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In 53-42 Vote, Wisconsin Assembly Gives Final Passage To Bill Stripping Collective Bargaining Rights; Politicians Get Death Threats Over Imminent Austerity
After yesterday the Wisconsin Senate passed the controversial Union Bargaining Bill, using a surprising loophole, resulting in a Union occupation of the Capitol building, the next formality before its enactment has just taken place: the Wisconsin Assembly has just given final passage to the bill, meaning just the signature of Governor Walker is all that is needed at this point, something which will surely happen in the next few hours. And after earlier the Obama administration expressed its disappointment that Wisconsin managed to find this legislative loophole, thereby making the farcical taxpayer funded self-exile of the state democrats all for naught, we are confident the president will be making the teleprompted rounds imminently.
From AP:
Wisconsin lawmakers have voted to strip nearly all collective bargaining rights from the state's public workers in one of the strongest blows to the power of unions in years.
The state's Assembly passed Republican Gov. Scott Walker's explosive proposal 53-42 Thursday. The state's Senate approved it the night before after using a procedural move to bypass its AWOL Democrats.
Walker says he'll sign the legislation as quickly as possible.
The vote brings a swift end to a standoff over union rights that has rocked Wisconsin and the nation. Tens of thousands of protesters have converged on the state's Capitol for weeks of demonstrations.
The implementation of Walker's proposal will be a key victory for Republicans who have targeted unions amid efforts to slash government spending.
In the meantime, as Karl Denningers highlights, social decay is propagating after Wisconsin politicians receive the following death threat:
Please put your things in order because you will be killed and your familes will also be killed due to your actions in the last 8 weeks. Please explain to them that this is because if we get rid of you and your families then it will save the rights of 300,000 people and also be able to close the deficit that you have created. I hope you have a good time in hell. Read below for more information on possible scenarios in which you will die.
WE want to make this perfectly clear. Because of your actions today and in the past couple of weeks I and the group of people that are working with me have decided that we've had enough. We feel that you and the people that support the dictator have to die. We have tried many other ways of dealing with your corruption but you have taken things too far and we will not stand for it any longer. So, this is how it's going to happen: I as well as many others know where you and your family live, it's a matter of public records. We have all planned to assult you by arriving at your house and putting a nice little bullet in your head. However, we decided that we wouldn't leave it there. We also have decided that this may not be enough to send the message to you since you are so "high" on Koch and have decided that you are now going to single handedly make this a dictatorship instead of a demorcratic process. So we have also built several bombs that we have placed in various locations around the areas in which we know that you frequent. This includes, your house, your car, the state capitol, and well I won't tell you all of them because that's just no fun. Since we know that you are not smart enough to figure out why this is happening to you we have decided to make it perfectly clear to you. If you and your goonies feel that it's necessary to strip the rights of 300,000 people and ruin their lives, making them unable to feed, clothe, and provide the necessities to their families and themselves then We Will "get rid of" (in which I mean kill) you. Please understand that this does not include the heroic Rep. Senator that risked everything to go aganist what you and your goonies wanted him to do. We feel that it's worth our lives to do this, because we would be saving the lives of 300,000 people. Please make your peace with God as soon as possible and say goodbye to your loved ones we will not wait any longer. YOU WILL DIE!!!!
Forget Saudi days of rage: you take away some entitlements right here in our own back yard and civil war may soon break out...
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there is no real world in which Union=good; or Union=bad.
Coercion is always bad. As long as unions (like corporations) use the government to obtain benefits which they could not obtain voluntarily they will be bad. Workers have a right to bargain collectively but they should not have a "right" to force either private or public employers (taxpayers) to overcompensate them for services rendered.
as a fellow magnet, i'm here to tell you to wake the fuck up.
because people like you who are too fucking blind to see what's really going on in this country have and will continue to enrich and enable these corrupt motherfuckers (politicians red and blue) to fuck you and all of us up the ass.
so stop antagonizing your fellow americans and fight the ones who are really fucking you..and your mother, your wife, sister, son, daughter, etc, etc.
I've been going after the banking cartel hard since 2007 when I joined the Ron Paul Presidential Campaign
by treemagnet
on Thu, 03/10/2011 - 17:00
#1038114
"In the rush to pass this ..." Seriously? The liberals were hiding out for three weeks in Il. Ignored any offer of compromise, and are basiscally pissed they didn't read the rules of the game. But court she is a goin' for sure.
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Thank!! God!!!
The Unions in Wisconsin are almost Dead!
All of our problems are solved!!
This event will stop the Bankers from Robbing the Country Blind of Trillions of Dollars a year!!!
When the house is being robbed, it is not a good time to Paint Abortion Signs or Union Bust.. we should be dealing with the larger problems at hand..
Ahhhhhh.. never mind.. Unions, Danzig Wiff Da Starz and / or Jerry Springer... its all the same thing.
Broker Union Workers in Wisconsin are NOT! the Problem.. Trillions of Dollars and Bank Bonuses that could have paid for the Union plus! Plus!! PLUS!!! thats the fucking problem people!
Wake the FUCK! UP!! PEOPLE!!!
The problem is, you fail to wrap your mind around the fact that this is a public union issue. The significant issue is not about banksters (who I fucking hate), but rather that nobody is looking out for John Q Public's interests. Private unions have somebody worried about the ability to pay the demands. Public unions have blank checks that the public is committed to until theres no money (see also:Illinois, California, New Jersey). Get it? The fox is locking up the chicken coop....see a conflict? This issue is not red/blue, this is public issue and affects everybody - even those who can't handle the increased demands cities/towns/municipalities/states,etc. place on them to just shut the fuck up and pay.
You may really believe that you thought this up yourself.
But consider momentarily the possibility that the banksters (who you fucking hate) put this on your agenda. They have far more to fear from unions than you do.
Fighting over the last cookie, this is.
Fighting over the last cookie, this is.
And for all of us anarchist viewers at home it's a beautiful thing to watch.
Amen, Mr. Crockett .
At the rate this mess is falling apart, we may be halfway through the rebuild juuust about the time my kids are ready to begin their careers.
FWIW, I'm not 100% anarchist... but pretty close.
#1038406
I no more believe I thought that up for myself than I think I came up with 2+2=4 The fact is the fact, regardless of its origin. And no, when it comes to public unions, we all lose. Private unions - yeah, thats another problem altogether. So what exactly is your point? Did I miss something clever encoded in your little missive or are you some little wordsmith taking it out for a spin.
I'll just get right to the point.
When there's no money left, should the states screw the public employees, or should they screw the bondholders?
This game is about demonizing the former, to better the latter's chances.
I'm amazed at how well it's working so far.
all the fraud/PONZI Bank idiots can all go to hell. I really don't think this is about High Finance.
OUR RETARDS IN THE FEDERAL GOVT PISSED AWAY TRILLLLLLLLLLIONS.
Big F'n Deal about millions. Give it to them. PRINT BENNY YOU PHCKIN BITCH.
Just give them they're dreamshot. The US GOVT PISSED AWAY ANY CHANCE YOUR KIDS/GRANDKIDS EVER HAD.
Excellent Tree dude
those who can't handle the increased demands cities/towns/municipalities/states,etc. place on them to just shut the fuck up and pay.
-EXTORTION AT THE BARREL OF A GUN
I agree JW n L that the bankers are the problem however the government unions are a problem because they don't give a rats ass when they are being bought off essentially.
The Unions in Wisconsin are almost Dead!
All of our problems are solved!!
-----------------------------------------------------------
Now that the union problem is solved we need to get on to the minimum wage problem. I'm sick of being forced to pay more for the things I have to buy just to support some lazy leech who thinks they have a right to suck off my money. Fuck em, cut the minimum wage back to a buck and a half an hour. Face it leeches your 7 buck an hour job is done. I'm sick of only having enough money to buy one six pack of beer a week. Hey dude, I went to get a new video game for my x-box the other day and they were so expensive I could only get one. Something has to be done, these leeches who make this shit are getting paid too much of my money. The crap they make is bad too. My Ho threw my x-box out the window and that piece of crap busted when it hit the sidewalk. Do you know that 80% of x-boxes will break if thrown out the window? What kind of shit is that? Fuck em, let's not stop at a buck and a half let's lower it all the way down to fifty cents an hour. That's all those sorry incompetent leeches deserve.
IS THIS WHAT IS MEANT BY
Fundamental transformation of our society?
Unions are not exempt from the lower standard of living that everyone in this country will be subject to.
Fuck em. Its just greedy unions. We all know there isn't money to pay for their healthcare, pensions, raises. The private sectors workers who pay taxes into this arent getting any help.
That's right. The money isn't there. Simple mathematical fact. All that they have been promised, they will *not* be paid. That's not a policy position or an opinion, just truth.
Same thing is true on a national level with Social Security, Medicare, and all the other entitlements. It won't happen simply because it can't.
Exactly *how* the default plays out is the questions. We're seeing a little taste of it now in WI.
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Anger as JP Morgan bankers get $10bn pay and bonus pot
http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2011/jan/14/jp-morgan-bankers-share-10bn
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JP Morgans Bonus Checks could float Wisconsin’s Budget Issues for Years, including the Unions monies. With just this years Bonus Monies
You think the Union is expensive? really? are you sure thats the Problem? I know you dumb fucks in Wisconsin marry your sister and stuff.. but it really is simple math that I am asking you to do, even a genetic defect can add and subtract.. or so I would hope!
Good point, JW. I think this is a real issue going on in WI. It's a real fiscal issue and a real moral issue, so it matters. But you're right: these numbers are chump change compared to the bigger issues. The unions are a problem. But yes, there are bigger problems.
Not to mention the trillions that have gone missing, the trillions that are being paid to bomb other countries, the many millions that are being stolen through flip that bond. Etc.
All of that money was looted from individual Americans. It would be wonderful if those thefts had not taken place and if similar crimes were not committed against us in the future. But it makes no sense to say that the money stolen by banks and arms merchants should be given to some other special interest groups like unions and public workers instead.
greedy unions? really? unlike those productive and modest members of our society in DC and wall street?
Actually corrupt DC politicians, bailed-out Wall Street fat cats, and Win-at-any-cost Union Bosses all have a lot in common. It's the rest of the country that gets screwed.
Yes; the ninety percent of the population that doesn't get whatever they want and whatever they can think of to ask for next; is not represented in the bargaining between the state and the public employee union; they are taxed but they have no representation. The Wisconsin initiative is wonderful and needs to spread; our idiot Socialist Maximum Leader is never going to be any help to the working people in this country; so it will have to be fixed by the states one at a time. Somewhere along the line that great idiot may hear the voice of the people and start reducing the huge increases in useless Federal employees that he has instituted; as his version off "smaller government".
sounds like another show - obamacare.
How many in Wisconsin were out in the Street with signs against the Bankers Bonus Monies?
so the really big number?? gets a pass?? but the Union?? get all this media fan fare??
You all must be right, it is just me being concerned with the larger problem.. that is being completely fucking ignored and played down..
My bad, Carry on.. at least a few more months before you will be forced to think about it..
All is well, food stamps for all!!! Banker Bonuses, just for the few.. Sorry.
So? It goes to court, if Repubs lose, they go back, give a 2 hour notice or whatever the law requires and do it again.
"Deemed to have passed" on Christmas Eve ring any bells?
Yeah! Yahoooo! Power to the people - no, not those people....us people. Feel free to junk me repeatedly - but at least post!
Yeah, I'm surprised to read all the pro extortion union talk on all of the places but ZH. Anyways....
Especially since the collapse of the dollar is imminent. That there is [NO] undoing that fate. If everyone seemed to be on that same page, like I assumed from reading the forums thus far, then I do not understand the discussion taking place about unions now. It seems fruitless. I sense political ideologies battling it out here.
The system is dead. The vultures are picking away at the carcass
Buy silver... bitchez!
On to Ohio and New Jersey!
Miami's Alvarez might be recalled n an upcoming election.
People coming to their senses? If so, is it still too late?
People have the right to bargain, that is the first Amendment. I have the right to ask for a wage, whether somone will pay it or not. And if there are others like me then I can form a union. The State does not tell the people what the can want. The State tells nobody what they should think.
I know, some unions are overpaid and corrupt, but this is not the thing. The thing is that everyone has the right to bargain. Take that away and we are really without rights and liberties.
You should take a moment to read the First Amendment before commenting on what is in it.
I have the right to say whatever I want, and if you do not agree with me I can work for someone other than you, or, I can choose not to work at all. A union is just a group of people sharing a common interest. Collective bargaining is freedom of speech.
Union collective bargaining still has about as much to do with freedom of speech as the Federal Government has to do with the Constitution.
Unions exist to serve Union bosses and the machine. It is all about membership, dues, and getting more employees on the job to pay more dues.
The rhetoric coming from both sides on this debate has been over the fucking top.
DISCLOSURE: Am a card carrying, dues paying union member.
I think each individual person has the right to form their own union, and then run their union. I see no reason why if corporations can be persons, persons can not be unions. What if you could have your own asking price, and so could everyone else. The union would be competing with millions of other unions and force the corporation to pay more. This would do away with minimum wage, which is fascist anyway. Fuck it, if we got this going, we could each be our own State. Fuck the rules of the corptocracie of the world! They set no decree. People do. We do what we want.
Soon you will only have the right to stfu and take what crumbs you are given.
Wow. I am a union member (at the point of a gun) and I can tell with out a doubt, that my union serves itself, not its members.
Why don't private sector unions simply purchase the means of production? If the owners of the factory are terrible people who exploit the workers and add no value then why wouldn't the union simply buy their own factory? Unions have very deep pockets and could certain do this. But they don't.
Same here. I attempted to quit the union one year and was pressured 'heavily' not to leave. I left it alone, eventually getting out of it.
I do not agree with the Unions present day purpose.
*no longer part of the Unions, since 2003
"The rhetoric coming from both sides of this debate has been over the fucking top."
Too right Colonel, it's kinda like watching starving dogs rip each other to shreds in the midst of a burning house.
Only a few here have taken the time to point out the fact that the problems are systemic. Luckily, for the few with the foresight to prepare, systemic collapse is already baked into this cake.
"Collective bargaining is freedom of speech." -
No it's not. It falls under State Rights voted on by the State Legislature, which can be recinded or enacted at any time. It has zero to do with The First Amendment.
I have the right to speak. I have the right to assemble. If I want something, I will ask. If you do not accept, if you do not give me what I would like, then I am breaking it off or I renegotiate. Bargaining is the right to form a union and ask for something.
If you have the right to form a union, then I have the right to break it. Fair enough??
http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/data/constitution/amendment01/12.html
and then
http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/29/151–169.html
then
http://www.employerlawreport.com/2011/03/articles/labor-relations/ohio-senate-passes-massive-reform-to-public-sector-collective-bargaining-law/
then
http://books.google.com/books?id=EjYuJHUUaV8C&pg=PA65&lpg=PA65&dq=atkins+vs.+city+of+charlotte&source=bl&ots=UU7UD_gRrs&sig=-FtQ2PReDrxKWtWEw2MU-NjFRK8&hl=en&ei=SzNtTYHpHMfqgQeH_dChAw&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=4&ved=0CCgQ6AEwAzgK#v=onepage&q&f=false
I have the right to speak. I have the right to assemble.
No one in Wisconsin has lost those rights. It's the binding arbitration which is rightfully going out the window. But folks can band together and chant as much as they want. No problem.
lennon what do you think about people that are forced to join the union even though they may not want to? I guess they have no rights.
Collective barganing is freedom of speech
Freedom of Speech requires Freedom of Response
For 50 years the response to collective barganing has been give them more or they will go on strike and nobody wants a strike
Now the response is we can't give you any more because we are broke
Ask the Union to pay you. They are your bosses. They give you work rules. They tell you when to march. What ave they done with your dues?
My freedom of speech as the taxpayer who pays your exorbitant salary and "benefit package"
TRUMPS EVERYTHING YOU HAVE TO SAY BECAUSE I'M YOUR BOSS
Public employees have no right to unionize. Public employees have a right to leave and find employment elsewhere.
They have a right to quit, too, if they don't get a fair bargain. So, quit.
That is about as good an argument as saying if you aren't happy with America then leave.
Seriously?
Quit, well, I think it would be best if no one paid an income tax, but I also know the dollar is not a valid investment. Being that the interest pays for the dollar itself makes the whole scheme redundant, or for a lack of a better term, a ponzi. Yet ponzi would imply that there was something to base the whole scheme off, and then there is the gold. Will the Fed get away with Fort Knox? Stay tuned, while people cry over promised pensions and argue free speech "rights".
Free espeech is a god given right by the way and I can say what I want. So for everyone who does not understand, the State of Wisconson just ruled against the Constitution.
l o v e it or l e a v e it † that is what they want you to believe, jimi. hell no, we say!
+1
The State of Wisconsin did not vote against the Constitution; you are unable to think clearly. They voted against 90% of the population being victimized by an in-sincere and un-real bargaining process that "gives away the store".
What store? The dollar store? Fuck the dollar store. The dollar was given up a long time ago. People should just all form a union and tell the Fed to fuck off.
We know the dollar is most likely toast, that said you find it fair for public unions to pass through dues to those they" bargain" with i nthe form of contributions? You have no problem with that? Form a Union and tell the Fed to fuck off, okay you first I will watch. BTW, I junked you for failure to think deeper than a mudpuddle..
IQ 145, AND PROVES IT
Why were you junked for this?
YEAH! QUIT!!! so that we can ship your jobs to china!
You sound to me like someone whose never made payroll to union workers and put up with work rules no company other than a mega firm can deal with effectively. You simply don't get your moneys worth when your payroll is unionized - pure, plain, and simple. And lastly, the laws of economics don't revolve around right, liberties, and such. Nobody - including yourself, gives a shit about some chinese worker - we just want it cheaper. Wheres the union members (not the union) attitude on this? Everytime they show a clip of the parking lot at a union plant (auto or otherwise), I see lots of non-union brands parked.
By your argument, then we shouldn't complain about the jobs that get sent overseas. Right? I mean chasing cheap labor seems to fit into your description.
exactly thats what you get without bargaining rights, or some other form of mediation.... unions are like balancing out the foolishness from the other side of the table, the board of directors, and their cost-cutting-fantasies.
but what happens when they collaborate against the workforce, which is happening here in germany.... well, lets see how that plays out - combined with a slowdown in our exports to china, which I expect to come by this year......
If business owners and managers are fools then why don't the unions simply purchase their own means of production?
Cut to the quick, bravo..
"unions are like balancing out the foolishness from the other side of the table, the board of directors"
When you are talking about government employee unions, the other side of the table, the board of directors are the taxpaying citizens, not some greedy corporate board. When public employee unions negotiate contracts, the politicians that they are negotiating with are receiving campaign contributions from the unions. Just who in the hell is representing the taxpayers??....Anyone??
it isnt the citizen, it is their REPRESENTATIVE
dont confuse those things in order to discard my argument.... and I AM saying there are looters, got it? but they are all around - and when you look at walker, you know who is the crazy guy here....it not the unions, but that will be pretty obvious when its too late....
EDIT:
maybe you have to reinvent the unions, which may require destroying them at first, but when they are gone they will be missed by even their enemies, as moderatin is always better than plain force...
I agree
I don't understand why you would interpret it that way. All unions operate on pure hypocrisy - the very same that I do. I want to make the most and pay the least. I come out and say it - they wrap it up in Americana and jam this bullshit down an unsuspecting publics throats. Collective bargaining is an abuse of power. With unions, theres no price discovery - if you agree the housing market bubble was based on bullshit (homes only increase in value) then surely you must see that labors value varies. Collective bargaining doesn't allow for reality.
Price discovery? Well then, we need to do away with minimum wage.
Listen, I'm not a union supporter. And yes, the value of labor varies. But to take away the ability of the union to bargain (in the idea, I understand there are flaws) essentially neuters them. I can assure you, the other side of the table will not be faced with the same handicap.
Price discovery? Well then, we need to do away with minimum wage.
Yes, if you want to treat infirm and unskilled people fairly. It is easy to see that no employer will hire a worker who can not produce at least $7.25/hour if he is required to pay a minimum of 7.25/hour. Therefore, minimum wage laws make it illegal to for less productive people to work and deeply hurt elderly, infirm, inexperienced and unskilled workers.
Oh, and it was interpreted based on your comment about the laws of economics.
What the fuck are trying so hard to say confused? Now you got me confused!
I am not much for Unions, but what do you think a union is?? It is consolidated power.. Kinda like what the elite have. The elitist are a Union in and of themselves manipulating a market that has NO PRICE DISCOVERY. Look we are screwed.. but in the 1930s' the national guard was used to protect workers from their abusive employers. The entire western world has been fighting what we call austerity for years now, why is it that globilization has brought us all to a point of condeming the working class unilateraly across the board, public or private. Please just think outside of the box on who the villian really is. We should not promote laziness and irresponsible behaviour on workers, nor should we promote what i call the entitlements of the rich and famous to do as they damn well please with the lives of those that made them a fortune. The wealthy are now sociallist as all risk has been removed from their bank account to the Tax payer and the working men and women of this country and our Chinees proxies that work for us and kindly reduce our value on a pay scale.
go look at german unions, they do far better than those you seem to hate so much. They are mostly crowded by suckers who betray their people (=workforce) in exchange for some nice job in the senior management, where we have something called "Aufsichtsrat" - which in practice serves to one single purpose: to reward accomplices within the company, or politicians, or those union guys....
now is that what you'd like better?
the point that I want to make is that you need some form of mediation, whether you call it unions or whatever. problem is, like political parties, they get infected with what the great Francisco d'Anconia called "looters". But these looters are all around the place, even in the workforce itself, theres one third that usually gets nothin done, isnt it?
I know, beaucracy sucks. I have worked with unions. I do not like most unions. i think that beacracy sucks. but the fight is not against the freedom of speech, it is with finance. it is with economics. the fight is against monetary policy. Attention needs to be focused. Energy needs to be harnessed. Buy silver, end the Fed, do not worry about austerity, take the monie back!
J hope you just solved the biggest problem of America. It's not financial sector (40% of GDP), wars probably 10-15% (or more) of GDP, the problem are the unions which are about 10% of all employed. They are the only people who still come to your business to get hair cut or see some strippers. After everybody gets proper wages, equal to Chinese workers, there will be nobody to use your service industry. Talking about parking lots, are you trying to blame union for quality or design of your cars? The same guys can make Hondas or BMW, isn't it? So be patriotic and buy Chrysler!
People have a right to free speech and a right to assemble. They don't have a right to demand any employer bargain with them as a group. States have "laws" requiring that, and states can also get rid of "laws" requiring it. It never was a "right" so no "right" was ever taken away.
They don't have a right to demand any employer bargain with them as a group.
Just to let you know, you're arguing basic freedom with people who have absolutely no problem telling someone with whom they must associate (ie, force them to join a union) if they happen to go to work in a "union shop".
Good luck with that.
Disagree. People have the right to assemble and the right to speak freely, but they do not have the 'right' to bargain collectively. Anything that is a 'right' does not confer obligation on another party. A group of people can speak and demand anything they want, but you cannot force their employer to negotiate with them.
There are laws that permit collective bargaining and I have no problem with this in the private sector (public sector is another matter), but I simply don't believe that bargaining is a 'right'.
EDIT: The death threat thing (if true) is ridiculous, I don't care which side you're on. Absolutely no place for that and I hope anyone on any side that pulls crap like that is punished to the full extent of the law.
Freedom of speech plain and simple. Look, we assemble, then we speak, we decide, we bargain. You got a problem? We will do something else. Something new. Something we want to do. Get monie, buy silver bitches.
I don't see it as freedom of speech. You (or any group) has the right to speak freely. But you cannot force somebody else to listen. That's what bargaining does: it forces the employer to bargain with the employees. They can't just say 'no' or walk away from the speaking group. We have laws for bargaining and I'm not suggesting we change them, but in my mind, it's just not a right.
Then people will strike. Let us see who wins that one. Too bad the reward will be priced in dollars.
on Thu, 03/10/2011 - 18:15
#1038512
Then people will strike. Let us see who wins that one. Too bad the reward will be priced in dollars.
Freedom of speech? You mean like the death threats against the Republicans? Just another example of why I have utter contempt for union thug fucktards.
I think you are on the right track! Just disband all political parties too, they should not have the right to monoplize life of the nation.
We could declare church and still not be blashphemous at this point, to get away from the fascist oligarch bankers.
chunkylover: is not the right to bargain collectively the ultimate free market? If I join with my brothers and bargain collectively to get a higher price for my labor, is this not the free market at work? The Chamber of Commerce is a union of Businesses and nobody wants to take away their right to influence elections and be heard but I can't join a union and bargain for my labor? Chunky get real!
If I join with my brothers and bargain collectively to get a higher price for my labor, is this not the free market at work?
Yes. And you still have the right to do that. So what's you're problem?
It's always the right time to come to your senses; "On to Ohio and New Jersey; God I hope so.
Thank God. A step in the right direction. They should have a nice statue of that governor.
so true
While some compare the action in Madison to the rebellions and protests in the Middle East, it's more like Greece. Public sector employees who can't understand the change forced upon them by insolvent governments. They must believe that the money actually comes from the government and is unlimited in supply. Wait a minute. I think i just described the Bernank. I guess Madison is just like D.C.
The teet is just about sucked dry.
Oh, that I live to see the day when all this nonsense stops and the AMERICAN LEFT gets their asses, COLLECTIVE ASSES of course handed to them COLLECTIVELY.
Money doesn't grow on trees, not even in America.
The show lasted as long as the US could pretend and extend.
Now there are no more suckers in the world, willing to support the US fantasy of unlimited benefits for unlimited government.
Fire the whole gang and let people figure this out on their own. Regroup privately and start from scratch. No worries, kids will still learn, patients will still get treated, fires will still get extinguished. Government is not too big to fail.
Amen to that bro.
Its a good thing the left and the right are sooo different. Boy am I glad I have a choice. </sarcasm>
The AMERICAN LEFT is a poisonous parasite
Nobody needs them.
The fact that you see no difference between the two, other than the surface lip service, shows that the tricks of the power elite are far from being weakened.
There is no difference. On the surface one just happens to not be in alignment with what you believe.
Your not getting paid enough to say such uninformed things.. Their end game may be the same but frankly I am much more comfortable with how I get their onthe right side of the bus and the speed at which it gets there..
Uninformed things? So believing their is no difference between either side means I'm a paid shill? And that is uninformed? Before you call me a paid shill, try engaging me, and explaining why I'm so misguided.
Saying it like it is. Right on, walkure.
The unions want more and more money and more and more benefits. It all comes from somewhere. Any productive taxpayer is getting the raw end of that deal.
It has reached the point where is mathematically can no longer continue.
Deal with it people. Go grow some food or something. Make something, produce something, add something to the GDP, instead of just taking, taking, taking from the taxpayers. Quit whining. Go find a real job, or better yet, create a real job. Learn something about what the word "work" means. Quit stealing from the coffers.
+1000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000
Ack my zero key broke!
I agree, so now when they go to the unemployment line the welfare state continues on. Then when they are "Out of unemployement benefeits", and must look for another job in the private sector.. They will see reality for the first time.. there are no jobs in the public sector unless you move to China.
I am sure however that when half the nations public employees are let go that the unemployement numbers will be around 5% or so. Its not kicking the can down the road.. it is the end of the road..
can't wait to see just how far the union thugs go on this one. They are going to send a message for any other state that thinks about doing this. Its gonna get really ugly up there.
Pick off the parasites, one at a time, and squash them underfoot. Figuratively, of course.
Government "workers". Bureaucrats. TSA. HUD. Department of Education. 100,000 extra costumed government thugs ("police").
+++++1. Absolutely.
Starve the monkeys!
TSA?
Lol you don't realize how secure their jobs are. DHS jobs are going to be the most secure jobs in the country for at least one, maybe two generations, unless the American people stop being pussies.
THERE IS NO MONEY!
WTF is so hard to understand about that?
Maybe they'll sell bonds like Il in the billions and send the money directly to pay fat, over-bloated, retired pensions. Now, theres an investment opportunity!
As a resident of IL, I resemble that remark.
?
The game is over. Nobody wants to buy anymore US paper debt that cannot be repaid.
On top of that, everyone is now aware of the circle jerk the Fed has been doing for years with US paper.
Currency is worthless, entitlements are up the ying yang and nobody wants to fucking work for a living.
Welcome to the new reality that has been the reality for billions of people all over the world that have never been able to enjoy to live in a place with reserve currency status.
They have become too used to working for a corporation that doesn't have to make a profit, doesn't need to give the shareholders a good return on their money and doesn't need to worry about efficiency. That, has changed.....at least the efficiency part and being responsible to the sharholders (the taxpayer).
There is plenty of "money". It just doesn't represent a constant amount of capital. Rather, it represents a constantly decreasing amount of capital.
Nice observation. h/t
THERE IS PLENTY OF MONEY!!!!
IT'S IN THE ROBBER THEIR POCKETS WHO WILL NEVER KNOW HUNGER OR FEAR ON HOW TO GET BY!!!
THEY ROBBED THE PLACE BLIND FOR THE LAST 2 DECADES AND NOW ALL IS GONE INTO THEIR POCKETS!!!
AND NOW THEY WANT WHAT REMAINS AND LET THE REST OF THE PEOPLE WORK FOR FOOD AND CHELTER!
+1 in bold no less
More precisely, there is no one to Exploit to get the money.
As long as the union folk and the anti-union folk continue to fight and hate eachother (as some indeed will in these posts), ignoring the real reason why everything sucks, all is well with the Elite.
All collectivism is based on elitism, unions included.
I am happy to see you have given up completely, now get out of the way, the elite are next..
I would vote for that Wisconsin Gov for President.
Seconded!
Me too - in fact, I'd vote early and often like the union ballot box stuffing liberals do. Then I'd find some half-truth, take it out of context, and protest (on the clock, of course) with my fellow thugs members.
its great to see so many of you retards cheering as america goes down the drain. pretty soon it will have a standard of living similar to mexico. can't wait!
but watching the protesters sing patriotic songs and stuff. its too much. way too nice. the american flag stands for nothing these days but corrupt corporate hegemony. what do people think is so great about america? get out while you still can.
Yes, well, in that we all are the shareholders (taxpayers) of this 'corrupt' corporation then please explain why we should all pay these extra bennies? A little difficult to absorb eh? That it is the taxpayers that are footing the bill....and that all that money doesn't just appear.
Obviously, it hasn't dawned on you that maybe these union bureaucrats is probably a good reason why America is going down the drain.
If unions were great, we'd be France.. or Germany.. or (insert socialist country here)..
Meanwhile, the retard is the one who thinks their taxpayer-funded jobs/benefits are an entitlement... like the Wisconsin teacher unions, obviously..
Thirded! I'd also declare open season on all union thugs. No tag required, no bag limit. Drop them where they stand!
So would any fascist who wants to vote fascist.
I'm sure the people on the board love to know when a traitor is around them.
I would vote for that Wisconsin Gov for President.
Governor of Wisconsin and President of the USA are just two more overcompensated government positions which should be abolished right along with public school teachers, social workers, bureaucrats, etc.
The austerity movement begins! O'Bommy blew his chance to break the UAW and really set our country on the right course.
Our Financial Overlords must be tickled pink with the way this intra-class war is shaping up.
+1000.
My thoughts exactly. But maybe this stuff has to play out first before the masses even begin to understand.
understand what exactly?
if it wasn't for the exessive and manipulative financial sector, the public sector ponzi would have died decades ago.
one enabled the other.
Division of the people at the bottom of the pyramid (make no mistake, that includes: you, me, the union members and most likely everyone here at ZH). If we are busy arguing amongst ourselves......well, you figure out the rest, you are so enlightened.
The financial elite doesn't benefit from a country that's too broke to afford the socialist grave it has dug for itself.
Clearly, you're a victim of the LEFTIST indoctrination that has built up this argument for years.
If you can't see the organization that is behind what is going on in Wisconsin, you're the one deserving a second term of a community organizer POTUS.
Clearly the left has gotten to me. So by extension I deserve another term with this idiot. Separate issues completely, but I digress.
Fighting amongst the middle class doesn't help anyone other than those at the top. And of course the financial elite benefits, the thievery is all around, and is posted here daily.
Fighting amongst the middle class doesn't help anyone other than those at the top.
And that's why overcompensated union workers should voluntarily get off the backs of the impoverished citizenry. I'd like to see the unions show a little solidarity with the average guy for a change.
I'd like to see the unions show a little solidarity with the average guy for a change.
Agreed.
And to the point about the financial elite benefiting from all this, while the country goes broke, take a quick look at the new post about AIG.
You're legit, Confused. Fuck the bozos.
You guys with the "don't look here, look over there" schtick sound so self satisfied & smug in your special knowledge. Kind of arrogant really.
I'm quite sure most of the posters here who don't want to pay the unions off also know about the scope of the worlds problems. That's why they are here.
The unions ARE a financial overlord. They have lorded it over the other memebers of the middle class long enough. They either get real or get lost.
You are missing the point, although you touch on it in your own statement.
They have lorded it over the other memebers of the middle class
Divide and conquer. Middle class in fighting when our attention should be focused on the real plight on our country.
This is the real plight of our country. The State is wringing individuals dry and redistributing that money to the chosen few, whether they be big bankers or government employees. It's all part and parcel.
You can make a pretty strong case that the Banksters and the Unions are equally financial overlords.. The only difference is that one represents folks in white collars, and the other represents the blue collars.. and at the end of the day, the taxpayer foots the bill for both.