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Why Didn't We Capture the Terrorist Kingpin and Interrogate Him?
I'm as happy as the next red-blooded American that Bin Laden is dead.
For
more than a decade, the government has said that Bin Laden is the
world's worst terrorist, a terrorist kingpin, the head of the worst
terrorist group in the world.
But if we captured and interrogated him, he could have spilled a lot of beans which would help prevent future terrorist attacks.
Right?
But as the Atlantic reports today:
There's one option the administration appears to have never seriously considered: taking bin Laden alive.
***
The
administration had made clear to the military's clandestine Joint
Special Operations Command that it wanted bin Laden dead, according to a
senior U.S. official with knowledge of the discussions. A
high-ranking military officer briefed on the assault said the SEALs
knew their mission was not to take him alive.
The White House now admits that Bin Laden wasn't armed, so why wasn't he captured? The government now says that the Seals who entered the compound thought he was reaching for a weapon.
That
might be true, although Bin Laden wasn't exactly a healthy spring
chicken. Indeed, Bin Laden was already pretty sickly by late 2001.
(Don't worry: This post won't go down any rabbit holes regarding claims
that Bin Laden died years ago.)
As CNN terrorism analyst Peter Bergen - who met Bin Laden and studied Bin Laden and his operation for many years - told CNN in 2002:
He's aged enormously between '97 and October of last year.
This is a man who was clearly not well. I mean, as you see from these
pictures here, he's really, by December he's looking pretty terrible.
But by December, of course, that tape that was aired then, he's barely
moving the left side of his body. So he's clearly got diabetes. He has
low blood pressure. He's got a wound in his foot. He's apparently got
dialysis ... for kidney problems.
I mean, this is a
man who has a number of health problems, apart from the fact that
anybody running around the Afghan mountains is not going to be in great
shape.
Indeed, the oldest - and second-largest - French newspaper claims that Bin Laden was in the hospital for kidney failure two months before 9/11. As the Guardian notes:
Two months before September 11 Osama bin Laden flew to Dubai for 10 days for treatment at the American hospital, where he was visited by the local CIA agent, according to the French newspaper Le Figaro.
The
disclosures are known to come from French intelligence which is keen
to reveal the ambiguous role of the CIA, and to restrain Washington
from extending the war to Iraq and elsewhere.
Bin Laden is reported to have arrived in Dubai on July 4 from Quetta in Pakistan with his own personal doctor, nurse and four bodyguards, to be treated in the urology department.
***
Bin Laden has often
been reported to be in poor health. Some accounts claim that he is
suffering from Hepatitis C, and can expect to live for only two more
years.
According to Le Figaro, last year he ordered a mobile dialysis machine to be delivered to his base at Kandahar in Afghanistan.
And CBS news reported that Bin Laden was ill on September 10, 2001, being treated in a Pakistan hospital with kidney dialysis:
In addition, it is rumored that Bin Laden had Marfan Syndrome - a
disorder of the connective tissue, which usually shortens the life span
(Abraham Lincoln had Marfan).
As Salon noted in November 2001:
Judging
by photos and the FBI's physical records, Osama bin Laden could be a
candidate for the diagnosis. He is said to be between 6 foot 4 inches
and 6 foot 6, which is apparently unusual for his family. He is thin,
bony and has little muscle; he weighs only 160 pounds. And he uses a
cane -- possibly the result of connective tissue or back problems.
Other information about the leader of al-Qaida suggests he may have a
heart condition. His facial structure also resembles that of people with
Marfan.
"He is Marfanoid," says Dr. Richard
Devereux, a clinician who treats patients with the illness at the Weill
Cornell Medical Center in New York. "He seems to have long fingers and
long arms. His head appears to be elongated and his face narrow ...
It's certainly conceivable that he has the Marfan syndrome and could be
evaluated for it."
Though people have long
speculated about bin Laden having Marfan, federal officials won't
answer questions about his health. "We don't discuss the medical
conditions of our enemy commanders," says Maj. Jay Steuck, a Defense
Department spokesman. And a Central Intelligence Agency spokesman says,
"We don't do unclassified medical summaries."
***
Yossef
Bodansky, staff director of the House Task Force on Terrorism, told
the New York Post: "We are getting a lot of reports and rumors. By all
accounts, bin Laden is not a healthy man and is under a lot of stress."David K. Schenker, a research fellow at the
Washington Institute for Near East Policy, agrees that bin Laden's size
is atypical for his surroundings. "I lived in the Middle East, and I
never ran into anyone that tall," he says.
***
Should
bin Laden have Marfan syndrome, the stress of cave-hopping and trying
to outrun Allied cruise missiles could prove deadly. "People with the
disease are told not to engage in heavy exercise," says Dr. Darwin
Prockop, director of the Center for Gene Therapy at Tulane University.
"If Osama bin Laden has Marfan, he is in danger of sudden rupture of
the aorta and sudden death."
Again, this post will
not go down the rabbit hole to ask whether Bin Laden died prior to
Sunday's raid. I am only focusing on the fact that Bin Laden was
probably not a healthy young bad guy when he was thought to be reaching
for a gun.
Bin Laden’s 12 year old daughter purportedly claims
that Bin Laden was successfully captured alive first and then later
summarily executed by the troops. Hopefully, this isn't true.
But assuming the government's version of events is true, why didn't the seals use knock-out gas and capture him? Even common thugs use knock out gas. For example, the U.S. state department warns:
Do not accept food or drink from strangers. Criminals have been known to drug food or drink offered to passengers. Criminals may also spray sleeping gas in train compartments.
Where possible, lock your compartment. If it cannot be locked
securely, take turns sleeping in shifts with
your traveling companions. If that is not possible, stay awake. If you
must sleep unprotected, tie down your luggage
and secure your valuables to the extent possible.
(Be careful if you take any night trains in Italy).
If
common hoodlams knock out their victims, you know that the U.S.
military has stuff they can easily lob in and knock everyone out. Why
didn't the government knock out Bin Laden and then hall him off to the
interrogation room?
Indeed, the U.S. may have gotten the clue about Osama bin Laden's Abbottabad location in 2008. As the Guardian notes:
US may have got Osama bin Laden's Abbottabad clue in 2008 – WikiLeaks
Courier's interrogation at Guantánamo revealed network of messengers that US traced to track down the al-Qaida leader
The
US may have obtained a clue three years ago that Osama bin Laden was
hiding in Abbottabad, according to information gathered by interrogators
at Guantánamo.***
WikiLeaks released the report last
week, prompting speculation that the US, afraid that its planned raid
might be pre-empted, brought forward its attack.
So the U.S. could have knocked him out in 2008 and interrogated him.
As I've pointed out before, the U.S. had multiple opportunities to get Bin Laden in 2001 and 2007:
According
to the U.S. Senate - Bin Laden was "within the grasp" of the U.S.
military in Afghanistan in December 2001, but that then-secretary of
defense Rumsfeld refused to provide the soldiers necessary to capture him.
This is not news: it was disclosed in 2005 by the CIA field commander for the area in Afghanistan where Bin Laden was holed up.
In addition, French soldiers allegedly say that they easily could have captured or killed Bin Laden in Afghanistan, but that the American commanders stopped them.
***
A retired Colonel and Fox News military analyst said that the U.S. could have killed Bin Laden in 2007, but didn't:
We
know, with a 70 percent level of certainty — which is huge in the
world of intelligence — that in August of 2007, bin Laden was in a
convoy headed south from Tora Bora. We had his butt, on camera, on
satellite. We were listening to his conversations. We had the world’s
best hunters/killers — Seal Team 6 [Note: this is the exact same team
that is credited with killing Bin Laden yesterday] — nearby. We had
the world class Joint Special Operations Command (JSOC) coordinating
with the CIA and other agencies. We had unmanned drones overhead with
missiles on their wings; we had the best Air Force on the planet,
begging to drop one on the terrorist. We had him in our sights; we had
done it ....Unbelievably, and in my opinion, criminally, we did not
kill Usama bin Laden.Indeed, a United States Congressman claims that the Bush administration intentionally let Bin Laden escape in order to justify the Iraq war.
Moreover, as I've previously noted, capturing Bin Laden and taking down Al Qaeda was never the real priority:
American historian, investigative journalist and policy analyst Gareth Porter writes in the Asia Times:
***
Feith's book, War and Decision, released last month, provides excerpts of the paper Rumsfeld sent to President George W Bush on September 30, 2001, calling for the administration to focus not on taking down Osama bin Laden's al-Qaeda network but on the aim of establishing "new regimes" in a series of states...
***
If we had really wanted to get Bin Laden, we would have gotten him in 2001 (indeed, the Taliban offered to turn him over), or 2007.
And Gareth Porter reported yesterday that the U.S. didn't even consider capturing Bin Laden as part of its Afghanistan war strategy:
The Rumsfeld and the Cheney and Rumsfeld were determined not to allow a focus Even after Bush
absence of any military planning to catch bin Laden was a function of
Bush's national security team, led by Vice-President Dick Cheney and
Secretary of Defence Donald Rumsfeld, which had firmly opposed any
military operation in Afghanistan that would have had any possibility
of catching bin Laden and his lieutenants.
second-ranking official at the Pentagon, Paul Wolfowitz, had dismissed
CIA warnings of an al Qaeda terrorist attack against the United States
in the summer of 2001, and even after 9/11 had continued to question
the CIA's conclusion that bin Laden and al Qaeda were behind the
attacks.
on bin Laden to interfere with their plan for a U.S. invasion of Iraq
to overthrow the Saddam Hussein regime.
decided in favour of an Afghan campaign, CENTCOM commander Tommy
Franks, who was responsible for the war in Afghanistan, was not
directed to have a plan for bin Laden’s capture or to block his escape
to Pakistan.
We tortured a bunch of innocent farmers, children, and grandparents
... supposedly to get information about Bin Laden. But it doesn't
seem like the government was very interested in actually interrogating
Bin Laden himself.
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Do you want to make me believe the Pakistanis didn't know where he was? And if they knew, do you want to make me believe the US didn't know?
Fearless Doggies Bitchez:
http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/3562677/Fearless-four-legged-w...
Okay cos I am new here I am going to apologise (just once cos this is Fight Club) for cutting and pasting a post I did the other night on the other Bin Laden Story..my only excuse..I was right at the end of that debate and everyone had moved on.
But I think my argument is valid so, just this once, I am going to be a dick and repeat (not promising I won't ever accidentally double post though - that's a glitch I can't always control from waaay over here in west Oz!) So.. here tis..
So..this is my first "serious" post. Up until now I have lurked for 18 months, then braved the "math captcha" (why oh why can't we have the grammar version..oh yeah; econo site..D'oh!) to join and have poked toe into water about 4 times..mostly with humour..and some small, mostly unnoticed insults on morons... But now I just have to dive right into the ring..ding ding.
So here is my theory (which is mine..ahem...)
The modus operandi behind panem et circenses is that the spectacle must go on... and on..ad infinitum..or at least until the fat lady sings.
Therefore it is not enough that Osama be killed..he must be killed in such a way as to polarize us all and provide maximum entertainment and distraction.
We must spend endless hours debating the whole spectacular show that has been provided to us via Circus Maximus...
Did Osama orchestrate/order 9/11?
Does Osama ever even exist?
Was he killed 10 years ago?
Was he killed 10 minutes ago?
Was he a cowardly terrorist firing his AK47 from behind the human shield of his own wife?
Was he the poor helpless unarmed freedom fighter disgustingly gunned down in front of his elderly wife by vicious imperialists?
Is he really dead?
Is it all panem et circenses? But of course.
I have read a lot of commentary, official and blog/web based, all questioning why the US has perhaps accidentally or recklessly released the "shocking truth" that he was unarmed.
Won't this provoke more attacks?
Why did this have to even be mentioned?
It is so blatant and ridiculous that anyone even needs to ask these questions.
Panem et circenses ..keep the masses at odds with each other, give them spectacle..give them distraction, give them heroes and villains.
Are you rooting for the lions or the christians? For the brave Paegniarii versus the nasty Myrmillonis...
But whatever happens don't let the people see behind the stage, the puppet strings, the lies and the bullshit.
So go ahead, keep debating this debacle. Pretend it matters. Spin your conspiracy theories as though they will provide the truth and somehow set everybody free.
The truth is ..yes..there is a conspiracy..and it has been carefully and methodically scripted, filmed, broadcast, spun, and rammed down your unprotesting throats as if it has substance and meaning. And then denied, so you all spend endless hours of your time and energy debating a nothing...
As it was, as it always will be, while we sate our monkey minds on the ephemera of panem et circenses.
I am Aulieude.
(Sorry couldn't resist - Big Big Fan of you know who!!!)
I can see from your writing that you are properly paranoid and delusional, and seem to have found your god amongst the Internet Guru's who somehow know The Truth, The Whole Truth, and Nothing but The Truth, and no one except a paid shill, disinformation agent, or outright apostate would dare challenge their illuminations on anything from the Lunar Landings to 911.
That's another way of saying you'll fit in just fine here, though make sure you're stocked up on MRE's and ammo for the Mad Max days to come.
Dear chindit13
Thank you for your pithy summing up of my entire philosophical stance, political leanings, intellectual capabilities and mental health issues all gleaned from one (slightly tongue-in-cheek) post. I commend your omnipotence and ridiculous hat.
As an atheist, however, I resent your implication that I consider Chumbawamba a deity - I just think he is fucking funny. (We swear a lot here in West Oz... even us girls)
As to your advice on the coming Zombie Apocalypse - I am, of course, all stocked up and ready to roll with a hard rock gold mining spouse who taught me the value of the (physical) shiny a looong time ago.
Mad Max..well it was filmed here so I guess we are better equipped than most to deal with desert duels and no fuels - but actually I think renewables will kick in just fine once they are inevitable and the oil companies no longer have a vested interest in repressing the appropriate R&D.
I look forward to many, more interesting, debates here on ZH
(Please note careful and deliberate placing of commas in last line. Also my, if I do say so myself, witty pun in the first sentence - I thought these little pointers might assist you.)
panem et circenses
"As an atheist, however, I resent your implication that I consider Chumbawamba a deity"
Notice I used a small "g" and implied polytheism.
Anyway, as I said originally, you'll do well here I suspect, and I mean that in a positive way. Keep the gloves off and have fun.
Oh I noticed the small "g" - did you notice my small "a"? Lol Also what would make you think the idea of a pantheon is somehow more acceptable? Hello..Atheist!!!
I agree with you on the fun and bare knuckles bit :)
panem et circenses
My first double post - that didn't take long! And now I know how they happen.
panem et circenses
I can see from your writing that you are properly conditioned and have been sufficiently indoctrinated to accept the government's word on everything - no evidence required - and no one but a tinfoil hat nutjob conspiracy theorist who believes in faked moon landings and shape-shifting lizard aliens would dare challenge the government's 9/11 story.
Thank you for coming out of the closet ... and yes I agree. In fact one might consider that ZH is just another side of an argument promoted by those who want to polarize people, give us a distraction and keep us from joining together. It is said that they want to control all sides in a battle, so they always win.
Given that then... what is the correct path?
Actually I consider ZH one of the few places where clear vision is often expressed. Also my comment was not to say that I don't love a good conspiracy theory..hell even my own theory is a conspiracy theory!
It's hard to break free of the cognitive dissonance.
Frank Herbert used (I hesitate to say "coined" because he often borrowed from many sources - and I say that with great respect...he was an incredible writer who used many many references in his novels) a phrase in his Sci Fi classic Dune - Ghafla: giving oneself up to Gadfly distractions - that I always think of when I find myself caught up in pop culture/media moments...it's SO easy to do, to be distracted by the ephemera, to believe that the shadow is the substance. It's a daily struggle.
If I was truly free of it I wouldn't even have READ this thread, let alone felt compelled to comment!
*sigh* tis hard to be true to ones beliefs..Ghafla is just so tempting!
Hence my tag line..it is a reminder to myself as much as anything.
panem et circenses
Lol ... it is hard to interrogate a corpse.
I am one of the believers that he died of renal failure in December of 2001. He had a fatal degenerative disease and needed dialysis. It is why he agreed to the mission for the CIA (his employer againts the Russians) and his family friend George Bush.
Did they find the dialysis equipment in his compound? I heard no mention of it, even though his disease was well known.
GW might be the most gullible dumbass ZH has given contributor status to. He's a huge embarrassment to this site.
Agreed. Who gives a fuck if they shot him unarmed?
Let him live and you'll have every terrorist between Mindanao and Morocco hijacking buses and taking over schools - and guess what their number one demand would be? Give up BL. If he was in jail somewhere jihadis would always be inspired by him while he was alive. Burying him at sea was a stroke of genius as well so his grave site didn't become stop number three on the most holy muslim places to visit after Mecca and Medina.
I for one am glad someone had the balls and the brains to make the calls.
And news flash..........No one gives a fuck about building 7, who cares if it was a controlled demolition - have you ever heard a single person come forward and say "my such and such relative died in building 7". The facts are saudi islamic terrorists that hate us piloted their planes into buildings 1 & 2, the pentagon and a field in Pennsylvania, and I will believe that until the day I die. I want to end the FED and believe JFK was killed by them and I realize the CIA, military, big business have done a lot of nasty shit, but I hate the fact the idiotic, moronic, slavering building 7 conspiracists seem to make anyone who doesn't buy into their ridiculous bullshit an automatic government toady. Talk about a false dichotomy.
GW - I pity you for the twisted, hate filled, conspiracy laden world that inhabits your mind.
http://www.spywitnessnews.org/content/osama-bin-dead
http://leaksource.wordpress.com/2011/05/02/05012011-osama-bin-laden-announced-dead-on-illuminati-anniversary/
http://www.solarsystemscope.com/
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/al-qaeda/8493391/Osama-bin-Laden-dead-Blackout-during-raid-on-bin-Laden-compound.html
http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-503544_162-20059844-503544.html
http://www.bostonherald.com/news/politics/view.bg?articleid=1335533&srvc=rss
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a6dZIiKjZac&feature=related
Stop second guessing our military.
Go back to trading...
Apache Geronimo did have his revenge in a strange and occult fashion, via doppelgänger and action by distance.
And he wasn't even dead yet.
..uhh...no it wouldn't have been better to capture and interrogate him. The exquisitely sensitive would have been on that like Clinton on interns.
They would have made certain Binny was treated to a Suite at the St. Regis, 24 hour 365/7 lawyers from the best crimial defense firm in the world, at the cost in tens of millions to the people. He would have his family with him, a team of lawyer/counselor from the Civil Rights all over the world, busloads of anti-death penalty wimps, and room service.
He would have been sought after by all the media for interviews about his "feeeelings", muslims the world over would emigrate from their countries to Yew Nork to worship him, and a great many virgins would seek thei shot at fame by attempting to fulfill his destiny without dying.
No, best he have been killed in a way that did not destroy his head so we could all be at least somewhat certain that it was him and not his doppelganger.
They will need a new Goldstein now.
The premeditated killing of another individual that does/has not (1) pose an immeditate treat of imminent attack on the United States, (2) engage in a declared war on a battlefield, or (3) been tried and sentenced by jury for high crimes is murder in the 1st degree. Members of the military and US government employees involved in the planning, execution, and administration of such a premeditated killing are subject to trial by jury for murder or accomplice to murder and/or court martial. There numerous cases and at least 4 different treaties signed by the US as ratified by the US Congress which constitute law on the matter.
Whether they killed Osama here or not, it doesn't matter. They are reporting that they killed someone that fill none of the three pre-requisite conditions for killing by the government. If capturing this person and bringing them before trial would have constituted a clear and present danger to the US, there should have been a trial in absentia. Given they had none, not capturing him and bringing him before a trail jury is a cowardly act of arbitrary murder.
They spent all this money to "protect our way of life" and in the end didn't use our system of justice for dealing with those accused of crimes. In the end, this has all been for nothing.
silver bullets in the eye...bitchez.
Should have taken out his wives while they were at it...but you would have had a shot fot.
Why stop with his wives? Let's kill his neighbours, too - a lot of them don't look right to me!
Of course, the neighbours' relatives will feel a certain anti-american sentiment when we've killed them, and that might lead them to anti-american acts, so we'd better kill them, too.
Of course, their relatives will now be prone to the deadly, incurable virus of anti-americanism, so we'd better 'off' them while we're at it.
I guess this is why nukes were invented - so we can neutralise entire populations who might become infected with anti-americanism.
God save America.
OK, you're from the American Bar Assiociation. We get it.
Better the money spent goes to the lawyers, the whole firm of lawyers that would have been 'hired', to defend him at the people's expense. That way the people could not only bear the grief he has caused, but pay for it too.
The whole thing strikes me as odd, seeing the liberal Democrat in the White House authorizing a flat out assassination. It's hard to verbalize or put my finger on it. With Hussein we at least captured the shitheel alive and saw him tried and hanged.
I mean, I know our government sanctions this kind of stuff all the time, but it seems as if when a Republican is in charge there's at least an attempt to sweep it under the rug, or by the secrecy acknowledge that assassination is a dirty business and best left in the shadows.
I guess what I'm saying is the open admission of a sanctioned assassination is a bit disturbing. Almost as if it was done to prove something, and with a bit of reluctant braggadocio. It would seem the prudent thing to do would have been to capture, extract as much information as possible, then quietly eliminate him. The openness of the whole affair just seems wrong in a weird way, not only counterproductive but useless apart from a possible short-term political gain.
Almost like someone who isn't used to having to make tough decisions feeling forced into sanctioning something that would make him look like a strong leader, despite the disturbing implications of an openly authorized assassination. The constantly changing storyline and conflicting reports makes it appear that the decision was made in haste without much concern for the fallout.
The world's probably a better place without Bin Laden, but something's just wrong here. Almost like it wasn't supposed to happen this way.
Saddam's trial was no real trial. There was no defense lawyer. It was more a military trial one-sided and pre-ordained decision. So was the summary execution. Nothing to be proud of. But carried out by surrogate Iraqis. So no obvious skin off Uncle Sam's nose. The whole invasion was illegal and a war crime compounded by human rights crimes. It was, is, about OIL. Period.
Yeah, that's the problem with catching the bogeyman. He might not give the right answers to the official questions. That gets people asking wrong questions. Then you end up with wrong answers, wrong questions and no bogeyman.
"I'm as happy as the next red-blooded American that Bin Laden is dead."
I'm an American, natural born, unlike our "leader". Over half of my ancestors came to America with Winthrop in the first halp of the 17th century. All but one came before the 19th century and he came before 1850. My blood is red. It was tested today, in fact. I'm not happy bin Laden is dead.
George, I'm very disappointed with you. Osama bin Laden did not get a trial. Is that what you believe in -- killing someone because they're suspected of committing a crime? He wasn't even charged with complicity with the 9-11 mass murder. You're gradually becomming "one of them". You need a reality check.
Sadly, it has become the most enthusiastic, twisted and ironic endorsement of Obama's policy of extrajudicial assassinations.
If all those idiots celebrating in front of the Whitehouse May 1 ever knew what they were also cheering, they'd be making sure the flag was made of kevlar before they wrapped themselves in it...
http://www.democracynow.org/2010/2/9/obama_administration_us_forces_can_...
George, I'm very disappointed with you. Osama bin Laden did not get a trial. Is that what you believe in -- killing someone because they're suspected of committing a crime? He wasn't even charged with complicity with the 9-11 mass murder. You're gradually becomming "one of them". You need a reality check.
I think it's time we took our language back from the American Bar Association.
When we know, not suspect, that someone has committed a crime, like, say, Al Capone shoots someone in broad daylight, in front of a dozen lawyers we KNOW, not suspect, that he did it.
When we have his sperm on a blue dress and he denies having sex with the woman the dress belongs to, and denies that there is a blue dress, we KNOW not suspect that he is lying.
When we know by his own admission, that he planned the 9/11 attacks, and he repeats it over and over for years, then we KNOW, not suspect that he did it.
It's time that we take our system of law and convert it to a System of Justice, or get rid of the notion of justice altogether. Call it the Dept of Whatever.
We All know, except those who would make a fortune off of his continued life, that he is not only Guilty, we know it without the necessity of trying to prove the completely obvious.
I don't have to prove to you that sun shines. All you have to do is stand outside on a day without clouds.
We don't have to waste our resources proving to you anything or anyone is guiilty of a crime when they have been observed doing it, confess to doing, take great pride in doing it, promise to do it many more times, and do in fact create more destruction, grief, and devastation.
It's time that some common sense entered into our Common Law.
Former FBI Translator: Bin Laden Worked for U.S. Right Up Until 9/11
Yes, "FBI Translator". Probably a GS-8.
I thought, according to the conventional stupidity, ObL was a CIA asset? The CIA doesn't have any Arabic speakers? They need to farm out what would be the most important "asset" in the entire history of the CIA to the FBI?
Might have a credibility problem here.
doppleganger
I have no qualms about the killing myself, but in fairness, you did not address the issue.
Thank you.
Until the dirty laundry is completely aired, there will be no closure on this extremely sordid period in our history. I have no illusions that this will ever happen.
Maybe, even likely, bin Laden was guilty of many high crimes and misdemeanors. I would like to see the rule of law displayed. The Son of Sam got that. Why not ObL? He was (allegedly) shot while he was unarmed (twice with a .50 caliber?). FWIW, I don't believe any of it -- it sounds like a lot of bullshit to me. But just bragging about this fantasy shows the world how far we're gone down the rabbit hole to perdition. It's repugnant, beyond belief! Disgusting!
To be sure. Without the rule of law, how are we any different from any other barbarian empire, stretching back to ignorant Egypt? Crimes are committed, and the perps are crowned with laurels, and given the keys to the city. Anyone who questions the lack of due process is considered a terrorist, a Goldstein. I could give a flying fuck about OBL, or his rights, and I'm quite certain he got some minuscule measure of what he deserved. But if we abandon those principles for which our own warriors are literally sacrificing their very lives, then what the fuck is the point? As civilians we owe it to them to set our government in order.
Burial at sea, Pakis never uttered a word 'til Obama announcement, no photos........you gotta be 9/10 stewed or have an anger problem to buy Obama's/MSM's lies. It's hilarious how all the Republineocons now believe Obama's/MSM's every word when just last week they said you can't believe a word outta these mouths. Americans need to put aside their partisan whoring and face the music. Namely, we're broke and it's time to pay up.
911 was an inside job bitchez!
The rest is a distraction, which will cost the inattentive, intellectually dishonest partisan in ways s/he can't yet imagine.
Repeating the signally unverified claim that bin Laden was killed and his body dumped at sea is going down one rather large, albeit crowded rabbit hole, from which the new Emmanuel Goldstein will emerge in three, two, one ....
I grew up with an American education. Not intentionally, but America had the best programs on television and compared to the CBC, to the young, there was no comparison.
From Pa, Hoss, Little Joe and Adam on Bonanza to John Wayne movies to JFK to Zorro to Robert Kennedy to, there are so many others, it is hard to name them all.
I can't imagine Martin Luther King Jr, JFK, Little Joe Cartwright or John Wayne torturing someone for information. It was not the American way.
No, from the black and white tube in front of my young nose, America was above all those things. That was the stuff of Nazi, Gestapo and SS.
I still believe in the illusion that there could be a better place, where Justice, law and order prevails. A place where the tough as nails white knight lived, who had rules governing his own conduct and would stick to them. Yeah, we all knew the other side didn't have rules.
That is what made the good guys different.
Now the truth comes out. Was it ever any different? Was this disease always there?
Why teach the world you are something you are not? Why teach kids there is a higher cause, if there isn't any?
Why is there a spook organization like the CIA? Don't they cause as much or more grief that what they claim to prevent?
I feel sad for what has happened to America, I always believed that was one country which was above torture and clandestine bullshit and President authorized executions without benefit of trial.
Yeah, the war on terror may eventually be won, but was the price worth it? They lost a believer, me.
Do you believe in Santa Claus? Easter Bunny? Tooth Faerie? (I'm purposefully avoiding some famous characters in Christianity.)
I remember someone linking this a few years ago as the GWOT's true purpose was becoming apparent.
As commented below the video, probably better without the laughtrack
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OpZ8EkK3eWY&feature=related
I watched those shows too.
I don't believe anymore either.But I am trying to fix it,fwiw.
I am an American, not spelled with a K, and I know torture is evil.ALWAYS.
Pray for us.We need it now, more than ever.
I grew up with an American education. Not intentionally, but America had the best programs on television and compared to the CBC, to the young, there was no comparison.
From Pa, Hoss, Little Joe and Adam on Bonanza to John Wayne movies to JFK to Zorro to Robert Kennedy to, there are so many others, it is hard to name them all.
I can't imagine Martin Luther King Jr, JFK, Little Joe Cartwright or John Wayne torturing someone for information. It was not the American way.
No, from the black and white tube in front of my young nose, America was above all those things. That was the stuff of Nazi, Gestapo and SS.
I still believe in the illusion that there could be a better place, where Justice, law and order prevails. A place where the tough as nails white knight lived, who had rules governing his own conduct and would stick to them. Yeah, we all knew the other side didn't have rules.
That is what made the good guys different.
Now the truth comes out. Was it ever any different? Was this disease always there?
Why teach the world you are something you are not? Why teach kids there is a higher cause, if there isn't any?
Why is there a spook organization like the CIA? Don't they cause as much or more grief that what they claim to prevent?
I feel sad for what has happened to America, I always believed that was one country which was above torture and clandestine bullshit and President authorized executions without benefit of trial.
Yeah, the war on terror may eventually be won, but was the price worth it? They lost a believer, me.
Why didn't Lincoln use cruise missels to attack Richmond?
Parce qu'il n'a pas croient en commençant une guerre sainte?
http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Missel
El Presidente for the win!
Should OBL have been alive pre Operation Save Obama's Ass, the mission was to KILL. They didn't want him to talk. Our special ops are the best and if you told them to go get OBL alive, that's what they'd do. Just blow the whistle, they take off and shortly come back with OBL, maybe a little worse for wear, but alive.
Exactly, and this wasn't just any special ops ... this was SEAL TEAM 6, the best in our country and perhaps the entire world!
Seal Team 6 was a creation of Bush / Cheney. It was described then as Cheney's dangerous and illegal assassination squad. Now so many seem to be proud of the capability. O"Bama used them for a mission and did not instruct them to give the perp his Miranda rights and there was no trial. Quite an interesting flip for the flopper.
The whole story is fiction GW.The dumping at sea with no pictures quenches it.
He has been dead for years.Duhhhhhh.
But, if he were still alive...yes, they would have captured him.And the show trial of the century would ensue.
But he was already dead so.....cockamamie nonsense ensues!