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Wisconsin Farce Ending: AWOL Democrats Scramble Back After Republican Senate Finds Loophole To Pass Controversial Bill
And so the biggest farce in US politics so far in 2011 (absent of course from the whole debt [ceiling|target] debate, not to mention the ridiculous budget, but those are topics for another day) is about to come to an end. After earlier tonight the Wisconsin Senate used a "procedural move on Wednesday to pass the proposal without the Democrats present" thereby rendering their three week long self-appointed exile to Illinois moot, "the leader of Democrats in the Wisconsin Senate says his caucus will return to the state, but he won't say when." The loophole used by the Republicans is that in lieu of passing the full budget bill, lacking a Democrat vote for a quorum, they instead formed a
special committee to isolate only the collective bargaining portions of
the bill and passed it with just 19 votes. The Seattle Times reports: "the floor session lasted just minutes, and the state Assembly is
scheduled to take up the measure on Thursday morning. That's the last
step before it can go to Walker for his signature. Senate Democratic leader Mark Miller of Monona says Democrats will
"join the people of Wisconsin in taking back their government," but he
refused to say when." In other words, the first attempt at forced austerity in the US is about to be ancted. What happens next will likely not be pretty as it suddenly becomes evident that the whole "cost-cutting" thing that is so popular in Europe is about to really come to the world's most entitled country.
To commemorate ending the Democrats' three week long vacation from , Wisconsin Senate Majority Leader Fitzgerald issued the following statement:
After nearly a month of debate on the budget repair bill, nearly three weeks of childish stunts and delay tactics from the Democrats, the longest public hearing in state history and the longest Assembly debate in state history, the Senate met tonight to pass the non-fiscal items in the Budget Repair Bill. Sen. Fitzgerald released the following statement:
"Before the election, the Democrats promised "adult leadership" in Madison. Then a month and a half into session, the Senate Democrats fled the state instead of doing their job.
"In doing so, they have tarnished the very institution of the Wisconsin state Senate. This is unacceptable.
"This afternoon, following a week and a half of line-by-line negotiation, Sen. Miller sent me a letter that offered three options: 1) keep collective bargaining as is with no changes, 2) take our counter-offer, which would keep collective bargaining as is with no changes, 3) or stop talking altogether.
"With that letter, I realized that we're dealing with someone who is stalling indefinitely, and doesn't have a plan or an intention to return. His idea of compromise is "give me everything I want," and the only negotiating he's doing is through the media.
"Enough is enough." "The people of Wisconsin elected us to do a job. They elected us to stand up to the broken status quo, stop the constant expansion of government, balance the budget, create jobs and improve the economy. The longer the Democrats keep up this childish stunt, the longer the majority can't act on our agenda.
"Tonight, the Senate will be passing the items in the budget repair bill that we can, with the 19 members who actually DO show up and do their jobs. Those items include the long-overdue reform of collective bargaining needed to help local governments absorb these budget cuts, and the 12 percent health care premium and 5 percent pension contribution.
"We have confirmed with the Legislative Fiscal Bureau, the Legislative Council and the Legislative Reference Bureau that every item in tonight's bill follows the letter of the law.
"The people of Wisconsin elected us to come to Madison and do a job. Just because the Senate Democrats won't do theirs, doesn't mean we won't do ours."
And for those inclined to read what laws actually pass in this country, below is the Legislative Fiscal Bureau's summary of the passed bill, while the actual 138 page bill can be found here.
2011_03_09 Modification to SS SB 11_AB 11
h/t John Poehling
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I have no children, but if I did, I wouldn't send them to school. They won't be dowsed in propaganda and taught how not to think. If I wanted my children to memorize a test, I would just hand them the test and tell them to get at it, not waste a year of their lives.
I found school to be boring an pointless. I spent every day having useless facts ground into my head with pointless repitition. Since then schools have only devolved.
Yeah, The Bernank is monetizing the debt just for shits and giggles.
Hard to find sympathy for the democrats here. Leaving the state indefinitely is not how this form of tyranny works. While I prefer minimum government, if you are going to have whatever we call this government- then the elected members must participate.
Losing may not be fun, but normally, you let the people change the membership if they're unhappy. This is just an embarrassment.
Would you go back home if all you were gonna get was an ass-whoopin' -- would you go?
The outcome if they were in the state was a lock. Looks like a few of the Republicans were having second thoughts as well.
I would have never left. You do not model leadership by defying the law and running from a problem. Election cycles for legislators are 2-4 years. You lose now, but seek change later.
There is nothing even remotely desirable about the American form of authoritarianism, but unless you are going to replace it, you play by the rules.
I'll tell the next ass-licking morgage banker I see (that would be all of them) that you pass on your regards about upholding the law.
Oh, and then there's this:
Wisconsin Senate Passes Bill Ending Public Bargaining Rightshttp://reason.com/archives/2010/01/12/class-war
WHY are you in favor of Public Employees being our masters?
The Wisconsin law did NOT go far enough if Firefighters and Police are still exempt!
Just because I can see injustice where it is doesn't mean I'm in favor of one thing or another. Frankly, I see both sides of the argument, but that is not an excuse to sidestep the law -- AWOL legislators or not. I'll agree with you that exempting the other unions was the evidence that there are scoundrels running the Wisconsin government.
Sorry but the verbiage used on the front-page descriptions of the articles is getting more than a lot confusing. I know you're trying to get as many stories out as quickly as possible to as many as possible but the wording is more than a lot confusing. In fact, many times, it makes little sense at all.
I can't tell whether you're thumbing through the dictionary to try to find a word no one has ever used before, there is a misspelling or you're just making stuff up on the fly.
Please slow down.
Thanks.
Are you part of the union blood sucking leeches, or did your trades go bad today ?
What's wrong with said post, details, details ....
The blood suckers are on Wall Street.
They're not the bus drivers, garbage collectors, and librarians.
Unlike the banker-gangster brigands, at least those protesting the SHREDDING OF CONTRACT do REAL work.
For the average worker in Wisconsin who has no hope of receiving a pension as good as the state workers, but who is forced to pay them theirs, they might very well look like blood suckers too.
Sure were a lot of folks worried about "the sanctity of contracts" when it was suggested that various Wall Streeters lose their money and/or position(s). That was a different set of folks then. What's that old saying about the goose and the gander?
So, two wrongs make a right?
In this case? Absolutely! When someone in "authority" can show some cojones with the rich and famous then they'll have the right to reign over the livelihoods of all citizens. Ain't gonna happen. I'd call it fair play. Bankers get to burn down the economy; citizens get to burn down the courthouse. Ain't an equal trade-off but I'll settle for what I can get.
wow what pea brain people have come out today... so these avg workers who do not fight for their rights or do less than sheep as their companies go overseas now seem to have endless energy to complain that others that have organized to defend a better living standard are eating too much cake
may you shit blood forever
The game is over. You're going to have to find a job in which you provide goods or services for which customers actually want to pay.
Could you name a few of those things? You're dismissing garbage collection, fire fighting, police work, and teaching from that list? If a person is engaging in work that is provided effectively by a monopoly (city services, etc.) then they can't bargain? There is something to be said for that position, whereas, those workers in private enterprise can always go to work for a competitor for better pay. I see both sides to the arguments. Tough call for me, although it seems to be cut and dried for others.
There are serious deficiencies in an argument that excludes police and fire unions from the legislation. Why they are eliminating collective bargaining is also troublesome. People should have the right to assemble and strike. There is much that is wrong with this legislation, still, if the people cannot pay the cost- there has to be a haircut. Otherwise, it all fails and how useful is that?
This is the problem with all government. It cannot be minimalized and becomes abused for the benefit of a few elites. A worker is worth his wages, but the wages cannot be set by the very people who are going to receive them.
this is asinine.. have you even looked to see if their pensions are even the driving force in draining their budget?? have you looked at all?? just the inside of your ass most likely is all you see
It is asinine. All government is asinine. All taxes are asinine. All public sector employment is asinine. Does that help?
On this we can agree completely!
yes blow up this system - we agree.. and after the reset, you will see that said union workers standard of living will increase even more in value even with the much larger increase of other sectors living standards that have been fooled into agreeing to shit payscales for the last few decades..
that is what we all should wake up and fight for..
A government's budget is composed exclusively of money taken under threat of force. All expenditures regardless of their size are an extension of a criminal act.
"Why they are eliminating collective bargaining is also troublesome. People should have the right to assemble and strike."
That is NOT what collective bargaining is. Everyone is free through the 1st ammendment to assemble peaceably, petition, protest, etc. And of course every employee anywhere can choose not to go to work, and can convince his fellow employees not to go to work for a strike. I repeat, that is NOT what collective bargaining is about. Collective bargaining is a process that involves binding arbitration, which means that a contract can be forced on the employer without their consent, or vice versa.
As for the comments from other posters about the sanctity of contract law, yes, it should not be violated. It should not have been violated at the banks if those contracts were valid to begin with. It should not be violated with the public employees if those contracts were valid to be begin with - but, guess what, any contract reached through binding arbitration is invalid. A contract requires mutual consent. Period.
It's pretty simple really. If government is the problem and corporations are the problem and they don't serve us. Then we get rid of both. A ten year old kid could understand the concept. We tend to get blinded by esoteric and abstract arguments when at base it is a very simple thing.
You're dismissing garbage collection, fire fighting, police work, and teaching from that list?
What makes you believe that I need the government to pick up my garbage? If I can get better service from a private trash collector at a better price should I not have that right? Why are folks so hell bent on believing that only the government can deliver mail or pick up garbage or protect us from criminals or teach our children? I'd bet good money that if the government took over the soft pretzel business that within a few years folks would believe deep in their souls that without government soft pretzels could never exist.
There was an interseting story awhile back about an entrepreneur in California who started offering garbage pickup to a small community which was upset at what they had to pay to the union run outfits. The union thugs colluded with the local goobermint to FORCE him out of business.
We agree more than disagree. You cherry-picked my comment for your quote. Government "services" are a monopoly, and that makes the whole argument based on a faulty premise right there. Anyone should be able to compete with any civil service within the bounds of health and safety. But they'd figger some way to place roadblocks there as well!
We agree more than disagree.
I agree!
If I can get better service from a private trash collector at a better price should I not have that right? Why are folks so hell bent on believing that only the government can deliver mail or pick up garbage or protect us from criminals or teach our children?
There it is, the truth finally comes out. This shill wants the contract to pick up the garbage. I bet he is even planning on recruiting some poor folks from south of the border to do the work for him. Heck they'll work for a few bucks an hour and he can treat them like a dog and they'll still show up for slavery.
There it is, the truth finally comes out. This shill wants the contract to pick up the garbage. I bet he is even planning on recruiting some poor folks from south of the border to do the work for him. Heck they'll work for a few bucks an hour and he can treat them like a dog and they'll still show up for slavery.
You talk about "the contract to pick up the garbage" like you simply can not envision free market enterprise. If humans were free in the USA there would be no single contract to pick up the garbage. Individuals would each make their own arrangement as to who they would hire to perform that work or any other work.
Private companies DO pick up garbage in parts of the USA -- Govt does NOT and indeed, should NOT be performing this service!
Hmm, I guess that this means that you'd welcome the Govt's efforts to Nationalize coin shops, in order to inject some o' that World-famous Govt-monopoly efficiency into the biz! Check your premises.
Like Credit Default Swaps, right?
You are right, no doubt. The Wall Street complex is a leech, enabled by the Fed and its cronies in DC, as well as the stupidity of the general populace. There can be no disputing this, you are 100% correct.
However, there can be more than one problem existing at any one time. The public unions are another problem that must be dealt with. It is not as simple as "good and bad" or "black and white". The country is getting f*cked six ways from Sunday by interest groups from all over, just vying for their piece of flesh.
Only when we shift from a "I gotta get me mine" mentality can we rebuild. Until then, the descent continues.
They're not even in the same universe, and acting as they are is disingenuous.
Just curious, how did you feel about the GM bailout? Was it a good thing or a bad thing in your opinion?
The workers didn't get a bailout. The workers got a shank in their ribcage. The GM bailout was a backdoor attack on a corrupt UAW that had basically sold itself out to the bosses years ago.
The 'bailout' was really about destroying the union contract that gave the workers pension rights, disability, etc. It was a specific type of corporate welfare that enabled the company (and let's be honest here - we're really talking about a bailout of GMAC's derivatives shop) to save itself by fucking over the workers who made it billions of dollars in profit.
As we see by his all-out assault on the UAW and the teachers (though Arnie Duncan and privatized schooling), Barry is the union-buster in Chief.
The knife in the back of GM workers is a product of that reality.
these people are dumb .. they don't even know that the UAW was transferring from GM and creating a new benefit fund before all shit went crazy in '08
thanks for sheding some light to their blind eyes - not that they will see any of it
Of course they are. In the Corporatist States of America, government and the corporations are two sides of the same coin. Cooperation between them is required to fleece the public. You're one of these poor wretches who actually believes that the corporations are opposed to socialistic government, aren't you? And that the corporations want a free market system? LOL!
Wall Street is just a subsidiary. It's really the Federal Reserve Corporation who is most responsible.
Well the top banksters should be in prison. But the people making $80,000 grand at HUD ( low level jobs ) who retire with 80% of that being payed out afterward is a joke. The stories of some guy running a firehouse in California pulling in $250,000 per year. Teachers in a crappy suburban high school in Illinois ... Run of the mill township. ( I attended this school )
Lemont High school • Average Pay $72,850 • 90th Percentile $ 112,030
( How many months of work for this pay ? )
http://www.teachersalaryinfo.com/illinois/teacher-salary-in-lemont-bromb...
Bode Jeanne E $441,612 CARY CCSD 26
Morrison Donna M $439,803 BELLWOOD SD 88
Schackmann Deborah K $329,404 SOUTH EASTERN SP ED PROGRAM
Marszalek Christine D $174,403 LOCKPORT TWP HSD 205
Hall James W $170,172 LOCKPORT TWP HSD 205
Gonsiorowski Marvin $165,370 LEMONT TWP HSD 210
Vallicelli Richard E $164,232 LEYDEN CHSD 212
Swords Robert G $163,327 LEYDEN CHSD 212
Martinez Lino $163,184 ADLAI E STEVENSON HSD 125
Wolter James H $163,144 NORTHFIELD TWP HSD 225
Sincora Craig D $162,432 ADLAI E STEVENSON HSD 125
Weber Peter W $161,622 ADLAI E STEVENSON HSD 125
Vanderschoot Gerard $161,502 LEMONT TWP HSD 210....... ( This guy was a ART TEACHER ) LOL' $ 161,502 ... LOL"
Dezurko Steve $160,729 LEYDEN CHSD 212
Brown Paul P $160,522 LEYDEN CHSD 212
Fuerst Keith E $160,247 LEYDEN CHSD 212
Cartwright James A $160,135 TOWNSHIP HSD 211
Geiger James M $160,121 NORTH SHORE SD 112
Roy Raymond $159,156 TWP HSD 113
Kimpton Paul H $159,031 HINSDALE TWP HSD 86
Sullivan Eugene E $158,435 OAK LAWN CHSD 229
Pavlakis Jean E $158,395 TWP HSD 113
Ehrke Renee D $158,168 TWP HSD 113
Bryant Dorothy J $158,166 THORNTON TWP HSD 205
Two of them almost made a half mil! And these are from last year. They all got rasies this year.
Now that's just frikkin' ridiculous!
That list of teachers above is only 1/5th of the entire name count. 112 teachers making over $140,000 dollars. Not administrators just teachers ....
Everyone can look up said stats around the USA on all the cash the teachers are pulling in. And they get what 3 months vacation per year, and the tenure after what, 4-5 years, at that point they must kill someone to get fired. A total joke seeing the education most kids get in most public high schools.
What kind of job will a kid get nowadays with just a high school education, a floor sweeper ....
Teachers are ruining the country.
Wall Street banker-gangsters are suffering, with their paltry 10 billion dollar bailouts.
We should reward the banker-gangsters with tax breaks to compensate them for those thieving bus drivers!
by Arkadaba
on Tue, 03/08/2011 - 14:21
#1028338
Editing my post because I was "tired" when posted.
I believe that the US education system is failing but I'm not sure why. A few weeks ago I watched "Waiting for Superman" (worth watching). The film explicitly targets easy tenure (and therefore the teacher's union in general but implicitly).
I tend to think that explanation is somewhat facile. I received a great public education in Canada and teachers here are part of a union and have tenure. My seven year-old neice is reading at a level beyond what I was at her age and she too is in public school (Canada).
I think the problem might be more systemic. American universities will give a degree to anyone who has the money to pay for it. No one flunks out and grades are inflated. And these people become teachers. I remember a number of years ago applying to grad school in the US. A few of us were worried because we didn't have a perfect grade point average. Our profs (most who went to school in the US) told us not to worry because admissions departments recognized that Canadian universities gave out "real" grades.
Addendum : I noticed that some poster above mentioned whole word reading - doesn't work - if your kid is in a program like that get them out or start teaching them how to read at home. Whole word reading comes after you have mastered the basics - namely sounding words out.
I am going to write something about unions tomorrow - tired of all the bull
Check out: "Some Lessons from the Underground History of American Education" by John Taylor Gatto, found in "Everything You Know is Wrong", ISBN 978-1-56731-637-7, pgs 274-287.
you need to go back and do some math... so you have a dollar that has loss how much in value year-to-year??? and you somehow use a sheeple that allow their pay to stay the same or worse as the benchmark??
You should be yelling about why everyone else is getting shafted!!! amazing how stupid you are. No wonder they get away with squeezing the life out of this country with tripe like your brain running around.
I work for myself. Why the fuck do you need a union are you a brain dead tripe ???
People getting shafted making 80,000 grand a year as a union plummer, nigger please .....
Shafted for living in a country as great as the USA, even the poor are living a good, safe life .. We can use forest preserves with our families, travel freely, open a business or do whatever we want as Americans.
Union fucks can retire at 45 and live off the taxpayer, hell, I can't do that.....The unions can lick Spaldings balls.
And guess what buddy, its all fucking over, your going down. Book it. This is part 1 of a long running novel ...
80,000 grand would be alot, but I believe you meant 80 grand
you think I have to be in a union to understand and defend the principles? No, I am not in a union. But it is short sighted to feel that a nimble varmint as yourself can continue to find greener pastures while others who work towards a more stable environment dissolve (no matter how much you care to live on your own, you still depend on this stable economy structure)
80 grand is just an inflated 40 grand plumber of yesteryear. Why would his pay stay at 40,000 if inflation rises all around? Are you happy to compare yourself with the lowest of the low?
Your idea of unions is grossly warped if you think they are all retiring at 45. You do see that Wis. excluded cops and firefighters who are more in that group than who is getting shafted, correct?
"What kind of job will a kid get nowadays with just a high school education, a floor sweeper ...."
NYC unionized janitors are pulling six figures with benefits. Maybe deliberately reducing the quality of public education and increasing teachers' salaries has been the right move. Now everyone can become a janitor!
<rolls eyes>
How much did Jamie Dimon make this year to destroy the world economy?
The Illinois tax payers do not pay his salary.
The bailout saved the entire economy, I wish the bum ( Jamie Dimon ) was in prison also but thats a different story. He works for a private company not the tax payers, you can send an email to the board of directors and ask why he was not shit canned .....
How much of the final years salary do union workers get after they retire, I heard 80%, so we have an art teacher from Lemont getting $ 100,000 plus after he calls it quits ?? Smells like a pile of poop to me ....
"The economy" for you = banker-gangsters.
Yet in reality, the world would function just fine without the parasitic blood suckers that are the be-all and end-all of the system in your view.
again your defective brain at work!
what is QE1 and QE2 but inflation through the destruction of the dollar. You say they are private but their entire life was put on government support to the nth degree destroying all worth across the land!!!
you are a fuckin bug in a shit storm that thinks your brother's ass smells
And your a union bum who just figured out its game over. No more hand outs. LOL
Now maybe you will earn your keep after you stop working you lazy bum.
Spalding was a janitor during the summer in high school, I worked on a water well drilling rig, and for a family printing business ( crushed from the wave of digital printing ) we did not get a bailout, we don't get handouts after we stop working, we pay all the same taxes supporting bums like you • property taxes ect ......... Cry me a river .....
I'm not in a union. But you feel the only ones that defend the principles have to be in a union. I make 6 figures in a big evil corporate environment. And it is bleeding people away piece by piece. I can live off 6 figures or 6 dollars - I take myself out of the main equation. You dismiss the robbery of this country. I have seen it first hand from many sides.
Aww daddy's business failed now little Spalding doesn't have a job. It's terrible that a retard can't get a $100K a year job.
You are a small minded person, very sad. You really think, if you get rid of all the teachers that your taxes will go down. What a moron, if you idiots get your way you'll be paying more in taxes, tuition to send your kids to school, a garbage pick up bill, $4 to mail a letter, tolls to drive on the roads, etc. Man the elite have done a job on your pea brain. Hey Spalding, let's elect us some guys who will put a VAT tax in, that would make our income tax go down. If you weren't so sad it would be funny.
To which idiots are you referring? Those who would like government spending and taxation to fall, or those who would like government spending and taxation to increase? Now, whose taxes will be rising?
Do you forget which side of the argument you're on?
$100K a year in pension benefits is UNREAL.
How much would a PRIVATE sector employee have to save in order to earn that kind of benefit upon retirement?
Assuming a generous (interest rates are near zero) 5% return on your principal you would need to save $2 MILLION dollars to earn a $100K annuity.
How many private sector folk have a cool $2 MIL sitting in their 401Ks?
Yet, the union shills refuse to cop to this obvious IMBALANCE, which is simply taxpayer theft.
Was it Rush that told you if we privatize everything your taxes will go down? Haha what a boob.
Well, my trades haven't done anything in over six days. Maybe I am bored enough that I have some extra time to read. I just don't like to read the same sentence several times to make sense of it.
For instance...
" In other words, the first attempt at forced austerity in the US is about to be ancted."
"...adamantium price stability..."
"...an age of immediate demanded gratification and POMO-adjusted Newtonian third laws..."
I mean, I get it, it's just that the wording can be quite confusing and seems to sacrifice clarity for cleverness.
But, as I said, I am probably just bored out of my mind.
Sorry to interrupt.
:D
Peace out baby ...
Orly, I appreciate your comments, even the nit-picky ones. The said, I generally appreciate Tyler's whit as well.
I know, I know! Nit-picky? Oh, man, I do have to lighten up!
I just found out I have some ticker trouble, so I have been inordinately moody. Sucks, too. Just when you start having the real fun...
I suspect that the real battle lines in the United States, when they are finally drawn, will not be racial, nor religious, nor even overtly partisan. The battle lines will be dividing those who actually produce real goods and services, and the masses of parasites who live off them, be they bankers or lawyers or government employees. There are simply too many people trying to live off the labor of an ever-diminishing pool of real producers. It is unsustainable and eventually it will come crashing down. In effect, the politicians have promised the future labor of others in order to purchase votes, and they will have to use increasing quantities of coercian to deliver those promises.
Government jobs are just disguised welfare. The vast majority of government employees provide services for which no real market demand exists. Few, if anyone, would voluntarily purchase the "services" which government employees provide. Yet, here we are, with a vast welfare state and police state apparatus that is being funded by the very people who are enslaved and abused by it. If the day ever arrives to clear the books, I know exactly who will be shooting at me, and who I will be shooting back at.
Who is John Galt?
+1
Cow
Who is John Galt?
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0480239/
Paul Johansson
The guy that gets arrested, thrown in jail, and gets to do life in Colorado's supermax.
I am John Galt.
+ snorting
Bullshit.
There's plenty of money out there. It just goes into the pockets of the banker-gangsters. Not that you care about that, hypocrite.
"There's plenty of money out there." What a moron! If that's true, why don't you go pick some of this free and happy money off the money tree and pay the Wisconsin Teacher's Union's pension and medical benefit shortfalls? What? What happened to all that money that is just "out there" for the taking.
MORON!
How about a 5% Wall Street turnover tax.
Doing so solves every budget problem in the USA.
And if that's not enough, tax Wall Street bonuses.
And if that's not enough, seize JP Morgan.
Any of those options makes more sense than closing libraries and public parks.
Interesting ideas but, you might not be aware, JP Morgan is not headquartered in Wisconsin. None of NASDAQ, AMEX, NYSE or COMEX are headquartered in Wisconsin.
The money that would be gained by these plans would either go to the state of New York or to the Federal Gov't.
right but the dollar that JPMorgan, et all have been destorying is used in Wis. Why should gas double?? stomp your feet since your brain is broken
Forget closing libraries and parks.
Fix the RIDICULOUS PENSIONS.
More proof that Capital loves contracts until they don't anymore.
When they stop, watch your back!
downwiththebanks:
Your concept of economics really doesn't go beyond the notion that some people have wealth, and others need it, and therefore the state should take from the former to give to the latter, does it? That solves the problem does it? Do you understand what wealth is and how it is created? Do you understand WHY Wall Street has captured so much wealth?
+1
+1,000,000
An actual taxpayer in Wisconsin.
Scott Walker just saved me from a threatened $10,000 special property tax assessment to pay for the shortfall in our local school district's pension and medical plan contributions. Thank God for Scott Walker!!!
You don't hear anything about THAT on the lamestream media, do you!
I call astroturf. Please show me actual information regarding a 10,000$ property tax assesment on a single residence. Thats beyond an idiotic claim. If your local school district is so broke that they think they need to take 10,000$ from each resident then either you have 1500 residents and every one has 20 kids, or the problem is a lot bigger than techers unions.
More like he has fourteen hundred head on his spread?
What?
dude, the gov't can assess your property for any hairball scheme they want
that's why in the west, unless you've found an unknown cave location, there is nowhere to hid from these monsters
they keep spending and building, because they know that the assessments will be added to your account, and if you can't pay, you go to the breadline and eventually to the worker camps
think small my friends, because your gobernment already has the big thinking covered for ya
My buddies parents pay $ 13,000 in taxes on a 6,000 sq ft house in Lemont Illinois, one acre lot. The entire subdivision is maybe 300 houses total.
http://www.city-data.com/city/Lemont-Illinois.html
That's so sad, they have to pay 13 grand on a house the size of THE HOLIDAY INN.
Oh look, not even the friggin' hands in my wallet guys can believe in a 10k property tax bill on a private residence.
It goes way past that son, move to the Communist state of NJ & see for yourself.
I live in a small school district. There is very little business because of zoning regulations, (a lovely old hotel next to me has been in and out of business for a decade because of regulatory problems stemming from the local government) and a small non-commercial tax base because of tax exemptions for schools and churches, of which there are many. So, when the recession arrived, and property values fell, what did the government do? It built a new $10 million, completely unnecessary office building for itself, and added onto a $40 million middle school that had just been built five years earlier. O, they also built TWO new parks, on either side of the large already existing park that was in perfect repair. The high school recently put on Les Miserables for their annual play, at a minor cost of $10,000 in royalties. Needless to say, taxes have risen sharply. I'm so very glad that I am forced on penalty of a long prison sentence to fund these valuable social services...I could not possibly spend that money more prudently on my own. The government officials need to help me, and now they can help me all the more thanks to their new office building!
<rolls eyes>
Hooray for Heinrich Brüning. Mass layoffs are the obvious solution to the economic crisis for real people.
Just don't touch the rich - they must be allowed to steal with ever-increasing vigor.
Mass layoffs are the obvious solution to the economic crisis for real people.
That's true because the "real people" are the taxpayers who are tired of paying unions way too much for services that are substandard and/or unwanted.
But we'll keep paying the banker-gangsters and suck it down.
$40,000 salaries - NO WAY!
$40,000,000,000 salaries - that's fine.
So send me $40,000 if you're not a hypocrite.
This thread is actually pretty interesting without your repeated, inance bullshit posts. Why not STFU for awhile? How many posts do you have in the thread? You hate the bankers - good I realized that 80 posts ago....
summary - Save Wisconson and union salaries and pensions - screw the bankers. Great, now sit down for fucks sake.
If you don't like it go back to listening to Rush. He'll get all those mean old doubts flushed out of your pea brain.
The same goes for this one...nothing new to say in dozens of posts. And this is the nth time I've seen 'pea-brain.' What, insult-of-the-day calenday run out of pages?
You are going to be so sorry you ever voted Walker in. He may have saved you 10 grand in the short run which I doubt, but when he gives all the generating plants to the Koch brothers and your electric bill doubles or better and illegals are bused in to take all those jobs created when he privatizes all services. You will be getting bills from every direction and your taxes will go up because the tax cuts will only be for the top 20% of the wealthy, everyone knows they produce all the jobs, that you never seem to get. Good luck sucker.
Cxl9, the new RED PILL.
GOVERNMENT JOBS ARE JUST DISGUISED WELFARE.
The vast majority of government employees provide services for which no real market demand exists. Few, if anyone, would voluntarily purchase the "services" which government employees provide. Yet, here we are, with a vast welfare state and police state apparatus that is being funded by the very people who are enslaved and abused by it. If the day ever arrives to clear the books, I know exactly who will be shooting at me, and who I will be shooting back at.
Preach it brother.
and you would prefer to pay taxes for nothing? I would prefer that not all my tax money goes to the TBTF bankers/corporatist. All you financial services folks are shitting your pants thinking there won't be any money for the next bailout aren't you?
All the tax money goes to the banks, really? There's a few tens of billions of corporate welfare to certain sectors, and TARP of course. Outside of that, tax revenues do not go the banks. That is not the source of their wealth. You, Sir, do not understand the problem that is the corrupt relationship between Wall Street and the government, as it's got almost nothing to do with tax revenues. It's about the banking system and the monetary system as such.
Thank fucking god that's over. Now all those union supporters can picket for Charlie Sheen. He does belong to the same union as Moore and he was fired not for the drugs and booze but for talking about his bosses. That would be an unjust fire and deserving of a strong picket.
Plus he is Hispanic!
FREE CARLOS! FREE CARLOS! FREE CARLOS! What ever happened to Emilio, did the marriage to Paula Abdul drag his ass into obscurity? Fuck even Judd Nelson still does bit parts.
All I know is, I have to show up for work in order to get paid. Politicians don't bother to show up to vote on things because they're too busy 'fund raising'.
This is just classic. I'm sitting in my hotel room in Florida flipping through the channels and both MSNBC and CNN are both reporting the end of the world as they know it. Needless to say there is no mention in regard to the fact that the Dem's left the state in the first place to avoid voting and I guess the Dems are just pissed the thugs on the other side of the aisle got over on them. Priceless. . . .
Scott Walker, bitchez!!! hahahahahahahahahahaha
Hooray for Heinrich Brüning's economic program!
Just look how well that turned out.
Hahahahahahahahaha
democracy's a bitch when it goes a way you don't like, ain't it
Democracy doesn't exist when elections are auctions.
You know, these complaints didn't seem to arise when Obama was winning the presidency.
Nobody raised more Wall Street banker-gangster money than Barry.
Ever.
The average wage of working Americans has been going down since the mid 1970s. Back then government jobs were low paid and looked down upon. Now we have thousands lining up for postal jobs. Pretty sad. Now that the wages and benefits of private sector workers have been dragged way down - time to bring government workers in line with that. Productivity has increased leaps and bounds since then and what has it gotten the workers? Nada. It's easy to discredit the facts I just laid out. Just call me a communist.
Communist
The real question: how much fellatio do you perform daily on Wall Street banker-gangsters robbing workers blind every day?
The real answer: you're the communist.
I don't rape, rob, and pillage for a living.
Obviously not. You have your union do the dirty work for you.
I wish I had the protections offered by a union.
Bosses will fuck you over.
If you want better pay get better skills, learn how to better negotiate a contract or start your own business. But that would require effort on your part -- something you obvious wish to avoid.
HA HA HA HA HA HA!
Negotiate a better CONTRACT!
That's funny.
We ALL know how valuable those sacrosanct contracts are to those screwing over the working class on behalf of Capital. They're voided whenever it's convenient to those who drew it up.
Good old contracts! How about asking the Wisconsin workers about their 'contract'!
Idiot
Masked Man
I noticed my postman has been arriving early these past few months. He had stretched out the deliveries to the very last minute and occasionaly overtime.
The word must be out to knuckle down or lose the pay.
Complete List of the advancements by the US Post Office in the last 30 years:
1. Stamps that you don't have to lick
"If it fits, it ships," is good, too. Much more fair, don't you think?
Yup. The Zip+4 was about the last big improvement.
the takers just got TAKEN
The takers work at banks and tear up those SACRED contracts whenever it suits their naked self-interests.
+1
Here's an example of a non sequitur:
Bob: "The banks are robbing us blind"
Steve: "Yes, indeed, they are. The public unions are robbing us as well."
Bob: "But the banks are robbing us blind!!!"
Steve: "Uh, yea, I know. I agree with you. And the unions are as well for x and y reasons."
Bob: "BUT THE BANKS ARE ROBBING US BLIIIIIND!!!!!!!"
Non sequitur: Bob's comments do not constitute a rebuttal of or even a reaction to Steve's comments. Bob and Steve are talking past one another. Or, more accurately, Steve is attempting to talk with Bob, while Bob is talking at Steve.
Steve has now had enough and leaves Bob to drool alone about the banks.
HINT: When people you 'debate' with all leave with a feeling of contempt for you, I recommend finding the nearest mirror and resuming your 'debate,' it will be of the same character as before and should be fun for you.
Nope the morons just got taken , but they aren't smart enough to figure it out yet.
Here's a good one for all of those believing they live in the Land of the Free and Home of The Brave, and that the Constitution and Bill of Rights and Declaration of Independence still MEAN SOMETHING.
The Farce in Wisconsin, is now joined by the Farce in Washington:..
US Gov't Attorneys: Providing a List of Charges to Those on Terror Lists 'Extremely Burdensome' Dees IllustrationActivist Post
Defense lawyers for organizations on the U.S. government's "terror list" are frustrated fighting the designation, and seizure of assets in many cases, because the government claims it is too tedious to give an explanation of the charges. "It would be extremely burdensome to give a list of charges," said the government's attorney, Douglas Letter, the Associated Press reported today:
Organizations that are arbitrarily placed on the terror list who have their assets frozen are finding the burden of proof to be on them. Yet, they don't even know what they are supposed to prove given the lack of detailed charges.
In a previous case, U.S. Judge, Gary Karr, ruled that freezing the assets of organizations suspected of terrorist ties has been done without due process by the Treasury Department. However, he also ruled that the "Treasury Department Office of Foreign Assets Control needed only a reasonable belief that the charity was a component of a larger organization that funds terrorism" to take action.
This erosion of due process and reversal of burden of proof, along with Obama's recent Executive Order to detain suspected terrorists indefinitely, are troubling signs for the "Land of the Free."
*********************
You just figured this out? We live in a totalitarian state. I am no longer concerned with the daily suspension and eradication of liberty. When the rest of you duff downers figure things out and decide to rebel- let me know. Until then, I'm not wasting good blood pressure on the ignorant.
exactly; any investments in the Ponzi system may have a very short shelf life for the many
not sure there is much to do but lay low and keep your ears open
I think this is what it was like to live in Nazi Germany during the rise of the 3rd Reich, not may good options available to the honest and peaceable
Flee?
Lets just call this even - last year the dems used procedural tactics to pass several bills, amongst them the health care pass-thru to the insurance companies and now the reps use procedural tactics to end run their cock-block.
BFD - different day, same old shit.
Kansas is way ahead of Wisconsin.
http://www.kmbc.com/news/27135897/detail.html
Now the coup de grace corollary is that the Kansas nursing home and geriatric medical "profession" have expressed use of Haldol to fast kill the burdensome aged. Try looking at Lexis incidence of Haldol abuse in Kansas and you'll see its 900% the national average.
PS. Former Kansas governor Sebelius is current Obamacare maven.
None of this is a coincidence.
Its an emerging baby boomer kill grid.
Laugh about it while you can.
...hahaha...!
Just remember: With Haldol you must carry cogentin. One of the side effects of haldol can be a severly swollen tongue which requires cogentin to moderate. But cogentin gives a nice buzz ( so I've been told...)
So Granny, if they're wheelin' you down for your final colonic, be sure to demand cogentin by name. Better to go out with a buzz than a whimper.
CW
Wow, they did it in the middle of the day, in the middle of the week in broad daylight? The nerve of them. No more midnight Saturday, Thanksgiving or Christmas eve votes? Shame
It should be noted:
They left some of the budgetary issues in the bill, meaning it should have required Quorum and will be struck down outright.
The proceedings violated senate proceedure by giving 2 hour notice instead of the 24 required for the committe meeting.
The proceedings took place as part of normal buisness yet they kept the public out of the building violating two court orders.
By doing this regardless of the fact that even FOX NEWS admits it has the support of less than 40% of the public in Wisconsin, they have effectively guaranteed that the next election will swing the opposite way, and the law will not only be struck down, but replaced by something even stupider.
You can't use a slim majority to force retarded shit on on even a signifcant minority. I would have though Obamacare had proven that already. All you do is create more problems than you tried to solve.
Damn right.
Why did the fascist PIGS clear out the building?
SEIU Troll Warning! SEIU Troll Warning!!
Shouldn't you be performing fellatio on Jamie Dimon?
Why did the fascist PIGS clear out the building?
Excuse me, but aren't those fascist pigs also public workers who belong to a union?
Brüning bought them off, didn't he?
In exchange for beating up nurses and bus drivers, they get to bargain collectively.
Divide and conquer: put the piggies on the front lines.
So you admit that unionized labor can and does act in its own best interests and not the interests of those whom they supposedly serve. You must be a Wall Street shill.
I'm saying that the easiest people to use to crush union solidarity are the PIGGIES who already love to beat up workers whenever they're told to do so, anyway.
And so?
It's quite clear that politicians of both parties couldn't care less about the rule of law when it's in their way. They only care when it's to their benefit. Most importantly, when it keeps all the pesky commoners from being able to question them, their motives, or their paymasters errr shall we say campaign contributors. This has been going on for decades.
For one, the notice thing is pretty elastic. Particularly when members of the committee aren't available. As in, out of state. That's really thin gruel.
Two, I can guarantee that combative budget issues that spur union agitating won't poll well at the time of passage. But I can also guarantee that whomever is on the side of the taxpayer in the end will do well. Do you want to run that campaign? "Don't vote for him, he balanced the budget and made the state solvent." ROFLMAO.
Three, the difference between this and ObamaCare is that it will get popular over time with the taxpayer. The bitchez who suck on the government teat are having their tantrum right now. It won't last. They are a minority. Just watch. Walker will serve two terms for being a champion of the taxpayer.