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You Knew This Was Coming- It's Like a Witch Hunt, But With More Toyotas and Less Broom Sticks
Tag, and Toyota's it. Right or wrong- this recall thing is getting big, bigger rather, and it's increasingly more and more political as the days unfold.
In an article published by the Associated Press- documents relating to an internal company presentation back in July, 2009 were uncovered to the congressional investigators that claim that Toyota officials saved the company some $100 million by negotiating with the government on a limited recall of the floor mat issue involving 55,000 Camry and Lexus ES350 sedans back in September, 2007.
"The savings are listed under the title, "Wins for Toyota -- Safety Group." The document cites millions of dollars in other savings by delaying safety regulations, avoiding defect investigations and slowing down other industry requirements.
The documents could set off alarms in Congress over whether Toyota put profits ahead of customer safety and pushed regulators to narrow the scope of recalls. Two House committees are holding hearings this week on the Japanese automaker's recall of 8.5 million vehicles in recent months to deal with safety problems involving gas pedals, floor mats and brakes.
The world's largest automaker has been criticized for responding too slowly to complaints of sudden acceleration in its vehicles, threatening to undermine its reputation for quality and safety.
The documents were turned over to the House Oversight and Government Reform Committee and obtained by The Associated Press on Sunday. The presentation was first reported by The Detroit News."
Toyota is not immediately commenting.
The Associated Press article published on Yahoo continues-
"The new documents show the financial benefit of delay. In the presentation, Toyota said a phase-in to new safety regulations for side air bags saved the company $124 million and 50,000 man hours. Delaying a rule for tougher door locks saved $11 million.
On defect regulations, the document boasts that Toyota "avoided investigation" on rusting Tacoma pickup trucks. The National Highway Traffic Safety Administration investigated the case in 2008 but closed it without finding a safety defect. Toyota agreed to buy back certain rusty pickups, inspect other and extend warranties.
The document lists seven "Wins for Toyota & Industry," including "favorable recall outcomes," "secured safety rulemaking favorable to Toyota" and "vehicles not in climate legislation." Another page lists "key safety issues," including "Sudden acceleration on ES/Camry, Tacoma, LS etc."
In one passage, the document says Toyota "negotiated 'equipment' recall on Camry/ES re SA; saved $100M+, w/ no defect found."
NHTSA had launched an investigation in March 2007 over allegations that floor mats were interfering with accelerator pedals. Toyota told the government a month later that there was "no possibility of the pedal interference with the all-weather floor mat if it's placed properly and secured."
By that August, the government had connected the problem to a dozen deaths and a survey of 600 Lexus owners discovered 10 percent reported sudden or unexpected acceleration. But the recall in September 2007 was limited to 55,000 Camry and ES350 vehicles to replace the floor mats.
The 10-page internal presentation was dated July 6, 2009, less than two months before a high-speed crash near San Diego killed a California highway patrol officer and his family and reignited concerns over sudden acceleration in Toyotas."
In October, 2009- Toyota issued its largest ever recall involving some 4 million cars over concerns of pedals getting jammed with the floor mats.
The internal presentation lists Yoshi Inaba, Toyota's Chief in North America. Inaba is scheduled to testify before the House Energy and Commerce Committee this Wednesday, along with (he finally agreed to join) Akio Toyoda- the President and grandson of the founder.
The government also reported today that it is already investigating reports of sudden acceleration in Toyota vehicles when auto insurers shared complaints about the issue, dating back to cars circa 2002, 2003.
"Reports of deaths in the U.S. connected to sudden acceleration in Toyota vehicles have surged in recent weeks, with the toll of deaths allegedly attributed to the problem reaching 34 since 2000, according to new consumer data gathered by the U.S. government."
None of this should come to the surprise to anyone who understands the politics and who really is at stake here.
Have a great Sunday night everyone.
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I'm glad I'm not the only one who recognized this crap. Every time I point out that there is nothing but a witch hunt going on, people say "But there ARE safety issues." Lets just nevermind the fact it's taken 10 years to find 20 badly performing whatevers, which statistically means it's probably not the manufacturing that is even to blame. I'm so sick of the government assassinating Toyota, and I've never bought one in my life. You'd think the government owned stock in the competition or something.
You take the population of vehicles in the field (A) and multiply it by the probable failure rate (B), then multiply the result by the average cost of an out of court settlement (C).
A times B times C equals X. This is what it will cost if we don't initiate a recall.
If X is greater than the cost of the recall, we recall the cars and no one gets hurt.
If X is less than the cost of the recall, then we don't recall.
But I'm working toward a career as a dishwasher.
-the Narrator
"Companies care about one thing: per-unit cost (how you measure that is another discussion entirely)."
Toyota: If GM is doing it, why can't we?
Gov't: A threat to perceived national security! To the internment camps!
---
Citibank is getting ready for something:
http://www.businessinsider.com/citigroup-warns-customers-it-may-refuse-t...
Thank you so so much Water, I was really expecting this but now that it's in black and white ... I've got to act ... all my bank money to cash (some gold), then to safe places. There is no such thing as interest any more, so why not keep it in cash and equivalents?
I saw the same Citi story earlier this weekend, MAYBE the key wording is that the wording was for their Texas customers only (they pointed out).
Nonetheless, I went and took out $500 from my (BofA) ATM this weekend as well.
If TSHTF, you won't go wrong with gold, silver and enough paper $ to get you through the first 3 months.
For the more dynamic ZHers, you might look at lead and lead delivery systems, I am looking REAL HARD at buying some of that while it is still possible...
Mos def check out FN/FAL, or preferably the M1A. Then get (5) 200-round battle packs of 7.62X51mm. Some high quality .308 for four-legged critters. The former for two-legged predators. A nice, scoped bolt-action .308 would be good to, as a secondary.
Actually I am thinking 7.62 x 39mm (AK-47, simple and reliable, idiot-proof) and a 9mm Beretta. Maybe 300 hundred rounds apiece.
And leave it at that!
Yeah, AK is the most reliable firing gun. Plus, you can probably get one for 500 bucks or so. Just get a Romanian AK and you'll have a great gun!
.762 rounds are big and have a lot of stopping power.
Technically the AR-15 or M16 is better and more accurate, but the AK will fire no matter what you do to it and requires less maintenance.
Not a bad way to go - very inexpensive as well. I highly recommend 1,000 of each for long-term...and put a 1,000 of each, into each, as practice - marksmanship is a perishable skill. The day you need to use them it will test your will and preparations to protect yourself - without confidence of being able to hit your mark, under pressure, you will end up just pissing your pants and losing your life.
Here's a great article:
http://www.lewrockwell.com/maloney/maloney19.1.html
If you get an AR15, you can convert the gun to also fire .22 rounds, saving you a TON on ammo when you practice (30-35 cents a round!)
Also, the AR-15 can have a .308 upper receiver installed as well. You're probably looking at 1000-1500 bucks, but then you have practicing covered (and shoot .22 rounds if you'd rather do that at intruders) or shoot big holes in things with the .556 rounds.
Then, when it's time to hunt, change out the upper receiver, throw on your .308 barrel with scope, and you're all set for deer hunting, or or long range sniping, depending on your objectives.
The only drawback is the cleaning...
Funny how CONgress can't get to the bottom of financial fraud in two years, but quickly finds a base with Toyota transgressions.....
"Funny how CONgress can't get to the bottom of financial fraud in two years"
Two years?! They are participating.
Travis, you can't hide your bias for Toyota. Why don't you let the investigation play out before you claim you know that this is a simple political event?
I'm sure there are people out there who know someone impacted by one of these issues that would not be as quick to write this off as entirely politically motivated.
In general your posts are marginal...they don't really help the site..
double posting - please delete
Well I don't see you add anything, and quite frankly I am happy to read this post from a financial/political perspective as opposed the way it is being packaged by the US media, who are mostly owned by the same corporations who sponsor the Govt etc, etc.
How many Toyota problems in how many miles????? This story has no legs no matter how you look at it (if you can do the math........if you can't go somewhere else). Toyota bashing is 101% political hogwash from Obamanoids who have their brains in formaldehyde.
His bias is immaterial. The content of his arguments are still sound.
Well, considering what you paid for the information, I'm guessing you an asshole.
Not sure if you mentioned the Mitsubishi motor parallel but its very similar, the cover ups, etc ... only the climate now warrants a probe of French proportions ... anything to distract the public.
Didn't CTS, an Indiana company, make the part?
Toyota ought to fire with guns blazing if Congress goes after them. Racism, xenophobia, and good old corruption with the government owning GM and Chrysler. Oh, and the gov't is f-ing up the economy. Trust us, we've seen this first hand for the past 20 years in Japan. Oh, and some guy just flew a plane into your IRS office in part due to the auto bailouts.
Also, point out that some "Japanese" cars actually have a higher American labor & parts component than some "American" cars.
japs just need to drop a small UST bomb to send the proper message to those pigs in CONgress. Look for it to happen soon.
Lets just say they do, what exactly do you see happening?
Gold goes higher, dozer.
To think I bought a Toyota when I could have got a top-heavy Ford Explorer with exploding Firestone tires.
One has to understand, when you buy cars like Toyotas, the money doesn't stay here, in the US. And guess what, that cash for clunkers program, same deal. People bought mostly foriegn cars, and not the Detroit cars. No wonder people are pissed off, know wonder it has become polictical. We just don't have a clue in this country.
Wife's paycheck stays here in America. Thank God she works for a company that still makes the best cars overall in the world.
no car manufacturers are immune to defective products. That being said, case against Toyota is timely and orchestrated all in favor of domestic car makers.
Toyota knew this was going to be the case as far back as 2008 when they were eclipsing GM as #1 car maker.
I drive a GMC pickup truck that gets about 20 miles to the gallon on the highway.
I call it 'my toyota crusher'
My plan is to weld spikes and a cow catcher and jousting arms to it. I'm going to build it into my dream Mad Max Scenario vehicle.
-MobBarley
>gets about 20 miles to the gallon on the highway.
>I'm going to build it into my dream Mad Max Scenario vehicle.
What a great idea - 20 mpg for the Mad Max scenario in which gasoline is scarce.
Hehehe, I feel the same way about my Hummer, only it get's 12 mpg. It will crush any other car on the road though : )
The wife's F150 King Ranch is nearly as intimidating. Lovely truck, heated leather seats.
Never a recall on either.
I saw a few protesters outside the local Toyota dealership holding signs saying that Toyota kills jobs in California.
According to the UAW:
(from http://www.uaw.org/solidarity/10/0110/uf05.php)
People can decide for themselves if union support of the current administration and gov't ownership of GM has anything to do with the media coverage of the recalls.
I merely point out that it is interesting to observe which recent events get a great deal of 'news' coverage and which disappear totally after a day or two.
How about the struggle between the administration and the new government of Japan? The Japanese are trying to gain a small semblance of independence, and this is not going over well in DC. The rumor mill has it that Rahm Emmanuel is behind the Chicago approach to US-Japanese diplomacy, and Toyota is a convenient hostage.
can Toyota just shadddap about their holy self of safety?? just make cars and most people will let this go... but to keep hiding things so you can lie and say how safe is just trash
One has to understand, most people will look for the best value for their money. Not everyone will buy a POS just because it helps pay the Ford family dividend. And US autoworkers have demonstrated that they aren't willing to sacrifice to save the auto manufacturers, why should the consumer?
this is sooo ass. willing to sacrifice?? what? tell health care to sacrifice and you bring down the benefit costs and thus labor costs..how is it the union's fault that health care goes to the moon and they have to sacrifice??? go tell the gold bugs that if gold goes to $8,000 they have to give 70% of it back to the public since no one else betted on it..
bunch of fucking fools
waxman is 1 ugly mofo
Ford makes sociopathic decision to let people with pinto's burn instead of fixing them.
Now toyota does it.
Conclusion, sociopaths can get good jobs in corporate america because they are frugal and help out profits.
Used to believe almost exclusively in the Peter Principle (people rise to the level of their incompetence) with regard to our society. After witnessing, at least, the last decade, I have had to modify this view (and, therefore, can no longer call it the Peter Principle).
People rise either: 1) to the level of their incompetence or 2) inversely proportionally to their level of conscience (or directly proportionally to their level of sociopathy, if you choose).
You seem like a nice young man. You make the warm glowing commercials and draw the people to me. So I can stab them. We'll work together. LOL Good-Evil Synergy.
Quite a distraction from CONgress being critisized for bank bailouts and corruption in gerneral. Just a coincidence, I'm sure.
a post about toyota, and no car pics. i don't blame you, who wants to look at boring toyotas. oh wait... its a top of the line avalon... with the floor mats in the trunk...
http://www.autospies.com/images/users/Agent009/main/Southlake%20Toyota%20Crash.JPG
Isn't it fewer broomsticks, not less broomsticks?
The problem is that real engineering in the real world always involves tradeoffs. Weight for speed for safety for cost for efficiency for performance for appearance for payload for comfort....with each particular model, there is a particular balance.
And yes, safety is in there. When the US Government mandated CAFE mileage standards, they intentionally sentenced 2000 people to death each year -- lighter, more fuel-efficient cars don't have the mass to soak up shocks. With half the mass, and the good-ol' F=ma equation, you get twice the acceleration, no matter how much you vote to the contrary or wish differently.
In a sane world, people could knowingly make the tradeoffs they desired -- some would get something sporty, some would rather just sip gas, some would get every safety device, some would get every bit of comfort -- and the government would accept that this is the nature of free people in a free market. Instead, companies are crucified at government whim when sporty cars get lousy mileage, comfy cars hold up traffic while doing a 10-minute quarter mile, and economical car manufacturers worry about keeping the cost of safety to a minimum.
You obviously do not understand physics.
If you have half the mass, then you would have half the force. (of impact)
It's not like your car would accelerate at twice the speed just because it has half the mass.
The force never stays constant, as it is a function of the multiple of M and A. By decreasing the M, you decrease the F.
It's not like decreasing M increases A automatically.
In other words, you'd need to do 120 in a 2000 (240000 joules) pound car, or 60 in a 4000 pound car (240000 joules) to receive the same force impact.
The 4000 pound car is less safe because people will actually go 60 in it.
I lived in Japan for eight years, started my own business, etc. I love Japan, love the people, but they have been hiding/denying this kind of stuff forever. Japanese constantly tell you the "Consumer is King".....total bs, try going to a store and returning something, huge hassle often not even possible.
Lastly I worked for an engineering company that was hired to evaluate hospital waste being burned near the clients location ( suspected of causing birth defects), since we couldn't get permission to get on the premises, had to use a laser, but the Japanese built a wall to stop us, we left came back with an extension. they built the wall higher!
Aww shitty japanese they build wall too high...I go round.
I own a Ford that had a recall in 2009.There were 16 million vehicles involved in that recall, which had to do with the cruise control harness starting a fire in over 500 vehicles. Why is it that this didn't make the headlines in 2009 as Toyota has now? Why is it that the Secretary of Transportation didn't say "son't drive it" as a nice soundbite for the evening news, as he did about Toyota? The answer is unions. Toyota is not unionized, and the fascists are after them for it. They already confiscated the property rights of senior secured debt holders at GM. With all those SEIU visits to the WH, they are pushing the healthcare bill. This is the thuggerizing of the country.
Akio Toyoda *is* Hank Rearden incarnate
Camrys, Avalons,Solaras and Siennas are made in Georgetown,Kentucky. Tundras and Sequoias are made in Princeton Indiana or the new plant in San Antonio Texas. Tacomas and Corollas are made in Freemont, California. Other Toyota vehicles are made in Huntsville, Alabama and Toyota is building a Prius plant in Mississippi. Toyota has 4000 parts suppliers from Vermont to California ranging from homelink systems to steering wheels! The auto industry is a global industry and if you took away Toyotas's contribution to America it would be devastating.
G.M. America versus Toyota America
Toyota has sunk roots, both economic and political, into the U.S., building factories in several southern and mid-western states, and forging close ties with powerful lawmakers -- including some on the committees charged with investigating the company. Those roots are now so deep that, just as Michigan's delegation reliably goes to bat for its hometown automakers, Toyota has its own, more far-flung stable of heavy-hitting backers. It's now not so much the USA versus Japan, as it is G.M. America versus Toyota America.
http://tpmmuckraker.talkingpointsmemo.com/2010/02/toyotas_deep_american_...
This whole acceleration fiasco is just another example of how clueless people have become. They demand more electronics in their cars therefor they become more complex. Complexity means more possibility for problems.
If your car accelerates on you, just put it into neutral and pull over. If you don't know enough to put the car into neutral in this situation, maybe you have no business on the road.
Driving a car is serious business. Your life and the lives of others are continually on the line. You have to have at least a rudimentary idea how a car works.
Who is really responsible here?
i'm sick and fracking tired of all this. Screw yourself and then try and unscrew yourself by screwing everyone else. By doing this, in the end everyone is screwed.
Wouldn't it be more efficient to just introduce tariffs to support local car production rather than take this attack. This is nothing more than an attempt to cripple toyota worldwide....to take out the opposition to the US own interests in the US motor industry. This will end the same for the US as did Vietnam, Iraq and now Afganistan - everyone screwed!
No, it will end with the Democrat losing and looking like the bozo he's always been.
TOYOTA ---> Feeling the wrath of the UAW and the Obama Administration. They're up against the Chicago mob run Government Motors!
It is WORSE than that!
Japan has refused to renew a refuel contract with USA MIL that would help support the ongoing Afghan war
Japan want the US MIL bases out of their country because near the base is higher crime and USA MIL have raped Japanese women.
Of course then there is the conflict of interest with US Gov owning a few US can manufacturers and UAW pandering where during the bankruptcy/restructuring of debt President Obama himself SLANDERED owners of debt (teachers, law enforcement, etc) whose retirement/investment funds had an interest with these USA auto manufacturers and Obama wanted them to settle for LESS than what is legally due them. Because they would not settle for far less, Obama SLANDERED these legally due debt owners on NATIONAL TV.
Maybe they should re-think the Nobel Peace Prize? Ever since he won it ,there has been more tension with other countries then ever. I wonder who will show up at the treasury auctions? NOBODY! Looks like the FED will have to re-lease the theater for their next performance of " Dog And Crony Show" Part 2. kEeP It Up aNd wE wIlL FiNd OrSeLvEs On ExIle IslAnD! FrIcKeN dIP StIcKs....
Fuck you GM Ownin' Barry Obama and your pal Stevie "The Chrysler Rat" Rattner
I am still buying Toyota...
And to you sloganeering "Buy American" morons... Quit making substandard defective trash and I WOULD buy it...
Disclosure: If I owned a car...
THOSE EVIL JAPANESE!!! BOE!!! BOE!!!
This hardball approach vis-a-vis Japan is based on the assumption that Japan has no where else run. They've got a country a few hundred k's off their coast with a population 10 times larger they invaded, raped and pillaged just a few decades ago and the Chinese have a very long memory. The Russians? Ha! They're still at war with each other over territorial claims. The Nipponese have no where to hide. Unless they've got some ultra modern laser technology up their kimono sleeve to fight a war on their own they will just have endure Uncle Sugar's whippings while hiding from others behind his big stick.
Thanks Obama for insuring that I will never buy a Ford, GM or Chrystler. Toyota has its issues but the cars will last for a decade easily. That can't be said for many generations of American cars. If anything it will tell toyota to drop its expansion plans and to focus on improved quality that will hurt the american auto companies even more in the long run
+100 - but who care about the long run...
"Toyota officials saved the company some $100 million by negotiating with the government on a limited recall"
So the Government is investigating Toyota, because Toyota negotiated with the GOVERNMENT a way to save toyota money. If they broke the law, sure they should be punished (but so should everyone else that broke the same laws). But if the Government was complicit in what they were doing, wtf grounds does the same government have for being upset with it?
Ubelievable.
Sudden acceleration.....hmmm...sure we're not talking about mid-80's Audi here?
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