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Zero Hedge Video Analysis Reveals Paintball Guns, Secret Turkish Weapon
Tellingly, a number of commentators on the recent "Gaza Flotilla" kerfuffle, including some right here on Zero Hedge, appear to have fallen prey to the seductive wiles of the Palestinian (and now Turkish) propaganda ministry, painting the Israeli Defense Forces as a "go in guns blazing" murder squad victimizing a few, poor, international protesters on an innocent blockade runner on a diplomatic mission that absolutely, positively did not intercept those transmissions. True, it seemed quite unlikely that the IDF would board a blockade runner ("Darth Vader. Only you could be so bold.") with just paintball guns, but exclusive Zero Hedge analysis can now reveal that not only did IDF forces board the Mavi Marmara with sidearms holstered and only paint ball guns as their primary weapons, but, in what must be the most significant Israeli intelligence failure in decades, they were unwittingly lured into facing a historic and potent enemy they could not hope to vanquish with colored ink.
We refer, of course, to Turkish cavalry.
While surely unconventional to deploy at sea, Turkish cavalry has commanded fear and respect since the Battle of Bapheus in 1302, and, in more contemporary times, in the Greco-Turkish war between 1919 and 1922, most notably in the Battle of Dumlup?nar, finally vanquishing the Greek presence in Anatolia.
Indeed, had we not seen the video with our own eyes, it would be difficult to credit the addition of Marine Cavalry units to the asymmetric order of battle facing the IDF, but the video evidence is incontrovertible. Our frame by frame analysis of IDF provided video clearly shows the presence of feared Turkish Marine Cavalry on board the Mavi Marmara.
Frame-by-Frame Slow Motion Analysis
IDF Member with Paintball Gun
Dreaded Turkish Cavalry
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Marla, I really fail to understand the reason for this post and I must add this is the very first time I have been rather troubled by some of the content published on Zero Hedge.
If your intent was to satirize this unfortunate event, I think this post was highly inappropriate and in very poor taste.
If on the other hand it was a way of voicing your pro-Israeli views (if any), this is in my opinion a very bad idea for two reasons. Firstly it does nothing but antagonize a large majority of your readership. Secondly, by taking sides on a highly charged long-standing political issue, in which Israel is certainly not without fault, Zero Hedge comes across as unduly biased, which can only have an adverse effect on its overall credibility.
+1000
There are many Tylers who don't share Marla's views (diametrically opposed is more like it), and they more than balance out Marla's views. Check out the other posts.
WoW. Quite a surprise. So many of the anti-establishment fight club are pro-likud? Unless I'm misreading things, it THAT position doesn't seem to fit very well with the meme around here. The misinterpretation of maritime law, international law, the reaching for justification. I'm just surprised, that's all. I don't know what TDs opinion is on this matter, but anything pro-Likud would surprise the hell out of me. It would fly in the face of the core theme on this website, it seems to me.
This was a criminal action. Piracy in international waters. Paint, guns, doesn't matter one whit. It was criminal piracy. When you board a ship illegally at night with anything shaped as a gun, you're bound to get shot right back, which by the way is legal: shooting a pirate in international waters. They put Americans, Irish, Turks, Israelis, a even a holocaust survivor in harms way, predictably too, with a nightime raid on the high seas. It flew the flag of Turkey which is now a very serious issue. They are our ally and a member of NATO with all the rights and privileges that bestows.
Illegal and unjustified doesn't even begin to explain this. Stupid is a understatement. Especially considering the easy options that were available to achieve Israel's goals without the act of piracy or bloodshed.
This is the beginning of the end of the Likud's power in Israel which is about a nice as the end of bank reign in the United States.
Its funny seeing the worms crawl out of the woodwork complaining about one article which offers a different perspective, to the usual Israel/jews are evil theme.
Marla, march yourself off to the gas chambers now! :-)
It appears the main thing is ZH readership is satisfied. Business is business
I think Marla got emotional and blew her cover. I bet she'll re-read this post in two weeks and regret writing it.
Emotional? As opposed to the calls for the extermination of Israel in the last five threads on this topic?
Extermination? Now that's emotional. How can the internet-tough-boy be crying into his keyboard?
Why can't they just leave, like the French left Algeria?
Why can't they knock off the racism and live with one person one vote in a multi ethnic society?
Your grasping at everything will result in you having nothing.
Why don't you just leave America, like the French left Algeria?
Why don't you open your eyes?
+1. They don't even notice the other Tylers' take on the issue...
You're only saying that because you're a typical guy thinking she must be crazy when really you're just not up to par.
Actually, it's warming up to be one of my very favorites.
Consider what we have learned. The histrionics are so severe, so lacquered with hate and spittle that virtually no one has wound back and addressed why a horse (mule?) is pictured in the video. Or how very odd that is. No surprise that an obvious paintgun is totally 1984'd out of reality along with it.
Leaving aside for a moment the many assumptions about me (false to the last example, as it happens) that have to be laid on to ad hominem the attack away from reality, it is utterly fascinating how quickly a discussion of the video and the evidence therein, that is an attempt to establish the facts, devolves into mindless name calling, circular argument and theater of the absurd. What else can we call it when someone with "Shylock" as the root of there username accuses others of being antisemitic- and does so apparently without even catching the scent of irony therein?
I am also taken by the fact that somewhere it apparently became important for authors discussing news to have a passion about it. Not being reverent enough about the facts, or failing to display outrage has somehow become grounds on which to indict an author. That seems to me entirely backwards, but there it is.
It is equally fascinating, if a little sad, how few people understand what Zero Hedge is about, and that most of them, in fact, stand for what Zero Hedge is NOT. Namely, those brave souls in comments who call on an author to be removed because the essence of her content is not to their liking. Oh, how easy it is to be in favor of "sunshine" when it only illuminates that with which you agree. Nay?
By the way, did anyone notice that there seems to be a horse onboard the Mavi Marmara?
Marla,
No surprise that an obvious paintgun is totally 1984'd out of reality along with it.
While absolutely anything is possible, I'd like to suggest that you are almost certainly seeing something else entirely, like a weapon with a night vision scope attached to it. The raids were, after all, at night. NV and IR scopes are big and clunky.
By the way, did anyone notice that there seems to be a horse onboard the Mavi Marmara?
If fuel is in short supply in Gaza, do they use horses as motive power? Hmmmm, apparently they do:http://www.monstersandcritics.com/news/middleeast/features/article_15553...
Not only cars are expensive, he explains, so are donkeys, or horses, which have become an increasingly omnipresent part of Gaza's street scenery, and whose owners make a livelihood out of transporting goods from vegetables to scrap.
A donkey that would cost 500 dollars is now sold for 800 and a horse costs about 1,000 dollars.
Just the facts, ma'am.
Suggest away. If so, they better check their selection of caliber for its stopping effects (or lack thereof). Two non-lethal shots (at least one head shot) later and I'm doubting that's 5.56mm. You need only watch the video.
You can see weapon discharges in the vid you posted? wow.
Take a look at the original. You can see the paintball gun being used to shoot two individuals, who walk away from it. It's not subtle. Unless you have an agenda.
Take a look at the original.
Looking for the original, not finding it. Do you mean the clip you originally posted?
Unless you have an agenda.
Ah, innuendo; so promisingly useful, yet so pathetic.
Edit: followed link, watched entire full-motion clip. It's much clearer in the full-motion vid, and the pictures you cite appear to not be NV equipment as I have asserted elsewhere in this post but rather might actually be paintball guns. ABC news Australia is now reporting the attackers were armed with paintball guns. I am now stuck trying to figure out how 19 people got killed by IDF attackers armed only with paintball guns. I note the article I link doesn't say "only" with paintball guns. I still don't see any actual discharges, only apparent reactions to them.
http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2010/06/01/2915586.htm?section=world
That video you linked to is great... "It's easy to miss something you're not looking for."
My problem is that you've gone to a basketball game and actively sought out a "horse" in order to distract from the game.
Bang! Right on target.
If you want to discuss the poster "Shylock", address him directly. Don't talk to me about him and use him as an argument. What's ridiculous. I'm not going round and round with you. I know enough about int'l law and politics to know this action violated both rules of the road. Now, it's just a matter of who pays. This will probably take bibi down.
Meanwhile, the ISRAELIS have shown the press all the humanitarian aid about the ship. It is exactly that, humanitarian aid. Not even the Israeli's have taken your highly unusual horse, mule, whatever argument.
The Israeli's are looking for any argument they can get. YET, this is not one. Perhaps like I said, you don't travel the world much and don't realize the value of livestock, a horse or otherwise. People walk their food around because it is cheaper than butchering it and refrigerating it for a long journey.
I still think this is one big ruse and you're going to reveal the fact shortly.
"What else can we call it when someone with "Shylock" as the root of there username accuses others of being antisemitic- and does so apparently without even catching the scent of irony therein?"
Marla, you are being devious, and that reflects poorly on you. I have used a single profanity, and exactly NO ad hominem/feminam in all my posts at Zero Hedge. Are you deliberately overlooking the obvious fact that name calling and absurd circular arguments come almost exclusively from your admirers, and unspecified likudnik wannabes?
Btw, you say you appreciate satire, I would expect then from you a laugh about my username.
Which Horse Marla ?
What you see ( with the help of IDF provided film- from your religious friends) is a Camel with its saddle, nobody on top, afraid of the firing noise and gone wild, but in your wildest dreams you created a Turkish Marine Cavalry( by the way i don't think the armies in the world has marine cavalry-horses don't dive/swim-but it doesn't matter for you-you did your investigation) attacking IDF and you make this a big news.
Probably they brought a camel on board to carry goods for locations difficult to reach.
"I am also taken by the fact that somewhere it apparently became important for authors discussing news to have a passion"
no, compassion. News authors have always had that requirement
dup.
dup
the only thing I have to say about this is that anybody, anywhere, attacking Special Forces soldiers engaged on a mission should reasonably expect that death is a distinct possibility.
whatever else happened I'm pretty sure the soldiers weren't wandering through cabins popping people who weren't involved in trying to hurt them.
wandering through cabins popping people who weren't involved in trying to hurt them.
Don't be so sure.
lol Marla, love your work :)
Ok guys, you keep whining about the innocent people that got shot dead in international waters yada yada yada, but haven't you heard of "pre-emptive strikes", "collateral damage" etc etc? Can you abstract? Surprised that you're surprised.
<In ur Security Council, stealing ur Resolutions>
Unreal.
You rock Marla...the I still have to watch it several more times...the amazing counter assault by the turkish cavalry may haunt me the rest of today.
Marla with all due respect, no self respecting weapons analyst would give a definitive call on the manufacture, type and nomenclature of said weapon based on the quality of this image.
Skippy...BTW did the IDF boys use aussie passports again and if the film was in colour...wearing ugly shirts?
I thought the whole thing was hilarious satire, including the positive identification of the paint gun. But, after reading some comments, I'm not sure.
my god, people, it's night vision equipment !!!!!! What the hell is wrong with you all?
http://www.opticsplanet.net/riflescopenight.html
I'm not calling all that. I'm calling it a paintgun. (Watching two people shot with it feeds part of my analysis).
There were Freaking Americans aboard this ship.
Count me as totally surprised..still!
This is an epic event that will dominate the news cycle for a while. If NATO member Turkey sends a military escort with the next ship, this is a full-on global event.
There were Freaking Americans aboard this ship.
Fraud-e Honest question. How old are you? Freaking Americans are no impediment to freaking israelis intent on killing them.
Monday was Memorial Day. USS Liberty BBC Video Dead In The Water
Then there's this.
9-11 Attacks: The Five Dancing Israelis Arrested on 9-11
Marla used an argumentum (reductio) ad absurdum [(Latin, Reduction to absurdity.) In logic, a method employed to disprove an argument by illustrating how it leads to an absurd consequence] to illustrate the problems of argumentations in an emotionally overcharged discouse quite slyly.
I do it all the time too, and not once have made new friends with it either.
Alas, whilst I don't support Israel's settlement policies and strongly support a just peace process, I cannot condone the violence that was clearly started by the passengers on this particular vessel.
So, there!
Also, I love Israeli falafel. With beets! So delish!
Though I agree a successful peace process would be nice...it is a pipe dream. You cannot negotiate away 1000's of years of hatred. The only way for this to end is to step out of the way and let them throw down. Perhaps if they kill enough of each other they will tire of fighting.
Ja, well...ummm.... I really don't think I can subscribe much to your view, I'm afraid.
Try this for seize:
http://israelblog.com/
Nice blog...how exactly does that address my point of there will not be peace until they slug it out?
http://www.haaretz.com/news/diplomacy-defense/idf-kills-2-palestinian-mi...
looks like the status quo continues...best for the rest of the world to get out of the way. i think Israel can handle itself.
It's an Israeli blog dedicated to the peace process.
You believe in "slugging it out", I do not.
Boarding a ship on the high seas with out the ships Captains permission, has been an act of violence since time immortal. If it is ok for the IDF to break any law it chooses too, only by the statement, that it feared its intent....where the fk does that leave us....ad absurdum indeed.
Skippy...A posse ad esse non valet consequentia...
right you are, and obviously
(oh, dear, why am I at long last defending the IDF?...) umm... The Captain was neither using potentially deadly force, nor was he shot and killed, right?
Naturally, I don't know how many violent demonstrations you have frequented. For me, let's just say that I lived in West Berlin in the day.
Allow me to state, that if you do bad things, bad things might happen.
But, please let's agree, that we should not conflate two issues - whether the IDF's boarding was timely, planned, legal, well placed, well thought out etcetera - and whether trying to maim or kill a person that carries a holstered gun and not expecting harm to oneself is a particular wise decision.
Are you with me on that, that we are looking at two separate issues?
Firstly you are projecting. I never inferred you were defending the IDF (knee jerk?) only that by your reasoning " I cannot condone the violence that was clearly started by the passengers on this particular vessel" and "that if you do bad things, bad things might happen" in your later response this is a personal observation and not applicable to the legal and moral ethics of the high seas. The act of boarding outside ones territorial water is an act of piracy, violence etc. A short clip in black and white is not a qualified piece of evidence to which one could extrapolate the conclusion of which you so easily formulate.
Secondly your statement "Naturally, I don't know how many violent demonstrations you have frequented". I used to be the one sliding down the rope from a helo, this is my AO and understand it well, so bad intel is one of my pet peeves.
Lastly I never besmirched your good person, so no need to get stroppy, attack the argument not the person.
I was not implying you inferred that I was defending the IDF. Hence, I didn't project anything onto you.
I'm sorry you perceived this differently.
Bad intel, for sure. And a tragedy and disaster on so very many levels.
And tragic loss of lives.
One nitpick: nation states, by definition, cannot commit acts of piracy.
If you think it was an act of war, then call it that.
The Balfour Declaration of 1917 and the British Mandate for Palestine truly were a ad-hoc approach to placate Walter Rothschild, 2nd Baron Rothschild. Personaly I just wish this held true throught the test of time: it being clearly understood that nothing should be done which might prejudice the civil and religious rights of existing non-Jewish communities in Palestine, or the rights and political status enjoyed by Jews in any other country.
I retract my piracy statement even with the on going litigation/debate with regards to the state of its sovereignty, as piracy is described under (UNCLOS).
The horse is out of the gate now....sigh.
I am really glad SOMEONE finally got that reference. (Some of) my faith is restored.
“The IDF are pirates-“
No, they peacefully boarded several other ships after they refused to go through customs. No one was killed on any of the other ships because they did not attack them and try to beat them to death.
Just try bypassing customs at any other country, the US for example and see what happens. To criticize the IDF here is crass double standards.
“they deserve the death penalty for their cold-blooded murder”
The thugs who beat a man on the ground with metal rods, the thugs who threw a man of the deck of the boat deserved to be shot. Actually I’m amazed it took them so long to fire.
“Go away with this nonsense...Ms Foil.”
You may prefer to read something a little more up your street. The Insidious Jew or Mein Kampf for example.
“The current Israeli government act like animals”
No actually they act with remarkable constraint. I doubt there are many countries in the world that would tolerate such aggression against them day in day out. Navies will regularly intercept ships in international waters if they are suspicious. Normally it results in a quick interview and a quick ship inspection and you’re on your way.
I know full well that if Royal Marines boarded a ship and they were assaulted like that they would have opened fire, probably a lot sooner than the Israelis did.
Kingbingo - Why hide behind the Union Jack?
Just try bypassing customs at any other country - Just try making a customs stop 80 miles out to sea in international waters you idiot.
The IOF had no right to board the ship. The crew has every right to defend their ship from an illegal seizure in international waters and they were gunned down in what amouints to murder for their efforts.
What do you know about Royal Marines, besides nothing?
why hide behind the union jack? What does that mean? Perhaps you could explain :-)
You're the one hiding. Why don't you explain?
you said he was hiding behind the union jack. If you cant be man enough to spell out what you mean, then you are clearly a coward.
Come on, free speech is allowed on ZH. Say what you mean.
"No, they peacefully boarded several other ships after they refused to go through customs."
That's not true, that they were boarded for not going through customs. They didn't board either. They committed a crime in international waters against a Turkish vessel. It's black and white. They can morally justify (who can't) but not legally.
The Americans on this ship and the 85 year old holocaust survivor probably don't share your view.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/world/middle_east/10199480.stm
Sorry ZH - don't get this post at all. Tasteless and unfunny.
Suggest all ZH readers take a look at the following video (shot yesterday) by (former) ambassador craig murray who was the head of the British foreign office maritime section and thus someone well qualified to speak on this subject of "illegal war."
http://www.craigmurray.org.uk/
Marla; you are making an absolute bloody fool of yourself. You really are quite shameless in this and display incredible, and revealing, bias. It is as if you have lost all objectivity. The term "intellectual dishonesty" does not even begin to describe your cynically orwellan debating logic. I hope Tyler Durden will remove you forthwith. You have become a utter disgrace to the ZH community. Plain and simple.
Put aside the clever red herring of a special forces assault groups carrying paint ball guns. They could have been tasers or batons. The fact that their sidearms were holstered and automatic weapons were slung by their sides is irrelevant (as you well know). They were accessible in an instant and were used. They assaulted a civilian ship in international waters and were confronted by incredibly brave passengers who armed themselves with poles and other loose objects visible on the video. Up to 19 people (I have seen numbers ranging from 9-19) were killed and 50 were wounded. They were deliberately shot to death with bullets not "accidentally" by paint projectiles. Your grubby attempts to blame the victims and exonerate the murderers is as revolting as it is predictable.
If the israeli "soldiers" (who seem to specialize in killing unarmed civilians, usually children) came clutching roses (or copies of the koran, or rubber ducks) instead of paintball guns, but immediately resorted to lethal force to murder 19 civilians would you change your stance?
What if the palestinians who assaulted the achille lauro carried paint ball guns but had AK's slung by their sides and holstered pistols, but went on to slaughter 19 brave passengers who charged them with batons, clubs, cutlery etc. Would you say that the 19 murdered passengers were culpable and that the PLO should be exonerated?
No, I didn't think so!
disclosure; my ex-wife is jewish so please no attempts to demean my logic through your predictably reflex skunk-spray defense.
well no wonder she is your "ex" wife. I bet she couldnt wait to get away :-)
Post removed by author
We can only imagine all the satirical jokes Marla Singer would be making if it was 9+ Israelis who had been killed. But Miss Singer is very very fair on this issue. Why, for example, I happen to know she was very busy with the markets the day this photo was taken and just didn't have time to share with ZH readers. http://andrewsullivan.theatlantic.com/the_daily_dish/2010/05/who-were-th...
(Is that good satire Marla???)
Boy you are really hung up on that photo - you've posted the link four times now.
Everyone who cares to look at it has seen it now, ok? We've noticed it, we've looked, we've absorbed the incredible information provided by it that apparently it sometimes happens that a group of young jewish men are rude to - even TAUNT! - palestinian women. The horror!
I think this comment says more about you than about me, actually.
I am still trying to convince myself that this entire article and the comments following up are one enormous ruse.
After all, I come here for good judgment as well as facts.
Well, Singer is right about one thing.... a picture is worth a thousand words.
http://andrewsullivan.theatlantic.com/the_daily_dish/2010/05/who-were-th...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vUlbIR3-AGU
So that's the moral equivalent of suicide bombers?
Moral of the story: If you lob tear gas onto and then repel down on a foreign flagged vessel while wielding weapons you should fully expect to encounter violence.
Comparing this to police in the United States? really? That's like saying a Canadian SWAT team repels through my upstairs bedroom window with a .45 on his side but a wiffle ball bat in hand and but I provoked the violence when I beat him over the head with bedside lamp. The assholes broke into my house and threatened violence
Yep and the most OBVIOUS logic that seems to be missing with some of the others. When people don't see the banana in a quart jar of water, you have to make an assumption.
They {Marla et.al.} don't believe that goy laws apply. They can do whatever they feel like and then lie their asses off after the fact.
This will continue until there is a critical mass of pissed-off people.
With the IOF actions yesterday and the zealot comments on threads like this, they have pushed another huge slice of humanity into the seriously pissed-off segment.
Are they bound and determined to self-destruct? Is this history repeating? over and over again?
I understand that the people here at ZH are not journalists. That's OK. But don't pretend to be one. Taking a still frame from a IDF vid does not constitute "exclusive analysis". Grow up Marla.
there is something deliciously ironic about "George the baby" telling Marla to grow up :-)
I know, I felt a little silly writing it. I thought I would get away with it, but no.
Show me another organization that discovered the horse first.
Which Horse Marla ?
What you see ( with the help of IDF provided film- from your religious friends) is a Camel with its saddle, nobody on top, afraid of the firing noise and gone wild, but in your wildest dreams you created a Turkish Marine Cavalry( by the way i don't think the armies in the world has marine cavalry-horses don't dive/swim-but it doesn't matter for you-you did your investigation) attacking IDF and you make this a big news.
Probably they brought a camel on board to carry goods for locations difficult to reach.
“Kingbingo - Why hide behind the Union Jack?”
I have no idea what you mean by that. I’m not particularly worried because I’m pretty sure you don’t.
“Just try making a customs stop 80 miles out to sea in international waters you idiot.”
Several points here:
1) There is no question of where the ship was headed. It was clearly intending to sail straight into their waters, the whole point about it being in international water at the time is a total cop out. Weasel words from weasel men looking for a technicality. No one has ever disputed that it had zero intention to turn around.
2) Navies regularly board ships in international waters.
3) When roping onto a ship your extremely exposed (as we have seen), its good drills to do it at night or early dawn. If you waited a few more hours until full light and them being 30 miles closer you would have had them even more exposed.
“The IOF had no right to board the ship. The crew has every right to defend their ship from an illegal seizure in international waters and they were gunned down in what amouints to murder for their efforts.”
Gunned down? Like Einstein said the difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has limits. I think your proof of that. You can see with your own eyes what happened. Yet your preferring to go by the fantasy version of events. These peace loving activists where beating the men with guns with metal bars, clearly trying to kill or maim them. Israel was only trying to seize the ship because they refused to go through the proper channels. All legitimate aid would have been delivered as it always is. The IDF did not arrive and start machine gunning. Indeed their restraint is incredible. If you don’t believe me get a bunch of mates with metal rods and start beating on a bunch of guys in uniforms with guns. See how far you get.
The simple fact is you just want to see dead Jews and Israel destroyed, your excuse anything that is anti-Jew and anti Israel.
“What do you know about Royal Marines, besides nothing?”
True, I’ve not served with them myself. I live in a very naval town in England and several mates are marines. All of them make me sound like a bedwetting liberal on this issue.
Regularly? No. Tell me the last time a NATO country was raided by a non-NATO country at sea. The rest of your logic is as flawed as that "fact".
Moreover, there were many non-violent options available including hobbling the prop and pulling it to harbor. So easy. Not only was their chosen tactic an obvious crime and violation of well established int'l norms, but it was senseless and STUPID (obviously) which raises more questions about the judgement of the people running the country.
You watch the fallout and perhaps you'll believe my conclusions. This was the moment that the Likud crossed the tipping point with the world. Americans were on board, Swedes, Irish, Europeans, and an 85 year old holocaust survivor. The spin simply will not work.
It is legal, by the way, to use any force necessary to repel a raid on the high seas without the permission of the captain. That captain and those passengers had the legal right to use any force. All Americans instantly recognize the general right to self defense.
Moreover, I think you're going to see evidence soon of bullets fired onto the ship before it was boarded. If so, things will degenerate even further.
“Regularly? No. Tell me the last time a NATO country was raided by a non-NATO country at sea. The rest of your logic is as flawed as that "fact".”
What has NATO got to do with it, your just worming around trying to find a rod to beat them with now.
Yes regularly. I know the Royal navy has one or two boats on full time patrol in international waters near Somalia.
A few years ago Canada boarded several Spanish fishing boats in international waters and turned them around because they were approaching Canadian fishing waters.
I myself have almost been boarded. On a small boat in the English Channel. A RIB pulled alongside with a bunch of marines onboard. We welcomed the lads onboard offering them a drink, which they refused. We had a short chat and they disappeared. What me and my crewmates didn’t do was start attacking them with metal bars. Because none of use were morons looking for a confrontation.
“Moreover, there were many non-violent options available including hobbling the prop and pulling it to harbor.”
They were trying to use non-lethal methods. They had already boarded five other ships, without incident.
“Not only was their chosen tactic an obvious crime and violation of well established int'l norms”
BS
“but it was senseless and STUPID”
What is stupid is assaulting armed men and trying to bludgeon them to death and throw them overboard. They forced them to fire, which is of course precisesly what they wanted to happen, they wanted to be martyred.
“You watch the fallout and perhaps you'll believe my conclusions.”
I agree, this was a well plan propaganda coup, they forced the Israelis to violence, they won.
“This was the moment that the Likud crossed the tipping point with the world. Americans were on board, Swedes, Irish, Europeans, and an 85 year old holocaust survivor.”
Bambi, Nelson Mandela and the Queen could have been onboard. Doesn’t change the facts that they boarded five ships perfectly peacefully, and on the 6th they were set upon by men desperate to bludgeon them to death and throw them overboard.
“The spin simply will not work.”
Precisely the point, no spin is even necessary; everyone can watch that video with their own eyes. Those peace loving activists forced those guys to fire or be killed.
“It is legal, by the way, to use any force necessary to repel a raid on the high seas without the permission of the captain.”
Who’s law?? Regardless of what hand wringing liberals say you and a bunch of your mates bludgeon armed soldiers and throwing them overboard is unbelievably stupid. What do you expect them to do.
“That captain and those passengers had the legal right to use any force.”
So why did nothing happen on the other five ships?
“All Americans instantly recognize the general right to self defense.”
Yes, which is why they had no choice but to fire live ammo.
“Moreover, I think you're going to see evidence soon of bullets fired onto the ship before it was boarded. If so, things will degenerate even further. “
If it was truly their intention just to attack and murder why not just torpedo the ship. Its not like Israeli lacks weapons, the US sells them plenty.
You don't know the law of the sea and thus our discussions end. That ship was flying a Turkish flag. That means everything in the ocean, as you don't know. It's the privileges of citizenship.
If countries flying a foreign flag boarded an American ship in international waters HELL would be paid. Navel power and the rights that flow from it have organized the world for centuries.
How about you tell me the last time a NATO country flagged ship participated in blockade running against one of their allies?
Now, having been a Brownshoe I was never directly involved in any boarding episodes; shit-hot flyboys don't go over the rails. That said, most often ships attempting to run a blockade are boarded outside of the controlled area. But as the commenter observed you Jooooooooooo! haters want to see Israel and Israelis injured in any way possible, and will look to exploit any instance for it's maximum propaganda value.
Look Marla - it's Riverdance!
http://www.artsalive.ca/upload/dan/Articles_Riverdance_Troupe_.jpg
http://www.irintech.com/x1/images/jean/thefallingmanxy4.jpg
I mean hahahaaa ha haaaaaaaaaaaaaa - how funny is that! Oh my aching sides.
So Marla's redpill tastes like a bluepill after all.
If that does not screw up Cognitive Dissonance's mind, nothing else will.
“Marla; you are making an absolute bloody fool of yourself. You really are quite shameless in this and display incredible, and revealing, bias.”
You mean she doesn’t leap to condemn Israel at any excuse.
“The fact that their sidearms were holstered and automatic weapons were slung by their sides is irrelevant (as you well know). They were accessible in an instant and were used.”
Thank god they had those weapons. Or they would have been beaten to death and slung overboard.
“They assaulted a civilian ship in international waters and were confronted by incredibly brave passengers who armed themselves with poles and other loose objects visible on the video.”
They were confronted by incredibly stupid activists who were going out of their way to provoke a fight and started attacking the soldiers the moment they landed. If the soldiers where as gun ho as you claim why did it take them so long to fire?
“Up to 19 people (I have seen numbers ranging from 9-19) were killed and 50 were wounded. They were deliberately shot to death with bullets”
That’s what guns are for. Killing people with bullets. Unfortunately, if your watching a mate getting beaten to death with metal polls while some f***** was running screaming at you with an axe while another mate got slung off the side of the boat you have to use those guns.
“If the israeli "soldiers" (who seem to specialize in killing unarmed civilians, usually children)”
Listen to yourself, you make it sound as if the IDF spend all day looking for Arab children to shoot in the face. Your so warped and twisted you can’t see straight.
“What if the palestinians who assaulted the achille lauro carried paint ball guns “
But they did’nt did they. They went there to murder.
The IDF as you well know would not have used their live ammo unless they had to that’s why they only used non-lethal force until their attackers had given them no choice.
Paintball guns have gotten folks into trouble right here in the good old USofA. Israel shoulda stuck to those places up in the Pocono's... Oh, wait, bad idea there too since 1-800-Why-Rent has become the joke of an age...
READY and FORWARD !!
Perhaps it is time for Israel to recall everything that went into that motto.... since both its original users and the State of Israel had to earn it the hard way.
Marla,
Too soon, too soon. I think your timing is a bit off, much like Johnny Carson and his Lincoln joke.
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/TooSoon
We can start a new catagory for you.
I think it would be better if you pulled this thread and .........
post maybe this afternoon?
Well that was fun. Marla has boarded an Israeli themed debate and laid waste to all flunkies like Bruce Lee dropping hapless opponents in a warehouse scene. Even Chumba laid low. I defy you to find a similar example anywhere else on the Internet. No rope, paint or machine guns in her SEAL-suit just the poison pen. See, ink can be lethal force.
However, that beast in the video looks like a lama to me, the main ingrediant in Lama Kabobs and Lama Ghanaoush. Occam's razor and all that.
Marla has boarded an Israeli themed debate and laid waste to all flunkies like Bruce Lee dropping hapless opponents in a warehouse scene.
Dream on Mercury. I think you need to polish up your reading glasses.
Marla's mocking the dead.
I think the moral of this story is clear:
Dont bring a paintgun when getting ambushed by a bunch of knife and lead-pipe wielding whackos pretending to be peaceful protestors.
And, yes, the animal on the boat was FOOD. If you travel a bit, you'll see meat doesn't always come with cellophane packaging. I know this article was a large satire and ruse. It had to be.
The biggest problem and disappointment with Zero Hedge are the many virulent anti-Semitic, anti-Israel nutjobs that come out like cockroaches at the drop of a hat.
Coldcall has it right; Israel has a right to self defense. This flotilla is nothing more than terror supporting propaganda. The loss of life is regrettable; however, it seems that the flotilla folks were interested only in confrontation and they bear responsibility for the consequences of their foolish and morally repugnant actions.
Stop supporting death cult terrorists folks; what is wrong with you ??
well i like the openess of this site, even with all the racists. It gives us a chance to see what folks really think. problem is many of them are cowards and use wobbly language to say what they mean.
I love this one: "israeli types" :-)
Yes, when you turn on the light, the cockroaches blink in surprise, mutter about 'zionists' and 'AIPAC', then go back to tracking filth across the clean, shiny ZH kitchen floor.
I know, I know - there's nothing more anti-semitic than finding a video satire of 9 people dying unamusing.
How come no guffaws and recs for my Riverdance pastiche?
http://www.irintech.com/x1/images/jean/thefallingmanxy4.jpg
Because it's moronic.
No it's not - it's cutting edge satire. You are offended by it because you are not as intelligent as I am. Ask Marla.
You're confused Cap. Israel is the terrorist death cult.
Plus anti-semitism has been made a meaningless term via misappropriation by hacks like you.
Plus, why don't you say anti-jew, which is what you mean isn't it?
Code Pink, Gaza chapter, gets what they deserve. For those of you salivating over finally getting YOUR chance to kill the jews and remove Israel from the face of the earth, be warned. We might take a few of you fuckers with us:) Have a nice day.
I am located in Memphis, TN. Come on over and say that to my face sick piece of shit troll. No balls I am sure.
It's possible you misunderstood what I said. But if you didn't, and you believe it's open season on jew killing, you are mistaken.
If you were a real commenter and not a pop up troll you would already know the answer to that question.. So, the troll stamp sticks. Especially since I have done my fair share of sending rounds down range and I do not believe it is open lead, or jacketed season on anyone.. Trolls included.. lucky for you you caught me in a more empathetic state. So once you discover what being an actual Fight Club member is all about then we'll engage in the only arena that really matters. The arena of ideas. Since you have chosen to leave that field vacant of your presence I suggest you get on back to whatever tile walled & floored cubicle you occupy in whichever public park you choose to do business and resume your groveling for paper by the minute.
However, since you obviously believe it is open lead season you in fact pose a direct threat to yourself or others. It is time you got 5150'd and spent 72 hours under clinical observation you sick POS.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L1swnkVPZX0
- JAFO
What kills me is none of the rabid newly entosteroned gun advocates can actually identify the weapon in question.
Google the TAVOR
We shouldnt make political out of best financal web on the net.I bealive that guy with the paintball gun is someone from Glodman trying to pumpthe gold for a better sell.
There was real attack on the solders on the boat and can be clearly seen on Tv however if the boats were in international waters than the assault on the ship might not be justified fully. However every country has a right of selfdefince and nobody attac anyone at home, what 1000 people on a boats in Military zone are trying to push I dont understand.
You guys going to prattle on about the disease anti-semitism or you going to talk about the facts of these murders or criminal homicides by Israeli forces?
This morning, I've read Israeli newspapers and it's roundly negative. The most positive spin I've heard is by top cabinet officials and this blog!
Come on, gentlemen, stick to the facts. This is UGLY and the fallout will be enormous. This is not just another event. Our NATO ally is sending more ships, with military escorts.
Nobel laureates and an American diplomat were on board. This is going no where but downhill. You're either or the right or the wrong side of history. Today, Ive seen a lot of people shockingly on the wrong side. I don't care about who supports whom. I get that. I do care about people showing judgment about the facts they read. That's why I value this blog.
Why are you so emotionally invested in this topic?
When all is said and done (an oxy-moron in this case) nothing will be settled and no opinions will be changed.
I think you miss the point.
Hutu wiped out Tutsi (or was it the other way around) in some dark corner of the world. Jew goons shoot Palestinian children in another dark corner of the world. None of it is pleasant to think about, but so what? Bad things happen in dark corners.
What bothers me is that my money supports one set of goons in one of the dark corners. Actually, as I think about it, the matter is more complicated. What bothers me is not that Jews have captured the foreign policy of the political entity in Washington. It doesn't even bother me that Hillary Clinton, that pathetic whore (and all the other prostitutes in Washington) do so willingly the bidding of AIPAC. What sends me into a rage is us, my own people and me, that we have let ourselves become so confused and weak that an ugly and brutal tribe has gained serious power over us. The problem at root is not one of morality but of manhood.
so what the beef? Or should i say pork?
an ugly and brutal tribe? Who are they? I'm curious now.
They are that tribe that keeps beating up on the other tribe.
Great post. Part of the problem is that la hente can not talk the talk. The semantics have been taken away from them. Any questioning is turned into 'Why do you hate Jews?'
Somebody asked the other day - Why did the Nazis turn on the Jews? What was their rational? And all these replies came back accusing the poster of blaming Jews for their fate.
Well in the real world that I live in, most people are more or less responsible for their fate. Aren't they?
And before ColdCall and ITG, et.al crap their collective pants, let me say that I have these conversations with Jews I know and they more or less agree with me.
American foreign policy has been perverted to soly service Israeli ends. That's what Hillary does. That's what Obama does. That's what 'W' did.
The last time something like this happened, the regular Jew got thrown under the bus when TSHTF.
Is that what you all want to see again? What about a little empathy for what you've done to the Palestinians? That would make a good start.
I tink that's why Marla'a mocking the dead. If she acknowledges their humanity, the contradictions threaten her identity-self.
leaving aside the hyperbole:
From my short time on ZH, i have seen no set boundaries over subject matter, whether satire of tragic events, or not. But you now are opining that Marla's satire is somehow beyond the pale. Who are you to lay down the limits of satire? Your perspective on this resembles the same sort of attitude which made Muslims rampage, kill others and eachother, over a stupid Danish cartoon depiction of Allah.
Are you always so sensitive? I dont think so; your posts on these threads demonstrate clearly that your senstivity is highly selective to subject matter.
So cut the crap you lying piece of shit :-)
Marla can say what she wants.
no kidding genius
Who are you to lay down the limits of satire?
You are inconsistent dumb ass.
A brazilian, Iara Lee, was in one of the vessels:
http://gazetaweb.globo.com/v2/noticias/texto_completo.php?c=206114
Now it's personal! I suggest president Lula declares war on Israel today...
The guy in front of the TAVOR, paintball gun confusion weapon, goes down shot in the stomach.
Here's an American Jewish professor really giving it to Israel in the chops. Fight club style
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eB_CKL5h2_8
For want of ham they miss the mark, 2 nations, without pork.
The UN maintains a half a dozen camps there - why can't these humanitarian efforts be coordinated through the UN channels?
yes yes. Call in the 7 nation army!
Listen World- new rules Pummel a Jew, Stab a Jew, Hit a Jew over the head -Your DEAD !
More hubris. I don't believe you.
Oh Marla! You are just so pithy. Obviously "too cool for the room" is an understatement when describing your limitless acerbic wit. I am sure the confused,malnourished, uneducated,unclothed,despised and neglected children of that little amusement park we call Gaza would just laugh and laugh and laugh at your wry combination of university wordplay and knowledge of paint balls. Yours is a wondrous world we "eaters" could only imagine. There is one small drawback to your refined platitude however. That is the nagging feeling that your team are the bad guys. That all along the tin foilers may have been right. That your iron clad conviction that your team is smarter than everyone else and would never needlessly harm innocents may be wrong. You see Marla, people like you will create satire to mask the guilt they feel for supporting the bad guys. No objective viewpoint is needed when comedy can be used to deflect any ill feeling or questions of morality. Good luck.
Very well put, GoldmanBaggins.
You know, you should be writing for some trashy "progressive" platform like the Granuiad. Lots of hacks get paid good coin to write this type of intellectually dishonest drivel re Gaza; no reason you should be missing out :-)
If you think my comments were progressive you should pick up a history book.
fascist little ditties do great business at the "progressive" Granuiad. Notice the quotes :-)
Boy she really got under your skin, didn't she?
I'm not good at sarcasm/humor/irony/whatever-you-call-it, but this thread really shows how effective it is. Ridicule just drives the other side nuts.
Under my skin is not a place someone like Marla would be comfortable.
You are doubly right, you are not good at whatever-you-call it.
I don't support anyone here. I don't find either side particularly appealing. It is my failure to shout for one particular side until hoarse that has you riled. Step back and consider what that means for a news site. "Shut up unless you're on the 'right' side." Shame on you. Seriously. Take it to Clusterstock.
Turkish Calvary - brilliant observation.
If not in a humorous state, then take time to educate:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-SbjAanvUqs
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eB_CKL5h2_8
Half the posters here obviously didn't notice the "peace activists" knocking ten tins of condensed shite out of the troops, before they opened fire.
Funny thing that selective myopia
So let's get this straight:
1. Gaza is regularly lobbing ordinance into Israeli towns with the express intent of killing Israelis
2. A naval blockade is in place to prevent such ordinance getting in.
3. Openly Hammas supporting organisation with usual collection of western bleeding hearts on board openly state they will break naval blockade or be martyred trying.
4. Israel as well as Egypt offer on many occasions to dock ships and transfer goods to Gaza.
5. Protesters refuse as delivering the goods here is obviously not their main agenda.
6. Israeli troops board all 6 ships as is their right to do so under international law when a naval blockade is in place.
7. Five of the boarding’s take place with no problem, the crew on the sixth unfortunately appears to be mentored by Casey Rybeck and set about the boarding party with iron bars, sledgehammers, knifes and molotov cocktails.
8. In seeing their comrades beaten, stabbed and flung off the decks, the troops realise that if they want to see their families again they might need to engage with a bit more than a paintball gun and return fire with the pistols they are carrying. Or if you were listening to the liberal media this morning - "machine gun crowds of women and children".
Yep I'm outraged, how dare they !
And what's more, the only ship that resists is the one with the cameras on board.
Strange that.
Gaza should be a completely independent State now (independent even from the West Bank), the naval blockade should be completely removed, and the border with Egypt should be completely open.
It's the minimum of justice that the people of Gaza deserve.
Note: being a "peace activist" don't mean being a impassive masochist who "gives the other face". They had the right to defend themselves against the israeli military takeover of their vessels on international waters.
“Gaza should be a completely independent State now (independent even from the West Bank), the naval blockade should be completely removed, and the border with Egypt should be completely open.”
Egypt have been offered that option for years. They are not interested. Nor does Jordan want to take the Palestinian areas of the west bank.
But your right, the 3 state solution is the only viable and sensible option. But the US clings to the policy of the 2 state solution.
The middle east has vast amounts of land, any of them could easily absorb the small Gaza population, they all refuse. Its far more useful to maintain the current situation as hatred of Israel is the only thing Arabs agree on. If there was no Israel they would have nothing to distract their own populations from rank corruption.
In case you hadn't noticed, the Egyptians are the ones that have chosen to vigorously protect their border crossing with Gaza. So take that up with them.
Regarding the blockade? When Hamas decides to stop conducting assymetrical warfare against Israel, pressures their terrorist paramilitary forces to release kidnapped Israelis, and declares an end to the violent animosity with Israel then I'm sure the blockade can be ended quickly.
And when they form a legitimate, viable, government then they can exist as a separate entity.
But as long as theor government is uncer the control of a terorist organization whose expressed purpose is to wipe Israel off the face of the earth, well, I can see why the Israelis take a dim view of that arrangement...
Marla ;
You should feel sorry for the innocent dead people and for their families.
And you should not write any article other than Music here.
Sure, maybe we just allow Marla topics like knitting, and babies also?
But seriously, why are you sure all of the dead are "innocent"?
If i attack you with a knife and you end up shooting me, am i innocent?
If i come to your house and attack you, you defend yourself with a stick or something and i shoot you( sorry first i shoot with paint ball-this part is for Marla to pick up and write an article about it- and more interestingly i dont use tear gas or plastic bullets to neutralize you- hi Marla are you There ?) and kill you, you are innocent for me, crystall clear.
Anybody kills a man is guilty,nobody can take life other than god.
Yeah, and stay in your kitchen.
I am Chumbawamba.
Cbaba......STFU you MCP. And you should no longer post a single thing you narrow minded POS. Those dead people put themselves in that position, so tough shit, I'm glad they're dead. A few less libtards on the planet......yahoo!
Wew! You almost had me going there. Then I saw that you were the Fascist Dictator.
You are just sick, sound just like some Israeli soldiers who get used to kill people all the time and started to enjoy killing like an evil psychopath .
The Muslims have again demonstrated their complete disdain for truth. Eff the whole effin' lot of them. $Billions in aid have been poured into Gaza and the West Bank by America and Europe, and what have those people done with the money? Not improved their lives one bit, but escalated their cowardly war against Israel. They had their chance, the blew it, let'em rot.
GO IDF!!
Jews have their own fancy word for the type of bigoted hatred you're exhibiting here.
It's the same bigotry that fuels Israeli war crimes.
Good for you!
I am Chumbawamba.
Sometimes I just like to forget my heritage of 3000+ years of being oppressed, enslaved, and the victim of various genocides. As one of the last 20 million Jews left on the planet, is it not too much to ask to come to a high end financial web site and just have a discussion about stocks, bonds, commodities and currencies?
Do I have to read about the Israeli Army stupidly boarding some stupid boat filled with stupid protestors trying to break a stupid naval blockade. And then read about the predicatable explosion of anti-Israeli and anti-Semetic feelings.
Why don't you spend your time worrying about how long it will take Iran to hand off a nuke to Al Queda so they can blow up New York or Moscow? Tha'ts what I'm worried about. Or how long it will be before before North Korea over runs South Korea.
Or how many political or religious prisoners are tortured and killed per week in such humanitarian countries like Turkey, Iran, Egypt? It's a cruel world and I think it's best to think about all of it, not just little parts.
You have nothing to do with Israel. The secular opression of the jews have nothing to do with Israel. Just because you are a jew, you don't need to have any loyalty to a State that was founded by criminals wich collaborated with the Nazis.
"If I knew that it was possible to save all the children of Germany by transporting them to England, and only half by transferring them to the Land of Israel, I would choose the latter, for before us lies not only the numbers of these children but the historical reckoning of the people of Israel." (David Ben-Gurion, the "founding father" of Israel)
And you should read this about criminal Ben-Gurion:
http://www.yitchakrabin.com/Barry%20Chamish/html/ben_gurion_radiations.html
You are correct Sir!
Tell us about your background so we can decide for ourselves whether you have any moral high ground? Or are you too busy decapitating infidels and beating your wives?
Since when and why is his "background" under question - what about yours? He just pointed out an undeniable and known fact and you try to avoid dealing with it by attacking his honour? Now, that is lame!
you're being too rational. Cut it out! :-)
Sorry Mam. It's important.