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Wisconsin Governor To Issue 1500 Layoff Notices Unless Fugitive Democrats Return To The State
In addition to "stagflation" which we announced in January would be the word of the year, we now have a new contender in the running for what may soon be the most popular word for the next 10 months: "escalation." To wit: in addition to everything happening in MENA, escalation has now struck right in our own back yard, after Wisconsin governor Walker announced he would fire 1500 state workers unless democrats, who have been fled and are hiding in Illinois to avoid a critical vote on collective bargaining, return to the state. Reuters take on this word: "The threat of layoffs increased the stakes in a bitter battle between Wisconsin Republicans and Democrats, a fight being watched around the nation as other states like Ohio and Indiana weigh rolling back public employee union power as part of budget-cutting efforts." Of course, 'escalation' could go hand in hand with 'broke' which is the third and last "word of the year" contender: "Earlier this week, Walker declared the state
"broke" when he unveiled his proposed two-year $59.2 billion budget for
fiscal 2012-2013, which eliminates more than 21,000 positions and cuts
funding to education, cities and counties." Whether this will result in so far peaceful protests turning violent as "austerity" which was the word of 2010 comes to the shores of the US is for now unknown.
From Reuters:
Republican Walker told reporters late on Thursday that "extremist elements" among 14 absent senate Democrats had blocked progress in negotiations on his "budget repair bill."
"Just when we think the process is moving forward, we see no action," Walker said. "We're frustrated."
The Democratic senators fled to Illinois two weeks ago to deny majority Republicans a quorum and a vote on the bill, and behind-the-scenes negotiations have failed to produce a compromise. Just one Democrat is needed for a quorum.
Walker said some of the absent Democrats, who have been threatened with $100-a-day fines and the prospect of being taken into custody if they return to Wisconsin, appear willing to stay away "not only for several more months, but potentially the next two years."
With no action expected on the bill, Walker said he will be forced to send out layoff notices to 1,500 state employees, saving some $30 million.
"The reality is, we shouldn't have to be going down the path of preparing for layoffs." Walker said.
Further validating the farce:
"If they (Democrats) came back tomorrow, for example, we'd still try and see if we could talk to our bank and see if we could push this (refinancing) forward because it's much better than losing $165 million in savings," Walker said.
The Capitol has been besieged by pro-union protesters, some camping out in the stately building, though the last group left late on Thursday after a Wisconsin judge ordered them out to allow cleaning crews to do their work.
Protesters claimed victory in the case, as Wisconsin Judge John Albert said authorities cannot deny the public access to the Capitol building. After business hours, people must leave or be in violation of state law, the judge ruled.
If this is the way politics in America will be done going forward, when any party knows the only way to prevent passage of austere financial measures is by fleeing, one wonders: just what is the point of the US "democratic" system when a minority can hold up the majority just by taking the first one way taxpayer funded private jet out of the state?
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+100
The partisan uber-troll cunthair sounds off!
pot meet kettle..
Make sure to point out when I start spending all my time here throwing gas on the Red-Blue and "liberal"/"conservative" fires. It's nothing but cheap troll bullshit.
An elitist union bot at that, how about two days ago union bot does that count?
In recent days, the famous 1937 letter from President Franklin D. Roosevelt to the National Federation of Federal Employees has been circulating the Internet and is an embarrassment to the public union supporters in Madison. I quote:
“All Government employees should realize that the process of collective bargaining, as usually understood, cannot be transplanted into the public service. It has its distinct and insurmountable limitations when applied to public personnel management. The very nature and purposes of Government make it impossible for administrative officials to represent fully or to bind the employer in mutual discussions with Government employee organizations. The employer is the whole people, who speak by means of laws enacted by their representatives in Congress. Accordingly, administrative officials and employees alike are governed and guided, and in many instances restricted, by laws which establish policies, procedures, or rules in personnel matters.” - Letter on the Resolution of Federation of Federal Employees Against Strikes in Federal Service
http://www.presidency.ucsb.edu/ws/index.php?pid=15445
Do you have any other quotes of FDR that you approve of, JR? Any of his famous "reforms"?
The point is, even an out-and-out socialist and enemy of the taxpayer like FDR couldn't make a case for public unions.
"We have tried spending money. We are spending more than we have ever spent before and it does not work. And I have just one interest, and if I am wrong ...somebody else can have my job. I want to see this country prosperous. I want to see people get a job. I want to see people get enough to eat. We have never made good on our promises. ...I say after eight years of this Administration we have just as much unemployment as when we started. ...And an enormous debt to boot."
Henry Morgenthau ( U.S. Secretary of Treasury 1937)
"Socialism works fine, until you run out of other people's money."
Bob, ohh Bob how about this quote Bob is this a good quote Bob??
I'm touched by how close we've gotten in such a short time, honey. But I'm scared, too--I think we need to slow this thing down. I've been hurt before. Bad.
Tend your own meat.
"The employer is the whole people, who speak by means of laws enacted by their representatives in Congress"
Oh, thats how it works? Well why worry then?! Congress has this crisis. Back to my DVRed episodes of Cake Boss and Jersey Shore then!
Phweew.
What I don't get is that in my state, Florida, you have to be molested by TSA/DHS to get into any government building; all those terrorist, dontcha know. So why didn't the protesters in Wisconsin have to undergo this; there's only fascism in the East?
Yes, same here. A lot of this is in response the Oklahoma bombing years ago.
The underlying assumption: the government will do what it takes to protect the government. Your convenience, or your taxes to pay for it all, are not a consideration. At least not to them.
you should try paying the Terrorist Insurance on any Federal Building that you own..
You have to pay it and it only pays you if the Government says formaly that it was a terrorist act... grahfitti / other damge now is lost in the land of in-between and not covered.. or at least yet.
He should lay them off, plus more, whether Democrats return or not. Every useless government worker laid off is good for the economy.
Good point Backspin - he oughta start with the prison guards, then move on to all law enforcement, yeah, yeah, that's it. Then the fire guys, and the teachers.
Think how much money Wisconsin would save!
Right, I get your point, and it's valid. Still I would argue that the majority of what government does is not needed, would be better done by the private sector, and would be done by the private sector with greater inefficiency. And I would also argue, based on what I have seen in my own local government, that most government workers are unproductive and ineffective, and it's ludicrous that these people make more money, and get multiple times the pension and benefits, of private sector workers, all at the expense of private sector workers. So I say, lay off all 1500 of them, plus some more. Reducing the public sector is good for the private sector. Removing the leech is good for the host.
Then they draw unemployment and foodstamps.
The problem is too many retards after years of rewarding them to breed. Some of the goofballs I've seen I think are better in their public building basement with their 21st century box of crayons (power point) than out on the street. They'll cost us either way. At least the state keeps them busy making sure your car registration gets lost or repaving the same road every year.
After the Great Implosion, ALL Govt spending will be swept aside -- prepare accordingly!
Unfortunately bogey, that's not far fetched at all... the bill guts public education funding (by $700M), and specifically prevents (forbids) any local tax increases to make up the difference. Why? To promote "for profit" private schools... it also includes vouchers to the wealthy to help pay for private education (you know, they're private so they can exclude any of undesirables that are somehow able to come up with the cash... keeps the "riff raff" out... how do you feel about paying for that?). Of course their corporate friends are lining up to profit from the moves on several levels.
Next up, Guards, Police, Fire Fighters... oh, and there's that other little jem that gives the good Governor the right to sell any public energy related facilities to his preferred buyer (great plan eh David K) on a no bid basis.
To the Governor's non-elite cheerleaders, it may be time to actually read the bill... this guy you're supporting is borderline psychopath (and I say he goes down... soon)!
I'll line up with you on some of that. The Governor is, after all, a government worker. He lives off of the confiscated wealth of the productive taxpayer, while he produces nothing himself. He is a leech like the rest of the government workers.
About the laying off of firefighters, police, etc: Why is it that everytime there is a cut, people scream Oh No We Can't Lay Off Firemem! Granted. How about laying off the administrative assistants for the administrative assistants? Or those five DOT workers that it takes to cut one blade of grass - why not lay off four of them? When times are flush, money is never saved - it's spent on things we don't need. Then when times are hard, they say we're going to have to cut firefighters. The most fundamental elements of basic competence are completely lacking. My 6 year old kid could make better decisions than these clowns.
Govt employees are being laid off every day (read the NF Payroll report)... WI is about the right to collective bargaining, and good old fashioned union busting (for Christ sakes, even Shep Smith calls this for what it is... live on Fox News)... the rest is just cover to confuse the useful idiots, Backspin.
Look, if you really need someone to demonize, call me crazy (or junk away), but I'm thinkin' WALL STREET (the governor's handlers) might be a better place to start... yes/no?
There are solutions:
http://pixel420.com/pixel420/stateless/
Socialist/Progressives are NOT gonna like them!
Wow, that's f'd up. It sounds to me as though 1500 hundred workers just got served up as pawns in a very childish power struggle. I hope these retard polititians have paid up their life insurance dues. I bet it is safe to assume that there is a high probability of one of those 1500 workers being a few sandwiches short of a picnic and going postal......on a state level of course!
It sounds to me as though 1500 hundred workers just got served up as pawns in a very childish power struggle.<<<<
Fuck em. Who needs em.
The polititians? Exactly!
no worries... no useless politicians were harmed... only people who provide a real service to "We the People" were or will be fired...
How about less management? less top and middle? I think everyone can get behind that idea... to, too bad that Gneral Electric owns all those TV Stations and stories like that will never be floated.. it is a shame really.
Useless Politicians drawing exorbitant salaries serving in ineffectual Govt(s): How can you be against that? Without Big Brother pointing his gun(s) at everyone, NO Socialist/Progressive agenda is safe! </sarc>
I wouldn't assume that these "workers" are contributing anything to the economy. Most of them probably sit in comfortable chairs all day, chatting with each other and talking on their cell phones, enjoying the air conditioning and heating, and their bloated salaries and ridiculously bloated pensions, all at the expense of the dwindling supply of taxpayers that actually produce things. Laying them off will be good for everyone.
Remember what assumptions make?
Yeah. They're probably wasting time entering comments on a blog. Good thing that never happens in the private sector.
Haha! Clever, weinerdog. Thanks for that. I, however, am self-employed, and my time is my own. I post comments on blogs using a computer that I paid for, which runs on electricity that I paid for, in the air conditioned home which I paid for. The goverment workers, OTOH, work on computers which I paid for, running on electricity which I paid for, in cushy offices that I paid for. Until I hear better arguments, I'm sticking with my line on this one: Lay off all 1500 of them, plus another 1500, and that would be a decent start.
The key difference is that the private sector has to produce enough wealth to cover its waste and inefficiency while the government selects for waste through its reverse budgeting method (budgets must be spent and positions must be filled or they are lost).
I think you could fire 95% of public workers, and the only people who would notice would be the fired workers.
Exactly! And then those fired workers would have to either find jobs, or better yet would have to start a business and create some jobs. They would be forced to actually be productive, or else starve, just like the rest of us. They would have to fund their own retirement, just like the rest of us. And they would have to demonstrate some level of competence to do so, like the rest of us, so they would be motivated to improve themselves and be efficient. They would contribute to the economy instead of detracting from it. They themselves would therefore even benefit.
I'm sticking with my line here: lay off the government workers, many many of them, and the world will be a better place.
They priced Illinois 8yr munis at 5.9% yesterday or near corporate junk,
awesome productivity.
useful idiots... good to know the ads are working
Thanks,
David K
Paying 2% more for capital than any other state is productivity personified.
kick that can down the road union bot,
nothing wrong in the slightest with the obvious contradiction of government providing as much service as possible for the lowest cost,
and unions providing as little work for as high a cost as possible.
the new normal where trashman earn more than doctors,
and the avg union bot retires at 50yo with a pension and full benes.
Could you elaborate if you get a chance? I'm serious here, not trolling. Please explain who the useful idiot is, even if it's me, and what you mean by the ads. Not joking - this is a real question. If you have the time I would like to have your thoughts. TIA.
My pleasure Backspin... this is the part of the debate that burns me the most.
It's the time, money (huge), and effort put into brainwashing working class conservatives into demonizing anything progressive (remember when "liberal" was used to describe a political view... before millions were spent to convince the "useful idiots" they were socialist bogeymen) that got us to this point.
The Tea Party is not a grassroots movement... it was conceived and is funded and organized by the extreme right wing of the GOP (Reagan could never even get through the GOP nomination process under these guys... he'd be branded a socialist). They have the backing of corporate America (lots of offshore money too) and now have no limits on what they can spend (thanks to their control of the Supreme Court... at least two members are bought and paid for)... Fox News is an entire news network dedicated to the extreme right wing, that simply lies to “tell the crazies what they want to hear” 24/7.
The result is ordinary, hard working people bombarded by stories of the evils of liberal “socialism”... they're "not like us," will take your guns away, their spending caused the great recession, they kill babies, will turn your children into flaming fags, their leader is a Muslim (the attacks against the President are disgusting... they won't even accept he is American... name one other President whose citizenship was even questioned, yet the leaders of the GOP will not put an end to it... because they can get away with it for one reason, and one reason only... and it has nothing to do with his politics), etc, etc.
So, millions line up beside these pathetic excuses for human beings; go to marches, vote in Tea Party crazies (Walker and Kasich are perfect examples of Tea Party funded front men elected to do the work of their handlers... just listen to the Koch tape... Walker asks the Koch impersonator to keep the anti union / pro Walker ads going in WI... the specific ads I referenced), and vilify any and all efforts to help those in need... even when the policies they support will undermine their own well being (over time if not immediately… Obama care is basically the same program proposed by the GOP to counter Clinton's approach in the 90s, and yet today it’s a "job killing socialist plot" according to the TP... it helps millions get coverage... it's a terrible bill but all they could get in this poisonous political climate).
These are the useful idiots I speak of... I do try to focus my contempt where it belongs… on those in control, but they are in the background, slinking, counting their money, planning their next divide and conquer campaign, and never, ever surface to defend their actions. On the bright side, I believe they have finally over reached, and that the good people of America are beginning to understand, and reject, the politics of division and hate… we’ll see… it is a free country after all.
Regards,
SRV
Thanks for the reply, SRV. I won't respond here - much to think about first, and I'm going to move on to more current ZH threads. See you there. Thanks for taking the time to articulate your thoughts.
Breaking the public sector mafia unions and reducing the number of politicians... that's a win-win my friend.
"reducing the number of politicians"
Oh, man, those words are music to my ears.
We DO NOT NEED a Govt:
http://pixel420.com/pixel420/stateless/
Babylon is falling falling.....
Now Babylon I want you fi know say
I and I no blood thirsty
I and I no want no one life
But what is in the future
As Nostradamus say
No it have fi go and what Jah say it no so
And so a just so
And if you fight against the youth man of today
Man, blood a go run
Weeping and wailing and gnashing of teeth
And if you fight against the youth man of today
Man, blood a go run.
Joseph Hill
Oh so the good governor is learning to play chess now. Is this knight to queen's bishop 3?
Hardball. Endgame. Ponzi.
The Wisc. drama will be over soon. Direct deposit of the Senators paychecks has been cancelled, and they have to pick up their pay in person. One of them will show up soon to get paid.
One of the senators in Ill. gave power-of-attorney to a couple of his aides yesterday so they could go to the senate majority leader's office and pick up the checks for him...Senate majority leader promptly mailed them to the senator's house so that they couldn't.
The Union leadership will pick up the cost of hotel, hookers and blow.
Hell, it won't even be that different from their normal lobbying process.
New miniseries called "Shortin' MUNI's" is in production I hear
They should stick Dog the Bounty Hunter on the heads of these wayward Democrat politicians and bring them back hog tied together in the back of a pick up truck through the streets of Wisconsin.
Solid - after he mace's them, he can tell tell them "sorry I had to do that...go with Christ, brah."
LOL! Dog could give em all the Hawaiian surfing lingo. "Sorry bruddah"
I live on the MN / WI border and it's a crappy situation. On one hand...you have the gov't who's first order of business to cut costs is to go after the unions and teachers...
And on the other hand - these Democratic cowards in the minority flee to another state!!! What a great example of how the government should work in our country.
Proud to be an American I tell ya...
Hope you're preparing to organize and EDUCATE your local area on how/why the Great Implosion occurred...
Think it's time to buy this dip. Here goes......
TNA 81.40
So, basically Walker is saying he's going to kill the hostages.
But just a few of them!
I'm betting on another bang-the close day today.
Anybody else?
Don't stop at 1500 - can all their worthless fanny's then offer the jobs to those who've been unemployed over a year. The gravy train is over. In fact, the unions and the Dems, all by themselves, derailed it.
Beacuse of your picture... I am not going to explain why you are beyond fucking stupid... instead... start reading here, just your favorites.. the ones you like, then search the ones you dont like, then see what money flowed where and what the votes where.. http://www.opensecrets.org/
There is no real difference between a dumb fuck repulicant and a dumb fuck democrat... they are both lobby whores owned by the same dollars.
Obama is lil Bush part duex in techni color, FACT!
Wake up and smell what the two party system is cookin for people stupid enough to believe there is any difference between the two party's.
I always remind people just how close we were to having the list of past presidents end with:
reagan, bush, clinton, bush, clinton.
I mean, they don't even try to hide it to anyone with a memory longer than the life of a household pet.
I disagree. Obama is big Bush. Bush didn't think big enough with Prescription Drugs and No Child Left Undoctrinated. Obama has the big one strapped on and he's swinging it to hit us all.
+1. Michele has Obama, so Michele has a big Bush?
Just like you see in the Middle East, this will spread to the other 46 States that are currently on the brink. What we are witnessing is an end to the Government's stimulus high. They all jumped onto the government's teet and now the cow is empty.Things are going to get a lot worse as more fiscal pressure is put on States and less revenue and support rolls in. It will be like watching dominos fall, heck Wisconsin is more fiscally sound then most States. Just look at all the planned Union strikes set across America right now. From Vermont to California the entitlement mirage of a green oasis is starting to look more and more like endless hot sand with no end in sight. As hot as the burning sand will be the States becoming more protective under their 10th Amendment rights under the U.S. Constitution will be the hot topic... Count on it!
The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.
The public unions have powerful allies in the mainstream media, academica, and within the RINO clique of the GOP.
Education is the answer, but education requires an opportunity to get the message out and sadly, even Fox News (Bill O'Reilly as one example, Shepard Smith as another) refuse to explain why collective bargaining as it applies to public unions vs. government is an oxymoron. (Probably because they don't "get" why this is the case themselves!)
This is disgusting.
Enough of all this talk already..To quote the late Dale Earnhardt of Nascar fame, "dont tell me what you're going to do,tell me what you've done!"
Start making shit happen,yesturday and dont say shit about it..After 3 or 4 days of firing and laying off and slashing this and that they will get there ass's back there, period..There will be to much pressure to get back there and stop more damage..
To many he saids , she saids going on in WI.....
+100
Just do it
+ 100 more
Just do it!
They better bang the close because this market is looking weaker by the day. We were in an outstanding position to test some highs today after barrelling up through resistance yesterday... And absolutely no follow through...
Sitting right on support right now...
I think this choppy action the past 2 weeks is the top... Financials have breached the 50 dma again... not good.
This is how all the unions die. In the end, you may choose whether to have a job or go on strike, but you cannot have both. This is also how rudimentary civil liberties will die in the years to come...
Eventually, we will muster up the courage to begin collective bargaining again... but not without a few scars on our backs from the whips. And we will race to bureaucratic complexity so severe the system cannot sustain itself... and on and on and on. This battle will NEVER stop... it is fundamental in zero sum games. Someone has to get the spoils of labor and production.
There were so many ludicrous errors in that paragraph, I can't even begin to tackle all of them. But at least one needs to be singled out - work/labor/production, whatever you want to call it, assuming it is voluntary, it is a positive sum game.
You need to actually read what I wrote before responding... There may be a net positive effect from production, but when viewing the issue solely from the perspective of the positive sum, then there is a finite amount of net created from the production... this net must then be divided amonst the "productive". This division, post production, is a zero sum game. This is what we fight over... this is what we collectively bargain to obtain. Either the workers get it or their managers do... it's as simple as that. We're not talking about the act of production... we're talking about its netted conversion to a medium of exchange and division thereof. [we won't get into whether politicians, et al, actually produce anything].
Please pay attention. This about collective bargaining, not wages. The workers have already agreed to wage and benefit cuts.
This is about the ability of the employer to dictate the terms of employment... it could be anything... whether collective bargaining, wages, or being required to wear a ball gag and pink thong underwear to work... the point is WHO has the power in an environment of scarce jobs and/or scarce jobs that pay well enough to actually support any decent standard of living.
++++++
I did read it. And I read your response. And it is still wrong.
You seem to assume that there is a pre-defined post-production sum that, after post-production, needs to split up. And you need a union to fight for a piece of that pie.
But that is not how the non-union world works.
The rest of the world agrees beforehand on a method to split it up whatever pie there is, and then it is in everybody's interest to make that pie as large as possible to maximize their share, and further, to ensure that there will be more pie produced in the future.
So you can't have some idea what you're capable of producing beforehand? Really? No idea? Humans are capable of limitless production? A failure to understand this issue is partially what has caught everyone by surpise in the present macro economy... we're running head first into hard constraints. It applies just the same to the micro...
You also miss the entire premise of fund accounting. THE GOVERNMENT DOES NOT ACTUALLY PRODUCE ANYTHING... in other words, for public employees, it is patently impossible to join in together and make the pie as large as possible to maxmize their share... their pie (funding) is fixed from the beginning. And if they don't spend it all this year... You can probably expand this to all salaried employees... It's not as if bank ceo salary is based upon organic production and truly making the collective pie larger either... again, form over substance. Likewise, there is going to be a battle to the death for retirement benefits... again, shrinking pie.
And no, you don't collectively bargain on the front end of a particular unit of work and leave compensation on the back end undefined for such work and subject to further collective bargaining... in other words, your example is impossible... you know your example to be impossible... and so the question I always ask myself in this situation is, did I misread what was written? Am I taking too liberal of an approach to help myself and not giving enough credit to the author? Maybe I should re-read... [this is essentially what sasha cohen does with all his characters... preys on our natural tendencies to expect others are stupid].
I still see no argument against the basic premise that unions will always fall prey to environments where jobs are scarce... because they're ultimately posed a simple question... you can stop work and demand more pay or you can be replaced by the next guy desperate for your job... your choice. Especially for peon jobs...
PS, given varying incentive programs and our clear direction away from truly productive jobs, I'm not sure it is remotely fair to generalize the workforce as being incentivized or even able to make and/or expand pie. This seems like an academic argument at best... (ie conceived behind a volley of books and not cast in fires of the real world).
"Let's you and him fight!"
worked like a charm, didn't it .....
Obama's appointments should be clear proof to anyone willing to open their eyes. He continued all of the previous agenda and the architects of disaster Summers & Rubin. Reappoints Ben and replaces Rahm with a JPM exec. It is all right there for anyone willing to take the pill but they choose not to see it out of party alliances.
Like you, I see it the same way. I am just unsure of the outcome. Good luck getting it right, it's next to impossible trying to predict where to preserve ones wealth. The dark side clouds everything. Impossible to see the future is. ~Yoda
Operation Fleebagger Delve
4th word for 2011: 1/tenthousandth. noticing that slv is trading to the 4th decimal.
Kids, tired of hide and seek yet? Mommy made you some delicious PB&J's.
This is the current state of politics in the U.S.
lol
Market is toast next week... the more charts I look at, the more I find that are breaking down under their 50 dma.... Financials (xlf), Homebuilders (xhb), and individual large cap stocks...
I actually went a little long today after yesterday... but today has pretty much sealed the deal for me.
Time to make some more money on the VIX...
$30 million / 1500 workers = $20,000. Are they sacrificing the lifeguards?
I think Governor Walker should lay off the police force first so the real riots can start.
Wouldn't work. Governors can still deploy the National Guard. Then, the security gets much tighter than if you leave the police force working as is.
When the going gets tough, the modern unionist's get going ! Straight back across the picket line, and back to work. Usually settling for whatever gets the most senior workers the most. Watch them scramble back to work as the layoff notices become reality. They are only there because their union bosses asked them to attend. As a note. The Ohio union bill (sb5) passed.
What is the opposition going to do when the Governor is literally working for David Koch? Listen to the audio (two parts) and tell me it isn't palpably clear who works for whom:
http://www.myfoxtwincities.com/dpp/news/politics/scott-walker-20-minute-...
There are some leading candidates for best reality theater... hmm let's see
1-Texas(wiscansin) Walker
2-The Bernanke vs Ronny P and the crew
3-Gaddafi vs Interpol(?) LMAO at this one
4-Blyhte (aka Anna ((V))) vs the 5th column (US)
5-Snookie and Charlie Sheen
WTF, any watch movies anymore!!!
Ugly out there. Out @ 81.95. Just chicken today.
What are you talking about, cunthair? Just what is 81.95?
Bob, you're on the wrong website if you don't know what "out at 81.95" means.
This is a capital markets-based website. Not where the political hacks and wannabes pass gas.
If it's a secret hand shake, better lick those fingers.
If it's a trade, on the other hand, what the fuck is it? If you can take the time off being clever to help the unitiated, that is.
Of course, this has nothing to do with the budget. It's all about removing the union support for the Democratic party.
As someone who relied on Union support while running for elected office, this is why the anti-union movement exists in its present form. The unions don't support "Big R". Clearly that annoys many on this site.
I am all for unions... as long as I have the right to choose to join or not to join.
You must live in a right to work (for less) state.
Police get paid to Vote... the whole its on my lunch hour secret / joke is played out.
City Workers get paid to Vote...
Anyone with a cushy Town, City, State and / or Government Job gets paid to Vote.
So I doubt either party really wants to piss them off.
I think this proclamation by king Walker proves he is a liar. Just a week or two ago he was threatening that if he didn't get his way he was going to lay off 5,000 to 6,000 workers, now he's saying 1,500. He is wanting to give those generating plants to the Koch brothers mighty bad.
1500 TODAY. He hasn't backed off the total number. If this keeps going, more will be out.
On one hand, it's heartening to see Americans taking to the streets for action on something. On the other hand, if the state is broke, people will simply have to accept that they can't continue to be paid like they were in the past. This one is complicated, there is no real good guy to cheer for. Setting aside the actual issue, I think it's a step in the right direction overall, getting people riled up, out from in front of the idiot box, and into the streets. Hopefully, the energy can be channelled towards the issues affecting everyone, namely the cronyism and corruption.
No - taxpayers are the losers and they are tired if being taxed to provide high pay and very cushy benefits for union govt workers.
The workers have already agreed to give up wages and benefits. They are refusing to give up collective bargaining.
They can refuse or be replaced... I know millions on foodstamps who might want a shot...
Too bad those millions only know how to build housing nobody can afford and aren't qualified to teach kids or hand out traffic tickets.
Definitely. I think they just need more involvment in the american education system and then they would be transformed into really productive people (sarcasm)... Of course, that won't stop them from desperately seeking job openings in the meantime...
Keep it up, Walker you Kochsmoker. The base needs motivation and your Vader impersonation is a hoot.
Perhaps enough motivation to start an MENAUS (Middle East North Africa United States) revolution?
A lot of Kochsucking astroturfers here today.
WE ARE ALL TYLER DURDEN
It is time for Zerohedge to move beyond the financial blogoshere. It is time to enact Project Mayhem.
Our homework this week is to re-educate the masses by submitting a brief explanation of the effects of Fractional Reserve Banking to the comments section of 2 popular non-financial blogs, any blogs so long as they are non-financial & mainstream popular.
Example to cut and paste if required:
……………………………………………………………………………………………….
It's time to end Debt-Money!
Through a process known as Fractional Reserve Banking, private banks get the right to create our money out of nothing in the form of debt. This debt-money they lend out to the public as loans and the cost of which is born through-out our society.
When banks create this money they loan it out at interest, meaning that while they created it out of nothing we trade our labour and time for other peoples 'loan-tickets/debt money' to repay them. And as it is loaned at interest, it requires more debt money to be created to make the additional interest portion. As such we are locked into an ever increasing debt trap, beholden to the banks for the very money we need to pay them back while the banks profit from the fruits of our labour in the repayment of interest on make-believe money. For everyone who saves a dollar, another person must be a dollar further in debt.
More information is available through:
Money as debt:
video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-2550156453790090544#
positivemoney.co.uk
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fractional-reserve_banking
zerohedge.com
If all bank loans were paid...there would not be a dollar of coin or currency in circulation. Someone has to borrow every dollar we have in circulation. We are absolutely without a permanent money system.
Robert A. Hemphill Atlanta Federal Reserve Bank
Banks lend by creating credit. They create the means of payment out of nothing
Ralph M Hawtrey, Secretary of the Treasury, UK
Waking the masses, I have found, is like pissing in the wind. The release feels good at first, but all you end up with is back spray.
No one is hungry enough yet..
It's really what it boils down to. These revolutions were simmering under the surface for years, but until people were truly hungry, they took all manner of abuse and lived in fear. Hunger trumps fear.
Someone setting themselves on fire would be completely lost on Americans, rather than be a catalyst. It would be a minor news distraction for about 3 days. People in America have suffered, and have gone hungry, but not enough to reach critical mass.
Next thing you know they'll be bombing each other's mosques.
You're on to something there Felis C... Isn't the early spring when the Shiite sect does that big ceremony where they cut their toddlers scalps with knives so blood runs down their faces, then they dance around a bit? Any Friday now, and they'll start popping caps on one another, just like you say.
I've no sympathy for the public sector citizens in Wisconsin, Ohio, Indiana, etc who didn't prevent the election of Republican governors and Republican legislatures last November. Whether it was laziness or stupidity, the electorate got what they voted for and now they have to suffer two years of self-imposed Republican-World Hell.
P.S. to Governor Walker: Great Republican job of stuffing the budget bill with 1) taxpayer subsidies to private K-12 schools and 2) no-bid contracts to sell-off state-owned properties to private entities.
P.S. to Senator Grothman: Great Republican bullshit that the state will dump distressed assets on the private sector.
Don't get fooled by this party vs. that or this budget vs. the last. The previous regime (dem gov, dem senate, dem house) gave away lifetime revenues from casinos (potowatomi gave Mr Doyle lots of "help") and then rammed through a huge spending bill with barely a debate.
As soon as you blame either party for the disasters occuring daily in this country, you have already missed the point.
A bankster, a union member and a conservative republican are sitting down at a conference table together with a plate of a dozen cookies. The bankster takes 11 cookies and tells the conservative republican, "Hey, that other guy is going to take your cookie!"
A bankster, a union member and a liberaL democrat are sitting down at a conference table together with a plate of a dozen cookies. The bankster takes 11 cookies and the democrat is OUTRAGED. So the bankster gives 1 cookie to the democrat and now the democrat defends the bankster's way of life. Then the union member takes the last cookie, and the democrat says, "Hey, you better give me that cookie or the Republicans will take 1/2 of it from you."
SOSDP (same old shit, different party).
OK, you got me. I can't argue with a retard.
Oh...Bravo! Well played. I come up with something original (and accurate) to counter your witty (cut-and-pasted from blogs everywhere) story and you call me a tard? I cower under the weight of you intellectual power.
Piss off you fucktard.
Neither accurate or original.
A bankster, a democrat, a republican, a union member, and a conservative are sitting down at a conference table together. The con provides an oven in which the union guy prepares a plate of a dozen cookies.
The bankster takes the 12 cookies and gives two to the democrat and two to the republican. The union member is outraged and wrestles two cookies away from the bankster and gives one to the dem. The conservative is handed two cookies by the bankster, gives one to the republican, then complains that the union guy still has a cookie.
The bankster eats his four cookies, the dem his three, and the republican his three...while the union guy and con fight over whether or not they deserve to eat their cookies.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EiR1hmpk-x4
If this is the way politics in America will be done going forward, when any party knows the only way to prevent passage of austere financial measures is by fleeing, one wonders: just what is the point of the US "democratic" system when a minority can hold up the majority just by taking the first one way taxpayer funded private jet out of the state?
The two party system invalidates your vote anyway so why do you care? Is there any doubt that we live in a kleptocracy? This is just two Dukes fighting it out over who gets the serfs.
State employee unions are are just an arm of the Democratic Party. Theses folks are demanding bread and circuses and they don't give a rat's rectum about the impact on Wisconsin tax payers. THEY ARE TRUE WHORES OF THE COMMIECRAT PARTY.
Hyperbole Troll Trolls Hyperbolicly.
funny!
I am not a union booster but if I were a teacher or fire or police officer and 20 years ago I took on the job with promise of "XYZ" signed by the State - and now the State wanted to rescind their promise (contract) I would be rioting myself.
Especially after watching Wall Street get bailed out for the past two + years.
Where was all this austerity two years ago when Wall Street, GM, Chrysler, AIG, etc., etc., etc. all came begging for $$$$ ? Hmmmm?
The Republicans and the Democrats just don't get it.
The two party system has failed.
There is no solution beyond collapse of the entire system.
There is a solution to putting a stop to the Public Service unions raid on the people they purport to serve.
Just because I can't claw Lord Blankfein's compensation, or do fuckall about the tenancy of Barney Frank, a co-conspirator that lives in another state, or bill clinton for pardoning Marc Rich, doesn't mean I can't have a public servant that makes less than I do, not more, and with more and better benefits and retirement at 50.
The people in Wisconsin have spoken as is their right. The majority want the public servants reined in.
Like I said, there is no solution beyond collapse of the entire system.
The game is to yo-yo us all back and forth, make us fight amongst ourselves, as we are bled on all fronts.
It doesn't matter what Walker does, or the Demicans or Republicrats. Both sides want to keep you busy beleiving that this matters.
Tear it all down.
fine, fire 25000 or 50000 for all I care, but to take away bargaining rights leads to more top heavy corporatism and fascism than we already have.
Oh I agree with you.
However, somewhere not far down the road even if bargaining rights were kept, the Dems would "meet in the middle" with the Republicans to find a way to increase health insurance deductibles and premiums.
The average folks, union or not, will get screwed for the sake of the corporations and unions.
This is a war on the individual and the family.
It is the hegemony of the elites and has little to do with left or right.
Uber brilliant self loathing wannabee intellectualism.
Cause that is all that ever happens.
Just like the unabridged access to virtually free capital for anyone who could make an X never happened. The elites would never afford that kind of freedom to the masses.
The current 100% tax on interest income called virtual 0% interest rates is really serving the guy with a massive pile of perpetually depreciating currency well.
Moaning bitches living a better lifestyle than even your immediate ancestors could have dreamed about is all just a delusion.
meh..
From what I understand of the proposal presented to the public service workers, (and let's dispense with the notion of 'Service' once and for all, cuz that's total bullshit) they can still strike for wages, the biggest expense in the budget. From what I read they will have to contribute more to their own pensions, health insurance, and perks. A completely reasonable and frankly, too generous proposal.
Wages being off the table in Walker's proposal, is Right to Strike anytime they feel like it.
The collective bargaining that they want to preserve has been voted against by the majority. That a few politicians an stifle this initiative by leaving the state to avoid a vote on technicality because they would lose to the majority is a republican democracy nullified.
That dispensation should be the first law to be overturned or gotten around in Walker's next initiative.
I think this is a legitimate argument that contracts should be upheld. That's a big part of creating prosperity. Those contracts were bargained between two sides that benefitted so that's why they just want to junk them. Not sure if that is the right thing to do. Breaking contracts sets a bad precedent.
I agree with you.
Problem is, the most basic contracts we have are all being broken.
Property rights = gone
Shareholder rights = gone
Privacy rights = gone
If the response to the 2008 collapse was to bail out Wall Street and the Union automakers while robbing every individual taxpayer and shareholder (GM, WaMu) what more do you need to know?
the 1500 people getting layed off is for the few remaining moths of this budget year. the 5000 to 6000 will get laid off in the next budget if they don't get his current proposed budget
In this Yahoo article they literally say that " the unemployment rate is likely to rise as the labor market continues to improve ".
Bullshit meter is red lining.
http://finance.yahoo.com/news/February-jobs-report-cnnm-1097432459.html;_ylt=AtTYmb6B.zZEPJszTCam9AS7YWsA;_ylu=X3oDMTE1MmJkNG41BHBvcwM1BHNlYwN0b3BTdG9yaWVzBHNsawN1bmVtcGxveW1lbnQ-?x=0&sec=topStories&pos=2&asset=&ccode=
What is bullshit about that? The unemployment rate is coming down at present due to people leaving the workforce, the so-called discouraged workers. Things start to get better in the labor market, those same people re-enter the workforce to start looking for work. Voila, the unemployment rate rises.
It's kinda funny to me how eveyone here has latched on to the anti-union part of the problem and ignores the part of his budget where he effectively proclaims himself Emporer with the sole power to sell off state land and utilities at his whim without any bidding or consideration to accepting the highest offer. If the budget bill passes he will be arbitrarily allowed to sell any state owned utilities (of which there are quite a few) to whomever he wishes with no consideration for the best interest of the state.
Wild ass power grab much? But hey, he's trying to break the teachers union, so fist pump and cheer. Justify that insane salaries for bankers and brokers are required to keep the best talent, but raise the banners when the people who educate the entirety of the next generation get told to fuck off and find a better job.
I'm not pro union by a long shot. They evolved as a neccesary social construct but have devolved into something else entirely. That said, I thought the idea was to FIX problems, not simply outlaw their source. Republicans say Guns don't kill people (which I agree with) so we don't need to limit them in any way. Guess what, collective bargaining doesnt kill budgets either. Bad policy and shitty poletics do. Fix it. If poleticians could learn to stop grabbing money from education and properly funded pensions to glad hand for votes half the problems would be solved. Collective bargaining needs a limit, I agree. A mediation if both sindes can't come to terms. Something. Simply removing it is retrograte and will cause such a large backlash than any benefit you think you are getting from it will be meaningless.
1. Not Emperor, elected Governor....by the people
2. If the Legislature gives him the power to sell assets without bid, so be it. I may not like it either, but that's how our system works. Get rid of the offenders in the next election.
3. Collective bargaining is NOT being eliminated. (No matter how many times the Associated Press reports that it is).
1. Wrong. Emporer. Elected Governor office serves the state's best interest, not his own. Bidless sale of sate assets for no justification does not do that. It's likely he will be impeached if that part of his budget is excersized, which is why the democrats havent really fussed about it. They are letting him keep his own noose.
2. Too late. The assets may be gone and the damage to the well being of the state irreversable. The concept that damage can be done which is NOT simply reversable by the power of the free-market or democratic process is something that the idea of Libertainism seems to have no grasp of, which is why they have lost me. In such cases as environmental and long term economic and social constructs, damage done is often 10 times harder to reverse, if it can be at all.
3. Yes, it effectively is. By placing limits on what and how you can bargain for that have no intellectual moderation, you eliminate the possibility that the bargain is either fair or even realistic. Remember the "wall street" salaries issue? How about we arbitrarily limit the growth of their salaried to the clearly manipulated inflation figure published by the agency you all hate and mistrust? Good luck. When the banks profit the bonuses should reflect that are good talent will leave. How about limiting the collective bargaining to a tangible set of benchmarks in performance determined by the public? Teachers suck? They can't bargain for a raise. Teachers excel and elevate the achievements of the population as a whole? Pay them for it.
Nah. "down with unions! We let them become corrupt political bargaining chips, so now lets destroy them because we don't have the balls or the intellect to fix them!"
Impeach Walker if he sells assets. Fine. That is a legal process they are entitled to initiate. Go for it.
Who are you to say what's in the State's interest. He was elected by the people, and he will face the voters again. You think I was happy with Obamacare being jammed through the Congress against the popular will? Nope. But I understand our system and will exercise my franchise at the appropriate time.
"Effectvely"? Please. If I eat filet mignon today and need to eat macaroni and cheese tomorrow, I won't starve to death...not even "effectively".
Questions: Is it objectionable to you if workers are required to pay union dues with a check instead of through withholding? How about an annual vote to recertify the union? How about allowing workers the choice to join or not? Why would the unions be against these reforms if they are so great for their members?
Impeachment won't get back what he sells. Nor will it be simple or plausible to undo other damage he is doing on a scale thats productive.
I have no problem with anything you've suggested. I said I'm not pro -union. They are in the wrong protesting reasonable measures. That doesn't mean they are un-redeemable. The Republicans argue that guns don't kill people, people kill people., and access to firearms should be unrestrained. I more or less agree with this, but I keep my axioms across the board. Do not outlaw something that was productive and became corrupt. FIX IT. I do not believe anyone should be forced to join a union. I have no problem requiring re-certification. Checks should be fine.
I have a problem with arbitrarily removing the right to collectively bargain for pay. If the free market is so wonderful, then why should you need to? If unions bargain their way out of a job, then so be it. The union is the ultimate expression of the free market. If corporate entities can organize to utilize their power and influence to their benefit and thats a free market, I fail to see how workers doing the same is NOT a force for the ree market. FIX the problem. Don't simply try to make it illegal to HAVE the problem.