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Zero Hedge Endorses Senator Bernie Sanders' Petition To Tim Geithner
Petition from Vermont Senator Bernie Sander To Time Geithner
Too Big to Fail is Too Big to Exist
Financial institutions that are “too big to fail” played a major role in undermining the American economy and driving our country into a severe recession.
Financial institutions that are “too big to fail” put taxpayers on the hook for a $700 billion bailout and more than $2 trillion from the Federal Reserve in virtually zero interest loans.
Huge financial institutions have become so big that the four largest banks in America (JP Morgan Chase, Bank of America, Wells Fargo, and Citigroup) now issue one out of every two mortgages; two out of three credit cards; and hold $4 out of every $10 in bank deposits in the country.
Just five banks in America (JP Morgan Chase, Bank of America, Citigroup, Goldman Sachs, and Morgan Stanley) own a staggering 95% of the $290 trillion in derivatives held at commercial banks. Derivatives are risky side bets made by Wall Street gamblers that led to the $182 billion bailout of AIG, the $29 billion bailout that allowed JP Morgan Chase to acquire Bear Stearns, and the collapse of Lehman Brothers.
The concentration of ownership in the financial services industry has resulted in higher bank fees and interest rates that consumers are forced to pay for credit cards, mortgages and other financial products.
No single financial institution should be so large that its failure would cause catastrophic risk to millions of American jobs or to our nation’s economic well-being.
No single financial institution should have holdings so extensive that its failure could send the world economy into crisis.
We believe it is time to break up the banks and insurance companies which are too big to fail.
We believe that passage of The Too Big to Fail, Too Big to Exist Act is essential for a strong American economy and a secure future for ourselves, our children, and our grandchildren.
We urge the immediate enactment of the Too Big to Fail, Too Big to Exist Act, which directs the treasury secretary to compile a list of those financial institutions that are too big to fail in the next 90 days, and to break up these banks and insurance companies a year after the legislation is signed into law.
We urge readers to support the Too Big To Fail Petition: maybe one of these days kalamari will finally be served.
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TOO BIG TO JAIL. Get with the new hipe.... I invented the internet rebuttal and the aftermath... Sign that!!!
Poco
If anyone is a member of Facebook or other social networks, perhaps you could post the petition and similar wording so friends and associates can sign it:
Too Big to Fail = Too Big to Exist! Senator Bernie Sanders (VT) has a petition for Treasury Secretary Geithner asking that the "TBTF" banks that caused the near destruction of the world's financial system in September 2008 be "downsized" and broken apart so they cannot threaten the world financial system with systemic meltdown again, or blackmail US taxpayers with threats of such an event in order to extort more free taxpayer money from us. The concentration of financial and POLITICAL power in their hands is terrifying, and they are already pulling the same stunts that we spent TRILLIONS bailing them out for just one year ago! I am a big supporter of this petition, and I ask that you consider taking a moment to sign it and let our government know how you feel about the menace these banks hold for us, our children, our grandchildren. Thank you,
We need to petition to rid Geithner himself. Get that slimy dude out of office first, then dismantle the remaining taxpayer leeches.
It will never happen the too big to fails will not be broken up nor will they be jailed.
In 2009 ( just the first ten months of this year only) the scum bags that received TARP and who continue to borrow money for free have spent tens of millions on lobbying - even AIG and General Motors have spent millions.
Take a look at this partial list of 2009 lobbying expenses by Tarp Recipients and other beneficiaries of the Fed and Treasury:
Goldman Sachs 2009 lobbying expnese $2.1 million link
Bank of America 2009 $2.4m link
Citigroup 2009 $4.2m link
JP Morgan 2009 $4.3m link
Wells 2009 $2.0m link
Morgan Stanley 2009 $3.0M link
General Electric 2009 $19.6m link
American Express 2009 $2.1m link
AIG 2009 $2.3m link
Blackstone 2009 $1.3m link
GMAC 2009 $1.0m link
Cerberus / Chrysler 2009 $7.9m link
General Motors 2009 $7.1m link
In 2008 the numbers are much much larger for most of the "players" including Fannie and Freddie at $3.8m and $5.8m repsectively. Many of the above companies spent well in excess of $10 million per year (prior to 2009) on lobbying their friends and your representatives in Washington. Add in poliltical contributions and I think it is clear how far this petition or criminal proceedings will go.
"It will never happen....."
The paths of history are cluttered with roadkill of those who uttered these same words.......
Bring on the lemon and tartar!! FRIED GOLDEN RINGS of juicy TAXPAYER-Fed SQUID!!!!
Yes, bring it on! The free tarter sauce handouts will also prevent the swine flu.
Your tarter sauce has enough Propofol in it to keep the mass coma going forever.
Got a feeling this is got the same fate as the "Audit the Fed" bill
Yea..you can call me a pessimist...I won't mind.
People who practice the art of (creating and) clinging to false hopes will often call someone who clearly sees and measures the present situation a pessimist.
One of the reasons our leaders lie to us is to create false hopes. Things are getting better, recovery is just around the corner, deficits don't matter, we can deal with inflation if and when it comes, we will strengthen regulation, etc. We all know the lies......er......false hopes I'm talking about.
False hopes bind us to unlivable situations. Like a deer frozen in the headlights of the oncoming car (endless) false hopes freeze us into inaction. Once frozen, we must wait until the hoped for results are realized. After all, you wouldn't want to leave just before your name is called, would you?
So what are we timing Timmay on? Zero to $1 trillion wouldn't even register on any of the chronometers that I know of.
its good cop bad cop..... tyler. forget about it. don't endorse any of them. i know how it is. we all feel that maybe someone up there really cares but they don't. not really.
More bullshit from The Greatest Dog and Pony Show on Earth.
Barney Rubble says "Name one person who can tell me how we're going to break them up". They're too big to touch?
Daniel K. Tarullo, a Fed governor, said last week that dividing up the biggest banks would be fraught with "conceptual and practical challenges," and is "more a provocative idea than a proposal,"
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/10/26/AR200910...
I love provocative ideas. Blog fertilizer.
The Moral Hazards of Barney Frank’s Bank Salvation Plan.
http://blogs.wsj.com/deals/2009/10/27/the-moral-hazards-of-barney-franks...
Total bullshit.
Actually it is very easy. Stand the CEO up against a wall and tell him to do it. If he declines, shoot him.
Then call for the next in line. Sooner or later
someone will agree. If he fails, shoot him and try
again. Worked in a lot of places for a lot of
dictators. I wouldn't particularly want to live in
a system like that but I don't run the system. Do I?
However laudable future legislation might be, we can not pin our hopes on future legislation, which may or may not pass...this year, next year, or ever. Simultaneously, we need to fight for what can be done right now to curb the too big to fail firms. Prosecutors can break up the criminal activity at the "too big to fail" firms right now! Legislation would put the nail in the coffin, but prosecutors can act now.
We need Racketeer Influenced and Corrupt Organizations Act (RICO) prosecutions and mass trials in style of the Maxiprocesso (Maxi Trial) of the Mafia in Sicily during the mid-1980s that resulted in hundreds of defendants convicted. We need RICO confiscations of the hundreds of billions in illegal "profits" from the criminal enterprises of the banks, mortgage industry, and Wall Street Mafia.
The only thing that has any hope of stopping the continual rape and pillage of the investors, pensioners, city and state funds, and taxpayers is to see the entire Wall Street crime family along with co-conspirators at the Fed, Treasury and SEC arrested and perp walked in handcuffs to federal and state jails. Now. Not a year from now.
Is there a prosecutor who is hungry for scungilli, and becoming a national hero?
Tom a taxpayer,
I second the call for that prosecuting, and hungry attorney that will have the balls to summons the excavation team required to dig.
poco
absolutely and we need a lot of dead banksters....
but i also believe that the holy banks should be
desecrated and broken up.....
the last time a president tried to break up an
organization too big for its britches he got his
brains splattered all over his car...
so folks need to proceed with caution...
"the last time a president tried to break up an
organization too big for its britches he got his
brains splattered all over his car..."
+1000
let's get our sea creatures correct on the menu as they try to eat our lunch!
minor point, but please let's not confuse conch with squid.
Somehow, this seems a bit silly.I mean,seriously,is the inherent criminality not obvious enough?Would the companies not shrink to a manageable size after paying a fine commensurate with the crimes committed?We need serious enforcement of all applicable laws first...not after the scum have destroyed everything totally.Even so, I signed the petition.Anything to throw a little sand in the gears of the evil machine.
I am afraid I agree with the post above....namely that a watt's will get this too.ARRRGGGGHHHHH!!!!!
Is it April 1st already? If you think this will pass, I have a bridge to sell you.
Well if people don't put the effort in to support his efforts than it has no chance. Everyone said Obama wouldn't get elected and look how that turned out. At least if you have try support you will know you've put the effort in.
Bernie Sanders is for cap and trade, dozers at zerohedge.
Take a deep breath----you zerohedgers--if you buy Bernie's schtick...you suck!
A petition. What a useless piece o Viagra-starved effort. Why don't we just eat another 4 doughnuts instead?
Wanna be truly hedged? Save every penny. Invest in physical gold and silver and Goldman Sachs' latest credit default swaps (or, if they have such a product, their high-frequency trading mutual fund).
Yes.I am an idiot.So petition boy sanders is handing them cap and trade..the GS uber robbery matrix, while he "menaces" with a petition.Damn damn damn!!!!!!Man, did I ever get hosed.And the proposed law change will prosper like an ice cube in a blast furnace.
How utterly typical.
Simply because I have a conscience.
WTF does this have to do with cap and trade?
You can call your critter to urge support for this bill AND tell him you don't want cap and trade!
Better yet, enlighten him to the fact cap and trade is just another Wall St. scam!
http://thetaildoesnotwagthedog.blogspot.com/2009/08/goldman-sachs-and-gl...
I have informed my reps that I am against cap and trade.But sanders supports giving the farm to GS, while appearing to support reform.He has either never looked at what cap and trade really is or he is a cynical tool.I suspect the latter.And that is what pissed me off.
I agree we should break them up.....but I favor criminal prosecution first.
Can't we just put Glass Stiegal(sp?) back in place?
Got my Citibank letter today. With perfect credit, my rate is going to 20% and I pay a yearly fee of $75 for this card. It's my business card. Good thing I pay it off monthly.
The thing is, it wasn't the "TBTF" financial institutions that put the taxpayer on the hook, it was the government. It wasn't the "TBTF" institutions that got that big all on their own...the government was complicit and in fact created "TBTF".
I submit that the government itself is "Too Big To Fail" and should be immediately downsized, declawed and defanged, before placing the full blame on financial institutions who have enjoyed the benefits of regulatory capture, backstopping, bailouts, and general moral hazard for much too long. Simply breaking them up will accomplish little, as long as the government needs them to help bankroll their power.
If you're going to be promoting go-nowhere petitions, at least go with one that speaks truth, instead of Bernie's 'government knows best' schtick.
I concur with your assertion and second your motion. USG = TBTF = RIP.
I am Chumbawamba.
I'll third that motion on USG = TBTF.
Uncle Slam abuses or ignores its constitutional mandates and continually trumps State's rights at many levels. So we get what we got right here.
Only a Constitutional Convention of the States could possibly fix the mess now. I'd sure like to see one in my lifetime.
Wanna get results? Rather than tea parties, let's hold "pull your mutha fuckin money out of the TBTF bank" parties or as I like to call them, PYMFMOOTTBTFB parties. Pick a day next month and let everyone know that TBTF Day is a special holiday that is celebrated by withdrawing money from a specific list of banks. It will be our way of thanking these institutions for being too big too fail. Hallmark could make a killing on this idea.
God damn, another great idea. Someone ought to take the lead on this. T'would be a perfect ZH project (so totally Fight Club).
I am Chumbawamba.
Just came up with a nice and simple domain name possibility: ftbtf.com (I checked and it's available)
F&!# TBTF!!
Done! Pulled the final funds out Tuesday when the last CD matured. Cancelled the $0 balance credit card months ago, never activated post-takeover debit card nor even their online banking, due to their acceptance terms.
Would not return, regardless of what interest rate or free money they try to entice one with.
Have encouraged everyone I know to follow suit for the past year.
Done! Pulled the final funds out Tuesday when the last CD matured. Cancelled the $0 balance credit card months ago, never activated post-takeover debit card nor even their online banking, due to their acceptance terms.
Would not return, regardless of what interest rate or free money they try to entice one with.
Have encouraged everyone I know to follow suit for the past year.
My wife got a $2,300 bonus from her employer for moving their excess cash from Wachovia to Tbills last year. She's getting another bonus this year for moving the entire business from Wachovia to a local bank.
will never ever happen... sorry peeps
You people are really sad/pathetic.
Lloyd, how ya doing, buddy? Always good to hear from you.
with all due respect Ned, I think it was the diet coke man.
please stop hoggin the m&m's brother larry.
Money, get away
Get a good job with more pay
And your O.K.
Money, it's a gas
Grab that cash with both hands
And make a stash
New car, caviar, four star daydream
Think I'll buy me a football team
Money get back
I'm all right Jack
Keep your hands off my stack
Money, it's a hit
Don't give me that
Do goody good bullshit
I'm in the hi-fidelity
First class traveling set
And I think I need a Lear jet
(Sax and guitar solos)
Money, it's a crime
Share it fairly
But don't take a slice of my pie
Money, so they say
Is the root of all evil
Today
But if you ask for a rise
It's no surprise that they're
Giving none away
Away
Away
Away
Away...
"Hu Huh! I was in the right!"
"Yes, absolutely in the right!"
"I certainly was in the right!"
"You was definitely in the right. That geezer was cruising for a bruising!"
"Yeah!"
"Why does anyone do anything?"
"I don't know, I was really drunk at the time!"
"I was just telling him, he couldn't get into number 2. He was asking
Why he wasn't coming up on freely, after I was yelling and
Screaming and telling him why he wasn't coming up on freely.
It came as a heavy blow, but we sorted the matter out"
My plan is still:
1) Return to glass-steagel
2) Limit banks to territories no larger than a federal reserve district.
This would break those 5 silly-sized banks into ~60 pieces - with plenty of new regional action.
To me, the best side effect of it is that congress would not be able to call em all into the back room and threaten them with any policy!
You can't make this stuff up. As Twain said, fiction is more difficult than non-fiction, because fiction has to be believable.
The arrogance and sense of entitlement of the banking "elite" is beyond belief. They could teach the most useless and vile royalty a thing or two.
The bankstas have blocked every attempt to peer into their activities and get an accurate impression of where they stand and how they make money, or at least pretend to make it. They create false profits and reward themselves with real money for their fantasy gains, then when reality can be denied no longer and the SHTF, they foist everything onto the innocent and naive. Then they go back to grossly overcompensating themselves all over again for a job poorly done.
Now, however, it really gets bizarre, as if we were not already in the Twilight Zone. They get flu vaccines before hospitals. They can block any attempt to lessen their threat to the system by forcing them to pare down. Now they even think they have a right to tell FASB how to run accounting, particularly when the cold light of day might reveal them to be what they really are: incompetent parasites.
Change accounting rules during down periods to be able to hide their true condition, as they are now petitioning to be able to do? Why even go to the trouble of running a goddamn business? Just take in deposits, determine what you think you could make if you timed everything correctly, then award yourself a bonus for your delusional profits, pat yourself on the back, and refer to yourself as a warrior.
Enough is enough. Time to erase this scourge from society. Wipe out their entire gene pool is fine by me. I am all in favor not only of breaking up these pampered brats, but also dipping each and every one of them, plus their progeny, in lard and dropping them off in Taliban-controlled Waziristan. See if any of them really are warriors. And just in case any of them got away, I would also release the entire population of Guantanamo into the Hamptons with carte blanche to attend any cotillion or "charity fund raiser (sic)" they wish. Just wait until Khalid Sheikh Mohammed hits on one of these clown's daughters at a debutante ball.
All cathartic kidding aside, their arrogance is going to come back to haunt them. The bankstas' latest shananigans are probably going to bring about the first instances of real and horrific violence directed against some or many of them. Too many folks want blood, and given that the bankstas are guilty as sin, it will be their blood that spills. Given what they have done and the manner in which they have done it, I cannot say I will shed a tear.
Sanders ran as a socialist on the independent ticket. Obama can't have Ron Paul messing with the Fed. And if public support/outrage demands breaking up the TBTF's Obama wants one of his own to write it. Besides it's time to trow Timmy and maybe Uncle Ben under the bus.
Help prove the premise of this petition by defaulting on all your credit cards and forcing your soon-to-be-former bank masters into bankruptcy. Shut them all down. Starve those dogs. Send those demons back to hell.
Government is not your master, damn it! You own those bitches. ACT LIKE IT.
I am Chumbawamba.
They are content to ignore us, just like the tea party protestors - they own the media.
The only thing they understand is power and money, so we need a list of companies to boycott including TBTF banks. Tyler, you and the other top blogosphere sites may need to take the lead on this as we would like to have more influence as a group - like a VOTERS UNION since we are impotent unless organized. Already a Ron Paul supporter but we can do more. Nationwide work strikes, credit & mortgage defaults unless the fed, TBTF's, SEC/DTCC and Fort Knox are audited. Open the books, jail the crooks!
Use the money you save by defaulting on your CC and mortgage to buy physical silver and gold. Make them write off your bad loans and squeeze their shorts. Anytime you hear someone complain about the economy or the banks tell them this is how you hurt the JPM and GS the most.
I wholehearted agree with chumbawumba and tally to do all you can to pull all your business away from these TBTF institutions.
I also agree with the ZeroHedge endorsement. These actions may not seem like much, but they do have a cumulative effect. And their not mutually exclusive.
The petition at hand isn't an endorsement of Bernie Sanders, and it's not an endorsement of Cap and Trade. Heck, I don't expect the petition to necessarily result in anything meaningful in becoming law.
So why endorse the petition? To expose our real friends and enemies in CONgress. The one thing I discovered on the Audit the Fed bill was that Mel Watt is Public Enemy #1. We all know what Barney Frank-- the process only confims it.
Once you can identifies your real enemies in the process, you can concentrate your efforts in getting the bums out of office. If my congressional rep doesn't endose this bill, I'm going to do what I can to support her opponent. If someone else like Watt derails the process, their opponent will get my finanical support. It's not like I want to keep my money in my local TBTF bank, anyway.
+1
"this is how you hurt the JPM and GS the most."
you do realize this includes not trading Direxion (GS) & ProShares (JPM) ETF's, yes?
"Open the books, jail the crooks!" Sums it up beautifully. Thank you.
Red Commie bas*ards. Our great soldiers dont go to die in Iraq for these commie politicians to impose socialism at home.
Wow, way to conjure up the Cold War propaganda! What do you do for an encore? We've had socialism at home since Teddy Roosevelt and our soldiers have nearly always gone to die for things that the public did not understand nor would have supported had they understood it.
Good idea. Who needs 90 days? Is that a joke? I can have the list on your desk by Monday morning.
It's interesting that zerohedge backs an overt communist, even if his plans are good this time.
And when the hell am I going to get my membership approved?
123317.... i believe you are incorrect. ZH is backing and supporting a petition to reform the TBTFs. Please do a better job at reading. Thank you.
.
Citizens! (not 'consumers') UNITE!!!
.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8de2W3rtZsA
.
Killing in the name of
Some of those that were forces, are the same that bore crosses
Killing in the name of
And now you do what they told ya
Those who died are justified, for wearing the badge, they're the chosen ones
You justify those that died by wearing a badge, they're the chosen ones
Some of those that were forces, are the same that bore crosses
Killing in the name of
And now you do what they told ya
And now you're under control
And now you do what they told ya
And now you're under control
Those who died are justified, for wearing the badge, they're the chosen ones
You justify those that died by wearing a badge, they're the chosen ones
Fuck you, I won't do what you tell me!
Motherfucker!
.
Here's to Amorica! Fight like hell!!!
.
When the revolution starts, RATM will be our battle music.
Bulls on parade, mother fucker.
I am Chumbawamba.
I think we need to recognize that we are fast approaching a bank holiday with a currency devaluation. The bankers have seen the plan, thus 29% card rates to shake out as much cash as possible before that date. With WB out of the blue overpaying for a railroad. I'm expecting to see more bizarre buy outs that seem to make no sense in the coming weeks. Stocks and pm's will sky rocket leading into the reset.
Don't be caught short going into a bank holiday/official currency devaluation weekend.
Thank you for the warning about a bank holiday/official currency devaluation weekend. That is part of Ben Bernanke's end game.
Ben Bernanke speech (Nov 21, 2002) exceprt:
"Although a policy of intervening to affect the exchange value of the dollar is nowhere on the horizon today, it's worth noting that there have been times when exchange rate policy has been an effective weapon against deflation. A striking example from U.S. history is Franklin Roosevelt's 40 percent devaluation of the dollar against gold in 1933-34, enforced by a program of gold purchases and domestic money creation. The devaluation and the rapid increase in money supply it permitted ended the U.S. deflation remarkably quickly. Indeed, consumer price inflation in the United States, year on year, went from -10.3 percent in 1932 to -5.1 percent in 1933 to 3.4 percent in 1934.17 The economy grew strongly, and by the way, 1934 was one of the best years of the century for the stock market. If nothing else, the episode illustrates that monetary actions can have powerful effects on the economy, even when the nominal interest rate is at or near zero, as was the case at the time of Roosevelt's devaluation."
http://www.federalreserve.gov/BOARDDOCS/SPEECHES/2002/20021121/default.h...
No shit, I gotta start reading more. Is this MoFo telegraphing his moves or what?
Anon 123342 - you're in good, albeit mixed company - both
Bob Chapmanand
Niall Fergusonanticipate a devaluation of the USD
I think that if a TBTF bill actually made it out of committee, the banksters would send their goon squads out to kneecap the trouble makers. You don't mess with that crew.
This big blue marble is so large that 'hide the sausage' games will find a proper-sized rubber hole. If gold were the answer, you'd load up and they'd change the rules. Slow and steady attrition gives the game a real systemic push like the result of any other thoughtful process. The next capital gains check goes through a TBTF to a credit union..wham, bam, TYM.
Tony the tiger!
That's the beauty of gold. It has no owner, no master. You cannot manipulate it. In a paper world, sure, but when the paper turns back into so much pulp, the world will once again be ruled by metal.
I am Chumbawamba.
So, sign the petition. If enough sign, it sends a message.
I'm afraid of cross contamination with the cap and trade message.
The only reason this douche is pushing this hollow seductive bill is so he can appear to have clout. Fuck your carbon bullshit Goldbitch Sacbags!
If Congress wanted to pass this they don't need no stinking petition! They already have enough Socialist, Liberal, Progressive, Communist votes to pass it!
Very soon GS and Co. is going to find out what my grandfather taught me a long time ago. "Son if you had to choose between making a deal with a commie or with the devil, go with the devil. You will be much better off."
A petition isn't likely to accomplish much. But if someone will figure out the degree to which the top four banks are involved in Roubini's dollar carry trade bubble we might get a tipping point.
As power concentrates in fewer players the next meltdown will see them carry the weight of the blame.
Some of you sure get in bed with some real freaks. Sanders, Grayson yeah they may be right on this issue yet if they had their way that $700 billion one time fee would be our annual bill in their wealth redistribution scheme.
I'm waiting for one of the millions of unemployed to stare down the barrel of a gun at the fathers of NAFTA, China WTO admission and the great vampire squid itself, pull the trigger and get us the justice that law enforcement refuses to provide. At this point vigilantism is the only way.
and so thought the bolsheviks
The first step in your recovery program is to admit that you are a sheeple.
Repeat; "I am a sheeple".
Yes, good very good.
There is only way for the People to stop this. Civil Disobedience on a massive scale - As somebody suggested - closing bank accounts is a great first step. We can follow it up with boycotting 401k's and Pension fund (that one is not optional though). That will shutoff of 2 of the three main sources - the 'other-peoples-money' spigots for these fraudsters.
Who wants to take the lead ?
There is only way for the People to stop this. Civil Disobedience on a massive scale - As somebody suggested - closing bank accounts is a great first step. We can follow it up with boycotting 401k's and Pension fund (that one is not optional though). That will shutoff of 2 of the three main sources - the 'other-peoples-money' spigots for these fraudsters.
Who wants to take the lead ?
I havn't seen Sanders bill and knowing he is for something almost automatically makes me against it, however, I do believe that if a company is "too big to fail" they are "too big."
This is NOT socialism, we need free and competitive markets, not dominated by monopolies or oligopolies. Gov't will not be taking control of the production, just breaking up one too large private company into smaller unrelated private companies. Teddy Roosevelt broke up the huge banking trusts at the turn of the 19th century, it may be time for another Rough Rider....
Still can't believe I agree with Sanders.
Judge, rather than thinking of who you agree with (Sanders, Volker, Reed), think of the people that you disagree with (Bernanke, Geithner, Paulson, Rubin, Blankfein, Dimon, Frank, Pelosi, Kashkari, and so on).
Some people are having a problem because Sanders is a socialist, but he's a pure capitalist on this issue. Unfortunately many of our elected officials who voted in favor of TARP are the ones who are being socialist.
An enemy of my enemy is my friend.
But he is in government. Who says he is a COMPETENT socialist?
Another bank closed for 1.4 billion, added to the 132.7 million announced earlier
Another bank closed for 1.4 billion, added to the 132.7 million announced earlier
I submit to you that all of our weak elected officials don't have the backbone to do these things. It is pure attention getting. In the end, they have a friend they don't want to legislate against. Sara Palin would be the only one I would trust to do such a feat.
I submit to you that all of our weak elected officials don't have the backbone to do these things. It is pure attention getting. In the end, they have a friend they don't want to legislate against. Sara Palin would be the only one I would trust to do such a feat.
Oh my. The only one in that posse that I trust is her almost son-in-law Levi Johnston. Don't mess with him.
Levi: If I wanted to crush her I could.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wgWUIE8oEv0
I can tell you from personal experience that politicians can only throw out sound bites and write funny little position papers and sponsor bills. They can't achieve any of the noble causes you're recommending. The power resides in the world of hedge funds (e.g., Paulson, Chanos, on the PPT), investment banks (GS, MS, JPM), and private equity (Kravis, Blackstone, et al). These people spend a huge amount of time and money flying down to DC, meeting with their chosen officials (e.g., Schumer, put into office with Rattner's money and influence), ensuring the "debate" doesn't inspire any fundamental change. All these really wealthy people make decisions based on the rules that existed before this year. No way those rules will be unwound. If you listen to Kravis on the subject of regulation you will understand that poor Obama and that strange little man Frank don't stand a chance. I am with the Dryships CEO (who may have been misquoted), and believe most American investors are stupid.
+100, Edna. Government by and for the People has quickly morphed into Government by and for the Government . Electeds have become the shills in the Great Church of Banking and Wall Street.
These relationships have always existed to greater or lesser degree. But in the past, they were committed to an agreement among thieves: ALWAYS keep the goose alive !! Now, even that doesn't matter.
Timmy will wipe his ass with it.
Whoa.....wait just a minute....
How ahout enforcing the laws that are already on the books....
ie FRAUD...in the rating agencies
RICO...
Antitrust....
Fascism....
it is a long long list....
Wash rinse repeat.
I am a bit slow ... is systemic risk even real? it seems everyone accepts this notion axiomatically.
Why not let em get as big as they want and let em fail if insolvent ? I have been told ... something very bad will happen .. unimaginable in fact ... if too big to fail fails... but I have a hard to accepting this ….it seems intuitively obvious to me that allowing em to fail might lead to real change , The notion that with freedom comes responsibility may take hold ... but wait … that would be a bad thing I guess … what would that lead to ? Freedom gone wild ? ...dang...I guess WE cant have that, would be too hard to control.
It seems to me, but I am not at all clever, so cut me some slack, as soon as we accept the concept too big to fail is real it seems to my pea sized brain that we implicitly accept collective responsibility for any failure of too big to fail. Too my eyes this is the real end game ... get the masses to think they are a collective and not sovereign. But as you realize, I am a kook and have gone off the deep edge.
Being a bit slow, I have a hard time accepting too big to fail as being anything more than a false concept that has been presented by who knows who and accepted by the masses as a fact.
I am so wacky I am beginning to link too big to fail systematic risk acceptance thinking to the global warming ...err.. global climate change collectivist thinking.
Slow moving ...and very confused ... so having a difficult time with
what is real and what I have been led to believe is real. Is everything based on filtered information presented as facts represented as the complete data set from which I am asked to draw my conclusions? Good Lord I have become way too cynical. Off to slit my wrists.
Agreed, let them fail.
The only reason there is 'systemic risk' is because the government in its wisdom decided that keeping the risk private was undesirable...they wanted access to those $quid tentacles. So they socialized the risk.
Privatize the risk. Cut off the tentacles.
The problem here is, it's like asking a leech to decouple from its host. The government wants that money, the banks want that moral hazard and regulatory capture.
Merely breaking up a "TBTF" bank will only turn a few large tentacles into a whole bunch of smaller ones. I don't know what's worse...but I do know it won't solve the problem, and it's not a free-market capitalist solution.
Dear Senator Leahy:
Pat, TBTF? How can we just have an unlimited bailout here? Gee, who is getting the taxpayer money? The BIG FOUR!
Freddie Loses $6.3B in Q3, Announced Late Friday (Hmmn, why don't they tout this first thing on Monday? Provisions up only 46% from Q2? Hand going back into the cookie jar for WHAT $10B more- corrupt, disgusting, unconscionable, just, evil)
HEADLINE(should be): OVER $25B in losses for FNM & FRE in Q309, if you believe their phony accounting
Freddie Mac posts $5 billion loss
* On 7:00 pm EST, Friday November 6, 2009 (!!!)
By Al Yoon (Al, who tells you to spin this? Any accounting knowledge, no? didn't think so)
NEW YORK (Reuters) - Freddie Mac (NYSE:FRE - News; NYSE:FRE - News), the second largest provider of U.S. residential mortgage funding, on Friday posted a loss of $5 billion in the third quarter and predicted it would need more government support amid a "prolonged deterioration" in housing.
Increases in the value of securities Freddie Mac held over the period helped buoy its net worth, however, erasing its need to tap government funds for a second straight quarter to stay solvent while continuing to buy and guarantee home loans. (!!! what securities increased in value? government overpaid for CDS?)
Including a $1.3 billion dividend payment on senior preferred stock bought by the Treasury in previous quarters, Freddie Mac's third-quarter loss increases to $6.3 billion.
The home funding company's loss comes amid a rise in provisions for credit losses to $7.6 billion in the quarter, up 46 percent compared with the previous quarter, as delinquencies worsened on loans it guarantees. Provisions will remain high this quarter, it added. "I would say we are just beginning to see the impact of the chargeoffs on their guarantee book," said Janaki Rao, vice president of mortgage research at Morgan Stanley in New York. ("JUST BEGINNING!!")
Its larger rival Fannie Mae (NYSE:FNM - News; NYSE:FNM - News) on Thursday said it would need $15 billion from the U.S. Treasury after a whopping $18.9 billion third-quarter loss.
Results at Freddie Mac and Fannie Mae are widely watched as a barometer of the U.S. housing market since they own or back nearly half of outstanding mortgages. (But WIDELY IGNORED!!)
The losses have presented a dilemma to Congress as it wants to protect taxpayers' money but is also counting on the companies to undertake foreclosure prevention efforts which are significantly adding to expenses.
In order to ease the terms of loans under the Obama administration's Making Home Affordable refinancing program, the companies must buy the mortgages out of securities, and write down their value. Seeking alternatives to foreclosures also means bad loans sit on their books longer.
Despite signs of recovery in home sales and prices (WHAT SIGNS??), rising delinquencies and unemployment levels mean the housing market is still fragile, Freddie said. High unemployment, foreclosures and excess inventory will impede the recovery "for some time" and push house prices lower, the company said.
This means that Freddie Mac's survival will continue to depend on support from the government, which forced the company and Fannie Mae into conservatorship in September 2008. Freddie Mac has taken $51.7 billion since then while Fannie Mae's draw will rise to $60.9 billion. For Freddie Mac, "the positive net worth without the help from the Treasury is significant, but it is too early to say whether an end to conservatorship is ahead," Rao said. (POSITIVE NET WORTH? In what wet dream, Bozo??)
Starting in 2010, the company will begin accounting for $1.8 trillion in mortgage-backed securities it guarantees on its balance sheet to meet new guidelines. This will increase interest income and interest expenses, and could have a significant negative impact on net worth, it said. Shares of Freddie Mac were flat at $1.23 in light after-hours trading following the results. (Oh, Yes, "New Accounting" schemes)
Actually this legislation would benefit everyone, except Goldman, assuming that they have special powers with the government and the marketplace, that they would lose (to the benefit of their competitors and the citizens). You may ask why would a large bank want to give up their government backstop? Well because if they compete with Goldman, it's just a matter of time before it's their turn to fail, for whatever reason (i.e. Lehman).
Let's imagine what the landscape would look like after the break up. These large institutions would become numerous smaller ones, perhaps three or more of these type entities; 1. bank(s) 2. investment bank(s) 3. hedge fund(s).
Lean and mean. Competitive. Let the strong survive and profit and pay mega bonuses. There's nothing for the management of the big banks, or their shareholders, to fear. On the contrary; the shareholders should demand this!
Just imagine returning to capitalism. That would send a message.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=okd3hLlvvLw
How again does it help, when the Fed keeps offering easy money, printing bailouts, extending moral hazard into the next millenium...? When the government uses quid pro quo to fill campaign coffers?
Let the banks fail, don't reward them by letting them live on as lots of little mini-squids. Systemic failure? Perhaps, but it's a system that deserves to fail.
Quick and painful, versus slow and catastrophic.
I just chose Vermont for my ski vacation this year!
No financial institution that does not provide general public banking services may be classified as a bank.
No financial institution meeting the definition of a bank may invest or own derivitives.
Only financial institutions meeting the definition of a bank may borrow funds from the Federal Reserve.
No financial institution meeting the definition of a bank may have more than 50% of its senior managers be white males over the age of 55 years.
It's a problem when the gov't is in charge of the break-up. I call BS on this endorsement. Sorry. I tend to agree with a lot of what goes on here at ZH, but not this.
the too big to fail entities should be allowed to fail. there are a thousand little guys waiting to take their place & compete for customers.
The problem is each of them will threaten to crash the entire system if they go under. They already did that once. No need to call their bluff, just break em up now. It work for Standard Oil.
the system is crashing anyways and it would be a lot less painful for everyone if the entities were to fail and get their clocks cleaned out by market forces.
btw, w/ Standard Oil we ended up with oligopolists and I can tell you from personal experience w/ a family business involved with these oligopolists that it DID NOT work. It's still corporatism and corporatism breeds corruption and corruption never bodes well for the collective, only a few elites benefit in that relationship. Good-intentioned government intervention is far worse than letting the market clear this shit up.
cb, we're on the same page with regard to the free market and its benefits. the problem is that our politicians will fold at the first threat that a tbtf will crash the system. unfortunately the free market option that most of us agree with, is in reality, off the table.
CW..I don't agree at all. It's definitely on the table, eventually. Maybe tomorrow, next week, next year or 10 or so years. I wouldn't dare guess when, but I will wager that the level of fail will grow in proportion to the level of intervention in the market. It might take decades for these policies to fail (as in 1913-present) but they will always fail, eventually.
I Did my duty by contacting 10 Senators & congressman in the state of New York with lenghty emails asking them to support this bill AND COSPONSORING AUDTING THE FED.
If they Audit the Fed everything collapses and we can return to our gold Standard
Stupid. I have a better solution to break up the banks with no government intervention - let them go bankrupt.
Somebody please explain to me in great detail what would(could) happen if one/they "failed".
Failure would be defined as the inability to cover meagerly collateralized derivities marketed worldwide ( a la AIG ) covering a variety of risk based assets. Amounts in the many trillions. And most importantly, this silly paper carrying wrong-way bets was marketed in great quantities to public and private pension funds, insurance companies, etc. A signifigant defaulting event would force dramatic changes to the payout scenario to Ma and Pa Kettle ( annuities are an especially daunting issue ). And State and local governments would seek and get an Uncle Slam-backed ability to issue bonds to cover the massive shortfall. That would assume no outright loss covering such as TARP II ON STEROIDS.
The weight of growing CRE losses on top of residential would be enough to trigger the collapse of many were it not for the mark-to-myth relief. Thus the constant reference to ZOMBIES.
Thank you Mr. Smith, I still fail to see the end-of-the-world scenario being espoused by the aforementioned TBTF'ers.
The final detail evolves into WW III. All previous 20th Century global wars were triggered by soured economics ( especially defaulted debt ) and/or nagging territorial disputes . We are already involved in a long running regional spiritual war in the Middle East......the probable ignition when dynamite meets fuse.
"It's only after we've lost everything that we're free to do anything."
"freedom's just another word for nothin left to lose."
off topic -
Very Important: the REAL unemployment rate is 22%!
During the clinton administation the government changed the unemployment calculation.
"The SGS Alternate Unemployment Rate reflects current unemployment reporting methodology adjusted for SGS-estimated "discouraged workers" defined away during the Clinton Administration added to the existing BLS estimates of level U-6 unemployment.
Current measure: 22% !!
Orwellian indeed!
you can confirm my numbers of 22% here - excellent site -
http://www.shadowstats.com/alternate_data
http://www.shadowstats.com
Every administration since GW has been fucking with the economic numbers, some better than others. It has gotten completely out of hand since Clinton but Bush set new standards for manipulation.
But I agree that shadowstats.com is an excellent site for an unvarnished view.
+100
I find it interesting that Treasury has said no to the squid/grandpa buffett (so called capitalist lately seen sucking on the gov't mammary as if it was a Dairy Queen milkshake) scheme to purchase tax bennies from out staid mortgage agencies.
Perhaps Treasury is getting a bit nervous about the restless natives?
rahm saw the election results from jersey.
Bernie Sanders? LOL! Puuuleeeeze!
If the world were just, Elvis would be alive and all his impersonators would be dead.
In that same world. . .
Christopher Dodd, Barney Frank or Richard Shelby would be calling for this type of action. Let me know when that happens (you can tell because Hell will be freezing over at that time) and I'll get excited about it.
Am jobless and not understanding why I took a loan, worked so hard for my degree, paid my taxes and mortgages and now have to watch billions going to bailout Goldman and others so they can take riskier bets while my community bank is being shut down. Why are our community banks not treated equally?
I guess it is ME who caused this, 300 million not-so-talented, polictically unconnected ME-s across Amercica, and our VILE and PATHETIC existence that allowed for this skewed capitalism to take place right before our very eyes and in our very own backyards. As I watched them shuttering
our not-too-big-to-fail bank that employed only our small-town folks, recalling the day my carpenter Dad and I opened my first savings accounts, I cannot but feel bulldozed by the Washington folks and their Wall Street cornies. Am I going mad, am I the only middle-aged, unemployed mom who finds it hard to explain to her children what has become of the America that she misses so dearly?
I gave my single vote to the man I thought would stand up for the little people, to defend capitalism and the chance that it would bring to everyone, not just to the "select" few. And if this President ain't doing anything this, what good will this stupid petition do?
Our Asian neighbour was telling my husband and I that America is beyond communism, for in China, they would have bailed out EVERY bank, and put the CEOs that crashed too-big-to-fail banks in the firing ring... that's true communism for you...
Welcome to capitalist America folks, useless people like me deserves to get pooped on. I am not bitter, I have no right to be bitter, I am just a Nobody.