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On Capital Flight and Forced Repatriation

Bruce Krasting's picture





 

There are some folks in America who will wake up this morning and read that Jefferies has been sued for its role in a bond deal with MF Global and they will vote with their feet (Zero hedge Link). They will close their accounts with JEF and move to a safer address. That’s an example of capital flight.

There are people all over the globe who have looked at the rapid un-gluing of the financial system and have bought gold as a safe haven. That’s another example of capital flight.

Every time that something stupid crosses the tape from one of the EU deep thinkers the US bond market catches a bid. Yet another example of capital flight.

I could go on for a bit with this. There are dozens of examples. All around the globe one can find evidence that money is moving around with the sole purpose of finding someplace “safe”.

Capital flight is a perfectly logical consequence in today’s world. Barely a day passes where we are not reminded that nothing is safe any more. Not our currencies, not our equities, not our bonds and certainly not our banks/brokers.

In Greece there are many example where capital flight is undermining stability. The most obvious is the capital flight from the Greek banks that has taken place over the past few years. This flow of money is also perfectly logical. There are many risks of leaving money in a Greek bank:

-The Bank could default. The principal in the account is at risk.The guarantee (up to E100k) is from the government. What's that worth?

-The government could default. The chaos that would follow would result in a freeze of all bank balances.

-The government could announce one morning that it was re-establishing the Drachma. This would mean that any Euros in a Greek bank would be automatically converted into Drachmas at the old official rate. The value of those Drachma would be worth half (or less) as a result of the immediate devaluation that would occur.

Put yourself in the mind of a Greek who had some savings in a local bank. What would you do? You would do whatever you could to get your money to high ground. It would be perfectly reasonable for you to do that. And that is exactly what the Greeks have done. They’ve moved billions of Euros to Swiss banks in an effort to preserve their wealth. In the process they have crippled the Greek banks and have added to the downward spiral in Greece and the rest of the EU.

There was (IMHO) a very significant development on this front last week. A move is being made in Brussels to “force” the Swiss government/banks to transfer all of the assets of Greek citizens back to the Greek banks. For a Greek this means that your money is hostage. It has been functionally expropriated. It will be transferred into a banking system that is fraught with risk. Some portion of the money that goes back to Greece will certainly be lost.

I have talked with some who I know in Athens. They are out of their minds with this development.

Some thoughts/quotes:

- BRUSSELS—The European Commission is helping Greece negotiate an agreement with Switzerland to repatriate as much as $81 billion believed to be hidden in Swiss bank accounts, a high level European Union executive body official said Nov. 17.

$81 billion?? That’s massive. This is not the shopkeeper or pensioner. This is big bucks and that means the Greek shippers. It is a fact that the Greek government doesn’t tax the foreign earnings of the shippers. Call that a mistake, but that is the law. As a result, the shippers have held huge bucks in Switzerland. It’s not dirty money. Right or wrong, there was no legal tax on this.

The European Commission is working with Switzerland and Greece stop what it believes is an ongoing exodus of money from Greek bank accounts into Swiss and other offshore banking centers, the EU official said.

The only way to stop capital flight is to address the underlying causes of the flight. That can’t happen in Greece for years. The alternative is to trap the money, force it to go where it is at most risk. The owner of the money will have no choice. Any rights they might have to preserve their assets will be abrogated.

I’m amazed at this development. The Swiss government/banks are obligated to cooperate with EU tax authorities when there is evidence of tax fraud. But that is not what this is about. The people in Brussels and Bern know that. The fact is that the Greek tax system is so screwed up that there simply are no taxes levied on certain types of income/capital (the shippers). No doubt, some of the Greek cash that is in Switzerland is there because of tax avoidance. But the vast majority is simply safe haven money.

The word “Repatriation” sounds nice enough but really it means “Theft and expropriation”. There will be nothing voluntary about this. There will be little (if any) due process.

If this happens (the folks in Brussels are pushing hard) a very dangerous precedent will have been set. Flight capital will have been made illegal. Where might this go?

 

-It will go to Spain very quickly. After that it will go to Italy where there are truly huge fortunes outside the country. I see a development like that as being a lights out event.


 

-It will come to the USA. EU residents have tons of assets here.



-Money that is subject to forced repatriation back to countries with weak banks and bankrupt governments will seek the last remaining safe haven, gold. If governments go so far as to repatriate money, they would also not hesitate to make gold ownership illegal. That too would be a lights out event.

 

We have a situation developing where the technocrats in Brussels are trying to institute capital controls. They have put a gun to the Swiss government to achieve their objectives. They will likely succeed. The fear of broader capital controls and more repatriation will spread like wildfire. The fact is, capital flight is a very reasonable response in our current environment. Capital controls that either stop or reverse it will undermine confidence and create a panic.

Those officials in Brussels have no idea what they are unleashing.

.

 

 


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Tue, 11/22/2011 - 12:46 | Link to Comment the grateful un...
the grateful unemployed's picture

If they're going to drop a few countries then they need to print a NEW EURO, and orphan the old ones. i see Canada has a new currency, see through plastic. have thought for some time that the US should float the exchange rate between notional, electronic, or investment dollars and hard currency. is most of this money in Swiss banks notional, being 81 million i would say there is no problem following the (electronic) trail, but obviously those guys are going to get a haircut and accordingly shipping rates will go up?

Sun, 11/20/2011 - 19:25 | Link to Comment malek
malek's picture

BRUSSELS—The European Commission is helping Greece negotiate an agreement with Switzerland to repatriate as much as $81 billion

Bruce, do you have a link to the source of that message?

Thanks!

Sun, 11/20/2011 - 17:48 | Link to Comment gnomon
gnomon's picture

Deposit insurance, pensions, IRAs, mutual funds, bonds, stocks, etc.----Throw them ALL on the Bonfire of Moral Hazard.  Abandon all hope except for those who know how to pull a trigger with tactical skill so as to protect their liberty, their lives, their property, their pms.  

Sun, 11/20/2011 - 17:12 | Link to Comment digalert
digalert's picture

We've seen the swiss buckle under the anglo bankster NWO. There are no more private/hidden swiss accounts. Well maybe some private, but not to the empirical bankster governments. The carribean, where chief law enforcer, racist Eric Holder is vacationing, is still a safe haven. Perhaps his visit is to stash some cash...or threaten the region with financial destruction.

Sun, 11/20/2011 - 16:17 | Link to Comment ThirdCoastSurfer
ThirdCoastSurfer's picture

PBS has a very interesting show called "European Journal", this week's episode included a number of very relevant topics to the EU troubles including the effects of austerity in Greece.  According to the report, money and industry is moving across the border to Bulgaria, which is not in the EU and not on the EUR. 

Another article detailed the troubles in Spain where many public city worker's have not been paid in months. 

Sun, 11/20/2011 - 17:00 | Link to Comment trav7777
trav7777's picture

people who think banks are safe are fools.  There may come a time when getting capital or wealth out of anywhere will be tough.  It is times like that when the most mobile forms of wealth will be most prized.

The banks can be locked and it won't matter how much your balance is or how many eFRNs you have in there.  Unless you are important.  This is what happened in Argentina very recently.  Just lock up and it's byebye to everything.

Sun, 11/20/2011 - 13:22 | Link to Comment proLiberty
proLiberty's picture

I can see it now: capital controls will be followed by a call for the private sector to create more jobs now that their cash is hobbled as to where it can be safe.  Roosevelt did this in a slightly different way when he levied heavy taxes on retain profits of corporations.   The effect will be the same.  People who have money will rightly conclude that this means that any investment has even more risk rather than less and they will focus on protecting what remains of their wealth. 

Sun, 11/20/2011 - 12:45 | Link to Comment sschu
sschu's picture

On Capital Flight and Forced Repatriation

Nice article, timely and meaningful.

IMHO you use the wrong term, it is not repatriation.  It should be confiscation, illegally it would seem.

This is all coming to everyone soon enough.  But it is nothing new, history is filled with tyrannical governments abusing and bankrupting their citizens.  

The real question is why we let it happen and what will it take to fix it?  What are you willing to do so your children live in a different kind of place?

sschu

Sun, 11/20/2011 - 12:40 | Link to Comment Bob
Bob's picture

Speaking of Greece, there are also growing risks of living there:

http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2011/11/mark-ames-austerity-fascism-in-gr...

Sun, 11/20/2011 - 14:11 | Link to Comment nowhereman
nowhereman's picture

Unbelieveable, there is some really scarey shit going down and the media doesn't seem to have a problem with it.  Oh, yeah, that's right they're part of the problem, not the solution.

Why isn't this stuff going viral?  Maybe the blogoshere is not as influential as we would all like to think.

If the MSM ignores it, it doesn't exist, Just like Ron Paul.

Sun, 11/20/2011 - 11:28 | Link to Comment JiminGA
JiminGA's picture

I can't imagine why anyone would be surprised at this.  After all, the IRS has already done it by forcing the UBS to reveal US depositors information under threat of shutting down UBS US operations.

The European Commission's actions in intervening in Swiss private banks' businesses is just one more reason why the EU will fall apart.  Countries like Switzerland and Germany (the "haves") will no longer tolerate being raped by the "have nots".  The collapse of the EU can't happen soon enough, but it will bring on a new isolationism.

 

Sun, 11/20/2011 - 18:12 | Link to Comment ForTheWorld
ForTheWorld's picture

The IRS also taxes income earned by US citizens living and working abroad, even if they have permanently relocated to another country, do not have any dealings with the US and completely pay out any debt they have owed before leaving. The only way to avoid paying the IRS is (I believe) to become a citizen of the country you're living in. Even then I'm sure they'd find a way to get you.

Sun, 11/20/2011 - 11:27 | Link to Comment snowball777
snowball777's picture

How does one enforce involuntary repatriation when it is as easy to move people to their money as the other way around?

How many people fly their capital elsewhere on wind of their bank cooperating with these zooro goons?

A sieve comes to mind.

Sun, 11/20/2011 - 13:52 | Link to Comment JOYFUL
JOYFUL's picture

Indeed, sir...and when the mind becomes a sieve, it is all to easy to 'forget' than when TPTB wish to sunder one from one's wealth, they control the means of ingress and exgress by which the terminally hopeful supposed they would be able to 'move their money' or their persons to the place of their choosing. Most of whom were in the habit of repeating to themselves "ICHH" - it can't happen here...

Capital Controls.  A wise subject to educate oneself upon.

 

love your avatar, btw.

Sun, 11/20/2011 - 10:58 | Link to Comment ConfederateH
ConfederateH's picture

Bruce, are you sure that this repatriation stuff isn't just disinformation from Hildebrand and the ECB in order to slow down the flow of liquidity into Switzerland and to keep pressure off of the peg?

Sun, 11/20/2011 - 11:26 | Link to Comment Bruce Krasting
Bruce Krasting's picture

I think the bulk of the money would be in Euros. After that dollars. There would be some CHF, therefore if this crazy thought comes about there would be a currency impact.

I don't think this is what this is about. But it's an interesting thought. What you're talking about is a very big conspiracy. It would make an interesting movie. Possibly:

 

The Ascent of the Gnomes

Starring Sean Penn as Hildebrand

or,

 

Central Bank Revenge

Starring Anthony Hopkins as Ben Bernanke

 

Any others?

Sun, 11/20/2011 - 13:52 | Link to Comment DB Cooper
DB Cooper's picture

Thanks for the post Bruce.  How about "Money Walks and Gold Talks".

Sun, 11/20/2011 - 13:27 | Link to Comment ptoemmes
ptoemmes's picture

Peripherally related if at all, but how about based on "Thelma and Louise" name it "Angela and Christine" ?

Angela Merkel and Christine Lagarde.

Sarkozy as the J.D. character - bad casting I know - but he just has to be in the T-Bird - make it a Mercedes - at the end.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4z88U915uq8

Sun, 11/20/2011 - 12:00 | Link to Comment falak pema
falak pema's picture

THE VENGEANCE OF VENICE... STARRING SEAN CONNERY AS DOGE  ENRICO DANDOLO.

 

http://www.falakpema.com/buythebook.html

This is for openers. 

Sun, 11/20/2011 - 05:47 | Link to Comment PiranhaEatingGo...
PiranhaEatingGoldfish's picture

I just wonder and perhaps I've missed something here. If they are going to repatriate money, what about the money that belongs to people that have expatriated THEMSELVES. Will they be repatriated along with the funds? How far are we from this? Repatriate the people and you get the money IN ADDITION TO not allowing it to happen again.

 

Is something like this happening really so hard to envision?

Sun, 11/20/2011 - 08:28 | Link to Comment ISEEIT
ISEEIT's picture

 

Classes of aliens ineligible for visas or admission
Except as otherwise provided in this chapter, aliens who are inadmissible under the following paragraphs are ineligible to receive visas and ineligible to be admitted to the United States:

[...]

Any alien who is a former citizen of the United States who officially renounces United States citizenship and who is determined by the Attorney General to have renounced United States citizenship for the purpose of avoiding taxation by the United States is inadmissible.

http://188.126.66.67/article/silver-curtain

http://www.zerohedge.com/article/pensioning-roman-veterans

The two links provided ought to be viral. We (most of us) are like frogs in water that has begun to boil. I personally believe that we are truly near the point of no return. The trap was set long ago and it is about to snap shut.

 

Sun, 11/20/2011 - 03:54 | Link to Comment JOYFUL
JOYFUL's picture

The Eurozone meltdown farce is a political narrative falsely characterized as an economic one. The official media plays no other role than to channel the daily smoke and mirrors, the sleights of hand, the blaring rhetoric and silly posturings into a handy package labeled “economic crisis,” the better to make certain that no eye bespies the outlines of the slow moving, rough slouching beast, whose shadow spreads menacingly over the nation states it has long sought to devour. 

Ironically then, it’s been only been via travels with the likes of BK, the self-described wanna be journalist, over the last couple of months, that reality can be kept in plain sight. From Cyrus to Switzerland, he's brought up some of the least analyzed yet key stories, and in turn sparked some of the best and most thought-provoking exchanges in the comments section.  In this post-journalistic integrity era, when the will&ability to follow the story are almost extinct, it’s the superior sniffer on the tracker dog which keeps us in the hunt.

But the hunt for what?  For some it’s perpetrators of corporate malfeasance, or the power grab of a bureaucratic kleptocracy, or filthy rich bankers high on greed and monopolistic fantasies. For others, the traditional manifestations of geo-political power plays, the shifts on the chess board of imperial power politics, the jockeying of elites to control resources and populations to rack up more more! But, almost exclusively due to the efforts of the ‘hyperventilating fringe blogger’ (as evidenced most tidily&recently here: http://www.zerohedge.com/news/complete-and-annotated-guide-european-bank-run) the uncompromised are able to keep the outlines of that forementioned beast in sight, and, it’s to be hoped, make the best possible arrangements to survive a really bad immediate future. 

A long-planned future, involving expired due dates for the middling classes, a bleak neo-feudal one, in which the former tax farmers and usurers have risen to replace the elites to whom their forebears once bowed and scrapped, a glossy, well managed future of manipulated genes and scarified minds, in which our children will be required to pledge allegiance to monstrous indignities against all that once made us human, or be swept away as refuse.

As for the topic at hand, the only thing that surprises me is Mr Krastings’ apparent surprise that this sort of pre-ordained theft could arise in the course of the monstrous agenda which he has proven most adept at staying on the scent of….but then, that’s the role of the tracker isn’t it…follow the scent then turn things over to the hunters. Very well done indeed BK. Capital flight&forced repatriation...next stop, Capital controls(aka: your PMs, expropriated) You’re on a roll, stay on the story Bruce baby!  

Sun, 11/20/2011 - 02:02 | Link to Comment cranky-old-geezer
cranky-old-geezer's picture

 

 

This forced currency repatriation along with MFG ripping customers off for $600 million and getting away with it paints a picture of governments starting to go after customer deposits with BS "emergency" excuses.

The next logical step is going after everybody's retirement savings.

Sun, 11/20/2011 - 10:31 | Link to Comment Muddy1
Muddy1's picture

Which is why some have cashed out their retirement savings and put them to immediate use of paying off mortgages, credit cards, car loans, student loans, and other types consumer debt.  If you "own" it, it is much more difficult for a lender, or government agency, to repo it.  All loans can be payable on demand in the blink of the banksters eye.  "The borrower is slave to the lender."  Property can be seized by the government for non payment of taxes such as property taxes.  Other money is used to buy beans, bullets, and band aids, and other tangible assets such as physical precious metals.  If you hold physical it is yours, or at least it is more difficult for a government agency to seize it. 

Sun, 11/20/2011 - 01:20 | Link to Comment Ted K
Ted K's picture

This is a nice post in general, but I don't get what is the obsession with Switzerland when everyone else is talking about France and Italy.

You hiding something Brucey????

Sun, 11/20/2011 - 01:05 | Link to Comment honestann
honestann's picture

Those officials in Brussels have no idea what they are unleashing.

Sure they do.  They are unleashing "one world totalitarian government" --- in bits and pieces on an "as needed basis" when the crises they create provide "excuses".  As always, only the top 0.1% or 0.01% are safe.  They are ALWAYS at the top of the food chain.  They are self-conscious PREDATORS who rule the planet.  They must be exterminated, or mankind will be overt slaves... FOREVER.

Sun, 11/20/2011 - 09:44 | Link to Comment Bub Ba
Bub Ba's picture

Who are they?

Sun, 11/20/2011 - 11:43 | Link to Comment Rossalgondamer
Rossalgondamer's picture

Those - deciding where your money should go.

Sat, 11/19/2011 - 21:45 | Link to Comment laosuwan
laosuwan's picture

does anyone know how it was that during the usa great depression, when all the banks failed and the stock market crashed that the very wealthy were able to retain their wealth? I have never read that they held gold, certainly real estate lost its value. Was it that not all banks failed only some or that they actually held paper currency in their houses, like scrouge mcduck? I cannot find any answer to how the very welathy remained wealthy despite the bank failures and stock market crash.

Sun, 11/20/2011 - 06:03 | Link to Comment Going Loco
Going Loco's picture

1. "All the banks failed" - no they didn't. A lot failed. many survived. The wealthy who retained their wealth chose their banks carefully

2. "Real estate lost its value" - yes, and those who were heavily invested in real estate lost a lot, but the clever ones were diversified and din't lose everything

3. " I have never read that they held gold" - why would you read that? Who would know? Who would tell? It amazes me that I read people on  here bragging that they own gold. Dumb as dumb can be. You can safely assume that the ones who read these blogs who have real gold holdings (kilos, good delivery bars, and such) never breath a word. The ones who boast about their gold and silver are the ones who own a few Eagles and maybe a monster box or two, and think they are wealthy!

4. Mostly the wealthy retained large direct holdings in corporations that did not go bust. They either didn't get sucked in to the investment trusts and other leveraged investment schemes (or they got out ahead of time). Read Galbraith's book if you want to know who really got burned in '29 - it was the ones with leveraged investments that died.

It's not difficult to find out about this but you might have to read some real books, not blogs.

Sun, 11/20/2011 - 12:17 | Link to Comment laosuwan
laosuwan's picture

thanks for your insight, it makes sense. I guess if you know what is coming you can be prepared for it and the rich stayed rich because they were better informed.

Sat, 11/19/2011 - 23:24 | Link to Comment the grateful un...
the grateful unemployed's picture

anecodotally, the bank where my grandparents had their money closed. the banker visited each person or family, individually, and he informed my grandparents that their account was worth ten cents on the dollar. (there was no shareholder, depositer meeting)

FHA came in and they transferred their mortgage otherwise they would have lost their house, my grandfather lost his business.

a neighbor with a railroad pension never missed a payment, the railroads continued to do good business, my mother worked for one of them.

after listening to the stories my mother tells i have a couple of (dark) observations. everyone was not treated equally, and the losers TRUSTED the very people who screwed them. the retailers in their town remained in business.

there were a great number of people who never missed a check, and my mother babysat for them. there seemed to be no rhyme or reason for the people who lost everything and the people who kept everything. then it was the 25% vs the 75%.

there was even less transparency than there is now. and everyone trusted their bankers (just like the Waltons on TV) while today no one trusts anyone, and goddam rightfully so.

Sun, 11/20/2011 - 12:15 | Link to Comment laosuwan
laosuwan's picture

i have met people from usa who lived through that time and the stories they told were fascinating.  from what I read life in the usa right now is actually worse than that time in many ways. these are very uncertain times.

Sat, 11/19/2011 - 23:24 | Link to Comment robobbob
robobbob's picture

Are you kidding? McDuck trust fiat?!

He knows the value of personally holding PMs. No unallocated accounts, counterparty risks, or ETFs for him

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/1/18/Scroogeswim.jpg

Sun, 11/20/2011 - 12:08 | Link to Comment laosuwan
laosuwan's picture

yeah, you are right. the swimming pool was filled mostly with pm. however, you do see the odd fed reserve note here and there

http://media.photobucket.com/image/scrooge%20mcduck/GRASSY23/scrooge-mcd...

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:ScroogeWithNephews.jpg

 

 

Sat, 11/19/2011 - 21:29 | Link to Comment TJ00
TJ00's picture

The money may be there to pay for something in Switzerland, or other countries such as buying property or taxes on property. The money will not be paid as the money is no longer in the account and property may be seized or the person may face being charged and convicted in a foreign court, leading to fines and possibly even jail. This is completely insane and would mean the only way to hold foreign accounts is to have fake alternate identities for each country you want to do do businessi in.

Sat, 11/19/2011 - 20:19 | Link to Comment Bansters-in-my-...
Bansters-in-my- feces's picture

Repatriation is a pretty word,just like Patriotic.

You know....

Ask not what your country can do for you.....but what you can do for....

well you know,

SWISS RATS,now instead of swiiss cheese ,I guess.

Sat, 11/19/2011 - 19:32 | Link to Comment theprofromdover
theprofromdover's picture

Shhh, keep this to yourself.

I am sure there is an App you can use to attach graffiti onto a picture of a wall.

(unless you want to do the real thing of course)

Sat, 11/19/2011 - 19:25 | Link to Comment bobbydelgreco
bobbydelgreco's picture

this is why the dollar is still king;american political stability; that combined with keynes' liquidity trap means that ben will fail in both of his 2 mandates ; ben's double mandate: 1. devalue the dollar 2.keep his ass from going back to princeton meaning obama loses 

Sat, 11/19/2011 - 18:37 | Link to Comment Minoan
Minoan's picture

In situations like this,sentiment is above all.I live in Greece and i can assure you that the average middle class saver does not trust the banks and the Government.The rich ones moved their money from Greek banks to Swiss and Lebanese banks 2 years ago.I don't know what is going to happen,but knowing well the temperament of the Mediterranean peoples,i can tell you that if bank accounts will be frozen,the next day a major bankrun will occur in southern Europe.What will the ECB do next?We are sailing into uncharted waters...

Sat, 11/19/2011 - 18:29 | Link to Comment falak pema
falak pema's picture

Bk's article raises a flag on the issue of legal and ethical. According to Euro news buzz, the total capital flight belonging to Greek Oligarchs into tax havens is estimated at 120 to 150 B Euros. All this is big bucks from Oligarchs in sectors like Shipping, real estate etc. These guys have run successive governments making the laws from behind the curtain. They ARE Greek capitalism. And they don't pay taxes. Its NOT ethical to fleece a country as Oligarch; where you make ALL the rules both commercial and Legislative. Its called crony market-political rigged pseudo democracy. And its perfectly legal. But its a loaded deck by all measures of fair systems since governance was invented precisely in Greece and then codifed in Lex Romana.

How come two thousand years later we have such weird anti-people governance? Maybe they should ask ths scions of modernity, the US Congress. Bad call, they are just as corrupt as all the current evidence proves. Crony capitalism and people's rip-off is the name of Reaganomics and NWO statist construct. 

So the question is does a legal system that betrays all codes of good governance complying to civilized codes qualify as 'legal'? And is money flow from a corrupt country to tax haven a valid process when that corrupt situation of country is the very bastard son of that very incestuous process in the first place. 

Maybe those ill gotten gains are in itself a testimony that what is legal is not legal, as its truly rape thinly disguised into voluntary and virtuous coitus, conventional act of marriage, prima notte d'amour. 

Ex : Is the Libyan Q-daffy sovereign fund property of Ghadaffi linked US Oligarchs in off shore accounts in surrogate banks or of Libyan people? Where are those 200 B USD funds today? With GS/JPM?

Sun, 11/20/2011 - 18:14 | Link to Comment piceridu
piceridu's picture

What the fuck is "good governance"? I'll take "no governance" or "very little governance" for a thousand Alex.

Tue, 11/22/2011 - 08:50 | Link to Comment falak pema
falak pema's picture

you are your own best jail keeper; as you are a willing serf to your own prejudices. 

Good = effecient balance beween exercise of power to ensure level playing field by good laws and exercise of justice when people don't accept those rules of law through speedy actions. 

Anarchy never gives anything except rule of brute force not of justice. 

Sat, 11/19/2011 - 18:41 | Link to Comment Tao 4 the Show
Tao 4 the Show's picture

Nice post. There is a great scene in the movie Syriana where an insider from the military industrial complex conflates industry interests with national interests in a heated defense of dirty dealings. This how many within the oligarchy and periphery think: if we don't act, some other criminal will and maybe they won't be from our team. "You're either with us or against us", they like to say. Eat you gruel and shut up.

Sat, 11/19/2011 - 18:05 | Link to Comment Zero Govt
Zero Govt's picture

if the Greek (or Eurozone or US) Govt makes Gold ownership illegal the flight just goes on and on (to Silver, Platinum and even Copper)

the bankrupt drowning criminal class (politicians and bankers) are grasping at straws and will try to drag everyone solvent down with them (ie. rob you) 

see Crozine at MF Global and the deafening silence of the Democrats and GOP at this $600m-$1,500m white collar theft from one of their ex (D) politicians and ex (Goldman Sachs) banking campaign sponsors

..and it happened after the Frank-Dodd Bill.. that's really worked hasn't it? ...wonder what Barney Wanker (D) has to say about that? 

If Switzerland bends over to the EU crooks their banking industry is toast (it's already close to a shambles caving in to the fascist clowns of US regulation)

PS. How you doing on regulation Brucie Baby... still want more, more, more???

Sat, 11/19/2011 - 18:21 | Link to Comment Bananamerican
Bananamerican's picture

nothing wrong with well-written regulations, especially financial regs (& NO, i don't mean Dodd-Frank-Those are Potemkin fraud regs)...as with any laws, it's the enforcement, enforcement, enforcement, that counts...

"they would also not hesitate to make gold ownership illegal. That too would be a lights out event."

heard that.

but it also means said, "system" didn't have long left to go.

North Korea may be able to muddle along for decades under a twisted starvation/Confucion system...I seriously doubt any western "democracies" would be able to pull it off...

Sat, 11/19/2011 - 20:05 | Link to Comment Zero Govt
Zero Govt's picture

"..nothing wrong with well-written regulations.."

You may not have noticed but you've got hundreds. Warehouses full. Why are you not happy, are they not well written enough for you?

Like Brucie Baby when your idealistic Law system fails you just want "more, more, more"... I think you want more beating your heads against a brick wall... I think you want more failure ..I think you want to perpetuate stupidity (repeating the same dumb mistake that is Law)

It's not for me to call you and Brucie Baby "insane" (ie. not in touch with reality) but i'm tempted to because the reality is they DO NOT WORK

Now you're going to tell me, "but, but, but the people in charge are corrupt and are not prosecuting them". Well we agree on that score at least.

So your solution to the Law not working is to write some more law (despite thousands already being on statute) and change the muppets enforcing them right?

How long do you think your better written Laws and better people would be in tip top condition? ...I'd give you a year or two at most. Within a year the people who pull the puppet strings (bought and paid for politicians) would be corrupting your system. Within 5 years it would be back to where we are now. Totally corrupt, a tool of the parasites.

Your Legal system is not working. It has never worked in history and will never work. That's because the Law is a monopoly system a monoply of power to dispense 'justice'. It is easily corruptable as today proves beeyond a shadow of doubt and as history has demonstrated over and over. 

The Law is a sham. In almost every area it dispenses 'justice' it does so on the basis of the size of your wallet, not the justness of your case. It is precisely what it was designed for: a stick for the Parasite Club. A monopoly system designed by monopolists... and you've swallowed the sugar coating

Wakey Wakey to reality idealists

Sun, 11/20/2011 - 03:40 | Link to Comment Bananamerican
Bananamerican's picture

"you have a good line, but pessimistic..."

Sun, 11/20/2011 - 12:32 | Link to Comment Zero Govt
Zero Govt's picture

I'm neither an optimist nor pessimist ...i'm a realist (deals and learns from reality)

Not what you and Brucie Baby are, which is idealists (swallowers of ideas and idealism without checking out the results) both calling for more rules as your idealistic system continually fails

You have swallowed the liberal hed-fuk idea of 'justice'.. it's just an empty word which neither of you have thought about any deeper than a thin-base pizza

You've both also 'problem-solved' the question of providing justice and righting wrongs by making the critical mental mistake there is 'One Answer. Your one answer is 1 insitution, the Judicial System (a monopoly of authority).

Do you both knwo what monopolies deliver in reality? Inefficient, expensive, stupid and dumb shit. That is the history of all monopolies, public or private, throughout history (without exception). And the monopoly institution which is the Law and Judiciary is no different

You both have also swallowed the problem-solving of righting wrongs by handing over your responsibility to some institution which you think (lazily) will deliver it for you. You are both lazy slackers thinking someone else should do your job.. it's a sickness. You get what you deserve for shifting your responsibility lazily to someone else (fleeced) 

And if you both aren't unrealistic (living in LaLa Land insane) enough you both make a 4th mistake of believing in Rules. Both of you try giving your kids a couple of rules. They might behave. Now give them 100 to obey? You don't stand a chance of getting them to comply because now they think you're authoritarian tossers... well what do you think Lawmakers are?

So on 4 very big counts your idealistic dream of justice and wanting more rules is pure fantasy it will work.

And that's how reality proves it to be... look at Law today, check out the 4-6 years and costs and calamity of the Divorce courts for example. They've turned a dispute between husbands and wives into a complete ongoing sham. Now take any topic you care to mention and see how the Law turns everything into a shambloic, expensive, time-consuming farce

Well here's more news: it's been the same in every country for every year in history

Are you both getting in touch with reality yet??

And our western world is literally built on dozens of these unrealities and billions of people believing in idealism rather than facing reality,... in Law, education, pensions, banking etc and the biggest idealistic dream of all, Govt itself

Our world is literally based on vacuous idealism, not realism, and is borderline insane (or just very bloody stupid)

Deal with reality and human experience... not the vacuous BS ideas you were propandised to swallow unquestioningly like a zombie

The Law, like the Govt that wags it, is bollocks. Period.

Sun, 11/20/2011 - 13:49 | Link to Comment juangrande
juangrande's picture

I agree entirely with what you' ve expounded, but what is the solution? Lawlessness? Everyone for themselves? Anarchy? I'm afraid the problem is a human problem. The solution is  "spiritual". As long as collectively we are fear-based instead of compassion-based all we can do as a society is destroy each other and start over. Start down the same damn road that led us here in the first place. It is a paradigm problem rooted in separatism. Most people's only experience of the world is filtered by their conviction that they are separate and essentially on their own. Therefore, they must make sure there is enough(of whatever) for themselves. Perceived  scarcity is the motivating force behind every action and thought! 

Now imagine a world where the prevailing mindset was that of Mother Theresa(compassion). What if every thought and action was perceived thru the lense of abundance. Self-worth would be a forgotten concept and all of the vices born from it would be disappeared. In my opinion, the only way to shift to that paradigm is through spiritual work. On yourself. No bullshit ritualised, dogmatic, institutionalised religious claptrap. No our way or the hiway seperatism. Sit down, shutup and look within. Dissolve the fear-based ego. Realise you are part of everyone and everything. When you give of yourself, you actually give to yourself. 

Now, if someone has a better and easier solution, I'm all ears. 

As a disclosure, currently I'm more in the fear-based camp than the compassion-based.  "But I'm trying Ringo, I'm trying."

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