World's Largest Commodity Hedge Fund And Andrew Hall Taken To Cleaners On Last Week's Energy Plunge

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Sun, 05/08/2011 - 21:52 | 1254342 bob_dabolina
bob_dabolina's picture

Well he didn't eat shit like the guys running Amaranth (Hall was on the other side of that bollocks of a trade)

I think this guy made a billion dollars for Enron though my history of that fiasco has fogged over time.

Sun, 05/08/2011 - 21:56 | 1254360 mynhair
mynhair's picture

You could use a cleaning, ya know?  PHEW!

Sun, 05/08/2011 - 23:40 | 1254570 Oracle of Kypseli
Oracle of Kypseli's picture

These are the guys that Ben wants to punish most. Most stock funds are cooperating with the FED and playing roulette with the money of the unsuspecting 401k owners

If not, that's an example of what they may do to you.

Sun, 05/08/2011 - 21:49 | 1254343 kato
Mon, 05/09/2011 - 00:02 | 1254612 Manthong
Manthong's picture


Sun, 05/08/2011 - 21:52 | 1254345 topcallingtroll
topcallingtroll's picture

Very misnamed.

Unhedged funds is more like it.

Sun, 05/08/2011 - 22:32 | 1254427 knukles
knukles's picture

"Savy", "hedge" and "taken to the cleaners".


Mon, 05/09/2011 - 07:54 | 1254910 Thomas
Thomas's picture

BTW-What's with all the pathetic math? Five-standard deviation move? Time to get new models if anybody believes that would be observed.

Sun, 05/08/2011 - 21:50 | 1254348 Yen Cross
Yen Cross's picture

If I MAY oblige. What are the margin levels on this FUND!

Sun, 05/08/2011 - 21:51 | 1254349 Mentaliusanything
Mentaliusanything's picture

I hope is was their money? - but of course it is. I don't remember why we need these suits that make nothing, produce nothing and are nothing. Parisites are always deadly to the host.

Sun, 05/08/2011 - 22:33 | 1254431 knukles
knukles's picture

In today's financial kleptocracy, all money is their money.

Sun, 05/08/2011 - 21:53 | 1254354 Yen Cross
Yen Cross's picture

Sensational Bantar. Those wanabe Thespians!

Sun, 05/08/2011 - 21:53 | 1254355 Atomizer
Atomizer's picture

I'll bet he's now reading Harvey & Turd. Mumbling under his breath, FUBM.

Sun, 05/08/2011 - 21:57 | 1254357 Lord Welligton
Lord Welligton's picture

Oh deary me.

Did the young ones just get taken out.

What a shame.

Still life is long.

They will grow up.

Sun, 05/08/2011 - 21:59 | 1254361 eigenvalue
eigenvalue's picture

Has silver stablised? Or the correction is not over yet? I'm confused.

Sun, 05/08/2011 - 22:07 | 1254379 geminiRX
geminiRX's picture

Hopefully silver spikes then makes a low near mid June,

Mon, 05/09/2011 - 00:17 | 1254639 Creed
Creed's picture

what is Martin Armstrongs track record on calling the precious metals prices?


by geminiRX
on Sun, 05/08/2011 - 22:07


Hopefully silver spikes then makes a low near mid June,

Mon, 05/09/2011 - 06:10 | 1254815 Gavrikon
Gavrikon's picture

It does appear to be attempting it this morning.

Sun, 05/08/2011 - 21:58 | 1254363 mynhair
mynhair's picture

Harcourt Fenton Mudd III runs the best fund.

Mon, 05/09/2011 - 11:19 | 1255559 Ident 7777 economy
Ident 7777 economy's picture

+1 (Original Star Trek character ref for those not following)

Sun, 05/08/2011 - 22:02 | 1254376 Billy Shears
Billy Shears's picture

Does this call for a: Normalcy bias, bitchezzz?

Sun, 05/08/2011 - 22:32 | 1254383 Zero Govt
Zero Govt's picture

AUM for those who don't know means 'Assets Under Management'

or in this case is now 'AUW' ..Assets Under Water!

TD regards your comment, "..savviest investors become a momo chasing herd.." it's maybe a bit harsh considering the disgusting sudden (multi-shock!!!!) rule changing CME margin fiasco. I've heard alot of comments regards this correction casually say it's "removing weak hands" from some 'respectable' investors i tune into. That is an insidious statement to make

These were perfectly sound investors investing on an established margin basis who were literally machine gunned by their business floor being shot away from under them in 8 scandalous days. The CME are an utter disgrace of an exchange and i truly hope all who were shot to pieces join and sue the shambolic Crimex into the ground 

It is Hedgies job to chase the herd BTW, that's how you make money. Although one US Hedgy on CNBC this week when asked was he 'in' or pulling money off the table replied he was 85% invested as that was his "rules", to be 85% invested at all times

That's fuking scary to have such a stupid (inflexible) rule! I'd withdraw money from any fund that forces a ratio and ties your hand particuarly in bear market times

Sun, 05/08/2011 - 22:32 | 1254430 earnulf
earnulf's picture

I have to agree with ZG, this entire takedown (let's call it what it was) was predicated on a change in how the game is played.   Nothing fundamental changed, the refs just decided to make up a new rule and threw a flag.   Of course the shorts, probably knew beforehand and really cleaned house while the longs had to take it up the you know what and wait for the screaming to die down.   The shorts know they don't have the best team on the field and the longs are going to eventually kick their a-- up and down the field, so they get the refs to throw them a flag or two to make it look interesting and so they can breath.


Nothing like a silver team to take one's breath away, especially when they are so physical

Sun, 05/08/2011 - 22:52 | 1254456 Zero Govt
Zero Govt's picture

there are already a number of experts saying there was zero commercial justification for CME's orgy of vandalism..

...and here we are with powerful reasons (bankruptcies, people losing their jobs, money, some lifetime savings) to counter such foot-loose rule/game changing 

CME shot the floor from under the markets feet like some drunken hot-head Chicago gangster ...they should have been more responsible and professional in their rule changes not to increase price volatility and realised the vandalism and carnage they would create with 5 margins in 8 days

at best this was a shambles of business practice at worst it was as you say a 'take down' (deliberate)

watch CME's current advert on CNBC about "helping farmers managing risk" about these Hedgies that have lost jobs, their investors that have lost money and the private investors who've lost savings???

Sun, 05/08/2011 - 23:15 | 1254509 ejhickey
ejhickey's picture

Ever see the ad for Lind Waldock that says investing in commodities is better than investing in the stock market because it just involves supply and demand with no counter party risk?   Guess they forgot about the CME, CFTC and the Fed.

Sun, 05/08/2011 - 23:37 | 1254561 seek
seek's picture

Given that a competing exchange is starting to ramp up, I wonder how much of this was "getting while the getting is good." I.E. the window of opportunity to hose people for the bank's benefit may be coming to a close. Akin the Hunt fiasco, one has to wonder where the stakes were in this game.

The next step will probably be something that makes it harder to use an alternate exchange, which amounts to veiled capital controls.

Mon, 05/09/2011 - 00:53 | 1254678 ThreeTrees
ThreeTrees's picture

Good points...

Sun, 05/08/2011 - 22:13 | 1254394 Billy Shears
Billy Shears's picture

I mean really, can't it be argued that the world is on the cusp of the greatest deflationary event/spiral in all economic history? And that, as we all know, is precisely the reason for the Fed and all the other central banks world-wide printing avoid aforementioned collapse? And, in the absence of said printing, couldn't all commodity prices, especially oil, go meaningfully lower in price...if the fed ever stops printing or just fail in it's efforts to re-inflate the greatest bubble of all time.

Sun, 05/08/2011 - 22:17 | 1254405 Tyler Durden
Tyler Durden's picture


Sun, 05/08/2011 - 23:02 | 1254484 Yen Cross
Yen Cross's picture

Well done from a Yank! FIVE paragraphs above solidify our approach! KEEP up the FINE WORK  Tyler.

Sun, 05/08/2011 - 23:09 | 1254499 rocker
rocker's picture

+10  "If" only has value after we have Zimbabwe dollars and if our economy looks like Japan. Whoops....did I say "if".

  My Bad.  We are Japan now.

Mon, 05/09/2011 - 00:33 | 1254657 Goldenhands57
Goldenhands57's picture

Exactly! And the crux of this is printing MUST end at some point. It becomes pointless to continue. Not to have any soft spot for the guy..but Bernankster has to be totally aware this has a very bad ending no matter which way he goes. So IF is not IF but WHEN!!!! WHEN TSHTF...because it is not even a debate now, hopefully there are enough aware "non fools" deep enough in physical holdings to reconstruct after the carnage. Those with actual physical wealth backing our offers with PM for value investments will be the one's who MAY be able to reconstruct this Republic to something less than but closer to where we are heading now. We must do our part when that time comes. By encouraging all I know to purchase and hold on to at least some Gold and Silver coin to protect themselves...not simply trust this will "all work out"; I hope to help the future younger folks not fall into destitution. Those of you that are aware, it would be well to speak openly now to the younger generations that it is prudent to hold this defense. Even junk 90%  silver at whatever few they may afford is a good start. 2 less Latte's a more 64 Kennedy..ect    

Sun, 05/08/2011 - 22:23 | 1254414 Spitzer
Spitzer's picture

Did the Thai Baht rise in 1997 ?

Get your head out of your deflationist ass.

(The baht went from 25 to 58 when the printing STOPPED.)

Sun, 05/08/2011 - 22:45 | 1254462 Hephasteus
Hephasteus's picture

That's because the people store value in dollars and gold.

All it take is a few more people in US diving into gold and silver to explode our currency.

People don't want to do it because they prefer the psycho be out killing people in far off lands. But what they don't understand is people in far off lands are going to mess up the gold and silver markets here anyway. And after the psycho is done hurting everybody it will detach into IMF and hurt everyone anyway.

Sun, 05/08/2011 - 23:50 | 1254596 Spitzer
Spitzer's picture

That's because the people store value in dollars and gold.


The USD in 1997 is not the same USD now.

All it take is a few more people in US diving into gold and silver to explode our currency.

and  the Euro or the Franc. People will slowly find out that the myth that even Austrians and keynesians agree on, is bullshit. That myth is that the US dollar is the least worst fiat in the world.


Mon, 05/09/2011 - 00:08 | 1254626 AUD
AUD's picture

The USD in 1997 is not the same USD now

Too true, the USD gold price slowly fell all throughout the Asian Financial Crisis. The UST market was 'rock solid' then, even if built on shakey foundations. The same cannot be said now & since 2008 it has become exponentially worse.

That doesn't stop the odd speculation in government credit however, especially when the sharks sense central bank weakness. Has anyone seen a photo of Masaki 'Easy' Shirakawa? That guy has chump written all over him.

Mon, 05/09/2011 - 00:47 | 1254671 Hephasteus
Hephasteus's picture

Which is why thailand is the most expensive spot on the planet for gold. Because they USED to hold dollars and gold. Then when holding dollars got them hungry they dumped them.

Mon, 05/09/2011 - 04:17 | 1254784 ZeroPower
ZeroPower's picture

Did seriously just bring up the Asian currency crisis by brining up the "rise" of the Baht?

Mon, 05/09/2011 - 09:25 | 1255167 Spitzer
Spitzer's picture

I was just showing that using deflatinist logic, the Thai baht should have risen in 1997 but it fell.


Mon, 05/09/2011 - 01:25 | 1254707 bid the soldier...
bid the soldiers shoot's picture

I love your recipe for the economy. I know a variation of it that'll knock your socks off.

Just add a couple of spoonfuls of 'peak oil.' Yum yum.

Mon, 05/09/2011 - 07:06 | 1254846 DrunkenMonkey
DrunkenMonkey's picture

A deflationary spiral coupled with fewer (and harder to extract) natural resources ?

I can see that.

Sun, 05/08/2011 - 22:13 | 1254401 Hephasteus
Hephasteus's picture

If the bastard wasn't liquidated he'll be up 5 frikkin percent in a couple weeks.

Sun, 05/08/2011 - 22:23 | 1254419 buzzsaw99
buzzsaw99's picture

They got their 2 and 20, it was great while it lasted.

Sun, 05/08/2011 - 22:52 | 1254468 firstdivision
firstdivision's picture

That's the beauty.  If they make the fund money they get extra paid, if not...well they still get paid quite well. 

Sun, 05/08/2011 - 23:07 | 1254495 buzzsaw99
buzzsaw99's picture

The beauty is that they get 20% of the paper profits in a good year but share none of the losses in the bad. The 2, as you say, is theirs no matter what.

Sun, 05/08/2011 - 22:26 | 1254421 Keith Piccirillo
Keith Piccirillo's picture

Maybe their loss is GlenCore's gain?

Mon, 05/09/2011 - 13:43 | 1256111 tiger7905
tiger7905's picture

Some interesting comments by Don Coxe on how the Glencore underwriting affected commodities.

Sun, 05/08/2011 - 22:34 | 1254432 Billy Shears
Billy Shears's picture

Liquidy trap? Nothing grows to the sky. Hedge funds go with the momentum but really is only just a shadow your chasing, I wouldn't pay it any mind...hey Mr. Tamborine man play a song for me...when the music stops and all these commodity prices are kited sky high who is really going to pay for all this? No, the conventional wisdom is inflation, sure. And maybe the historical records confirm this but the world economy is already dead, it's just presently on life support. Prices will come crashing down again and further.

Sun, 05/08/2011 - 22:35 | 1254435 TooBearish
TooBearish's picture

21st century Hedge Fund = massively leveraged beta

Sun, 05/08/2011 - 22:35 | 1254442 Billy Shears
Billy Shears's picture

The thai baht going to 58 would be good for the importers in Thailand but the exporters would suffer.

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