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Admiral: Indefinite Military Detention Of U.S. Citizens Is A Big Win For Terrorists: “The Enemy Is Just Laughing Over This"
Top counter-terrorism officials have said for years that indefinite detention increases terrorism.
As Huffington Post notes today, the indefinite detention bill passed by the Senate last week hands the terrorists a big win:
A measure that Congress will likely pass this week allowing indefinite detentions of Americans by the U.S. military will mark a significant loss in the war on terrorism, says a retired admiral who ran the Navy legal system.
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To Ret. Adm. John Hutson, who was Judge Advocate General of the Navy from 1997 to 2000 and is dean emeritus of the University of New Hampshire School of Law, the idea that the United States is chipping away at one of its fundamental principles of civilian law enforcement is a win for terrorists.
“The enemy is just laughing over this, because they will have gotten another victory,” Hutson told The Huffington Post. “There’ll be one more victory. There won’t be any bloodshed or immediate bloodshed, there’s not a big explosion, except in a metaphorical sense, but it is a victory nonetheless for the enemy. And it’s a self-inflicted wound.”
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Besides Hutson’s 28 years in the military justice system, he counted himself a conservative and Republican who “didn’t vote for a Democrat for dogcatcher” until he became worried about the direction of the country and backed Obama in 2008.
He thinks Obama should be very concerned about the detainee provisions, and explained why passage of them would be a victory for terrorists, who he argued cannot beat the United States on the battlefield. Instead, he said terrorists have to focus their attacks and violence on getting the United States to beat itself. And infringing on its own liberties is a step in that direction, he said.
“In this war, the enemy doesn’t have to win,” Hutson said. “They can cause us to do things we wouldn’t otherwise do, such as indefinite detentions, in the name of fighting a war,” he said, noting that the country has already subjected itself to invasive scrutiny that would not have been tolerated before Sept. 11, 2001.
In the case of the defense bill, the detention provisions would raise key questions about basic legal concepts that have long underpinned guarantees of freedom in America, including the habeas corpus right to contest being jailed and the Posse Comitatus Act passed after the Civil War to limit the military’s role in law enforcement.
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“As it turns out, our enemies’ greatest weakness is that they are bereft of ideals,” he added. “If we can maintain our ideals, our sense of justice, in the face of this, we can win. What the enemy, what the terrorists want to do — because they know they can’t beat us militarily — [is] they can try to change us. They can cause us to become more like them, and for them, that’s victory.”
The reason why, he argues, is that if the United States cannot portray itself as the holder of loftier ideals, then it is much harder to convince the rest of the world to stay on its side — and it’s harder to fight wars because even allies are less cooperative.
“Who’s going to surrender to the United Sates if they think they’re going to be detained indefinitely without a trial? Is anybody going to give up?” he asked. “Who’s going to say, ‘You know, maybe the United States isn’t as bad as we think it is, and maybe it’s al Qaeda and the Taliban who are the bad guys, and I’m going to side with the good guys?’”
***
“It’s going to cost lives.” he said, “it’s going to cost a way of life.”
Instead of doing the things which could actually make us safer, virtually everything the Bush and Obama administrations have done actually increases the risk of terrorism in the long-run .
But that's apparently dandy with our civilian leadership, because the so-called "war on terror" (which Jimmy Carter’s National Security Adviser calls “a mythical historical narrative”) was planned 20 years ago, and many in government consider terrorist strikes to be a “small price to pay for being a superpower”.
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FRAUD, people ! MASSIVE DELIBERATE PURPOSEFULL PRE-PLANNED EVIL FRAUD, gentlemen . WHEN, OH WHEN, WILL THE FRAUD BE EXPOSED so that the general public understands ! NAME NAMES ! a good start is the name ROBERT RUBIN ..........
fuckers ! this is the maddest i've ever been in my entire life, i'm not ignorant, i'm no patsy, i'm NOT A NINNEY anymore !!!! bring it on, i'm ready for it. & yes, i'm an old lady !
It's time for my signature statement again : My Grandma Jo (born 1915, god rest her soul) told us kids repeatedly, ' NEVER GO INTO THE STOCK MARKET & DO NOT TRUST THE GOVERNMENT. '
Sounds like an outbreak of bellingerent speech right there ...
You are the best lynnybee.
You're not the only one that is pissed lynny, righteous indignation is the appropriate response for anyone with an IQ higher than room temperature.
Read this PDF. This isn't about Al Quada, it's about installing a total Police State aginst anyone with decention towards the dictator.. err I mean Administration. Makes the above look like a walk in the park.
http://www.whitehouse.gov/sites/default/files/sip-final.pdf
So many imaginary enemies.
Sounds like they are getting ready to throw a party.
Man are these predators transparent and egregious. Just read the very first sentence in the first heading for example:
As a government, we are working to prevent all types of extremism that leads to violence...
For anyone who knows how to read, this sentence expresses many terrible and obscene things. For example, in this sentence, the term "extremism" clearly means "ideas". This is obvious because clearly ideas lead to violence (both justified and unjustified violence (self-defense and aggression)). Therefore, this document explicitly states they intend to destroy people for holding... or even considering... certain ideas. What ideas? Any ideas they don't like.
?So not only are they explicitly anti-free-speech, they are also explicitly anti-thought. After all, we cannot even have a reason to reject an idea until we have understood and considered the idea, and we cannot speak before we formulate a thought to express.
Anyone with even the slightest iota of alertness will recognize that this document itself is precisely what they claim to abhor and prevent. This document is a set of ideas, thoughts, intentions and plans for the administration and federal government of the USSA to comit violence upon the population. In other words, this document is the most egregious example of what the document itself claims they wish to destroy!
?These people are so completely evil, they don't even realize how utterly and totally they prove themselves to be the most vile predators in history.
The government is totally controlled by extremist predatory psychopaths and sociopaths. These predators are so over-the-top SICK that endless papers will be written someday... IF they don't manage to implement their plans to utterly enslave and destroy mankind.
I noticed, per the MSM, "Zionist" extremisim does not exist, such as the Lubavitch variety that prevents women from driving cars in ultra-liberal NYC. How is such a religion not anti-female to the core? Is the "Judaic" youth portrayed in this video not extremist?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M539PgDjbas&feature=player_embedded
How is George Bush's Doctrine (pre-emptive military attack) not extremist? How is it not extremist to teach, believe, and state to the world that "God gave us a geographic piece of planet earth", thereby no one else may occupy it? How is it not purely and only racist to teach you are a "chosenite" because of your very physical DNA? How are Jewish scientists not laughed off the face of the earth publishing "scientific" data tracing their DNA back to Abraham (as happens to anyone promoting the hateful "creationism")? How is it not extremist that only a few percent of the Kinneset are orthodox Judaics yet virtually every law passed in Israel meets all their religious dogmatic standards?
I wait patiently for the anti-semite slur.
That is some sick, scary shit!
Do you guys remember the "Trial of the century" Khalid Shaikh Mohammed mastermind? That got rushed off to a military tribunal because much like Osama bin laden, he didn't mastermind anything. It's all made up.
Americans are going to have to wake up sooner or later to the fact that 9/11 was an inside job. “a mythical historical narrative” is putting it lightly.
How do you expect justice for financial looting and gutting of the country and ignore the 10 years of "operation privatize and loot" by war criminals in the pentagon? You can't.
This country is fucked and the armed forces are a fucken disgrace.
The important question that remains to be answered is whether the rank and file of the military who haven't understood what's been happening will turn against their masters when they are ordered to enslave, imprison and slaughter their neighbors, friends and family.
GENTIBUS EST ALIIS TELLUS DATA LIMITE CERTO; ROMANAE SPATIUM EST URBIS ET ORBIS IDEM. The territory alotted to other nations has a definite limit, but the whole world is the domain of the City of Rome. --Ovid, Fasti, 2:683-4===By this point in American history it has to be obvious that the magistrates are corrupt; the law is neglected; and Imperium is everything. We can discuss if it was in 1871 and the founding of the Corporate UNITED STATES, but most obviously it was accelerated by September 11. I am of the opinion that the grinding of liberty will continue until the camps are full and the nuclear wars are won. There is no turning back from Empire. Men who love property over liberty will have neither.
The histories of countries and individuals clearly show how quickly rags can be turned to riches given honesty, liberty and determined effort in the short span of only years. Any individual who understands this values liberty above property, and liberty above all else. Wake up people!
Anyone that doesn't that terrorism is a bunch of fake ass hoopla is simply not paying attention or a US fan boy.
The irony of it all is that you are more likely o be killed by Law Enforcers than a god damn terrorist.
I think that says it all right there.
you are more likely o be killed by Law Enforcers than a god damn terrorist.
By FAR!!!
someone pointed out a number of years ago that your odds of being killed by lightning exceed your chance that a terrorist does the same.
Yes but that doesn't mean it's not a good idea to spend several trillion dollars annually on "defense" in support of liberty, democracy, and mom's apple pie!
I have been struck by lightning, and lived to be interviewed by National Weather Service. (It really sucks and it did not give me supernatural powers) I have yet to be attacked by a terrorist, foreign or domestic.
Ret. Adm. John Hutson seems to have missed Gitmo, renditions, Abu Grahb, Patriot Act etc...not only 'terrorists' laugh at US hubris and over-confidence. Emperor of Empires may be well counselled to check his clothes Fuhrer...oops, meant further...
Our short sighted, immoral, bought and paid for leaders have facilitated the demise of a once great country where each generation was hopeful that their children would lead a better life; unfortunately, all they have to look forward to is being watched and monitored continuously by big brother, further loss of freedom of speech and protest, exorbitant education costs for lower paying jobs, higher taxes and debt enslavement. Do we really want to bring more children into this world?!
... and the enemy was us ...
terrorist attacks within the borders? Less than one a year against 300 million?
I thought Rand Paul put an end to this shit by bringing accountability into the situation by demanding a recorded vote.....at which point Both McCain and Levin voted against the measure (which failed to pass by a 41-59 margin).
http://thehill.com/blogs/floor-action/senate/196943-paul-calls-senates-bluff-kills-terrorist-detainee-amendment-
Hey loony, your link is 11 days old and you just wasted two minutes of my life that I will never get back! Here is an article from yesterday:
Suspend habeas corpus and enact martial law?
By Chris Powell
Published: Monday, December 12, 2011 1:40 PM EST
Americans seem ready to forfeit their most basic civil liberty -- actually, all their civil liberties -- without a whimper.
By a vote of 93-7 the Senate this month approved a military appropriations bill empowering the government to designate any U.S. citizen within the country as a terrorist and to have the military hold him indefinitely without trial and without the right to habeas corpus, the right to be brought before a court for a judgment on the legality of one's imprisonment.
In effect the legislation is a declaration of martial law throughout the country.
President Obama is threatening to veto the legislation but not so much for its suspension of habeas corpus. Rather, the bill is objectionable to the president because it would prevent the government from transferring terrorism suspects from the prison at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba, to installations in the United States, even for trial.
http://www.journalinquirer.com/articles/2011/12/12/chris_powell/doc4ee6179b321e6127406122.txt
What is going on with the congress? How can these supposed patriots vote away our basic liberities? I just can't seem to wrap my head around this, it seems so bizarre and absurd...Yes, you can say they're bought and paid for, corrupt, etc, but still, there is just something so over-the-top, so unprecedented, so tortuously twisted about this action, it seems to defy pat explanations, such as "they are corrupt." There has to be something behind this that we are simply not seeing--we need to use our imaginations, stop the facile accusations and name calling even if they are justified and warranted, and dig deeper to explain this. This is not like Mussolini's black shirts marching into the Senate and breaking heads--this is worse. What is the magnet that polarizes and aligns these ciphers into an act of wholesale evil?
Carefully read the text of this twenty year old law:
http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/z?c102:H.J.RES.104.ENR:
Nothing can make it more clear that this nation is in lock-step with Rabbinical Talmudism. The Talmud states that every goyim deserves only death. Anyone who does not worship at the feet of a Rabbi (especially Christians) is an idoloater and deserves death (in fact, consistent with this, the Rabbis to this day state that Hitler did god's work because the common Jews disobeyd the Rabbis...the Rabbis persecute first and foremost the common Judaic).
The Rabbis and those they command (neo-cons, Zionist Christian slaves, etc.) may spare the life of any Judaic who worships at their feet.
Judasim as it is currently taught by the Rabbis must be exposed and eradicated. Not the people: the philosophy, the religion, the teachings.
The members of congress are self-conscious elitist predators. What else do you need to understand? What you don't understand, perhaps, is that potential candidates are thwarted or supported (with money and media praise) early in the election process by the predators-that-be to assure that everyone individuals can vote for is already corrupt, or easily corruptable. That's what leads to the "unbelievable" situation the people of the USSA are in.
It still must be reconciled with the other garbage versions and signed into law by the POTUS.........which has not happened yet?
Edit: Spending two minutes of your time in order to disseminate the truth is not a waste my friend. It is the truth which I seek, every ugly root of it............
In my best James Brown backup singer voice.. "YEAH!"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4qLPdI7bZnI
No, he tried, but failed. The bill has now been passd the the joint Senate-House conference committee.
how could we miss that, the press covers everything that guy does.
I'm a VERY conservative Republican. If Obama vetos the most egregious aspects of this abomination, on my word of honor, I'll vote for him in 2012. Any and all who voted for it, are traitors to their heritage and destroyers of their posterity. May history record them as such.
Gringo Viejo
If Obama vetos the most egregious aspects of this abomination, on my word of honor, I'll vote for him in 2012.
Why?, the lying SOB will just turn around and resign it ,JUST Like he did the Patriot Act.
WHEN are you pepople goiing to figure how this game is played?.
Makes me want to pull out my fricking hair.Or set it on fire.
OUR GOVT, and Politicians, 90% are all part of the GAME.
WTFU!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Forget about voting if this get's signed into law, pick up a weapon and stand a post as perscribed by our forefathers written in the Constitution.
"They who would give up an essential liberty for temporary security, deserve neither liberty or security."
-Benjamin Franklin
"The Constitution is not an instrument for the government to restrain the people, it is an instrument for the people to restrain the government -- lest it come to dominate our lives and interests."
-Patrick Henry
I volunteer!
can I get a sign that says "here lil piggy.. here lil piggy!"
It's about standing a Post for your Country and Defending it from all Enemies Foreign or Domestic.
Carl Levin said that the language protecting US citizens from detention was removed from the bill at Obama's request.
you should consider the fact that only 7 members of senate voted against this bill. The point being that both Democrats and Republicans are the same shit.
and the breakdown of who voted against is as follows: 4 Repubs. 2 Dems. 1 indy.
here's the full list of traitors: http://www.senate.gov/legislative/LIS/roll_call_lists/roll_call_vote_cfm...
http://www.change.org/petitions/stop-ndaa-section-1031-citizen-imprisonment-law-today
Please sign and pass around to your friends who do NOT! like the idea of Americans going to Jail Forever without a trail. (not that the trail helps much, LOL!)
Obama says he'll veto the bill but POTUS already believes he has this power. Remember the drone attack that killed the #2 Al queda guy a few weeks back? He was an American Citizen. Not saying he wasn't a bad guy, but we've really crossed the Rubicon when actions like this are taken. Obama doesn't want the language in this bill because then it might be easier to fight it. He thinks the executive order enabling him to do this is harder to fight against. At least that's how I understand it.
And what ever happened to CON-gress "declaration of war"? Haven't we fought about 7 of these so-called "wars" over the past ten years with no such declaration? I for one don't agree with it. We need to close about 2/3rds of our foreign bases and stop trying to bully the world into our "form of democracy" (which is naked fascism).
Obama will not veto the bill ... he is the one who REQUESTED it:
Thanks for posting this GW. Very nice rebuttal.
Obama is certainly behaving as if he has those powers by executive order, so in a sense this is a stupid political move because it puts all the politicians on the record as to how they interpret [read: violate] the Constitution. Almost all of them are on the wrong side of history on this one, as they were with the Patriot Act. To my mind, and my reading of the Constitution, most of the people who voted for this bill are clearly traitors in that they have violated their sacred oath to protect and defend the Constitution of the United States. That they are members of Congress or even the President doesn't exempt them from charges of being traitors, although they seem to think it makes them untouchable. I guess oaths just aren't what they used to be.
Thanks George.. I spread it as best I can.. Good Work.. as usual.. we are spoiled thanks to you!
F-ing disgusting!
A lot of us may end up going on the same FEMA camping trip. At least we will be in good company.
Call me idealistic, but I don't see the military going along with the unconstitutional detention of millions of American citizens, for having the audacity to speak truth to power.
Of course the military will go along with anything (except cutting its own budget). Like Wehrmacht: "Befehl ist Befehl" - Indeed, he regular Wehrmacht murdered more "untermenschen" than the SS did.
documentation?
no exit
It's almost as if...they create terrorism to forward an agenda, grow government, and reduce rights. Who are the bad guys again?
Those guy's in the airplanes on 9/11. And the tall guy walking around the Afghanistan desert with an IV pole.
Or was it the Group that financed them? I forget...
Iraq liberated, (via regime change) America incarcerated (via regime change) Go figure?
why do they (CONgress, .gov) hate us?
they (CONgress, .gov) hate us because of our freedom; because we live in a deMOCKracy.