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Wikileaks Releases Video Depicting US Military Slaying Of Dozen Iraqis Including Two Reuters Employees
After much speculation that it was nothing but a red herring, Wikileaks, which has recently gotten some substantial press coverage on both sides, has finally released a classified video leaked by "a number of military whistleblowers" which depicts "the indiscriminate slaying of over a dozen people in the Iraqi suburb of New Baghdad -- including two Reuters news staff." The Reuters employees in question are Saeed Chmagh and Namir Noor-Eldeen. Full video is below, linked from Wikileaks' YouTube site. Full video attached - warning: video is very graphic.
As WikiLeaks further elaborates:
Reuters has been trying to obtain the video through the Freedom of Information Act, without success since the time of the attack. The video, shot from an Apache helicopter gun-site, clearly shows the unprovoked slaying of a wounded Reuters employee and his rescuers. Two young children involved in the rescue were also seriously wounded.
The military did not reveal how the Reuters staff were killed, and stated that they did not know how the children were injured.
After demands by Reuters, the incident was investigated and the U.S. military concluded that the actions of the soldiers were in accordance with the law of armed conflict and its own "Rules of Engagement".
Consequently, WikiLeaks has released the classified Rules of Engagement for 2006, 2007 and 2008, revealing these rules before, during, and after the killings.
WikiLeaks has released both the original 38 minutes video and a shorter version with an initial analysis. Subtitles have been added to both versions from the radio transmissions.
WikiLeaks obtained this video as well as supporting documents from a number of military whistleblowers. WikiLeaks goes to great lengths to verify the authenticity of the information it receives. We have analyzed the information about this incident from a variety of source material. We have spoken to witnesses and journalists directly involved in the incident.
WikiLeaks wants to ensure that all the leaked information it receives gets the attention it deserves. In this particular case, some of the people killed were journalists that were simply doing their jobs: putting their lives at risk in order to report on war. Iraq is a very dangerous place for journalists: from 2003- 2009, 139 journalists were killed while doing their work.
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What a fucking pig you are, damn.
Maybe someone will glass your city and your family, asshole
As Sherman so "eloquently" put it: "War is Hell!"
We seem to have more than a couple of posters on ZH who believe otherwise. With a son in ROTC and a close family friend now in Afghanistan (Marines), I thank you "perchprism" for your comments.
Like most posters, I can't wait until we pull out. In the meantime, I'm not going to micr-manage/second guess while safely seated in front of a computer. War IS Hell!
Are you a war Vet? I think not.
Iraq was our Allie when I was younger, we armed Saddam to fight the Iranians, before that, we were selling the Iranians F-14 Tomcats to fight someone else. Somewhere along the line, we armed Bin Laden to fight the Soviets in Afghanistan, 9/11 hijackers were all Saudi Arabian, then there's that whole drug dealing thing going on.
To make a long story short, you are a fucking idiot perch.
Yeah, at least I can spell "ally" you illiterate twit. And while you're looking for a book to read, pick up anything on history. It will be a story of endless war, because that's what humans do, make war.
And you will also note that war benefits the few, not the many, and never, ever is it fought to 'free' another country, but always to secure resources, and strategically important areas.
Posting that complete nonsense does not make it true.
When the US defeated Japan, the resources that the US was able to secure were . . . .? And those people now living in Japan are simply vassals of the US?
The defeat of Germany was for the purpose of capturing what, German wine production capability? But the Berlin airlift was then a cover for removing loot FROM Berlin? Who knew? You should set up an alternative trooooffer web site.
- good for you,, you blithering piss ant, "perch can spell", wow, what else can you do perch?
Now, are you insinuating that I have something historically incorrect in my previous post?? Go ahead, try me, please point out my error.
War is one thing, but shooting fish in a barrel is another.
I would post the clip of Rummy and Saddam shaking hands but I don't want this page to overload.
Aah, yes.. The classic argument: "Iraqis are subhumans who would rape our children and kill them, if given the chance"
And of course, we all know that Iraqis have no legitimate reason to be pissed off at their Invaders, Conquerors, I mean, their saviors...
What a twisted world you live in, when you generalize an entire population... So let me guess, all Iraqis are Iraqi soldiers, because by definition insurgents are recruiting from the civilian population.
We are in Iraq for oil. War benefits the select few. Those are two facts that there is NO POINT in denying.
If you legitimately believe that Al Qaeda exists (as some kind of James Bond villainous organization), and planned 9/11 from a cave in Afghanistan, I seriously pity someone with such a small mind.
But, I suspect, you are a paid disinformation agent.
9/11 WAS AN INSIDE JOB.
9/11 WAS AN INSIDE JOB!
Indeed. The only people who would disagree are paid disinformation agents, or ordinary folk who would see their entire world view/paradigm collapse, if forced to accept the possibility that the ruling elite orchestrated such an event.
letting fear get the best of you?
I hope there is a hell so you can burn there.
"and it was possible to see the adults picking up their wounded terrorist buddies"
Kind of like, "Anyone who runs is a VC. Anyone who doesn't run is a well disciplined VC"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S06nIz4scvI
In the name of Allah, and his Prophet, peace be upon him, I ask that you, perchprism, be in the first city turned to glass.
why wait till 9/11 ?? you sound soft - you should of done it BEFORE you got punked
Last I checked, we aren't in a war.
We haven't declared war since WWII.
This is a slaughter, one done on our NAME, for the Queen of England's Oil companies, and drug traffickers (afghanistan) amongst who knows how many monetarists interests. Whatever lies that got us in there. That's what the queen is doing there, NOW.
Our guys getting killed to protect opium producers. Great. Hashish is also becoming a big export.
We need to throw out the Queen's drug trade, the Queen's wars, the Queen's deathcare, the Queens derivatives, the Queens global warming, the Queen's Federal Reserve, the Queen's MONETARY SYSTEM.
Most of the above are using the Queen's bunk statistics which happen to hold your future prosperity within them, and its going to make sure you don't get it.
So the Queen outsources her dirty work to us, check
So the Queen's banks launder Afghan opium, amongst many other drug centers, check
So the Queen borrow's for free
So the Queen gets 30 percent return on investment, from that free money, and other money are assets she already held....via interest rate + currecny appreciation.
....and the Queen and her inter-alpha banks are still broke?
I bet she'll still be broke after she explodes iron through her new wet fantasy iron swaps market. Yet we'll all pay for it. Monetarism at its finest. Who cares if it's worth X, we can make it X+1000 by just setting up the market around this craptastic model.
I don't really have a side concerning this video though it was entertaining to watch over lunch. Dude at 5:13, probably wished he was a little bit faster. 5:01 was that his head that went flying. That was pretty cool.
Cruel you say? C’mon if you are reading this in an America, you and I are one in the same.
You may want to look in the mirror. Do you pay taxes? Do you exchange money with people or institutions who pay taxes? Then you know your tax dollars paid for that helicopter, the troops wages in the military, the guns that opened fire, the radios that gave orders to shoot, and on and on and on. Your tax dollars employ those troops. They work for you and to secure your “freedoms.”
You also know that the American way of life enables war and the senseless killing that comes with it. Oil is the lifeblood of our perpetual growing empire and its citizens who live like modern day kings. Terror this, QA that, Bin Laden whatever… the wars are over oil.
Do you own a car? Own a cell phone? Just Google “products made from oil.” Do you own any of those products? Obviously you own a computer. As you type your rebuttal, remember the computer you are typing away at is made partly from oil that came from the same region where those people were killed. The chair you sit in same thing. The cables transmitting your message to be read by thousands of other ZHer’s, same thing. The machines and factories that make all these products, same thing. Get off your fucking high horse.
Unless you are in the streets and doing something other than hiding behind your computer crying about, “Oh the atrocity!” go fuck yourself. Unless you grow your own vegetables, well your own water, sew your own clothes, built your own house, work for yourself, and are totally self-sustainable you have in one way or another donated to the war machine and the murders it is responsible for.
All I see in these whiny comments is a mental game of circle jerk. A bunch of cowards jizzing on some internet forum board about atrocity to make themselves feel absolved from the whole situation. “Oh, oh, ooooh how hoooorible!” Save it.
I didn’t mind so much when it comments about banks from people who still held dollars thus enabling the very system they whined about. But people are losing their lives, and to pretend like you give a shit anymore than giving a shit in theory but not in the slightest shit in the form of action…well that’s about as disgusting as say gunning an unarmed person down in the street.
At least be proud to be a murderer by association. Don’t lie to yourselves and expect the rest of the world to believe it. Know that the American decadent lifestyle is built on the graves of countless bodies from numerous nations across the globe.
Now back to playing Call of Duty Modern Warfare 2 on my Xbox 360 made with hi-grade petroleum exploited from the coast of Nigeria. After all, I have to get in some more hours of “practice.”
And let the flaming and junking begin in 5, 4, 3, 2…
Some interesting perspectives in your post, YADS, with plenty of cold truth, like this:
http://www.google.com/url?q=http://popup.lala.com/popup/432627086508985496&ei=ZVa6S_KlMYH58Ab_-oSYDg&sa=X&oi=music_play_track&resnum=1&ct=result&cd=2&ved=0CAcQ0wQoADAA&usg=AFQjCNFr0-MmYxXku_FDBfORwMPNnJTsdw
Try living without oil.
unfortunately you are quite correct.
this is what happens when the curtain gets pulled back.
as jack was once heard to say -
"YOU WANT THE TRUTH? YOU CANT HANDLE THE FUCKING TRUTH!"
junk away soft cocks
What gives us the right to shoot anybody there in the first place?
Some WMDs that they didn't have seven years ago?
Here's how you come off.
"Whoops, we killed a million people. Sorry. it's war, deal with it."
And then people wonder why terrorists want to kill us... what if the million people that were killed were in Los Angeles or something? Do you think that there'd be some terrorists coming out of Los Angeles to fight back?
"FUCK... it's only a MILLION people. God, Stalin killed more people than that..."
The United States of America: Better than Stalin.
Terrorists wanted to kill us long before we stamped "paid" on Saddam's forehead. Also, no where near a million Iraqis have been killed by our military. Not even close. It's nonsense to use Amnesty International figures. If I could push a button and make them all dead, I would.
Yes, terrorists have long wanted to kill us for our previous "police" actions across the world.
You notice that they never attack Canada, who is just as free. Then again, Canada does not put their nose in the affairs of other countries.
Also, I admit that a million people might be too high, but that's irrelevant as well.
Does it make it better if we "only" killed 100000 people? How about 50000?
Our country went rabid over 3000 deaths. So the best case scenario is that we only killed 16 times that many, and the worse case scenario is over 300 times that many?
I think our resources should be used on more productive things than affecting the policy of countries that will hate us in 20 years.
Actually Canada is way more free, minus the gun rights. They got quasi legal weed, prostitution, homos running around everywhere and nudity and swears on public TV. I dig it.
Just so long as you don't say anything politically incorrect -- then the "hate speech" cops lock you in a dungeon.
When has this ever happened?
Can you please provide ONE example?
Or are you talking about when that chickenhead bitch Ann Coulter got run off of the university campus by the students there?
No, the Coulter episode was typical, but this was more what I had in mind:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_rights_complaints_against_Maclean%27s_magazine
But as I think about it, I do think that there were a number of quotes by the Canadian left in response to Coulter, basically saying, "Hey, we don't have a First Amendment here. The idea of free speech is not really the same here."
I wouldn't want that stupid, hateful, lying woman on my campus either!
Good for the students for saying "We don't want this propaganda on our campus."
And what was the FIRST statement in the article you have me?
"The federal Canadian Human Rights Commission (CHRC) dismissed the Canadian Islamic Congress (CIC)' complaint against Maclean's in June 2008"
They dismissed it. Sure sounds like jail time in a dungeon to me...
The idea behind free speech is that even a stupid, hateful, lying woman has a right to express her views. It's a delicious irony that you and your ilk claim to love freedom, and then denounce someone's ability to speak freely. What you really believe in are the freedoms to do and say as YOU like (e.g., speak the lefitst party line and smoke pot). But if someone wants to practice their own freedoms (e.g., speak an opposing viewpoint or own a gun), that should be outlawed.
Yes, the action was dismissed. My dungeon line was hyperbole. But it's beyond alarming that any such action could exist in the West.
She can do or say whatever she likes, just not on a private college campus where people do not want her to speak.
Why would she want to speak where she is not welcome anyway?
I have no fondness for Coulter, so I don't intend to be defending her. But the Canadian school at issue was the University of Ottawa, which is provincially funded. I don't know how freedom of speech works in Canada, but in the U.S., the governmental funding of the college would be regarded as state action, which means that her speech would be protected by the First Amendment.
Coulter is not a Canadian for one, so Canadian rights don't apply to her.
Next, colleges are still semi-private institutions, which are funded by the CUSTOMERS of the insitutions (students).
If a customer wants you to run your business a certain way, you do it!
Also, I think that people should be free to own guns. It's why I have them under my bed.
I do not see the rights of a non-citizen to speak at a college university being protected though.
So non-citizens lose all rights, or just the ones you don't want them to have? Please clarify.
Well, non-citizens do not have the rights and protections of the laws that were intended for the citizens of a country.
Still, speaking at an event on a college campus is not a right. One, she was not wanted at the college by the customers (students.)
Two, just because you are free to speak doesn't mean that you are allowed to speak wherever and whenever you want to.
I couldn't walk into a local courthouse with a microphone and start spouting off racist propaganda, so why should Coulter be able to walk into another government building and do the same?
She never had the right to go to a private institution and stir hatred in the first place. She never lost a right, because there is no right to do so to begin with.
Henry Rollin's most excellent love letter to Ann Coulter...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iM7MR5_v47w
Yes, an ugly little limit on "freedom" in Canada. Between that, lots of gun control and a really intrusive 'child welfare" nanny state system, I don't see a panacea.
No, the hate speech commission will not dare to engage with head choppers or bombers. It is only blond law abiding women that they are concerned about.
You guys need another Holocaust. You'd love it. I know you would love it.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u-teAqMgJK8&feature=player_embedded
"You guys need another Holocaust. You guys need another one. You f*ckers need another Holocaust."
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u27FywG28yM&feature=player_embedded#
Just a regular bunch of fellows looking for a nine year old to marry.
Yeah, I would love to go there. Especially for the BC buds. But there are some states here with quasi legal weed too now...
Anyway, Canada is way more free than us, and terrorists don't attack them for their "freedom" or because the terrorists "hate their way of life."
I heart guns too. Those students didn't keep Coulter from speaking freely, what they did WAS speak freely and to tell the crazy bitch to get out of town. And she did. Nobody censored her. They just told her what they thought of her.
"You notice that they never attack Canada, who is just as free. Then again, Canada does not put their nose in the affairs of other countries."
You know what really set the terrorists off, though? It was when Bali used to go putting their nose in the affairs of other countries! They set them straight, though. "Bali: keeping its nose out of the affairs of other countries since 2005."
Are you even out of High School yet? You have simply no idea. Islam attacked us during Thomas Jefferson's term - it was jihad then and it's jihad now. They get their ass kicked then they lay low till they rebuild. And the vast majority of those "kills" are either terrorists or AQ or Killed by AQ.
Good damn riddance as far as the kills of terrorists/AQ. Better there than here. It's amazing you don't glory in it.
Hi Judge.
You're bat-shit crazy. The 'Islamic Threat' is what keeps you afraid and makes you tolerate the US foriegn policy (IMF for those who don't resist, Iraq for those that do). It is as simple as that.
Yes, we should kill hundreds of thousands of people to get to 20 people with boxcutters. I should glory in it.
Are you high or what?
Wow. You are one scary, psychotic fuck. I mean wow.
The problem with actually believing what Judge says he believes is that it provides NO SOLUTIONS to the problem, short of: converting all Muslims to the 'correct' religion, or (more preferable and easier to accomplish for Judge)
kill them all, before they can kill all of us.
I just plainly do NOT subscribe to the world view that there is a gigantic struggle of good vs evil, christians vs muslims. All the muslims I have met in my entire life have been respectable, well-mannered individuals. Not maniacs, not irrational, and certainly not hellbent on killing me.
Read more about war, like you are advising others to do. It is always children from the poorest (least educated) families that are recruited. Why? Because there is no other choice, if you want to support your family. Atleast the army provides you with a meal and a place to sleep.
But according to Judge, these children from poor families are the enemy, and they MUST BE KILLED... Not educated... No, all hope is lost, they must be exterminated like vermin.
Judge, if they aren't paying you to spew this BS, I know someone you should get in contact with.
What YOU don't comprehend is that it is the Jihadist who have refused to live in peace until they convert you. Or kill you.
That fella Atta was just a poor uneducated idiot that was tricked into that bombing of the Towers.
And the Detroit plane bomber was just from a poor Nigerian family where his father was a government minister.
The most misunderstood poor and uneducated jihadist must be Osama bin Laden. Reports of that family's wealth must be lies from the conservative media.
go join the war you spineless bastard
Wow perchprism, aren't you a pathetic excuse for a human being, keep drinking the kool aid!
Yeah...right about Iran 1953. Before that and Balfour, things were pretty quiet.
Then again, what about Tim McVeigh? Your homework is to read OBL's grievances, and pleas to the various Sheiks we put into power.
It must be nice living in your black and white world.
You need help. Psychiatric, that is.
And if they could push a button, and make all the idiots like you dead, we would all cheer.
Sep 11 happened in 2001, not in 1970. Nothing happened to America for 2 hundred years until some neocons and oilmen and merhcnats of weapons of mass destruction took over the us congress and government.
The masses are fed opium by fear mongers, they are dumb enough to buy the neocons' fear campaign, and clearly still under doped as desired by the powers that be. Your argument reminds me of Tiger you know, "I never took any of that HGH, I hired the dope doctor to help me recover like everyone else. I was a victim, you know, the women wanted me to do it you know".
As a veteran I can honestly say that I am ashamed of many things I saw in this video. I have a hard time believing that our rules of engagement allow for the shooting of injured, unarmed combatants that are no longer threats. If anything they should have been kept alive for intelligence. Additionally, the laughing and joking that was occurring reminds me that we are just a bunch of animals with a thin coat of humanity. I also wonder how many future Osama's we create through stupid events like this. I know if it were my family killed, I would be looking to set the world on fire.
+++++++++++++++++++
Well said.
This is nothing more than der Bandenkampf with different camo.
There needs to be a way to un-junk posts. I'm getting tired of all the BS of junking some posts just because people disagree with the statement (and usually because the person has become a whipping boy for their comments about gold or the stock market).
It really is immature, and you'd think that adults would be capable of different behavior.
Still, fuck em. They can junk me all day. It doesn't change anything really.
Mad Max
+++++++
MAX
There needs to be some kind of restriction, its getting ridiculous. Maybe you have to be a member for at least a certain length of time before you have access. Some of these people need an IQ test too. The math quiz just isn't a good enough filter.
You're right. The world is neatly compartmentalized into things called "politics" and things called "economics" and they are mutually exclusive and have no possible implications for motivations of human action.
compartmentalization = divide and conquer.
Till the proletariate wakes up to that simple fact, we are done.
Forgive me, but where's the conspiracy? It was in the midst of a war. Assuming all of those guys were innocent (and one has to question if the two Reuters reporters weren't embedded with insurgents to "get their point of view."), war is ugly and mistakes can be made. I'm confused about the complaint of an "uprovoked" attack. In the middle of a war zone with people walking around with guns that are not clearly friendlies, you don't need to be fired upon to take out what the military are assuming to be insurgents.
This tape was leaked to help ramp up the fear campaign here at home. "See what will happen to you, we don't care if you're 'innocent' or not." All of your points above could easily be applied to a counter-insurgency campaign in CONUS. How long until we see it? Will it be OK with you when it comes home?
They will use the same stand-off technology against us come the Revolution. In some ways, these videos are instructional. Watch and learn.
They had no clue the Apache had them in their sights. The same is true of drones with hellfire missiles, they never see it coming. If you are getting shot at with a Dillion Minigun from an Apache, you are going to have a bad day.
The "revolution" will happen without a shot being fired. Support the state sovereignty movements, it's the best way to fight Fedzilla.
Amen, brother.
You're mistaken. There are millions of people in this country just like Judge who will not bat an eye at killing an insurgant like you. Ask the south how states rights worked for them...
Indeed - such a "leak" is unprecedented. That firing was a little wild - good thing we don't kill civilians (aka "dead bastards") on purpose.
Double bingo.
These "brave" gunners will do just fine here in America. They really enjoy killing people. They are real pros.
Our government called "Operation Iraqi Freedom" up there. How will it be called here in America?
Finally, Vietnam did not teach us a shit.
I think it is incredibly important that we see just what is happening in Iraq. The crimes of Vietnam are happening again, and not with our permission. I know of very few Americans who would condone the irresponsible killings of civilians, and we need to know what is being done on our dime. There is no difference between financial wrong doing, and military wrong doing when it is being done in the name of us, the American people.
With all due respect; but ....
Go fuck yourself you fucking maggot. Hopefully you will find yourself in the same situation with the same outcome. Now fuck off back to the hole you crawled out of.
We will suffer for our crimes. The murder of unarmed civilians.. I don't know what to say.
We are suffering for our crimes. Just not in the "traditional" way one thinks they will suffer for killing others. The same criminals who are prosecuting 2 wars for profit, oil, world dominance and aggression are running our economy into the ground. It's not just the government that's behind this mess. It's our corporations, the military etc etc etc.
the shadow knows
Umma Thurmans new movie had a record breaking opening. It sold one ticket for 9 dollars in england. People are finally getting to what's important.
When you approach it from the financial side you think it's all about getting money and gain. But when you look at it from the entire military/financial/smoke screen to cover up what is going on. It's like a giant machine designed to do nothing but tear people apart. It's goal is not to reach equality and learn anything. It's goal is to turn as many people into chickens as it can so it can fuck em. Like I said before. There is no such thing as ascension. The people in power are an unbelievable type of cruelty. It has to be as hidden as possible or people will see the entire structure of it all and rebel.
"The people in power are an unbelievable type of cruelty."
And because they are so insulated from it and profit so heavily from it, I think many involved don't even realize (or don't want to realize) their part in it or the sordid extent of it. If their faces were shoved into it, I think many would be humane enough to change. Really. I don't think there'd be that many who would be too inhuman to change. Trouble is, the entire system is set up to insulate them from something they probably don't even want to know. Ignorance is bliss.
"And because they are so insulated from it and profit so heavily from it, I think many involved don't even realize (or don't want to realize) their part in it or the sordid extent of it."
This is a point very few wish to explore because of our need to dehumanize the dehumanizers. Because we find it cruel and inhuman for people to support this type of insanity, we assume they must be monsters. But denial works for all, not just for those who don't wish to look but for those who are not only looking but enabling. They shield their eyes from their own actions in the same manner we shield our eyes from their actions.
Thank you for verbalizing this very important concept.
It's complicated. They won't limit themselves so they end up hurting so many people that even a 1/10 or 1/20 or 1/1000th's retribution is a horrible thing. So they gang up and won't fight fair about anything. As long as it's a no contest no chance to lose situation they will confidently keep doing it. So it's a strange mix of a huge cruelty masking a huge insecurity.
FFS Cheeky, we'd really appreciate a driveby in chat sometime, all cuzzin aside, we miss you!
did you see any weapons in the hands of Iraquis? I looked and saw no weapons. Our boys are losing their humanity. This is more like a video game war, but real people are getting really dead. Its murder , plain and obvious. But i cannot hold the young ones to account. I was once one of them and am aware of the conditioning that occurs from the moment you enter the service. These kids are ill prepared for the taking of lives and do not yet appreciate their own lives. Only as we age do we begin to see our commonalities and the fragility of life
"Video game war."
+9/11
In the earliest part of the video, I saw one guy that looked like he had an RPG that he rested on his foot at one point. All of the other "weapons" were cameras and/or camera bags.
the few guns present, could have been for self defense, from insurgents. this was obviously, not a combat team, on a mission. it looked like cold blooded murder, to me. I did not see an rpg, it looked like a camera, with a telephoto lens. the journalists, WERE the target
Typical.
Tragic things happen in wars. Crime requires conspiracy and intent. Like many friendly-fire incidents, this was a terrible mistake, not a crime.
And a friendly cover-up too. That's a lot of friendship and dead bodies.
With a gung ho gunner like that, do you think mistakes like this are more likely, or less likely to happen in the future? I feel more remorse playing a video game than this guy showed after finding out he just killed a couple of kids.
Firstly, there are plenty of "terrible mistakes" which are also crimes - many road fatalities genuinely fall into both categories. However, the perpetrators of these killings clearly don't care who they kill, so it doesn't really qualify as a "mistake" at all. It is a crime.
Secondly, the US military has a scandalous record of covering up events like these. They lie repeatedly - to the extent that nothing they say can be trusted. I hate to break it to you, but the US military are not the good guys in this conflict - they are the archetypal merciless, murdering invaders - just like the Nazis in old war movies.
When all you have is a hammer (30mm) everything looks like a nail (insurgent).
I believe that this footage is from the pilot's camera, not the gunner's. To my eye, the black tele-photo cameras slung over each of the photographers' right shoulders, rather then around their necks, do indeed look like weapons. If it wasn't for the text and arrows overlayed on the video, I would not have guessed that they were cameras. At 3:45 the two men not labeled as a journalists (producers' distraction) are definitely carrying long guns in their right hands; looks to me like AKs, as the gunner says he can identify while looking through his sight (not shown). These are the men the gunner is talking about while the pilot's camera (shown) is trained on the journalist walking in front.
The Apache is talking with ground troops in the immediate area, for which it is responsible for protecting. God forbid, if I was in the same situation I probably would have asked for permission to engage, too.
If I was driving through a combat zone with my children in the car, and saw that bloody hell on the road in front of me, I truly don't know if I would stop to help, as these poor souls did, or drive on.
Like a U-Boat commander that's taken out a ship, you'd shoot the civilian power-launch come to retrieve the dead and wounded? That was a war crime. So is this.
No I would not, nor did I see a civilian power-launch in the video. Neither do I know what the ROE were for this Apache that day. I did hear the Apache ask, and receive, permission to fire on the van coming to pick up the wounded. The text at the beginning says the review determined the ROE were followed.
I've been looking for a post to reply to. There is so much vitriol on both side of the coin here, but your post seems most reasonable (so far as I have looked). This video is disturbing to watch, to see people actually be killed by an "unseen" force, which happens to be the US Army. We are so jaded and/or separated from death that when we see what it really looks like, it's hard to digest and ponder.
I hate to see people killed or wounded, especially for idealogical differences. I believe these Apache helicopters were providing air support for a ground unit, though, right? So their job was to protect and support whatever troops were in that area. When they see people congregating with weapons, it's cause for alarm and to take whatever action is required or ordered at the time. That action was to neutralize the hostiles, taking with them any others in the area (obviously, if you are going to use a grenade launcher, or whatever weapon that was). They did their job, and they were likely pumped with adrenaline, which made their comments inappropriate. You have to 'hate' your enemy, otherwise it's quite difficult to shoot them. This is why I think there are so many cases of PTSD and psychological disorders with military personnel. It's hard to hate someone you don't know, so you categorize them as 'bastards' or whatever. Anyway.
That's my take on it. It's so hard to watch people killed. I wish war didn't exist and everyone could be friendly and happy with each other. But I don't think that will ever happen. We as humans are flawed, egotistical and power-hungry. We want our way and are willing to kill to get it - Americans, Africans, Russians, Chinese, Iraquis, Iranians, Isrealites, etc... no one is exempt. Until Christ returns, there will always be this kind of video to view, unfortunately. Come quickly, Lord!
P.S. - My son is serving in Iraq at the moment. Please keep him, the military, and innocent civilians in your prayers. They need it.
Sir, even if I did pray, I wouldn't be wasting it on someone who is putting my life and my future and the life and future of my family in jeopardy by being in a foreign land kicking hornet nests.
What's wrong with you? Just because your son made a stupid choice in life, you want me to support him?
There will be no Rapture and there will be no Second Coming. That's all a bunch of bullshit you were taught to believe so that you can justify your own crimes. It's so convenient to say that this will all end when some Christ dude finally shows up. Well, what if he doesn't?
Or say he does? Do you think he's going to read your messages and send you up to heaven for condoning murder?
Again, what's wrong with you? What happened to you to make your brain process information in such a dysfunctional manner?
I am Chumbawamba.
No offense intended; you are certainly entitled to your opinion. I think I understand where you're coming from. I'm afraid for my family and my life too. It's a pretty crappy world we live in - definitely not what I believe God intended. But just MHO.
Get your son out of Iraq. He should not be risking his life for the U.S.'s oil and corporate interests. I admire his courage, but it is not for a worthy cause. Wars leave longlasting scars (emotional and psychological). This is a war based on lies. I don't mean you or your son any disrespect. The military and the government couldn't care less for U.S. or anybody elses lives.
Thanks for thinking of him, but it's not up to him to decide which cause is worthy or not. That is the job of politicians. I believe our president deems it worthy to keep our troops in the middle east. Apparently, oil and corporate interests are indeed worth fighting for, at least in the eyes of our current administration. There may also be some other reason for being over there, but it escapes me at the moment.
Its your duty as a parent to convince him. You seem like a nice guy but a little too trusting of the government. Look what we have done the world over with our conflicts, I urge you to research this- Nicaragua, Panama, Several s.american countries, Vietnam, El salvador,Iran, its endless. Removing Presidents and replacing them with evil murdering rulers to what end? Monetary gain. Is that worth our childrens lives. No. I speak to you as a parent I am not lecturing you, and wish your son a safe life. My heart aches for you. All the best.
Thanks, Rick. I appreciate your comments. My son made his decision to join the Army -- he left for Basic Training last July, a week after his 19th birthday and his high school graduation. Personally, I would have steered him away from such a choice, but he was determined, and an adult. He is finding that it's not the glorious, gun-shooting romp that Call of Duty was, but he's dealing with it. He's in for 4 years active and 4 more years reserve duty. You cannot 'quit' once you're in. So I just pray for his safety and that he would learn a lot while serving his country. I tell him that I'm proud of him and that he chose an honorable job, and I believe that. That's the best a parent can do.
Maybe someday an Apache can fly in your neighborhood and launch missles into your house because your neighbor said you were aiding insurgants.
yeowsers. That's fucked up.
They must have been terrorists, which hate our freedom, obviously.
You know, we have money to do THIS sort of thing, but the Republicans filibuster the jobs bill.
Okay, so here's a trillion dollars to kill innocent people and build schools for Iraqis, BUT we don't have ten billion to help people who need work.
I love what the Republican party did to America. And now, we can fix the problems that they caused... by voting for them again.
LOL at teabaggers.
At least we have a cease of hostilities while Obama is in office and innocents can live free of Republican oppression.
Master Bates finally is correct.
Hopefully the teabaggers won't get elected again and start killing children and bailing out the TBTF and spending our nation into oblivion.
Thank you Master Bates for your wisdom and input.
Obama should end the war, and stop spending money on socialist projects to help illegals.
Then again, he's much better than the people he replaced. I know that I will never vote for a Republican in my life, unless it's Ron Paul or somebody similar.
The rest ruin the country each time they are in power, and create financial crisises at the ends of their terms. (1987, 1991, 2008... coincidence?)
You're welcome for the wisdom. I do what I can.
Republicans go into government claiming it doesn't work and should be dismantled.
Republicans then give all the money to private companies run by either them, a family member, or friend that they have a guarantee with that they will be a high paid do nothing executive.
Republicans then do not put regulations in place for that money to ensure they can pilfer as much tax money as possible since 'they are taxed too much', however, the people that could really use that tax money (middle class) just ends up being gouged when that new company becomes a TBTF or a Monopoly in their industry. Not to mention no bid contracts and no incentive to not go over budget 'accidentally'.
The country then falls apart, democrats get elected, try to restore balance by giving the lower/middle class a hand vs the top 20 earners in the country, and get called socialists and have nutsos try and crash planes into the IRS and try to kill elected officials.
Why is it not socialism when Republicans give money to all their friends and the old companies they used to work for?
What is so wrong about helping the middle / lower class get back to an even playing field?
What is so wrong about some regulations to ensure money isn't going to nothing?
What is so wrong about making companies bid for contracts?
What is so wrong about ending double tax deduction benefits for companies that put pension agreements in place (corporate welfare)?
I wish the Democrats in congress had the balls to say this shit and I wish the Republicans would stop making up total bullshit as if their main constituency actually benefits from their proposals and I wish people would educate themselves more. But, these are all fantasies.
Go read a book about economics.. oh wait.. I should stop having such wild fantasies. People don't actually bother to learn anything before making stupid comments, I forgot.
It is socialism when the government gives money to private industries. I wish republicans understood that as well as libertarians do.
I did not know that John Kennedy and Lindon Johnson were republicans.
Wikileaks, those guys are doing a God's work, not Goldman.
Chicken shit cowards raining death from above. Killing the wounded? What's the difference between a US helicopter pilot and an SS storm trooper? Exactly nothing. And yes, I'm Godwined out.
You mean as opposed to suicide bombers that blow themselves up in crowded marketplaces, killing women, children - all civilians. They're brave, are they?
You don't 'Win the War' by being as bad as your enemy. Else, what's the real, existential point in 'winning'? And fuck yeah, they're braver. Not right, not by any means. But they aren't rolling around three thousand yards out, reigning death from above in their cozy air-conditioned cockpits.
No, they're kill women and children. Yes, a lot braver.
And we don't? Did you watch the video? Have you been paying attention? Is there an organic difficiency with your ability to uptake information? At least those evil bastards put their lives on the lines. The evil bastards in the chopper just put their fingers on the trigger and watch the screen. THen make snide comments. I almost expected a 'yo, pass the Cheetos' line after the kids got shot.
Maybe the reporters shouldn't have been strolling with insurgents with AK's and RPG's that are clearly visible in the video? How about that?
Maybe the insurgents shouldnt walk around with their guns and rocket launchers with their kids around if they cared about them.
"Maybe the reporters shouldn't have been strolling with insurgents with AK's and RPG's that are clearly visible in the video?"
I'm sure that's exactly what the Soviets would have said about any of our reporters getting killed while they were in Afghanistan covening the Soviet war there.
"Maybe the insurgents shouldnt walk around with their guns and rocket launchers with their kids around if they cared about them."
I didn't see any weapons on the rescue personnel who left the van containing the kids. They were just trying to help the wounded reporter who had no weapon either even after the Apache gunner said, "Come on, grab a weapon..." in the hopes that he'd be able to "justify" firing his 30mm cannon against a badly wounded human being.
The evil of the homicide bombers does not magically cancel out the evil of killing innocent people shown on this video.
I adore comments like this. You imply the actions of a suicide bomber and the actions depicted in this video are equivalent, literally and morally.
And they are.
Checkmate.
Perfect.
What is with this "they" and "them" shit all the time?
For the 100 or so suicide bombers, we kill how many THOUSANDS?
Why? Because they look alike?
It's like how I'm an American and David Koresh was an American.
That doesn't make me a right wing fundamentalist child rapist.
Should people kill all Americans because David Koresh was raping 12 year old girls at his compound?
So should we kill tens or hundreds of thousands because of the actions of less than 500 people?
Only if they have oil, I mean WMD's.
It is difficult to judge troops based on behavior in a war where the enemy has no such standards to apply. There were clearly weapons in the original group fired upon, and therefore they are to be treated as enemy combatants. The reporters should have been aware of the risks they took in walking with the enemy for a good story.
Now, that being said, the unprofessional commentary and behavior of the soldiers on the radio was appalling, as well as the firing on a van coming by to pick up the wounded. Warning shots should have been fired if the desired effect was to send the van running. No such warning was given. Additionally, the gunner's "delight" in several instances where he was "finally" allowed to shoot was disgusting, as well as the comment about "their fault for bringing children into a battle". There was no battle. this was a slaughter, and the first part rightfully so. The second part, absolutely not rightfully so.
These are just my opinions.
"it's their fault for bringing their children to the battle"
Oh my f'ing god.
How can the gunner have absolutely no remorse for the fact that he just killed a couple of kids?
Years and years growing up in 'Merika, playing Doom and Quake, training to be an MMA fighter so he can choke somebody out. 'Merika!
To quote from Apocalypse Now:
"Easy, you just don't lead em as much!"
You mean "Full Metal Jacket"
Yeah, got my 'nam movies confused. Oops.
The Fog of War- simple as that. Debate the merits of the war itself but, once engaged, these things can happen. If I were a reporter operating in a war zone I would be more cognizant of the potential for misinterpretation- perhaps I would make a habit of carrying my camera in a bag so that it is not confused as an RPG.
that and the illegal stimulant's they are probably "amped" up on. Just ask the dead Canadians that we're killed with "friendly fire" by two fighter jocks, their defense was that it wasn't them but their illegal stimulates at fault!
"I killed women and children because I get paid 30 grand a year to do it!"
How noble...
IDIOT!!
Yeah, I guess that they get free college tuition and a bunch of welfare for their wives to stay at home, pop out kids, and get fat.
So yeah, they do get paid more than 30k to kill innocent women and children.
Killing for small sums of money is not a noble job, no matter how you look at it.
at the nuremburg trials after ww2 it was deemed not an effective defence to say "i was only acting under orders".
what has happened here was murder. plain and simple.
the group of iraqis at the begining of the video were obviously not engaged in combat and i could not make out any weapons.
the attitude of the us helicopter crew was disgusting and if any of them were my sons they would be disowned.
the shitstorm of hate that the us and the uk will get because of our illegal and unjustified murder and political/financial curruption will be richly deserved.
and as for you mcl2177. words fail me.
Thats like saying the Clippers don't suck at basketball, because they get paid to play. They suck, 'nuff said.
Soldiers are responsible for their actions regardless of what the orders are. War crimes are war crimes.
Well, at least they seemed to be enjoying themselves. This makes me feel my tax dollars are being well spent.
i'm sure you will feel the same if it happened to your close family
I was being sarcastic. Sorry it didn't come across that way.
sorry, my bad. "junk" redacted.
ZH thank you for continuing to expose the lies and corruptions! Not forgetting the value you bring us as the propaganda machine has overtaken the U.S. Also, thanks to Wikileaks for their courage in exposing this corruption! The US Gov is working hard to shut down Wikileaks and intimidate those exposing their lies and corruption. The US Gov is at war with the world including it's own citizens.
Yawn... War is hell... Next article, please...
Looked more like murder to me!
fool
The dudes in the Chopper are lighting the fires then, if your analogy is correct.
"Nice"
The most chilling word I've heard in a long time
Trigger happy shooters are not compatible with winning hearts and minds
It's becoming painfully obvious that the only thing backing up our US dollar is cheap oil secured by the military.