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Zero Hedge Endorses David Rosenberg's Demand To "Ban The Bailout"
Zero Hedge fully endorses David Rosenberg's latest call: Ban The Bailout
First we have governments bailing out banks (and auto companies and mortgage providers), homeowner debtors, and now we have governments bailing out governments. When does someone finally say — enough is enough!
Look, Greece is not going to “fail”. They are going to default. There will be a debt restructuring. And there will be some recovery. Bondholders will take a haircut — why shouldn’t they? Why should Angela Merkel care if German banks own Greek bonds? Greece has been in default in its recent 200-year history almost half the time. So has most of Latin America come to think of it. What about Russia?
Enough - enough of having the entire world paying for the stupidity, mistakes, and greed of the banking elite. Enough of taxpayers footing every bill. Enough of US taxpayers being responsible for Greek, Portugues, Spanish, Italian, Latvian, Ukrainian "rescues" just so those banks who are loaded to the gills with their sovereign debt can receive another year of record profits. Enough of the US-backed IMF hiking their rescue facilities first to $500 billion, and next to trillions... quadrillions. Enough of destroying the purchasing power of the dollar and forcing people to increasingly consider a barter economy (based on gold or otherwise) as the only survivable option of the reckless monetary and fiscal policies of greedy and corrupt politicians. Enough.
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Let it burn.
Tyler/Dan, David & Dylan are getting oh so close. Yet they still periodically revert back to type by characterizing these actions as "stupidity", or worse, "mistakes".
Look guys, I gonna spell it out for you one more time. This entire farce was designed, launched and executed as a take-down from the very start. Consider some of the points made by the more astute commenters.
Travis continually observes that the global economy had entered a mature phase where new products/services lacked any real "economicalness". If you understood this important fact generations ago, you would clearly see that debt gaming (eg leverage, derivatives, etc.) would be the only alternative to earning above average returns.
However, once the decision to engage the credit-leverage ponzi was made, we have to deal with the facts that Mako (and to a more naive extent, Denninger) continuously raises. That is, you cannot beat the exponential nature of compounding principle+interest. So you know for an absolute fucking fact that the system is going to eventually reach a terminal stage.
Thus, it is trivial to desconstruct what happened in a few easy steps:
If ZH is to maintain any relevance, it needs to consider fully embracing what is actually occurring. This was a pre-meditated take-down from the start. It is still being executed.
+1 Trillion
Well said, and until this is embraced, we treat symptoms....and not the cause.
If that is the case who engineered it, and how?
Who engineered & profited from it? Why, anyone who understands basic math. I've gotten flack here because I don't necessarily subscribe to any coordinated attempts at a take-down.
Rather, I'm an adherent to the "surfer's paradox". That is, SoCal surfers know that if a large winter storm forms in the S Pacific by New Zealand, waves will arrive on our shores during peak summer months within 7-10 days. That's why prime spots like Malibu & Trestles are absolute zoos - no one had to coordinate anything - any surfer with even the slightest clue knows what is going to occur.
Likewise, we don't need some master conspiracy - anyone who knows anything knows for fucking certain what's going down. My only complaint is that there appears to be some collusion in keeping these essential facts from morts. (But then again, surfers definitely don't want anyone else learning how to surf.)
How else can we have smart engineers like Denninger finally wake up and smell the coffee? Why do aspring doctors absolutely kill themselves with over-study & work, without ever being exposed to such mundane basic principles as compounding interest? (Other than as a device to convince them to buy a house and ride the wave.) IOW, why isn't this shit taught from 5th grade on?
So now regular people are catching on, just like they did in the 1930s. Thus the revulsion towards bankers - they aren't smarter, they're just crooks.
+1, geese don't need to "conspire" to fly south. They just do. Central banks don't need to "conspire" to build-and-profit from financial tidal forces -- they all agree on the desired outcome. (Of course, central banks *also* do specifically conspire, and other players benefit, both the "conspiring" and "non-conspiring" types).
It's the wind and the tides. You want a world without the wind and the tides? Can't happen. Unfortunately, most are born into servitude for the benefit of the few.
<sigh>, for some reason humans seem to like having a ruling class. And, I'm a *huge* capitalist as I look upon the current ebb-and-flow with despair.
"Central banks don't need to "conspire" to build-and-profit from financial tidal forces -- they all agree on the desired outcome."
mikla,
I understand your point but "they all agree on the desired outcome" is in fact a conspiracy. A conspiracy can be public or private, involve two or 20,000. This is how central bankers can meet in private and be viewed in the public's conditioned mindset (the central bankers need to set policy and control the economy for our welfare) to not be a conspiracy when in fact it is.
I take your point, and I think we agree. Perhaps my point is too subtle:
Substitue for "central bankers" the terms "other parties" (like individuals, large financial institutions, market makers, cartel aggregates, very wealthy individuals). Some of them are in group (1), and some are in group (2). I assert some of them are in both groups (1) and (2), and IMHO central bankers are the best example: They debase without a conspiracy (because that's what they do), but they *also* conspire to more efficiently debase.
We are in agreement on the principal points. That wolves hunt in packs doesn't mean they conspire. When wolves sit down to determine coordinated strategy in order to hunt in packs, it is a conspiracy but only because they wish to be more efficient when hunting in packs.
Central bankers are by nature wolves so the measure of "conspiracy" doesn't fully translate.
Still, part of me can't help but look to the history of banking in the U.S. and globe to see that there is always collusion of some sort, and conspiracy has been part of it.
I think Murray Rothbard did a great job exposing these issues in his works, free for download over at mises.org:
Then there is his fantastic work on how those with consolidated power in the State / Government operate, in his also free .pdf work "Anatomy of the State"
Of course, all are available in print if you wish to buy from mises.org or amazon, or wherever.
I also think the first 1/3 of Griffin's "The Creature from Jekyll Island" tells quite the story of how the system was slid into existence back during the last turn of the century.
IMO, these are all essential works worth a review. Griffens goes a little too conspiracy in the final 2/3, but hits the nail on the head regarding Fabian Socialism, Keynes, et. al. I read these all years ago and kept their ideas mentally shelved (while investing on some of Rothbard's principal views on the economy and the Austrian Business Cycle and the Great Depression's real causes, which is why I started accumulating gold back in 2002 at $318, and have been doing so every chance I get despite all the warnings that we're in a gold bubble and that there's nothing to worry about.
Read 'em. Keep 'em in mind. Learn.
B9K9
Yep. They are blaming what they see last as the fatal mistake, the fatal mistakes were made at the beginning. Matter of fact generation after generation keep making the same exact choice expecting a different outcome. The Math is always the same, humans can't supply and demand exponential growth long term, and when you can't it collapses into a death spiral.
The current system is just like the previous system, matter of fact, the old system never completely collapsed.
Housing or real estate blowoff top is usually the top of the credit creation. Why? because the most of amount of credit is generated that way and requires the owner to continue to work for 30 years.
I have no idea why everyone is mad now, you have the same system in place the next time... housing will top.... system will crash... people will die. If the system is done correct and efficiently, 60-80 years tops then collapse.
I love it when these guys out here scream, "but the debt/credit will never be paid off"... no kidding exactly what do you think it's going to be paid off with? I don't know whether to laugh or cry. It's a one way road and eventually the road hits a dead end after about 60-80 years.
Current US debt/credit $52.7T worldwide like $200T... exactly what would you pay that off with? Well, you have to create it... then you are up to $105.4T and $400T. There is no paying off.
I just realized what you meant by tanks rolling over people, even though they have GOLD!!! and SILVER!!! in their pockets.
You have to be somewhere that they tanks don't show up. And that's pretty tricky. I bet 99% of the traders that come to this site don't have enough food in their cupboards to last more than a few days. They'll get rolled.
You can't expect ZH to base its work on presuppositions, without basis in fact.
Like the 'macfly' asked, "who's responsible?". Come back with the names, dates, places. When you can bring a Madoff ponzi style expose, then let us know, other than that you are just farting into the wind.
If ZH just started posting conspiratorial stories, like it was the Bilderbergers that done it, then we might as well browse Prison Planet or InfoWars. Lots of conspiracy, not much to back it up.
See my response to macfly. My recommendation to Dan/Tyler et al isn't to embrace conspiracy theories - there's no need.
Rather, I think everyone would be better served if the ZH community viewed the world as if sitting at Goldman's prop desk in 2007 (as we observed during witness testimony on Tuesday).
The economics & math are simple: you can't run perpetual growth. Hence, you need to deploy leverage; but leverage has a terminal point, at which the system collapses.
As the poster below notes, I would enjoy a section that was devoted to trading strategies based on these fundamental factors.
Completely agree! There's no point in wasting time worrying about bailouts and other idiotic policy. No politician has the guts to be the bearer of the bad news and allow the default process to start so the system will be pushed along until default can't be avoided. At which time, monetization will commence. Given the large amount of outstanding debt that will eventually default, the monetization process can go on for quite some time. The Fed just needs a little more of a crises to provide the political cover to feed dollars into the system. At a trillion or two a year, how long will it take to pay down about $20 trillion of debt?
Fine. Would it make any sense to have a dedicated section here that discusses how to fight within/against the system by creating trading profits. I'm past bitching about what is going on and acknowledge that I ain't smart enough on my own to succeed against TPTB.
Duh! If I get it they get it. So relax
@B9K9
Your post is fruit for thought. Thank you. I am struggling with the cause and effect though.
I completely agree with the issue of compound interest leading to a broken system, because perpetual growth is impossible in a world of finite resources. But before that you say:
Travis continually observes that the global economy had entered a mature phase where new products/services lacked any real "economicalness". If you understood this important fact generations ago, you would clearly see that debt gaming (eg leverage, derivatives, etc.) would be the only alternative to earning above average returns.
I had seen the mature phase of the economy and growth limitations as consequenses of debt saturation in combination with compound interest and resource exhaustion, not as the preceeding argument for promoting debtfuelled consumption.
If the mature phase for product/services came about before the campaign to encourage private borrowing of size, and in fact was the rationale behind this policy, what was the reason for this loss of "economicalness"?.
Was it lack of new truly groundbreaking innovation, the absence of a periodic major and destructive war, or the fact that people can only wear one pair of shoes at the same time, only drive in one car at the same time and only can eat so many potatoes? Please elaborate.
The last 150 years of technical innovation have been nothing more than leveraging fossil fuels. Take out the fuels, and we have nothing.
Computers are just an update to the telegraph. Cars & airplanes merely optimizations of steam locomotives. Where/what are the next paradigm shifts? How do we communicate faster, or transport ourselves more efficiently?
I'm actually a super-optimist. I think humanity is gonna be around for a long time. Only it's going to look a lot different. First of all, why are we 6' tall? Why not 3'? That would cut our caloric requirements in half. All it takes is a little genetic engineering.
Why not transport brainwaves via tele-communications? After all, our senses are simply a function of electrical-chemical baths sloshing around in our heads. We could experience the reality of surfing in Tahiti without actually even being there. Think about the tremendous energy savings that would accrue.
I have no doubts about the limits of mankinds' ingenuity; it's just that our current phase is based solely on fossil fuels. That's why the current era of growth has ended and gamesmanship was shifted to finance.
Without diminishing the staggering advances made during the last 150 years, I agree that they represent evolution that have been confined within the finite boundaries of fossil fuels.
The closure of the current paradigm is very close at hand, but as a pendulum swings back and forth, I think that we will have a period of time, where we backtrack and consolidate as the resource crisis excalate and becomes more tangible. We will reverse some of the Globalization in the physical world, and consolidate on a regional level, when it comes to goods, services and workforce. On the intellectual level I think that the Globalization will continue to thrive with the exchange of ideas and knowledge through the electronic world.
We will rekindle ourselves with "old virtues" and understand that the last 150 years of progress not only has made us stronger, it has also made us weaker. We received so much help from technological advance, that many lost the bond with nature and each other. Many people today have no clue how fresh meat and vegetables is supposed to taste, or how to take care of their immediate survival, if they were suddenly forced to. Many people have also lost the sence of belonging to a community with a valued purpose.
This rekindling will be the first line of defence, and those who will be able to work together with others to survive physically, mentally and economically during this transition, will also become the raw material for the high-tech innovation required to initiate transition into the new paradigm(s).
Innovation is mostly driven by necessesity and concrete problems. The first problem that must be solved is energy and food. I am not worried about, if human beings will be able to produce solutions. I am just as optimistic about that as you.
I am worried about which values that will guide the innovation. Will it be values of shorter term conquest, arrogance and power consolidation, or will it be values of modesty, mutual curiosity and long term sustainability.
Will it be corporatists or will it be entrepreneurs? I hope that the global systemic clean up tidal wave, that we will witness shortly, will be thourough enough to leave the entrepreneurs and regular professional people a level playing field to do their magic once the waters calm down again.
+100
Where is my 'Recommend 1 buzillion' button?
+1. You could also join the swarm. Only movement I know of.
http://www.swarmusa.com/vb4/
where can I vote for this ban?
I completely agree for once with Rosenberg. But it ain't gonna happen. Plan will be finalized over the weekend sending the futures even higher for the inevitable "surprise" pop in the markets on Monday.
Rosie et al. should be focusing their protests on the Fed keeping rates so low here that the US may face bigger problems down the road. Wasting your breath on Greece is silly.
The "plan" may be finalized over the weekend but it must still be accepted.
I expect the German population to rise up and reject it.
I also expect the Greek population to rise up and reject it. Greece has a fat public sector which is over-paid and over-entitled. They do not understand why they should give up their generous benefits nor do they understand why the rest of the world should stop supporting them. Greece created this problem by refusing to make needed structural adjustments. Why should they start making such adjustments now?
If I were Greece, I would accept the terms, take the money, and then not implement the terms. Matter of fact, I would dish out more so the people don't burn the place down.
Greece has the upper hand. Portugal will have the upper hand soon, and then Spain, and so on.
It's game over.
Very true. In a system where money is being redistributed by force, any given entity must do whatever it takes to make sure that they are getting their "cut".
This has created a zero sum game, and it will end badly for most or all participants.
Luckily, it's easy to get out of the system. All you have to do is produce something and not use credit to do so. You would be surprised at how fast markets can switch from being credit dependent to credit independent. So long as the government doesn't get in the way, it can be done in 6-12 months. But so long as the government remains in the way, they can block the transition until they collapse due to utter lack of production (ie they can't steal anything else).
That gets you out of the private credit system. However, when you pay taxes you are still participating in the sovereign credit system. Sorry.
I happen to agree with you. We have reached the point of entropy, from this point onward the vibrations will just get bigger and more frequent until the system is torn asunder.
+10 Go long
Did I just hear you recommend to extend and pretend? Greece's only hope for survival is to take their lumps, not get bailed out. Same for us.
It would actually be easier if they did riot and burn their country down, because then the country would more easily be out from underneath the false promises and unrealistic bones that have been thrown to labor for decades. Retiring at 50? Or even 55? With full pay, or full pay + 10% + inflation adjustment?
It's not game over until they finish themselves off, and can then start from a more realistic and egalitarian basis for their economy.
The only check anyone should write them is a reality check.
hahaha dear sushi i happen to live here in germany "I expect the German population to rise up and reject it." I´m still laughing about that. Listen, the chance the sun is going to explode on the weekend is way higher than the chance that the german population is rising up .... i hate to say that but my fellow germans are the most brainwashed sheeple breed there is. The press here constantly rants about the greek and how evil the rating agencies are and how it´s everbody elses fault and that there is of course no other alternative (like always) but to bail them all out again, no matter the costs. I hope you are right though.
Guten Tag alt
I was just going by what I read here --->
http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2010/apr/29/eu-debt-crisis-german-pap...
Can you recommend any english language German web publication?
try der spiegel
http://www.spiegel.de/international/
mhh guardian is british, but okay, mhh german newsoutlets in english http://www.dw-world.de/ is pretty okay Handelsblatt of course but not everything is translated here and by the time it is it´s mostly old news but the FT has a german section that is also translated as far as i know
Before responding to the virtually ubiquitous ZH poster "HarryWanger", please be aware of just whom and what you are dealing with in this person:
http://www.minyanville.com/businessmarkets/articles/AAPL-apple-gm-psycho...
His real name is James Kostohryz, and he is here posing as a troll in dishonesty and in disregard for the fundamental purposes of this forum. He is NOT posting here in good faith, but is purposely antagonizing those with independent, anti-establishment views and opinions for his own selfish and cynical purposes, as part of a study on "the psychology of permabears".
He believes that anyone who opposes the current widespread fraud, corruption and rampant lies within our societies and governments are "utopian" and unrealistic, pollyannish dreamers.
And for those ZeroHedgers who are advocates of sound money backed by gold, this bankster shill is already out there with one of the most disingenuous, dishonest pieces of pro-establishment propaganda on the topic, expounding on how such financial integrity is "impossible", and merely "the rants of an ideological fringe":
http://finance.yahoo.com/news/The-Gold-Standard-Solid-as-minyanville-285...
Please do NOT respond to this reprehensible troll, here or anywhere else on ZeroHedge. He is NOT here in good faith, and should be shunned!
@akak
Thank you for outing this troll. I know somewhat of his history and he is vermin.
You are very welcome.
It is an unpleasant and loathesome task, but I have too much respect for TD and this website not to have done otherwise.
I find the cynical intrusion here of Mr. Kostohryz, akak "HarryWanger", reprehensible and outrageous, and I consider him utterly repugnant and despicable --- and NOT just for his actions in this forum. Reading through his article linked above, and others, make me realize that he is completely amoral and most likely a narcissist and a sociopath, if not outright evil.
Cursive
Why is he here in bad faith. He clearly is betting his position. Eventually there will be no long or short position to trade but until then, party on Garth.
If he were not trading his thoughts here that would be bad faith.
Life is a series of cycles and cycles within cycles. Nothing wrong with his short term calls, matter of fact he is been fairly accurate.
@Mako
First of all, why don't you give us the roadmap for how your ultra-cynical view will play out so the rest of us pawns will know how to survive. Second of all, HW is a troll. Trolls do not, by definition, operate in good faith. They only stir up shit. Maybe that's why you like him so much. I know this guy from his days on Ritholtz. He is a shit stirrer. Again, maybe you like that kind of action. You think life is a bunch of cycles? Try convincing HW of that.
Yes, not getting why so many are letting him yank their chains....
Geegantay pussies. Stirring up shit is Tyler and his Tumor's modus...Stop telling me who to ignore. Fuck nut. Harry for prez. Like it might matter.
I'm gonna have to defend Harry on this one. First off, his posts are generally reasonable and there is no rule that says you must be a bear to post on ZH. Needless to say, he has also been right (on the stock market at least) for the past 14 months in a row.
Secondly, if that really is Harry's piece on Minyanville, I'd say he describes the general characteristics of the perma-bears to a tee, pretty much.
I still think he is simply a momo investor along with everyone else riding this bubble up, but I would not call him a troll at all. Just my 2 cents.
Enjoy your stay in the Skinner Box.
Hit feeder bar...receive food...good feeling.
Hit feeder bar...receive food...good feeling.
Hit feeder bar...receive food...good feeling.
Hey, why am I so fat?
It is not my fault!
Hit feeder bar...receive food...good feeling...
LOL! Need to hook that feeder bar to the 110 outlet HH !
So we have yet ANOTHER apologist for wrongdoing?
I am sorry that I lost the link to his comments on Minyanville where he almost gleefully and mockingly describes his "study" of all those "utopian", "Pollyanish" dreamers (i.e., most of us here) who are so "rigid" and "inflexible" and "psychological stunted" as to demand integrity and honesty in our financial and political systems, and lays out his plan to purposefully goad all of those same "dreamers" in online forums for the sole reason of soliciting hostile and defensive comments.
This goes far beyond the normal, empty jollies of the typical online troll, and I fail to see how anyone else cannot find it outrageous and completely unacceptable. He has only been making a mockery of this forum, and all of you, for his own narrow and cyncial ends. If there were ever ANY poster who deserved to be banned for good, it is this amoral piece of filth.
Where is your sense of injustice and, yes, outrage?
I think you are overreacting. Differences of opinion make the world go round. For every polyanna utopian perma-bear, there's a willfully ignorant sheeple perma-bull. I really don't see the reason for the outrage.
I for one enjoy reading the occasional bullish comment on ZH, if only because the reponses are usually entertaining.
Master Bates was often came to insult Goldbugs. At one point he confessed he had a bet with his mates that he could piss us off.
Oh what fools we be. lol
hairy wanker Master bates Nadler. liars all.
LOL, Nadless used to troll the Kitco forum, raging and foaming at the mouth at "you goldbug extremists" and spreading his disingenuous pro-bankster bullcrap fast and thick! It was amusing how EVERYBODY could see through his act, and how NOBODY, ever, stood up in defenseo of him or his ridiculous positions. And to put the cherry on the top of the sundae, he was finally banned --- from his own company's forum! Who says justice does not (at least sometimes) prevail!
Thanks for the words. FWIW, I have no idea why this guy is so crazed about linking me to some professor at Minyanville. I have no connection or have I ever had any connection with Minyanville other than reading a few posts there occasionally.
Anyway, I'll keep to posting info/opinions as I see fit when I have the time.
How pathetic you are --- you are not even a good liar!
The proof is all there for anyone to see, "HarryWanger" --- you posted by that name as the author under your own damned article! What a fucking contemptible sack of shit you are!
And I will continue to post that same damning information under EVERY spurious and purposely antagonistic, flaming post you make in turn. Checkmate,a nd game over asshole!
I don't know, akak. Is that your only proof? Maybe he isn't that Harry Wanger, maybe he just has a hairy cock?
If you look at the purposely pro-establishment, pollyannish, "nothing to see here", over-the-top antagonistic tone of ALL of his posts, in combination with his stated views and opinions in the linked articles, the evidence is undeniable. Plus, he posted comments as the author of the linked article, written by James Kostohryz, under the name of "HarryWanger" in the comments section underneath the very same article. Coincidence? Hardly!
Is this the article you are referring to?
http://www.minyanville.com/businessmarkets/articles/AAPL-apple-gm-psychology-bears-pollyannas/6/4/2009/id/22929?page=full
Yes, that is the one --- or at least I should say, one of them.
I just wish I could find his comments (posted under another article by another author) in which he detailed his plans for his perverted little "study", using antagonistic trolling of online forums, of the "psychologically stunted" and "utopian" dreamers who actually have the nerve to feel outrage at the corruption and lies so prevalent within the political and financial establishments, and who "naively" and "rigidly" demand better.
I see it like this: free speech, but freedom from abuse, too.
That is, I share your thoughts about quieting incessant, psychopathic posting - but HairyWanger is someone we can afford to ignore - especially if the thread mutates into a thread about hijacked threads.
Johnny Bravo is Master Baits (forgot his password, awwww) and if he starts "gold bitchez" up again I'm gonna, eh, fuck it. Just ignore. It's all about hijacking. They either have serious issues or are PAID to distrupt (fucking Feds).
There's no reason to get your hackles in an uproar over this crap.
He used to post over at The Daily Reckoning and personally stalked Bill Bonner. I mean he made it a point to post only snide remarks under BB's articles and no one elses.
His modius operandi would be to come out on days like today and talk about how the economy and the markets were coming back and taunt BB if he even mentioned that we might be heading toward a depression. If the markets tanked for a few days he would hide out until the market was back in the green and then he would be back at, pollyannish like, about how the economy was turning around, but only under BB's posts.
But, so what, it's entertainment. Develop a sense of humor, learn to tolerate the intolerable. After the Federal Reserve and the banksters turn this country into a toilet you'll need as much wits about you as you can muster.
And, as much as you detest this poser, as far as I know, and that ain't much, only Tyler and Marla have the power to decide who and who can not post on this website.
By the way you might want to read the ZH manifesto:
our method: pseudonymous speech...
anonymity is a shield from the tyranny of the majority. it thus exemplifies the purpose behind the bill of rights, and of the first amendment in particular: to protect unpopular individuals from retaliation-- and their ideas from suppression-- at the hand of an intolerant society.
...responsibly used.
the right to remain anonymous may be abused when it shields fraudulent conduct. but political speech by its nature will sometimes have unpalatable consequences, and, in general, our society accords greater weight to the value of free speech than to the dangers of its misuse
If he's polite, I don't see any reason to get too excited. I thought it was all a Naked Gun or Colbert Report-like joke. The icons are hilarious too. The last one he had looked like Donny Osmond or something.
Freedom of speech man. If you take what he says at face value he looks like a tool, but I think most ZH readers had him pegged as either a facetious humourist or a nutcake a while back.
He's certainly right that you can lose lots of money fighting the tape, especially when helicopter airdrops of green paper are so frequent.
I call Bullshit, Wanger. NOBODY who is intelligent enough to find & get themselves on this site can be as stupid or obtuse as you present yourself to be. If you are intelligent enough to find & get yourself here, then the ludicrous statements you make are not just you expressing your opinion. So what's your game? Perhaps you're an attention junkie who makes the most preposterous statements you can think of, hoping to have someone, anyone pay attention to you. I am able to discern this: You ARE NOT the moronic idiot that you proport to be. You are not believable. Well you have got the one and only response from me that you will ever get. From now on, I'll just ignore you. You have nothing to contribute to this forum.
With you.
Challenging Rosie in this forum is like disagreeing with Arianna over at HuffPo. Rosie is a veritable cult figure such that disagreeing with him is not tolerated and can be met with hostility and even anger. I suspect some readers here have completely missed the market move over the past year and to that end take comfort in Rosie's and other bearish musings. One of the more interesting bloggers out there (Prieur du Plessis) had a good piece yesterday that focused on Rosenberg and that perhaps his moment may finally have arrived.
http://www.investmentpostcards.com/2010/04/28/rosenberg-%E2%80%93-12-thi...
Second the motion.
You make a bad investment - you loose money. I think this used to be called capitalism. We have to end socialism for the wealthy and the kick to the gutter for everyone else.
Not only should we ban the bailout, but all the regulators associated with oversight failures need to be removed. All of them. Regan did it with air traffic controllers. There needs to be a complete house cleaning.
Agreed. You screw up, you pay for it. If I go into business today doing whatever, and fail spectacularly I shouldn't expect unlimited cash in order to prop me up (though these days I may receive the cash...)
The problem is is these companies spent so much money bankrolling politicians and lobbying that they've convinced the system that their wellbeing is directly tied to that of America as a whole. If we let GS, ML fail 2 years ago would this country really be any worse off? Would employment look better? Would we be taking on credit as if it'll never come due? Yeah BAC and JPM failing would have been scary since they DO take deposits, but thats why FDIC is there to step in and save what matters, the actual part of the bank that does banking transactions for the rest of us.
My greatest concern is that when shit hits the fan, nothing will be learned and those in power will simply rebuild a biased system to start all over again and make sure it benefits themselves. Entropy is the way the universe works, embrace the destruction. We are only prolonging the inevitable.
They're all filthy Orcs ....... I shall use my ax and send their carcasses back to Mordor
First post?
Testing 1 2 3.
I 100000% agree. The governments and central bankers are out of control. Stop bailouts! I heard this morning Obama phoned Merkel to pressure Germany to bail out Greece. Can someone please put a muzzle on him.
Well, you pointed out that the Emperor had no clothes. Since you're conveniently available, he's going to steal your clothes. :-)
I agree.. where do I sign up..
I am beyond sick of this bullshit
+1. In spades.
+1000
I joined the Swarm. Check it out.
http://www.swarmusa.com/vb4/
STOP THE INSANITY! LOL- like it would do any good anyway at this point.
Too right this should stop, the banksters get free money, then loan it out at loan shark rates.
They are reaping huge rewards yet again and never got punished. Where is the punishment for bad behaviour?
I am totally sick of this. I make mistakes, I get punished hard. I make tiny errors I get punished hard.
They get given free money for making massive mistakes
+1
at last s me words of sense
kick them out the euro
who cares if some banksters take a haircut , it wasn't their money to loose in the first place seeing as the money was created out of thin air in the first place
if there is a bailout expect big time riots
germans and french are not pussies like americans
the IMF forgets this and so does harry wankie
The French people are extremely good at protesting and I really hope they go ahead and protest to the best of their ability.
I am fed up with the problems in the UK and no doubt UK money will be part of it
What would you have the French protest? This is a proposed bailout of creditors, not the debtor. French banks hold alot of Greasy paper.
Why should those that made bad decisions be bailed out?
They should get what they deserve nothing more
Thanks akak, for the background on HW.
Fight this now or accept that we will be fighting in the streets soon (as the Greeks are doing today).
Our govt must develop some sense (and a backbone) and tells us the truth (and stop being the servant of the bankers).
Wish we could make Rosie president, with Mish VP and Denninger Atty General.
The UK politicians lied about Iraq, they engaged in an illegal war despite lots of protests by the public against it.
This is no longer a democracy. There is a vote soon in the UK but because of the way the way the voting is made, Labour can win the majority of the seats even if it comes third with about 23% of the votes, by comparison the Lib Dems have to get about 45% of the votes to come 1st
Fight this now ..
Dont trade the market, take money out of banks, convert to silver and gold and prepare homestead for lack of services and lack of supply.
Also educate your fellow man, beginning with your neighborhood. Grow a garden.
If you really got the balls....quit paying anything, taxes or credit and for sure , dont borrow.
Thats me , so far. Good luck to us all.
yeah, right.... this will undermine the entire Fed "extend and pretend, `let's help banks earn their way out`" Ponzi scheme!
Extend & Pretend
http://home.comcast.net/~lcmgroupe/2010/Article-Extend_Pretend-Uncle_Sam...
If only it were as simple as "calling for a ban".
Whatever happened to Democracy and "we the people, for the peope". IMO, the onle way a stop can be put to this reckless journey towards an eventual collapse if "we the people" rise and sieze the moment. Unfortunately, we are too engrossed in our own lives, our own problems and for some who are fortunate indifferent to the plight of others that we care a damn. WHatever happened to that ilk of men and women who founded this country, stood up for the cause and led by example. They must be having "nightmare" seein all of this unfold.
A lesson will be learnt by all, in time. I only hope that we can survive to make amends the next time.
Go ahead, rise up. Then we'll see the tanks parked outside your door and the blood of a few 100 dead in your street. We live in a police state, we the dumbf#(($ of the USA gave all of our power to the almighty govt. Try and stop them now. That sad truth is that no one wants to end up in jail, or worse, dead.
please wake me up from the Keynesian hell we are now living in
since 2008 its like I fell down a wormhole into a parrallel universe where common sense is not allowed as well as the rule of law. Meanwhile the sheeple sleep on and I am one of the few ones awake to see this nighmare. Please let in end
"In a separate article, Kathimerini reports that IMF/EU/ECB sought to cut the 13th and 14th salary but labour minister Andreas Loverdos said that this is not acceptable to the Greek government"
Fourteen months pay for twelve months work. Why would anyone want to stop that.
http://www.eurointelligence.com/article.581+M53ce1416b72.0.html
I believe it is only 11 months of work.
Not only will the "punch bowl" not be taken away, it's set on "Auto-Refill"...
Screw the punchbowl, they're filling the pool with straight vodka from a tanker!
"Last one in's a rotten egg!"
"When does someone finally say - enough is enough!"
Well.... I say it on a near daily basis, and the American People said it before TARP was passed. This doesn't count though, I take it.
I guess what you are asking is when do TPTB say enough is enough bailouts are no longer in our interest? Good luck waiting for that answer.
Let's skip to the part where revolution is the only solution, that's your enough is enough; in truth.
I believe the folks (voters) in Iceland gave the finger to paying Europe. That didn't get too far as I recall the gov't discounting the vote and trying to say that the vote would be ignored. Have not heard much on that front since then. Lotsa Icelanders leaving the place last time I checked on that.
QQQ ball becasue they will think the money is coming from then
the banks cannot say hehe taxpayers
the loan comes out of thin air otherwise their scam is up
the french will think their money is being used to bailout greece which it will be when greece defaults on the bailout
These folks are not stupid by any stretch of the imagination, they know exactly what to do and how to do it and if they run the well dry, they just overnight-express Perrier from France until the well refills. The question is, do we have the stones to crash their gated communities? "The wicked are always surprised to find that the good can be clever." Luc de Clapiers de Vauvenargues
WE have screamed that "enough is enough", "basta est basta"!!. A bazillion pages have been blogged to kingdom come proclaiming our protest.
But we might was well shit in our hat because the bailers have no skin in the game. They, in fact get raises and bonuses for fucking up the entire world economy. They exist in a different kingdom than those they rule.
I would agree with Rosie, it's all getting quite ridiculous and insulting to boot. As I've said before there's 1) no end to this idiotic game and 2) it only really moves the bad debt from one entity to another. We should have just dispensed with all this and let it fail at the very beginning, at least then we would be done with the picking up of the pieces and our currency wouldn't be on the hit list.
Who is this man? Does he not understand? We throw money at the problem and the stock market goes up. We don't and the stock market goes down. Ramifications? Consequences? We are finite beings who could die tomorrow. The party is today!!!
"Why should Angela Merkel care if German banks own Greek bonds?"
Because the German banks that own Greek bonds are nationalized public banks (Landesbanken) or have been nationalized recently with the money of the German taxpayers. The most Greek bonds within the German financial system are held by the bank that has already become the ultimate nightmare for German taxpayers: Hypo Real Estate, a now completely nationalized, hopelessly bankrupt bank with a balance sheet almost the size of Lehman Brothers. It alone holds Greek bonds of about $ 12 billion.
In case of a Greek bond default or a considerable haircut - which seems to be inevitable in the future - the German taxpayers will then have paid twice for the same Greek sh..t.
There are no such thing as taxpayer's money. And of course they are not yours. Your money is what is in your pocket. The money is the bank are bank's money. The money you'd paid to IRS are government's money.
If IMF lends some money to some government it lends its own money, which they had raised somehow from other governments.
There is no you there and never will.
The way I like to spin it is, if we had let the economy suffer catastrophe in '08, let financial armageddon happen, exactly what would we fear today? Of all the bad things that could have transpired and the harm suffered, one thing you can't suggest is that we would be haunted by an even bigger boggy man.
But politicians need fear, they depend on it.
What they feared was the people finding out that money they had in the bank wasn't ... and still isn't... there. It is all bet on the stock market and used as margin. They had to pump the market back up but they think they can repeat the scam yet again so they haven't bothered to stop their greedy ways and change their robbing of peoples savings
Yep. And that's predominantly why I don't "invest" in stocks; I find it implausible that my "ownership" claim to any particular group of individuals and hard capital will withstand the inevitable collapse. China provided a glimpse of a world devoid of IP and I don't see the validity of developed sovereignty being able to put the genie back in the bottle. Those who can actually produce something will do fine.
The gov't f'ing around with money, dilutes the purchasing power of my excess capital of which I had put in an amount of sweat and have done with less to accrue that surplus - two things are happening here, they are stealing my labor and thumbing their nose at my frugality, fortunately I have piled into other assets other that fiat-based junk since 2000, I sleep pretty good... F them...
fix it again
thats my situation as well
I was a saver low debt and close to a partial retiremnet now they have fucked me but the debtors get help
Its a disgrace
Not a disgrace, it's criminal ...
Yes Yes my dear ZH but you/yours can't always win
By the way be carefull as markets ready to tumble
Prescription for Success:
Take one DAILY: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Cz4vcQKWfA
AND Act Accordingly.
I tried it and it WORKS!!!
fix it again
sorry yes its criminal
biggest crimes ever in history of the world
Great article, Great posts.
The writing has been on the wall for a long, long time. Force people into speculation by consistently devaluing the dollar, and thus hit savers and people with a more frugal mentality. Force them into the market, which of course means someone else is selling usually at a profit to them. It's a very ingenious scam.
It was rigged, but hey, if you knew, anyone could get 'in' on it. So it was equal opportunity. Or at least everyone had an equal opportunity to 'try' while of course being against the squid who could blow you out of the water at any time. Many did follow, and then the sheep followed them, without knowing why everything was 'working'. If they don't know why it's working, they won't know WHEN it isn't. Perfect opportunity to unload after the great pump.
We used to create wealth by creating real tangible things, with real benefits to real people. Stuff you could hold in your hand. There was even a time where if you buried 1000 dollars, and dug it up decades later, its value was the same. Yet there was still opportunities for investment all around. In a sense it was an extension of political power. You could vote with your money where you wanted progress, and you didn't NEED to do it. Thus it REALLY meant something.
We don't want a bunch of people investing simply to get ahead of inflation. We want people investing because they believe in the company, product, or service and that it serves a purpose. Because they believe in the mission statement, or the CEO's or upper management's vision of what they want to help create. Because they believe that not only will they make money, but they'll benefit society.
This is the whole corporate responsibility and ethics that became so prevalent in colleges after the Enron debacle. We used to know it, and do it instinctively. Sadly by the time I was in college, it had to be TAUGHT to us. We used to have such responsibility and ethics inherent in us. We should focus on attaining that again. Then maybe instead of having a relatively useless business ethics class, we can have another business math class, or another quality control. More time to study six sigma, or have the time to learn the correct way to judge statistical modelling, it's limitations, and how nothing it outputs, is a real ANYTHING. It can tell you something, but not all the time. Instead no one gets such instruction and we have literally an entire economy which uses bunk models to tells us what we want to hear, and NOTHING we NEED to KNOW. Case in point AIG models saying they'd never have to pay out big sums, or the modelling that said there housing would always go up. (also cap n trade, global warming, and obamacare)
Now we're reaching endgame, but since this has been years, decades, even a century in the making, endgame may still be months or years or away. Or it could be days/weeks. The music will stop, and no one will have a chair. More bailouts will just weaken the foundation everyone else is on, and cause more state, county, federal, soverign countries, small business, corporations bottom lines to bleed even more.
The more that is bailed out, the more entities within that pervue go under. The more the debt game pushes things up, the more and more we'll be asked to cut of 'services' to compensate. Eventually you have 0 social spending, and it still 'isn't enough' for the bankers. It's a sliding scale. Whatever we give up in cuts, is levered against, used, exhausted, and we repeat back to square 1 needing another cut. It's so sad. Meanwhile we can all blame each other for fiscal irresponsibility. When in reality, services are needed, but the people that need them and pay for them aren't getting raises, but because of the overall debt levels and bailouts, the costs to provide them is only going up.
So who do we need to cut? Services? Or the bailouts? The system is broken. Cutting services will do nothing to 'solve' the problem. I don't think 2 days worth of extra rope justifies cutting say social security by 15 percent. Probably longer than 2 days, but you should get the picture.
End the bailouts. Let real price discovery happen. Let people who loaned money face the risk of default. If they are too levered, they screwed up. If they go down, IT IS their fault. Just because we wouldn't allow the rigging as much as they wanted doesn't mean the squid (etc) aren't culpable or responsible for poorly managing it's capital.
Hope they saved some of that bonus money.
As it turns out, the people that contribute the greatest leaps for mankind often don't have the wealth to realize their dreams on their own. They must engage other people with wealth, who on their own don't possess the knowledge and ability to make great leaps for mankind. It is this "working together" that made things like electricity possible.
I said earlier that the most important individual decision is between hoarding and deploying one's wealth. Modern socialist thinkers will all tell you that hoarding is always bad for the economy. That the key to a thriving economy is the free (read: forced) deployment of all wealth back into the economy immediately once it is saved. But the problem is that removing the decision process from the savers changes the behavior of both the savers (lenders) and the debtors.
Debt becomes cheap and easy to get, therefore debtors no longer need great ideas like "electricity" to get a loan. And for the savers, the choice becomes as simple as a multiple choice test for a government job. The lowest common denominator rules the collective as those with a 60 IQ face the same choices as those with a 140: low yield (supposedly safe) or high yield (more risky). What is missing is the option to hoard, without losing purchasing power, which forces lenders to look at debtor's "proposals" more closely.
http://fofoa.blogspot.com/2010/04/life-in-ant-farm.html
jmc8888
Countries hv past/future and donnot default especially tht country me dear bcs of some corrupted politicians and wall str hyenas, and don't give us tht crap abt ethics as all tht multi hyenas looted tht country past 20yrs.
ask GS how much they got all past yrs acting as "advisors" or else. over table offcly 5% comms on every deal amounting at least 50b.
ask german co's for whc still pending legal claims against them for corruption/others, while doing biz in greece .. siemens,ferrostahl, daimler, hochtief, thyssen Korp , german teleph.co, german railway co .
all them fllwd differnt colleges ?
Jesus H Christ! Work sucks! Here it is 9:40PM EST and I'm just getting on this thread. How the hell do you find the time during the day all week to comment on here? If you're all just independently wealthy and can afford to just f%$k off all day on here then I don't know whether to say bless you or fuck you, but I do enjoy your humor and wit. See ya tomorrow.