Conservatives and Liberals Agree: End the Malignant, Symbiotic Relationship Between Big Government and Big Corporations

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Thu, 10/13/2011 - 15:25 | 1770621 Zero Govt
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"Conservatives and Liberals Agree: End the Malignant, Symbiotic Relationship Between Big Government and Big Corporations"

Still trying to re-arrange the deckchairs on the Titanic GW ?

"...many pretend that liberals and conservatives are too far apart to work together, there are actually many issues on which everyone can agree."

It's sad enough that every new generation of youth think that they can make a few adjustments and Govt will change. What's even sadder is older folk like GW still keep banging their heads up against a brick wall time and again thinking (?) just a regulation here, a new rule there, will turn the rotten tide of 'democracy'

"..liberals and conservatives look at the government’s approach to the financial crisis as socialism for the rich and free market capitalism for the little guy."

Eh?!! Boy are these lib-cons confused... even running 'socialism for the rich' our corrupt Parasite Club still operate under capitalisms economic rules... that's why socialists always go bankrupt.

The real oppression of the little guy (eg. the positive contribution taxpayer and small businesses) only takes the form of robbery (Govt taxation). And it's the little guys choice to continue contributing to the socialism of propping up the bankrupt elite and keeping them rich. It's not the relationship between politician and crony businessmen that worries me, it's the idiot taxpayer continuing to fund their relationship

It's no good you speaking up for the little guys oppression when he/she is actually contributing to the systems continued existence in paying their taxes dutifully/compliantly ....the little guys continued stupour of paying taxes is the single BIGGEST part of the problem's about time the PEOPLE took responsibility for their funding of these illegal wars, these perverse bailouts, this most corrupt of all stinking systems in history, paying taxes to democratic Govt 

zero Tax = zero Govt = zero Problems

Fri, 10/14/2011 - 00:16 | 1772369 forexskin
forexskin's picture

It's no good you speaking up for the little guys oppression when he/she is actually contributing to the systems continued existence in paying their taxes dutifully

Quit paying taxes tomorrow, but fail to take away their printing presses, and nothing changes. Nice premise you have there, but it only fixes a part of the problem.

Suggest you read "The Creature from Jekyll Island"

Thu, 10/13/2011 - 15:13 | 1770614 stant
stant's picture

how many new steve jobs would we have in the future if students worked making iphones here putting themselves thru colledge

Thu, 10/13/2011 - 14:28 | 1770436 tempo
tempo's picture

While we rush to purchase another million new iphones and make a movie about the greatest American icon (Steve Jobs), reflect on the slave child labor Apple uses to make all its products. Isn't Steve Jobs just a current day slave trader.

Thu, 10/13/2011 - 15:00 | 1770551 CompassionateFascist
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Unfortunately, this R/L populist alliance against the ZOG isn't (yet) possible. For one thing (HardLeft Alex Cockburn at Counterpunch, e-mail to this writer), "the left is chicken, too afraid of the Right"); also: while the Right understands that Big Socialism and Big Capitalism are a symbiosis, you have to get rid of both, the Left perists in its delusion that you can curb crony capitalism by piling on more gov't. The twain just don't meet. Yet. Actually, I think Cockburn may be "Right": we are going to devour the Left.  

Thu, 10/13/2011 - 13:23 | 1770124 aerial view
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Nice summary GW. Capitalism can work reasonably well if it is instituted in an equal, fair, honest, transparent, responsible and accountable manner. The first step would be to remove the crooks from government, limit the powers of the FED and severely punish the law breakers in the private as well as public sector.

Sat, 10/15/2011 - 10:56 | 1776836 Pitchman
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The Fed and it's dishonest monetary system is the root of the problem.  Everything else is a symptom or an action in support of it.  Unless you eliminate the problem the symptoms and insidious actions will continue.  Wake Up.  END THE FED!!

There are two types of people.  Those who want to be free and left alone and those who want to control you.  Nothing has more weight and who would you choose?



The Kids Art Alright. But Don't Get Fooled Again

OccupyWallStreet's Young People are the tip of the spear in America's awakening. They are demonstrating what is our birth right. We The People must take up our Patriotic Duty and demand the restoration of The Rule of Law, Our Constitutional Democracy, Free Market Capitalism and an Honest Monetary System.  It is the only path to true and lasting change!... Wall Streets crimes and Washington's complicity make them legitimate targets... They are however, the minions for a larger more evil construct. That is a monetary system that demands constant growth of debt and war. And that criminal enterprise is controlled by the central banks THE FED and those behind them.

- OccupyWallStreet: The Kids Are Alright! ...but Don't Get Fooled AgainSee our respons to OccupyWallStreet's First Public Statement.


Thu, 10/13/2011 - 14:05 | 1770312 AldousHuxley
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Capitalism can work if it was fair, honest, responsible, like saying communism can work if leaders were not corrupt, power hungry, and not using idealogue for their own benefit.


power corrupts, absolute power corrupts absolutely. In communism, central planners had absolute power over state assets. In capitalism, capitalists had absolute power over private assets. Whether an "asset" is in private or public hands doesn't really matter. If one person holds all the power, they will abuse it. concentration of capital is as dangerous as concentration of state powers.

Thu, 10/13/2011 - 15:01 | 1770553 aerial view
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I guess you've never known people who are honest and ethical and will stick to their principles no matter what. Sorry to hear that. Furthermore, we are trying to improve the system as we all agree "perfection" is not possible. The changes mentioned above along with stronger penalties would go a long way towards doing that. If you still don't believe this, then please present to us your ideas of a "new system".

Thu, 10/13/2011 - 12:29 | 1769948 lasvegaspersona
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The poor Fed is just doing what it must to continue its preparations for the end of the dollar. It must and will fight it to the end but also must prepare for that morning when we wake to that new world when the last person on earth takes the last dollar out of their wallet and replaces it with....

This is heresey here at ZH but consider if it was the Amero. A nice fiat that could be treated like all other fiats, inflated to the end again. Along side would be gold, not part of any money system but available in all money systems of free countries. If the folks do not like their current fiat they switch to gold, forcing the fiat to behave if only a little. By this time however all paper gold assets have been seen to be the frauds they are and all gold trades must be physical. It has a much higher price and value. Oil trades in any currency in which gold is guaranteed.

Fiat for the soft money/ debtors, gold for the hardmoney/ savers and each of us is at some time a debtor and a saver. Welcome to the future.

Thu, 10/13/2011 - 12:26 | 1769930 bullsonparade
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hopefully we are witnessing the beginning of the end to this many headed beast. the markets are obviously telling the government and big banks that proping up their corrupt business' with artificial revenue gains and securities will not last. the people now publicly do not support any authority who attempt to keep this up and pathetically use the blame game. 

but whats scary, as many users have pointed out, that these people will be so desperate to keep their game going they will attempt to remove any trace of democracy from the normal system. tighten your belts, its going to get real rough from here

Thu, 10/13/2011 - 11:48 | 1769767 stiler
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Thu, 10/13/2011 - 11:35 | 1769701 Mercury
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If the government were a lot smaller and weaker there wouldn't be much for the corporations to buy.

Thu, 10/13/2011 - 11:22 | 1769631 PulauHantu29
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Rate on 30-year fixed mortgage Soar to 4.12%


Oh, oh.....

Thu, 10/13/2011 - 13:04 | 1770072 mayhem_korner
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Who's lending?  At any rate?  I thought the banks were all focused on rounding up the in-default mortage holders...

Thu, 10/13/2011 - 11:12 | 1769555 paintman
paintman's picture

Are "actions" property?

Thu, 10/13/2011 - 08:05 | 1768871 maddogs
maddogs's picture

Like the seperation of church and state, peolple need to recognize, there is a need for sepration needed between capitol and state. Many argue the state needs some morality/church, but the basic seperation exists. this is not the case of the holy church of Capitol/ism. The state is now thought of by Insiders as a money machine. People do come to the State for advancing their Ideals of,or understanding of religion or individual faith. This must become the situation for Capitolism also. The premis that the State can guarentee an advantage in a capitol investment must stop.

The reliance on State sponsered schemes for capitolism seems to be the only way any buisness exists in America. This ideal of 'democracy=capitolism=free interprise is a fallacy when the State Tax and Central Bank is the source for all capitol that buisness depends on.

There is no seperation of Capitol from the U.S. State, there is no seperation of the State-Three parts,Federal Bank,private banks. Hanging signs on different doors, appointing new people, listening to speachs, arguements, new billws/regs.... nothing will change the fact that Central State/Federal Govt as become what all buisness depends on... or is eliminated by. 

When the Fed Govt controls and directs capitol, it no longer is Capitolism, nor Democracy, nor free trade. The closest appoximation is Corpratism, and like Corporate Charters/ rights as theyexist today, their are few rights to the commoners and Insiders are the Benificiaries.

The Central/Federal Govt. has taken all rightsand chitcanned them to be subject to Insiders Wishes/profits.

America would collapse tomarro without the handouts from the Fedaral reserve. And the Insiders.. love it.

Thu, 10/13/2011 - 10:10 | 1769265 AnAnonymous
AnAnonymous's picture

It can but be a short term plan.

Okay, separating the State from the Capitol will provide work to build a new capitol somewhere else than Capitol hill.

But once it is done, it will likely be similar, just a new place with a different name and it wont employ that much people.

Thu, 10/13/2011 - 07:24 | 1768787 MFL8240
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Thu, 10/13/2011 - 05:29 | 1768730 gasmiinder
gasmiinder's picture

Well George we agree.  Having moneyed interests control the economy through the power of the police state is a BAD idea. I in fact don't think the current "liberal vs conservative" meme is anything more than a distraction that serves the interest of the powerful.  The only real argument is central control or individual control (no matter what you call it - political law vs natural law, socialism/fascism/crony cap vs free market, or any of a dozen other formulations).

But here is where we diverge: how STUPID do you have to be to believe the way to address a corrupt system is to MAKE IT MORE POWERFUL?  That is the current "progressive" agenda - criticize the system and fix it by giving it more power and more money.  Never in the history of mankind has centralized power failed to become corrupted by the nomenkaltura.  When either "liberals" or "conservatives" stop talking about fixing the problem with federal programs then this bullsit "we all agree at heart" might have some meaning.

Thu, 10/13/2011 - 14:51 | 1770522 LeBalance
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fix leak by making it larger, fix debt by borrowing more, fix government by making it larger.

Thu, 10/13/2011 - 03:29 | 1768643 Shylockracy
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“The technique of infamy is to invent two lies, then get people arguing heatedly over which one of them is true.” Ezra Pound
Thu, 10/13/2011 - 04:58 | 1768699 falak pema
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The technique of regulatory capture is to invent a third lie, the impartial regulator, whose job is to arbitrate between the two factions defending the two lies, all in the name of 'general good', whose hidden agenda is to occupy the terrain and ensure that precisely the opposite really occurs. Now the system is truly functional in its hegemonical dysfunctionality for the benefit of 'the happy few', international Oligarchs. 

We are there in the real corrupted power world, behind the smoke screened virtual democratic, regulated world, of Congress and WS shenanigans; with regulators of bourses who allow direct opaque peer-to-peer dealings by PDs in 'dark pools', using HFT techniques massively. So called notational regulators who have looked the other way for decades, so called Congresional committees who have rubber stamped rampant fraud. And this whole gravy train is now totally out of control in the whole western world. There ain't no pilot in this plane...Happy landings, in Greece as elsewhere.

So if the Conservatives and Liberals agree to this symbiosis in Congress, they will execute as first act of true democracy that all these shills on Capitol Hill commit collective 'HAra Kiri' and leave the slate clean to a new generation. That would be the first signs of true honest governance.

Thu, 10/13/2011 - 08:36 | 1768921 Raging Debate
Raging Debate's picture

I think your real close Falak. In New Hampshire, their was zero debate or notice pensions were cut by 50%. The media lockdown in this State is so tight, it wasn't even reported. I lived in this police state until 2004 and recently moved my business out. Instead of an income tax in New Hampshire they decided on using Family Law and police fines as indirect tax vehicle. The judges rule the State. In my last case I was in (fought the bastards to slow them down for a decade) they changed the court date with no notice and told me I defaulted.

Any person with a penis was the target as it was the radical feminists that ran for office in MA in the early 90's, was rejected and came to New Hampshire. Fuel assistance is being cut 50% too. NH is a Petri dish. It was worse than the Soviets.

Thu, 10/13/2011 - 11:34 | 1769688 Lednbrass
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Sounds like now its become the "Try to live free and you die" state, but I would expect this in the northeast.  They should put that on their license plates.

Thu, 10/13/2011 - 05:12 | 1768714 Shylockracy
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Regulatory capture is a logical impossibility in a plutocracy. Since its birth in the bloodbaths of the French revolution, "democracy",  and later its retarded cousin "comunism",  has been the political weapon of the international plutocracy. Under the spell of "democracy" and "comunism" the masses vote for their own enslavement, commit atrocities with a clear conscience and sing on their way to the slaughterhouse. It is the perfect system of domination: the herd never notices the concentration camp behind the Disneyworld façade.

Thu, 10/13/2011 - 10:02 | 1769215 falak pema
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You may think its a logical impossibility, but in the real world, in democratically elected and republican ruled political systems; I leave aside your inconsequential rant on democracy being the retarded cousin of totlitarian communism; they require that justice "appears to be done". That is where the regulatory capture trick comes in useful as Machiavellian ploy, to create an aditional layer to the social-legislative cake, icing that is anything BUT neutral. Its a fact of life, time and time again. If Wikipedia devotes a whole section to it, this means that its reality can no longer be contested based on hard facts, not theoretical considerations.

Thu, 10/13/2011 - 02:31 | 1768603 TheMerryPrankster
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Roubini's come out with a plan to end the new great depression:


Thu, 10/13/2011 - 00:59 | 1768492 The Deleuzian
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I wish/hope/pray GW, that would be nice...The hurdles to this trip around the track will leave many twisted ankles and many hurt feelings...Seems emotion trumps logic concerning politics...Too many vested interests and way too much $ involved...Nothing separates people more viciously than $................

Thu, 10/13/2011 - 00:56 | 1768485 blindman
blindman's picture

ok, so we have to realize that to self identify
as left or right is to self identify as a slave.
and a pretty fucking dim one at that. the term
fodder comes to mind.

Thu, 10/13/2011 - 02:15 | 1768421 Outlaw Of The W...
Outlaw Of The Wasteland's picture


communist sympathizer/operative

trying desperately to join the Tea Party with the flea party (blacks, jews, homos, illegals, communists, muslims, baby killers).

An amalgam of slobs bound together by nothing other than malevolent envy and hatred of Natural Law.

take a hike

Thu, 10/13/2011 - 14:14 | 1770365 Lord Koos
Lord Koos's picture

Pond scum

Thu, 10/13/2011 - 14:11 | 1770351 frobn
frobn's picture

You tell them wait, I am one of those malevolent envy homos that supports OWS and hates natural law. BTW who is Natual Law?

Thu, 10/13/2011 - 13:38 | 1770167 chunga
chunga's picture

Somebody ban this despicable maggot. You're deserving of much worse than down arrows.

Thu, 10/13/2011 - 12:18 | 1769894 LawsofPhysics
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I have no doubt that Natural Law wins in the end, eventually.  I also know several sheeple who, when faced with true liberty the responsibility for insuring their own well-being, especially in the in the chaos that is to come, would choose to walk into the gas chamber instead of pull the trigger.  I guess it all depends how anyone thinks they will be judged or if that even matters to them.

Thu, 10/13/2011 - 03:59 | 1768664 buyingsterling
buyingsterling's picture

Ugly little baby picture guy,

(can't read full name)

You should stay with your regular nazi schtick, it's way funnier. This one was good for some giggles, but nothing like the ones where you're goose-stepping.

Thu, 10/13/2011 - 10:43 | 1769439 Outlaw Of The W...
Outlaw Of The Wasteland's picture

ah yes.  The Nazis.  The gift that never stops giving.

No business like shoah business, hey jew?

Thu, 10/13/2011 - 14:04 | 1770310 EINSILVERGUY

Du bist ein scheisskop

Thu, 10/13/2011 - 11:43 | 1769748 buyingsterling
buyingsterling's picture

I'm as Jewish as you are.

Thu, 10/13/2011 - 00:14 | 1768407 AnAnonymous
AnAnonymous's picture

In a property rights system, one can not apply simple causality like the polluter has to pay.

Causality is mediated by property rights.

Food poisoning:

A food provider has a right to poison one's own food.

When sold, people are not poisoned by the food provider's food since property is a zero sum game. The food provide no longer owns the food. People are poisoned by their own food.

Half serious free marketeers do acknowledge that fact and come with the idea that poisoning food will be bad for business. Putting out of business food providers who poison their food before selling it.

Yet eating is an uncompromized human need. And there can be a demand for poisoning people. It is clear that US citizens would see favourably shipping poisoned food to certain places in the world.

And even without that, as the characterization of competition yielded out, creating your own concurrence is good for business.

All food providers share the common interest of poisoning certain food articles, adverstize it, not poison their other food articles and advertize it.

US citizenism is such a failure in what it does not foster clear thinking but always muddy thinking (or it might be a success)

Still funny how some US citizens love to claim that a free market that respect property rights would deal with pollution other than by making pollution a valorizing selling factor or that corporations infringe on property rights.

Monsanto when they say that farmers have to pay them when the farmers'seeds are contaminated by Monsanto's seeds apply perfectly property rights principles.
US citizens who claim that Monsanto has to be held responsible for the contamination, certainly not.

Thu, 10/13/2011 - 07:10 | 1768778 byteshredder
byteshredder's picture

AnAnomous said: "Monsanto when they say that farmers have to pay them when the farmers'seeds are contaminated by Monsanto's seeds apply perfectly property rights principles."

So when my property runs you down in the middle of the street, I can claim damages that you inflicted upon my property?


Thu, 10/13/2011 - 10:19 | 1769313 AnAnonymous
AnAnonymous's picture

It is funny how US citizens like to distort in an attempt of avoidance.

Cool. How? Please explain how property being a zero sum game is played in the example you called up.

From the very fact that pollution is not to be settled down the way US citizens claim it should be once mediated by property rights, they come up with unplausible cases.

My examples were explained, how the zero sum game part comes in.

Please explain yours. Lets have a bit of fun.

Once again, US citizens can not stand by their own actions. You want to put words into my mouth? Well, I put them back to where they belong, your mouth.

So please explain. Please enlighten people with how US citizens play the zero sum feature of property to achieve your result.

Thu, 10/13/2011 - 02:07 | 1768585 HarryHaller
HarryHaller's picture

So when my fist hits your face are you liable for the damage to my knuckles for not getting the fuck out of the way? You shouldda seen it comin'...

Thu, 10/13/2011 - 05:01 | 1768706 AnAnonymous
AnAnonymous's picture

I saw it coming.

US citizens love to sidetrack. So when the sun light hit your skin, the Sun is liable for the damage done to your skin...

Always the same with US citizens, their nature is eternal. They are preaching for a failing system and when the failure of their system hits them, they scream for others to be pushed under the train instead of themselves.

So yes, I saw it coming. Somehow, US citizens think they are innovative when they have not been able to innovate on their propaganda that has been debunked decades ago.

Thu, 10/13/2011 - 00:43 | 1768457 blindman
blindman's picture

@"Monsanto when they say that farmers have to pay them when the farmers'seeds are contaminated by Monsanto's seeds apply perfectly property rights principles.
US citizens who claim that Monsanto has to be held responsible for the contamination, certainly not."
incorrect. monsanto is claiming property rights on a highly
probable mutation. this is not property but a characteristic
of property. it would be like me claiming that your home is
my property because the temperature of the dwelling is above
70 degrees and i can pay a judge to agree with me that dwellings
over 70 degrees belong to me. here the corporate judicial system
is merely pushing the populations to homicide in self defense.
it is not a question of property rights. where there is no
ethics or morality there are no rights. period. imo

Thu, 10/13/2011 - 01:31 | 1768542 AnAnonymous
AnAnonymous's picture

How is it not property?

Property is a zero sum game.

Either this mutation is owned or it is not.

If Monsanto owns the mutation, it is owned by Monsanto.

If it appears elsewhere, people have to explain how they end with having it.

US citizens are funny, they might not even realize how cheap their propaganda is.

Their tricks are known and were debunked ages ago.

Here's the trick: unintended consequence against intended consequence.

I chose on purpose only intended consequences examples, examples showing that even with intent, property rights have consequences.

And US citizens come with unintended consequences which actually strengthen the segmentation of causality.

In a property rights system, ethics and morality have to be mediated by property rights. Morality and ethics do not exist outside the property rights system, they exist within it.

It is not the corporate judicial system that is pushing people to homicide in self defense.

Corporations apply property rights principles perfectly. You dont. You exclude them when you dont want to deal with them.

Thu, 10/13/2011 - 14:10 | 1770347 Lord Koos
Lord Koos's picture

After reading three of your stupid posts it's clear how badly you need to take a class in logical thinking. 

Thu, 10/13/2011 - 02:34 | 1768606 ZackLo
ZackLo's picture

You Sir are a trolling Clown...Private property and even relatively free markets have shown to raise the standard of living of the populace WAY beyond anything comprehensible to the human race 100 years ago...I will gladly take private property and capitalism over tragedy of the commons and communism/fascism (they are really the same aren't they?)

and as far as your hate for america goes...Fuck off we have you electricity,cars planes, the lightbulb....and trillions of other things that make your life better then it otherwise would be...I don't give a fuck where you live..sure we got some problems But we will work them up as we always have...just like you should do Go back to your country rally the troops and lobby for a communist utopia...otherwise Piss off I would rather not have to see you fallacious arguements every 5 fucking comments don't like it? WELL HERE IS A SONG FOR YOUR PUNK ASS BITCH!

turn your speakers up!

Thu, 10/13/2011 - 04:56 | 1768703 AnAnonymous
AnAnonymous's picture

Private property and even relatively free markets have shown to raise the standard of living of the populace WAY beyond anything comprehensible to the human race 100 years ago...


Really? More fabled past from US citizens.

US citizens performed the biggest land theft in human history and they still want to sell the idea that their booming is the consequence of private property respect.

The US has something more than any other and that is cheap propaganda.

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