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Admiral: Indefinite Military Detention Of U.S. Citizens Is A Big Win For Terrorists: “The Enemy Is Just Laughing Over This"
Top counter-terrorism officials have said for years that indefinite detention increases terrorism.
As Huffington Post notes today, the indefinite detention bill passed by the Senate last week hands the terrorists a big win:
A measure that Congress will likely pass this week allowing indefinite detentions of Americans by the U.S. military will mark a significant loss in the war on terrorism, says a retired admiral who ran the Navy legal system.
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To Ret. Adm. John Hutson, who was Judge Advocate General of the Navy from 1997 to 2000 and is dean emeritus of the University of New Hampshire School of Law, the idea that the United States is chipping away at one of its fundamental principles of civilian law enforcement is a win for terrorists.
“The enemy is just laughing over this, because they will have gotten another victory,” Hutson told The Huffington Post. “There’ll be one more victory. There won’t be any bloodshed or immediate bloodshed, there’s not a big explosion, except in a metaphorical sense, but it is a victory nonetheless for the enemy. And it’s a self-inflicted wound.”
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Besides Hutson’s 28 years in the military justice system, he counted himself a conservative and Republican who “didn’t vote for a Democrat for dogcatcher” until he became worried about the direction of the country and backed Obama in 2008.
He thinks Obama should be very concerned about the detainee provisions, and explained why passage of them would be a victory for terrorists, who he argued cannot beat the United States on the battlefield. Instead, he said terrorists have to focus their attacks and violence on getting the United States to beat itself. And infringing on its own liberties is a step in that direction, he said.
“In this war, the enemy doesn’t have to win,” Hutson said. “They can cause us to do things we wouldn’t otherwise do, such as indefinite detentions, in the name of fighting a war,” he said, noting that the country has already subjected itself to invasive scrutiny that would not have been tolerated before Sept. 11, 2001.
In the case of the defense bill, the detention provisions would raise key questions about basic legal concepts that have long underpinned guarantees of freedom in America, including the habeas corpus right to contest being jailed and the Posse Comitatus Act passed after the Civil War to limit the military’s role in law enforcement.
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“As it turns out, our enemies’ greatest weakness is that they are bereft of ideals,” he added. “If we can maintain our ideals, our sense of justice, in the face of this, we can win. What the enemy, what the terrorists want to do — because they know they can’t beat us militarily — [is] they can try to change us. They can cause us to become more like them, and for them, that’s victory.”
The reason why, he argues, is that if the United States cannot portray itself as the holder of loftier ideals, then it is much harder to convince the rest of the world to stay on its side — and it’s harder to fight wars because even allies are less cooperative.
“Who’s going to surrender to the United Sates if they think they’re going to be detained indefinitely without a trial? Is anybody going to give up?” he asked. “Who’s going to say, ‘You know, maybe the United States isn’t as bad as we think it is, and maybe it’s al Qaeda and the Taliban who are the bad guys, and I’m going to side with the good guys?’”
***
“It’s going to cost lives.” he said, “it’s going to cost a way of life.”
Instead of doing the things which could actually make us safer, virtually everything the Bush and Obama administrations have done actually increases the risk of terrorism in the long-run .
But that's apparently dandy with our civilian leadership, because the so-called "war on terror" (which Jimmy Carter’s National Security Adviser calls “a mythical historical narrative”) was planned 20 years ago, and many in government consider terrorist strikes to be a “small price to pay for being a superpower”.
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Since Bush43, Obama, TSA, Pistole, DHS, FEMA all refuse to tell us who did 9-11, it is up to us to tell them. And say it so they know they are beaten and should go directly to their cells.
Since Bush43, Obama, TSA, Pistole, DHS, FEMA all refuse to tell us who did 9-11, this indefinite incarceration shuck is just one step beyond their prurient molestations at airports. Now they will be able to lock us up and send nude photos of us being tortured to the White House, like the FBI found Bush43 and Rumsfeld doing with abu Garaib prisoners.
'Fascism' is too gross to describe here. It is done with a loaded gun with the safety off.
When I read this, I asked myself, who are these "terrorists"? The term terrorist is a bogeyman to pass these police state/tyrannical laws. The true terrorists reside in DC.
Ahoy, how's that Obama vote workin' out for ya, Admiral?
RON PAUL '12
"The enemy is just laughing over this".
So is the devil!
Of course this was a win for the terrorists. After all, the biggest and baddest bunch of terrorists on earth are the administration and congress. Everyone who voted for this bill should be tried and hung for treason and crimes against humanity.
Another paranoid rant by the communist George Washington.
Move to North Korea and take isolationist Ron Paul with you, you shit-eating maggot.
I'm getting tired of having to read your filthy crap, your nothing but a douchebag troll with nothing of value add to the conversation.
You lower the IQ of the entire forum, what are you like a 90?
Move on to a forum where Palin and Gingrich can appreciate your posts.
Another hate filled rant by the openly racist, classist, genocidal Smokey1.
So.. GW is a communist for bringing a Constitutional crisis to the forefront? Do you work for Eric Holder or something?
You don't have to answer that...
I smell something... bait?
No, just a smokey pile of shit in a smouldering paper bag lying on the ground at the 'short' bus stop. In the voice of June Cleaver "Someone's off their meds again!..."
as one may have noticed, being a super power means
having your laws written by terrorists. no?
think about it. look at the facts and the history,
they don't lie.
So, George, how many of these terrorists are there who are laughing? 100's? 1000's? Millions? What do YOU think?
if the enemy is laughing over this he is a complete fucktard.
the whole point of the perpetual war on terror was to nazify amerika. the rockefeller-mic-yale-cia has been working on this for years.
the terrorists are cia operatives. the cia trumps up an incident periodically to keep everyone afraid and compliant.
fuck the cia, rockefellers, and congress.
Would you happen to know how a guy could give more than one thumbs up on this site? Because you deserve at least 666 of 'em for that accurate comment. You're bang on the money.
Paranoid schizophrenic fool.
Get help.
and we've got GUNZ TOO!!!
Took a new friend from the UK to the gun range last weekend to shoot some guns for his first time. He said he went to Wal-Mart when he got off the plane and bought a "pocket knife" because he heard you could carry them here. I showed him a few real knives that I had (the one he bought was like .99)
He said in London if you walk around with a bat you get arrested and with a knife you usually go to jail or prison in some cases.
I'm deeply saddened by not only today, but really the past several decades of my countries true history. Today is what I would call the icing on the shitstorm cake.
I just hope when they try and make owning a gun illegal we all open carry and remind them whose country they're in.
Smokey1, nobody likes your hate filled bullshit get the fuck out of here.
This silly costumed boat-chappie misses the main logical point: if there was such a thing as al Qaeda, one of the following high-impact events would have occurred already (there are a dozen others I could name, but the three listed below give a taste: make it a game - see how many more you can think up in ten minutes)...
(1) phylloxera in the Napa Valley and other wine growing areas of the west: Burgundy and Bordeaux; the Barossa, Hunter, Clare valley in Australia; Marlborough in NZ... and so forth. Cost to the wine industry: BILLIONS. Cost to carry it out: $20 per site, maximum (bus tickets).
(2) systematic interference with control systems - attacks on power plants, water (and waste-water) treatment facilities, internet infrastructure. Cost to the victims: BILLIONS. Cost to carry it out: $25k per site, tops.
(3) the assassination of AT LEAST ONE of the pseudo-intellectuals that make up the 'vanguard of the neocons". NONE of them have security details, they all lead relatively wide open public lives - and yet none of them are dead. Cost to the victims: plenty. Cost to carry out: bus fare.
Conan Doyle had Holmes say something along the lines of: "eliminate the impossible, and whatever remains, however improbable, is the truth (or something like that... I say, pass me my opium pipe, would you Watson old boy?)".
I'm paraphrasing, obviously, but the main point is this. The supposed clandestine network of global terrorists has failed to spot literally hundreds of opportunities to inflict vast asymmetric damage, at very low cost, on those it supposedly 'hates'. It continues to fail - or refuse - to pick the low-hanging fruit, when to do so would have added significantly to its supposed aims: the State apparatuses in each target zone would ramp up, the ability to prosecute invasions would be (slightly) weaked due to manpower requirements...
(Remember: according to the US government narrative, al Qaeda's supposed aims have nothing to do with getting rid of invaders in Palestine, or getting Crusaders out of Saudi Arabia - and they mimic the US government's lack of qualms about killing innocents. In any case - in the three options listed above, there is almost no need for loss of any innocent life.)
The highest-probability explanation for this is not "well they're dumb ragheads who like explosions". There are plenty of non-dumb folks in these supposed terror networks.
No - the higest-probability explanation is that the networks are a fiction: the organisations that tout their commitment to such-and-so a cause are honeypots or stings, and the rest is simply made up, à la Hill & Knowlton's "babies from incubators" chicanery from 1991 (and the "Huns crucifying Belgians" from WWI, and the "Remember Pearl Harbour/the Maine/the Lusitania/the Maddox" tripe from various other wars in which the governing parasite class wished to involve themselves).
Great points. al-Qaida is definitely fullfilling the Administration's need of an enemy to justify their expanding "war on terror". Money 4 Nothing, below, refers to a whitehouse.gov release of Obama's 'Strategic Implementation Plan for Empowering Local Partners to Prevent Violent Extremism in the United States' which uses al-Qaida again, as reason the Plan is needed to prevent "violent extremism" (repeated 86 times in the 23 page Plan) from influencing everyone in the U.S.
The Obama administration should do something about it? The Obama administration is responsible for the language change that extends the provisions to US citizens and legal residents.
Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?
You're getting closer George. Do keep at it
getting closer . . . to wot. and by actually here quoting bluffho, their last lowest whore
as close to preposterous as excruciation, soon after 9/11 . . . but a goddamn decade later
__unfuckingbearable
.
yet again, and again, they got you talkin-to-the-hand
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DwDbd4jQpkA&feature=related
The left right paradigm is indeed alive and well and destroying us as a whole each and every second that passes.
When will everyone start to figure out they're ALL on the same side of leaching our civil liberties away?
Not soon enough for my tastes.
"Free Country" is a sick, sad joke.
Don't ever forget it was George Fuckup Bush(S), Donald Fuckup Rumsfeld, and Dick Fuckup Cheney that put the human condition last on the priority for teddy bear terror.
TSA watches your pussy for money -- what you gonna do, pissboy!
And with that I rest my case, another useful idiot playing the left right blame game.
It all depends on the definition of a terrorist. "A patriot must always be prepared to defend his country against his government." That makes all patriots terrorists according to the government at least.
If people are stupid enough to believe that ANY war serves their best interest and that fighting another people is good, just or honorable, then they have paid very little attention to history and who the winners and losers are in EVERY war.
Wars have always been and always will be between the elitists and the people. Everything else is a lie, an excuse and rationalization to convince those with less information (including the vaunted military) that fighting is righteous, honorable and necessary.... Suckers.
Now, man may have some inner drive toward self-destruction and violence. And, to keep the opportunity alive for murder, mayhem, theft and fraud ... those people with this drive, such as the so called leaders and military who seemingly enjoy killing innocent people, who they pretend to protect, need to convince people to ignore the obvious lies and believe that there are real enemies and there is some kind of warped honor in murdering them.
It should be obvious to all by now that the people who run the US government are evil and are prosecuting a war of terror against the people who they say they serve and protect. They seemingly do not care that their tactics alienate pretty much everyone and creates great hatred of the government and military. My assumption is that their goal is to achieve exactly that hatred as one of several mechainsm to destroy the country and people who have made their reign of terror possible.
This like most things is seemingly just a cyclical consequence of man's immaturity.
It takes a while to get used to the idea because we all grew up thinking we were free and thinking our leaders we looking out for our best interests. We also grew up thinking Wall Street was just a small and honest part of the American fabric. Reality is starting to set in for everyone now and most are going to accept their new status as POW soon enough. The ones who don't might need torture but I think they can do that to us too now. Remember when you stand up and take your hat off and face Old Glory for the National Anthem next time just what it's all about...A system of 2 classes.(small weathy banker class that makes the rules that only apply to the 99% and now with the ability to imprison and torture them to keep them in line instead of just the privilage of printing their money out of thin air.)
We tend to become that which we most fear, if we allow fear to rule out thinking.
Refusing to fight properly on the battlefield has brought the war home. By fight properly I mean stern warnings quickly followed by unleashed airpower, with little regard for collateral damage after normal targeting of enemy positions. Light forrtprints and heavy bombs.
Pakistan would be a good place to start, and eventually Iran will be the lynchpin.
Or, first target is your head and your house, you bigoted blood-letting scumbag. Return immediately to Faux News blog.
In defense of Meremortal, I think what he is trying to say is, if you delare war on another Country, make sure it's a war with an end game not an occupancy and not fought in political correctness. I can tell you stories from the feild about that but not now.
If you screw with the USA under the violations mentioned, smoke them off the face of the earth and have just enough time to get home for dinner, we would have alot less enemies, not fighting a long protracted "war" against terror against an uninformed army that every civilian overseas falls under suspect.
In respect to understanding your point, we should not be at war with any Country unless our Soveriegn soil has been assaulted or our Bill of Rights has been defiled period. Hows that whole alliance with Afghanistan working out now? Bin Laden was from Afghanistan, but the 9/11 perpetrators were all from Saudi Arabia, go figure?
So WTF were we dispatched to Iraq, Syria, Libya, and bombed Yemen etc? Totally unconstitutional and galvanizes the war on terror to be a fluid, borderless enemy (boogie man) that just hapens to travel to the Countries that we are trying to make regime changes in?
The Military Industrial complex makes more money than our Government collects in tax reciepts, now you know the truth.
It's all about power and the control of resources period, Al CIAda is a convienient enemy to conjure to purpetuate occupancy of other Soverign Nations.
I have to hope your joking, because it's difficult to believe anyone so stupid could operate a computer.
Then again, maybe someone turned it on for you.
Turns those flags upside down people. I hope to be a witness to the criminal heads of congress rolling into baskets as this shit begins to unravel in their face. The government does NOT give us our rights. They exist to secure those rights, which are NOT theirs to give or take. Do you understand the word "INALIENABLE" motherfuckers? When a government becomes the predator of these rights, that government must die and will die. It is ultimately the tale of history. Freedom can be stunned and crushed for a time but it can not be vanquished as long as there are minds that can reason. Even if Freedom can only be found in the mind, she still exists and lies in wait to rise and be heard.
TorchFire
Thru the Clinton years, and now the Obama years, I always fly the flag upside down, and I put flag stamps on USPS mail upside down also.
WE ARE under SEVERE DURESS.........................
In Texas now, you cannot buy 2 rifles at one time, w/out ATF transfer papers being filed(because we are Border state to the Mexican Fook Off drug cartels).One more right down the tubes.
You know if you can buy 5 they will wind up w/the cartels, but only if you BEAT the DOJ to it first.They are so transparent it's sickening,and we allow them to get by with it.
Operatio Fast n Furious, head bastard still has his job, and has dimentia when asked about it by Congress.
Rat on.............crooked, all of them are criminals.
Thru the Clinton years, and now the Obama years, I always fly the flag upside down, and I put flag stamps on USPS mail upside down also.
But not during the Dubya years? Why is that? You a Republican partisan, or you have specific reasons?
2003 was when I was most impressed by how effectively our police-state had been put into action. We had literal PENS set up for people to protest the invasion of Iraq at the time. Not that it was done by Dubya's administration--just that it it happened in a matter of days.
I was gobsmacked. People actually voluntarily went to caged-in areas set up by the police to express their disapproval of the President's policy. (This was obviously encouraged by the rifle-bearing soliders on the streets and transit stations at the time.)
I realized it was all over at that point. If you aren't prepared to assert your rights to free assembly or speech, you don't really have any.
I agree with you, but please look up unalienable verses inalienable. Our rights are UNalienable, not inalienable. They are not lienable in other words. Government would have you think they are inalienable, for then it can take them away through law.
Yes God grants mankind unalienable rights but our as outlined by our consent to be governed were established as inalienable. As I understand it, these inalienable rights can only be taken by consent (voluntarily given up)...whereas unalienable righst can not be taken under any circumstances. Perhaps I should have used unalienable for my little rant, but I wanted to highlight the retrade we have been dealt via the duplicitous bastards that are stealing our country. Thanks for expanding on the concept and bringing attention to the higher rights as being unalienable.
You're both right and wrong. Both un- and in-alienable mean that a thing (be it property, or a right) can NOT be alienated, which simply means the transfer of ownership or control to a third party.
In theory (and in law, to the extent that that matters, which it doesn't) a thing is inalienable if it cannot be transferred to a third party EVEN WITH THE CONSENT OF THE RIGHTFUL HOLDER. (Yes, I deliberately bold-italic-underline-allcapped that motherfucker).
From memory I think J.S. Mill discusses the idea of inalienability (indirectly) in "On Liberty", when putting forward the hypothesis that a free man is not in fact free to do some things - for example he may not sell himself into life-long chattel slavery, because to do that is alienating himself from his rights.
Unalienable is simply an archaic form of inalienable.
Terrorism was a feeble excuse. The elite have been trying to pass laws like this for decades. They just finally managed to find a way to get away with it. To be really honest, I'm starting to suspect that the conspiracy theorists are right and that the whole thing was a false flag attack.
If you want some financial freedom, and to get away from this corruption, read:
http://www.amazon.com/Simple-Wealth-Mr-Andrew-Costello/dp/1463523017/ref
I'm starting to suspect that the conspiracy theorists are right and that the whole thing was a false flag attack.
Whether it was or not, the results are the same: Tyranny.
I believe this Administration is a False Flag, and I believe Obama himself is a conspiricy theory wrapped in an enigma. jus sayin.
This is comming from somebody who worked on his Campaign, my eyes are open now.
When this "admiral" uses terms like "enemy" and "terrorists", as far as I'm concerned he is referring to our own so-called leaders, both here and abroad (UK, Israel, etc.), not to a bunch of worthless arabs squatting in the desert thousands of miles away.
I think we all agree on that. The real enemy is right here in Washington DC and the boardrooms of every big Corporation out there.
Read:
http://www.amazon.com/Simple-Wealth-Mr-Andrew-Costello/dp/1463523017/ref
Yep, right on
The real enemy is right here in Washington DC and the boardrooms of every big Corporation out there.
Amen and amen!
I know many people who don't believe the "official" story about what happened on 9/11, but it seems our "leaders" in DC are tone deaf to anything but the "spin". IMHO the "War on Terror" is very similar to the "War on Drugs". They are wars without definition and thereby un-winable. They are wars based on lies.
We need to get our priorities straight in America and real fucking soon, otherwise what's left of this country will soon be a shambles.