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WikiLeaks Releases Iraq War Logs Which Detail Over 100,000 Deaths, Show US Ignored Torture, Expose Routine Friendly Fire
Wikileaks has lifted the embargo on what it dubs the biggest leak of American documents in history. The Guardian, which is the primary nexus of data collection, notes that almost "400,000 secret US army field reports have been passed to the
Guardian and a number of other international media organisations via the
whistleblowing website WikiLeaks. The electronic archive is believed to emanate from the same dissident US
army intelligence analyst who earlier this year is alleged to have
leaked a smaller tranche of 90,000 logs chronicling bloody encounters
and civilian killings in the Afghan war." The reports will likely do little to raise the US' standing in the eyes of the international community: "The numerous reports of detainee abuse, often supported by medical
evidence, describe prisoners shackled, blindfolded and hung by wrists or
ankles, and subjected to whipping, punching, kicking or electric
shocks. Six reports end with a detainee's apparent death."Additionally, the reports detail how friendly fire from US troops became routine: Americans have shot at their own troops or allies so often that in at least one case a strafed British vehicle didn't even stop. Since this will apparnetly now be the main story this weekend, might as well get a head start.
The new logs detail how:
- US authorities failed to investigate
hundreds of reports of abuse, torture, rape and even murder by Iraqi
police and soldiers whose conduct appears to be systematic and normally
unpunished. - A US helicopter gunship involved in a notorious
Baghdad incident had previously killed Iraqi insurgents after they tried
to surrender. - More than 15,000 civilians died in previously
unknown incidents. US and UK officials have insisted that no official
record of civilian casualties exists but the logs record 66,081
non-combatant deaths out of a total of 109,000 fatalities.
More from the Guardian:
As recently as December the Americans were passed a video apparently showing Iraqi army officers executing a prisoner
in Tal Afar, northern Iraq. The log states: "The footage shows
approximately 12 Iraqi army soldiers. Ten IA soldiers were talking to
one another while two soldiers held the detainee. The detainee had his
hands bound … The footage shows the IA soldiers moving the detainee into
the street, pushing him to the ground, punching him and shooting him."
The
report named at least one perpetrator and was passed to coalition
forces. But the logs reveal that the coalition has a formal policy of
ignoring such allegations. They record "no investigation is necessary"
and simply pass reports to the same Iraqi units implicated in the
violence. By contrast all allegations involving coalition forces are
subject to formal inquiries. Some cases of alleged abuse by UK and US
troops are also detailed in the logs.
In two Iraqi cases postmortems revealed evidence of death by torture. On 27 August 2009 a US medical officer found "bruises and burns as well as visible injuries to the head, arm, torso, legs and neck"
on the body of one man claimed by police to have killed himself. On 3
December 2008 another detainee, said by police to have died of "bad
kidneys", was found to have "evidence of some type of unknown surgical procedure on [his] abdomen".
A
Pentagon spokesman told the New York Times this week that under its
procedure, when reports of Iraqi abuse were received the US military
"notifies the responsible government of Iraq agency or ministry for
investigation and follow-up".
The logs also illustrate the readiness of US forces to unleash lethal force. In one chilling incident they detail how an Apache helicopter gunship gunned down two men in February 2007.
The
suspected insurgents had been trying to surrender but a lawyer back at
base told the pilots: "You cannot surrender to an aircraft." The Apache,
callsign Crazyhorse 18, was the same unit and helicopter based at Camp
Taji outside Baghdad that later that year, in July, mistakenly killed
two Reuters employees and wounded two children in the streets of
Baghdad.
Iraq Body Count, the London-based group that monitors
civilian casualties, says it has identified around 15,000 previously
unknown civilian deaths from the data contained in the leaked war logs.
Although
US generals have claimed their army does not carry out body counts and
British ministers still say no official statistics exist, the war logs
show these claims are untrue. The field reports purport to identify all
civilian and insurgent casualties, as well as numbers of coalition
forces wounded and killed in action. They give a total of more than
109,000 violent deaths from all causes between 2004 and the end of 2009.
This
includes 66,081 civilians, 23,984 people classed as "enemy" and 15,196
members of the Iraqi security forces. Another 3,771 dead US and allied
soldiers complete the body count.
No fewer than 31,780 of these
deaths are attributed to improvised roadside bombs (IEDs) planted by
insurgents. The other major recorded tally is of 34,814 victims of
sectarian killings, recorded as murders in the logs.
However, the
US figures appear to be unreliable in respect of civilian deaths caused
by their own military activities. For example, in Falluja, the site of
two major urban battles in 2004, no civilian deaths are recorded. Yet
Iraq Body Count monitors identified more than 1,200 civilians who died
during the fighting.
Legal action is already being prepared:
Phil Shiner, human rights specialist at Public Interest Lawyers, plans to use material from the logs in court to try to force the UK to hold a public inquiry into the unlawful killing of Iraqi civilians.
He also plans to sue the British government over its failure to stop the abuse and torture of detainees by Iraqi forces. The coalition's formal policy of not investigating such allegations is "simply not permissible", he says.
Shiner is already pursuing a series of legal actions for former detainees allegedly killed or tortured by British forces in Iraq.
As before, all the docs will be made available online:
WikiLeaks says it is posting online the entire set of 400,000 Iraq field reports – in defiance of the Pentagon.
The whistleblowing activists say they have deleted all names from the documents that might result in reprisals. They were accused by the US military of possibly having "blood on their hands" over the previous Afghan release by redacting too few names. But the military recently conceded that no harm had been identified.
Condemning this fresh leak, however, the Pentagon said: "This security breach could very well get our troops and those they are fighting with killed. Our enemies will mine this information looking for insights into how we operate, cultivate sources and react in combat situations, even the capability of our equipment."
There are many other stories emanating from the main portal, among which:
- The introduction- The leaking of more than 390,000 previously secret US military reports details the hidden realities of the war in Iraq (link)
- A look at Frago 242 - Secret order that let US ignore abuse;
Mistreatment of helpless prisoners by Iraqi security forces included
beatings, burning, electrocution and rape (link) - Iraq war logs: How friendly fire from US troops became routine: Americans have shot at their own troops or allies so often that in at least one case a strafed British vehicle didn't even stop (link)
- Apache crew killed insurgents who tried to surrender: US military legal adviser told helicopter crew that Iraqi men were valid targets as they could not surrender to aircraft (link)
- Iraq war logs reveal civilian body count of invasion is much higher (link)
- Civilians gunned down at checkpoints (link)
- Iran accused of plotting attack on Green Zone: Audacious strike in Baghdad among allegations against Tehran of everything from gun running to training insurgents (link)
- US fails to answer for deaths of journalists: Highest toll among Iraqi reporters caught in crossfire, mistaken for insurgents or murdered by countrymen in sectarian violence (link)
- Killings in the wake of Saddam's hanging: Brothers named after him were lynched along with their mother – while gallows mocking of dictator led to revenge bombing (link)
- Iraq war logs: US spy balloons blew towards Iran: Hi-tech JLens blimps with secret technology used to detect cruise missiles may have dropped into Tehran's lap (link)
A tabular summary of all the Associated Iraqi deaths is presented below:
The link also denotes the method of death on both sides.
The Guardian has also released a map of the deaths (which for now apparently is not working)
For those pressed for time, the below clip summarizes most of the key findings:
Sure enough, the Pentagon has immediately responded (via the New York Times):
“We deplore WikiLeaks for inducing individuals to break the law, leak
classified documents and then cavalierly share that secret information
with the world, including our enemies. We know terrorist organizations
have been mining the leaked Afghan documents for information to use
against us, and this Iraq leak is more than four times as large. By
disclosing such sensitive information, WikiLeaks continues to put at
risk the lives of our troops, their coalition partners and those Iraqis
and Afghans working with us. The only responsible course of action for
WikiLeaks at this point is to return the stolen material and expunge it
from their Web sites as soon as possible.
“We strongly condemn the unauthorized disclosure of classified
information and will not comment on these leaked documents other than to
note that ‘significant activities’ reports are initial, raw
observations by tactical units. They are essentially snapshots of
events, both tragic and mundane, and do not tell the whole story. That
said, the period covered by these reports has been well chronicled in
news stories, books and films, and the release of these field reports
does not bring new understanding to Iraq’s past.
“However, it does expose secret information that could make our troops
even more vulnerable to attack in the future. Just as with the leaked
Afghan documents, we know our enemies will mine this information,
looking for insights into how we operate, cultivate sources and react in
combat situations, even the capability of our equipment. This security
breach could very well get our troops and those they are fighting with
killed.”
Also, remember, the banks are not allowed to reveal anything about their own criminal ways because otherwise the world will end. Ah, the parallels.
And conveniently enough, here is an interview on the very topic between Dylan Ratigan and Pentagon Papers creator Daniel Ellsberg :
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Guilty as charged, though not living in Germany. For the record, I loathe European governments even more, as they seem intent on marginalising and replacing their indigenous populations to create an amorphous peasant caste for a collusion of interests I don't want to get into. A lot of people are going to die because of this.
However, as far as the U.S. goes, there is no decent strategical rationale for being over there, not to mention one of the moral variety. It doesn't matter that you are realistic enough to know as long as many are still living in a dream world where all is hunky-dory and support it for that reason. And the atrocities per se are faits accomplis and don't matter either, what does is the natural policies, and rough exit from an ideational prison of granting legitimacy to non-deserving entities, that should flow from the disgust of knowing about them.
I'm also not sure about any good things it has going for it in our current predicament, nor how it represents the "goodwill" of anyone, nor if it would matter if it did: http://www.vdare.com/roberts/100923_collapse.htm I, again, consider all Western nations to be in terminal decline.
How about being realistic about this: the nature of modern democracy will prevent you from cleaning up any part of your government until its collapse.
Our government may well collapse at some point, but I think not. Our country is a strange blend of people with huge differences that rally when threatened as a whole. It's happened in the past. I think before the government collapses the currently fat, lazy and zpathetic population will wake up and force changes at the ballot box.
The goodwill of America can be seen with how we help people around the world. I may be wrong, but I think we are the single largest benfactor to foreign groups of any country in the world.
I am not the doomsday fatalist that you seem to be. I believ that the inherent goodness in man will always prevail (yes, it may be naive, but it has always worked out that way till now). I also believe that sometimes preemptive action is far less costly than reaction with respect to lives saved and lost.
I'm afraid you are mouthing off platitudes without substance you've been taught in government indoctrination camps that have no validity in the real world nor are followed universally. Non-Euro ethnic groups in America would only feign such dreck for resource acquisition and wealth transfers. "Diversity" is not strength and does not confer unity. "Diversity" lowers trust, both inter- and intra-groups, e.g. whites trust both whites and non-whites less as things get more vibrant. See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_D._Putnam
Ethnic voting blocs demanding a permanent welfare state appear, ethnic grievances between groups ensue, and instead of going after the bankers people quibble based on those and over borderline schizophrenic stuff such as reordering the world on the basis of impossible equality. Here's an excellent short story that illustrates what I mean: http://www.insurgentdesire.org.uk/shipoffools.htm
Good luck placing Africans and third world countries in ecological overshoot. I'm sure they'll thank you profusely when most, if not all, will starve to death as a result of such meddling when the food production gravy train stops.
I think his timing clearly shows he would like to impact the election in our country.
Exactly how?
Wars supported by both parties and the last four presidents.
We'll see how many incumbents are retired with better healthcare and pensions when they could be tried
wow, shocker, the fog of war is ugly and messy.
next subject.
This is why you avoid it at all cost but when you have to take action, take no prisoners and wipe out anything in your way.
A "civil" war with rules only prolongs the war and increases death toll.
Big deal...war is hell. Shit happens.
If actually fought wars to win.....We would win.
No questions asked. That's how you win wars.
No questions asked. That's how you win wars.
No, that's how you get entangled in wars that can't be won.
Out of context, Crockett. Nice knees, btw.;-)
My comment was not out of context at all. If we hadn't been lied into these wars there would be no need to cover up the continuing crimes with more lies.
I re-read the post - you didn't.
The sad thing is that the US will withdraw from Afghanistan and Iraq not because anyone gives a fuck about all the dead american soliders and civilians but because we cant afford it anymore
Why is it sad? Drug production will go back to the Taliban levels, that is it will fall 90%.
Iraq (oil) and opium (Afghanistan).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opium_production_in_Afghanistan
afghanistan is about securing pipelines, black ops opium/heroin drug money, money for military corporate contractors, and ohmygosh! rare earths!
http://smarteconomy.typepad.com/smart_economy/2009/09/the-real-reason-fo...
"war" is all about the resources, always has been, always will be - the rest is spin & propoganda to keep people signing up to "fight for our country" blahblahblah.
Apparently, the globalists, the illuminati are looking to take down USA. It just is not falling fast enough for them. I cannot beleive that all these documents are being leaked by the globalist controlled pentagon and nobody tries to stop it. It does not work that way. Not credible at all. This is all by design.
Jihad until judgment day! Allahu Akbar!
Yawn! These kind of charges are to be expected from malevolent forces with an agenda. The charges are baseless. No cause for concern. Nothing to see here, so move along.
Folks, unfortunately, I'm with the eurotrash on this issue. I think the USA should just bring back all our troops, ships and missles. We can redeploy our assets back at home and then sit back and watch:
1. Germany roll into France AGAIN!
2. Belgium, switzerland and the nordic countries shit their pants
3. Watch the French sell out the french AGAIN!
4. Watch Mother Russia roll into Eastern Europe AGAIN
5. Watch France shit itself AGAIN!
6. Watch Germany and Russia do the European Mombo while France changes its diapers from what is now non-stop shit storm
7. Watch the middle east do the hoochie-coochie with each other
8. Watch China revise Tiawan's street maps and do live re-enactments of WWII on Japan -- Roles reversed of course
9...and oh yea, watch france try to uproot itself from its tectonic plate and try to become the 51st state -- after all, if it wasn't for them, we wouldn't be here....
""Just Come Home""
Ron Paul has been saying it for years....
I'm Soooooo there....
Yeah that worked real well for Clinton when he rolled the military back.
I think he shot up most of our inventory of cruise missles. And invaded a country that was no danger to us.
The Eurotrash can't even clean up their own back yard.
I would not fight ending NATO.
And where did you serve you country? That Eurotrash HAD to go the army all the way until mid-90's unlike you American "I am Rambo now, I held a M16 in gun shop!" boys there.
Navy. Fast attack submarines...when they were on SpecOps.
Mostly in the Pacific. I've spent many an hour with a MK48 as a bed partner.
Hot racking in the bomb room blows, btw.
In other words: FYNQ?
And you still approve what these idiots do for Iraqi civilians? Some soldier you are...or more likely typical swaggering mercenary.
We have the most professional and ethical military force the world has ever known.
Most of these stories are pure bullshit.
But you will believe what you want to.
When SEALs are court martialed because one might have punched a vile murderer, common sense has left the building.
Bravo Rodent! Well said!
"Most ethical and professional"...hahahahahaaa. Maybe if you guys did not forget the batteries and calls to the air support. Otherwise, you just a bunch of trigger happy idiots.
It is going to be fun to watch USA going down soon, all that shit you caused to other countries, is coming back home to roost. Enjoy your new 3rd world shithole, you deserve it.
I do believe I've mentioned how bureaucrats suck balls.
The end of the Republic only means the beginning of the Empire. Stand by.
You might find you were better off with the Republic.
The only way for a socialist government to convince the proles that all is well is to conquer others and take their shit.
Clinton hated the military. He screwed it the best way he knew how -- starve it of cash....That wasn't a roll-back, that was payback.
We did get to replace all those old dusty missles with new shiny ones.
It wasn't all bad.
Go home, your village misses you.
Was Clinton not good for the missile business?
Go home, your village misses you.
"Home? I have no home. Haunted... despised... living like
an animal. The jungle is my home! But I will show the world that I
can be its master."
Damn, I guess you have other plans.
I thought a village idiot would be perfect for a public affairs officer. Let us know if you want to come in from the cold.
You are the poster child that causes widespread international indignation, eliciting the adage, acrimoniously delivered: Yankee Go Home! And fucking stay there.
I disagree.
Seriously, douchebags, people vote with their feet.
Of all the troops on Earth, US troops are the ones they run TOWARD.
That's a sign.
on Fri, 10/22/2010 - 23:48
#671537
Damn, I guess you have other plans.
I thought a village idiot would be perfect for a public affairs officer. Let us know if you want to come in from the cold.
I'm not quite sure what you're saying here. I was reminded of a scene out of the movie, "Ed Wood." As far as coming out of the cold - thanks for your concern.
In fact, I did come out of the cold and have been posting on this site for more than a year now. Glad to see you've joined us and are making good use of your 3 weeks as a commenter. Carry on.
Sounds like a good show.
you have a short memory on French warfare idiot
Man, I dont know if you know but you have just found a justification for Hollywood.
Because what you depicted would only happen in a Hollywood movie.
The US deploying troops around the world for something else than expanding and furthering their best interests?
Plug off from the virtual universe.
The military has been nothing more than a tool of the kleptocracy for many years now.
People must simply stop enlisting... of course, if you do enlist and wind up getting maimed over there don't worry, the VA will take REAL good care of you when you get back....
And yes, as several have suggested above, we do wholeheartedly support the individual men and women (the troops) who are risking their lives for the benefit of the kleptocrats (because it is they who benefit, and these wars have only served to dramatically weaken the USA as a country and make it less safe). It is the criminals that sent them there that we despise so much.
People must simply stop enlisting...
Congratulations! You won today's naive and ridiculous award.
yep...naive to think we can be the worlds policeman and spend trillions every year and interfere in the foreign affairs of other countries without blowback like 9/11... who is being naive?
But, but... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RQZBVTp_-9Y
No shit. You gotta wonder if "Selective Service" rings any bells with these tards.
A draft is much worse. People hate it, and it lowers the level of professionalism.
Oh, like missed enlistment quotas do?
How do numbers equal professionalism?
Seems they are keeping the standards high.
Fear when they empty the prisons to provide ground troops. Atrocities actually will happen, and at a terrifying rate.
Einstein said it better: "The pioneers of a warless world are the [youth] who refuse military service."
But he did a nice job on THE BOMB...
Didn't you guys read history? He did not participate in the development of the bomb. He basically wrote a letter to the US president about the possibility of Germany developing one first.
None of this information is news to anybody who has been actually paying attention, rather than ranting about depleted uranium or whatever the rant of the month is. Might as well have been barking at the moon for all that those sorts of criticisms did to help steer this mess towards a better outcome.
When your input is idiotic, people ignore you. Why shouldn't they? Do people really think soldiers and marines who watched people die in gas attacks are going to listen to anything you have to say when you start off with "illegal war! there were no WMD's!"?
There is a divide between the general public and the military that isn't going anywhere any time soon.
When your input is idiotic, people ignore you.
Or junk you with the facts.
http://www.google.com/images?hl=en&expIds=25657,26637,26992,27026,27031,...
reality check.
Netanyahu proclaimed that 9-11 was very good for Israel. The event got us to fight their wars in the Middle East...all of 'em, with more to come.
Going to War is a BIG decision. Because the kids we ask to fight thm will be brutal. That is human nature when your life is at risk. Perfectly nice WWII veterans told me they took no prisoners...with poor supply lines they lined up the German kids and shot them...and they were haunted by that. Anybody who has not been at War is in the cheap seats. War is hell.
So you're saying that Malmedy was just good policy on the part of the Germans? Or doesn't it work the other way around?
you are right reese. thats why we shouldnt go to war so easily. the lying media were alot to blame, and also our trust, which was more then our leaders deserved.
As folks turn to the tv page..
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oCqsG1t7RoU
One more tragedy among many. All around
I'll raise you.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Kj--FKYLJA&ob=av2n
Title/track blocked by copyright in US. Got a helpin' hand? Meanwhile
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I2Lcogirly8
Love your take on the bag look.. smashing!
It was http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5gHiR1xeOSs
But since you're bumpin' Manu Chao.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H2W4wglPW2c
Where have you been!? Great taste and another backatcha .. in memoriam
- Layne
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f8hT3oDDf6c
Ha!
in memoriam .. of much that remains worthy of fight clubbing outside of wacky-leaks.
Some things simply cannot be denied. Welcome to fight club, I am most enthused to meet your acquaintance iota and your vision is stupendous. Best -
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6IjUtejhUZM
apologies for the mumbles - Layne
another change up..
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wYKJz05fEVo
Excellent fella! Sure we'll cross again
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5hKiePrCV8o
Pleasure. Same same
Remember to stock up that cooler by the lawn chair, (or make up some lemonade) for those that feel compelled to watch. pervs
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S8U4eHPf-Rs
OH miles i loved this movie Traffic. i must of seen it a dozens times before i got it.but i liked the actors so very very much. i just kept watching it to connect. subliminal. O/T did you ever see the Wonder Boys, god that was really really my favorite. well thanks for all the youtube links, i think that is all i understood on this article and posts, but at least get something nowadays. thanks
Is Wikileaks a psych ops?
I don't know but haven't seen any reporting that suggests they are. If any one has facts, please post. From the evidence I've seen so far, they seem credible.
Was 9-11 an inside job?
I don't know but haven't seen any reporting that confirms the view that it was or it wasn't. My issue with the 9-11 commission is that they didn't answer some key questions such as what was NORAD doing on that day? If they were negligent, subpoena and fire those that were in control.
This is all Globalist propaganda folks. This technique is referred as 'Frank Kitson's low intensity operations (pseudo-operations aka Gangs and Counter-gangs).'
The last time Julian released this stunt, he would have appeared on the FBI most wanted site. Let's have a looky at a known prime suspect.
http://www.fbi.gov/wanted/topten/usama-bin-laden
Unbeknown to you, The Globalist are attacking the real issue from another angle. Power, control and separating the population. Let's take a peek at another well crafted report asking for more taxpayer monies.
DOD, DHS Join Forces to Promote Cybersecurityhttp://www.defense.gov/news/newsarticle.aspx?id=61264
Now, you may get weak kneed or shaky fingers to enter this site. Just hit OK button when the big window of warning appears.
https://jsou.socom.mil/Pages/Default.aspx
Our military will clean up this mess as stated numerous times on this site. This mess is at epic proportions and the Global community is aware of culprits. Time just ticks alway, the timer is about to hit zero.
Lastly: Dr. Jacek Szkudlarek interviews Lord Monckton at the alternative Copenhagen conference at the Danish parliament on Sunday, December 6, 2009. Lord Monckton discusses the major players behind the quest for global government, from UN technocrats like Maurice Strong to political frontment like Al Gore. Also discussed is the media's role in playing into the unfolding global government agenda and the possibility that the environmental movement is being funded by China, Russia and other nations as a ploy to de-industrialize the West.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p-ESD5xcN8I
WikiLeaks is playing the role to advance the agenda.
Divide et Impera, bitchez.
I was posting on another forum about our freedoms as individuals and US Citizens.
A military member posted he doesn't give a fuck about our individual freedom or the US Constitution but for only the safety of him and his family.
As the police chief McLamb was fired for upholding his oath, many in law enforcement and the military don't give two shakes about it.
how do you KNOW he was a 'military member'?
He told me, it was a thread I started on the pilot that is refusing to go through body scanners and thread went into our individual rights and the Constitution.
He stated he serves in the military and no reason for him to lie.
Wikileaks is a great service to the people of various countries.
Governments are elected by the people to conduct the people's business. They are not elected as the next current owners of the people. The accounant, lawyer or doctor that I employ can't say that they wont give me some information about me or my position because it is too sensitive. It is not their call, their call is to be my agent and to do my will.
Governments refuse to make available much information for mostly, to protect their political hides, to cover up improper and illegal activity of themselves or mates, to hide their dishonesty and so forth.
There should be more sites like wikileaks.
Now if we only had one for the corporate world. Mabybe insiders of SEC, CFTC, the Fed and so forth might expose a lot of evil doing.
Surely you describe ZH
Allow me to be more pointed. We have very high level appointed individuals at the financial/political levels who are double agents committing espionage. They will be dealt with severally. Executive Orders were written years ago. No escape for these soft cell tyrants working within the US Government.
severely (not severally) - sorry can't help myself. Am I in trouble too?
http://www.thefreedictionary.com/severally
The reference, I believe, was suggesting extreme personal liability despite your misinterpretation.
Link/reference?
http://d.yimg.com/a/p/afp/20101001/capt.photo_1285928435801-1-0.jpg?x=40...
Devious eyes. Hmmm.
You gotta love these internet tough guys. But did they enlist, no they did not. All hat, no cattle. Then they trash talk even Europeans, many of which HAD TO GO to the army (tens of millions of men) unlike these arrogant American armchair soldier idiots, shouting behind the all-volunteer mercenary army.
could you explain what they do in european armies besides s each others d while americans protect them from russia? always wondered that
And you ice-creaming licking boys at nearest Disneyland did exactly what during Cold War? Your army, except for Vietnam, was all volunteer, ours was not. Plus the fact we were the front line.
Der Spiegel has covered this-
http://www.spiegel.de/international/germany/0,1518,702665,00.html
As US taxpayers, willing knowing these facts now, aren't we complicent with the crime by still paying our taxes?
A disciplined and professional army does not kill indiscriminately, loot, rape, or do anything that slows the mission. Killing civilians simply creates revenge seeking guerrillas. Would you feel a little upset if your wife and family were gunned down for no reason? Hands on "Training" such as seen in Iraq leaves an army wide open for defeat if they ever have to face a regular army, the kind that has an air force, in battle. As some Europeans described the U.S. Army in Europe during WWII, "One shootin, Two Lootin".
Ellsberg, a Marine, said this nation was founded by traitors and reminds us all soldiers take an oath like all government employees to serve, protect and defend our Constitution.
So when do traitors start enforcing the oath?
I'm late to the junk war. Sorry.
oh boohoo so some eurofags' feelings will be hurt. wtf do you expect an apache helicopter to do, set down and bro-hugs all around? sorry apaches are built for killing, not for catching grenades. (although they're pretty good at that too.) the untold tragedy here is that a single American life was lost trying to hold hands with a bunch of godless barbarians
I know, right? How dare they try to live their own lives in their own land? Such barbarity, not invading countries half way round the globe. Don't they know that their very existence is an insult to good, God-fearing Christians everywhere? They should all just commit suicide already, but only after killing their kids. But then, I guess our boys could take care of that for them.
I wonder why the CIA, Homeland Security, Pentagon did not try an attack on the servers, network,or the individuals at wikileaks. Maybe they did, or maybe they are not that concerned about the leaks, just seems out of character for our government to allow access that easily.
I remember the founder of Wikileaks was charged with rape of a child for a day before it was dropped. Someone was obviously trying to blackmail him before the first set of leaks.
Get us out of both theaters. The Strategic and tactical initiative in afghan was lost when we allowed resources to be diverted to Iraq. No I'm not a dem...or a repub....the diversion caused our failure in afghan...time to pack up and leave. It isn't the fault of our forces that politics and stupidity caused our failure. They should all be brought home and given a hero's welcome. Time to go Swiss.....
All this talk about whether the wars are right or wrong? Is this behavior appropriate or not?
everyone is arguing over symptoms
If there were no FED, would this, or half of the past century's wars, have ever occured?
we were warned- avoid foreign entanglements, and avoid central banking.
Now where are we?
Exactamundo.
good point. the financial and the military catastrophes are connected.
+1776
we've got an entangling alliance with Israel and a Federal Reserve Bank terrorizing our citizens for the past 100 years.
did folks think our Founding Fathers spilt their blood for polite suggestions?
The pro war/Pro soldier comments on this and other sites will change dramatically when the draft is reinstated!
Really? You're referring to (H.R. 163, S. 89) or H.R. 393? Universal National Service Act of 2003/07/10.
Why didn't this pass the first time? Educate the ZH'ers who watch 'dancing with the stars.'
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Universal_National_Service_Act
Rangel Rules only apply to serfs says IRS
http://christopherfountain.files.wordpress.com/2009/07/rangel.jpg
8 years in the US Army, Iraq service and Honorable Discharge. I am against the wars as well...
I love it that it is so lively on a financial conspiracy blog...everyone keep it up!
The question here is not about what was done in Iraq and Afgahnistan it is about the right of the public to know what is happening.
The public then can enter into its own debate once the facts are in.
But you cant have that debate when facts are hidden for no real reason except to protect politicians, corporations or criminal activity.
Anything that the guardian newspaper publishes is shit.
the paper is read by champagne marxists and rich kids.
oh yeah and read by muslim lawyers just creaming their '76 virgins' underpants about suing our troopers for doing bush's dirty work.
http://www.operationdarkheart.com/
That torture video is sick...I agree with Ron Paul in that we need to end these wars and occupying bases everywhere...aside from unnecessary deaths the wars are bankrupting the nation.
I wish that I could remain as calm and be as persuasive as Ron Paul is when issues such as war are discussed. Thank God for that man. He's the best America's got and I'd like to think that there's a little Ron Paul in each of us.
+ 1,000,000 to that, Crockett. I don't always agree with you, but that comment is spot on.
Bill, always enjoy your comments. Be careful what you wish for. We'll leave details for another day. Timing is not right. For now.
The Venus Project
http://www.thevenusproject.com/
Jacque Fresco is just another crack pot, yet a mirror image of Soros. Have a look.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3eiBt6EHrkc
When the Government announcement is made, all US citizens will know we defaulted on all Central Bankers IOU interest payments. US will begin recoining its own currency under the US Constitution.
Jacque Fresco amongst others are all paid stooges to transition the new normal aka world government.
Be choicely and research everything. My aim is to give you hints of upcoming events/debates. Only the people within a democracy can collectively decide. Democracy is pinnacle in destroying all new unconventional rules of law.
I remember seeing that guy in an Alex Jones production discussing his planned utopia for the world. As for taking over the currency you are referring to the Bill Still notion that the US actually used to employ?
Don't know who Bill Still is. My education is Club of Rome & Trilateral Commission along with the idiots in NGO positions.
If not then check out his latest work The Secret of Oz: http://fliiby.com/file/878768/opvdbqn6ll.html
Amen
Smacks my forehead, that Bill. Yes
I hide out at Nathan's site.
http://economicedge.blogspot.com/
You threw me off guard. I quivered once you mentioned Alex J. His voice & paranoia is beyond my patience.
Edit: You'll find this funny
MarketWatch-Admin Aug 17, 2010 10:20 AM
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"Earlier today, posted the Secrets of OZ by Bill Still. MW deleted my post. Here we go again, share and donate if possible. Thanks.
http://economicedge.blogspot.com/2010/08/bill-still-secret-of-oz.html
or
The Secret of Oz" FREE full version - order a DVD or donate @ SecretofOz dot com
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D22TlYA8F2E"
LOL. the comrades at MW like to dumb down the serfs
My reply to MW
Aug 21, 2010 1:22 PM
I understand your policy, but why would you delete this? There is no copyright infringement. My guess, someone doesn't want the truth to be told. Perhaps I am wrong.
Please advise
Re-post.
Blatent disinformation:
Give me a break! After the last wikileaks disclosure, Assange had two women come forward to say he had molested them - ALL CHARGES WERE DROPPED!
Who is controlling who? Very much like the insane asylum
I think he may have finally found his true calling.
I don't trust these WikiLeaks people. I read somewhere that the founder won't bother with issues related to what really happened on 911. Since 911 was obviously a 'false flag' type of event, I have to be skeptical of anyone in the media who either toes the (ridiculous) official line or refuses to consider more realistic scenarios.
Besides, is WikiLeaks really revealing anything earth shattering? Sure, the information about torture and civilian deaths is a dirty shame, but is it really surprising? I’ll start paying more attention when they start naming names about who packed those three buildings with high explosives on 911. Until then, I smell a rat.
That’s one of the useful things about 911, horrific as it was. It makes for an excellent litmus test to determine who is the enemy and who may be OK.
Unfortunately, what I’m finding is that pretty much everyone in the media and government is the enemy.
this is the nail in the coffin for the american establishment. financially corrupt. morally corrupt.
reading some of these comments, i can only assume alot of zerohedge readers are complete morons who have no respect for humanity. it's pretty sad. hats off to the editorial staff for bringing out the truth. the children unfortunately cant deal with it.
Agreed.
Tyler is not only a market guru but honors the principles of law that the US was founded on. This means exposing inhumanity whether it originates in the military/industrial complex or the Wall Street kleptocracy.
principles of law that the US was founded on
exposing inhumanity
Do you even have a clue about some of the gruesome shit that went down during the American Revolution?
right docj, and guess who the insurgents were then? we are now playing the role of the british to make your comparison correct.
So your assertion is that the Red Coats (and Tories) were behaving like Eagle Scouts during that time?
Riiiiiight.
You might want to read up on the Battle of Groton (CT) Heights, just for instance.
Hey barkingbill,
Does your dick shrink up inside itself whenever your confronted or someone looks through you and see's the miss guided pussy you really are. Well, it happened to your mentor and comrade in verbal arms julian ass ange.
http://ca.news.yahoo.com/s/yahoocanada/101023/canada/wikileaks_founder_j...
Whenever I see a ZH reader running railing accusations at the ZH reader community a red flag appears. It's one thing to comment on many of the behaviors that are associated with public figures and another thing to accuse a community of shared opinions in which TD allows without restraint. You see assholes like yourself think they are more sophisticated and elevated above the rest of the community. By reading your comments my guess is your a shill and apologist for assange an obvious enemy of America. Since your thoughts and opinions are elevated above many of the ZH community it would be safe to assume that your a legend in your own mind, and perhaps your whinny little ass would be better served on another site that is more conducive to your opinions, less we contaminate your pureness.
oh yes and focus on all the little issues. did julian do this, or did he not do that...
he is causing more trouble for the military industrial complex then any of you could in your wildest dreams.
Hey barkingbill,
While your down on your knees barking, panting and licking julian's asshole be sure to save a chunk for bin laden while he's slitting your throats thanking you for all that top secret information that was posted. A real genuine return on investment. Which begs the question...Where does WikiLeaks get it's funding?
a psy op? give me a break. judge the man on his actions. he is doing more to end the wars then any of you. have respect.
Diverted pipeline almost operational.. new naval base in place and inaugurated....war plans complete.. bomb away...
http://bostonwealth.blogspot.com/2010/10/war-plans-now-complete-bomb-awa...
I am maladjusted.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zXEIYpnlxbw
Holy Smokes! Very interesting discussion. If I dissed you it was probably by accident or you said something really stupid.
But I did try to read all comments before responding. Thanks.
We are living in uncertain times and I am grateful for everyone sharing.
Finally, I have to say something about the 911 mosque. I lived on West street for a year (Yes O'Haras did become my local pub). During that time however my building got flooded and we were all evacuated because of work on the 911 site. It sucked.
We had a meet up at with the Salvation Army the Ritz Carlton in Battery Park (that was pretty cool from a sociological point of view!). Media wasn't nice - they focussed on cars being destroyed. And yes this was a nice building but tons of renters were sharing or families.
Getting to the point. Because of the flooding (Port Authority actually settled with us) and ongoing noise issues, I started going to local municipal meetings. The only thing I can say (and others have said it before) is follow the money. Unfortunately, I had to leave the country just as I was starting to understand the municipal gov stuff.
It's not that the albino speaks with a forked tongue, it's what he doesn't say.
This guy is not the asset you think he is. Swallowing his alphabet agency brand of controlled release information is a liability to an accurate perception of Macro events.
When is the Wikileaks dump coming on Saddam's regime?
Saddam's regime was over before Wikileaks was founded.
They have exposed numerous crimes by parties other than the US government/military, however. Their website is just focused on Iraq right now due to the large amount of data, and the attacks they have been subject to by Western Intelligence.
Wikileaks is a sophisticated inside/outside limited hangout operation from the CIA. It is similar to the RAND corporation "Pentagon Papers" incident back in the 1970's. In that case Daniel Ellseberg was long term CIA, and he even worked for Ed Landsdale. The purpose then was to place all the blame for the adventure in Indochina on the military when it was actually the Secret Team that had created the war and killed Kennedy to keep it going.
Wikileaks is run by this Assange character who is from a CIA MK Ultra cult in Australia that was operating in the same general time frame as the People's Temple gig down in guyana. The goal of Wikileaks is to place all of the blame on the US Military for everything going on in Iraq and Afghanistan when the real blame belongs with the Rogue Network inside the US Government that staged 9/11 and started the wars to begin with. Everyone knows that soldiers just follow orders no matter what, Nuremberg or not.
Blame Wall St and the City for the geopolitical activities that are occuring. If we blame the military for all of this, we will get nowhere. The military told Baby Bush not to do it, but the CIA was there with fake intel to get the ball rolling. The real thing that concerned people need to be against is the rule by secrecy that has dominated the Anglo-American world for so long, not common soldiers whether General or Private.
Right, I'm sure the CIA would reveal secret documents from Bilderburg Group meetings.
Seriously, read about the information they have leaked over the last four years and then come back and tell me they are a CIA plant (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikileaks). They are a conspiracy theorist's best friend!
It's late and I'm meandering through the threads. I'm listening to Debussy: Claire de lune. I've got an old sweet vermouth by my side. What a strange movie like experience it is to read the outstretched words; ones screaming for communion, crying impotence, needing hope, desperately trying to avoid despair, forcing laughter, bouts of anger, and confusion paramount.
Yet still, I'm addicted by the desire I see unfolding at Zerohedge.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s2XzoA94Zws (great version performed by Maria Kovazlski)
Not Debussy but interesting:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LGUBMNgSrt0&feature=channel
Skippys last post on ZH....ye are fked...they have theirs and they don't feel like sharing.
Skippy....good luck slaves...please delete my account td.
...the Pentagon said: "This security breach could very well get our troops and those they are fighting with killed.
But Obama says that comabt operations ended on September 1st. Is the Pentagon saying Obama is wrong?
Max Schumacker had it right. "All of a sudden it's closer to the end than the beginning, and death is suddenly a perceptible thing to me, with definable features".
TYLER....i thnk this is getting important here...u must TAKE A POLL in ZH.....
Is Wikileaks CIA?
1 Yes.
2.No
For fuck's sake, you need to get over your addiction to polling booths and a need to know what you should think based on fitting in with the majority of the herd!
A poll will not uncover the truth, it will only show the percentage in ignorance of the truth (whether they are in the majority or the minority) when the truth is finally discovered by other means.
Uh,
No.................but you can bet your ass, Gunter will bane the day he was born.
War sucks, and is hell.
Evidently this is news to some people.
Yes, ruthlessness is the rule of war. A politically correct pussy ass method gets you killed. This is news?
The closest most of the commenters here will ever get to such things is playing Call of Duty in between bong hits. My own brief (9-year) career in Uncle Sam's Greenshirts was spectacularly undistinguished, but you don't have to serve very long to know that war, no matter how "limited", sucks.
docj,
Where we failed (as usual is from not listening),Pres Eisenhower, WARNED us on National B & W (12" screens)TV, to BEWARE THE MILITARY INDUSTRIAL COMPLEX!!.
We did not listen then.
Ike liked nukes.
Are you all-in for Ike, or no?
But is there any truth to the rumor that Julian Assange is the illegitimate son of Nancy Pelosi?