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Why Are The Irish Not Rioting And Insulting The Germans Yet?
At least that is the question posed by Ambrose Evans-Pritchard in his column today, where he accurately points out that while a bankrupt Greece can get away with borrowing at 5% courtesy of the IMF bailout package, as of today Ireland's 10 year rate is 5.48%. Ambrose attributes this to the Greeks savvy knack of scaring the shit out of Europe by "dilly-dallying on the first set of austerity measures, and – not to be
too diplomatic about it – by insulting the Germans with demands for war
reparations" and also being on the verge of destroying its own country, by Molotov Cocktailing its own parliament, if its doesn't get its way. And the real kicker: as a member of the IMF, and a lender to its various soon to be multi-quadrillion last ditch rescue facilities, Ireland, whose borrowing cost is higher, is subsidizing the Greek interest and, therefore, way of life. Nuts you say? Ambrose agrees: " It has moral hazard written all over it, and shows what happens once a dysfunctional system twists itself into ever greater knots rather confronting the core issue." But such is life in the Keynesian endspiel, where the worst housing data ever recorded is sufficient for a green close: bizarro is now mainstream.
More on A.E.P.'s utter confusion at Europe neverending insanity.
Ireland must now pay more than Greece to borrow.
Dublin has played by the book. It has taken pre-emptive steps to please the markets and the EU. It has done an IMF job without the IMF. Indeed, is has gone further than the IMF would have dared to go.
It has imposed draconian austerity measures. The solidarity of the country has been remarkable. There have no riots, and no terrorist threats.
Yet as of today it is paying 5.48pc to borrow for ten years, or near 8pc in real terms once deflation is factored in. This is crippling and puts the country on an unsustainable debt trajectory if it lasts for long.
Yet Greece is able to borrow from the EU at 5pc and from the IMF at a staggered rate far below that (still too high for the policy to work, but that is another matter). These were the terms of the €110bn joint bail-out.
To add insult to injury Ireland is having SUBSIDIZE Greece to meet its share of the rescue fund.
I am sure you can all see the absurdity of this. It has moral hazard written all over it, and shows what happens once a dysfunctional system twists itself into ever greater knots rather confronting the core issue.
Ambrose summarizes as follows: "If I were Irish – (and I suppose in a sense I am: Sir John Parnell was
my great, great, great grandfather) – I would be a little annoyed." Of course, Americans, who are the biggest contributor to the IMF are logically the biggest providers of backstop capital to Greece, and all the other soon the be semi-defaulted in a Schrodinger sense, European countries. But at least we have 10 Year spreads that have never been so low... And will persist at current and tighter levels until the bond bubble finally blows up and the endspiel truly ends.
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Excellent point!
I'm Greek & I agree w/AEP's points. But let's be honest. The Irish aren't rioting, cause they're too busy drinking. ;)
Only jackasses play by the book :)
It's like those morons standing in the back of the line to buy a ticket. There are 5 tickets and there are 50 men in front of you.
You could say: I'll do this by the book, and maybe 46 people forget their wallet so I might get a ticket.
ORRRrrrr...
You cut the line with some lame ass excuse and buy all 5 tickets and sell the other 4 tickets at 10X the price.
(and with the profits, you don't just buy "the book", you buy the library)
PS: The Irish don't riot...
THEY BOMB THE PLACE TO THE GROUND!!!
DEATH AND DESTRUCTION!!! TA TA TAAAAaa!
Drinking and planning don't mix. Too many ears at the pub. Remember the Eksund?
Riot, bitchez!
Really? If riots spread in Europe, it will surely spread here. How about we don't riot and just vote these fucks out of government who continue print fiat money and back stop other governments with our gold. How about that?
Seriously, how were riots ever productive for anyone?
Vote the fucks out how exactly? Where or when did the members of the fed ever stand for regional or national general election?
You are quite right to note that riots are only productive at destroying private property and causing injury to passer by.
Vote out congress, senate and the executive branch... Well, except for Ron Paul who advocates auditing the fed and even shutting them down.
Wasn't the American or French revolutions a form of rioting against those in power? How about the Russian Revolution? You underestimate the power of a well formed riot moving into an outright rebellion. I don't think you can have one without the other.
The analogy with software development ia applicable here as with other threads I see on ZH. Any code base, no matter how well designed in the beginning, eventually has to be completely destroyed and redesigned from scratch. There ALLWAYS comes a point where the cost of the next incremental change outweighs the cost of annilation followed by a new beginning.
I believe this to be a law of the Universe.
I think its called entropy.
There are cures for entropy. No cure for this.
There is no cure for stupidity. When are you fucktards going to get a clue? Voting them out for the other party wont change a damn thing, voting for the 3rd party candidate (usually) wont change a damn thing. Until you can get enough people together to elect someone CNN has never heard of, he will be bought off before the election. He will lie his ass off to you and do exactly as he is told. The definition of political power since the latter 20th century: achieving enough seniority to get the PTB to allow you to throw some pork to your constituents.
And how would electing a new brand of tools change anything? I dont care who is in the government - I do care about government policies and those policies are set by the stakeholders: The stakeholders are not up for election!
All the electorate gets to decide is whether to put a Red or a Green cherry on top of the crap cake, once every four years! The policies will not change in any material way, because they cannot be changed by a "responsible" government, that needs Money, Media access, Cozy consluttancy jobs for Later, e.t.c. - unless the stakeholders decide that it is in their best interest to sponsor change.
That they will do when "civil unrest" has affected profits enough to hurt their household budgets.
PS: Just look at Obummah's actual achievements: Bush plus 10% in every way!
An excellent point. Since the bailouts we have seen that holding a gun to your head and threatening to pull the trigger is the only way to get ahead in world of moral hazard.
Different culture, different styles.
A Greek malcontent is a rioter. An Irish malcontent is a militant.
Didn't they used to be terrorists? And not so very long ago. I doubt they've forgotten the skill set.
You're thinking tourists.
Irish won't riot unless they run out of booze.
(obligatory)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pDwlGbEcJ6Y&feature=search
Remember remember the fifth of November!
"But such is life in the Keynesian endspiel, where the worst housing data ever recorded is sufficient for a green close: bizarro is now mainstream."
Nuff said.
Green close - in honor of the Irish.
Well Turd "Nuff said." ??? Watched the news late night on RTL4 (dutch broadcaster) and was lmoa when I saw the DOW just above 10k. Did not expect anything else but still!? The commentary about the bad data of the last days was hillarious. CNBC could not have done better.
OT: watching RTLZ / 4 for years now specialy when Willem Middelkoop did share his very own and non mainstream views. Now we have Mathijs Bouman and we have our own dutch CNBC and slogan "all is well, sleep tight".
EOT.
My point is that I am flabbergasted people are just sitting and waiting and let them self brainwash even now when it all comes slowly to the surface.
Its time for a change if not anarchie.
I have a feeling the Irish will come out up front in the long run. The really long run...but win they will.
They do seem like they have good common sense that should serve them well in the long run. Hurling nothwithstanding.
The only hurling that I saw in Ireland was after all the 16 year olds went out to celebrate their exams. Kept me awake all night with their hurling.
No they won't. Ireland is just as bankrupt as Greece, but must still send monthly alimony checks to Greece. Ireland can't ever make that up: Those are more sunk losses, each month.
In the *very* long run, as you assert, yes, Ireland has a work ethic, and can attempt to rebuild its economy. However, that won't matter until after it stops sending alimony checks to its ex-wife Greece.
I tend to agree.
Iceland did the *right* thing.
The greeks and irish are merely taking different routes to serfdom.
I just wanted to make a comment here. I think the Irish are some serious folks, whereas, the Greeks are more carefree and happy-go-lucky. I'd rather be on the streets of Greece during a riot than an Irish street when they have absolutely had enough. The Irish don't mess around when the time comes. My heritage is Irish and I've seen that seething, cool anger erupt. I'm just putting out anecdotal information.
A great deal of the Irish debt problem is the funding needs of the SPE that they created to buy up the toxic debt of their banks. So Ireland is playing the same disastrous extend and pretend game that everyone else is and hiding it from the suffering populace in the same efficient way that all the other crooks are doing. If the Irish populace were to ever figure out that a large part of the austerity they are suffering is due to the need to "rescue" their banks, there will be riots in the streets with or without whiskey.
Why is it that there is not a plus check box for good posts like this rather than just "junk"?
Here at ZH, all commenters are considered very intelligent, therefore their comments are always considered non-junk, until they aren't.
I thought they were there so we could alert the administrators to people selling jewellery, etc., not as a drive-by 'I call BS' option...
I thinky europe is a bigger tinderbox than the middle east.
They are tied together by nothing except the "euro". How long will this last with the euro only benefiting Germany's economic interest... ?
The conflict opened with the German invasion of Belgium, Luxembourg and France; the Austro-Hungarian invasion of Serbia and a Russian attack against Germany. After the German march on Paris was brought to a halt, the Western Front settled into a static battle of attrition with a trench line that changed little until 1917. In the East, the Russian army successfully fought against the Austro-Hungarian forces but was forced back by the German army. Additional fronts opened after the Ottoman Empire joined the war in 1914, Italy and Bulgaria in 1915 and Romania in 1916. The Russian Empire collapsed in 1917, and Russia left the war after the October Revolution later that year. After a 1918 German offensive along the western front, United States forces entered the trenches and the allies drove back the German armies in a series of successful offensives. Germany agreed to a cease fire on Armistice Day, November 11, 1918.
By the war's end, four major imperial powers—the German, Russian, Austro-Hungarian and Ottoman Empires—had been militarily and politically defeated. The last two ceased to exist.[8] The revolutionized Soviet Union emerged from the Russian Empire, while the map of central Europe was completely redrawn into numerous smaller states.[9]
Agreed. Europe has long history of violence and war. Seriously, why are my american tax dollars going to support pukes in Greece and Ireland or anywhere else?
Because the mu-minds (mu = the permittivity of space in a vacuum) around you keep voting the same crooks into political office, hoping that this time it will be different!
The EU/IMF has demonstrated that they will stand behind Greek debt if rates get too high. So far this hasn't happened with Ireland so it's rates are higher even though they are in somewhat better economic shape. The bottom line is the market is perceiving Greek debt as having an implicit or explicit put attached to it.
Fighting Irish Bitchez
Globalization sucks.
It must be destroyed.
Globailization doesn't suck. Interefering,intervening, distorting and using false trade bodies and created international courts of trade which are imbalanced suck. The elites at the top of the pyramid expoiting the poor and destroying American jobs suck.
Each nation finding their comparative advantage is awesome. China trying to use "Slave labor" a their comparative advantage is both fleeting and immoral. Those in our Corp. Ponz relying upon that savings are seeing what happens when you lose the domestic consumer.
Reversion to means is inevitable and that is what we are seeing now.
What happens when the Chinese cannot be used as slave labor?
I see not difference between slave wages and unpaid slavery.
Globalization is great if free markets are permitted to flex their muscle without protectionsm and political cover.
Sorry ... but you're view has never been a reality.. not in the whole of human history, and that's one hell of a long time-line. Globalization... sucks!
What's fundamentally different about Chinese soil and Chinese workers relative to American ones?
There is no difference, really. Two arms, two legs, one head.
The difference is in the governing system. The US penalizes any company that tries to do something in the physical world. We allow relative freedom of thought and speech - unlike China.
Really, the US comparative advantage would be overwhelming with free markets and most importantly free currencies. If you really want an overpowering competitive advantage, using a non-inflationary currency and protecting property rights is the way to go about it.
The only real life accomplishments of any state or civilization has been to produce abundance and protection for a nation or empire. There can never be a balanced globalization due to various differences in peoples and natural resources to attemt otherwise is to cause un natural imbalances. This is what global banking has done.
Segestan is right: globalization sucks big time.
40 years ago (and earlier) we had essentially no trade with China. U.S. factories made almost everything that we needed. U.S. scientists and engineers churned out new technology at an amazing rate. The population of the world was half what it is now. Mexicans stayed on their side of the border. Banks were closed on Wednesday and most businesses were closed at night and on weekends. And yet the typical American household needed only one wage earner!
So what was it that fucked up the world? Globalization.
Big IF in that statement there.
Ireland went through several decades of protectionism and autarky, from roughly the early '30s to the early '60s. The 1950s in Ireland made the current recession look like a non-stop beer party. The country was still sodden with tuberculosis. Ireland is a really bad poster child for protectionism.
Those Bavarians are just too damn competitive..........
www.youtube.com/watch?v=73YrUqjo7t8
Ireland will have to enter the special beer olympics soon.
Wait till Obama bails out California, Illinois, Mass., Ohio and any other good Democrat state so all the rest of us can pay for their excesses (like a $528M school).
I can't wait! The first state to get a bailout will trigger a chain reaction of awesome! Everyone will instantly have their hands out, and those that don't get their "share" will get angry and I expect might even threaten to hold back taxes till they get paid. And that would lead us to Civil War 2.
The totalitarian socialists will hand over the money to the states with budget requirements. Like not laying off union workers that fund Democrats. So they will never get solvent as long as the big Ponzi scheme keeps running. Socialist Utopia.
Hate to burst your bubble, but these state bailouts are already happening - look at the last two "jobs" bills.
Both amount to billions in Fed (solvent state & citizen) money propping-up insolvent state and municipal budgets, specifically public safety & education budgets (read: public union salaries and pensions).
Expect more of these "jobs" bills to be passed and implemented, effectively funnelling taxpayer money directly to broke states and underfunded public employee pension programs.
Where are the riots? Where's the civil war? The Congress, Feds & WH are already taking solvent states & citizens for a ride, no?
Vaj,
" (like a $528M school)."
Now, for all to see.....
If there were ever a question, in anyone's mind that Kalifornians are (Pols, national, and local), are totally frigging insane, this should remove ALL doubts.
Thousands, upon thousands of furloughed workers,a bankrupt state, fiscally, and morally, and these IDIOTS build a 529 Million dollar school.
Newsflash, these people are into smoking something a hell of a lot more mind altering that Grass,
My sincere condolences to all here, that HAVE to live in the insane asylum.
The Proposed fence, needs to be moved a LOT further inland.
Since California pays the Federal Government $1.48 in tax revenue out for every $1 in benefit received, your argument is flawed. California is the 43rd State in order of per capita tax dollars received.
If you are from Virginia, admittedly an assumption from your name, your state is receiving $1 in benefit for every .78 cents of tax that you pay. Virginia is the 10th highest per capita recipient of Federal tax dollars.
California is paying your freight, not the other way around.
Source: http://www.taxfoundation.org/research/show/22685.html
How does California pay for anything when it's broke?
False, the amounts commonly quoted for money rebated to states is ex Medicare and all sorts of goodies. Quoting the dollar back for $1.48 paid is pure fiction. When KPMG gives me an audited figure, I'll believe that BS. Until then FNMA and FRE aren't bankrupt and Obama has created or saved five billion jobs.
Another propaganda article from a British newspaper.
Ambrose forgot to mention that the Greek income has decreased by 35% because of Papandreou's smart economic policy.
The private sector is about to be terminated because of Socialist measures and not by Irish economy.
The problem in Greece is that an evil Gvnt is so incompetent and they destroy Greeks in favor of an establisment of a Global Government as Papandreou declares.
Everyone knows that Papandreou spends a lot of money to whoever writes good propaganda.
Propaganda ? The article highlights an illogical truth about current differences between Ireland and Greece, both of whom are in deep trouble. Where is there propaganda from the UK ?
If you're going to post, then be careful who you insult. Otherwise people will think that you're just an idiot.
The lack of reason is present both in your comment and ambroses article.
Greece borrows money from IMF at 5%, not from the market as Ireland does.
If Greece wanted to borrow from the markets due to the bright and wise policy of Papandreou, who performed an insulting tour before IMF calling, the yield would be 11%.
Instead of that we can see a very well performed cult of personality for Papandreou that reminds us the Socialistic culture only that today that kind of portraits are very well paid. Everything has a price.
They need to Iceland up and thumb their noses at the bastids.
People here do not seem to understand the cultural (Admittedly primitive yes) and environmental destruction of the Irish nation.
We have been exposed to globalisation for 100s of years but this final onslaught of free moving capital and the labour that follows it as it travels around the world and creates titanic malinvestment and ultimate misery has destroyed the very soul of this flawed but once great little country.
The landscape is now blighted with absurd houses and half empty motorways to nowhere while the minds of the young are empty of valour and duty.
There has been something missing in the core of this island for a very long time now and its not coming back.
Look to a more cohesive society such as Iceland to fight back but here there is nothing but stupidity and despair.
Its over.
Yes, I enjoyed The Quiet Man too.
"Why would a man want to go to Inisfree?"
Awesome.
My favorite line from the Quiet Man, "Now here's a fine stick sir to beat the lovely lady"
Yep, spoken like a proper bitter pisshead.
It's over temporarily. Compared to the great tragedies of history we have fuck all to bitch about.
They can always immigrate to America
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sRMrA8MTXpA
The short answer is weather. This is why the French riot and the English don't plus I think the Irish knew the gig was up when Dublin surpassed London as the most expensive place to live in the UK
tah
I am afraid your model of rioting dynamics has a slight flaw - Iceland , although their riots seemed more like civilised protests.
Civilized, yes, and strangely effective. Iceland told their criminal creditors to go fuck themselves. Well done.
Greece, for all of their true riot street cred, are getting bent over the chair.
Let's be grateful that sovereignty is not determined exclusively by rioting skills and degrees of anarchy... but perhaps it should be? Wait, I've confused myself... nevermind.
Weather?,
I thought it was because the French were drunk most of the time, and the Brit's were subjects for so long, due to the caste system it would be unfathomable for them to get out of Sorts.
The english are far more likely to get drunk enough to riot; french tend to drink in moderation by comparison.
The caste system exists in both places but the English place a much stronger emphasis on it in their upbringing
Dublin is the most expensive place to live in the UK? Wait..what?
Call it circa 2006. It did not last long as banker bonuses showed up in the city and drove inner London thru the roof
Dublin also known as The Pale has been under Norman control since the middle ages - they are the local administrative district for the various papacies that run this little place - essentially its a British town with fine Georgian buildings and low lying administrative types.
"Essentially its a British town with fine Georgian buildings..." and Cork isn't? Ireland never had it's own culture other than that created by a bunch of unemployed drunks. Once the country developed a work ethic and gave up the drink most of the drunken games that passed for culture disappeared. Culture is irrelevant, and the people who complain most about losing our culture are the people who suck the most out of society ie the civil servants.
By the unemployed drunks creating the tawdry culture i am assuming you mean the likes of C.S Lewis, Jonathan Swift, W.B. Yeats, Bram Stoker, Oscar Wilde, James joyce, Seamus Heany, Samuel Beckett, George Berkeley, Cecil Day Lewis, Bernard Shaw, Patrick Kavanagh etc etc? If these are the unemployed drunks, the guys that are on the wagon must be cut from a fine cloth. I would rather gladly drink myself to death in the company of such men, than sit sober and listen to the likes of you, whinging about civil servants, sucking stuff.
Murchadh is essentially correct - Irish nationalism is a strange fusion of a invented Anglo-Irish mysticism and Catholic foot soldiers who were propagandized by Roman education systems that had their own agenda.
And yes Cork has never recovered from the loss of a Anglo-Irish business class as they have been almost completly replaced by a certain very limited conservative merchant class.
You're late for your C of I vestry meeting, Dork.
Yes horseman, can't keep those little old dears waiting.
Bank of Ireland needs my skills in the propoganda department to distance themselves from those catholic cretins in AIB.
Ha I think you're confusing the romanticised Ireland of the above individuals with the reality. A p!ss poor inward looking peasant theocracy that was intolerant of change and foreign influence up until the 1990s. Also I doubt the above guys would be interested in drinking with a muppet like you. Except perhaps Oscar Wilde but that's because of your handle like ears.
You are a bitter aul soul Murchadh - the problem is the vast majority of the peasant stock have been propagandised by a different aristocracy that promoted a liberal fantasy land where we all hold hands and embrace a world where we do not fear self doubt - this reached its crescendo in the 90s and noughties with predictable results.
While before scepticism of foreign power and acceptance of corporate Roman power was the norm now that situation seems reversed but the vassal / lord dynamic remains and will perhaps remain.
Well, it all depends on what you want to view as culture. If you want to see a countries’ daily grind and social problems as representative of its culture...then i think you actually may be thinking like one of those civil servants, maybe even worse. Does culture become irelevant because we owe the world some money? Philistine
Forgive me for name dropping like that above, but you were inferring some quite derogatory things about Irelands past cultures, waking up with a hangover from hell, from all its so called boozing with nothing to show but empty pockets and peasantry; if we had of been having this discussion face to face i would have put you over my knee and slapped the arse off you. Who the fuck are you, some depressed and bitter homophobic nutbag wallowing in the shame of our peasantry, get a grip you dredful corpse. Every house has its problems, if ours is a knack for the odd romantic notion and a drink then we have nothing to fear, do we? Anyhow, when you love something, you can forgive it it's flaws. Chin up.
I think the level of theocracy in Ireland is much like many other countries all over the world, many would have a shot at defining themselves as secular but it just doesn’t wash. God is a human need that expresses itself on an individual and personal basis, therefore it bleeds into politics at all levels and the effort to rid politics of it is certainly not an Irish problem . Religion helps a lot of people get by in life, it could be worse. For the record, religion had no part in the housing bubble.
Ps, who could blame us for being inward looking after what the country went through. We had to be careful, so go easy on your ancestors.
Quite simple. Propaganda is filtered in to keep a lid on exposure.
Treaty of Lisbon
http://www.consilium.europa.eu/showPage.aspx?id=1296&lang=en
Ireland Department of Foreign Affairs
http://www.dfa.ie/home/index.aspx?id=34239
Highest Default Probabilities
http://www.cmavision.com/market-data/
Ireland and the IMF
http://www.imf.org/external/country/irl/index.htm
Transcript of a Conference Call on Ireland - June 24, 2009
http://www.imf.org/external/np/tr/2009/tr062409.htm
These poor fucks creating Global policies are in for a surprise when J6P finds out. Slowly bleeding the host is the Modus Operandi by a selected few.
(First, note that we're talking about the Republic of Ireland here. Northern Ireland is a magical little place of its own, as everyone knows.)
One reason for the calm in Ireland is that while the recession has been savage, the austerity hasn't actually been all that bad yet. Income taxes are up, but they started from fairly low. Unemployment benefits are still generous by most standards. There's a public-sector recruitment freeze, but so far little pain has been inflicted on public sector workers. They threatened to strike anyhow, so the government has promised to protect their jobs, pay and benefits until 2014 in exchange for promises of cooperation on structural reform! The past year or so has sucked if you're a public mental patient, but who worries about marginal groups like these? The easy ride so far is partly because Ireland, unlike Greece, started the GFC with low public debt and a budget surplus.
Yeah Northern Ireland is a magical little place...with a magical little border, put there by another magical little country.
Books for children bedtime reading always talk about rainbows, pots of gold and leprechauns.
Go figure. The comedy of adults who still believe in fantasy. Ever ponder why fantasy football market was created? LOL
I've heard it suggested we shouldn't be Homo sapiens, but Pan narrans: the storytelling ape.
M.B. Drapier
You are correct in your analysis of the fiscal / tax / benefit side of things.
But there is many ways to skin a cat - tax can be extracted via mortgages but just because it does not go directly to the state does not make it any less of a tax.
We are now dealing with a truly hybrised state/bank system - we have a much higher private debt then Greece and that debt appears to be in the main external and paid for via much higher then base rate mortgages and low yielding deposit accounts.
The yearly interest debt paid to external holders of bank paper has not been stated publicly and my suspicion is that it is a vast quanity of money and it is the primary mechanism for the contraction of GNP now that credit creation has come to a almost complete stop.
im glad we peaked for no good reason today since i am unloading the last bits of stock in my 401k and it settles at the end of day price.... I'll ride the next round mostly in cash and some chips still on the bonds bubble
There are 999 posts on the hyperinflation post. Who will be 1,000?
is there a prize?
ZH thong (i think they are still long from last x-mas season).
http://www.cafepress.ca/zerohedge.419236014
Frankly, I can't imagine the Irish rioting over rates...lack of beer or increase in beer prices..maybe...certainly bad calls during football games...but bond rates?...no the Irish save their anger for something other than corrupt manipulated bank rates....those folks will get their just rewards...though I do feel sorry for anyone who does really piss them off....and I cannot wait to see my fine Irish friends in November...I love em!
The difference is that Ireland isn't composed of 50% government workers.
Correct!
Neither Greece's Gvnt workers are so high.
You lie!
If any of yez wanted to know what the Irish Government via NAMA is propping up with 90 billion euros of current and future generations tax revenue(and rising) here is a prime example:
http://www.daft.ie/searchsale.daft?id=369290
Value or what?
That's about $285,000 to ye there now!
(best Oirish accent I could muster)
The Iriish, like the Germans, are a meat and potatoes people. Deep down they know what wnet wrong. Instead of cursing the Germans, they need to string up their politicians.
The Slovaks just recently told the Greeks and the EU to f*ck off with their demands for "solidarity" to the tune of €800 million. At least there is one member of the EU who listens to what their citizenry has to say. Here in Germany, the politicians don´t give more than lip service to what the people think, and so, the EU or bust politicians bust out the public checkbook and sign away yet another chunk of financial future from the nation´s kindergarteners.
I wonder what Britain will do. They have so many troubles, greater than Greeks.
For the moment they only try to sabotage Greece.
why are the irish not rioting? no idea but there´s obviously still enough booze over there. But why are they not insulting S&P? S&Ps explanation for downgrading Ireland was that their national net debt would be like 113% of the gdp in 2012 wich would be like 1,5 times of the average of the rest of the EU, well that´s fair enough for me but according to the telegraph when you include pensions and social security payments the national net debt of Great Britain is like 350% of the gdp. Can someone enlighten an idiot like me how the UK managed to get AAA? Is this the new normal? Beware my opinion might be somewhat biased i´m german and excuse my lousy english
1. November 5th is a British thing. Look it up.
2. The REPUBLIC of Ireland is not part of the UK. Dublin is the capital of the Republic. Northern Ireland IS part of the UK. The Irish got pissed off enough to rebel, gain independance and start a civil war. Maybe when the Irish get pissed off enough they will rebel against the bank bail outs. See Reggie Middlleton for just how upside down the Irish banks are. Maybe if they see other countries getting away with it they will say fuck it we ain't paying.
3. Ireland falls low on the list of alcohol consumption. People drink socially there for the most part. In other words they go to the pub to socialise and leave their drinking there. It's too damn expensive to turn it into a real hobby.
4. 'Cos the Brits take a special pride in fucking over their lower and middle class and they can print their way out of debt. Their lower and middle class have been brainwashed since birth that it's normal to support the aristocracy. So they get to keep their AAA rating.
5. The Irish remember when austerity was normal and enough people there jumped on the property band wagon early enough to get money and buy a villa in France, Spain etc etc. Keep in mind the property craziness started there a long time ago and accelerated a lot quicker than here.
Also, the Irish are more well read fiancially than their American counterparts and are fully aware of where the money is going. They have also been told straight up that unless there is pain no one will lend money and there will be no economy. Hence the compliance for the moment. However, it's easier to rebel and shoot at a guy in a uniform with a foreign accent than start beating up random bankers in suits. So the rep the Irish have as fighters and rebels is last century.
The Irish are good emigrants and will leave for greener pastures if necessary. It doesn't scare them to pick up sticks and leave their country. So most Irish people have a lot of options.
Never been to Greece but have a few Greek friends and they are a bad tempered, won't take anyones shit bunch. They love to argue. Apparently they like to riot as well.
I won't pick on a certain poster above. Sorry I lied.
"One reason for the calm in Ireland is that while the recession has been savage, the austerity hasn't actually been all that bad yet. Income taxes are up, but they started from fairly low. Unemployment benefits are still generous by most standards."
Well lad, some folks are paid to work in the background. If someone is not filling the coffers to make the bunny appear from the hat, trouble will brew. Cutting off monies to support your movement & your well on your way to political suicide. That's how this global business works. Its all plain & simple. The small time thieves are working for someone who promises great dreams of wealth in exchange for change and hope. If you fail your mission as a dreamer, larceny will haunt you
Just ask Sinn Fein
The elites are deathly afraid. The next round of financial crisis TV blips will not go as well.
CFR is hatching another plan to scare the shit out of everyone. It will fail miserably.
EBN - Comply
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-w67DUjx7q0
Grab your popcorn for entertainment
Hello Atomizer. Sorry I missed your comment until now. I'd like to reply but I'm not sure what your point is. You seem to be under the impression that I'm carrying water for the Irish government or the Irish banks or EU institutions, but the truth is nearer the opposite.
AEP once again can't tell the forest from the trees. (It's a very common flaw in economists...evidenced by how many have missed and continue to miss on the reality of the situation across the world)
It's the broken system pointing through faulty market processes and the data points they produce that leads to a situations where one faulty assumption, that two different prices to debt exist from two different time periods, is somehow showing (it's not) that Greek got better deals than Ireland because they rioted (or any reason that can be inserted), and now every riot going forward (when the crash really begins), will be due to other nations believing they can 'also' secure a better deal.
Or let's all just believe in the bs and fight amongst each other how each different country got a different 'fairer' rate and how and why they do or do not deserve it. Hello idiots, this is where the banksters get the people to turn on each other for the banksters frauds. Your bankers are saying, fight each other over fairness over DEBT payments. Let's all sit around a campfire, your local european parliament building, and complain and think racist thoughts against your fellow european brother who is also getting screwed by the same people screwing you.
Or, we can fix the system. Glass/Steagall way. Followed by PHYSICAL ECONOMY measures.
It's the broken system AEP. The greatest system of all time (as said by the Queen as recently as this year...and never more wrong) is broken. It ain't ever being fixed, thankfully.
Thus in a broken ponzi system, two different countries, with similar, yet different situations, get what appears to be rates that don't follow a trendline, or pecking order. Well get over it. That's what broken monetary systems do.
Thus now that every relative indicator is basically broken, or on the way to be, the hardest part will be to tell people like AEP that whatever he could take out of his statistics and be randomly right, now point to nearly absolutely nothing.
Misallocation is here, and relative trends are meaningless (and to a great deal always were). Thus comparing Greece to Ireland on anything other than auctions completing within a nanosecond of each other is now like comparing bond auctions of two completely different time periods (like years apart). That's what happens in rigged, broken, markets.
Don't worry, Greek rates for future debt that will also never be repaid will most likely go up, but hey in this M.C. Escher type economic system where all staircases lead to the same place (Relativity), such upside down expected results should be expected as par for the course.
AEP once again doesn't know the forest from the trees. Not surprising. The jig is up for everybody, and no amount of austerity will fix it. So of course 'austerity preacher' AEP can't believe that austerity didn't fix it. Of course any half-idiot could of seen that coming.
Why didn't austerity work, and never could. Because the problem is much, much bigger, than every country slashing social spending by 100 percent forever. Go ahead and cut, corporate fascists, it won't save this crappy system one bit. Go ahead Obama, Bernanke, Boehner, Pelosi, Palin, and any other corporatist try to play the fascist game.
plus many times.
I can only hope that reasoned people like you get a wider audience.
Great post jmc8888
“Why Are The Irish Not Rioting And Insulting The Germans Yet?”
Because Ireland is run by a Murphya (Irish Mafia that make Sicilian wilt)
The Germans know it.
After all the Germans lent the money to the Murphya.
Let me make this absolutely fucking plain to any bondholder of Murphya debt.
You will never be paid.
Do you understand?
You will never be paid.
You're wrong, Sir Arthur. The McCutcheons rule the roost in Ireland. North and South. Few people know that, that's how good they are.
treeplanter,
How can one disagree with a scum philosophy like that?
Did it hurt when your uncle put his cock up your virgin arse?
You expose yourself as an fraud, not just a bad speller.
? please sir, can I have some more?
http://www.solocheck.ie/search?search=true&dirName=McCutcheon&Send=Search
Director Search Results48 people matched your search query.
Hmm. not convinced ...
More to the point why aren't the Germans rioting and insulting the Irish?Because as my noble Lord Wellington above has pointed out, the Germans are going to pay for all of this,Spain,Greece Ireland whatever via the ECB monetising all their debt,but is this a price the German politicans are prepared to accept in order to have most of Europe under their control?
Correct Lord Peter Pipsqueak
The EU/ECB/FED/IMF have no choice.
They must print paper to cover up the cracks of the wall of debt.
Rooms in Dublin will soon be wallpapered in €100 notes.
The Murphya guarantees this.
What happened to Kudlow's Irish supply side beauty queen? 3 years ago Ireland was the model all other countries should follow.
Johnny Bravo was an advisor to the Treasury Minister. That's what happened.
So your salary is paid in?
Oh?
I get it.
Not €/$/£?
You're just another paid fuck fascist cunt.
You get paid for protection?
What are you hiding?
What have they “got” on you?
eh?
eh?
The Irish are still better than most. They f*cked up and over spent. They are resilient, stoic, and used to the "poverty watch". Rather than through a hissy fit, they'll buck up and take the pain. Bet your ass they (and the other industrious Euros) will recover far more quickly than the Vvacation-help Nations...
WTF
I must have a T-Shirt with your avatar.
"The Irish are still better than most."
That's pure fucking shit.
Not a fan m'lud?
You would fit in better at the HuffPo. Believe it or not, you are lowering the vibration at this site. Go home, little boy.
The answer from Irish commentator James Joyce:
"The fall (bababadalgharaghtakamminarronnkonnbronntonnerronntuonnthunntrovarrhounawnskawntoohoohoordenenthur-nuk!) of a once wallstrait oldparr is retaled early in bed and later on life down through all christian minstrelsy. The great fall of the offwall entailed at such short notice the pftjschute of Finnegan, erse solid man, that the humptyhillhead of humself prumptly sends an unquiring one well to the west in quest of his tumptytumtoes:
and their upturnpikepointandplace is at the knock out in the park where oranges have been laid to rust upon the green since devlinsfirst loved livvy."
Finnegans Wake
The difference in interest rates may have been because Ireland was kinda sorta on Germany's side in WWII. When it came to the UK, the enemy of my enemy is my friend.
You always treat your enemies with more care than your friends.
Get a grip you numbnut.
actuallya kinda, sorta neutral
They put markers on the west coast so Allied pilots could navigate and allowed the sutherlands to fly over donegal/mayo to get to the atlantic - that Cork harbour was a refuelling point for U-boats is a moot point.
" the worst housing data ever recorded is sufficient for a green close"
That line is a classic!
why not the US, British, French, Spanish, German, Canadian, Italian,... are not rioting, welcome to the Zombie world
Irish Finance Minister, Brian Lenihan, on December 10th 2009:
“The inauguration of John F Kennedy as President of the United States in 1961 gave a powerful sense of hope, possibility and self-belief to Irish people all over the world,” he said, speaking about how the Irish people wanted the country to start believing in itself again.
He had earlier declared that the “worst is over” and that “we are now on the road to economic recovery”.
“As we begin to emerge from the unrelenting economic gloom of the last 18 months, we need to rediscover our optimism and our self-belief.”
He concluded by stating: “Our plan is working.We have turned the corner.”
A lot BS. We have had a bank bail-out on crack. We are spending more per capita on this bail-out than any other country in the world, and by a long shot. We have socialized the losses and there will be no profits for a long time. To the outside world, who for some reason think we are heroes for our austerity measures (please see public pay rates prior to the bust and you’ll think again), we almost look like victims of a greater conspiracy involving the EU and other organizations who are out to get the little guy.
However, I beg to differ. Maybe we are not rioting because we know that we, the Irish people, are ultimately to blame for our predicament. When we took out our 110% mortgages purely for speculative purposes, or through naivety that “Ireland was different”, we made free personal decisions. So, I would like to think that the Irish, unlike the Greeks realize and admit mistakes. We can’t riot now, the bad loans with 70% haircuts are now ours. It is done. We are able to pay for them, because the ECB are buying our bonds in the bucket loads. The confidence-trick is beginning to tire and we are now part and parcel of this giant sovereign debt ponzi and it makes no sense to riot now. As it is far too late.
I would like to think that the Irish, unlike the Greeks realize and admit mistakes.
I'll go a step further and say all those who played knew the Celtic Tiger was bullshit from the beginning, and that it was going to end some day. No one feels bitterness or injustice because they have a hangover after drinking all night. No one I know in Dublin, anyway. But I also think it is very, very, early. We'll eventually wonder how we ever drew a lot of conclusions like these about Ireland, if we can remember them.
Most Irish man are drunken cowards. No wonder the ladies there are the biggest buyers vibrators on earth.
The Irish don't protest on the streets,
THEY BOMB THE STREETS!
Just ask those English snobs who got their asses bombed ever since they annexed Ireland :)
Cur smacht air do béal 's bheigh cúramach le do theanga, le do thoil
Sudden Debt, you are bordering on Downes Syndrome.
Macker, a functioning community needs to create space for special people.
You must be English right? :)
Did you know that Downes Syndrome is the most common illness in England because of their alcohol abuse?
Did mommy do a lot of binch drinking when she was pregnant of you?
Do you know who your daddies are?
The English shouldn't mock the Irish, they shouldn't mock anybody because they are the garbage can of Europe :)
SD. I assume you're French.
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