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Wikileaks Releases Video Depicting US Military Slaying Of Dozen Iraqis Including Two Reuters Employees
After much speculation that it was nothing but a red herring, Wikileaks, which has recently gotten some substantial press coverage on both sides, has finally released a classified video leaked by "a number of military whistleblowers" which depicts "the indiscriminate slaying of over a dozen people in the Iraqi suburb of New Baghdad -- including two Reuters news staff." The Reuters employees in question are Saeed Chmagh and Namir Noor-Eldeen. Full video is below, linked from Wikileaks' YouTube site. Full video attached - warning: video is very graphic.
As WikiLeaks further elaborates:
Reuters has been trying to obtain the video through the Freedom of Information Act, without success since the time of the attack. The video, shot from an Apache helicopter gun-site, clearly shows the unprovoked slaying of a wounded Reuters employee and his rescuers. Two young children involved in the rescue were also seriously wounded.
The military did not reveal how the Reuters staff were killed, and stated that they did not know how the children were injured.
After demands by Reuters, the incident was investigated and the U.S. military concluded that the actions of the soldiers were in accordance with the law of armed conflict and its own "Rules of Engagement".
Consequently, WikiLeaks has released the classified Rules of Engagement for 2006, 2007 and 2008, revealing these rules before, during, and after the killings.
WikiLeaks has released both the original 38 minutes video and a shorter version with an initial analysis. Subtitles have been added to both versions from the radio transmissions.
WikiLeaks obtained this video as well as supporting documents from a number of military whistleblowers. WikiLeaks goes to great lengths to verify the authenticity of the information it receives. We have analyzed the information about this incident from a variety of source material. We have spoken to witnesses and journalists directly involved in the incident.
WikiLeaks wants to ensure that all the leaked information it receives gets the attention it deserves. In this particular case, some of the people killed were journalists that were simply doing their jobs: putting their lives at risk in order to report on war. Iraq is a very dangerous place for journalists: from 2003- 2009, 139 journalists were killed while doing their work.
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Unfortunately anyone in a "war zone" is a target, just as in the last twenty conflicts in history.
Blame the politicians for sending the troops, the troops are just doing their job whether you like it or not and urban warfare is always bloody, people who one minute are shooting at you, hide their weapons, then walk around like innocent civilians.
And when the hell are we getting out of Iraq and Afghanistan? Thanks Mr. Hope for nothing...
I have nothing but respect for our soldiers, but the leadership is a joke and our men are being put in positions that they never should have. No time for blame and it doesn't matter at all whether Iraq was involved in 9/11 or whatever reason we had for starting this war. It doesn't matter.
It is simply time to end this war and bring them home.
I have nothing but respect for our soldiers, but the leadership is a joke and our men are being put in positions that they never should have.
And look how the ranks begin to sort all this out and make a demonstration that controlling the nerve centers of the apparatus is not control of the apparatus. There are serious penalties under the UCMJ for following unlawful orders and it would seem that there are quite a number that are morally or ethically challenged or conflicted and believe they are being called to the questions of the age.
at the end of the day soldiers are just hired killers for some ideology or other.
i have no respect for them but would like to develop compassion.
what kind of man takes 'orders' from another man.
i agree with the bringing them home bit.
what kind of man takes 'orders' from another man.
Men who want other men to pay for their health care.
War kills. People die. Reporters report. Publicist lie.
Thank goodness for Wikileaks.
They attacked the ambulance?
Galatians 6:7 bitches!
I am Chumbawamba.
Do not be deceived, God is not mocked; for whatever a man sows, this he will also reap. Is that the quote Chumba?
The longer version, but yes.
Most people know it as "you reap what you sow."
When you sow decades of this kind of shit, what do you expect to reap?
A bitter harvest is forthcoming.
I am Chumbawamba.
Proverbs 29:18 - Where there is no revelation, people cast off restraint; but blessed are those who heed wisdom's instruction. (NIV)
That is a bunch of crap. I'm going to lay this down for you. That comes from our guides and our authority figures in heaven. It's a ploy. It's a there's a higher authority that we are responsible to. We are so responsible. We are so very very careful. It's the man behind the curtain strategy and it works both ways. It's the biggest lie in the world. There is no higher authority. There is no man behind the curtain that will punish or judge or do anything for you. You're loving gentle god is the people who raise these armies and do these things. They say the same thing your guides and angels do. That they are responsible. That they are careful. You're part in all this evil is right in front of your face and your lying leaders are the same as your lying guides and angels. Whatever good there is created in small pockets cut off from the insanity and then it's turned into the fungible energy pool. Where our leaders stitch that love and good intentions into a sheep suit and wear it around. Because without that sheep suit their energy would be so disgusting and dangerous and reprehensible that you would immediately attack them or run from them for fear of you own life.
Because the world is not about anything other than animal husbandry. There are shepards, there are sheep. We are the sheep. We produce either the cloak or the dagger. You're sincere love towards another person will allow them become trusting enough to be put in harms way the next life where they are used and abused in some fashion from a member of the dagger class. Then once the trust is all used up you are re healed to be part of the next meal for the daggers. The lie is that there is a good shepard. The need issue is the core. We don't need them. We don't need them at all. They however need us to create what they want to create. Because they've got a taste for lamb and they are adapted to eat it. Gods love is many times greater and more powerful than just another regular human being. Because he is part of the class that get's to understand everything about you and know exactly how to manipulate and handle you without you getting that kind of information. Fake manipulative love is many times stronger than the real thing but it won't last because it can't stand up to the test of time and true intimacy. The things these people do must be hidden because they generate massive revolt and kill it kill it with fire responses. They live in a closet mimicing a real person trying to figure out ways to live exactly as caligula lived without getting stabbed. They pretend to respond to criticism and to care but it's all faked and counterfeited. They don't understand anything other than dominance and gang violence be it starter gang violence like mac versus pc, or intermediate like soccer hooligans or hockey fans. Or advanced gang violence like drug gangs and cia, and armies and police. They try to tell us we are just like they are but all we really do is huddle together into the lower echelon gangs for protection.
If they were entirely removed from input into the co-creation process we would naturally relax and indivduate further without people saying your a queer or you dress funny or you're strange. But they can't have us like that so they force us into the root/branch or you are just an ego extension of me and you like what I like and we need this and we are two peas in a pod because it's necessary for their manipulation and never ending struggle to achieve perfect dominance and control so they teach us how hurt each other for individuating in order to keep enough of the your just like us you want what we want connection going to avoid the complete and total and utter rebellion from it all.
I can see the initial confusion could allow for the initial shootings, but there was no need to shoot up that van or kill somebody who plainly is injured and poses little threat.
Clearly this whole war needs to end. Operation Democracy is Not working, never could have worked. It was ignorant of the Iraqi and Reuters personel to carry fire arms in the copper crews view , can we say stupid, the crew were doing what they were there for, right or wrong, to shot the enemy, but they the Iraqi's may have felt secure being in sight, or a clever innocence ploy.. who knows? Can't bring back the dead . It's a dangerous world pick you're fights wisely.
Regardless of your opinion on this video, Wikileaks is doing a great job by giving it publicity, I would encourage all of you to support Wikileaks financially if able (and no, I do not work for them)
I was always told not to discuss religion and politics and this thread is full of both. Arguing with people on the internet is like using a strainer to bail water out of a sinking boat.
And WTF does this thread have to do with finance?
"And WTF does this thread have to do with finance?"
- oh, about 2 trillion over the last few years, thats not counting the 2.3 trillion Rumsfeld lost/can't account for back in 2001, at least that's $ amount that we're aware of, I suspect that's much much more.
I served in the military and this is one reason I left Being able to think for yourself and know right from wrong is not something desired in a soldier. Do not think for one second some of these soldiers do not enjoy killing innocents. They think this is a video game. If the police or military did this here they would cover it up or go to jail. In instances where there is no wrong doing, you do not hide from the truth. Yes it is war but to target anyone just so you can shoot is ridiculous. You expect better from americans.
America killed over one million Vietnamese in the 70's in order to stop communism. Now corporate communism dominates the land and where is the call to arms?
True... I suppose the current political environment is proof the war was not all wrong.
"Nice."
"Good Shootin'."
"Thanks."
The banality of evil.
I am Chumbawamba.
Are you on a horse ?
He is a horse.
He is Chumbawamba.
He may be a horse, my girlfriend calls me a horse,... python, snake, etc., etc.
hahaha...yeah ok...thats not what I meant but good one...
"Thats what she said." -Rusty
"Come on, let us shoot!"
Cowards.
America is a land of Cowards. And Liars. And Whores. And Filth.
Who brought this upon us? Who defiled my homeland? I want to know. I
want them brought before me to kneel, and beg forgiveness.
"I think they just ran over a body. Haha."
This is terrorism.
Fie, you mother fuckers, fie. A THOUSAND TIMES FIE. I hope everyone
responsible for this burns eternally in hell, including all of you who stood by and said nothing.
My conscience is clean.
I remain Chumbawamba.
'America is a land of Cowards. And Liars. And Whores. And Filth.' F..K You!!!
Anytime.
Apache murderer reviewing his the aftermath of his bloodlust: "Look at all those dead bastards."
Gather your gold and keep it close. Build up your store of it. Do not let it escape your possession.
You will not be harmed by the conversion and will be able to convince them of your sincerity when you share a bit of it.
Use the rest to demonstrate your acceptance by purchasing a child bride.
If you want cheap oil you will have to kill and then kill some more and keep killing until there is little left.
To blame grunts for fulfilling our consumption desires is deeply flawed - we collectively have refused to invest a large proportion of our wealth in energy projects and energy efficiency programmes.
Our leaders or more accurately the men behind the curtain know that to keep their power base they will have to fulfill our cheap oil dreams.
Most of the imported oil comes from Canada. Last time I checked we weren't strafing them.
The middle east has 56% of world oil reserves. Only 16% of the world's oil reserves are in North America. 95% of the US transport fleet is dependant on liquid fuels.
Only about 30% of the world's oil reserves are conventional, easy to extract oil, most is found in the Middle East and Africa. The oil Canada has is unconventional, tar sands are extremely energy intensive and costly. For every unit of energy used in building facilities, extracting, refining, water use etc only two to three units of energy are returned i.e. the Energy Return on Energy Investment is 2-3:1.
While Iraqi oil is very easy to extract and it is in liquid form. Easier to purify, far less costly. EROEI could be as high 50:1. Iraq is though to have 115 Billion barrels of oil.
What people forget is that it's much easier and far less energy intensive to go for Iraqi oil then build huge rigs in the middle of the ocean to extract heavy oil that lies 2-3Kms deep.The infrastructure, pipelines, investment required is much greater.
remember the energy meeting oil maps that our Supreme Court ruled a secret
The difference in extraction costs go to the owners of the oil, not the consumer. That owner may be Chavez, a Canadian, a Saudi, a Nigerian, or maybe someone from North Dakota. It all costs the same at NY Harbor. Attempting to make the case as war for oil is nonsense.
Yet.
Folks, we have a bingo....
A quote from Major General Smedley Butler, USMC
"I helped make Mexico, especially Tampico, safe for American oil interests in 1914. I helped make Haiti and Cuba a decent place for the National City Bank boys to collect revenues in. I helped in the raping of half a dozen Central American republics for the benefits of Wall Street. The record of racketeering is long. I helped purify Nicaragua for the international banking house of Brown Brothers in 1909-1912. I brought light to the Dominican Republic for American sugar interests in 1916. In China I helped to see to it that Standard Oil went its way unmolested.
During those years, I had, as the boys in the back room would say, a swell racket. Looking back on it, I feel that I could have given Al Capone a few hints. The best he could do was to operate his racket in three districts. I operated on three continents.”
Oh yeah. Banking and corporate interests backed by military force. A self serving circle, throw politicians in there and you have the whole gang.
If they want this money spigot to keep flowing, maybe they should send that crew after Karzai. He's really started screwing the pooch. Course, that would be the CIA's job to replace er, terminate his contract.
Killing journalists was routine. Standard procedure.
Link on attacking al Jazeera:
http://www.wsws.org/articles/2003/apr2003/jaz-a09.shtml
Started in Kabul in 2001. Precision targeting. Took out a single-unit 2-story villa, very clearly marked.
April 8, 2003, aerial attack on suburban office for Baghdad. Killed correspondent Tariq Ayoub.
Same day a tank killed Reuters cameraman Taras Protsyuk, 35, a Ukrainian national, and Jose Couso, 37, who worked for the private Spanish television station Telecinco. These guys were in the Palestine Hotel, hardly a hotbed of resistance.
137 dead journalists. Counting....
Like killing w-o-g-s ??? Join the army.
I am ashamed.
Consider WWII, McNamara (Fog of War) said that U.S. killed at least 50%, and up to 75%, of the civillian residents of 67 cities with a population of 100,000 or more. 67 times 100,000 = 6.7 million people, @ the low end of 50% that is approximately 3.5 million civilians killed.
Better yet, consider the secondary target for the Fat Man bomb was the only christian enclave in Japan. In a flash the U.S. annilated 20,000 catholics.
Is the annihilation of 20k catholics supposed to make us care more?
A person is a person regardless of what god they want to believe or not believe in.
And just remember fsudirectory - every sperm is sacred
Think of all the little boys who didn't get molested.
Deplorable.
Any excuse to light people up with a 30mm cannon...oops, I mean "service targets with delivery systems."
When the command tells them you are the enemy, you too will be on Candid Camera.
I cannot describe my sadness...except with tears. I want to give this 5-stars but cannot condone killing innocents. Judgment will come. War or no war. Belief or no belief. Junk taken, Glitches or Bitches! It's all in the mind. Where's yours' been?
Keep It Up! Sordid Truth Needs Sorted!
ditto
This whole thread adds little to this economics website except acrimony. Poor choice to post it. This belongs on liveleak.com or somewhere else.
YOU ARE WRONG. War is for money. Money is for power. Power is for "them".
There is also a currentsea war being held. Welcome to WWIII, if you didn't know.
War is economics.
War is juice. You damage people while simultaneously giving them laws that attempt to confine and constrict their actions. You run a protection racket of "righteousness" and make them believe that if they were "truley" good people it wouldn't happen to them. Then you hide it behind a majority of events that counterintuitive the small populations experiences.
This is the reward punishment racketeering. You make people believe that if they do good things they will be rewarded. While simultaneously running a huge population who just takes without asking, throws you in prison if you resist them. Then the people who do good things and are then rewarded come to DEEPLY believe that they deserved the rewards they recieved. Then after you run it a while you do a massive switchover where wealth is righteousness, power is good, etc etc and run that as long as possible till it finally breaks down.
It's like lions setting up propaganda speaker systems that shouts. Do not run we are your friends. If you are truley good you will not be eaten. etc etc. You run it over and over and give them advice on how to handle the situation and the reasons it occured. You create a higher authority that will hold the lions responsible if the gazelles are just patient and wait for their super lion to raised out of the herd of gazelles. So just follow your intuition while it makes you right for a short enough burst for you to trust it and then off to the dinner table.
The video presents a tragic mistake. the men appeared armed and it was nearly impossible to see the kids in the van w/o highlighting and a close-up.
U.S. military personnel are not on the rampage to kill innocents and relative to all other times in world history take great pains to avoid these situations.
The loss of life is a terribly sad result for all involved.
The camera? Glasses for you.
trav7777 is correct. When the shtf here you too shall be strafed along with your children. You too will be branded as an insurgent because your pissed at the government and speak out. Then lets see how all is fair in love and war. Its always fair when you are on the side of the abuser and not the abused.
nm
All of this seemed quite within the rules of warfare.
The van (not ambulance) stopped by the bodies. According to the cockpit voice, I believe it was stated that the people from the van were picking up the bodies AND the weapons.
To say that (even with the cameras of today) that you could see children in the van or that the cameras did not appear as weapons is foolish. Even with a four by four digital screen zooomed in, you can't see shit for all the shaking.
Whether we should be there or not is a whole other argument.
But I would not fault anyone in that position to do what they did. I also imagine that if/when they found out about the children and reporters it would bother them tremendously.
"The van (not ambulance) stopped by the bodies. According to the cockpit voice, I believe it was stated that the people from the van were picking up the bodies AND the weapons."
From what I saw, the two guys from the van were only picking up the reporter, the only guy still alive. Any "weapon" they picked up would have been his camera.
All I know is when a van pulls up and a couple guys get out who clearly have no weapons and go and pick up a guy who's clearly seriously injured what's the need for shooting them all up?
A million were killed. A million were killed… and the United States government pulled the trigger.
All I know is that Obama DHS put in place a racial profiling twist to airport screening and my white male mid 20's self still managed to get the new xray machine at the airport yesterday, what gives?
Also, those damn machines take like 4 seconds to scan you and 60-120 seconds to get a confirmation back from the viewing room, pain in the ass.
Makes you proud to be an American. Killing innocent people, particularly women and children, it's the American way.
Those terrorist bringing their kids with them, they got what the deserved according to one of the soldiers, or murderers.
What kind of brainwashing has the American people and armed forces gone through to justify this kind of unbelievable behaviour?
@bpj
Well that maybe so but the whole USA / western imperium depends on this cursed material and would surely fall if the Persian spigot was turned off.
The simple facts of the situation speak for themselves - the 1970s should have been a wake up call but the western regimes of the 80s decided to accelerate the consumption rate further and now we are now at this sorry state of affairs.
On the micro level if you introduce war machines designed for the northern European battlefield into a civilian urban area the soldiers will respond as trained and kill en mass.
Although the troubles of northern Ireland was a tiny conflict and very different in many ways , the lessons are universal - the British establishment of that time were extremely reluctant to use extreme prejudice against the whole populace and it is generally recognized that the deployment of paratroop shock troops on the streets of Derry was a grave error.(The use of fast jets or gunships were only considered if there was a incursion of southern forces in the north) There method of infiltrating the IRA cells was far more effective
Even if all the terrible things alleged/evidenced here actually happened (according to the helpful narrative provided) it is worth keeping in mind that:
-The "number of military whistle blowers" who put together this video have staked out their position on the matter pretty clearly. Even if their motives are pure what if any additional, relevant video was left out and why?
-Would it have been helpful to you the viewer if this video contained even a little bit of background or larger context?
-One implication here is that "journalist" = selfless, disinterested angel. Is this fair? Are there any recent examples where some war zone journalists turned out to be a bit more than just journalists?
-Just because the vast majority of Americans consider it horrific to use children as a screen or shield in any type of warfare activity (or I should hope so anyway) doesn't mean that this is the worldwide norm. I'm not saying this is what happened here but it has been proven beyond the shadow of a doubt that when studying incidents like this from the Middle East assumptions along the lines of "oh, there are children close by, those guys can't possibly have hostile intent" simply should not be made.
-Even giving the guys in the Apache all possible benefit of the doubt (absent aditional info) it certainly looks like they could have made more of an effort to avoid the kids. However you see the soldier running around with the wounded girl on the ground as arrangements are made to get the hurt kids to a hospital. The narrator even frets that the girl will receive substandard care at an Iraqi hospital vs. the US military base - some things American really are better I guess. You don't see many pictures of foreign soldiers running around with the wounded children of their enemies. It's certainly not expected.
My first thought is how impersonal, disconnected and ruthlessly efficient the attack helicopter is at engaging a target.
My second thought is that the slight delay in getting clearance to fire on the van was what saved the children's lives.
The pilots had absolutely no doubt they were firing on the enemy. Yet even then they requested and waited for permission before each squeeze of the trigger. They very much wanted to shoot the wounded man but were waiting for him to pick up a weapon.
That heartens me in a way. Our soldiers will follow the rules when the lines are clear (wounded and not going for a gun, we didn't shoot). The chain of command is strong and unquestioned. That means better rules can lead to better outcomes. We are damn good at killing, which is all the more reason we should do all we can to make sure we kill the right people.
Oh, shut up.
He is chumbawamba.
lol
here's some more truth from our fine country http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eOAzbWtTJHg
Bates already said Waco was a righteous kill. Please refrain from anymore disturbance.
I hope every adult in America watches this video. I know that in your heart of hearts you know what is happening. Just like Law Wrench Summers knows what he is doing, just like the gods know what we are doing, you know what is happening. You are human and when you see your brothers die, when you see your sister's children die, no matter what color of their skin, you hurt. I know. I know the truth, and so do you.
Free yourselves! Stand up! We do not only not need war, it is killing the earth. Humanity is working over our mother.
How about shedding a tear?
This article made me very emotional.
The reason I did not junk anyone is because it is sad people do not know what is happening on the conscious level. BUT YOU KNOW! I KNOW YOU KNOW!
I will include a song, as it explains succinctly what happened, what is occurring, and the future of the world. Get ready....and for all of you who wanted to discuss "economics"....BUY FUCKING SILVER! Buy some fucking balls! Then go buy some fucking silver with your blood soaked doelarrs. Get this, the doelarr is the only reason you live in a country that has the ability to move onto other lands in the NAME OF WAR! Without the doelarr, the wars will not be funded. Your KING is DEAD. Good luck!
Immortal Tech Feat/ Mos Def and Eminem- Bin Laden:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wCEycZBHwzs&feature=related
NICE track, good find
We know that some "reuters" and some other
"reporters" have abandoned their vow of
neutrality and have chosen sides. Some
of these have been killed. They chose.
Its too early to tell with this one and
I'm sure that this will get heavy review.
I will say that nearly all past attempts
to gin up a My Lai Massacre redeux have
failed and our guys have been either
aquitted, had charges dropped, or had
charges substantially reduced due to
mitigating circumstances.
Yeah, it really helps when the guys that told you to go out and murder and rape innocent people are also those that judge you in your own court system. How convenient.
Seriously, I knew you were dense, bugs, but I didn't realize you were tungsten dense.
I am Chumbawamba.
"Gee, at 03:45 into the video, I clearly see one AK-47 and one RPG. If these two ‘reporters’ wish to embed with insergents, they assume responsibility for the consequences."
“If these two ‘reporters’ wish to embed with insergents, they assume responsibility for the consequences.”
"Likewise, don’t bring kids to a gunfight. It’s clear from the audio that they were only shooting at people they thought were armed. They would have left the wounded man alone, for example, UNLESS they saw evidence of his trying to use a weapon. The wounding of the 2 kids was unfortunate, but they were INSIDE THE VAN. Those in the helicopter clearly could not see who the van occupants were. Had the children been visible on the street, presumably care might have been taken to avoid them etc.
This is hardly the “smoking gun” that Wikileaks implies."
I didn't see an RPG, I saw a large telephoto lens and a head peering around the corner at the helicopter. The cameras were slung too tight under the armpit to be weapons, and had no barrels protruding above the shoulder of the cameramen. The something that might have been a weapon was far too long to be an AK-47, looked like a very long and old bolt action rifle, but was being carried like a walking stick and certainly not like a soldier or fighter would carry a rifle.
People are seeing what they want to see in the video. The grunts on the ground would know if there were weapons or not and the military is not going to let them talk.
I normally re-think my loyalty to ZH when articles not directly covering finance/econ are posted. But something like this is too much, you cannot ignore it.
I never for one second take for granted the benefit I have of viewing this situation from the limited scope of what I see on that video.
The only conclusion I can draw is we need to get the fuck out of there. There is no such thing is winning that war. Us citizens of the USA would never give up fighting, so why do we think they would? Whoever asked above 'when have you won?' is right. What constitutes winning this war? A loose definition politicians can vaguely outline is not good enough; a hard definition we will never achieve. We can't solve all the world's fucking problems. Dictatorships are horrible things but we can't go around toppling every single one. Soft power carries a powerful punch, and the US' soft power wanes more and more every single day. Our political system becomes more of a joke every year and eventually it will be replaced.
“We can’t go around toppling every single one …”
The U.S. militiary is in Iraq not to fight a war against Iraq, but as part of a larger effort to expand the U.S. empire, to control major oil production facilities and to fight a contininuing, never ending, military and political struggle against the enemies of the State of Israel. That’s why it is called a “war against terrorism” and why the belligerents who endanger Israel are called “terrorits.”
Iran, Syria and Muslim strong holds throughout the Middle East are the targets. For this effort, Zionist sympathizers in the United States, from AIPAC to the Israeli supporters in Christian churches, have incredible influence on the U.S. Congress and the Administration. Example: when Obama pretended to be cool to Netanyahu and Hilliary pretended to be angry concerning Israel’s new settlement plans in Jerusalem, a host of congressmen criticized them harshly. Yet, it has been part of U.S. policy to oppose additonal settlements in Palestine to help foster a peace plan. To understand polticial America’s posilton on this matter, one needs to look no further than last month’s words by the Vice President of the Untied States, Joe Biden, speaking at Tel Aviv Univerisity:
"Throughout my career, Israel has not only remained close to my heart but it has been the center of my work as a United States Senator and now as Vice President of the United States," Then he reminded listeners of his past words in a speech in the U.S.: “ I said were I a Jew, I would be a Zionist… you need not be a Jew to be a Zionist.”
Remarks by Vice President Biden: The Enduring Partnership Between the United States and Israel, Tel Aviv University
Here is how CounterPunch put it in Joe Biden’s Empty Desert. It begins:
Vice President Biden’s speech in Israel on March 11 sounded like an official American statement, providing absolute support to all the crimes committed by Israel. Biden’s speech was full of anachronisms aimed at polishing the image of Zionism tarnished by the blood of civilians, particularly children. Biden was not hypocritical like most Western politicians. He was candid and transparent.
In his speech, Biden said: “I had said in a speech in the United States some years ago for which I got some criticism, if I am not a Jew, I would be a Zionist. And it got a lot of national publicity, how could I say that, until I was reminded by my father you need not be a Jew to be a Zionist”. I do not know why the Vice-President should feel proud about being a Zionist and what are the achievements of Zionism that make Biden want to belong to it. Is it the displacement of millions of Palestinians from their homeland, Palestine, the incarceration of millions of others in the big prison called Israel, where they are subjected daily to ethnic cleansing and where their children, women and elderly killed and imprisoned?
There are 321 children imprisoned by Israel with the only charge against them being throwing stones at armed Israeli settlers who attacked their homes and neighborhoods, insulted them and killed their families. The people of Gaza are still suffering hunger, disease and poverty after a war described by all investigators as a crime against international humanitarian law. Nevertheless, Israel prevented even the EU foreign policy commissioner and others from visiting Gaza so that they do not see the real face of Israeli Zionism…
http://www.counterpunch.org/shaaban03162010.html
Alittle tough to watch, especially given the little bit that we know about who was on the ground.
Bad situation all around.
Alittle tough to watch, especially given the little bit that we know about who was on the ground.
Bad situation all around.
perspective
I volunteered back in '69, and I suppose it was inevitable, with the advances in technology, that the professional military would attract psychopathic killers who get their rocks off bombing defenseless countries from safe altitudes and lighting up distant targets on suspicion that they might be hostile.
Exactly as we see in the video, with giggles all around.
At least when posse comitatus is breached here at home we will know what we are dealing with.
As disturbing as that sounds, I partially agree. We are breeding a narcissistic, egotistical and jaded society that is as likely shoot you for fun as it is to try to load your wounded body into a van. This is happening right here in our cities - not just 'over there' in some sand-pit. I grieve for what we have become.
+1 These kinds of "policing actions" in which our troops are ordered to re-educate the Iraqi population at the point of the gun provoke the kind of cold hearted cynicism you see on the part of the helicopter crew. I blame the politicians.
But at the same time I did see a glimpse of the America I know and love in the form of two ordinary infantry riflemen who, once they arrived on the scene, each picked up a wounded child and ran with that child to the medics.
But then I heard the local commander deny the medivac and order that the children wait until Iraqi police could arrive. I now know why half of the West Point graduates quit when their mandatory post graduation service commitment is up.
The corruption of our military is proceeding apace. Perhaps this is one of the unspoken purposes of these wars of re-education.
"But at the same time I did see a glimpse of the America I know and love in the form of two ordinary infantry riflemen..."
You saw a glimpse of what any decent, caring human being from -any- country would have done.
So true. It's easy to be callous and cold when you're 1000s of feet in the air and squeezing a trigger and watching the show on a b/w monitor. We're breeding lots of kids just like that with the XBox and PS3. It's another thing to be face to face with a hurt child and find some compassion under your Kevlar. It's a very hard thing to balance when you're at war and can't trust anyone that's not on your side.
That's why I'll give the chopper guys some slack with the crass comments, because they probably just realized that they're not playing video games any more, and that they just wasted a bunch of living people. That tends to make you either cry, or get 'tough' and cover it up with macho speech.
"You saw a glimpse of what any decent, caring human being from -any- country would have done."
And this is what the men from the van were doing. We can argue all we want about what might have been in the van and the tactics used by the people the military is fighting, but based solely on this video, we see two unarmed men getting out, going to a wounded man and loading him into their van. Let's just imagine for a second that that picture is nothing more than what is shown. The gunner is then responsible for killing or injuring all the members of the van for what crime? For doing what any decent, caring human being from any country would do. With only what's in the video, it was murder. The only way to justify it is to go outside the video. Those who claim anything more based on this video alone have no case.
I think you can't even claim that the men from the van were decent and caring. Why were they there? Did they have weapons in the van? Were they going to take that wounded guy and interrogate and finish him off? Whose kids were in the van and were they being used as a human shield? To assume they were an "ambulance" or just passers by that came to help wounded people out of the goodness of their hearts is putting information where none exists. It certainly looks like just a family out for a drive that day who happened on this grisly scene and went to help - at least that's what the media wants you to believe. But I don't think you can assume that just from looking at the video.
It's amazing how, with our prejudices and preconceptions about God, war, military, Republicans, etc., that we can concoct these stories about what happened and then defend them with expletives and lots of f-bombs for those who disagree. You all should look at yourselves and really evaluate why you have so much hatred. I thought this crowd was more intelligent and rational than that.
I was thinking the same thing... how long before I get gunned down by a Cobra because I open carry a pistol... in a state that freely engages in open carry weapons...
sooner than you think.
well this is a breakdown in military discipline, the pilot describes the target as being armed, when in fact only some of the people are armed, groups of insurgents do not stand around, which should have been their first clue that this group may not have hostile intentions, but defensive.
the suspect with the rpg is seen only briefly and is not standing in the group? when they come under fire, not sure but suspect some of the armed people actually escaped. its entirely likely that in Iraq you arm yourself against attacks from rival militias. there was a bradley tank but it was quite a distance away.
the shooters are way too eager to shoot into a crowd of people, they are too aggressive shooting at wounded individuals while a man in a white coat is trying to evacuate the wounded man (something about shooting ambulance drivers in geneva (hahaha) rules comes to mind.
and far too much gloating over the results. these guys should be rotated out, they are out of control, and frankly i don't want them back into this country without some serious psychological evaluation.
this is further proof that the united states is controlled by blood thirsty murderers....
the bush crime syndicate has been doing this since the beginning of the war and has been aching to over turn geneva convention and other constraints on combattants.
bush and obama are murderers.
this film as absolutely accurate and correct. dickwad cheney has no doubt shown this with champaigne and caviar.
9/11 was a complete hoax fabricated by usa intelligence which destroyed three wtc towers using military grade nanothermite developed at sandia labs c. 2000...
al qaeda is a figment of daddy bush's and obama's evil minds.
www.ae911truth.org - watch the video.
this murder could not occur without the financing of the banksters who have openly called for the murder of whistleblowers and dissenters against this corrupt wicked regime.
it is time for regime change in amerika.
Fog of war and honest mistakes can explain shooting the men standing around. There is no way to explain shooting the men and van who were attending to the wounded. That is a war crime, plain and simple. Those who cover up and do not prosecute war crimes are criminals themselves.
If you wonder how terrorists are born, this is it. When previously honest people witness events like that, they become enraged.
"Neca eos omnes. Deus suos agnoset"
Folks:
Remember Vietnam and "Free Fire Zones"?
Back in the day, the "FFZ" was staked out geographically, and if it moved or breathed there, the ROE (Rule Of Engagement) was to kill it.
Helo gunships and napalm-carrying aircraft were the weapons of choice.
Different war, same tactic, same weapons..
Nothing Changes
Like investing, keep an open mind. You don't know what happened five minutes before this incident.
I would bet that a group of urban terrorists had just shot at contractors and or servicemen just prior to this helicopter attack. And I agree with other contributors,why were the journalists there? To aid Al Qaeda propoganda?
And yes, journalists are always targets by both sides.
The ranks are starting to speak. Is anyone listening to what is being said?
Unfortunately, killing begets killing. All "we" are doing here is creating the next wave/generation of suicide bombers hoping to blow the fuck out of a New York subway station (dang!), or an airliner, or cut the head off of a traveling American next time they venture forth overseas.
I sympathize and empathize with soldiers and military men. Say what we will however, these pilots were damn trigger-happy, and they were pretty keen to pull the trigger on what was very obviously a small group of men who were not showing any signs of aggression or hostility at all. Not everyone with a gun (or camera) is Al Qaeda.These boys will have to live with their actions, even though they got the "all clear" from above. They all will, we all will.
The only way to stop the violence is to stop the killing. Yes, damage has been done. Yes, we can withdraw and if we do, there WILL be more terrorist attacks/attempts and they MAY or MAY NOT succeed. It depends on how well we go from OFFENSE to DEFENSE. No one can hate you for defending yourself, but if you were in my country trying to kill me and mine, I'll fuckin die trying to eviscerate you before you ever get the chance. One must see it from the perspective of the "invaded" as opposed to the "invaders" (or should I say "crusaders"?)
We are all responsible for ourselves. That goes for soldiers, politicians, citizens. If we don't start with us, we truly are fucked.
That is truely sickening. I still love this country - although it is getting harder to do with each passing day, and I generally respect the military - I actually served in the Marines for 4 years - but that is just wrong. We should not be there. Is it really any wonder the U.S. has lost so much respect around the world given our recent actions. Going to be a sad day when what goes around comes around
Negative karma is gona b a bitch.
what goes around comes around
Sow ==> Reap
I recall many years ago being upset by some action of the isreal defense force.
when I mentioned it to my father (who had been in combat) he asked me:
Have you ever been surrounded by people attempting to kill you?
I answered: NO
He then said: "then shut the fuck up"
There are no easy answers. I am very upset we went in, decided to nation build, etc.
I know we were lied to by our government about the reasons for going in. At the same time things like this will happen. If my ass was in danger I'd prefer you take their lives over mine. So I think the question has to be why are we there? not how awful this is.
I am concerned that our government does cover up the human tragedy of what is going on in order to maintain support for the war. But as long as we have boots on the ground and the battle field is asymetric warfare. this will keep happening and you should expect it to happen. That is the essential nature of conflict. So we must ask ourselves is it worth it, why are we there, etc.
Oh, really? The guys in the helicopter were surrounded by people attempting to kill them?
You know what? Fuck you, and your dad. And of course the IDF.
I am Chumbawamba.
You are a douche bag.
You should have asked your father if anyone ever took a bulldozer to his house if he would surround and attempt to kill them.
makes for great recruitment fodder for terrorist wannabes.
Be it thousands or millions, how many innocent Iraqis die if the US does NOT invade? How many??? If you sociopathic apologists can't stand the responsibility of US actions, then get out of the pre-emptive, empirialistic kitchen.
This country needs a draft. NOW. Period. Whenever we go to war, renew the draft. The Dept. of Death's worst nightmare.
we've killed a lot more iraqi's, than saddams regime ever dreamed of. in fact the death toll under saddam was not high. he was suckered into kuwait, as they were stealing oil through horizontal drilling
That is a joke, right.
"Saddam did not kill very many." You mean by feeding them directly to lions, I suppose. Or building a road and paving over them. Maybe you did not find it to be too many that went through the shreaders? It does all add up when you include the firing squads though. IIRC, it was about 150,000 a year, not counting the wars.
Judging from the polarity of the posters here: When the SHTF in the USA ZH'ers who I would think would find unity in standing against the squid won't. Perchprsm will become some sort of latter day american Abakumov - resident torturer murderer of the Sukanova prison. Others will become willing assistants. Many others the inmates.
The arguements are getting tedious.
There are clearly two guys with RPGs in addition to the two guys with cameras. The question is: can/should you disaggregate each member from the group or does one bad RPG-carrying apple spoil the whole bunch?
More of a rhetorical question, but this video is terrible PERIOD. The 'fog' of war is responsible for all manner of regrettable atrocities.
On war: "The only winning move is not to play." -- Joshua, War Games
No offense, but how did my comment get junked? Care to explain?...
...Although this is the king of thread where every other comment gets junk voted depending on what side of the aisle its on. Free speech: Let's take advantage of it and not burry it.
Because you make a specious argument. The question is: should we be over there in the first place? The answer is clearly no.
I am Chumbawamba.
Chumba,
Like I says, "The only winning move is not to play." (which is the non-specious sentence above).
Thanks.
Senior U.S. official confirms authenticity of video posted by WikiLeaks.org showing U.S. attack on Iraq civilians - AP
Of course it's authentic. And at 2mins 50 seconds you can clearly see the jihadi pointing his (no it's not a camera!) RPG at the Apache from a crouch position behind the corner of a wall. The whole lot of them get wiped out, that's war, and good riddance.
This story should run in the National Enquirer.
According to John Young from http://cryptomeorg.siteprotect.net , wikileak.org is funded by CIA...
this posted on lew rockwells site
"
From a reader in LA comes this account at a debate of his debate with a soldier who claimed he was defending our freedoms.
Awesome. Thanks for posting that.
I am Chumbawamba.
From Wikipedia:
Chumbawamba doesn't mean anything. At the time we formed (early '80s) there was a rush of bands with obvious names. It was the time of ‘peace punk' and you couldn't get across a youth club dance floor without bumping into a Disorder, a Subhumans, a Decadent Youth or anAnthrax t-shirt. We liked the sound of Chumbawamba because it wasn't nailing ourselves down. Thatcher On Acid were a good band but it's lucky for them that Thatcher stayed in power for 11 years. If her influence had only lasted 18 months Thatcher On Acid's sell-by date would have come and gone a lot sooner. We wanted a name which wouldn't date.
Great post boiow !
I'm a Vietnam vet and worked for the military as a civilian for almost 20 years.
It sickens me to see the military romanticized and fawned over, and we do it at our peril.
The military is a necessary EVIL. It's an organization that brutalizes its memebers to make them as heartless as possible, so they can kill others.
Thankfully the moonbats still have the right to post here also with their Truther crap.
The video is disturbing. Sadly this is what happens in the new kind of warfare the world is engaged in against us and with us.
This will happen on our soil before it is all said and done.
You gotta be shitting me. Guys like you masturbate to the prospect of a terrorist attack. You love it, you foment it.
I foment Islamofascist terror?
Congrats on a perfect demonstration on what happens when West Virginians inbreed and shit their young out into society.
You are part of the problem, believing in the most retarded crap in the world and unable to exist in a world of FACTS.
I foment Islamofascist terror?
You **ARE** the face of fascist terror.
BTW, before you start with the barking moonbat from west virginia crap I am a lifelong republican in Oklahoma.
excuse me... but your avatar does resemble what johngalt described you as.
Bragging about being a Republican from Oklahoma means nothing. It indicates the ability to add the digits on your hand and total your IQ.
If you do not understand the threat from Islamic radicalism you are too dumb to live.
Quit wasting valuable air and bandwidth, please.
unfortunately, it was the cia, that fanned the flames, of militant islamo/fundamentalism. this is called blowback.when you hit a nest of hornets, with a stick, first, you don't get to condem them, for going on the offensive
You will find more reasonable commentary here at Free Republic. I linked back to ZH this pm.
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2487171/posts
The U.N.. World Bank.. IMF.. have never done the world wrong...
This is a terrible situation, but it appears from my completely uninformed eyes that those two journalists were embedded in some sort of militia, the ones that are fighting against the US. Although the soldier misidentified the camera as a weapon, I thought I saw an AK-47 and some sort of missile launcher.
Meanwhile, I found the actions of the American soldiers to be very by-the-book and restrained, not firing until they had permission, etc.
It's tragic about the children, but based on what I've heard, it's crazy in Iraq and they have no choice but to act in this manner. If you don't want to get shot, don't carry guns, and don't hang around people who carry guns.
#1 We don't know who the other people were, they could have been local police, local security, shop owners carrying guns to protect themselves and their property, village idiots, locals the reporter asked, "Hey where can I get some good, non-ironic, shots?", etc.
#2 The only reason we know about this incident at all is because one of those journalists made a phone call to another journalist telling him where he was.
#3 HURR
We should recall when Americans were once the political dissidents, utilizing whichever unconventional tactics we found effective in a one sided war with a world power.
The more American "terrorists" that were killed, the more determined we were to repel the aggressors.
The empathic/sociopath part of the brain(right above right ear) of these bank and warfare minions is easily manipulated and rendering them effectively lobotomized MK Ultra fighters/warmonger whores for hire.
http://funy1.blogspot.com/2010/03/are-us-political-puppets-preparing.html
The controller minions brain wash their puppets and their citizens easily via the MSM.
Eventually, one of the wars that these carnal cretins always want to start will partake in their end and the end of the Pagan star of Moloch Abomination of desolation curse that is an intended holocaust of the planet and its people.
http://funy1.blogspot.com/2010/02/star-of-chiun-on-syrian-palace-floor-o...
War is a profit making racket. If the Military industrial complex had instead been the food industrial complex, we'd be complaining about record world obesity as a byproduct of these profit at all cost zealots.
The behavior exhibited by the heartless soldiers is the low level intellect opposite end result of the fascist system of assimilation.
http://funy1.blogspot.com/2010/04/bullying-in-america-byproduct-of.html
Jesus Christ. Most of the posters on this site are fucking pussies.War is the natural state of man. Eat or be eaten.
-1 doesn't mean it has to be, carl, if you vote for war, that's what you get. idiot.
you are nothing but raw sewer.
You people are fish food. Do you think a lion worries about who she eats? Keep up your lame belief system and watch your children get consumed by predators.
+1 dogbreath. Probably the most poignant comment in this entire thread. Just goes to show how deeply woven the animalistic instinct of "us against them" could be used by the squid on EVERYONE. Even the ZH community isn't immune to it. Do some research on the Stanford Prison Experiment. It is pretty easy to do some terrible things to your "enemy" when you treat them as lesser than yourself, whether your enemy be the Squid, Sheeple, Iraqis, Jews, Palestinians, Blacks, Protestants, Yankees, Red Sox, etc., etc.
I would love for my fellow men and women to treat each other as the brothers and sisters that we all are. No wars, no murder, no theft, but then I'd be confusing the world that should be with the world that is. It's never going to happen people.
I think the sanitized worldview that us "civilized" westerners grow up with skews our thought process. When was the last time you killed another living being to feed yourself? You go to the grocery store and pick up your meal and think, isn't this swell? Anybody up to play a game of Buzkashi? Life is messiest thing around; we just happen to be at the very top of the food chain. Male chimpanzees form gangs to roam their territory and will kill any outsider that happens to cross their path. We would like to think we're pretty smart and have outgrown such barbaric tendencies, but as this post has shown, when it comes down to it, we're just a bunch of really aggressive monkeys with big brains. We'd like to think we're not, but unfortunately, we are.
No wonder they hate us.
What are you, some kind of narcissist? if you care what people think about you, you're a fucking pussy,
9/11 = inside job. They earned trillions of dollars that day.
9/11 = inside job. They earned trillions of dollars that day.
We know that the Pentagon pays shills to shit out blog propaganda comments. Can you find them on this thread?
I get 10c a post but the money comes from a CIA front company called Goldman Sachs.
what the fck happened to this country??
Making the world safe for democracy.
whose democracy?