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Zuckerman: "Why the Jobs Situation Is Worse Than It Looks"

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From Mort Zuckerman, originally posted in Forbes

Why the Jobs Situation Is Worse Than It Looks

The Great Recession has now earned the dubious right of being
compared to the Great Depression. In the face of the most stimulative
fiscal and monetary policies in our history, we have experienced the
loss of over 7 million jobs,
wiping out every job gained since the year 2000. From the moment the
Obama administration came into office, there have been no net increases
in full-time jobs, only in part-time jobs. This is contrary to all
previous recessions. Employers are not recalling the workers they laid
off from full-time employment.

Click here to find out more!

The real job losses are greater than the estimate of 7.5 million.
They are closer to 10.5 million, as 3 million people have stopped
looking for work. Equally troublesome is the lower labor participation
rate; some 5 million jobs have vanished from manufacturing, long
America's greatest strength. Just think: Total payrolls today amount to
131 million, but this figure is lower than it was at the beginning of
the year 2000, even though our population has grown by nearly 30

The most recent statistics are unsettling and dismaying, despite the
increase of 54,000 jobs in the May numbers. Nonagricultural full-time
employment actually fell by 142,000, on top of the 291,000 decline the
preceding month. Half of the new jobs created are in temporary help
agencies, as firms resist hiring full-time workers.

Today, over 14 million people are unemployed. We now have more idle
men and women than at any time since the Great Depression. Nearly seven
people in the labor pool compete for every job opening. Hiring
announcements have plunged to 10,248 in May, down from 59,648 in April.
Hiring is now 17 percent lower than the lowest level in the 2001-02
downturn. One fifth of all men of prime working age are not getting up
and going to work. Equally disturbing is that the number of people
unemployed for six months or longer grew 361,000 to 6.2 million,
increasing their share of the unemployed to 45.1 percent. We face the
specter that long-term unemployment is becoming structural and not just
cyclical, raising the risk that the jobless will lose their skills and
become permanently unemployable. 

Don't pay too much attention to the headline unemployment rate of 9.1
percent. It is scary enough, but it is a gloss on the reality. These
numbers do not include the millions who have stopped looking for a job
or who are working part time but would work full time if a position were
available. And they count only those people who have actively applied
for a job within the last four weeks.

Include those others and the real number is a nasty 16 percent. The
16 percent includes 8.5 million part-timers who want to work full time
(which is double the historical norm) and those who have applied for a
job within the last six months, including many of the long-term
unemployed. And this 16 percent does not take into account the
discouraged workers who have left the labor force. The fact is that the
longer duration of six months is the more relevant testing period since
the mean duration of unemployment is now 39.7 weeks, an increase from
37.1 weeks in February. 

The inescapable bottom line is an unprecedented slack in the U.S.
labor market. Labor's share of national income has fallen to the lowest
level in modern history, down to 57.5 percent in the first quarter as
compared to 59.8 percent when the so-called recovery began. This
reflects not only the 7 million fewer workers but the fact that wages
for part-time workers now average $19,000—less than half the median

Just to illustrate how insecure the labor movement is, there is
nobody on strike in the United States today, according to David
Rosenberg of wealth management firm Gluskin Sheff. Back in the 1970s, it
was common in any given month to see as many as 30,000 workers on the
picket line, and there were typically 300 work stoppages at any given
time. Last year there were a grand total of 11. There are other indirect
consequences. The number of people who have applied for permanent
disability benefits has soared. Ten years ago, 5 million people were
collecting federal disability payments; now 8 million are on the rolls,
at a cost to taxpayers of approximately $120 billion a year. The states
today owe the federal insurance fund an astonishing $90 billion to
cover unemployment benefits. 

In past recessions, the economy recovered lost jobs within 13 months,
on average, after the trough. Twenty-three months into a recovery,
employment typically increases by around 174,000 jobs monthly, compared
to 54,000 this time around. In a typical recovery, we would have had
several hundred thousand more hires per month than we are seeing
now—this despite unprecedented fiscal and monetary stimulus (including
the rescue of the automobile industry, whose collapse would likely have
lost a million jobs). Businesses do not seem to have the confidence or
the incentive to add staff but prefer to continue the deep cost-cutting
they undertook from the onset of the recession.

But hang on. Even to come up with the 54,000 new jobs, the Bureau of
Labor Statistics assumed that 206,000 jobs were created by newly formed
companies that its analysts believe—but can't prove—were, in effect,
born in May under the so-called birth/death model, which relies
primarily on historical extrapolations. Without this generous assumption
in the face of a slowing economy, the United States would have lost
jobs in May. Last year the bureau assumed that 192,000 jobs were created
through new start-ups in the comparable month, but on review most of
them eventually had to be taken out, as start-ups have been
distressingly weak given the lack of financing from their traditional
sources such as bank loans, home equity loans, and credit card lines. 

Where are we today? We have seemingly added jobs, but it is not
because hiring has increased. In February 2009 there were 4.7 million
separations—that is, jobs lost—but by March 2011 this had fallen to 3.8
million. In other words, the pace of layoffs has diminished, but that is
not the same thing as more hiring. The employment numbers look better
than they really are because of the aggressive layoffs in the early part
of this recession and the reluctance of American business to rehire
workers. In fact, the apparent improvement in job numbers has been made
up of one part extra hiring and two parts reduced firing.

Even during past recessions, American firms still hired large numbers
of workers as part of the continual cycle of replacing employees. Of
the 150 million workers or job seekers in America, about one third turn
over in a typical year, leaving their old jobs to take new ones. High
labor "churn" is characteristic of our economy, reflecting workers
moving to better jobs and higher wages and away from declining sectors.
As Stanford business professor Edward Lazear explains so clearly in the Wall Street Journal,
the increase in job growth over the past two years is attributable to a
decline in the number of layoffs, not from increased hiring. Typically,
when the labor market creates 200,000 jobs, it has been because 5
million were hired and 4.8 million were separated, not just because
there were 200,000 hires and no job losses. But when an economy has
bottomed out, it has already shed much of its excess labor, as
illustrated by the decline in layoffs—from approximately 2.5 million in
February 2009 to 1.5 million this April. In a healthy labor market like
the one that prevailed in 2006 and into 2007, American firms hired about
5.5 million workers per month. This is now down to about 4 million a
month. Quite simply, businesses have been very disciplined in their
hiring practices.

We are nowhere near the old normal. Throughout this fragile recovery,
over 90 percent of the growth in output has come from productivity
gains. But typically at this stage of the cycle, labor has already taken
over from productivity as the major contributor of growth. That is why
we generally saw nonfarm payroll gains exceeding 300,000 per month with
relative ease. This time we have recouped only 17 percent of the job
losses 23 months after the recession began, as compared to 207 percent
of the jobs lost from previous recessions (with the exception of 2001).
There is no comfort either in two leading indicators of employment, with
no growth in the workweek or in factory overtime.

Clearly, the Great American Job Machine is breaking down, and
roadside assistance is not on the horizon. In the second half of this
year (and thereafter?), we will be without the monetary and fiscal
steroids. Nor does anyone know what will happen to long-term interest
rates when the Federal Reserve ends its $600 billion quantitative easing
support of the capital markets. Inventory levels are at their highest
since September 2006; new order bookings are at the lowest levels since
September 2009. Since home equity has long been the largest asset on the
balance sheet of the average American family, all home­owners are
suffering from housing prices that have, on average, declined 33 percent
(compare that to the Great Depression drop of 31 percent).

No wonder the general economic mood is one of alarm. The Conference
Board measure of U.S. consumer confidence slumped to 60.8 percent in
May, down from 66 percent in April and well below the average of 73 in
past recessions, never mind the 100-plus numbers in good times. Never
before has confidence been this low in the 23rd month of a recovery.
Gluskin Sheff's Rosenberg captured it perfectly: We may well be in the
midst of a "modern depression."

Our political leadership in both Congress and the White House will
surely bear the political costs of a failure to work out short- and
long-term programs to fix the job shortage. The stakes are too high to
play political games.


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Fri, 06/24/2011 - 11:24 | 1398557 Caviar Emptor
Caviar Emptor's picture

For a long time I've called it The Downsizing of America

Fri, 06/24/2011 - 11:37 | 1398625 Mercury
Mercury's picture

Well, the population and the government are still growing.  It's more like the downsizing of the middle class and upward economic mobility.

Fri, 06/24/2011 - 11:38 | 1398635 Caviar Emptor
Caviar Emptor's picture

First of all gov jobs are shrinking. 

All part of the planned obsolescence of most of the US middle class

Fri, 06/24/2011 - 11:58 | 1398645 subqtaneous
subqtaneous's picture

and while they wither on the vine, 19K a year buys all the cheap, plastic ephemera they could possibly need in their toothless, disease infested squalor.


Fri, 06/24/2011 - 12:25 | 1398780 Misstrial
Misstrial's picture

Its a mistake to think that the Obama is exercising leadership to ameliorate unemployment.

Au contraire, his mission is to manage America's downward trajectory, not work to resolve it or solve it.

All of these talking heads on TV are missing the point: the guy doesn't give a damn. 

Maya Angelou: "When a person shows you who they are, believe them the first time."


Sat, 06/25/2011 - 10:59 | 1400941 Bobbyrib
Bobbyrib's picture

The only thing most politicians care about is getting re-elected. These people are a sick joke on the rest of us.

Fri, 06/24/2011 - 12:22 | 1398782 TheMerryPrankster
TheMerryPrankster's picture


Your empathy is touching. You should be a banker.

Is that you Dick Cheney?

Fri, 06/24/2011 - 13:25 | 1398991 mayhem_korner
mayhem_korner's picture

In 2006, Dick Cheney gave $6.9M of his $8.8M in income to charity.

Fri, 06/24/2011 - 13:56 | 1399084 TheMerryPrankster
TheMerryPrankster's picture

Yeah but his net worth is around a 100 million dollars, so he ain't exactly divesting himself of all worldly goods. How many of those charities did he have an interest in?

Dick Cheney has been called by many who know him, as being one of the coldest most self centered individuals they have ever known. I don't know Dick Cheney and would like to keep it that way.

He is an equal opportunity psychopath willing to destroy anything between him and his goal, even if it is only that last cookie on the silver tray next to the fireplace in the study.

The only people who defend him are relatives or employees, so which are you, Scooter?

Fri, 06/24/2011 - 14:43 | 1399332 Canucklehead
Canucklehead's picture

... Aaron Barr, is that you?

Fri, 06/24/2011 - 14:51 | 1399345 mayhem_korner
mayhem_korner's picture

Brilliant call, my Canadian amigo.  Sorry about your hockey team, dude.

Fri, 06/24/2011 - 14:49 | 1399342 mayhem_korner
mayhem_korner's picture

I don't know him either, and I neither defend nor persecute him.  I was just pointing out a fact to provide some texture to your inference that he is not empathetic.

Sat, 06/25/2011 - 11:06 | 1400943 Bobbyrib
Bobbyrib's picture

He is only mostly a psychopath. Happy now?

I hope the charities he supported had to do with supporting veterans of  the US invasion of Iraq.

Fri, 06/24/2011 - 14:24 | 1399239 XRAYD
XRAYD's picture

You mean his Halliburton goodies?

Fri, 06/24/2011 - 14:53 | 1399349 mayhem_korner
mayhem_korner's picture

Tell us all you know about Halliburton other than what you were told by the MSM about contracts in the Middle East.


Fri, 06/24/2011 - 15:05 | 1399391 Crisismode
Crisismode's picture

How about you going first?

Fri, 06/24/2011 - 15:06 | 1399408 mayhem_korner
mayhem_korner's picture

Nice try at being clever.  FAIL. 

We're supposed to be anonymous here, right?

Fri, 06/24/2011 - 18:01 | 1399911 TheMerryPrankster
TheMerryPrankster's picture

DICK CHENEY AND HALLIBURTON: In this week's New Yorker, Jane Mayer details Dick Cheney's controversial history with Halliburton, beginning with Cheney's privatization initiatives in the early 90s when he was Defense Secretary which led to a huge Halliburton outsourcing contract for the military. Cheney then became CEO of Halliburton after leaving the government, using his connections to expand their public contracts and earning $44 million for himself in the process. The article also details how Halliburton did business with Iraq, Iran and Libya during Cheney's tenure through foreign subsidiaries, contradicting Cheney statements on the subject. Mayer also explains how Cheney's policies have set up Halliburton as one of the few companies that can handle many of the military's outsourcing needs, leading to it's huge role in today's military operations. Finally, Mayer describes the current feeding frenzy for Iraq contracts, and how Bush/Cheney cronies are angling to cash in.

Since there are no criminals in the empire, he must be accused only of showing poor judgement in allowing himself to be portrayed in a negative light.

Fri, 06/24/2011 - 19:23 | 1400093 mayhem_korner
mayhem_korner's picture

Maybe you missed this part, MP...

Tell us all you know about Halliburton other than what you were told by the MSM about contracts in the Middle East.

Bad enough that you couldn't come up with something, but making my point via direct quote of an MSM rag makes my day!  Well, I'm off to buy some gold...happy hunting (w/Dick of course)!

Sat, 06/25/2011 - 03:31 | 1400735 TheMerryPrankster
TheMerryPrankster's picture

He favors brown socks. Likes to eat cheerios in his underwear, literally, not a bowl, in his underwear. Favorite color brown, no blue, no brown, oh dear.

Was tasked by G.W. Bush to head his committee to choose a vice presidental candidate, chose himself. Drinks excessively, has a bad heart and a brain to match, is in the final stage of cardiac failure and must soon decide on a transplant or death.

Likes to wear women's clothing and hang around in bars, I heard that from a lumberjack who said he was 'okay', so that may be open to conjecture.

Enjoys pointless faceless exchanges with internet trolls.

Has a pair of girl scouts in leg irons in his basement.

Okay I'm really scraping the barrel here, but the only other thing I know is he enjoys picking his nose while driving and likes the little woman to address him as Dr. Cuddles when he is feeling frisky.

Sat, 06/25/2011 - 11:11 | 1400950 Bobbyrib
Bobbyrib's picture

He said Halliburton, not Dick Cheney. Whatever information you get from our liberal media is not good enough to be considered facts. Oh and they never moved their headquarters to Dubai (all the information I need to know).

Fri, 06/24/2011 - 19:25 | 1400097 TimmyB
TimmyB's picture

In 2006, Cheney was our Vice-President.  Do you mean to tell me that while he was serving as our nation's VP he was on Halliburton's payroll to the tune of $8.8 million? 

I don't think your comment about how Cheney gave away millions in 2006 shows anything other than how completely corrupt our country has become.  The fact that you are touting it as if its a good thing makes it all the worse.    

Sun, 06/26/2011 - 07:00 | 1402571 mayhem_korner
mayhem_korner's picture

Wasn't touting it as good or bad.  Simply presenting a fact.  BTW, the $8.8M came from Halliburton stock options and royalties from his wife's books (the income is combined).

Your comment is proof positive that you (and others) read into things that aren't there.

Sat, 06/25/2011 - 10:57 | 1400939 Bobbyrib
Bobbyrib's picture

Unfortunately the country can't afford to keep as many Federal employees on its payroll as when the country was "prosperous." There needs to be a downsizing in the public sector. Of course that will add to the unemployment rate, but it needs to be done. Most of us on this website believe the dollar is heading towards collapse. Not reducing government spending will only accelerate the process.

Fri, 06/24/2011 - 14:23 | 1399234 XRAYD
XRAYD's picture

Not DROWNsizing?

Fri, 06/24/2011 - 15:23 | 1399471 FreedomGuy
FreedomGuy's picture

I call this the dismal economy. Everyone in my family minus retirees has been laid off, downsized, part timed or taken pay reductions, often more than once. Not one, including me is making what we made a few years ago. I have not had one friend over 50 years old get reemployed at more than half their old wages...if employed at all. (BTW, none of us work in banking or Wall Street or government.)

Meanwhile, Washington chatters on, the central planners dream and plan and even the Republicans apart from Ron Paul do not really propose to change a single thing. They just propose to do all the same things cheaper than the Democrats.

Our current economy is the direct result of the leviathan state. The statist-collectivist-socialist planners have won and this is what winning actually looks like. We are not any smarter or better than Europeans and others who practice the same things. We are just adopting their ideas later and more slowly but with the same results.

The other aspect as I watch oil and all commodities plummet is that we live in a political economy. Nothing depends on business anymore. Everything depends on what the central planners do. They dump oil on the market and every commoditiy plummets. They create money and monetize t-bills, interest rates stay artificially low and money is improperly priced. Change a tariff, a tax break, a subsidy, a regulation, an EPA standard...these are the stupid things that drive economies, now. Making good products, good management, invention, good business models...those are distant seconds compared to what the government does.

Does anyone else realized what drooling idiots we have as central planners and leaders by and large? This is the economy you get, a political economy with powerful central governments. Everyone enjoy and plan your future accordingly.

Fri, 06/24/2011 - 15:33 | 1399498 RunningMan
RunningMan's picture

I have yet to see any sign that suggests we are in anything but a nosedive in the global economy. Germany seems to be busy, but is lashed to the euro and surrounded by PIIGS. US is in retreat. Little work here (already worse than 2008), gas prices outrageous. 

Of course it is a depression. Masked by economic repression. Cloaked by academic regression. And clouded by clever expressions.

Fri, 06/24/2011 - 11:28 | 1398571 Freddie
Freddie's picture

Zuckerman is another a*s s**ker who voted for Hussein in 2008. 

Fri, 06/24/2011 - 11:50 | 1398659 Freddie
Freddie's picture

Hilarious seeing all these people getting junked by scumbag Obama voters who post here.  Scum like Zuckerman Bilderberger who voted for the Kenyan.

Fri, 06/24/2011 - 11:55 | 1398676 Terminus C
Terminus C's picture

They junk you for falling into the "blues" vs. "greens" hype...

Oh wait, its repubs vs demos.

Got mixed up there, thought we were talking about Constantinople.

Fri, 06/24/2011 - 18:52 | 1400019 SilverDosed
SilverDosed's picture

hold your chariots there

Fri, 06/24/2011 - 12:02 | 1398706 WallStreetClass...'s picture

fck off, reetard

Fri, 06/24/2011 - 12:32 | 1398798 Stax Edwards
Stax Edwards's picture

Even more hiliarious when someone like Freddie forgets he is not posting on a Fox News site and reveals how far his head is up his ass.  Go back to your seat and shut your mouth unless you have something intelligent to say.

Fri, 06/24/2011 - 17:28 | 1399820 Freddie
Freddie's picture

You are a bigger fool for thinking ANY media is different. Fox is with the elites like the rest. All hollywood, all tv, all newspapers.  Go wipe your chin because it has hope & change all over it.  Those hope & change STDs must hurt.

I love the Dem scum who voted the islamo in and now say they are all the same.  F off.

Bush sucked and is another one worlder but he was heaven compared to this.

Fri, 06/24/2011 - 18:35 | 1399985 knowless
knowless's picture

you are an extreme douche.


that being said, the potus is not the head of the current world hierarchy, and if you honestly think mccain would have been better, than please explain, what would he have done differently.

seriously, I want to know what mccain would have done? he's a republican, the party of tarp, dont blame me, i voted for kodos.


or we could just not act like retarded children arguing about whose daddy has the biggest cock or what the fuck ever it is you're trying to do.

your faith in the omnipotence of the president (reference to heaven whhhaaa?) is why i think you are unfixable, no real debate can occur.


good day.

Fri, 06/24/2011 - 12:18 | 1398773 Libertarians fo...
Libertarians for Prosperity's picture

Yes, such a strange reversal of sentiment over the course of 2 years. 

Mortimer is just feeling a little verklempft since Goldman's Real Estate Opportunities Fund convinced him to pay $2.9B - the loftiest price ever paid for an American office building - mere months before the world cracked in half. 

The largest tenet in the building is General Motors with over 100,000 sq.ft of leased space. When Obama orchestrated the GM bankruptcy, it allowed GM to void its lease contract in the GM building. So now, not only did the building loose ~30%-40% of its value in 18 months, a 100,000sqft tenant is threatening to leave in the middle of the worst slowdown in real estate history. Rumor has it, he offered GM 6 months of free rent to stay.

Mortimer is just redirecting his own incompetence and folly at Obama.    


Fri, 06/24/2011 - 12:35 | 1398824 TruthInSunshine
TruthInSunshine's picture

I didn't know this about Mort & his GM lease loss.

Thank you for that news that one would think the Lame Ass Stream Media would have bothered to report.

Fri, 06/24/2011 - 15:29 | 1399487 sgt_doom
sgt_doom's picture

Yup, old Morty is an American Media Corporation scumbag from waaaay back, including all those planted stories in his now non-mainstream US News & World Report claptrap (many especially liked his "tough guy Cheney piece -- just kidding!).

Morty, a longtime member of the lobbyist group for the international ultra-rich, the Bretton Woods Committee (, always gets it wrong, even when he's really trying!

America lost 15 million jobs in the meltdown -- officially 11 million offshored, but they don't count the smaller numbers -- so it really works out to 15 mil, plus there's that 22 million jobs forecast back in 1999, and they were created after all, just created overseas by American-based multinationals and corporations, not in America!

That works out to 37 million lost jobs, a much larger number -- which correlates to hugh jumps in poverty, homelessness, increases in food stamps, etc.

And that's not EVEN counting the de-multiplier effect....

Fri, 06/24/2011 - 12:26 | 1398792 trav7777
trav7777's picture

Cokzuckerman is just another triber in the clan whose shenanigans have bled a once-great nation totally dry.

The nations that haven't made the devil's bargain with the "financiers" have never needed gigantic armies or to experience orgies of booms and busts

Fri, 06/24/2011 - 12:48 | 1398876 john39
john39's picture

funny, I always thought that the Pentagon just did the bidding of the banker clans.  so, in fact, they do use vast armies.  they just don't pay for it.

Fri, 06/24/2011 - 15:07 | 1399413 trav7777
trav7777's picture

? not reading for comprehension?  There are quite a few nations that did not welcome the chosen and their financial ponzis.  They have never needed to engage empire tactics or run ponzis

Fri, 06/24/2011 - 13:05 | 1398924 Libertarians fo...
Libertarians for Prosperity's picture


Hell hath no fury like a pickle-nose'd, potato pancake eater who makes a bad financial move.

Picklemer Buttercakeman is not an innovator. Picklemer is not a creator. Picklemer hasn't furthered society. All he's done is collected rent and flipped buildings for ever higher prices, based on the bubble economics crafted by his fellow clansmen. He's just another parasite sitting behind a $10,000 desk collecting real estate usury. 



Fri, 06/24/2011 - 17:31 | 1399828 Freddie
Freddie's picture

They love their little islamic who's records are totally sealed.  A lot of their stooges post here as well. All hussein boot lickers.

Fri, 06/24/2011 - 11:30 | 1398577 Seasmoke
Seasmoke's picture

this is bad news for the public employee leeches , who are they going to get to pay for their lifetime benefits

Fri, 06/24/2011 - 11:57 | 1398683 Iam_Silverman
Iam_Silverman's picture

"who are they going to get to pay for their lifetime benefits" ?

Don't you see the classic Ponzi mentality in that situation?  If you have X number of government retirees depleting a fund that is filled from taxpayers pockets, then you need 2X current taxpayers.  If the public sector won't provide them, then the governmanet can.  Voila', problem solved (in theory)....

Fri, 06/24/2011 - 12:11 | 1398734 Iam_Silverman
Iam_Silverman's picture

Now for a quick edit to disguise an errant double-post...


I just wanted to say that not ALL government employees are leeches.  Some of them do perform necessary tasks that benefit the rest of us.  I was a government "leech" for six years (all active duty).

Fri, 06/24/2011 - 12:39 | 1398822 MachoMan
MachoMan's picture

Necessary in the sense that it is demanded or necessary in the sense that it must be performed by a public actor?  Big distinction...

Fri, 06/24/2011 - 14:35 | 1399300 Iam_Silverman
Iam_Silverman's picture

Well, would a privately owned defense force or tax collecting agency be more to your liking?  How about if they're both one and the same (or at least under the same corporate umbrella)?

Fri, 06/24/2011 - 15:06 | 1399406 Crisismode
Crisismode's picture

That day is coming, and a lot sooner than most people think.

Fri, 06/24/2011 - 19:01 | 1400035 SilverDosed
SilverDosed's picture

Its already here you dolt.

Fri, 06/24/2011 - 13:28 | 1398988 dugorama
dugorama's picture

well, there are actually very few leeches (sp!) in my opinion.  Who do you want to eliminate?  Air traffic controllers?  Border patrol? I don't need to list them all.  But just because medical research is mostly federally funded doesn't mean I'm against it.  We could do with a few hundred thousand fewer active duty types and one or two fewer wars, but....

Fri, 06/24/2011 - 14:04 | 1399060 Dr. Acula
Dr. Acula's picture

>Who do you want to eliminate?  Air traffic controllers?

Yes, if I don't fly then I don't want to pay for them. Let private entities airliners/airports pay for them - and ultimately the user of the airport services. How do you know there aren't too few or too many air traffic controllers right now? It's only through the airlines  paying for them, and paying the insurance and legal costs for a dearth of them, that the proper amount can be figured out. It's the same with the TSA. Any airline that didn't provide safe services, or hired security guards to fondle 80-year old grandmas, would be quickly eliminated provided that market forces are allowed to freely operate.

>Border patrol?

Yes, eliminate them. People should be free to breath, live, work, and travel where they want. I'm more interested in stoppping the bad people that are already here than in keeping good ones out. Personally, I'd gladly pay for private security to patrol my property, my neighborhood, or my town - for violations of property rights. Those people who choose to secure their own property, or simply go without, shouldn't be forced to pay.

>just because medical research is mostly federally funded doesn't mean I'm against it.

I am against socialist programs. Government should not own the means of production of medical knowledge. So I'd rather the industry pay for its own research. And even if you are for directly donating to pay for medical research, that doesn't give you the right to coerce others to pay too.

>We could do with a few hundred thousand fewer active duty types and one or two fewer wars


Fri, 06/24/2011 - 16:07 | 1399594 trav7777
trav7777's picture

lol...another libertardian

Fri, 06/24/2011 - 13:44 | 1399028 Dr. Acula
Dr. Acula's picture

"not ALL government employees are leeches.  Some of them do perform necessary tasks... I was a government "leech" for six years (all active duty)."

Were you protecting us from goatherders and poppy farmers?

The problem is: how can you ever be sure your services were "necessary" when many consumers are coerced into paying for unwanted services?


Fri, 06/24/2011 - 14:44 | 1399325 Iam_Silverman
Iam_Silverman's picture

"Were you protecting us from goatherders and poppy farmers?"

You mean like the ones that conspired to detonate a bomb alongside the U.S.S. Cole?

No, I'm much older than that.  I served during the Cold War and the "warm police actions" (1980 to 1986).

"The problem is: how can you ever be sure your services were "necessary" when many consumers are coerced into paying for unwanted services?"

I guess you're right.  How many (free) countries exist right now that don't have a standing Army/Navy/Air Force?  If we were all too busy standing around a campfire holding hands, singing KumBaYa we wouldn't have so much time to "covet our neighbors assets", and they ours.

Fri, 06/24/2011 - 11:30 | 1398581 fbrothers
fbrothers's picture

Ask him if he got his money back from Madoff. Such great returns.

Fri, 06/24/2011 - 11:34 | 1398613 quintago
quintago's picture

between the tax credits and the value of the shares (through recovery, which IS happening), the investors are almost being made whole again, minus the interest.

Fri, 06/24/2011 - 11:29 | 1398585 sbenard
sbenard's picture

I'm glad Zuckerman has awakened to the awfulness of our situation. Where was he 3 years ago when many of us saw the danger of electing a progressive tyrant to the WH? He was not only blind to the risk; he endorsed Obama!

Progressivism IS tyranny!

Fri, 06/24/2011 - 11:53 | 1398684 Terminus C
Terminus C's picture

so many people still don't get it.  It no longer matters who you vote into office.

It is now government vs. people, not republicans vs. democrats.

Fri, 06/24/2011 - 13:43 | 1399053 mayhem_korner
mayhem_korner's picture

Let me suggest a slight nuance on the gov't v. people issue.  The "system" comprises three functions related to wealth - creation, allocation, and receipt.  Most people exhibit some elements of each, but the elites try to pigeon-hole "classes" with coarse labels like "the rich" or "the working class".

So the elites (primarily allocators, but also receivers) try to pit the creators against the recipients.  That's the ole Robin Hood class warfare tactic.  The goal is to confine a majority of the voting public to the recipient class, such that the dependency promotes evergreen status for a highly-allocative administration. 

My nuance is that not all "people" are against the government.  Indeed, the grand plan is to ostracize those that do, all the while keeping them in the minority.

Ultimately, the recipients are enslaved by their dependency, the creators are enslaved by taxation.  That is, until it falls apart...

-in my sopwith camel

Fri, 06/24/2011 - 19:16 | 1400061 SilverDosed
SilverDosed's picture

I dont neccessarily agree that all the goverrnment is against the people, thats not its primary goal. Its goal is to expand and in most cases make up its own values. If you run the defense department of course you want a bigger defense budget, higher wages for all of your soldiers/employees, job creation, faster advancement, and earlier retirement. Of course a higher pension would be nice too. All you have to do is prove that you are needed. How they do this is a big part of the problem as well. The problem is all public sectors/ beauracracies work this way. Cops hand out more speeding tickets for higher pay, better gear, etc. Dont even get me started on the legal system either, that is one scary bloated beast. All they have to do is make the people think they are needed.

Fri, 06/24/2011 - 12:02 | 1398705 Freddie
Freddie's picture

Hilarious watching a*s *s**king Ob*m* voters here on ZH junk you.  They are scum.

Fri, 06/24/2011 - 12:47 | 1398831 Stax Edwards
Stax Edwards's picture

Caution Freddie, there are critical thinkers here.  That whole red/blue thing is to keep small minds like yours occupied while the banksters and politicians pick your pockets.


Quasi-Democratic Fascism will be discussed in future history books, bet on it.

Fri, 06/24/2011 - 17:34 | 1399836 Freddie
Freddie's picture

No.  We know the Repobs and Dems are the same just the Dems are more evil. Loads of lefty Dem a** **kers here on ZH love their hope and change muslim.

Fri, 06/24/2011 - 11:59 | 1398711 WallStreetClass...'s picture

regressivism is retardation

Fri, 06/24/2011 - 12:09 | 1398731 Hedgetard55
Hedgetard55's picture

+55 kajillion.


It'a a mental disorder with a death wish attached.

Fri, 06/24/2011 - 12:12 | 1398738 Hedgetard55
Hedgetard55's picture



It's a mental disorder with a death wish attached.

Fri, 06/24/2011 - 12:11 | 1398740 Things that go bump
Things that go bump's picture

I take it you would prefer your masters to be red.

Fri, 06/24/2011 - 12:52 | 1398890 divide_by_zero
divide_by_zero's picture

There are progressives in both camps which leads to a somewhat but not completely false dichotomy of the blue/red thingy since one is more captured than the other.

Fri, 06/24/2011 - 11:28 | 1398586 King_of_simpletons
King_of_simpletons's picture

All these arseholes are very good at analysing in hindsight. No one can put forth a plan or a spec of vision to get out of the clusterfuck. Convenient mechanism. These aholes know that dems and repubs are incapable of doing the right thing (ie. start Austerity now).

Fri, 06/24/2011 - 11:58 | 1398647 Mercury
Mercury's picture

Yeah, government austerity:

-Stop trying to prevent markets from clearing.

-Let owners of mis-allocated capital realize losses.

-Cut the crap with the endless licences, fees, permits, taxes, compliance and rent-seeking bullshit you need to deal with to accomplish anything productive these days.

Fri, 06/24/2011 - 12:09 | 1398743 Roger O. Thornhill
Roger O. Thornhill's picture

You are exactly right.

This is the effect of centralization. It is the power crazy person's dream to centralize it all - but that hasn't worked out very well. Typically you get a disconnect from what the problems are and your centralized lever pulling does nothing but cause more problems (unintended consequences). But foolish people want to 'believe' that there is some intelligent government architect who can fix all the problems - it's foolish, stupid, and never works.

Markets just work (when not being manipulated). I always use the example of the drug dealing supply chains - there is no govt agency that keeps them afloat, the chains are destroyed countless times, yet the drugs keep flowing because people want them. Decentralized markets overcome and adapt - and usually very quickly. If people want it they'll find a way to get it.

But this all goes against the politics of the centralized 'utopia' - and for the past hundred years 'utopia' is the new religion, the new ideal. Unfortunately the centralized utopias by their nature can only be run by people like Mao, Stalin, Hitler and Pol Pot. But the utopians still never learn, in their fantasy we will make (by force) a perfect world with 'no child left behind.' In the minds of the new political religion, tyranny brings freedom.

We were more advanced and enlightened in our thinking in 1789.

Fri, 06/24/2011 - 12:34 | 1398802 trav7777
trav7777's picture

yes, bbbbut...bbbbut...they owned SLAVES and regarded africa as a continent populated by illiterates.  Fast forward 250 years and what do you still see?

Fri, 06/24/2011 - 12:56 | 1398905 Roger O. Thornhill
Roger O. Thornhill's picture

You are right - that is of course the argument of the publicly educated unfortunates and their leaders!

I remember reading Aristotle the first time and realizing we may actually be dumber than our ancestors... a disturbing moment to be sure.

Fri, 06/24/2011 - 14:16 | 1399160 Dr. Acula
Dr. Acula's picture

>We were more advanced and enlightened in our thinking in 1789.

Not really. Austro-libertarians have made and are continuing to make huge and exciting intellectual strides on subjects like human action, economics, epistemology, history, statism, property rights, coercion, ethics, and IP.

Fri, 06/24/2011 - 11:29 | 1398587 TruthInSunshine
TruthInSunshine's picture

Jobs are so last century, bitchez.

We don't need no stinkin' jobs.

Exciting and innovative 'financial engineering' is our future.

Fri, 06/24/2011 - 11:36 | 1398604 Caviar Emptor
Caviar Emptor's picture

And we're all over it, bro. The excitement is palpable. I'm busy as a bee marketing HFT Algo volatility third derivative options and futures, swaptions and spread products. Oh and the triple short ETF, and CDS on my own solvency. 

Fri, 06/24/2011 - 11:41 | 1398631 TruthInSunshine
TruthInSunshine's picture

Same here.

I am building proprietary trading 'black boxes' that have midget quants inside of them, that I shall sell on fleabay, to assist all the aspiring daytraders out there.

These black boxes consume no power, but water and vitamin fortified gruel do have to be provided via an insertion tube thrice daily (fortified gruel packets sold separately).

p.s. - Some of these black boxes run better if supplemental porn is provided, while others seem to prefer cocaine or Modafinil. Each one is unique.

Fri, 06/24/2011 - 11:42 | 1398646 Caviar Emptor
Caviar Emptor's picture

Wow. That sounds like a winner! We should coalesce and dominate the space, running a virtual Ponzi scheme from an offshore location using a shell company fronting for a dummy corporation to avoid all tax. Then we could devote more time to lobbying so that we get a full bailout each time we crash 

Fri, 06/24/2011 - 11:45 | 1398653 TruthInSunshine
TruthInSunshine's picture

You call Bernank, I'll call Jeetner.

They both have said they're not needing any cash, but they do both have a fetish for midgets, and I've got some spare quant midgets.

I just want to make sure they can guarantee us a backstop if we provide them with service midgets.

Fri, 06/24/2011 - 11:48 | 1398664 Caviar Emptor
Caviar Emptor's picture

We are too big to fail, too fat to jail, too cool to wail

Fri, 06/24/2011 - 11:52 | 1398682 cdskiller
cdskiller's picture

+1 I would like to nominate this as one of the most entertaining threads of the year.

Fri, 06/24/2011 - 12:17 | 1398770 Iam_Silverman
Iam_Silverman's picture

"I am building proprietary trading 'black boxes' that have midget quants inside of them"

Must be a bitch to upgrade.  How would you get double, triple or quad processor speed, human centipede 'em together?

Fri, 06/24/2011 - 13:38 | 1398855 TruthInSunshine
TruthInSunshine's picture

That's an excellent question.

We have a capable eugenics team that is already breeding far more brilliant midget quants ("MQ"), for those choosing to upgrade in the future.

Upgrading will be as simple as flushing the black box and inserting the new MQ, which is shipped to you in a hermetically sealed package.

The breeding program is quite robust. These MQs have an insatiable appetite for cocaine, porn and fornication.

I am Lloyd/Jamie's rationalization of profit-maximization over morality, ethos or human empathy, aka "doing god's work" per SquidGospel.

Fri, 06/24/2011 - 14:15 | 1399197 RichardENixon
RichardENixon's picture

Have you established a retirement program for them based on an unsustainable Ponzi Scheme model, or do you intend to go the Death Panel route? I think you could skim a lot more money using the former.

Fri, 06/24/2011 - 14:28 | 1399245 TruthInSunshine
TruthInSunshine's picture

We treat them humanely, aside from the whole keeping them in 3' x 3' black box their entire lives, their gruel is organic, but upon their natural expiration, we sell them to Soylent Pink Offal, LLC.

What happens to them from there, we do not know.


Soylent Pink Offal, LLC
Fri, 06/24/2011 - 14:39 | 1399304 RichardENixon
RichardENixon's picture

Now that's what I call adding shareholder value! Except the part about treating them humanely, of course.

Mon, 06/27/2011 - 10:07 | 1405199 fallout11
fallout11's picture

Humorous and entertaining thread, +9001.

Fri, 06/24/2011 - 12:05 | 1398718 Freddie
Freddie's picture

Groupon derivatives hooked into linkedin and twitter on your iPad with green carbon credits.

Fri, 06/24/2011 - 12:15 | 1398758 Iam_Silverman
Iam_Silverman's picture

"on my own solvency."

Being solvent is so last decade.  Wake up and mark to magic!  It is the only way to stay competitive.

Fri, 06/24/2011 - 11:29 | 1398588 DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture

OK, Mr. Z, you offer no solutions, no ideas.  Yeah, we know it's bad.

How about reducing taxes and regulatory uncertainty?  C'mon, you can do better than roll out numbers we already know...

Fri, 06/24/2011 - 12:01 | 1398720 WallStreetClass...'s picture

what's "regulatory uncertainty"? You mean, can banks leverage all of us into another default? You bet your ass they can't. Is that certain enough?

Fri, 06/24/2011 - 11:33 | 1398590 legal eagle
legal eagle's picture

So, from a population of about 340 million we have 130 million working. No problem.

Fri, 06/24/2011 - 11:50 | 1398670 Max Hunter
Max Hunter's picture

and of those 130 million, how many pay enough to actually support one person or a family?.. I wonder..

Fri, 06/24/2011 - 12:10 | 1398708 Terminus C
Terminus C's picture

How many work for the public sector? 50%

You have 65 million working Americans supporting 330 million.  They also support the Euros, the Japanese, and the Chinese.

I don't understand why people think this is unstable...

Fri, 06/24/2011 - 12:35 | 1398812 TheMerryPrankster
TheMerryPrankster's picture

shhhhh It's too much regulation and taxes. Didn't you get the oligarchy talking points. This has nothing to do with shutting the factories and shipping them to China to export pollution and exploit slave labor.

The owners get richer by destroying their customers, it must be a suicide death wish to die in a golden coffin.

Unstable, no its like falling off a cliff, the certainy is absolute, gravity never fails.

Fri, 06/24/2011 - 13:36 | 1399021 TruthInSunshine
TruthInSunshine's picture

Population:                                        311,000,000

U.S. Workforce:                                  139,000,000

Official Unemployment (using U3):          13,890,000 [9.1%]

Actual Unemployment (using U6):           24,300,000 [17.5%]

State/Local Government Employees:        16,000,000

Federal Government Employees:              4,300,000

US Retirees and SSI:                             65,000,000+

SNAP (Food Stamp) Recipients:               45,000,000+

Total Debt* (source: Fed Reserve):          55 Trillion

*Household, business, state & local governments, financial institutions and the federal government.

Fri, 06/24/2011 - 14:18 | 1399216 RichardENixon
RichardENixon's picture

Those figures spell good news for stocks.

Fri, 06/24/2011 - 11:35 | 1398600 bigwavedave
bigwavedave's picture

Internet. Email. China. Facebook. Face it. 

Fri, 06/24/2011 - 11:52 | 1398665 Ricky Bobby
Ricky Bobby's picture

Poetry it is!

Fri, 06/24/2011 - 11:35 | 1398601 Oh regional Indian
Oh regional Indian's picture

i heard even the steve jobs situation is much worse than it looks.

Fri, 06/24/2011 - 11:36 | 1398606 the not so migh...
the not so mighty maximiza's picture

Since the whole political system is run by the same overlords it is more of a monetary, exponential math,  fiscal problem.  The politicians never have and will never have answers.

Fri, 06/24/2011 - 11:38 | 1398611 blunderdog
blunderdog's picture

Why does a guy like this, who appears to be able to perceive the reality of our economic situation, use the word "recovery" when talking about it?

Is that a political concession so he can get published or something?

Fri, 06/24/2011 - 11:36 | 1398626 bigwavedave
bigwavedave's picture

No he is just another smart-ass waste of space who like to talk down to the masses that will not listen to him... 

Fri, 06/24/2011 - 11:56 | 1398696 Sunshine n Lollipops
Sunshine n Lollipops's picture

Yeah, I noticed that, too. Man, he was preachin' the gospel from the back of our Bandwagon of Doom, gettin' 'Amens' from the choir and then, out of the blue, threw that 2-ton anchor over the side. I went from 'Amen' to 'WTF?'

Fri, 06/24/2011 - 11:39 | 1398614 Alcoholic Nativ...
Alcoholic Native American's picture

I'm broke as fuck myself with no job!  At least I'm eating good.  The unemployment office is fucking useless unless you are actually getting unemployment checks, for finding jobs it's a joke.  I'm a young guy that didn't get my foot in the door for a real job so I don't get 99 weeks of 300+ dollars a week and I don't have a mortgage I can stop paying.


Fri, 06/24/2011 - 12:12 | 1398755 Freddie
Freddie's picture

Hope & Change my man.  Young folks love Mugabe 2 cuase he can twitter on the teleprompter.  McCain was the Dems/elites plan B.   The Kenyan has fvkk-ed your future.

Fri, 06/24/2011 - 13:02 | 1398928 Dburn
Dburn's picture

J"I'm broke as fuck myself with no job!  At least I'm eating good.  The unemployment office is fucking useless unless you are actually getting unemployment checks, for finding jobs it's a joke."


Note: sorry for the long post. It just came out.

A few sense worth of advise. If you are reasonably comfortable in your own skin, i.e abilities, why not go knocking on sales managers doors , especially tech companies. Right now, very few people are happy with their sales reps. When things are going good it's the product, when things are going bad it's the reps and the agency. Since it sounds like your mobile, offer to take their worst performing territory. Look for B2B jobs. They are a little scarier than getting trained in retail to consumer sales, but the pay limit is not capped by anyone but you. Generally if the company likes you and wants to see you develop they will give you an expense account, some sort of salary and then commissions. I started this way in 1980 just as the last big recession hit, my territory was Cleveland.Cleveland was barely in the walking wounded as far cities in the rust belt. The territory extended out to W Pennsylvania, and W. Virginia. Everyone of these places got killed. It wasn't unusual to see 20-25% unemployment in cities and towns.

I won't kid you, it was the hardest I ever worked in my life. I was on the road 50 weeks out of the year. I went into retail shops on the week-end and helped them sell so I could help them and learn the business. I was 24 at the time. By the time the recovery started in 82, we wouldn't have known it. Jobs really didn't come back until 84.


In the two years I was with the company that hired me, I got to know my customers really well, so when the company fucked me on commissions (This happens frequently, see below) , I had my dealers lobby more prestigious manufacturers and I started an independent rep agency with my last paycheck. Not even a credit card.Yet within two years I was earning well over 6 figures which went higher and higher until I became an idiot and decided to change to distribution with tons more overhead.  Nevertheless by age 26 I purchased my first new car, paid off my student loans and was working like a motherfucker. This is the time to do it because this is when you have an inexhaustible supply of energy.

People may tell you the web has made salespeople obsolete. In fact in ads when they are looking for reps, they usually say "business development". I guess that's more classy. The reality is in B2B, nothing major moves without a talented sales rep. It's getting your nose wet that is difficult, yet finding an opening in the deep dark depths of a recession is the easiest ti9me to do the hardest job, getting hired. Sales forces are highly subject to the 80/20 rule. Sales managers are always under deep pressure. Age or education is not as much a factor, yet they still look for someone who can put in serious hours as a self-starter, who presents well and is fast on the intellectual draw who doesn't mind putting long ass hours in.

If you can't stand being alone, don't bother. If you have to be told what to do and when to do it, don't bother.


However if you can manage your time and can go for long lengths of time without seeing anyone familiar, get a fricking road job in "Business Development" or sales , whatever they call it. People still need the same reassurances they did 30 years ago when they are about to drop thousands of dollars. Remember the expression; "90% of life is showing up". You will be one of the few who show up since some  believe that all they have to do is increase site traffic, get those leads and close multi-thousand dollar sales over the phone.


Getting your foot in the door is hard but look at it this way, unless the company is a global fortune 500 company, someone is getting bitched at for lack of sales. So WTF do they have to lose? Just be assertive. Read a few books on closing sales and sell yourself to the sales manager aggressively. Be a pain in the ass. Until they  have to say yes. These are the traits they are looking for ...a person who is creative enough to find a new reason to call about the same subject which is part and parcel of being a good salesperson. The salespeople that you hear on the phone, call people again and again with the same tired pitch or they have a sneaky pitch written for them. They have a life span sometimes measured in hours but usually under one year.

Oh yeah, These jobs are rarely, if ever advertised. One nightmare for a sales manager are ads on Craig's list or the Job Boards and sifting through 1000s of resumes, conducting huge amounts of interviews , all the while his sales force is fucking off except you. Understanding their problems and making the pain go away is a key to getting your foot into an industry. Very few companies keep reps for a long time but they are still out there. You just have to dedicate yourself to a pretty rough lifestyle.


Look at it this way, I didn't have iPads, iPhones, email or even Fax machines then. There was no Google maps or company websites to educate yourself on the company.  Not even annual reports as they were all private.


You may also be selling to non-profits and for profits. A good way to get in the door of a big non-profit is convince a corporate contact to make a donation and show up with the check. You'll make friends fast. It's all quid-pro-quo and ass grinding hard work but there are serious tools that will help you that we never could even imagine. Anyone who is looking for a job would be silly not to look into this. It's one way of making serious money in an economy where the real money seems only to get paid to the C-Suite. Had the economy been normal after I graduated college, I never would have considered it. It turned out to be the best move I could make. Good way to dodge the student loans for a few years until you build your customer base.


Lets say you are successful: You will get screwed and sometimes you will have to go to court. I had a friend who sold for a Japanese company in the 80s. He had commissions due of $600,000. The company tried to explain that it was more than the all the executives made. Hard luck. He sued , he won, he got paid and his ex got most of it. Watch that drinking dude.

Company management who see zero sales come out of a territory or over-all sales down terrifically will set a percentage rate of commission from 2-10% in many smaller companies. In B2B its traditional that once you get a territory all economic activity that occurs in the territory is credited to your account which when starting out may be giving refund checks because the last rep made promises he couldn't keep , and alienated the companies.

So you go out and work your ass off and open up many new accounts that are selling your product. This of course provides the revenue for the company to start developing and be a bigger presence in marketing - as in advertising. Sometimes they hit a homer or a grand-slam and suddenly you are making more than the CEO.

This never would have happened had you not created a distribution network for them. That doesn't matter, 7% of zero which sounded so good two years ago is now 7% of 30 Million. That's when you get fired, the sales territory is split into five , new reps are hired and paid salary only. This rarely works out, but you won't be around to see the blow-back. Always be on the look out for product lines to replace something that is starting to pick-up in sales.

Usually this is done by making yourself known at trade shows, lobbying customers and in some cases with new companies, write orders for their product , call them up and ask them if they want the orders in exchange for the territory. I done it and I have friends that have done it successfully.

Being desperate (never show the desperation - hi, you are one of five companies that I am very interested in selling for as your products ( find out what they do) are stand-alone winners. Being bold and aggressive is key. Youth or being in terrific physical shape is close to required especially in a major recession. Sometimes you'll fly, sometimes you'll drive and sometimes you'll call on the phone. I'll take travel over telemarketing any day of the week simply because it's harder to say no to a person who just traveled 200 Miles to your door.

For those of you out of work and ready to take on a challenge, I can think of nothing that has more potential upside reward if you have the internal fortitude to get through the first few years as you establish trust with your customers and get to know your territory. It's real hard to do that on the Phone. Women have a much easier time or at least they used to but I have no problems any more hanging up on them. 

Stop waiting for something to happen and go make a pest of yourself to some overworked on-the-verge of getting fired, sales-manager. (p.s. Sales Management is the worst fucking job in the world. Some think it's a corporate stepping stone, which may be true, but to me it's a stepping stone into hell.) Take the pain away as he considers the hell of advertising or just shooting himself for new blood.

Good luck finding the cheap suits that look good and getting a vehicle that doesn't look like it came from the junkyard or was recently stolen. Look for companies that provide cars if your transportation sucks and/or your credit does. You might borrow a car for a few months from a relative to see if you can cut it before stepping into any debt if you find a reputable company. Speaking of which, many times you won't get to first base if you reserve your search to "Good Companies". Sometimes you have to find the start-ups or the companies that have fucked up to get in. Just don't plan on staying their long. The major assets you want is the territory and the good faith of the customers in it.

Brands come and go, but reps who are good will always be out there and refreshing their customer base as some take the big dive. Note: Unexpected customer loss; I was sitting down to breakfast and pulled up the Cleveland Plain Dealer and the on the front page above the fold was at huge picture of my recently murdered customer and his two sons who were shot at point blank range. I called my office and one of the reps asked "Does he still want his backorders?" If you are sensitive, sales is not for you.

Sun, 06/26/2011 - 09:16 | 1402664 Kobe Beef
Kobe Beef's picture

Dear Dburn,

Thanks for posting! Good advice even for people not in Sales. I feel more motivated already!



Fri, 06/24/2011 - 11:34 | 1398615 Caviar Emptor
Caviar Emptor's picture

If we all work part time and do job sharing, then we'll all be fully employed again. 

Fri, 06/24/2011 - 15:09 | 1399425 FreedomGuy
FreedomGuy's picture

No problems, friend! Obama has some more "shovel ready" jobs for all of us. He will take all the unemployed. Half will dig a hole and the other half will fill it in. This creates full employment and GDP goes up!

Furthermore we will inflate the currency so that all these people are paid millions to do the job. Then he can favorably compare himself to Bush stating that he has achieved full employment and everyone is a millionaire and it will all be true!!!!

Well, sort of.

Mon, 06/27/2011 - 10:16 | 1405245 fallout11
fallout11's picture

Frequent ZH guest article writer Charles Hugh Smith has already covered this process indepth for several years.  In short, prepare for the end of paying work in the US.

Fri, 06/24/2011 - 11:34 | 1398617 breezer1
Fri, 06/24/2011 - 11:41 | 1398630 Alcoholic Nativ...
Alcoholic Native American's picture

"remember, remember guys, ....greenshoots?"

lol, good vid.

Fri, 06/24/2011 - 12:38 | 1398832 TheMerryPrankster
TheMerryPrankster's picture

Greenshoots to the horizon, in every direction surrounded by a rapidly increasing soft patch, quicksand below. An unenlightened political cartoonist might portray Obama as a tarbaby stuck in a soft patch of ever more entangling strands of economic collapse.

Greenshoots, smoke em if you got em.

Fri, 06/24/2011 - 11:39 | 1398620 Tense INDIAN
Fri, 06/24/2011 - 11:40 | 1398623 legal eagle
legal eagle's picture

Reducing taxes and less regulation is not the answer. There is a plethora of cash on balance sheets, if firms wanted to hire they would. Lack of regulation is what caused this disease - subprime, CDOs, derivatives....less regulation would do what? What needs to happen is to let the banks fail, take our pain, and start again with reasonable taxation and reasonable regulation with an extra eye on MIT nerds kicking out investment instruments on Wall Street.

The problem is we socialize losses and privatize gains. That has to change.

Fri, 06/24/2011 - 11:38 | 1398634 SheepDog-One
SheepDog-One's picture

And it wont change until necks are in nooses. 

Fri, 06/24/2011 - 11:51 | 1398677 bourbondave
bourbondave's picture

I agree with the last line but can't agree regarding regulation.  All regulation does is provide cover for the same crooks and breeds complacency in everyone else.  Allowing failure and pain is the only way to make people think for themselves.  Regulation will never do anything but maintain the status quo.  It is always created by scum for scum.

For example, where I used to work (ins co) I saw investment specialists invest billions based on nothing more than Ratings and faith in Regulation.  No due dilligence at all.  Ridiculous.

Fri, 06/24/2011 - 12:11 | 1398733 legal eagle
legal eagle's picture

I will go along with your no regulation if private actors pay when they fail AND if regular unsophisticated folks have a safe place to keep and invest their savings. I would propose a national bank that allows folks to invest in CDs, treasuries and interest bearing accounts that are backed 100 percent by taxpayers. Private banks for equity investments and everything else, zero protection. You want to risk, you take downside and upside. No regulation at all - see how the free market works.

Fri, 06/24/2011 - 14:46 | 1399330 Urban Redneck
Urban Redneck's picture

Regulation is a broad term, in the financial industry "regulation" has greatly increased since the repeal of Glass-Stegall, but accountability and liability has declined, on top of that TBTF have gotten bigger, while small banks are taken over by the FDIC each week.

Outside of financial industry, regulation prevents establishment of new manufacturing and service enterprises.

Regulation also tends not to discriminate between large and small enterprises.  A large enterprises can spend millions of dollars per year on legal, accounting, process engineering, and training staff, smaller enterprises cannot. 

Furthermore, since it is difficult for a startup company to borrow funds, they all start small, so when the barriers to entry for small businesses rise, the number of new small businesses decrease. 

Just look at the EPA regulations on house painting - they drive out countless small practitioners, and the only providers left are either larger corporate entities that can afford the "oxygen tent" apparatus and training and increased certification and liability insurance thresholds, or the black economy/illegal providers.

Fri, 06/24/2011 - 12:46 | 1398859 goldsaver
goldsaver's picture

There is not a single human endeavor were government regulation has had a positive outcome. Not one.

I do agree with you on letting the private loses be private and the private gains stay private. Do you really think that the CDOs, subprimes, derivatives, et al would have been invented, or if invented grown to 100th of their current size without fiat currency, bank risk centralised at the Fed and implicit protection to TPTB by the tax payers? Not a chance! If you are an independent bank (still an evil creature...but I digress) that has to keep sound money policies or loose all your deposits, you will not engage in fraudulent or extremelly risky gambling. At least not for long.

Fri, 06/24/2011 - 17:59 | 1399906 trav7777
trav7777's picture

you're an idiot

Fri, 06/24/2011 - 11:41 | 1398629 RobotTrader
RobotTrader's picture

Everybody I know that has a full time job in banking or finance are putting in 12 hr. days.

If they can't hack that, they will get fired because there are 10 other guys lined up ready to work 12-14 hour days if necessary.

However, in the "social media" space in Santa Monica, there are tons of guys making 6 figures who don't do anything but hold conferences and hang out in Zen gardens, smoke cigarettes and dream up the next cool Andriod app.

Fri, 06/24/2011 - 11:40 | 1398639 4shzl
4shzl's picture

So how much of your 12-hr. day do you spend trolling on ZH, wndysrf?

Fri, 06/24/2011 - 11:42 | 1398641 SheepDog-One
SheepDog-One's picture

Get back to processing those preliminary loan docs in your broom closet office MomoFader, worst paper trader of all time.

You'll never be a pigman.

Fri, 06/24/2011 - 11:50 | 1398657 Caviar Emptor
Caviar Emptor's picture

Awww, man! And here I thought I might know my first PigMan....

Sat, 06/25/2011 - 00:32 | 1400594 TruthInSunshine
TruthInSunshine's picture

RoboMomoFaderTrader is actually a real life magician.

He makes the money of those who are naive enough to follow his advice disappear.

Fri, 06/24/2011 - 11:45 | 1398655 OrdellRobbie
OrdellRobbie's picture

And they got mortgage they can't afford and a new job that won't pay the last salary they had. It is pretty sad to wee when they loose their job and religiously show up at networking event with tie and all. 

Fri, 06/24/2011 - 11:51 | 1398678 oddjob
oddjob's picture

There will never be a shortage of financial yes men.

Fri, 06/24/2011 - 12:46 | 1398858 TheMerryPrankster
TheMerryPrankster's picture


the electron is always greener on the other side they say.


Fri, 06/24/2011 - 11:42 | 1398632 Dr. Richard Head
Dr. Richard Head's picture

Who cares?  Kim Kardashian x-rayed her butt.  I mean really, did you see that huge ass?  No implants.  Crazy I tell you.  I saw this on my iPad while I was checking my LinkedIn stock.  /sarc

Fri, 06/24/2011 - 11:40 | 1398638 SheepDog-One
SheepDog-One's picture

In 5-10 years the rest of her body will catch up with her fat ass and she'll be another typical Italian broad.

Fri, 06/24/2011 - 11:50 | 1398672 DonnieD
DonnieD's picture

She's definitely a hit it and quit it. You definitely don't want to hitch your wagon to that. It's only going to get bigger.

Fri, 06/24/2011 - 12:14 | 1398751 Sunshine n Lollipops
Sunshine n Lollipops's picture

I dunno. She might be handy when gas hits $5/gal. Stick a feedbag around her neck and she could pull my wagon.


Fri, 06/24/2011 - 12:34 | 1398820 trav7777
trav7777's picture

who cares about that piece of trash?  She's a mudshark

Fri, 06/24/2011 - 14:27 | 1399238 RichardENixon
RichardENixon's picture

That ass has been pounded by Reggie Bush's dick so many times it's a miracle it's not shaped like a pancake.

Fri, 06/24/2011 - 11:45 | 1398642 Stuck on Zero
Stuck on Zero's picture

But the good news is that the rich are getting richer.

Fri, 06/24/2011 - 11:58 | 1398687 Ricky Bobby
Ricky Bobby's picture


Fri, 06/24/2011 - 11:46 | 1398643 Milton Waddams
Milton Waddams's picture

Oh wow, in the name of ever increasing corporate profits and trickle-up economics (gains from increased productivity disporpotionately flowing to capital opposed to labor) -- hollow out the manufacturing base and water down the public education system and feign outrage at what can only be called structural unemployment or a permanent 'underclass'.

Fri, 06/24/2011 - 11:43 | 1398644 Burgess Shale
Burgess Shale's picture

I remember seeing our current situation as an extrapolation on one of Ross Perot's charts back in 1994.  Who'da thunk it?

Fri, 06/24/2011 - 12:23 | 1398787 fuu
fuu's picture

Who indeed.

Fri, 06/24/2011 - 11:44 | 1398648 chistletoe
chistletoe's picture

I don't know if this is related or not.


All the young people that I come in contact with, express a desire for one of the following occupations:


photoshop artist

massage therapist

personal trainer

website designer.


None of them are interested in doing anything else.

In fact, none of them are willing to do anything else.

I wonder what that means.  Or how that happened.

Fri, 06/24/2011 - 11:57 | 1398699 TruthInSunshine
TruthInSunshine's picture

Yes, many young women in developed Amerika are finding employment in the booming areas of:

Massage Therapy

Bodyworks Technician

Stockings Lipper; see this video for details: Lip my stockings

Fri, 06/24/2011 - 12:03 | 1398712 Bam_Man
Bam_Man's picture

Give it a couple more years and you will be able to add the following to that list:

1) Footman

2) Parlor Maid

3) Table Servant

4) Skullery Maid

The overlords will be needing servants to staff their properties and look after their needs.


Fri, 06/24/2011 - 12:12 | 1398754 Caviar Emptor
Caviar Emptor's picture

5) Beekeeper. Every overlord needs one

Fri, 06/24/2011 - 12:58 | 1398899 Pchelar
Pchelar's picture

Whew... I guess I'll have a job then!

Fri, 06/24/2011 - 12:16 | 1398762 Freddie
Freddie's picture


Sad but true. Hope & Change.


Fri, 06/24/2011 - 15:07 | 1399399 blueRidgeBoy
blueRidgeBoy's picture

most of them aren't qualified to do anything else.  The "best" of them have English or Psych or Cultural Studies degrees from some community college.  The "worst" of them have no degree of any kind, are functionally illiterate, and can't count past 10 let alone do any real math.  Meanwhile, the Indians and Chinese on H1-B visas have the engineering and IT jobs.  Why?  Because we sold our white kids on the fantasy of a "liberal arts" education (where the priority is to "learn how to think" - whatever the hell that means - rather than gaining any practical or marketable skill <gasp!>) and our black kids on the dream of playing in the NBA or becoming hip-hop artists.  They will become the permanent underclass, wards of the state, and the Democratic Party's core constituency.

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