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Why the Radical Left and Mainstream Republican Leaders Are Both Wrong About Inequality

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Thu, 12/01/2011 - 21:42 | 1936962 blindman
blindman's picture

thank,
. u.
.
http://geraldcelentechannel.blogspot.com/2011/12/fight-nwo-with-global-n...
.
Thursday, December 1, 2011
Fight the NWO with Global Non Compliance

Fight the New World Order with Global Non Compliance , starve the system that is feeding on you on your illusions and on your obedience stop complying ,The NWO system is completely widespread and it's tentacles stretch to just about every inch of the planet. People will need alternatives, global non-compliance is good in theory but people will need to jump? through the beats' hoops. The Freeman of the Land Society is not a bad place to start. Alternative cmmunities in the hills too (but don't expect Utopia). One simple rule, I do things for? the right reason, i follow my heart and consciousness, I treat others knowing they are other aspects of who I am. If we all treated others as we would be treated "do unto others as you would yourself" the world would change overnight. There is no need to kill shoot riot shout scream or hurt another. We allowed the NWO to exist by being complicit, now we are aware we can take that away from them. The one weapon they have no defence against is LOVE!
.
James Rickards on the IMF becoming a Central Bank and the Fed becoming a Hedge Fund
Posted on December 1, 2011 by maxkeiser|
http://geraldcelentechannel.blogspot.com/2011/12/fight-nwo-with-global-n...
.
http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2011/11/dylan-ratigan-to-eric-holder-%E2%...
Tuesday, November 29, 2011

Dylan Ratigan: To Eric Holder – A Simple Way To Prosecute Bank Crimes

By Dylan Ratigan, MSNBC host and author of the new book Greedy Bastards. Cross posted from DylanRatigan.com

Shahien Nasiripour has a great scoop in the FT – bank regulators have uncovered up to 5000 military families who were foreclosed on illegally by mortgage servicers. Foreclosures on active duty troops is usually a big no-no, for a lot of reasons – for instance, when your credit rating is damaged by a foreclosure, it can impact your national security clearance. In addition, there’s enormous stress that the soldier goes through when his or her family is facing a threat of eviction, and it’s the kind of stress that makes him or her less equipped to be ready in a warzone. Congressman Bob Filner has even accused banks of “homicide” against American troops, blaming the banks for suicides resulting from the increased stress brought on by aggressive debt collection techniques.

Thu, 12/01/2011 - 21:41 | 1936960 knukles
knukles's picture

BTW
Who really gives a shit anymore when it's all said and done?
Whether there is or is not equality at this juncture is kind of a moot point.

It's all Horseshit from here on out, anyway.
Nothing's gonna change.
The major monied interests will again likely prevail at the margin, just enough to keep the viscious cycle of influence in DC alive and well, corporate socialism and kleptocracy alive and rampant, for which you and I gentle readers, wind up footing the bill.

For in the end, there's nobody else but us, is there?
We're the only ones left at the close of business.

I sincerely hope and pray for the best but plan for the worst.

It's all Horseshit from here on out, anyway.

Thu, 12/01/2011 - 21:28 | 1936923 High Plains Drifter
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WEST DES MOINES, IOWA — A very confident New Gingrich asserted to ABC News Thursday afternoon that he will be the Republican presidential nominee.

“I’m going to be the nominee,” the former Speaker told ABC News. “It’s very hard not to look at the recent polls and think that the odds are very high I’m going to be the nominee.”

 

http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/politics/2011/12/gingrich-tells-abc-news-im-going-to-be-the-nominee/?wpisrc=nl_pmfix

 

see. he is saying what is already decided.............how does he know?    you tell me, oh wise reader............

elections are a joke and are controlled from the start.....

Thu, 12/01/2011 - 21:31 | 1936937 knukles
knukles's picture

 

 

Great.  Just fucking great.
4 more years of Obama.

Thu, 12/01/2011 - 22:36 | 1937085 High Plains Drifter
High Plains Drifter's picture

they took out cain sort of.  they just brought out his dalliances and that was enough to destroy any chance he once had.  they didn't have to work hard to do it. he did it to himself. the man obviously likes to play around with white women. can you imagine this guy in the white house?    for governor perry, same thing. they just let him be himself. a total idiot and he took himself out.........and i guess they told the mormon boy from boston to forget it too.  for paul, they will let him die on the vine by choking off any media attention. 

Fri, 12/02/2011 - 10:16 | 1938189 Flakmeister
Flakmeister's picture

Herman Cain was a clown.....

Thu, 12/01/2011 - 21:39 | 1936954 Flakmeister
Flakmeister's picture

Look it's a lot easier that way...

Seventy five percent of the Hedge would go apoplectic if the Repubs controlled the House and the Executive, I mean who could them blame then?

You will never see the bile aimed at Obama here for any Republican president....

---

For the comprehension impaired, the above message is not an endorsement of BHO....

 

Thu, 12/01/2011 - 22:38 | 1937092 High Plains Drifter
High Plains Drifter's picture

i have said i thought paul would run 3rd party. if this happens, then it could be interesting.  frankly i think obama is their man for another 4 years. i have thought that for a long time. 

Fri, 12/02/2011 - 10:15 | 1938181 Flakmeister
Flakmeister's picture

The only potential serious 3rd party candidate is Mayor Bloomberg... I can only imagine the love-fest his candidacy would create here at the hedge....

Thu, 12/01/2011 - 21:43 | 1936966 knukles
knukles's picture

S' ever so very true.
If any of the front runners on the GOP side get the nod, win or not, it'll still make no difference.
(further note below)

Thu, 12/01/2011 - 21:23 | 1936919 Mike Cowan
Mike Cowan's picture

Buck up

Thu, 12/01/2011 - 20:48 | 1936857 Rynak
Rynak's picture

One thing which i never see a "specific type of capitalists" explain, and also not see the article explain, is the entire premise of "potentially infinite reward".

To put it simply, reward for "success" (regardless of what kind of success) is taken as a maxime: The more you succeed, the more you are rewarded.

There is an entire array of issues with that premise. The two most significant are:

1. It ignores that REAL wealth, is finite over a given timespan. So an appeal to potentially infinite reward, actually means that one person may potentially own everything! Sorry, but WHAT THE FUCK?

2. It shoots itself in the head: The idea is that reward is neccessary, to motivate improvement - or at least striving for providing good offers. However, that reward - wealth - also can be used to make things happen... in other words, it equals power. Now, how can "potentially infinite power" be benefical to a competition of providing "good offers"? Phrased another way: Rewarding someone too much, can have the result of that someone no longer having to do, what he was rewarded for - in other words: He is DISCOURAGED from providing "good offers". It is the antithesis of what the so called "competition" is supposed to achieve!

What would be needed to satisfy the supposed premises of free market capitalism, is not blind reward of success. In fact, technically the ideal state of things would be, having a soft upper and soft lower limit to wealth, with competition and "inequality" being allowed in the remaining range. Because this way, newcomers continue to be able to enter the market, and veterans cannot fortify their position, and have to continue doing the good job that allowed them to rise to their position in the first place.

And let's not forget #1: Total wealth over a given timespan, is a limited ressource. So how can it be benefical to the majority of individuals.... or the collective as a whole.... if a small minority concentrate all wealth? Remind me again what was the purpose of competition? Was it NOT the improvement of civilization?

Thu, 12/01/2011 - 20:58 | 1936883 blunderdog
blunderdog's picture

No one's ever really refuted Marx's description of the "endgame" of capitalism.  When all the money in the world is controlled by a sufficiently small set of individuals, the system breaks.

Sure would be interesting to see if we reach that tipping point during my lifetime.

Thu, 12/01/2011 - 21:42 | 1936965 Rynak
Rynak's picture

Well, when one supports one extreme, it tends to be easy to point out how the opposite extreme will fail, because one sees its fundamental flaws.

Unfortunatelly, it also tends to make oneself blind towards how one's own biases will fail just as spectacularily.

Which is why i would neither call myself a capitalist, nor a communist - yet see benefits as well as flaws in both.

That's why i picked "infinite inequality.... err, i mean reward" as the topic of my post: I neither think, that total inequality makes sense, nor do i think that total equality makes sense.... actually, i don't even think that REALITY CAN be any of both things.... it always is a spectrum/range, with inequality inside that range, yet all the agents sharing the current bounds of the spectrum. Which is why i think the question should not be one of total inequality vs. total equality.... but rather be a question of which range to pick.... because it will always be a range that will be reality... and the only question is: What range would be efficient and sustainable?

Thu, 12/01/2011 - 22:17 | 1937040 blunderdog
blunderdog's picture

What range would be efficient and sustainable?

"Sustainable" for how long?

Someday this planet will no longer exist.  Will we have colonized the stars by then?  Will we achieve immortality as a species?

The discussion always has to be bounded, and once the boundaries are properly understood, it's not difficult to come up with some kind of solution space.  But I don't think any of this is on the table for discussion by the people who control the greatest swathes of wealth/power.

It doesn't take a rocket scientist to come up with visions of how to structure society "sustainably."  The trick is convincing the people who have devoted their lives to maintaining our current policies that this is something we should consider trying.

As the Boomers fall out of power, another generation with a different set of foundational experiences will go and make their own mistakes. 

Thu, 12/01/2011 - 23:40 | 1937135 Rynak
Rynak's picture

 

"Sustainable" for how long?

Someday this planet will no longer exist.  Will we have colonized the stars by then?  Will we achieve immortality as a species?

Erm, "slow down" in your timeline.... one step at a time. I'd say it is a reasonable assumption, that we will be in a better position to think about those things, AFTER we managed to actually sustainably do with what we have NOW?

I know, not really an answer to your question. But i do think that mentioning "being able to solve one-century issues" before attempting to solving "tens of million years issues" is a reasonable roadmap, isn't it?

But I don't think any of this is on the table for discussion by the people who control the greatest swathes of wealth/power.

And this is part of "one-century"-issues. Yes, it from a cultural-evolutionary POV is a VERY BIG one.... but hey, you brought the super-bigscale on the table, and on that scale, the current corrupted system really just is a tiny blip. Though, it IS a blip that may wipe out makind - which goes to show, how early on the list of "multi-million-year"-evolutionary roadmap of issues to solve, we are. Anyone talking about things like interstellar travel, is at best an optimist, and at worst simply recklessly ignorant and suffering from "alice in wonderland is actually true"-syndrome.

The stellar boundary is not a matter of tens of years, not a matter of a century..... it involves an evolutionary jump bigger than 99,99999999% of humans are capable of even grasping.

Bottom line: We're stuck right here. And we will not get away, before we manage to stay here sustainably and efficiently.... because the lessons learned to enable this, are the same lessons needed to enable interstellar travel (hint: Ressource usage efficiency, and sustainability, doesn't get any better than where we are now, before a lot of LIGHT YEARS. Conditions actually are HARSHER out there, not better!).

And contrary to some "transhumanists", i am VERY happy and relieved about this. I wouldn't want to be part of an unsustainable interstellar pandemic.

 

Fri, 12/02/2011 - 02:28 | 1937514 blunderdog
blunderdog's picture

How long a timeline are the folks who own most of the world's *paper* operating on?  A generation?  A lifetime?

Those folks are, thus far, the best manipulators of power.  Will the people who think in terms of centuries outmanuever those guys?

I doubt we'd recognize advancement towards a goal without a pretty good definition of it.  If you start trying to pin down a definition, it doesn't sound like something that's going to generate huge public action.  "Well, uh...we want to minimize energy expenditure per capita....uh...no....we want to ensure that all energy needs per capita are met as efficiently as possible given current and future resource constraints...uh...."

Seems to me we're at one of those stages of overspecialization.  A major dislocation of the business and/or social environment would permit entirely new organizational structures to form.  Barriers that exist to help preserve the current institutional powers are making many potentially productive approaches to life very difficult.  That won't last forever, primarily because most of the perceived barriers lack the power they're attributed.  Their "enforcement" comes only through submission.

Thu, 12/01/2011 - 20:50 | 1936870 Flakmeister
Flakmeister's picture

Competition was *never* about improving civilization...

Thu, 12/01/2011 - 21:07 | 1936888 Rynak
Rynak's picture

True, never was so far.

My point is, that it should be the only purpose of it, and the economic framework be designed on that assumption: That competition is not there for its own sake, or for some "darker" sake.... but instead only for encouraging improvement... and in cases where competition does not result in this, there is no need for "that kind" of competition.

I can understand and support the need for competition and non-equality simply to differentiate quality from crap... but i see little point in competition, in cases where it is not used for that purpose, or even results in the opposite.

Thu, 12/01/2011 - 21:31 | 1936933 Flakmeister
Flakmeister's picture

The real question is "How much is enough?" At what point does having more become counterproductive? I do not know the answer... I do think that if no one had more than say $500,000,000 the world would likely be a better place...

Thu, 12/01/2011 - 22:05 | 1937011 mayhem_korner
mayhem_korner's picture

 

 

Bookend your point at the other end of the spectrum.  At what point above what one absolutely needs is wealth productive?  What does one's life demand that is solved by a surplus of resources?

Thu, 12/01/2011 - 22:15 | 1937037 Flakmeister
Flakmeister's picture

Care to provide us with insight to this? You seem to be on a roll...

What is your point?   

Thu, 12/01/2011 - 22:46 | 1937109 mayhem_korner
mayhem_korner's picture

 

 

My point is and always has been that the obsession with wealth inequality is an aimless chase.  What is the value of any surplus of wealth?  Zilch.  We can have a reasoned discussion over what is surplus, and that's fine.  But apart from being able to claim some status, who cares if you have $5 or $500,000,000 in excess of what you need?  And if you have what you need, why does it matter if someone else has $500,000,000 in excess?

It's a simple question made really difficult because folks here think that this is about money.

 

Edit: You know I could give a rat's hole about your dagger tossing, but I do find that you have some interesting insights on occasion.

Fri, 12/02/2011 - 00:27 | 1937338 Flakmeister
Flakmeister's picture

I agree, no one should care about it, if it did not matter, but all the historical evidence points otherwise... 

You really should have read more history than fiction, and if it had to be be fiction, it should have been Steinbeck and Fitzgerald and not the fanciful musings like Rand.

Fri, 12/02/2011 - 09:35 | 1937960 mayhem_korner
mayhem_korner's picture

 

 

Actually, my preferred fiction reading is the works of man-made global warming proponents.  I keep that section close to the fireplace in case I run out of fiat to burn.  :D

Fri, 12/02/2011 - 10:13 | 1938167 Flakmeister
Flakmeister's picture

My, what a snappy comeback...

You do appreciate the old adage that "Power Corrupts" and you do understand that money is power... Even you can make the jump and complete the syllogism, or maybe I ask too much of you..

What works of fiction are you refering to? If they are indeed fiction where can I find reliable information?  

-----

I'll make a stab at your demographic:

White, self-proclaimed conservative, minimal post-secondary training in hard science and math, resident of a Red State, possibly Evangelical

How many of these do you fit?

Fri, 12/02/2011 - 13:00 | 1939006 mayhem_korner
mayhem_korner's picture

 

 

Well, you'd get a failing grade on your five-point quiz.  I make my living advising CXOs on the alignment of strategy with risk governance.  More than occasionally, it requires debunking some of the misapplication of stochastic processes in parametric and event risk estimation (hint: your #3 was what in the game of Battleship is called a 'miss'). 

Given on how far off you are, I suspect you are applying the same analytics in your demographic handicapping as you do when interpreting the man-made global warming data delusion.

Fri, 12/02/2011 - 13:12 | 1939059 Flakmeister
Flakmeister's picture

So you have an MBA then? Good for you....

Differential equations? Multivariate calculus?  The rudiments of calculus do not count in my books as that is basically High school... Any Physics, Chemistry Biology above the Intro level?  

Are you a Frequentist or a Bayesian? What do you think of copula models? What was the basics problem with CDOs from a risk managment perspective?

It was just a little quiz about your demographic....

Fri, 12/02/2011 - 13:23 | 1939099 mayhem_korner
mayhem_korner's picture

 

 

Did I say I have an MBA?  But I do love how you string together all those long, mathy words.  Do you beat your chest when you say them?  I know you're a mad scientist that gets his kicks assuming superiority about his credentials as if it's important.  I've worked with dozens like you - PhD's in stuff I can't pronounce, but the ability to convey insights stops when the R syntax gets outta line.  But all your potential crashes and burns when you apply it - what else explains your unfettered cowering to the global warming gods?  Keep researching that one, Flak, eventually it will be true!!! 

Fri, 12/02/2011 - 13:33 | 1939129 Flakmeister
Flakmeister's picture

Squirming are we?  Face it, you are out of your league...

You can't even answer questions about financial risk related stuff...  therefore I conclude you are a bullshitting blowhard....

I used to work with MBAs like you when I was on Wall St...  then maybe you don't even have a MBA? I gave you too much credit....

Fri, 12/02/2011 - 13:39 | 1939165 mayhem_korner
mayhem_korner's picture

 

 

I figured you'd eventually retreat behind a deflection.  Perhaps you're going to work on a nice diatribe on the cause of gravity.  Y'know, since you're a science guy! 

Fri, 12/02/2011 - 13:46 | 1939195 Flakmeister
Flakmeister's picture

I was asking you about AGW fiction and where you got the "real" info and somehow you deflected it to your "risk management consulting prowess" or some such... I then asked you about risk management matters and you avoided replying...

So my conclusion stands, you are a blowhard and full of shit...

And in case you have not been following, I am lot more than just a "science guy"..... I was de facto head of derivative modelling for a mono-line...

 

Fri, 12/02/2011 - 13:55 | 1939235 mayhem_korner
mayhem_korner's picture

So my conclusion stands.

 

That's you alright.  Whatever doesn't fit in your pre-conceived box is fallacy.  Always attempting to shift the burden to others to 'disprove' your religion.  I'll accept your conclusion, no questions asked.  Since it comes from the same guy who will stomp around in a fit of rage in defense of AGW. 

The only demographic on you about which I'm sure is that there is some deep insecurity that keeps that otherwise well-engineered brain of yours subservient to some unsatisfied, nine-year old inside.

Fri, 12/02/2011 - 14:00 | 1939252 Flakmeister
Flakmeister's picture

I'll let your response stand as a momument to clumsy obfuscation and a desire to avoid any discussion of substance. If you wish to have serious discussion we can pick it up in another thread... Ciao for niao....

Thu, 12/01/2011 - 23:06 | 1937158 Rynak
Rynak's picture

 

But apart from being able to claim some status, who cares if you have $5 or $500,000,000 in excess of what you need?

Multiply that, and subtract it from the FINITE total amount of wealth over a given timespan, and you may have the answer, for why earth works the way it works currently.

Money? No, indeed it isn't about money, and it never has been about money. Money simply is a collectively agreed system, to define what actually matters: POWER DISTRIBUTION, you f*cking moron.

Fri, 12/02/2011 - 00:09 | 1937279 mayhem_korner
mayhem_korner's picture

 

 

U short a few xanax doses there, bub?

Fri, 12/02/2011 - 00:21 | 1937310 Rynak
Rynak's picture

Look, i in my reply didn't just *only* use rethorics and ad hominem attacks, but complemented them with some actual arguments. Because, you know, it adds some "meat" to them? How about you do the same?

If you can, that is...

Thu, 12/01/2011 - 21:44 | 1936968 Rynak
Rynak's picture

Completely agree, and i do have nothing to add, that isn't just refinement that any reader should be able to do him/herself.

Thu, 12/01/2011 - 18:03 | 1936472 DOT
DOT's picture

uneven distribution ===> opportunity

Thu, 12/01/2011 - 17:51 | 1936441 MrBoompi
MrBoompi's picture

I don't want higher taxes on the rich because that would solve income inequality.  I want higher taxes on the wealthy to cover a higher % of the spending we do, reduce the budget deficit without having to cut Social Security or Medicare.

This system of taxation pushes captital into unproductive uses.  We have a severe problem with misallocation of capital.  Tax policy can help here.

Also, our military is used as the elite's world police force.  It's time the elites pay for their own protection, for their own materialism and for their own imperialism.  Stop putting this spending on the backs of the American people. 

Thu, 12/01/2011 - 17:32 | 1936378 TDoS
TDoS's picture

Premise insinuated by original post: A continuation of this economy is a desirable thing.  

The needs of the natural world outweigh the needs of any economic or political system.  This culture, and its economic and political outgrowths are unsustainable.  The unsustainable cannot be made sustainable.  Collapse is inevitable.  I'm more concerned with there being fish left in the oceans, drinkable water and breathable air that don't give me cancer, and functioning biomes.  

Capitalism must go.  Industrialism must go.  Hierarchy and the rewarding of sociopathic and psychopathic behavior must go. Personal identification with this culture must go.  The modern view of the self, must go.

Again, collapse is inevitable and imminent.  The alterations we make, the revolution in our minds must be aimed at not attempting to rebuild this psychotic system, driven by a death urge as it is.

Thu, 12/01/2011 - 20:38 | 1936842 johnnynaps
johnnynaps's picture

Agreed! The GDP model is developing debt slaves and turning our planet into a toxic dump! So sad that this won't change in time.

Thu, 12/01/2011 - 17:28 | 1936362 dcb
dcb's picture

I like yor stuff, and the logic is true, but I haven't seen much in the way of conservatives having a problem with inequality, some of the conservatives have troubles with corproate welfare, but the vast majoprity don't. hard to think of almost any us republicans except paul, huntsman says some things, and I think coburn just talked about welfare for the rich. Overall, I am afraid the conservatives seem to be more interested in serving their corporate masters than fixing the problem. But I say the same with democrats. It's not like obama has done what needs to be done either. In fact it seems both parties really aren't that concerned, except that it may leqad to violence. Of course that's not an issue since we can throw in jail without trial now as well

Thu, 12/01/2011 - 17:39 | 1936407 mayhem_korner
mayhem_korner's picture

Overall, I am afraid the conservatives seem to be more interested in serving their corporate masters than fixing the problem.

 

Other than your unverifiable "observations," what is your basis for these statements?  Tell us what it means to be a conservative.

Thu, 12/01/2011 - 17:18 | 1936320 MarcusLCrassus
MarcusLCrassus's picture

Yes, the 1% aren't rich enough.  Great argument there, Jorge. 

 

More tax cuts for the rich!  More austerity for the middle class!

Thu, 12/01/2011 - 17:16 | 1936317 NEOSERF
NEOSERF's picture

Financial industry has been a heads I win, tails you bail me out game of risk for years.  The game for most hedge funds and asset managers is to see how close you can fly to the sun without melting.  The ones that manage money for Main St are only motivated to get to be the ones that manage the elephants...they don't care about makings sure Suzy goes to college or Tom and Eleanor have a comfortable retirement.  The high flyers don't care because their clients are wealthy and by definition any big losses would have to be backstopped by their firm so the relationship and reputation doesn't suffer...

Thu, 12/01/2011 - 19:51 | 1936312 Future Jim
Future Jim's picture

GW, Regardless of what you claim as your motives/principles/values etc., we can all see the comments by your supporters, and we can see who they junk, and we can see how often they junk. Therefore, we know they are all on one side, and they like to shut down debate.

Thu, 12/01/2011 - 19:51 | 1936751 Flakmeister
Flakmeister's picture

I have been scrolling along minding my own business, taking the temperature so to speak, and this pops up...

I have seen nothing resembling a debate, well I suppose obliquely saying "Who is John Galt?" does count for something, but not much really.

Hey, whatever, maybe I missed something....

Thu, 12/01/2011 - 17:09 | 1936275 InconvenientCou...
InconvenientCounterParty's picture

specifically, "residual income inequality" is socially and economically destabilizing. 

residual income is the discretionary amount beyond simply meeting biological needs.

Humans (especially young ones) that are hungry, unsheltered and have no prospects for reproduction are more than destabilizing --they are explosive and cannibalistic.

The Earth will get to 5 Billion before it gets to 12.

 

 

Thu, 12/01/2011 - 16:55 | 1936227 tony bonn
tony bonn's picture

good rhetorical content but a bit turgid....

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