolving
SP or SJ...the other two are NT and NF; by far the largest group is SPs, the happy go lucky fun types. Not your deepthinkers or analyzers.
Now I feel bad... I think.
spot on, but let's go one step further:
it's not about left vs. right
it's not about neoconservative vs. neoliberal
it's not about labor vs. corporativism
it's not about democracy vs. republic
it's not about democracy vs. theocracy
it's not about fascism vs. communism
these are just distractions to keep one at the feeding trough (of belief in the state). that is what voting is all about, to give one the false belief that he matters, and that his voice is equal (or superior) to all the other peasants. it IS about me vs. them, or if you prefer, We the People (as individuals) vs. them. it IS about individualism vs. collectivism. it IS about liberty.it's about the elite vs the rest, the haves vs have nots, they want collectivism for all, individualism for them. we're a mistake.
double
perpetuating the illusion of choice
The distraction of left vs. right to disguise the up vs. down. The ups are currently winning.
corekt sir/ms.
So you're worried about the budget? About the deficit? The national debt? Irresponsibility? Because, if you are, the problem of the Republicans is not solved by the Democrats. Unless, of course, if what you mean to say is that you're concerned that the distribution of money during the fiscal disintigration of the U.S. is not going to be directed sufficiently toward you through tax breaks and so you want more govt. services or whatever.
The counter argument is that all money is created out of debt and an increase in the debt is an increase in the US and global economy (through leakage and trickle down).
Does this mean they are going to reinstate a "bailout limit" for Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac? Think about that for a second... Fannie, Freddie, the Federal Housing Administration and the Department of Veterans Affairs backed nearly 90% of new home loans in the first three quarters of 2010, according to Inside Mortgage Finance. If taxpayer/government support of the housing market is pulled away, as it should be... hello Great Depression II. The private market for home mortgages has shriveled to almost nothing. The housing market is essentially 100% dependent on government support from a second meltdown.
If they don't increase the ceiling a "bailout limit" is plausible. The bail out girly men won't like this.
The Fedral Reserve would not be constrained by a debt ceiling. The ceiling would only apply to the treasury. The FED is free to bailout whom ever and with as much as they want (Kabillion was thrown around earlier).
Interesting
The government doesn't listen to or care about the desires of the populace, unless the populace chooses to rebel. Therefore, if people are not going to rebel, this discussion is meaningless.
The government will do what it wants.
Consequently, the best we can do is go private. Create black markets, create private monetary substitutes, Barter, eliminate a tax trail, refuse to consume any more than necessary (and when we do, pay cash), stop voting (it lends legitimacy), stop writing government and ignore their requests to the last possible moment.
Passive resistance and public contempt for all government officials.
Stop serving in the military, teach your children the dangers of patriotism and the danger of government. Build viable community support groups. Stop listening to advertising and start thinking. Build a paper library. Build seed banks. Buy farmland.
Government has no reason to listen to us or seek our approval. Who wants to be on that side of a trade?
A friend of mine owns a small automobile repair shop. A little while ago one of the banks or credit card companies informed him the fees were going to increase for plastic transactions. His response "Come pick up your hardware before something happens to it, I just had my mechanic launch it into the middle of the road, have a nice day". And from that moment on it has been S.C. (Strictly Cash) for customers as well as vendors and business has increased to boot.
that is the best story i have read all day. this needs to happen. but that mechanic, is a very very large human being with a big set of them. he is the only man in this country.
He isn't the only one... Far from it. There are Women too...
I know several small biz owners that have booted the CC machines...
Cash only. No Checks.
Gun Shop - Man -- He takes Silver, Gold, Ammo, Cars, Boats, Planes, Goats, Sheep, Cows, Frozen Elk Meat... Whatever you got.
Jewlery Store - Woman
Nail Salon - Woman
and then there was Ann Minch
http://creditcardforum.com/blog/youtube-debtors-revolt-did-it-work/
been bartering within my extended community for decades, using various methods - female.
also haven't owned/watched TV for years, don't vote, nor am I interested in any of their lies, am selective with ALL incoming information, garden, have chickens/goats, carder/spinning wheel -best thing is, it's been a way of life prior to this great unraveling. . .
one needn't possess exterior genitalia to understand & refuse the systems offered.
If he started to accept silver instead then we would really be on to something....
The day is coming soon where it will be commonplace. The problem at this point is what's the justification in parting with my PM if the business will take FRN? Unless you have an excess of metal (not me) and are looking to take a profit, there's no upside.
Soon.
awesome! made for a very happy and sane feeling if ethereal moment. big ups to your friends!
where do you live, i would like to move there.
Southern New Mexico.
About 30 HiWay Minutes North of Juarez, Mexico.
There are a lot of folks doing this kind of stuff all over the Western US.
I know a Ski Shop in Taos that will do all kinds of custom work on Barter too... Got my boots custom fit and blown out there and I had to remove a virus from several PC's the guy had in exchange. Another guy traded him a nice Santa Cruz Blur for some skis/bindings.. It's out there...
If you ask, you might be surpised.
Mortgaged future. We're going to look like Greece anytime now.
Just buy the dip.
The Corporation of the USA was declared officially bankrupt and in receivership in 1933...everything since has been a pure illusion.
sheepdog, I was reading somewhere, I thought maybe here on ZH, where the writer was claiming that "We the People" in the constitution did not represent the people(you and me etc) but rather represented the principals(banksters financiers) of the Corporation of the USA.
Do you know where I may fine this writing?
Not sure, I've heard the same line though.
Try www.republicoftheunitedstates.org go to history tab.
thanks for the link
Thanks Sean
no one is cutting anything. the fact is no matter how fiscally conservative someone is, when they get into office they turn in to politicians and politicians like to spend.
In other news: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=25wviijhpQk
You dumb fucking cunts did it to yourselves, quit blaming you fucking government. Used your houses like visa cards, and maxed out every card you could get your hands on.
ASTONISHINGLY shallow...
Now stand out in the open for your lashing. NO -- don't try to hide behind me.
This comment is proof the traditional bell curve has shifted far left.
Citibank fraud case in India: FIR against CEO Vikram Pandit
Damn, Margaret Brennan looks hot in her red dress this morning. Wonder how she looks when she rolls out of bed in the morning.
The biggest obscenity is the tossing around of the word "default" to an absurd extent.
Default is defined as and limited to failure to pay interest payments on bills, notes or bonds. The interest liability of the US is still lower than tax revenue so There Is No Risk Of Default if the debt ceiling is not raised.
The only risk is that Federal salaries can't be paid so the employees must be dismissed. Or that contracts signed will have to exercise their cancellation clause (and fees) and be terminated. Or that Federal retirees are going to see pension benefit payment cuts.
That is not default. Only failure to pay interest is default. The rest is just prudent living within one's means.
So, to the next logical step, if the Republican controlled House is successful in not allowing the debt ceiling to be raised, then that would further decrease any likelihood of US default on our bonds--as you argue.
This would in turn support/rally the dollar, which would put more pressure on PMs and oil. Remember, there were several instances of high correlation with equities inversely correlated to the dollar last year. Therefore, a stronger dollar could put pressure on US equities as well. And, the dollar loses the "currency war" and we are prevented from monetizing our trillion dollar debt.
Funny. The debt has been defaulted upon for decades now.
Being able to go deeper and deeper into debt to match the payment on interests makes sure that your little scenario will not happen.
And the US interests on debt will not grow fast as in a credit based economy, lending money is a necessity and must happen somewhere.
What is fought for is maintaining the Ponzi scheme.
Bankruptcy is default where principle and interest is often not paid back. This is the type of default that will be used by many more individuals and businesses; in fact the rate of bankruptcies is climbing again since they changed the law a few years ago to make it more difficult to default on school loans.
http://www.visioncredit.org/bankruptcies-increasing/
A default is the failure to pay back a loan.[1] Default may occur if the debtor is either unwilling or unable to pay their debt. This can occur with all debt obligations including bonds, mortgages, loans, and promissory notes.
Wouldn't an insane catastrophe (or catastrophic insanity) be an improvement on the current situation? I say go for it!
“That’s right…let’s put a JPMorgan executive in as the Chief of Staff, Obama’s right hand man. Now tell me that Obama’s not completely owned by the banks.” That’s a salvo from Nathan Martin on today’s Economic Edge. And from all those 2011 projection projectors, this one is a must read:
Proof: Try this trial balloon:
That’s right…let’s put a JPMorgan executive in as the Chief of Staff, Obama’s right hand man. Now tell me that Obama’s not completely owned by the banks.
As far as being anti-business, the Administration is anti-business only in their socialist attempts to put down the discontent that would surely otherwise have bankers swinging from lamp posts should Emergency Unemployment benefits and food stamps for 42 million Americans not be preventing soup kitchen lines that would put the Great Depression to shame in their scale. What the people have yet to figure out is that he is very pro BANK; it is the puppet master banks who are sticking other corporations with their socialist agenda, that is how they keep the revolution down.
JPMorgan’s “bank’s head of corporate responsibility?” Ha, ha, now that’s a good JOKE. I’m sure that this position is all about covering up the ongoing shell games, hiding their accounting gimmicks, and convincing people that black is really white as they commit one fraud upon the people after another. Simultaneously, they are spending millions on slick advertising on the boob tube to numb people’s minds to the fact that JPMorgan is the world’s largest holder of derivatives and basically owns the government, a feat accomplished by simply printing money from nothing and using that money to buy and to twist the law. The same money is what gets officials elected at the national level; without it an adult politician cannot rise. This is why the only way left to fix it is for the people to rise up.
Note Daley’s transition from government to bank and then back to government. Our government and banking system have become one in the same. Don’t believe it still? Here comes the ‘cure’ for Foreclosuregate: (see Reuters article: Top Lenders Set for Foreclosure Settlement report:
http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE7031UY20110104?feedType=RSS&feedNa...)
And there you have it. The rule of law is first ignored, and then when exposed to the light of day it is bought and paid for when an ‘agreement’ is reached which will undoubtedly provide money to the complaining states and will ex post facto create a new law that makes their FRAUD legal just like it never happened. And the best part for them is that the money they are using to ‘agree’ comes from nothing whatsoever – no productive effort on their part. That’s because they STOLE the PEOPLE'S right to own their own money system.
http://economicedge.blogspot.com/
Also enjoy Nathan Martin. Isn't this just grand?? It goes on and on and on, until, how do we say - until it doesn't.
At least Obummer gets to eat a tasty dish of crow (must be on the menu weekly), not that he cares or anything, but it's still nice to have him continuously outed as the sham he is right?
Are there any adults left in the house? Any at all? Bueller?
This is what happens when you elect a Chicago machine politician. It figures we would have the son of Richard Daley (former "mayor for life" of Chicago) at JPM and now the O'corp "brain trust".
Punctuation_Check: Period goes inside the quotes.
This isn't a Chicago Political Machine, this is a 'Wall Street' Political Machine.
Government/Large Corporations are one in the same. Consider the Obama vs. Business spat from last couple of years nothing but a family feud. They've kissed and made up and will go back to raping and pillaging together.
It's average citizens and small businesses vs. the Government and Large Corporations. Support your local businesses. Especially the ones that prefer you pay in cash.
BINGO!!!!
HERE HERE!
outstanding, well sourced, spot on and extremely informative commentary, JR. this is the kind of response that keeps ZH hoppin'. and goes right to the heart of the issue in a most timely fashion. Ghoulsbe's assurance to Canadian elites during the election that Obama's apparent disavowal of NAFTA during the presidential campaign was simply "political maneuvering" was a rare admission of the intrinsic duplicity which infects this administration's public policy statements tailored for media/mass consumption. as so many bag men caring water for corporate and financial interests, Emmanuel, Orszag, Ghoulsbe et al., while paying lip service to the public awareness of the systemic corruption of the incestuous fascist government/business cabal, through their collective pedigrees of slavish servility to their corporate masters, prove over and over where their real allegiance lies as they seamlessly transition through the revolving door that opens from Wall Street investment houses and into the halls of government, military and intelligence agencies.
(14+ i) $T
everywhere i look i see fraud, corruption, corporate arrogance. our political system hijacked by a 2 party political system. no personal responsibility, etc. etc. etc.
a government that for nearly 50 years has rewarded the most irresponsible, while usurping any power that the states had left after the civil war.
i don't know how all of this continues, but the whole shebang just keeps humpity-humping along.
politicians are just a reflection of our society.
You know what, it’s “them.” You have to be definitive. The word “us” is misleading. It’s the takers, and they range from the bottom of the spectrum—oblivious and content or ignorant to what’s happening--to the top, always looking out for number one.
The pronoun “us” also includes the millions of producers, patriots, moral citizens and constant resisters to the gathering tyranny. And when overturn comes, it won’t come from the takers, it’ll be by those of ‘us” who take it back.
These “takers” have their sycophantic leaders in the White House, an office once occupied by none other than generals Andrew Jackson and Dwight David Eisenhower. From supreme allied commander of WWII forces to a baseball team owner and a community organizer, this is the descent of America that the takers have given the American people; “us” is the wrong word to describe these perpetrators. The takers took advantage of a free and open society to corrupt and commandeer our political system, using it for greed and power, installing its puppets to block dissent and the will of the people.
nice to read you again, JR. missed you. i am making some good hard questions about people i know. bad people. people that use other people not for their own financial gains, but for their own perverted personal greed accumulation gains.
poetic
I'll just point out that the entire problem is based upon the false premise that criminals have the desire (and ability) to provide goods and services under the guise of "government."
The gangs of NY, DC, London, Basel, et al., are by design, nothing but criminal syndicates. To give any of them any legitimacy, is to support their programs of plunder.
In other words, voting is by far and away the most dangerous activity one can engage in. Without public support (and bankster support to create public interest in them) the evil-doers of the world would have to kill with their own hands, and would quickly be recognized for the anti-social murderers they are.
Instead, they spew rhetoric while using our children to feed the war machine. Meanwhile the apathetic continue to vote, because they all know that they have to "Do something!"
Too bad that something isn't stopping their own perpetration of evil. The beast will live on as long as we continue to feed it. Only once we see the beast for what it is, will it die. How many millions more will it kill first, God only knows.
Fine lesson in logic here. 1) A candidate makes a promise, voter reads carefully, votes accordingly 2) candidate is elected, then promptly does the opposite of what he promised 3) voter feels responsible, but lacks enpowerment 4) once beaten down this way he decides politics is always a lesser of the two evils, he is responsible for soemthing over which he has no control. he rationalizes what he perceives to be his own personal failure 5) once he has descended to the same level of the politician he becomes an advocate of statist policy. he realizes change is wrong. he has a job, a home, change means he might lose those things. 6) political opponents attack the candidates policies, claiming he should change back into the thing he first promised, see 5) 7) the opposition helps the voter see the error of his ways, voting for the policy, and not the man. voter supports the candidate for reelection, even though he doesn't agree with him - see Bush approval ratings before and after 2004. 8) realizing there are no real qualifications for the job (other than being a good liar) and that promises should only be considered inversely to their premise, a completely non qualified candidate runs against him, and he destroys HER in the campaign, where he describes her as unqualified and disingenuous.
+1
If the US government stops spending -- including racking up these massive debts -- the US and global economies will implode within 3 months. This would all but guarantee warfare on a large scale, which also would rack up massive debts among the waring countries.
So debt for fraud or debt for blood, choose your poison and drink it.
There are no angels now. There are only demons and even the angels will happily set fire to the world.
I agree. Unfortunately most people, including politicians, don't understand the monetary system we have today. It needs to grow, or risk collapse.
But it can't grow like this forever, either. As you said: "choose your poison."
http://fiatcollapse.blogspot.com/2011/01/us-debt-ceiling-and-modern-monetary.html
Fractional reserve banking fraud, ftw?
I believe there is an old saying that states something along the lines of:
Do not build your house on a foundation of sand.
oh yes, now gime me another 50$ down in gold and im buying
With gold getting hammered today, wonder if this guy will entertain a lower bid?
http://cgi.ebay.com/2-Extremely-Rare-Gold-Coins-Signed-Salvador-Dali-/33...
Good thing he's offering Free shipping!
I find it perfectly plausible that he's sitting on a couple mill in gold while hawking 5 and 10 dollar dental supplies on E-Bay.
Gold & silver - I love JP Morgan. BTFD!!
The very first comment says it all in that its a pathetic 'circus'. No out of bounds, no consequences for anything and the longer it goes on....the smarter they think they are because nothing 'bad' ever happens, you just bail someone else out. The rest of us have consequences. Pathetic.
Politics is hilarious, especially on the campaign trail where they say one thing in one state, and the opposite in another, and nobody bats an eye because most of the public is so non-concern....hey did you see Dancing With The Stars? So amazing, wow..I ..er.. .what?
Wanna get some KFC?
Hilarious like getting Hemorrhagic Fever.
lmao
Why call it a ceiling? It is a fucking elevator to infinity . The pols won't do shit except have a few guys talk about how it should'nt be raised . The Fed will then cause volatility in the markets making sure that the debt ceiling gets raised . It is always the same , put on a show , create chaos , move agenda to where it was predecided but now with the backing of scared citizens who think the sky will fall if the agenda does not move forward . .
They set a ceiling to show resolve to trim spending, and the people rejoice.
They hit the ceiling and then raise it to show they are serious about keeping government working, and the people rejoice.
And the problem is .... what?
bootnote: Before anyone gets their undies in a bunch I'm not favoring this process, just pointing it out. It's called "illustration through the use of irony".
Oh my god silver is crashing! Everybody get out now before it is too late!!!
Yes, I'm quaking in my boots
http://www.youtube.com/user/BrotherJohnF?feature=mhum
Neither side gives a rip about the debt. They've all increased it. They just trade back and forth the pretence of concern about. Buy more silver now!
http://www.youtube.com/user/BrotherJohnF?feature=mhum
leadership failure? It's leadership success. They can spend all your money and the income of the next 2 generations, that can only mean that the borrowers have full faith in the ability of these leaders to extort the maximum amount of money from their tax slaves, including their offspring.
It's a vote of confidence from the borrowers.
The US is nothing more than concentric circles of absurdities expanding at warp speed - it's got to stop at some point. What shape it will begin to take when it starts to implode will be interesting to say the least.
Pre Revolution Financial Crisis http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/French_Revolution
Louis XVI ascended to the throne amidst a financial crisis; the nation was nearing bankruptcy and outlays outpaced income.[5] This was because of France’s financial obligations stemming from involvement in the Seven Years War and its participation in the American Revolutionary War.[6] In May 1776, finance minister Turgot was dismissed, after he failed to enact much needed reforms. The next year, Jacques Necker, a foreigner, was appointed Comptroller-General of Finance. He could not be made an official minister because he was a Protestant.[7] Necker realized that the country's tax system, which was perceived as quite regressive, subjected the lower classes to a heavy burden;[7] while numerous exemptions existed for the nobility and clergy.[8] He argued that the country could not be taxed higher, that tax exemptions for the nobility and clergy must be reduced, and proposed that borrowing more money would solve the country's fiscal shortages. Necker published a report to support this claim that underestimated the deficit by roughly 36 million livres, and proposed restricting the power of the parlements. This was not received well by the King's ministers and Necker, hoping to bolster his position, argued to be made a minister. The King refused, Necker was fired, and Charles Alexandre de Calonne was appointed to the Comptrollership.[7] Calonne initially spent liberally, but he quickly realized the critical financial situation and proposed a new tax code.[9] The proposal included a consistent land tax, which would include taxation of the nobility and clergy. Faced with opposition from the parlements, Calonne organised the summoning of the Assembly of Notables. But the Assembly failed to endorse Calonne's proposals and instead weakened his position through its criticism. In response, the King announced the calling of the Estates-General, for May 1789, the first time the body had been summoned since 1614. This was a signal that the Bourbon monarchy was in a weakened state and subject to the demands of its people.[10]
This post is retarded - a moronic rant that would be right at home on Hannity. Two points to make here:
1) Of course, it is a disaster that we keep increasing the debt. With any luck, Obama will call the tea partiers' bluff and actually get serious about long term structural reform. Maybe with something like Britain with a ratio of 2/3 spending cuts and 1/3 tax increase.
2) Consider for a moment that these statements are not contradictory.
how about completely cutting/gutting the fire sector instead and giving that cola to grama, with a side benefit of ending bailouts and wars. rhetorical. pie in the sky.
It's Obama's bluff that is being called -- in the elections, on spending America into bankruptcy, and over socialism in America.
Obamao talks like he's a Tea Partier now. Hilarious. There's nothing he won't say or do. Democrats broke the law not having a budget back on May 15 because they were afraid the deficit would embarrass them at the voting booth. That is what has brought us to this now.
But Jim Demint was serious. That guy doesn't play around.
They'll no doubt raise the limit, but Demint, et.al., will get cuts in exchange.
since he's so serious and all, boy, i'm sort of scared of de mint now....he don't mess around....he's about as serious as nuky thompson.
Reps will eventually vote to raise the debt ceiling as that is a known fact armageddon. They'll exact a high price for it.
What if REPS attach the Obamacare repeal to the debt ceiling raise?
What would Obama do then?
We are getting EXACTLY what we earned and DESERVE. Nothing More, Nothing Less.
Keep on tolerating it... You will only get more of what you willingly accept.
That accpetance is a signal to feed you more of the same because you LIKE IT or are at leaset willing to TOLERATE IT.
Tolerate IS what you do when a 3 yr old child is having a fit in a car seat... Tolerate IS NOT what you do when the govenment fucks your asshole raw with debt upon debt that finances their high flying fantasies of being big time Politicians.
Debt ceilings don't matter
I doubt that the change in Congress will do much more than perhaps delay the inevitable a bit. I don't hear any politicans (Tea Party or not) calling for any changes that would really fix the problem. Such as a balanced budget amendment or line item veto power for the president.
Talk is cheap. We will probably see a few token spending cuts, but not much more.
Problem is Ben, balancing the budget doesn't do shit. We're a couple of decades too late for our come to Jesus moment. It's like being on some kind of fucked up life support machine that's overheating. If we keep it going it blows up and we die. If we unplug it, it blows up and we die. Right now we're just laying in that hospital bed, pushing the morphine drip and trying to forget that we're about to die.
Have a good day.
How's that gold today Col?
Still damn near 600 up from where I bought the small amount of it that I have. I'm no gold bug in the truest sense. I just hate Fucking Trolls.
coop, fooking brilliant lmao
yes, very nice. only the death and dying analogies work anymore.
/sarcasm touche lmao
http://long-island.newsday.com/going-out/lol-1.1887675/a-snooki-a-booki-...
please kill me now
In the end, the average schmuck will happily embrace an overt strongman/fascist leader and severely curtailed liberties as long as they get to keep their Television and their weekly trip to Walmart.
Gold. Gold will be CRUSHED.
Real estate price deflation will surely not end by FED dictate being 20% above 100 year trend. Wage price inflation cannot arise with 19% underemployment and cheap labor overseas. Asset price inflation is as much, if not more, a function of Chinese growth (and their fear of availability) than of inflationary hedging. The FED is worried about US price deflation and they should be but they won't stop it because the USA is in serious, and perhaps irrevocable, competitive decline rooted in expansionary government policy.
I junked you because you had to take a perfectly logical and intelligent post and turn it into a Johnny Bravo Troll-Ass OT piece of shit with your Gold will be crushed BS.
Douche
You're just mad cause you're getting your ass plumbed with unpolished gold bars, sideways. Down $41 I believe?
Today? Or yoy? Or 10 yr? Funny that Trolls like to ignore 30% (or 90%) gains, but get a 2-3% correction and they OOZE from the cracks in the wall. What metals do day to day doesn't worry me too much. I have only a very small position in gold, and a long way to go before I'm worried. Gold is a hedge. You are still a Fucking Troll.
Col, I told you that this selloff was at hand yesterday afternoon. Not an hour ago and not a decade ago.
Yes, yes. We've heard that all before. Even when gold was at $600. When the US budget is balanced and the national debt is reduced to a reasonable level, perhaps I *might* consider selling some of my PM's. But I think hell will freeze over long before that happens.
By the way, it is perfectly possible to have high inflation and high unemployment at the same time. It happened in the 70's and was called "stagflation".
"By the way, it is perfectly possible to have high inflation and high unemployment at the same time. It happened in the 70's and was called "stagflation"."
And how did gold do in 1980?
If you were already long in '79 and still long in 80', gold did fine. If you were smart enough to take some profits Q4 of 79 or Q1 of 80, then you gold was pretty fucking hot.
If you were one of the unfortunates who got stuck, then you made a bad call.
If you really want to compare '80 to today, I suggest you spend some time staring at a few charts, and perhaps learn to calculate inflation.
What do they teach you in Troll School these days anyway?
Gold started out at $32 in 1970 and corrected to around $400 in 1980. More than 10X in a decade. In the same decade the DOW basically did nothing.
Of course, in 1980 we had Volker. Now we have Bernanke. And in 1980 the national debt/GDP ratio was much lower than now and the deficit was much smaller. Plus we had a new generation of baby boomers just entering the workforce. Now they are in their peak earning years and just about to retire. If there was ever a time when the US government should be running a surplus, it is now. But instead we are running record deficits. Soon the boomers will retire. The government will be hit with a double whammy as they stop paying income taxes *and* start drawing Social Security and Medicare benefits.
Yup, I don't expect to be selling my PM's anytime soon.
Don't try to pull that bullshit. You don't get to troll with your vaguaries, then claim analyst kudos because you won a coin toss. You made a half ass comment about "overbot". Gold is still up over the period you've been here calling a top. If you wanted to be helpful you could tell me to "buy the dip" too. If you think you are any kind of the real deal, then lets get some specifics and you can go on the record. Where is the support? How about three months? Six? 2011?
Be a good little Troll and do us a favor: Make your predictions, and then like the rest of your annoying ilk, promise to leave when you are wrong.
I haven't called a "top". I'm calling for blood though and I've only been calling for it since Fri Dec 31, 2010 although I did sell almost all my gold and silver coins on Dec 7 at a local coin shop at 9am. Coins are a terrible investment-too much "vig", too little "real" market (Almost all my coins. Some are out of state and not worth a plane trip and a hotel and my x-wife's interference. Also I still own a few BB miners in a small way. You see getting out of this PM stuff is like getting rid of a cold)
Quoted Loosely: "I sold all my coins on Dec. 7 because they are a terrible investment."
Unless you either bought a line of goods about premiums from Goldline, or bought them on Dec. 6th, you made out like a bandit. Therefore your repeated claims about them being a bad investment are disingenous.
this time next year? silver $60 Bitchezzzz!
Funny thing is, for a Troll old Goldfinger is pretty smart to have sold on Dec. 7th:
http://www.kitco.com/scripts/hist_charts/monthly_graphs.plx
http://www.kitco.com/scripts/hist_charts/monthly_graphs.plx
OR,,,, a complete Fucking Douchebag Troll Fucking Lying Ass Piece of Shit who held an assload of gold and silver?? then managed to decide he hated it?? and sold everything in the highest day of the year??? Whatever.
God I hate Trolls.
dont panic coop buy the fucking dip man i know you aint panickin, silver been doing this every couple days now, been moving up a dollar ruffly every 48hrs for the past 10 days or so fer crissake, keep yer power dry my brotha. i read what douchebags say, but i also look at the action ;) spidey sense.
He's just petting your goat Colonel.
"Gold. Gold will be CRUSHED."
Um, when exactly? Define "CRUSHED" please too.
Have a glance at a 10 year chart and get back to me. This may help.
"Have a glance at a 10 year chart and get back to me"
Back to you: You can't invest in the past tense.
BTW Gold is unchanged vs, mid October.
"When" How's today for a start. There will be blood